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In the Name of God بسم الله

Saying Ali Madad

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You sound like someone who believes that man landing on the moon is kufr.

Where does it say in Quran that having powers to hear from afar is equal to making a partner to Allah?

If you were a simple person back 200 years ago, I would understand your mindset. But in this day and age when science has advanced enough that one can hear people as far away as the moon, you doubt that Allah can give someone the power to hear from a far off distance?

What if I prove to you that Prophets have extraordinary powers? They can hear things that you and I cant, they can see things you and I cant and even know things hidden from human eye.

Know that Allah's can grant someone powers way beyond our scientific gadgets. You are worried how he could hear from far off , he (S) traveled through space 1400 + years ago.

Just because you dont understand a hadith does not mean its against Quran.Also point out what in those hadith is against quran.

Vain talk. Show the evidence that Allah permits you to call on other than him. Or do you claim that the verses I posted are vague? Or perhaps that they don't really mean anything?

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Waiting for the verses.

It's funny how you derive something that is not in the verse

We sent not an apostle, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful. (QURAN 4:64)

Understand the purpose of this verse, read the beginning of it. So now you understand what it means to come to the prophet?

Good that you quoted the whole verse - why obey the Messenger at all? Surely obedience is for Allah alone and therefore obedience to anyone else is shirk. Do you see how ridiculous your argument is when taken to its logical conclusion?

The Prophet being alive, or able to hear, is a power given to him by Allah - and to deny that Allah has the capability to do that for the most beloved of his servants is biggest kufr ever.

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Good that you quoted the whole verse - why obey the Messenger at all? Surely obedience is for Allah alone and therefore obedience to anyone else is shirk. Do you see how ridiculous your argument is when taken to its logical conclusion?

The Prophet being alive, or able to hear, is a power given to him by Allah - and to deny that Allah has the capability to do that for the most beloved of his servants is biggest kufr ever.

Then please tell us what the verses were talking about (the ones against invoking other than Allah). You took 2 verses out of the Quran (this one and the one whear Allah tells us not to say the martyrs are dead, even though it does not give you the right to call them or that they are in contact with you) to go against hundreds of other verses. On top of that, you have no verse which gives you the permission or any evidence that

1. You have the right to call on other than Allah

2. That other than Allah can hear your dua

3. That calling on other than Allah is not shirk

4. That the Prophet was granted the ability to repond to your request after him passing away

5. That Allah has given the Prophet the ability to hear your requests after he passes away

theses issues are clearly treated in the verses I posted and they tell us that it is against reason and is polytheism to do so.

So the challenge remains. where are theses verses where Allah gave you the permission to call on other than him?

Taken inversly, what is Allah telling us in the verses I quoted? And the fact that there is no dua in the Quran where someone called upon other than Allah is another thing that puts this position of yours out of Islam.

Tell me, which is insane,

to interpret 2 verses against 99% of the Quran,

or

to take theses 2 verses as they are stated, knowing that they naturally matche the rest of the Quran?

Is it me or are you the one with the disease of literalism? How come you take the verse "martyrs are not dead they are alive" as literal and you even go your way to say that they have the capacity to hear your invocations, when clearly the rest of the Quranic verses are against that idea?

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Be logical. You dont use the strongest medicine first.

For more difficult problems we seek the Wasila of Rasool Allah (pbuh). For example in dua Tawasul we seek the wasila of Rasool Allah (pbuh) first.

Just like if you can see the specialist you don't go to the doctor

I frequently say Ya Muhammad Madad, but Ya Ali is superior to that statement for one reason alone: Muhammad (saw) himself said it.

Statement without context means nothing. I haven't said much in terms of whether I think it's right or wrong to say it, but the arguments of those who promote it are usually baseless and have no real substance. The Prophet (pbuh) called Ali a.s. to help him. Based on that, and what happened, do you think the same will happen to you?

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Let's make this clear for those who actually want the truth.

Here are some clear cut verses where Allah prohibits you to call on other than him:

If you call upon them, they hear not your call, and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them" 35:14

Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion id due? But those who take for protectors others than Allah say: We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah. Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful. 39:3

When our Messengers come to them to take their souls, they will say: 'Where are those whom you used to invoke and worship besides Allah,'they will reply, 'They have vanished and deserted us. 'And they will bear witness against themselves, that they were disbelievers." 7:37

And when My slaves ask you concerning Me, then (say) I am indeed near. I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me. So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright. 2:186

And they worship besides Allaah things that harm them not, nor profit them, and they say: 'These are our intercessors with Allaah 10:18

Say (O Muhammad): Who rescues you from the darkness of the land and the sea, (when) you call upon Him in humility and in secret (saying): If He (Allaah) only saves us from this, we shall truly, be grateful. 6:63

And the mosques are for Allaah (Alone), so invoke not anyone along with Allaah 72:18

Such is Allaah, your Lord; His is the kingdom. And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmeer. If you invoke them, they hear not your call; and if they were to hear, they could not grant it to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad) like Him Who is the AllKnower 35:13-14

Say: Have you considered what you call upon besides Allah? Show me what they have created of the earth, or have they a share in the heavens? Bring me a book before this or traces of knowledge, if you are truthful. And who is in greater error than he who calls besides Allah upon those that will not answer him till the day of resurrection and they are heedless of their call? And when men are gathered together they shall be their enemies, and shall be deniers of their worshipping (them). 46:4-6

Do they attribute as partners to Allaah those who created nothing but they themselves are created? No help can they give them, nor can they help themselves. And if you call them to guidance, they follow you not. It is the same for you whether you call them or you keep silent. Verily, those whom you call upon besides Allaah are slaves like you. So call upon them and let them answer you if you are truthful 7:191-194

And do not call besides Allah on that which can neither benefit you nor harm you, for if you do then surely you will in that case be of the unjust. 10:106

Say (O Muhammad ): I invoke only my Lord (Allâh Alone), and I associate none as partners along with Him. 72:20

Say: Surely no one can protect me against Allah, nor can I find besides Him any place of refuge 72:22

Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. 9:3

Or have they adopted intercessors besides Allah? Say: “Even though they do not control a thing and have no awareness?” Say: “ Intercession is entirely Allah's affair . The kingdom of the heavens and Earth is His. Then you will be returned to Him.39:43-44

Allah created the heavens and Earth and everything between them in six days, and then established Himself firmly upon the Throne. You have no protector or intercessor apart from Him. So will you not pay heed? 32:4

We have no problem whatsoever to call upon Allah swt. The question is how to call upon Allah swt in the best manner...in the manner that not promoted by syaitans. I qoute one verse above

Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors others than Allah say: We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah. Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful. 39:3

Surely Allah swt have given to humans the approved ways to reach Him (swt). Musa (as) wanted to see Allah swt directly, but that method was not approved. Therefore, Musa talked to Allah swt through a mean. Eventhough Musa (as) talked to Allah swt through a mean, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT he (as) did not talk to Allah swt. Eventhough he talked to Allah swt indirectly, he was still considered talking to Allah swt because his intention is talking to Allah swt and Allah swt approved that method.

The approved method to reach Allah swt must come through His (swt) guardians.

To take guardians beside Allah without His permission is strictly prohibited.

Verse 55 of al Ma-idah says:

Verily, your guardian is Allah and His messenger and those who believe and establish the prayer, and give the poor-rate while they are (in the state of ruku) bowing down.

The guardians are connected to Allah swt. We know that that connection is through Tauhid. The souls of Prophet and Imams (Walis) are the true witness of Unity of Allah swt. They witness the Unity in Totalness, the Holy Names of Allah swt is totally controlling their nafs. Therefore they are Allah swt means to communicate to humans and the interpretors of Qur'an (words of Allah swt). Allah swt make their souls alive so that they can be our continuous guardian (in worshipping Allah swt).

The soul of our Prophet (pbuh) was given a physical body 1400 years ago. However, the soul of our Prophet existed before and and will live as long as Allah swt wishes too. The Prophet soul guides people of the past and future. In order to remove the doubt that the soul of the Prophet is not disconnected from us after the physical body was removed from the Prophet soul, Allah swt told us in Quran that those who witnessed Allah (shuhadas) will never die or disconnected from us.

In such a way that syaitans can't interfere by trying to misguide the humans after the body of the Prophet was removed from his soul.

How the Prophet and Imams guide us to Allah swt? There are two ways that we/they have access to them/us:

1. Physically (1400 years ago)

2. Spiritually (no time limit)

Our ultimate goal is to worship Allah swt (as stated by above verses of QUr'an). But we need the approved methods. Therefore, we stickl to our Walis (Prophet and Imams) and together with them we worship Allah swt. Our living souls and their living souls are together in worship Allah swt. At the end, souls of Muhammad and Imams park in the our heart and unite with our souls which then will translate into our physical actions (not just aamal but aamal soleh). And we represent what Muhammad want us to be. And Muhammad represents what Allah swt want a human to be ideally. And what we want to be is to worship Allah swt that is lead by our Prophet (meaning we follow the footsteps of Prophet in worshipping Allah swt).

Layman

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bro vigilaire

There's a difference between going to the doctor for help, which is not an act of worship, and invoking the doctor for help, which is an act of worship. Nobody believed they could invoke the Prophet on earth, so when they wanted something or needed something they went to him. But when he passes away, suddenly you've got people claiming that the Prophet somehow gained the ability to hear people after he leaves this world. It's crazy, defies the very basic principles of aql, defies every dua in the Quran and every verse in it.

The fact that the Quran

1. is full of verses condemning calling on other than Allah

2. that all the duas in the Quran are only to Allah

3. that there are no verses that give people the right to invoke other than Allah

4. That the Prophet is our example, and he didn't invoke other than Allah

Is more than enough to conclude that those who claim it is permissible are making the haram halal.

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bro vigilaire

There's a difference between going to the doctor for help, which is not an act of worship, and invoking the doctor for help, which is an act of worship. Nobody believed they could invoke the Prophet on earth, so when they wanted something or needed something they went to him. But when he passes away, suddenly you've got people claiming that the Prophet somehow gained the ability to hear people after he leaves this world. It's crazy, defies the very basic principles of aql, defies every dua in the Quran and every verse in it.

The fact that the Quran

1. is full of verses condemning calling on other than Allah

2. that all the duas in the Quran are only to Allah

3. that there are no verses that give people the right to invoke other than Allah

4. That the Prophet is our example, and he didn't invoke other than Allah

Is more than enough to conclude that those who claim it is permissible are making the haram halal.

You just don't understand why Allah swt make the souls of Shuhada "alive". You don't understand how /and why Hazrat Isa and Hazrat Khdr are alive...for what purpose they are alive?

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We have no problem whatsoever to call upon Allah swt. The question is how to call upon Allah swt in the best manner...in the manner that not promoted by syaitans. I qoute one verse above

Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors others than Allah say: We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah. Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful. 39:3

Surely Allah swt have given to humans the approved ways to reach Him (swt). Musa (as) wanted to see Allah swt directly, but that method was not approved. Therefore, Musa talked to Allah swt through a mean. Eventhough Musa (as) talked to Allah swt through a mean, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT he (as) did not talk to Allah swt. Eventhough he talked to Allah swt indirectly, he was still considered talking to Allah swt because his intention is talking to Allah swt and Allah swt approved that method.

