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In the Name of God بسم الله
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~RuQaYaH~

Split Bills

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That's a pretty neat idea but would require a calculator if the matrix size is large enough (most of the matrix would be filled with zeros anyhow).

When we go out its usually one person paying the complete bill and then collecting the money from each individual based on the items ordered. The tip is split equally. It takes 3-5 minutes if the group consists of 5-7 people. Might take a bit more time if the group size increases substantially.

We actually used Mathematica for the matrix calculations; once the computations were completed the Mathematica .nb file would be e-mailed to all the debtors. And yes, you're right, the matrix was mostly filled with zeroes.

Edited by sherwin

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^Yeah, that's what we do aswell.....or atleast what I try to push for :squeez:. It's the fairest way.

My apologies, I'm not sure what happened in pasting the link. The URL should be this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diner's_dilemma

I will edit my above post. Enjoy... if you like math...

EDIT: Seems like older posts can't be edited.

haha I'm not particularly fond of maths, but that was interesting!

Um, I wonder if you misunderstood my post.

I'm not sure, I'm sorry if I did. Anywayz, even though I quoted you I wasn't trying to attack you.....I was speaking more generally and just expressing my frustration with this issue.

I meant that there are people who make less, and if you insist on taking them out for a dinner, then splitting bills (thus paying equally & provide them a chance to order more than a starter) is a good thing.

That's true but the problem is that they will have to pay an amount that is equal to what everyone else is paying, which they can't afford and which is why they were ordering the starter to begin with. And then there are others who just simply aren't that hungry and don't want to order much (and so they shouldn't have to pay an amount equal to everyone else).

I care what they order, I don't know about others but whoever I've been out with, there's this awkward 'tension' when a person is playing with a cherrytomato on their plate for 2 hours..

lol I don't know it doesn't really bother me, I've even been out to dinner with people who order nothing coz they say they've already eaten/aren't hungry. I know some people would say why would someone already eat if they're going out to dinner....like in my culture people eat hardly anything the whole day if they know they are going to a wedding/someones house later where they get to eat a wide range of food for free or make sure they're very hungry before going to a restaurant :rolleyes: .....not everyone does that though lol. And for alot of people, going out to dinner is more about the socialing than about the eating.....so sometimes circumstances arise where you eat before going to a restaurant or you just don't have much of an appetite but you still want to go out for dinner. It will only be awkward if they let on that it's coz they can't afford it.

I've been the eating police for the past 5 years. I also calculate carbs, kcals, fat, protein etc :)

lol well be the eating police for yourself by all means, but when it comes to other people - eat and let eat!

It was out of consideration and fairness that one who can afford two meals, offers to pay for one who cant, so that the latter eats more than a salad. It is indeed about fairness (and possibly not losing face infront of a large crowd)

That's really sweet and considerate.....but not sure what that has to do with split bills.

I said that choosing your restaurant buddies is ok based on their income so that you don't put your friends in an awkward position where they either spend more than they have, or they sit there with that damn cherrytomato.

Likewise, you choose friends when you go for a kebab down the street, it doesn't suit everybody to go to a 'street kitchen' as we call it. Usually those places that sell those donerkebabs. (look tiny bit better than the hotdog stands in the US)

:lol:

Oh ok.....yeah that's true, the restaurant should try to suit everyone. But that doesn't always work out and still, you can never really know a persons financial circumstances and sometimes a person will be too embarassed to object to a place that's agreed on by everyone else. And some people just won't be hungry at the time. And sometimes the prices/menu in a restaurant can have a huge variance in terms of price so it's not fair to split the bill. So bottom line is, split bills are evil! :shaytan:

Edited by ~RuQaYaH~

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We shouldn't be too particular about this one way or the other. Just do whatever seems comfortable at any given time. Usually if we have cash on hand, all of us just contribute equal amounts of cash to one person and he pays it to the cashier. Most of the time however we have no cash on hand and just debit, so we decide to split it. We never look at what each person has eaten or ordered etc, different people eat different amounts at different places at different times and in the end usually it balances out. If there is 20 of us, obviously we will not make 20 different payments. We don't need restaurants prohibiting splitting, just have a quick consensus and do whats reasonable.

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I'm not sure, I'm sorry if I did. Anywayz, even though I quoted you I wasn't trying to attack you.....I was speaking more generally and just expressing my frustration with this issue.

