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In the Name of God بسم الله

Saying Ali Madad

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You call upon him and he will hear and answer?

Astaghfirallah, sounds like shirk to me...

How can you call upon anyone besides Allah??

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OH ALI, OH MASTER OF MY SOUL AND CURER OF ANY PROBLEM, OF HE WHO OWNS AND CONTROLS ALL THE ATOMS IN THE UNIVERSE, OF HE WHOM ALL THINGS OF ALL TIMES ARE KNOWN, OH HE WHO WILL BE THE JUDGE ON JUDGEMENT DAY, HEAR MY CALLS AND ANSWER ME, OH ALI! HELP ME!

see? simple.

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OH ALI, OH MASTER OF MY SOUL AND CURER OF ANY PROBLEM, OF HE WHO OWNS AND CONTROLS ALL THE ATOMS IN THE UNIVERSE, OF HE WHOM ALL THINGS OF ALL TIMES ARE KNOWN, OH HE WHO WILL BE THE JUDGE ON JUDGEMENT DAY, HEAR MY CALLS AND ANSWER ME, OH ALI! HELP ME!

see? simple.

:(

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OH ALI, OH MASTER OF MY SOUL AND CURER OF ANY PROBLEM, OF HE WHO OWNS AND CONTROLS ALL THE ATOMS IN THE UNIVERSE, OF HE WHOM ALL THINGS OF ALL TIMES ARE KNOWN, OH HE WHO WILL BE THE JUDGE ON JUDGEMENT DAY, HEAR MY CALLS AND ANSWER ME, OH ALI! HELP ME!

see? simple.

Istaghfarallah x infinity

Your God is clearly Ali

Ya Allah save us from the fire you made for men and stones, disassociate us from the people who took your slaves as gods besides you under the blessed name of Islam, ya Allah destroy the people who have lost trust in you, ya Allah MASTER OF MY SOUL AND CURER OF ANY PROBLEM, OF HE WHO OWNS AND CONTROLS ALL THE ATOMS IN THE UNIVERSE, OF HE WHOM ALL THINGS OF ALL TIMES ARE KNOWN, OH HE WHO WILL BE THE JUDGE ON JUDGEMENT DAY, HEAR MY CALLS AND ANSWER ME, OH Allah! HELP ME! Save me from theses devilish beliefs and the devils dressed as men of knowledge. Oh Allah destroy the polytheists and let their tongues testify against the shirk they have done. Oh Allah even so-called Muslims and lovers of ahlul bayt have insulted your religion and your divine rights by their actions and words. Oh Allah the same people who claim to remember ashura have insulted the sacrifice of Hussein for monotheism. Ya Allah those who claim to be defenders of Fatima have returned to the days of jahaliya. Oh Allah from among those who say shahada many have forgotten your Quran and have insulted your Prophet.

Ya Allah destroy theses people.

Edited by fallah
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OH ALI, OH MASTER OF MY SOUL AND CURER OF ANY PROBLEM, OF HE WHO OWNS AND CONTROLS ALL THE ATOMS IN THE UNIVERSE, OF HE WHOM ALL THINGS OF ALL TIMES ARE KNOWN, OH HE WHO WILL BE THE JUDGE ON JUDGEMENT DAY, HEAR MY CALLS AND ANSWER ME, OH ALI! HELP ME!

see? simple.

Nahjul Balaga; saying 116

"Two kinds of people will be damned on my account. Those who form exaggerated opinions about me, and those who under-estimate me because they hate me."

These are quite strong words from Imam Ali (as). How do you interpret them?

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even if not a single person from adam (pbuh) till qiyaamat said it, why would that stop ME saying it? maula ali is the wali of this earth, the mushkil kusha, all atoms in creation submit to him, he existed as noor before adam, he is the separator of heaven and hell on judgement day, he is the face of Allah, the tongue of Allah, the eyes of Allah, a shaheed, the ameer of the momineen.......it is my aqeeda that if i call him, he will hear and answer.

I disagree with you brother.