The approved method to reach Allah swt must come through His (swt) guardians.

To take guardians beside Allah without His permission is strictly prohibited.

Verse 55 of al Ma-idah says:

Verily, your guardian is Allah and His messenger and those who believe and establish the prayer, and give the poor-rate while they are (in the state of ruku) bowing down.

The guardians are connected to Allah swt. We know that that connection is through Tauhid. The souls of Prophet and Imams (Walis) are the true witness of Unity of Allah swt. They witness the Unity in Totalness, the Holy Names of Allah swt is totally controlling their nafs. Therefore they are Allah swt means to communicate to humans and the interpretors of Qur'an (words of Allah swt). Allah swt make their souls alive so that they can be our continuous guardian (in worshipping Allah swt).

The soul of our Prophet (pbuh) was given a physical body 1400 years ago. However, the soul of our Prophet existed before and and will live as long as Allah swt wishes too. The Prophet soul guides people of the past and future. In order to remove the doubt that the soul of the Prophet is not disconnected from us after the physical body was removed from the Prophet soul, Allah swt told us in Quran that those who witnessed Allah (shuhadas) will never die or disconnected from us.

In such a way that syaitans can't interfere by trying to misguide the humans after the body of the Prophet was removed from his soul.

How the Prophet and Imams guide us to Allah swt? There are two ways that we/they have access to them/us:

1. Physically (1400 years ago)

2. Spiritually (no time limit)

Our ultimate goal is to worship Allah swt (as stated by above verses of QUr'an). But we need the approved methods. Therefore, we stickl to our Walis (Prophet and Imams) and together with them we worship Allah swt. Our living souls and their living souls are together in worship Allah swt. At the end, souls of Muhammad and Imams park in the our heart and unite with our souls which then will translate into our physical actions (not just aamal but aamal soleh). And we represent what Muhammad want us to be. And Muhammad represents what Allah swt want a human to be ideally. And what we want to be is to worship Allah swt that is lead by our Prophet.

Layman

Cool theory

Talking about approved methods, where did Allah approve your theory and your calling to other than him? I see that in the text you wrote you didn't provide a single verse giving you permission.

You just don't understand why Allah swt make the souls of Shuhada "alive". You don't understand how /and why Hazrat Isa and Hazrat Khdr are alive...for what purpose they are alive?

Are the disbelievers alive in their graves? In other words, do they suffer the punishment of the grave? If so, how can they be dead?

Perhaps you are the one who don't understand why Allah says that they are alive.

Let me explain what he means by that: Martyrs will get their rewards with Allah, and in that sense, they are alive.

Why do we say that those who have deep knowledge of things are alive, and that the ignorant ones are dead?

Are they alive and dead in it's physical sense, or is it a metaphor to explain their condition?

Likewise, other verses resort to such metaphorical expressions:

103: 2-3 Most surely man is in loss, Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience.

If we were to take the first part in literal sense, could we claim that an unjust king is at loss, when all that he does is gain more and more in power and in wealth? Or does Allah here mean that "loss" is the real loss, as in to be thrown in Hell?

Look at theses 2 expressions:

-Grief and trouble bring life, whereas prosperity and pleasure bring death.

-Paradise is surrounded by things that you dislike.

Is Paradise, prosperity and pleasure really negative and disliked? Or is there a clever meaning behind theses 2 expressions?

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Cool theory

Talking about approved methods, where did Allah approve your theory and your calling to other than him? I see that in the text you wrote you didn't provide a single verse giving you permission.

Are the disbelievers alive in their graves? In other words, do they suffer the punishment of the grave? Or are they dead, because they are not righteous or martyrs?

If you don't understand the concept of spiritual existent, then too bad. The only different between we and you is that you are detached from the Prophet who are our Guardians and this is what syaitans want us to be. YOu call upon Allah by yourself and alone...we call upon Allah swt together with our Prophet. A call upon Allah is a spiritual call and not a physical call.

The disbeliever souls are put in Barzakh for interogation.

Everthing in physical forms will perish...even Kaabah the stone building will perish...but BAITULLAH will remain forever!

Perhaps you are the one who don't understand why Allah says that they are alive.

Let me explain what he means by that: Martyrs will get their rewards with Allah, and in that sense, they are alive.

Why do we say that those who have deep knowledge of things are alive, and that the ignorant ones are dead?

Are they alive and dead in it's physical sense, or is it a metaphor to explain their condition?

The are alive because they witness Allah existent and the Holy Names of Allah (Light) is part of their souls. Anything that related to Holy Names of Allah swt is Alive....including the souls of shuhadas and Ulamas, awliya, aushiya, Nabis and Prophets.

All humans will get rewards for their actions....good or bad rewards. It is depend on the brightness of Light in their souls. If they cover up the Light in their heart and souls...they are kufr. If they witness the Light to the fullest, they are shuhada.

Those who transgress again their own souls will regret. Those who witness the Light of Allah in their souls will live and roam the universe and into the Kingdom of Allah swt freely.

Layman

103: 2-3 Most surely man is in loss, Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience.

If we were to take the first part in literal sense, could we claim that an unjust king is at loss, when all that he does is gain more and more in power and in wealth? Or does Allah here mean that "loss" is the real loss, as in to be thrown in Hell?

Look at theses 2 expressions:

-Grief and trouble bring life, whereas prosperity and pleasure bring death.

-Paradise is surrounded by things that you dislike.

Is Paradise, prosperity and pleasure really negative and disliked? Or is there a clever meaning behind theses 2 expressions?

'qn

The question is still how not to be in a constant loss...by belief and aamal soleh and patience. We need examples to be like the person whom qur'an want us to be.

Who will show us that clear examples...Our Prophet and Imams. If they are disconnected from us...how would they lead us on our daily livings so we will not be at loss. Never will a person be at loss if their wali is with them in doing their aamal and in their call upon Allah swt on daily basis.

Fallah,

Do you know why muslim ummah at so degraded (at total loss) today....because they have abandoned the Prophet and his guidance. They are so detached from the Prophet that Allah have not given victory to them.

The surah 103 clearly shows that spiritually is detached from our Guardians (wali) to us despite we have physical hadiths and Qur'an with us. Now, we see some group of muslims are standing up in term of belief, technology, bravery to show to the world that real Islam will be victorious.

Can you identify the groups...they believe in Allah swt , Muhammad and Imamate. They have connection with their walis. They know how to prepare themselves against the kufr. They are not at loss.

We also have muslims in many muslim countries...they have books and hadiths...but they have no spiritual guidance. They becoming extremist...follow the method promote by syaitans.

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If you don't understand the concept of spiritual existent, then too bad.

You're cherry picking. did the Prophet have a soul on earth? If so, then why didn't anyone call on him from afar? And the fact that spirits exists doesn't give you the permissibility to contact them or that they have been given omniscience. The same way, not because alcohol contains beneficial effects on the heart that you have the right to go and drink it.

The disbeliever souls are put in Barzakh for interogation.

then you are claiming that they are not dead, because something that is dead has no soul, if we want to play it literal.

Do you know why muslim ummah at so degraded (at total loss) today....because they have abandoned the Prophet and his guidance. They are so detached from the Prophet that Allah have not given victory to them.

Yeah I know this, that's why I stick to the commands of Allah and don't claim that something is permissible when Allah made it haram. Where is the verse of permission? All we have are verses of prohibition. Who is disconnecting himself from the Prophet more than the one who disregards the Quran?

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(bismillah)

Fallah I have already shown you hadith, from your own books, that tell you the state of Prophets after they pass away. Why do you ignore them:

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: There is a mobile (squads) of Angels on Earth convey to me the blessings invoked upon me by my Ummah.

(AL-Tirmidhi hadith 290)

-----------

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "Invoke many blessings on me on Friday for it is witnessed. The angels are present on it, and no one will invoke a blessing on me without his blessing being submitted to me till he stops." I asked whether that applied also after his death, and he replied, "Allah has prohibited the Earth from consuming the bodies of the prophets; so Allah's prophet is alive and given provision."

(AL-Tirmidhi hadith 413)

------

The above 2 hadith ^^^^ tells us that the blessings reach him via angels. Both when he is alive on earth and after he passed away.

So if the Prophet (pbuh) is ALIVE, given provision from Allah, conveyed and receive our blessings. What stops him from receiving our requests to do dua to Allah on our behalf????

========

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309: It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of version. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk. I chose the milk, and Gabriel said: You have chosen the natural thing. Then he took me to heaven. Gabriel then asked the (gate of heaven) to be opened and he was asked who he was. He replied: Gabriel. He was again asked: Who is with you? He (Gabriel) said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for. And (the door of the heaven) was opened for us and lo! we saw Adam. He welcomed me and prayed for my good. Then we ascended to the second heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) (asked the door of heaven to be opened), and he was asked who he was. He answered: Gabriel; and was again asked: Who is with you? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The gate was opened. When I entered 'Isa b. Maryam and Yahya b. Zakariya (peace be upon both of them), cousins from the maternal side. welcomed me and prayed for my good Then I was taken to the third heaven and Gabriel asked for the opening (of the door). He was asked: Who are you? He replied: Gabriel. He was (again) asked: Who is with you? He replied Muhammad (may peace be upon him). It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and I saw Yusuf (peace of Allah be upon him) who had been given half of (world) beauty. He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then he ascended with us to the fourth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the (gate) to be opened, and it was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with you? He said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The (gate) was opened for us, and lo! Idris was there. He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being (About him) Allah, the Exalted and the Glorious, has said:" We elevated him (Idris) to the exalted position" (Qur'an xix. 57). Then he ascended with us to the fifth heaven and Gabriel asked for the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and then I was with Harun (Aaron-peace of Allah be upon him). He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken to the sixth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the door to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I was with Musa (Moses peace be upon him) He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken up to the seventh heaven. Gabriel asked the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He said: Gabriel It was said. Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad (may peace be upon him.) It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I found Ibrahim (Abraham peace be upon him) reclining against the Bait-ul-Ma'mur and there enter into it seventy thousand angels every day, never to visit (this place) again. Then I was taken to Sidrat-ul-Muntaha whose leaves were like elephant ears and its fruit like big earthenware vessels. And when it was covered by the Command of Allah, it underwent such a change that none amongst the creation has the power to praise its beauty.

Then Allah revealed to me a revelation and He made obligatory for me fifty prayers every day and night. Then I went down to Moses (peace be upon him) and he said: What has your Lord enjoined upon your Ummah? I said: Fifty prayers. He said: Return to thy Lord and beg for reduction (in the number of prayers), for your community shallnot be able to bear this burden. as I have put to test the children of Isra'il and tried them (and found them too weak to bear such a heavy burden). He (the Holy Prophet) said: I went back to my Lord and said: My Lord, make things lighter for my Ummah. (The Lord) reduced five prayers for me. I went down to Moses and said. (The Lord) reduced five (prayers) for me, He said: Verily thy Ummah shall not be able to bear this burden; return to thy Lord and ask Him to make things lighter. I then kept going back and forth between my Lord Blessed and Exalted and Moses, till He said: There are five prayers every day and night. O Muhammad, each being credited as ten, so that makes fifty prayers. He who intends to do a good deed and does not do it will have a good deed recorded for him; and if he does it, it will be recorded for him as ten; whereas he who intends to do an evil deed and does not do, it will not be recorded for him; and if he does it, only one evil deed will be recorded. I then came down and when I came to Moses and informed him, he said: Go back to thy Lord and ask Him to make things lighter. Upon this the Messenger of Allah remarked: I returned to my Lord until I felt ashamed before Him.