Yeh, no worries. I feel I got some apologizing to do aswell, it was 6am & I had an exam which I hadn't studied for. like AT ALL. I didn't even have the subject at school lol but it went well alhamdulilla :!!!:

That's true but the problem is that they will have to pay an amount that is equal to what everyone else is paying, which they can't afford and which is why they were ordering the starter to begin with. And then there are others who just simply aren't that hungry and don't want to order much (and so they shouldn't have to pay an amount equal to everyone else).

I thought everyone agreed that if these people know we will split bills then they will order more. That's what I was going by. Because someone is willing to pay say..40 bucks for a meal but not 80..and if we split bills then maybe their share would come 40 while if they ordered it alone it would be a grand total of 80, get me?

lol I don't know it doesn't really bother me, I've even been out to dinner with people who order nothing coz they say they've already eaten/aren't hungry. I know some people would say why would someone already eat if they're going out to dinner....like in my culture people eat hardly anything the whole day if they know they are going to a wedding/someones house later where they get to eat a wide range of food for free or make sure they're very hungry before going to a restaurant :rolleyes: .....not everyone does that though lol. And for alot of people, going out to dinner is more about the socialing than about the eating.....so sometimes circumstances arise where you eat before going to a restaurant or you just don't have much of an appetite but you still want to go out for dinner. It will only be awkward if they let on that it's coz they can't afford it.

Um, yeh...there's a tiny chance a person who knows they will go out to dinner will still eat at home because the going out is for socialising not eating..but I don't think I buy it much. It just decency and manners that a person who goes with everyone else orders a decent meal. Again, it's abit weird that everyone's sitting there with their plates and this person is not. I don't know.

Personally I don't like it.

Lol @ culture. I think most eastern cultures are like that lol except within my family its weird, we're told to eat less than we normally would cause otherwise people will think we haven't been fed for 8 days.

lol well be the eating police for yourself by all means, but when it comes to other people - eat and let eat!

I do now, but before, I was a maniac. (vegan aswell) lol so I really didn't let people eat lol.

It'd take me the entire lunhcbreak to figure out what to eat. Then id have to sneak in food into class cause well...i hadn't eaten during the break. lol

good ol' days

That's really sweet and considerate.....but not sure what that has to do with split bills.

Well, it has a ton to do with it, lol. I was saying that by offering to split bills, you are kind of offering to pay for their food aswell (given that they order more knowing that you split bills. and otherwise would only order a starter)

Oh ok.....yeah that's true, the restaurant should try to suit everyone. But that doesn't always work out and still, you can never really know a persons financial circumstances and sometimes a person will be too embarassed to object to a place that's agreed on by everyone else. And some people just won't be hungry at the time. And sometimes the prices/menu in a restaurant can have a huge variance in terms of price so it's not fair to split the bill. So bottom line is, split bills are evil! :shaytan:

Lol, I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I think all problems mentioned above will disappear if you just agree to share bills. If you tell someone upfront that you will split bills, they will order more.

This means that they eat a meal which they otherwise would not be able to afford, and they will be hungry at the time and they don't have to care about the prices/menu in the restaurant because heyyy, we're splitting the damn bill!!!

Anyway to each their own but I like splitting the bill/paying for friends who I know wouldn't be able to afford a decent meal otherwise.

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but if one of the people who ordered something really small had spoken out against it then they would have looked cheap.

It looks cheap to those who have ordered the whole menu because in their heads they have enough Banni Ummayah tendancys going on. I'm sorry if your Iraqi face has sat there ordered 4 sheeshas and 3 large pots of mint tea whilst all I had was a can of Pepsi and 2 puffs from your sheesha ...I am not contributing 20 pounds whilst you sit there and look at me as if I have just insulted your mother when the man is askin for an extra £60 an you can't cough up ................ That's why if you do go out to dinner...then only go out with people who you would love to pay for yourself. I don't do that whole bill splitting thing anyways...why would I have dinner with a bunch of stingy wastemans

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It looks cheap to those who have ordered the whole menu because in their heads they have enough Banni Ummayah tendancys going on. I'm sorry if your Iraqi face has sat there ordered 4 sheeshas and 3 large pots of mint tea whilst all I had was a can of Pepsi and 2 puffs from your sheesha ...I am not contributing 20 pounds whilst you sit there and look at me as if I have just insulted your mother when the man is askin for an extra £60 an you can't cough up ................ That's why if you do go out to dinner...then only go out with people who you would love to pay for yourself. I don't do that whole bill splitting thing anyways...why would I have dinner with a bunch of stingy wastemans