[35:14] Åä ÊÏÚæåã áÇ íÓãÚæÇ ÏÚÇÁßã æáæ ÓãÚæÇ ãÇ ÇÓÊÌÇÈæÇ áßã æíæã ÇáÞíÇãÉ íßÝÑæä ÈÔÑßßã

"If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer you. On the Day of Judgment they will reject your Shirk"

Nahj Al-Balaghah Letter 31

"Realize this Truth, my Son, that the Lord who owns and holds the treasures of Paradise and the earth has given you permission for Duaa and He has Promised to Grant your Prayers."

"Reserve your prayers, your requests, your solicitations, your supplications, and your entreaties to Him and Him Alone (Allah)"

"Your invocations should be reserved for Him only (Allah)"

"Your requests and solicitations should be alone to Him (Allah)"

"He Commanded you to Ask Him (Allah) to give You"

"He has not appointed Anyone to Prevent your Prayers(Duaa) reaching Him (Allah)"

"Nor did he make you need anybody to intercede before Him(Allah) on your behalf."

Anyways, my point was that i think this is an innovation (bida)..

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I disagree with you brother.

Anyways, my point was that i think this is an innovation (bida)..

this isn't even bid3a, it's shirk in it's most obvious form. I can't believe people like this call themselves muslims.

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this isn't even bid3a, it's shirk in it's most obvious form. I can't believe people like this call themselves muslims.

Like i said, i couldn't find Ya Ali Madad in any hadith of al kafi, nahjul balagha,etc.. so why are we practicing something which the Imams(as) never preached?? It is indeed an obvious form of shirk..

Edited by Shia't
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Like i said, i couldn't find Ya Ali Madad in any hadith of al kafi, nahjul balagha,etc.. so why are we practicing something which the Imams(as) never preached?? It is indeed an obvious form of shirk..

Because most people follow culture and associate it with religion. They also follow liars who speak under the name of religion.

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The Prophet said Ya Ali (on the day of Khayber) amongst other times. All 14 of the ma'soomeen are alive, and they can hear. Hence we continue to call out Ya Ali and will do so until the day of Judgement. Munkireen and those daeef in aqeedah (i.e. they see shirk in everything) need not apply.

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The Prophet said Ya Ali (on the day of Khayber) amongst other times. All 14 of the ma'soomeen are alive, and they can hear. Hence we continue to call out Ya Ali and will do so until the day of Judgement. Munkireen and those daeef in aqeedah (i.e. they see shirk in everything) need not apply.

(salam)

But what about this Verse

[35:14] إن تدعوهم لا يسمعوا دعاءكم ولو سمعوا ما استجابوا لكم ويوم القيامة يكفرون بشرككم

"If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer you. On the Day of Judgment they will reject your Shirk"

Its clear as day isn't it??

Because most people follow culture and associate it with religion. They also follow liars who speak under the name of religion.

Couldn't agree more with you..

On the Day of Resurrection:

[34:32] The leaders will say to those who followed them, "Are we the ones who diverted you from the guidance after it came to you? No; it is you who were wicked."

[34:33] The followers will say to their leaders, "It was you who schemed night and day, then commanded us to be unappreciative of GOD, and to set up idols to rank with Him." They will be ridden with remorse, when they see the retribution, for we will place shackles around the necks of those who disbelieved. Are they not justly requited for what they did?

Edited by Shia't
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(salam)

But what about this Verse

[35:14] Åä ÊÏÚæåã áÇ íÓãÚæÇ ÏÚÇÁßã æáæ ÓãÚæÇ ãÇ ÇÓÊÌÇÈæÇ áßã æíæã ÇáÞíÇãÉ íßÝÑæä ÈÔÑßßã

"If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer you. On the Day of Judgment they will reject your Shirk"

Its clear as day isn't it??

This refers to the ordinary people. The Ma'sumeen are above that, and more importantly, their power to hear and answer comes from Allah (swt). The countless occasions of ulama having said salaam at the shrines of the Imam and receiving a reply from the grave is a testament to that.

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All 14 of the ma'soomeen are alive, and they can hear.