=============

This ^^ hadith proves that:

1-Unlike common people, the Prophets of the past have a high station.

2-They have a physical body that can be seen.

3-They can welcome others.

4-They can pray for someones good and well-being.

5-They can communicate i.e. talk with others.

6-They can advise others and thus bring a change.

So if all these (apparently "dead") Prophets (as) do all these things, what prevents the Seal of Prophets (pbuh) from carrying out these tasks?

WS

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You're cherry picking. did the Prophet have a soul on earth? If so, then why didn't anyone call on him from afar? And the fact that spirits exists doesn't give you the permissibility to contact them or that they have been given omniscience. The same way, not because alcohol contains beneficial effects on the heart that you have the right to go and drink it.

I told you that you do not understand the reality of the spirituality and physical world. Earth is for physical body to live on it. The Kingdom of Allah swt consists of physical and non physical. The souls of human control his physical body.

We the currently living humans have two parts: physical and spiritual. The physical part is called a physical body. Everybody has differences in term of physical. We also have souls.... We also have heart... it is a faculty to roam the kingdom of Allah swt. If the heart is clean enough, it will see the spiritual world. How the heart see the spiritual world can't be described in physical writing. The heart can connect us to the souled (spiritual) world.

It is through the heart that mukmins are connected even though we are physically apart. The heart can go beyond the limitation of time. Again, this is with the permission of Allah swt.

We don't take about spirits (ruh) because only Allah swt about it.

then you are claiming that they are not dead, because something that is dead has no soul, if we want to play it literal.

When the souls are disconnected from the Kingdom (they have no influence anymore)..it is called dead soul (no more freedom). Those souls that are free to roam the Kingdom of Allah swt...is call alive (free). When Ali (as) was strucked by Ibnul Muljam...he raise his head and said "I am free oh the Raabul Kaabah".

When our souls are in our body (living on the earth), we are supposed to clean our souls (tazkiyah bi nafs). We should NOT allow our nafs to follow anything except what Allah swt approved. Otherwise we are zaalim to our ownselves. To do that we need Prophet and Imams who souls already purified (33:33) to be wali of our souls so they can drive our souls to worship Allah swt in the approved manner. Rasul is closer to us than our ownselves.

In reality souls never die...death of souls is defined in term of "freedom". The biggest pain that our souls will feel when the physical death comes is when the freedom is taken away. We are NOT able to return back to correct ourselves after seeing the truth that Allah swt will present to us. That pain is so tremendous that we wish we don't exist. In the hereafter, souls of many people try to beg from our Prophet (as) for intercession because they know that the Souls of Prophets and Imams are free to ask Allah swt for clemency.

Yeah I know this, that's why I stick to the commands of Allah and don't claim that something is permissible when Allah made it haram. Where is the verse of permission? All we have are verses of prohibition. Who is disconnecting himself from the Prophet more than the one who disregards the Quran?

That is the difference between you and us. We stick to Qur'an (which Allah swt protect) and Ahlulbayt (which Allah already purified in 33:33). We have authentic hadiths which stated that "Hold on to Qur'an and Ahlulbayt, you will NEVER go astray".

How to hold on is subject to individual understanding. We know qur'an is alive and so does Ahlulbayt. Again we are not saying physical term.

Layman

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(bismillah)

Fallah I have already shown you hadith, from your own books, that tell you the state of Prophets after they pass away. Why do you ignore them:

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: There is a mobile (squads) of Angels on Earth convey to me the blessings invoked upon me by my Ummah.

(AL-Tirmidhi hadith 290)

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Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "Invoke many blessings on me on Friday for it is witnessed. The angels are present on it, and no one will invoke a blessing on me without his blessing being submitted to me till he stops." I asked whether that applied also after his death, and he replied, "Allah has prohibited the Earth from consuming the bodies of the prophets; so Allah's prophet is alive and given provision."

(AL-Tirmidhi hadith 413)

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The above 2 hadith ^^^^ tells us that the blessings reach him via angels. Both when he is alive on earth and after he passed away.

So if the Prophet (pbuh) is ALIVE, given provision from Allah, conveyed and receive our blessings. What stops him from receiving our requests to do dua to Allah on our behalf????

========

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309: It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of version. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk. I chose the milk, and Gabriel said: You have chosen the natural thing. Then he took me to heaven. Gabriel then asked the (gate of heaven) to be opened and he was asked who he was. He replied: Gabriel. He was again asked: Who is with you? He (Gabriel) said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for. And (the door of the heaven) was opened for us and lo! we saw Adam. He welcomed me and prayed for my good. Then we ascended to the second heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) (asked the door of heaven to be opened), and he was asked who he was. He answered: Gabriel; and was again asked: Who is with you? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The gate was opened. When I entered 'Isa b. Maryam and Yahya b. Zakariya (peace be upon both of them), cousins from the maternal side. welcomed me and prayed for my good Then I was taken to the third heaven and Gabriel asked for the opening (of the door). He was asked: Who are you? He replied: Gabriel. He was (again) asked: Who is with you? He replied Muhammad (may peace be upon him). It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and I saw Yusuf (peace of Allah be upon him) who had been given half of (world) beauty. He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then he ascended with us to the fourth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the (gate) to be opened, and it was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with you? He said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The (gate) was opened for us, and lo! Idris was there. He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being (About him) Allah, the Exalted and the Glorious, has said:" We elevated him (Idris) to the exalted position" (Qur'an xix. 57). Then he ascended with us to the fifth heaven and Gabriel asked for the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and then I was with Harun (Aaron-peace of Allah be upon him). He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken to the sixth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the door to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I was with Musa (Moses peace be upon him) He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken up to the seventh heaven. Gabriel asked the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He said: Gabriel It was said. Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad (may peace be upon him.) It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I found Ibrahim (Abraham peace be upon him) reclining against the Bait-ul-Ma'mur and there enter into it seventy thousand angels every day, never to visit (this place) again. Then I was taken to Sidrat-ul-Muntaha whose leaves were like elephant ears and its fruit like big earthenware vessels. And when it was covered by the Command of Allah, it underwent such a change that none amongst the creation has the power to praise its beauty.

Then Allah revealed to me a revelation and He made obligatory for me fifty prayers every day and night. Then I went down to Moses (peace be upon him) and he said: What has your Lord enjoined upon your Ummah? I said: Fifty prayers. He said: Return to thy Lord and beg for reduction (in the number of prayers), for your community shallnot be able to bear this burden. as I have put to test the children of Isra'il and tried them (and found them too weak to bear such a heavy burden). He (the Holy Prophet) said: I went back to my Lord and said: My Lord, make things lighter for my Ummah. (The Lord) reduced five prayers for me. I went down to Moses and said. (The Lord) reduced five (prayers) for me, He said: Verily thy Ummah shall not be able to bear this burden; return to thy Lord and ask Him to make things lighter. I then kept going back and forth between my Lord Blessed and Exalted and Moses, till He said: There are five prayers every day and night. O Muhammad, each being credited as ten, so that makes fifty prayers. He who intends to do a good deed and does not do it will have a good deed recorded for him; and if he does it, it will be recorded for him as ten; whereas he who intends to do an evil deed and does not do, it will not be recorded for him; and if he does it, only one evil deed will be recorded. I then came down and when I came to Moses and informed him, he said: Go back to thy Lord and ask Him to make things lighter. Upon this the Messenger of Allah remarked: I returned to my Lord until I felt ashamed before Him.

=============

This ^^ hadith proves that:

1-Unlike common people, the Prophets of the past have a high station.

2-They have a physical body that can be seen.

3-They can welcome others.

4-They can pray for someones good and well-being.

5-They can communicate i.e. talk with others.

6-They can advise others and thus bring a change.

So if all these (apparently "dead") Prophets (as) do all these things, what prevents the Seal of Prophets (pbuh) from carrying out these tasks?

WS

You: Ya ali madad

Allah: Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment. 18:102

And i thought you people said you follow the hadith only if it matches the quran.

Theses are not "my books", theses are traditions available for any person who chooses to consult them. Like I said, it's funny how people love to divide the ummah through denomination and labeling.

What did you do with the verses that forbid you to call on other than Allah?

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layman, your theories and philosophical explanations are of no worth in front of the prohibition of calling on other than Allah in the Quran.

You still haven't explained what Allah is forbidding in theses verses if he's not forbidding what you do.

---

It's so sad that people need to write long paragraphs to validate something that has been clearly prohibited over and over again.

And your Lord says: Call upon Me, I will answer you; surely those who are too proud for My service shall soon enter hell abased. 40:60

Ignore the verses as usual.

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(bismillah)

In other words you have no reply to these hadith. You cant prove that these hadith are against the verses of Quran, yet you choose no neglect them. A person sincere to get to the truth will look at all evidence logical proof, Quranic Ayats, Hadith, everything. Neglecting hadith makes your position weak.

Let us look at the ayat you quoted:

You: Ya ali madad

Allah: Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment. 18:102

If someone were to say "Ya Daddy Madad" it would be considered Shirk if he thought his Daddy can be his protector besides Allah. This would apply to non-believers who dont have faith in Allah. But Muslims have faith in Allah. They may say Ya Daddy Madad, Ya person standing in front of us Madad with a full understanding that all powers belong to Allah and no one could help them without the will of Allah.

When we say Ya ali madad we dont say that besides Allah. Our intention is for him to help us with the permission of Allah, and not independent of him.

Since we consider him alive we don't differentiate b/w Ya Ali Madad or Ya person standing in front of us Madad.

Correct me if I am wrong but I know that you do not consider it haram to ask your living doctor, brother or sister for help. Your issue is asking those whom you think are "dead" for help. You consider that haram and shirk.

-Your view is that "dead" cant hear.

-Thinking that dead could hear is like giving Godly powers to them and therefore its Shirk.

-Saying Ya Ali Madad is invoking Ali (A) but saying Ya Daddy Madad is not.

-Saying Ya Ali Madad is dua (and dua is for Allah only) but saying Ya Daddy Madad is not dua,

These are some of your points. BUT what you fail to understand is that Prophets, Shohoda (martyrs) and pious servants of Allah are an exception (see hadith I have quoted) If Allah has appointed angels to convey our blessings to the Prophet (S) what prevents Him from conveying our "Ya Rasool Allah (S) Madad to him.

Also we are not asking Prophet (S) or Ali (A) to do anything haram for us. Or do anything against the permission of Allah for us. We are simply asking them to do dua in front of Allah for us.......thus all duas are directed towards Allah and Allah only.

Also while we are duing dua to Allah directly at the same time. Its not as if we have forgotten Allah and remembering others. Thats not the case.