LOLOLOL.....2 puffs of sheesha!!!!!!! come on Solid, sometimes it's good to spend on friends, it's the time spent not the $$ geesh 2 puffs of sheesha

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Yeh, no worries. I feel I got some apologizing to do aswell, it was 6am & I had an exam which I hadn't studied for. like AT ALL. I didn't even have the subject at school lol but it went well alhamdulilla :!!!:

Not your fault sis, I sometimes don't take the time out to express myself properly/avoid misunderstandings which I really should do! Glad to hear you went well :)

I thought everyone agreed that if these people know we will split bills then they will order more. That's what I was going by. Because someone is willing to pay say..40 bucks for a meal but not 80..and if we split bills then maybe their share would come 40 while if they ordered it alone it would be a grand total of 80, get me?

Yeah I get you, but it depends on how much people can afford or what they want to order. I'm talking about cases where for example a person can't afford to pay more than say $10 (or doesn't want to order anything beyond $10) and will have to pay $40 because that is the average price of the meals of everyone who ate. If they order more then yes they will get to eat more but they will also have to fork out another $30.

Um, yeh...there's a tiny chance a person who knows they will go out to dinner will still eat at home because the going out is for socialising not eating..but I don't think I buy it much. It just decency and manners that a person who goes with everyone else orders a decent meal. Again, it's abit weird that everyone's sitting there with their plates and this person is not. I don't know.

Personally I don't like it.

Ah well, to each her own

Lol @ culture. I think most eastern cultures are like that lol except within my family its weird, we're told to eat less than we normally would cause otherwise people will think we haven't been fed for 8 days.

lol yeah that's true, we're told not too eat too fast so as not to look like that but then also told to eat alot

I do now, but before, I was a maniac. (vegan aswell) lol so I really didn't let people eat lol.

It'd take me the entire lunhcbreak to figure out what to eat. Then id have to sneak in food into class cause well...i hadn't eaten during the break. lol

good ol' days

Vegan, eh? Atleast you have alot of discipline :).

Well, it has a ton to do with it, lol. I was saying that by offering to split bills, you are kind of offering to pay for their food aswell (given that they order more knowing that you split bills. and otherwise would only order a starter)

Lol, I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I think all problems mentioned above will disappear if you just agree to share bills. If you tell someone upfront that you will split bills, they will order more.

This means that they eat a meal which they otherwise would not be able to afford, and they will be hungry at the time and they don't have to care about the prices/menu in the restaurant because heyyy, we're splitting the damn bill!!! Anyway to each their own but I like splitting the bill/paying for friends who I know wouldn't be able to afford a decent meal otherwise.

Oh ok yeah I get what you mean. But the problems do still remain because like I said above, the person will probably get to eat more but they may not be able to afford the average meal price which they will have to fork out at the end. Or they may not want to eat more and so justifiably don't want to pay more than what they want to eat. It's nice to pay for friends who you know can't otherwise afford a decent meal, but the nicest thing to do would be to just shout them rather than make them pay the average meal price when they can't afford even that much.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Anyway, at the least just please everyone make sure you let everyone know upfront how the bill will be paid for if you're planning on going down the evil split bill path!

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I have nice considerate friends who take into account if someone hasn't eaten much.

My meal usually costs less than most people's since i dont really eat meat/chicken and end up with a vegetarian dish, but i still just split it because at the end of the day its not much of a difference. But there are days when you go out and just dont feel hungry and end up ordering a $10 soup while everyone else orders a meaty $30 dish. Its only fair you dont pay the same amount, but of course you pretend to be nice and offer to pay the same. But really, you shouldnt.

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Lol, yehh.. um, 40-50 USD is usually a pizza, drink & icecream here.. :!!!:

The prices are pretty insane (200USD for a sushi meal for two (3 courses & drinks)) but our wages make up for it, alhamdulillah

WHOA. Remind me never to eat out if I ever visit Norway.

When my friends spend over $15 on a main course and over $25 on a full meal, I give them a hard time about wasting money =p

I have a few friends who spend $15 on sushi and I'm like wow how ridiculous is it to pay that much for such a tiny amount of uncooked fish. :huh:

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