All shaheed and especially the Masoomeen are, in our beliefs, alive. However it would be a travesty of fairness and justice to imagine Allah would leave them alive on earth. When saying they are "alive", one would expect they've already been escorted to heaven right after their death and are not having to linger here on earth - a place that gave them so much grief.

Can you state any source that backs up your assumption that they are 'alive and omnipresent here on earth' and where they have claimed that 'Allah has granted them the responsibility of moving around and helping out people in need till eternity' or a simple statement of any Imam stating we should appeal to them for help?

For those arguing against the 'Ya Ali madad' stance, it would be worthwhile to understand this phenomenon from an anthropological angle. This practice (ya Ali madad) is quite widespread in the Indo-Pakistan region - a place where Shias migrated to over the centuries but that does not have any notable religious center of learning. As a result, the concept of Shi'ism mutated and through the course of time took on a life of its own - to the extent that many followers of Shia Islam from the Middle East and elsewhere won't even recognize a number of practices of South Asian Shias.

Edited by thepeacemaker
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wow, didnt my comments bring out the PMS brigade ;)

maula ali is the greatest being in the universe, after Allah and the prophet (pbuh).

the fact that i am not hiding a fundamental belief of shia islam doesnt make me a ghali. it makes those who hide their faith to please weak brained sunnis cowards.

Edited by maula dha mallang
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This refers to the ordinary people. The Ma'sumeen are above that, and more importantly, their power to hear and answer comes from Allah (swt). The countless occasions of ulama having said salaam at the shrines of the Imam and receiving a reply from the grave is a testament to that.

Again, i cant find any hadith or Holy Verses telling us to call on Imam Ali(as) or any other of the 14 Masumeen(as)... I can find you LOADS of hadith and Verses about calling on Allah...

Unfortunately, many Shias here in the sub-continent remember Ali(as) when they are in trouble instead of Allah(swt)!! Their saying Ya Ali, Ya Ali, all the time and i've never heard them say Ya Allah (just saying i never heard them, not that they never say it).. If it were in the Quran or hadith, then it was okay.. but i couldn't find this anywhere!!

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Again, i cant find any hadith or Holy Verses telling us to call on Imam Ali(as) or any other of the 14 Masumeen(as)... I can find you LOADS of hadith and Verses about calling on Allah...

Unfortunately, many Shias here in the sub-continent remember Ali(as) when they are in trouble instead of Allah(swt)!! Their saying Ya Ali, Ya Ali, all the time and i've never heard them say Ya Allah (just saying i never heard them, not that they never say it).. If it were in the Quran or hadith, then it was okay.. but i couldn't find this anywhere!!

Are you unable to read? I just told you that the Prophet on numerous occasions said Ya Ali, and most importantly on the day of Khayber. Not only that, the companions frequently used to say Ya Ali, so not only is it the sunnah of the Prophet, but even the sunnah of the companions!

As for this bashing of the Shi'as of the subcontinent, it should be pointed out that knowledge and Shi'i Islam is not the monopoly of Iran and Iraq.

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Are you unable to read? I just told you that the Prophet on numerous occasions said Ya Ali, and most importantly on the day of Khayber. Not only that, the companions frequently used to say Ya Ali, so not only is it the sunnah of the Prophet, but even the sunnah of the companions!

That was the kind of help everyone asks, like if you ask your friends or family for help doesn't mean your children should keep asking them even after they pass away.. The way people say Ya Ali nowadays, is no different from how they say Ya Allah..

The Question is: Did any of the 11 suceeding Imams(as) say Ya Ali Madad after he was martyred?

http://al-kafi.org/bok%206.htm

Check the entire book 6 of Usul-e-Kafi... so many hadith about calling on Allah, but none on Ya Ali Madad

Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (Pp).: Anyone who repeats the invocation of ‘Ya Allah’ ten times, he will be addressed (by God) with ‘Yes, I am here. What do you want?’(B6,C424,T1)

I will change my views as soon as anyone finds me a similar hadith about Ya Ali

Edited by Shia't
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That was the kind of help everyone asks, like if you ask your friends or family for help doesn't mean your children should keep asking them even after they pass away.