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Statement without context means nothing. I haven't said much in terms of whether I think it's right or wrong to say it, but the arguments of those who promote it are usually baseless and have no real substance. The Prophet (pbuh) called Ali a.s. to help him. Based on that, and what happened, do you think the same will happen to you?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Ali (as) helped the Prophet (pbuh) numerous times. He also helps, with the permission of Allah, anyone else who asks for his assistance. The evidence for this is fairly evident - on the night of hijrah, the soul of Ali (as) was sold to Allah in exchange for his pleasure (2:207) - now there's no difference between the pleasure of Allah and the pleasure of Ali (as) - and his soul is the property of Allah.

You're cherry picking. did the Prophet have a soul on earth? If so, then why didn't anyone call on him from afar? And the fact that spirits exists doesn't give you the permissibility to contact them or that they have been given omniscience. The same way, not because alcohol contains beneficial effects on the heart that you have the right to go and drink it.

The Prophet (pbuh) called Ali (as) from afar on the day of Khayber - was he committing shirk (naudhobillah)?

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--

layman, your theories and philosophical explanations are of no worth in front of the prohibition of calling on other than Allah in the Quran.

You still haven't explained what Allah is forbidding in theses verses if he's not forbidding what you do.

---

It's so sad that people need to write long paragraphs to validate something that has been clearly prohibited over and over again.

And your Lord says: Call upon Me, I will answer you; surely those who are too proud for My service shall soon enter hell abased. 40:60

Ignore the verses as usual.

Fallah,

Let us forget for a second about the role of Rasul and Imams...tell us how would you call upon Him (swt) as written on 40:60 ??? Show us the best way...the most accepted ways by Allah swt.

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Fallah,

Let us forget for a second about the role of Rasul and Imams...tell us how would you call upon Him (swt) as written on 40:60 ??? Show us the best way...the most accepted ways by Allah swt.

you open your mouth, and articulate your invocation

Ya Allah

You've proved me false because I used my mouth as an intermediary between me and Allah? If that is the type of argument you're concocting, you should know that using my mouth is not an act of worship as long as I don't use my mouth to do something which is considered an act of worship.

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I'm making dua to Allah.

Ya Ali madad is making dua to Ali.

Dua is to supplicate, to invoke, to call upon.

Dua is the essence of worship. Magicians invoke jinns. The Christians invoke Jesus and his mother. The mushrekeen of Nuh's time used to invoke their own pious people.

You've used an act of worship and directed it to other than Allah.

Talking is not an act of worship by itself. To use your mouth is not an act of wroship. to pray is an act of worship. To invoke is an act of worship. To fast is an act of worship.

If I was to go and fast in the name of the Saudi king, and I am telling you that I am doing it to reach Allah, any muslim with half a brain will call me a mushrek, no matter my intentions, because your intentions are useless if your actions are haram in the first place. A mushrek is a mushrek either through his intentions or his actions. If your actions are actions of shirk, you are a mushrek, just like the words of a thief are not going to cover his crime.

Show us one quranic dua where a believer invoked/made dua to/called upon other than Allah for help or for any other need. Shaytan himself called upon Allah and Allah granted him his wish. Shaytan, the most despicable of creatures, didn't even invoke other than Allah when he needed something and Allah gave it to him. Is your excuse valid anymore?

The Prophet (pbuh) called Ali (as) from afar on the day of Khayber - was he committing shirk (naudhobillah)?

And in "your" own book some hadith say Ali is God, others that Gibrael made a mistake. Others that your imams know when they die. Others where the quran is incomplete. Are you going to take theses ahadith over your quran, even if let's say they were "proven" to be sahih? If a man says it's an act of worship to throw yourself in the fire, are you going to do it just because he wears a beard and a certain costume?

And even if that hadith is true, does that mean the Prophet called Ali for help the way you call ali for help? What tells you that he didn't say it without believing that Ali could listen to him, just like one says things in poetry or when one is in love with someone? What if the Prophet never said this, are you going to risk eternity in Hellfire because of a single hadith which goes against the quran?

Why do you people take the hadith over the quran? I am sick of seeing people interpret the Quran according to the hadith, when the Quran is the book of guidance and which should guide the hadith.

and I ask again, what is Allah prohibititing in theses verses??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Ali (as) helped the Prophet (pbuh) numerous times. He also helps, with the permission of Allah, anyone else who asks for his assistance. The evidence for this is fairly evident - on the night of hijrah, the soul of Ali (as) was sold to Allah in exchange for his pleasure (2:207) - now there's no difference between the pleasure of Allah and the pleasure of Ali (as) - and his soul is the property of Allah.

He helped the Prophet . when did help suddenly become equal to invocation?

How does the pleasure of Ali being the pleasure of Allah mean that you can invoke ali for your needs?

Stop insinuating things when clearly there is nothing of the sorts that is mentioned.

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On top of it all, we all know that one cannot change his deen in the grave, and likewise, one cannot augment his good deeds in the grave, and this is why we are always reminded to never wait for tommorow because we never know when death can take us. so we are told to do good deeds while we can. That by itself is a clear sign that one cannot augment or reduce his status while he is in the grave because the reality of the afterlife has become evident to him, just as when Pharoah saw the wrath of Allah, his shahada was of no use.

Knowing this, if people can't even ask for forgiveness for their own selves, what makes you think that they can ask forgiveness for you? Who is more in need for blessings and mercy, one who can still do good deeds and ask for forgiveness or the one who waits for his judgement? Isn't that the reason we say "alla yer7amou" for the dead person? If he was capable of asking for forgiveness, then why do we not say Allah ye7amou after we mention any muslim alive?

Insane.

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yesterday, when I saw all the quranic ayaat quoted by fallah, and the gross mistranslations involved therein, I started to wonder to what weird cultish sect did he belong, with the translations being as bad as they were, and not from any of the normal accepted translators such as pickthall or shakir, I then thought to look through all his previous posts to find out what kind of odd version of islam you are following, to tell you the truth the first thought in my head was those quranists who reject hadith because you are rejecting any and all hadith that go against your messed up mistranslations of the Holy Quran. Looking to all your posts you keep calling yourself a follower of islam, (while at the same time you are calling the Holy Prophet (saw) a sinner (nauthobillah) ) and never said sunni so it left me still wondering to what odd cultish type islam he is following since he is following someones opinions of what the quran is saying verses what the arabic actually says.

Then I decided to go back and google one of your translations and lo and behold I find that you are using a Hilali/Khan translation; here is a brief description

Dar-us-Salam Publications

P.O. Box 22743,

Riyadh 11426, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

this leads us straight to wahabbis/salafis since they are in control of religion is saudia..... here is some further commentary I have found on this 'work';

I strongly recommend that you use an alternate translation of the meaning; the Hilali & Khan work is the least appropriate for dawah work; it comes across to non-Muslims as extremely bigoted. The peace that is Islam is not to be found in it.

all the translations you have provided are more than just exceedingly biased and none are in compliance with the actual arabic of the Holy Quran, these have been improperly translated to reflect someones 'opnion' on what the quran means verses what the actual arabic is saying

Ibn Taymiyyah in his book Qā‘idah jalīlah fit-tawassul wal-wasīlah, commenting on the Qur’ānic verse:

O believers! Fear Allah and seek means (of approach to) His (presence and to His nearness and accessibility).

Qur’ān (al-Mā’idah) 5:35.

writes:

“Offering mediation in the court of Allah springs from one’s faith in the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and in his obedience. And it is by virtue of this obedience and faith that it is obligatory for every believer under any circumstances, outwardly or inwardly, during and after the Prophet’s life, and during his presence or absence. Once this condition is laid down, it cannot be voluntarily discontinued by any person on any excuse or pretext. And the only way to escape the divine wrath and punishment is to make the Holy Prophet (pbuhم) a means of salvation by obeying him and by reposing his trust in him, because the Prophet (pbuh) is the owner of the highest station of distinction in Paradise and he is the intercessor for his followers and the former and the latter ones will envy his position. His stature is the highest in the court of Allah and he is the greatest among the intercessors.

Allah has declared about Mūsā (عليه السلام):

And with Allah, he was highly dignified (and respectable).

Qur’ān (al-AhzāB) 33:69.

And about ‘Īsā (عليه السلام) Allah has declared:

He will enjoy respect and status (both) in this world and the Hereafter.

Qur’ān (Āl-i-‘Imrān) 3:45.

“While the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is blessed with the highest distinction among the prophets, his supplication and intercession will benefit only the person for whom he will pray and intercede. When he prays and intercedes for a person, he will make his prayer and intercession a source of mediation in the presence of Allah, as was the practice of the Companions.”

Ibn Taymiyyah, Qā‘idah jalīlah fit-tawassul wal-wasīlah (pp.5-6)

Once he was questioned whether it was valid or invalid to depend on the mediation of the Prophet (pbuh), he replied:

“All praise for Allah! By the consensus of the Muslims it is quite valid and proper to rely on the means of faith in the Prophet (pbuh), his obedience, his remembrance, his supplication and intercession, similarly his deeds and the deeds of his followers, which they have performed in obedience to the Prophet’s commands. And the Companions used to depend on his mediation during his life on earth and after his death.

Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmū‘ fatāwā (1:140)

Now lets look to this sahih hadith;

أنّ رجلا كان يختلف إلى عثمان بن عفان في حاجة له، وكان لا يلتفت إليه ولا ينظر في حاجته، فلقى ابنَ حنيف فشكى إليه ذلك، فقال له ابنُ حنيف: إئت الميضأة، فتوظأ ثم ائتِ المسجد فصلِّ ركعتين، ثم قل: اللّهمّ إنّي أسألك وأتوجّه إليك بنبيّنا محمد نبيّ الرحمة، يا محمد إنّي أتوجّه بك إلى ربّك أن تقضي حاجتي، وتذكر حاجتك.

فانطلق الرجل فصنع ما قال، ثم أتى باب عثمان فجاءَه البوّاب حتى أخذ بيده، فأُدخِلَ على عثمان فأجلسه معه على الطنفسة فقال: حاجتك؟ فذكر حاجته وقضى له، ثم قال له: ما ذكرتُ حاجتك حتى كانت الساعة، وقال: ما كانت لك من حاجة فاذكرها، ثم إنّ الرجل خرج من عنده فلقى ابن حنيف فقال له: جزاك الله خيراً، ما كان ينظر في حاجتي ولا يلتفت إليّ حتى كلّمتَه فيّ.

فقال ابن حنيف: والله ما كلّمته، ولكن شهدتُ رسول الله، وأتاه ضرير فشكى إليه ذهاب بصره، فقال له النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): إن شئت دعوتُ أو تصبر، فقال: يا رسول الله إنّه ليس لي قائدٌ وقد شقّ عليّ، فقال له النبي: ائت الميضأة فتوضّأْ ثم صلّ ركعتين ثم ادعُ بهذه الدَعَوات. قال ابنُ حنيف: فو اللهِ ما تفرَّقْنا وطال بنا الحديثُ حتى دَخَلَ علينا الرجلُ كأنّه لم يكن به ضر

A man repeatedly visited Uthman ibn Affan (Allah be pleased with him) concerning something he needed, but Uthman paid no attention to him or his need. The man met Ibn Hunayf and complained to him about the matter - this being after the death (wisal) of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and after the caliphates of Abu Bakr and Umar - so Uthman ibn Hunayf, who was one of the Companions who collected hadiths and was learned in the religion of Allah, said: "Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then come to the mosque, perform two rak'as of prayer therein, and say:

'O Allah, I ask You and turn to You through our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I turn through you to my Lord, that He may fulfill my need,' and mention your need. Then come so that I can go with you [to the caliph Uthman]." So the man left and did as he had been told, then went to the door of Uthman ibn Affan, and the doorman came, took him by the hand, brought him to Uthman ibn Affan, and seated him next to him on a cushion. 'Uthman asked, "What do you need?" and the man mentioned what he wanted, and Uthman accomplished it for him, then he said, "I hadn't remembered your need until just now," adding, "Whenever you need something, just mention it."

Then, the man departed, met Uthman ibn Hunayf, and said to him, "May Allah reward you! He didn't see to my need or pay any attention to me until you spoke with him." Uthman ibn Hunayf replied, "By Allah, I didn't speak to him, but I have seen a blind man come to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) and complain to him of the loss of his eyesight. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, "Can you not bear it?' and the man replied, 'O Messenger of Allah, I do not have anyone to lead me around, and it is a great hardship for me.' The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) told him, 'Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then pray two rak'as of prayer and make the supplications.'" Ibn Hunayf went on, "By Allah, we didn't part company or speak long before the man returned to us as if nothing had ever been wrong with him."

The narration is recorded in Sahih Tirmidhi, Vol. 5, p. 119, No. 3578, Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 1. p. 441, No. 1385 and Musnad Ahmad, Vol. 4, p. 138, and in other sources.

Imam Tirmidhi said:

هذا حديث حقٌّ حسنٌ صحيحٌ

This hadith is truly hasan sahih

Imam Ibn Majah said:

هذا حديثٌ صحيحٌ

This hadith is sahih

Imam Rufa'i said in Tawsil ila Aqiqat Tawassul, p. 158:

لا شك أنّ هذا الحديث صحيحٌ ومشهورٌ

There is no doubt that this hadith is sahih and well-known.

We have just read how a Companion did Tawassul of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) AFTER his death! This is not shirk not even according to the salafis/wahabis of old, yet today they are mistranslating the Holy Quran in a vain attempt to support their new found 'veiws' that have no support outside of their fantasies. I find fallah not worth anyones time since he refuses to aknowledge the arabic language of the quran and only aknowledges someones opinion thereof, while at the same time throwing out all hadith that go against this 'opinion'. according to them the quran is full of contradictions and they are attempting to change these 'contradictions' (nauthobillah) through mistranslating the holy quran itself!

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yesterday, when I saw all the quranic ayaat quoted by fallah, and the gross mistranslations involved therein, I started to wonder to what weird cultish sect did he belong, with the translations being as bad as they were, and not from any of the normal accepted translators such as pickthall or shakir, I then thought to look through all his previous posts to find out what kind of odd version of islam you are following, to tell you the truth the first thought in my head was those quranists who reject hadith because you are rejecting any and all hadith that go against your messed up mistranslations of the Holy Quran. Looking to all your posts you keep calling yourself a follower of islam, (while at the same time you are calling the Holy Prophet (saw) a sinner (nauthobillah) ) and never said sunni so it left me still wondering to what odd cultish type islam he is following since he is following someones opinions of what the quran is saying verses what the arabic actually says.

Then I decided to go back and google one of your translations and lo and behold I find that you are using a Hilali/Khan translation; here is a brief description

Dar-us-Salam Publications

P.O. Box 22743,

Riyadh 11426, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

this leads us straight to wahabbis/salafis since they are in control of religion is saudia..... here is some further commentary I have found on this 'work';

I strongly recommend that you use an alternate translation of the meaning; the Hilali & Khan work is the least appropriate for dawah work; it comes across to non-Muslims as extremely bigoted. The peace that is Islam is not to be found in it.

all the translations you have provided are more than just exceedingly biased and none are in compliance with the actual arabic of the Holy Quran, these have been improperly translated to reflect someones 'opnion' on what the quran means verses what the actual arabic is saying

Ibn Taymiyyah in his book Qā‘idah jalīlah fit-tawassul wal-wasīlah, commenting on the Qur’ānic verse:

O believers! Fear Allah and seek means (of approach to) His (presence and to His nearness and accessibility).

Qur’ān (al-Mā’idah) 5:35.

writes:

“Offering mediation in the court of Allah springs from one’s faith in the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and in his obedience. And it is by virtue of this obedience and faith that it is obligatory for every believer under any circumstances, outwardly or inwardly, during and after the Prophet’s life, and during his presence or absence. Once this condition is laid down, it cannot be voluntarily discontinued by any person on any excuse or pretext. And the only way to escape the divine wrath and punishment is to make the Holy Prophet (pbuhم) a means of salvation by obeying him and by reposing his trust in him, because the Prophet (pbuh) is the owner of the highest station of distinction in Paradise and he is the intercessor for his followers and the former and the latter ones will envy his position. His stature is the highest in the court of Allah and he is the greatest among the intercessors.

Allah has declared about Mūsā (عليه السلام):

And with Allah, he was highly dignified (and respectable).

Qur’ān (al-AhzāB) 33:69.

And about ‘Īsā (عليه السلام) Allah has declared:

He will enjoy respect and status (both) in this world and the Hereafter.

Qur’ān (Āl-i-‘Imrān) 3:45.

“While the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is blessed with the highest distinction among the prophets, his supplication and intercession will benefit only the person for whom he will pray and intercede. When he prays and intercedes for a person, he will make his prayer and intercession a source of mediation in the presence of Allah, as was the practice of the Companions.”

Ibn Taymiyyah, Qā‘idah jalīlah fit-tawassul wal-wasīlah (pp.5-6)

Once he was questioned whether it was valid or invalid to depend on the mediation of the Prophet (pbuh), he replied:

“All praise for Allah! By the consensus of the Muslims it is quite valid and proper to rely on the means of faith in the Prophet (pbuh), his obedience, his remembrance, his supplication and intercession, similarly his deeds and the deeds of his followers, which they have performed in obedience to the Prophet’s commands. And the Companions used to depend on his mediation during his life on earth and after his death.

Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmū‘ fatāwā (1:140)

Now lets look to this sahih hadith;

أنّ رجلا كان يختلف إلى عثمان بن عفان في حاجة له، وكان لا يلتفت إليه ولا ينظر في حاجته، فلقى ابنَ حنيف فشكى إليه ذلك، فقال له ابنُ حنيف: إئت الميضأة، فتوظأ ثم ائتِ المسجد فصلِّ ركعتين، ثم قل: اللّهمّ إنّي أسألك وأتوجّه إليك بنبيّنا محمد نبيّ الرحمة، يا محمد إنّي أتوجّه بك إلى ربّك أن تقضي حاجتي، وتذكر حاجتك.

فانطلق الرجل فصنع ما قال، ثم أتى باب عثمان فجاءَه البوّاب حتى أخذ بيده، فأُدخِلَ على عثمان فأجلسه معه على الطنفسة فقال: حاجتك؟ فذكر حاجته وقضى له، ثم قال له: ما ذكرتُ حاجتك حتى كانت الساعة، وقال: ما كانت لك من حاجة فاذكرها، ثم إنّ الرجل خرج من عنده فلقى ابن حنيف فقال له: جزاك الله خيراً، ما كان ينظر في حاجتي ولا يلتفت إليّ حتى كلّمتَه فيّ.

فقال ابن حنيف: والله ما كلّمته، ولكن شهدتُ رسول الله، وأتاه ضرير فشكى إليه ذهاب بصره، فقال له النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): إن شئت دعوتُ أو تصبر، فقال: يا رسول الله إنّه ليس لي قائدٌ وقد شقّ عليّ، فقال له النبي: ائت الميضأة فتوضّأْ ثم صلّ ركعتين ثم ادعُ بهذه الدَعَوات. قال ابنُ حنيف: فو اللهِ ما تفرَّقْنا وطال بنا الحديثُ حتى دَخَلَ علينا الرجلُ كأنّه لم يكن به ضر

A man repeatedly visited Uthman ibn Affan (Allah be pleased with him) concerning something he needed, but Uthman paid no attention to him or his need. The man met Ibn Hunayf and complained to him about the matter - this being after the death (wisal) of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and after the caliphates of Abu Bakr and Umar - so Uthman ibn Hunayf, who was one of the Companions who collected hadiths and was learned in the religion of Allah, said: "Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then come to the mosque, perform two rak'as of prayer therein, and say:

'O Allah, I ask You and turn to You through our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I turn through you to my Lord, that He may fulfill my need,' and mention your need. Then come so that I can go with you [to the caliph Uthman]." So the man left and did as he had been told, then went to the door of Uthman ibn Affan, and the doorman came, took him by the hand, brought him to Uthman ibn Affan, and seated him next to him on a cushion. 'Uthman asked, "What do you need?" and the man mentioned what he wanted, and Uthman accomplished it for him, then he said, "I hadn't remembered your need until just now," adding, "Whenever you need something, just mention it."

Then, the man departed, met Uthman ibn Hunayf, and said to him, "May Allah reward you! He didn't see to my need or pay any attention to me until you spoke with him." Uthman ibn Hunayf replied, "By Allah, I didn't speak to him, but I have seen a blind man come to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) and complain to him of the loss of his eyesight. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, "Can you not bear it?' and the man replied, 'O Messenger of Allah, I do not have anyone to lead me around, and it is a great hardship for me.' The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) told him, 'Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then pray two rak'as of prayer and make the supplications.'" Ibn Hunayf went on, "By Allah, we didn't part company or speak long before the man returned to us as if nothing had ever been wrong with him."

The narration is recorded in Sahih Tirmidhi, Vol. 5, p. 119, No. 3578, Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 1. p. 441, No. 1385 and Musnad Ahmad, Vol. 4, p. 138, and in other sources.

Imam Tirmidhi said:

هذا حديث حقٌّ حسنٌ صحيحٌ

This hadith is truly hasan sahih

Imam Ibn Majah said:

هذا حديثٌ صحيحٌ

This hadith is sahih

Imam Rufa'i said in Tawsil ila Aqiqat Tawassul, p. 158:

لا شك أنّ هذا الحديث صحيحٌ ومشهورٌ

There is no doubt that this hadith is sahih and well-known.

We have just read how a Companion did Tawassul of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) AFTER his death! This is not shirk not even according to the salafis/wahabis of old, yet today they are mistranslating the Holy Quran in a vain attempt to support their new found 'veiws' that have no support outside of their fantasies. I find fallah not worth anyones time since he refuses to aknowledge the arabic language of the quran and only aknowledges someones opinion thereof, while at the same time throwing out all hadith that go against this 'opinion'. according to them the quran is full of contradictions and they are attempting to change these 'contradictions' (nauthobillah) through mistranslating the holy quran itself!

Accusations, accusations, without any proof.

Show us the real translated verses I quoted and let's see if I deliberatly quoted theses verses to misguide people. Show us theses verses in arabic and in english.

and when you do, explain to us what Allah has prohibited in theses verses.