This is the point everyone keeps missing. Ali is alive, he can hear me, and he can respond me just as he could hear and respond when he was physically alive. There is no difference.

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The Prophet said Ya Ali (on the day of Khayber) amongst other times.

Yes. They lived together, they fought together, etc... and they called out to eachother on several occasions, whilst they were alive. I simply simply simply dont understand why people would say Ya Ali Madad, when they can directly say Ya Allah Madad. The verses in the Holy Quran are just so plain and clear. In hundreds upon hundreds of the verses, Allah (swt) says ''turn back to me'', ''call out to me', ''I will listen to your prayers'', etc etc. I mean seriously, how many of you are thinking about Allah (swt) when you say ''Ya Ali Madad''?

The reason that some people give for saying Ya Ali Madad, is that one cannot reach Allah (swt) directly and we need an intermediary, such as Imam Ali (as) to get to him. But really, read the Quran, and just ponder over this one verse, out of the many which say similar things.

"Tell them (O Muhammad ): 'O My slaves who have wronged their souls, do not despair of Allah's mercy, for Allah will forgive all the sins. He is indeed very Forgiving, very Compassionate, Turn to Him then, and obey Him (in all your affairs).'" (Al-Zumar:53,54)

A few months ago, I would have been defending this as well, but I've followed the past few threads on this here on ShiaChat with an open mind, read many of brother Fallahs posts and arguments, and honestly, I would just rather call out to Allah, with duest respect to Imam Ali (as), the commander of the faithful.

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Yes. They lived together, they fought together, etc... and they called out to eachother on several occasions, whilst they were alive. I simply simply simply dont understand why people would say Ya Ali Madad, when they can directly say Ya Allah Madad. The verses in the Holy Quran are just so plain and clear. In hundreds upon hundreds of the verses, Allah (swt) says ''turn back to me'', ''call out to me', ''I will listen to your prayers'', etc etc. I mean seriously, how many of you are thinking about Allah (swt) when you say ''Ya Ali Madad''?

He's still alive. I'm bored of repeating myself over and over again.

You go to a doctor when you're ill, you call up a plumber when your toilet is blocked, you hire a lawyer when you have a dispute, you get an engineer when your computer breaks down, yet when I say Ya Ali, you get offended!

Nothing personal, bro.

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He's still alive. I'm bored of repeating myself over and over again.

You go to a doctor when you're ill, you call up a plumber when your toilet is blocked, you hire a lawyer when you have a dispute, you get an engineer when your computer breaks down, yet when I say Ya Ali, you get offended!

Nothing personal, bro.

Yes, everyone knows he is alive.. You can even talk to him and ask him to pray for you. But the point is, he can't help you supernaturally the way Allah(swt) helps you.. He doesn't have the "Be and it is" powers

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Yes, everyone knows he is alive.. You can even talk to him and ask him to pray for you. But the point is, he can't help you supernaturally the way Allah(swt) helps you.. He doesn't have the "Be and it is" powers

He helps you because Allah has given the permission to do so.

He prayed salaatul janazah over a person who people thought was alive but he was dead, and he put Muhammad ibn Nusayr to death and then rose him back to life again.

After performing these actions, he would always pray a two rak'ah prayer to make sure that everyone realised that all this ability was due to Allah.

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Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Asalaam Alaykom,

thank you brother Shi'at very much, you just gave me a much greater understanding into this, for that I do thank you and ask Allah to bless you greatly in both this world and the hereafter...inshaAllah ameen

you guys need to keep posting, honestly you have been teaching me so much, I have spend most of my day crying

jazakAllah

wasalaam

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He's still alive. I'm bored of repeating myself over and over again.

You go to a doctor when you're ill, you call up a plumber when your toilet is blocked, you hire a lawyer when you have a dispute, you get an engineer when your computer breaks down, yet when I say Ya Ali, you get offended!

Nothing personal, bro.

Do you believe that Imam Ali (as) is All Seeing and All Hearing?

If not, how do you expect him to hear to your calls of Ya Ali Madad?