35:14

39:3

7:37

2:186

10:18

6:63

72:18

35:13-14

46:4-6

7:191-194

10:106

72:20

72:22

9:3

39:43-44

32:4

You know what, i won't wait for you to to do it.

http://www.islam101.com/quran/QTP/index.htm

The Quran Translation by M. Pickthall

035.014 If ye pray unto them they hear not your prayer, and if they heard they could not grant it you. On the Day of Resurrection they will disown association with you. None can inform you like Him Who is Aware.

039.003 Surely pure religion is for Allah only. And those who choose protecting friends beside Him (say): We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. Lo! Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Lo! Allah guideth not him who is a liar, an ingrate.

007.037 Who doeth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie concerning Allah or denieth Our tokens. (For such) their appointed portion of the Book (of destiny) reacheth them till, when Our messengers come to gather them, they say: Where (now) is that to which ye cried beside Allah ? They say: They have departed from us. And they testify against themselves that they were disbelievers.

002.186 And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright.

010.018 They worship beside Allah that which neither hurteth them nor profiteth them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Would ye inform Allah of (something) that He knoweth not in the heavens or in the earth ? Praised be He and High Exalted above all that ye associate (with Him)!

And you can go and check the rest of them and see if I deliberatly quoted mistranslated verses.

As for calling me a Quranite, I can hold you responsible for fueling secterianism and for labeling me and accusing me of distorting the verses when clearly you can go and see for yourself that I haven't.

And we still wait for your tafsir of theses verses and to why you reject them.

and for that verse where Allah grants you the permission to call on other than him.

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The Prophet (pbuh) called Ali (as) from afar on the day of Khayber - was he committing shirk (naudhobillah)?

Where was the Prophet (pbuh) and Imam Ali a.s?

I apologise if I have missed this, but aside from Quranic interpretations and hadiths on the Prophet (pbuh), do we have any hadiths, shia hadiths, that either explicitly state the Prophet (pbuh) or Imams (as) telling their companions to call on them? E.g. is there any hadith or narration or historical record of a sahaba saying Ya Ali Madad with the intention to reach Allah swt through him - after his 'death'?

I want specific narrations etc, clearly with that specific intention.

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Where was the Prophet (pbuh) and Imam Ali a.s?

I apologise if I have missed this, but aside from Quranic interpretations and hadiths on the Prophet (pbuh), do we have any hadiths, shia hadiths, that either explicitly state the Prophet (pbuh) or Imams (as) telling their companions to call on them? E.g. is there any hadith or narration or historical record of a sahaba saying Ya Ali Madad with the intention to reach Allah swt through him - after his 'death'?

I want specific narrations etc, clearly with that specific intention.

Imam Ali (as) has already stated it as clearly as possible:

Imam Ali's advice to his son

"He Who owns the treasures of the Heavens and the Earth has given you permission to call upon Him, and promised you a favorable response. He has ordered you to ask Him and He will give you, to seek His mercy and He will extend it. He has not made any barriers or intermediaries between you and Him. Nothing stops you when you commit a sin from repenting and going back to Him."

"When you call upon Him, He listens to you. When you whisper to Him, He knows your secret. When you tell Him of your need and confide in Him your want, when you complain of your worries and ask Him to relieve you, when you seek His support in every matter, and beg Him access to the treasures of mercy that no one else can give – in terms of long life, good health, and abundance in means of livelihood; He will put in your hands the key of His treasures in response to the request He has graciously allowed you to submit. You may, as you wish, through supplication, tap the gates of His bounties and purify yourself in the flood of His mercy."

Prophet asked Imam Ali for help in a battle. Imam Ali too was helped in the battle of Badr by three thousand angels as the Quran itself states (below). Does that mean we say 'Ya Malaika Madad (O angels help us)"! It is up to Allah to find the means to help the needy. There is not a single verse or hadith out there where Imam Ali or the Prophet have stated that Allah has assigned them as helpers (in the physical sense) of Muslims from then to eternity or commanded Muslims to ask the Imams or Prophet for help (naudhubillah).

“Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah; thus May ye show your gratitude. § Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down? § "Yea, - if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels Making a terrific onslaught. §” - Al-i-Imran 3:123–125

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And in "your" own book some hadith say Ali is God, others that Gibrael made a mistake. Others that your imams know when they die. Others where the quran is incomplete. Are you going to take theses ahadith over your quran, even if let's say they were "proven" to be sahih? If a man says it's an act of worship to throw yourself in the fire, are you going to do it just because he wears a beard and a certain costume?

Your understanding of the Qur'an is wrong. The Prophet (pbuh) called Ali (as) from afar on the day of Khaybar in order that victory may be granted to the Muslims, this is recorded in books written by Muslims of all schools of thought, nothing to do with hadith, this is a historical incident.

He helped the Prophet . when did help suddenly become equal to invocation?

So Ali (as) is good enough to help the Prophet (pbuh) and the companions, and yet he's not good enough for you? And help is help, where did invocation come from?

How does the pleasure of Ali being the pleasure of Allah mean that you can invoke ali for your needs?

The nafs of Ali (as) is owned by Allah. There's no difference between calling Ali or Allah since the nafs of Ali is owned by Allah.
Knowing this, if people can't even ask for forgiveness for their own selves, what makes you think that they can ask forgiveness for you? Who is more in need for blessings and mercy, one who can still do good deeds and ask for forgiveness or the one who waits for his judgement? Isn't that the reason we say "alla yer7amou" for the dead person? If he was capable of asking for forgiveness, then why do we not say Allah ye7amou after we mention any muslim alive?

The Holy Ahlul Bayt (as) are not like you, they are free of sins, mistakes and defects.

Insane.

We've realised you are already.

“Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah; thus May ye show your gratitude. § Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down? § "Yea, - if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels Making a terrific onslaught. §” - Al-i-Imran 3:123–125

That is actually a very good quote. According to fallah's weak and baseless understanding of Tawheed, the angels helping the Muslims on the day of Badr is shirk.

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(bismillah)

Prophet asked Imam Ali for help in a battle. Imam Ali too was helped in the battle of Badr by three thousand angels as the Quran itself states (below). Does that mean we say 'Ya Malaika Madad (O angels help us)"! It is up to Allah to find the means to help the needy. There is not a single verse or hadith out there where Imam Ali or the Prophet have stated that Allah has assigned them as helpers (in the physical sense) of Muslims from then to eternity or commanded Muslims to ask the Imams or Prophet for help (naudhubillah).

Aside from saying "Ya Ali Madad" what is your view about invoking Allah in the following manner:

O Allah, I beseech Thee, and turn towards Thee, through Thy Prophet, the Prophet of Mercy, Muhammad, may Allah Bless him and his Progeny, and grant them peace. O Abul-Qasim, O Messenger of Allah O guide of mercy, O intercessor of the community, O our chief, O our master, We turn towards thee, seek thy intercession and advocacy before Allah, we put before you our open need; O intimate of Allah, Stand by us when Allah sits in judgement over us.

There is evidence from both Sunni and Shia sources about the permissibility of Tawassul in this manner.

What is your understanding?

Thanks.

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And we still wait for your tafsir of theses verses and to why you reject them.

(bismillah)

The following Ayah of the Holy Qur'an as part of their attempt to discourage Tawassul:

íõæáöÌõ Çááøóíúáó Ýöí ÇáäøóåóÇÑö æóíõæáöÌõ ÇáäøóåóÇÑó Ýöí Çááøóíúáö æóÓóÎøóÑó ÇáÔøóãúÓó æóÇáúÞóãóÑó ßõáøñ íóÌúÑöí áöÃóÌóáò ãøõÓóãøðì Ðóáößõãõ Çááøóåõ ÑóÈøõßõãú áóåõ Çáúãõáúßõ æóÇáøóÐöíäó ÊóÏúÚõæäó ãöä Ïõæäöåö ãóÇ íóãúáößõæäó ãöä ÞöØúãöíÑò

Åöä ÊóÏúÚõæåõãú áóÇ íóÓúãóÚõæÇ ÏõÚóÇÁßõãú æóáóæú ÓóãöÚõæÇ ãóÇ ÇÓúÊóÌóÇÈõæÇ áóßõãú æóíóæúãó ÇáúÞöíóÇãóÉö íóßúÝõÑõæäó ÈöÔöÑúßößõãú æóáóÇ íõäóÈøöÆõßó ãöËúáõ ÎóÈöíÑò

He merges Night into Day, and he merges Day into Night, and he has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law): each one runs its course for a term appointed. Such is Allah your Lord: to Him belongs all Dominion. And those whom ye invoke besides Him have not the least power.

If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer your (prayer). On the Day of Judgment they will reject your "Partnership". and none, (O man!) can tell thee (the Truth) like the One Who is acquainted with all things. (35:13-14)

This Ayah refers to the polytheists who worship idols instead of the One and Only God and supplicate to these man-made objects in their hour of need. Allah says here that these idols do not own even a straw, so how can they grant anything to those who worship and prostrate before them? No matter how fervently these idols are called upon, they do not listen since they are inanimate objects, and suppose even if they were to listen, they cannot answer since they do not have the tongues.

As is crystal clear for any discerning person, it has no connection whatsoever concerning tawassul to the Prophet (s) and the Infallible Imams (A) or saints.

First and foremost, it is a gross mistake to place those who seek tawassul in the same category as the polytheists, since idolaters seek their needs from idols and not from the Almighty Creator. But those who make tawassul beseech Allah for their needs and regard Prophet Muhammad (s) as a wasilah or means for the acceptance of their supplications, since he is the Messenger of Allah. Those who seek tawassul are like guests who approach the host for some of their needs, and at times request the members of the household or friends of the hosts who have been appointed to serve the guests, since they consider everything to be the favour of the host

Secondly, it is a manifest error to equate with idols the Prophet (s) who has been sent by Allah as a divine sign and is called Habib-Allah (Friend of God) by all Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (s) is alive in his grave and his life in the intermediary world (barzakh) is superior to the life of the martyrs, since he hears the voices of those who send blessings upon him (see hadith I have quoted before).

--------

Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÊóÏúÚõæäó ãöä Ïõæäö Çááøåö ÚöÈóÇÏñ ÃóãúËóÇáõßõãú ÝóÇÏúÚõæåõãú ÝóáúíóÓúÊóÌöíÈõæÇú áóßõãú Åöä ßõäÊõãú ÕóÇÏöÞöíäó

Verily those whom ye call upon besides Allah are servants like unto you: Call upon them, and let them listen to your prayer, if ye are (indeed) truthful! (7:194)

The above ayat is sited as proof of non-permissibility of tawassul to the Prophet (s).

All exegetes of the Holy Quran have unanimously stated that this Ayah refers to the idol-worshippers who associate man-made objects with God in creation and in administering the affairs of the world.

In contrast, tawassul is made by those who never regard the Prophets as partners of Allah in creation and in running world affairs, and neither do they worship the Last Prophet (s), since every day several times they bear testimony that Prophet Muhammad (s) is the servant and Messenger of Allah (ash-hadu anna Muhammadan 'abduhu wa rasuluh).

As the Holy Qur'an says, Prophet Muhammad (s) has been sent as mercy to the entire creation (21:107) and is a means of acceptance of supplications, so it is natural for us to request him to supplicate and intercede (shafa'at) with Allah for us.

---------------------

ÃóáóÇ áöáøóåö ÇáÏøöíäõ ÇáúÎóÇáöÕõ æóÇáøóÐöíäó ÇÊøóÎóÐõæÇ ãöä Ïõæäöåö ÃóæúáöíóÇÁ ãóÇ äóÚúÈõÏõåõãú ÅöáøóÇ áöíõÞóÑøöÈõæäóÇ Åöáóì Çááøóåö ÒõáúÝóì Åöäøó Çááøóåó íóÍúßõãõ Èóíúäóåõãú Ýöí ãóÇ åõãú Ýöíåö íóÎúÊóáöÝõæäó Åöäøó Çááøóåó áóÇ íóåúÏöí ãóäú åõæó ßóÇÐöÈñ ßóÝøóÇÑñ

Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors other than Allah (say): "We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah." Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful. (39:3)

An argument is made that the polytheists also testified to the Oneness of Allah but as the Holy Qur'an states, they tried to justify their worshiping of idols by saying We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah. This is similar to the actions of those who make tawassul to those in the graves in order to seek proximity to Allah.

According to the books of religions and the testimony of idol-worshippers, hundreds of millions of whom live in India, China and Japan, idolatry is based on the theory that the creation of the universe and even the deities which are worshipped, have as their source the same Almighty God, but since He is beyond comprehension there is no other choice but to worship some of His closest servants such as angels, genies and saints so that they make intercession (shafa'at) and people may reach the proximity of God through them. In the opinion of the polytheists, angels are like the builder to whom the owner of the house has entrusted the building and hence intercession (shafa'at) is according to His discretion.

But in the Holy Quran tawassul to the Prophets is in the manner of an intermediary and is not something independent, and for this reason it has not been considered as shirk or polytheism. Similarly, the polytheists have been reproached in the Holy Quran not because of seeking intercession (shafa'at) but because of worshipping other than God.

----------

æóíóÚúÈõÏõæäó ãöä Ïõæäö Çááøåö ãóÇ áÇó íóÖõÑøõåõãú æóáÇó íóäÝóÚõåõãú æóíóÞõæáõæäó åóÜÄõáÇÁ ÔõÝóÚóÇÄõäóÇ ÚöäÏó Çááøåö Þõáú ÃóÊõäóÈøöÆõæäó Çááøåó ÈöãóÇ áÇó íóÚúáóãõ Ýöí ÇáÓøóãóÇæóÇÊö æóáÇó Ýöí ÇáÃóÑúÖö ÓõÈúÍóÇäóåõ æóÊóÚóÇáóì ÚóãøóÇ íõÔúÑößõæäó

They serve, besides Allah, things that hurt them not nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do ye indeed inform Allah of something He knows not, in the heavens or on earth?- Glory to Him! and far is He above the partners they ascribe (to Him)!"(10:18)

It is claimed that the above sited Ayah of the Holy Quran as another instance of non-permissibility of tawassul, saying that Muslims who uphold tawassul to the Prophet (s) are like idolaters who seek intercession from objects which are of no use:

First, this Ayah has no connection with Muslims since they do not worship any thing or object except Allah.

Secondly, as said earlier, addressing the Prophet is not meant to worship him but to request him for supplication and intercession.

Thirdly, it is a matter of surprise to compare the Prophet to those whom the Holy Quran says "can neither hurt them nor profit them," since the fact cannot be denied that obedience to the Prophet is to the benefit of Muslims and disobedience to him, whether during his lifetime or after his death, is certainly detrimental to them. Similarly, the supplication and intercession of the Prophet for those who are eligible, whether in worldly life or in the Hereafter, is profitable for the Muslims as unanimously confirmed by the scholars.

Fourthly, it is a grave error to equate the belief of the Muslims that Prophet Muhammad (s) is the intercessor, with the belief of the polytheists "these (idols) are our intercessors with Allah," since God has explicitly rejected their claim as lies.

"...those who take guardians besides Him, (say) we worship them not but (in order) that they make us near to Allah; surely Allah will judge between them about what they differ; surely Allah does not guide the one who is a liar and an ingrate." (39:3)

As is clear from the wordings of the Holy Quran the polytheists who make such claims are liars. They are not conscious of God, neither do they worship Him or prostrate to Him nor have they any faith in their Unseen Creator:

"And when it is said to them prostrate you in obeisance to the Rahman (the Beneficent God), they say: Who is Rahman? Shall we prostrate in obeisance unto what you bid us? And it (only) adds to their flight (from the truth)." (25:60)

WS

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(bismillah)

Is every DUA = Worship?

PROOF FROM QURAN.

Every supplication is not a form of worship or even the spirit of worship, since the root of the word du'a (supplication) is da'wat, a word which along with its derivatives occurs frequently in the Holy Quran.

For instance: "...let us call (nad'u) our sons... (3:61)"

and

.....لَا تَجْعَلُوا دُعَاء الرَّسُولِ بَيْنَكُمْ كَدُعَاء بَعْضِكُم بَعْضًا

"Make you not the addressing (Dua) of the Prophet among you like your addressing one another..." (24:63)

As could be discerned, in most of the Ayas the word du'a means to call or address. Accordingly neither every nida (call) is dua nor every dua is ibadat (worship).

In other words Dua (supplication) becomes Worship when the rules of worship such as servitude and submissiveness to Allah are observed with acknowledgement of the over lordship of the Almighty Creator. What connection does this have with Tawassul and tabarruk to the Prophet (S) and the Infallible Imams (A) and requesting them for help?

Thus, the narration al-dua huwa al-ibadah (supplication is among the acts of worship), does not necessarily mean that every supplication is a form of worship.

WS

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Your understanding of the Qur'an is wrong. The Prophet (pbuh) called Ali (as) from afar on the day of Khaybar in order that victory may be granted to the Muslims, this is recorded in books written by Muslims of all schools of thought, nothing to do with hadith, this is a historical incident.

That is actually a very good quote. According to fallah's weak and baseless understanding of Tawheed, the angels helping the Muslims on the day of Badr is shirk.

1. Show us exactly what the books say.

2. That's a completely fallacious argument.

3. Any historical evidence, hadith of any sahaba doing this? In all the persecution of the shias throughout history, especially of the companions of Ali a.s., did any call upon Allah through Ali? There must be at least one example?

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3. Any historical evidence, hadith of any sahaba doing this? In all the persecution of the shias throughout history, especially of the companions of Ali a.s., did any call upon Allah through Ali? There must be at least one example?

(bismillah)

Here is your answer:

O Allah, I beseech Thee, and turn towards Thee, through Thy Prophet, the Prophet of Mercy, Muhammad, may Allah Bless him and his Progeny, and grant them peace.

O Abul-Qasim, O Messenger of Allah O guide of mercy, O intercessor of the community, O our chief, O our master, We turn towards thee, seek thy intercession and advocacy before Allah, we put before you our open need; O intimate of Allah, Stand by us when Allah sits in judgement over us.

O Abul Hasan, O Commander of the Faithful, O ‘Ali, son of Abu Talib, O decisive argument of Allah over mankind, O our chief, O our master, We turn towards thee, seek thy intercession and advocacy before Allah, we put before you our open need, O intimate of Allah, Stand by us when Allah sits in judgement over us......"

(Part of "Dua Tawassul" attributed to Imam Hasan al-Askari (as) by Shaikh Abu Jafar Tusi (AR) in his book Misbah)

------------

Note that the theme of asking Allah using Tawassul is same as seen in Sunni collections of hadith as I have quoted before.

WS

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(bismillah)

QUESTION:

One of my friend ask me to ask this question to you brothers:

You know most of the time when Muslims are in trouble or they want to do a difficult chore they say "Ya Ali Mudad". What is the reason or any religious

thing that we don't know. Can you explain in detail any reason about this.

ANSWER:

This is a very important question again dealt with in the recently published translation of the Contemporary Fatwas of Ayatullah Seestani (May Allah Protect him and Preserve him).

The propriety of saying "Ya Ali Madad" depends entirely upon the intention of the person who says it.

If the help of Hadhrat Ali (A.S.) or any of the other ma'sumeen is sought as an intercessor and a 'waseelah' envisaged by the Holy Qur'an in Ayah 35 of Suratul Maidah then not only there can be no objection but it would be the right and proper thing to do.

But if help is sought in the belief that the person whose help sought shares with Allah the right to create, sustain and protect then the call for help might amount to 'shirk'.

The Ayah referred to above reads as follows:

"O you who believe ! Be mindful of your Duty to Allah, and seek a way to approach him ((wab tagoo ilayhi waseelah).................."

With salaams and du'aas from an humble servant of Ahlul Bayt and their followers, and with a request to be remembered by you in your prayers,

Bashir Rahim

http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/aalimnetwork/msg00322.html

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(bismillah)

^^ fallah will simply ignore this hadith.

The opinion of Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah dont mean much.

He has his own understanding of ayats.

WS

Bismillah

salaam

that was not for fallah's benefit, anyone who follows a group who will sit and twist the meaning of the arabic that badly to make it fit their own veiws, will never believe anything, not even the holy quran when it disagrees with them. (did you notice those translations he was using? that was ridiculous!) that was simply posted for the benefit of others who care to learn.

wasalaam

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you open your mouth, and articulate your invocation

Ya Allah

You've proved me false because I used my mouth as an intermediary between me and Allah? If that is the type of argument you're concocting, you should know that using my mouth is not an act of worship as long as I don't use my mouth to do something which is considered an act of worship.

---

I'm making dua to Allah.

Ya Ali madad is making dua to Ali.

Dua is to supplicate, to invoke, to call upon.

Dua is the essence of worship. Magicians invoke jinns. The Christians invoke Jesus and his mother. The mushrekeen of Nuh's time used to invoke their own pious people.

You've used an act of worship and directed it to other than Allah.

Talking is not an act of worship by itself. To use your mouth is not an act of wroship. to pray is an act of worship. To invoke is an act of worship. To fast is an act of worship.

If I was to go and fast in the name of the Saudi king, and I am telling you that I am doing it to reach Allah, any muslim with half a brain will call me a mushrek, no matter my intentions, because your intentions are useless if your actions are haram in the first place. A mushrek is a mushrek either through his intentions or his actions. If your actions are actions of shirk, you are a mushrek, just like the words of a thief are not going to cover his crime.

Show us one quranic dua where a believer invoked/made dua to/called upon other than Allah for help or for any other need. Shaytan himself called upon Allah and Allah granted him his wish. Shaytan, the most despicable of creatures, didn't even invoke other than Allah when he needed something and Allah gave it to him. Is your excuse valid anymore?

The reason I asked you on how to call upon Allah swt because I wanted to know your references and understanding on how to call upon Allah swt.

We read in Qur'an

إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ {5}

[shakir 1:5] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ {6}

[shakir 1:6] Keep us on the right path.

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ {7}

[shakir 1:7] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

You gave us the references from youself and justified it with "syaitan". Even syaitans call upon Allah swt directly and Allah swt accepted the request!