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Do you believe that Imam Ali (as) is All Seeing and All Hearing?

If not, how do you expect him to hear to your calls of Ya Ali Madad?

Yes he is. Though this power of his is from Allah and is not independent.

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There's many ayats in the Quran regarding intercession and the fact that those who have died in the way of Allah are not dead etc so saying Ya Ali Madad is completely permissible.Lets not forget that the Imams can't do anything without Allahs permission + due to the fact that they're sinless we ask them to intercede for us. An analogy of this would be if there is a box of tissues in a room and you're all the way on the other side of the room instead of going all the way to the other side to get the tissue there's someone who's sitting right besides the tissue box, their hands are practically in the box. Do you go all the way to the other side of the room to get some tissue or do you tell that person to give it to you. I heard this analogy somewhere and I hope I've conveyed the message properly. This is the same for intercession because as the Imams are closer to Allah then we are we can ask them for help.

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Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Asalaam Alaykom,

thank you brother Shi'at very much, you just gave me a much greater understanding into this, for that I do thank you and ask Allah to bless you greatly in both this world and the hereafter...inshaAllah ameen

you guys need to keep posting, honestly you have been teaching me so much, I have spend most of my day crying

jazakAllah

wasalaam

(wasalam)

Jazakallah Khair, i feel great after reading such beautiful comments.. Please let me know if theres anything more you wish to learn about and InshAllah i will help you.. May Allah make you succeed in all your worldly and religious goals and grant Jannah to you and your family

He helps you because Allah has given the permission to do so.

He prayed salaatul janazah over a person who people thought was alive but he was dead, and he put Muhammad ibn Nusayr to death and then rose him back to life again.

After performing these actions, he would always pray a two rak'ah prayer to make sure that everyone realised that all this ability was due to Allah.

There is no doubt that Imam Ali (as) had performed many miracles in his life by Allah(swt)'s Will. But, as i showed earlier, there exist many Verses in the Quran telling us to call on Allah(swt) (by calling on, i mean someone who possesses the "Be and It is" powers). Ya Ali Madad is clearly not intercession, rather its as if your calling on Imam Ali (as) to help you instead of Allah. Bring me a Verse of the Quran to refute my interpretation of the Verse i've been showing :

[35:14] Åä ÊÏÚæåã áÇ íÓãÚæÇ ÏÚÇÁßã æáæ ÓãÚæÇ ãÇ ÇÓÊÌÇÈæÇ áßã æíæã ÇáÞíÇãÉ íßÝÑæä ÈÔÑßßã

"If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer you. On the Day of Judgment they will reject your Shirk"

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Do you believe that Imam Ali (as) is All Seeing and All Hearing?

If not, how do you expect him to hear to your calls of Ya Ali Madad?

er bro i thought you were an usooli? which marja has taught you these views?

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There's many ayats in the Quran regarding intercession and the fact that those who have died in the way of Allah are not dead etc so saying Ya Ali Madad is completely permissible.Lets not forget that the Imams can't do anything without Allahs permission + due to the fact that they're sinless we ask them to intercede for us. An analogy of this would be if there is a box of tissues in a room and you're all the way on the other side of the room instead of going all the way to the other side to get the tissue there's someone who's sitting right besides the tissue box, their hands are practically in the box. Do you go all the way to the other side of the room to get some tissue or do you tell that person to give it to you. I heard this analogy somewhere and I hope I've conveyed the message properly. This is the same for intercession because as the Imams are closer to Allah then we are we can ask them for help.

1. It's not proper to compare Allah to his creations.

2. Allah is closer to you than Ali, so your analogy is incorrect in the first place.

50:16 We verily created man and We know what his soul whispereth to him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein.

This refers to the ordinary people. The Ma'sumeen are above that, and more importantly, their power to hear and answer comes from Allah (swt). The countless occasions of ulama having said salaam at the shrines of the Imam and receiving a reply from the grave is a testament to that.

41:6 Say (unto them O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you. It is inspired in me that your Allah is One Allah, therefor take the straight path unto Him and seek forgiveness of Him. And woe unto the idolaters,

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