Whereas Allah swt clearly stated in Surah Al-Fatiha...if we want to serve/worship/can upon Allah swt, WE HAVE TO BE IN THE PATH OF THOSE WHOM Allah has blessed.

The blessed persons (Rasul and Imams whom Allah swt bless them all the times as stated in qur'an 33:56) know well how to address to Allah swt. Instead, you gave example of syaitan whom Allah swt has brought curse and went astray forever.

WE ALWAYS MAINTAIN THAT Blessed Persons (Rasul and Imams) know exactly how to call upon Allah swt. We follow their method...the method how to address Allah swt correctly...and NOT the method that Syaitan used to address Allah swt. Even Fir'aun addressed Allah swt...but the method was not approved to be followed by the ummah. Syaitans and Fir'aun methods was blended with pride and kufr in their souls.

THE MAIN REASON we call our Prophet and Imams to ask on our behalf because we know that our souls are not clean and we know that within our souls there maybe not enough humility...we don't want when we call Allah swt, and it resembles in the slightest amount which is similar to Fir'aun or syaitans way of calling upon Allah swt. We want it to be the carbon copy how Rasul and Imams would call Allah swt.

We belief that Rasul and Imams will intercede on our behalf with the request to Allah swt that is good for our ownselves. We know they will ask what is good for us. However, if we call straight to Allah swt and request Allah based on our own method and understanding, Allah swt may grant that request and it may not be good our ownselves. Many hindus, Buddists and none muslims also request from Allah swt (in their own way) and Allah granted their request...but at the end that would not be what Allah want out of us (according to Surah Al-Fatiha). All of us were taught how to address Allah swt by our Imams.

Yes...Allah is Rahman...to all humans and will grant their request if they ask. But Allah want us to request the right things. That is reason why we have many duas from Ahlulbayt of Rasul. They taught us how to correctly address Allah swt in various situations. But the situations keep changing based on time and individual situations. If that the case, we can go direct to them and ask them for intecession and call for Allah swt on our behalf. Certainly Rasul and Imams know how to ask Allah swt what is good for themselves and for us (they are closer to us than our own nafs). If they intercede for us, they will ask Allah swt as if it is for themselves. That is what all mukmins want for themselves...we follow, act and behave like the Prophet and Imams.

When we see a mukmin, we see the Light of our Prophet in them (of cause much less i brightness) therefore we respect them, feel connected and may ask them to make dua for us because the Light that is presence in their heart and soul. However, we will NEVER go to King Saud to ask him to make duas for us. We see something else in King Saud and that is not resembling the Light of Prophet.

Layman

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The reason I asked you on how to call upon Allah swt because I wanted to know your references and understanding on how to call upon Allah swt.

We read in Qur'an

إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ {5}

[shakir 1:5] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ {6}

[shakir 1:6] Keep us on the right path.

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ {7}

[shakir 1:7] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

You gave us the references from youself and justified it with "syaitan". Even syaitans call upon Allah swt directly and Allah swt accepted the request!

Whereas Allah swt clearly stated in Surah Al-Fatiha...if we want to serve/worship/can upon Allah swt, WE HAVE TO BE IN THE PATH OF THOSE WHOM Allah has blessed.

The blessed persons (Rasul and Imams whom Allah swt bless them all the times as stated in qur'an 33:56) know well how to address to Allah swt. Instead, you gave example of syaitan whom Allah swt has brought curse and went astray forever.

WE ALWAYS MAINTAIN THAT Blessed Persons (Rasul and Imams) know exactly how to call upon Allah swt. We follow their method...the method how to address Allah swt correctly...and NOT the method that Syaitan used to address Allah swt. Even Fir'aun addressed Allah swt...but the method was not approved to be followed by the ummah. Syaitans and Fir'aun methods was blended with pride and kufr in their souls.

THE MAIN REASON we call our Prophet and Imams to ask on our behalf because we know that our souls are not clean and we know that within our souls there maybe not enough humility...we don't want when we call Allah swt, and it resembles in the slightest amount which is similar to Fir'aun or syaitans way of calling upon Allah swt. We want it to be the carbon copy how Rasul and Imams would call Allah swt.

We belief that Rasul and Imams will intercede on our behalf with the request to Allah swt that is good for our ownselves. We know they will ask what is good for us. However, if we call straight to Allah swt and request Allah based on our own method and understanding, Allah swt may grant that request and it may not be good our ownselves. Many hindus, Buddists and none muslims also request from Allah swt (in their own way) and Allah granted their request...but at the end that would not be what Allah want out of us (according to Surah Al-Fatiha). All of us were taught how to address Allah swt by our Imams.

Yes...Allah is Rahman...to all humans and will grant their request if they ask. But Allah want us to request the right things. That is reason why we have many duas from Ahlulbayt of Rasul. They taught us how to correctly address Allah swt in various situations. But the situations keep changing based on time and individual situations. If that the case, we can go direct to them and ask them for intecession and call for Allah swt on our behalf. Certainly Rasul and Imams know how to ask Allah swt what is good for themselves and for us (they are closer to us than our own nafs). If they intercede for us, they will ask Allah swt as if it is for themselves. That is what all mukmins want for themselves...we follow, act and behave like the Prophet and Imams.

When we see a mukmin, we see the Light of our Prophet in them (of cause much less i brightness) therefore we respect them, feel connected and may ask them to make dua for us because the Light that is presence in their heart and soul. However, we will NEVER go to King Saud to ask him to make duas for us. We see something else in King Saud and that is not resembling the Light of Prophet.

Layman

Is the soul of shaytan cleaner than yours? Why then did Allah accept his dua, and you think Allah won't accept yours unless you go through a pious person? And how do you turn the verses of fatiha into something else? Shaytan was forsaken because of his arrogance, not because he didn't call other than Allah, what you're saying makes no sense at all.

Socrates, one of your previous sentences was very oddly constructed, something that sounded like the trinity of the Christians.

---

As for the copy-pasta of bro Orion, I'll only have to say that if "muslims" are doing what the mushrekeens are doing, the verse also applies to them. It's not because Allah talks to a certain group of people that it automatically means it can't apply to someone else.

And I ask you, if you claim that not every dua is worship, then please tell me how can you differentiate between a normal dua and a dua of worship.

Can I invoke a pious jinn? Allat? Uzza? King of saudi arabia? The sun? Buddha? the pious people that were made idols in the time of Nuh? the angels?

And finally, do the people you invoke listen to everyone everywhere? Do they have to speak outloud or do they know the wispers of the person? What if the person makes a dua to them in his thoughts, can theses pious people hear them? Can they respond to everyone at the same time? Can they ignore your call? So basically, through your invocation, are you attributing to them knowledge, presence and effect that oddly resembles that of the divine names of Allah?

What makes you think that theses people on earth weren't able to listen to sounds from too far away can, after their death, listen to every call on earth?

And another important question, what happens if you think someone was a good person but he was a hypocrite and you ask him to pray to Allah? Will Allah respond to your dua, will it be shirk, or are you just losing your precious time, without knowing it?

and what is the clear proof for all of theses questions?

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The reason I asked you on how to call upon Allah swt because I wanted to know your references and understanding on how to call upon Allah swt.

We read in Qur'an

ÅöíøóÇßó äóÚúÈõÏõ æóÅöíøóÇßó äóÓúÊóÚöíäõ {5}

[shakir 1:5] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

ÇåúÏöäóÇ ÇáÕøöÑóÇØó ÇáúãõÓúÊóÞöíãó {6}

[shakir 1:6] Keep us on the right path.

ÕöÑóÇØó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÃóäúÚóãúÊó Úóáóíúåöãú ÛóíúÑö ÇáúãóÛúÖõæÈö Úóáóíúåöãú æóáóÇ ÇáÖøóÇáøöíäó {7}

[shakir 1:7] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

You gave us the references from youself and justified it with "syaitan". Even syaitans call upon Allah swt directly and Allah swt accepted the request!

Whereas Allah swt clearly stated in Surah Al-Fatiha...if we want to serve/worship/can upon Allah swt, WE HAVE TO BE IN THE PATH OF THOSE WHOM Allah has blessed.

The blessed persons (Rasul and Imams whom Allah swt bless them all the times as stated in qur'an 33:56) know well how to address to Allah swt. Instead, you gave example of syaitan whom Allah swt has brought curse and went astray forever.

WE ALWAYS MAINTAIN THAT Blessed Persons (Rasul and Imams) know exactly how to call upon Allah swt. We follow their method...the method how to address Allah swt correctly...and NOT the method that Syaitan used to address Allah swt. Even Fir'aun addressed Allah swt...but the method was not approved to be followed by the ummah. Syaitans and Fir'aun methods was blended with pride and kufr in their souls.

THE MAIN REASON we call our Prophet and Imams to ask on our behalf because we know that our souls are not clean and we know that within our souls there maybe not enough humility...we don't want when we call Allah swt, and it resembles in the slightest amount which is similar to Fir'aun or syaitans way of calling upon Allah swt. We want it to be the carbon copy how Rasul and Imams would call Allah swt.

We belief that Rasul and Imams will intercede on our behalf with the request to Allah swt that is good for our ownselves. We know they will ask what is good for us. However, if we call straight to Allah swt and request Allah based on our own method and understanding, Allah swt may grant that request and it may not be good our ownselves. Many hindus, Buddists and none muslims also request from Allah swt (in their own way) and Allah granted their request...but at the end that would not be what Allah want out of us (according to Surah Al-Fatiha). All of us were taught how to address Allah swt by our Imams.

Yes...Allah is Rahman...to all humans and will grant their request if they ask. But Allah want us to request the right things. That is reason why we have many duas from Ahlulbayt of Rasul. They taught us how to correctly address Allah swt in various situations. But the situations keep changing based on time and individual situations. If that the case, we can go direct to them and ask them for intecession and call for Allah swt on our behalf. Certainly Rasul and Imams know how to ask Allah swt what is good for themselves and for us (they are closer to us than our own nafs). If they intercede for us, they will ask Allah swt as if it is for themselves. That is what all mukmins want for themselves...we follow, act and behave like the Prophet and Imams.

When we see a mukmin, we see the Light of our Prophet in them (of cause much less i brightness) therefore we respect them, feel connected and may ask them to make dua for us because the Light that is presence in their heart and soul. However, we will NEVER go to King Saud to ask him to make duas for us. We see something else in King Saud and that is not resembling the Light of Prophet.

Layman

Brother with all due respect you post implements that asking directly from Allah is the way of the Shaitan. And that Shia dont ask Allah directly. This is not true.

It also gives the impression that the Holy Imams (as) should us a way to ask Allah which is not direct.

-But the fact of the matter is that Duas taught by the Holy Imams (as) address Allah DIRECTLY.

-And in practice most of the Shia ask Allah DIRECTLY.

Also note that Wahabis/Salafis/Ahly Hadith of today dont care much about King Saud of today.

WS

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Brother with all due respect you post implements that asking directly from Allah is the way of the Shaitan. And that Shia dont ask Allah directly. This is not true.

It also gives the impression that the Holy Imams (as) should us a way to ask Allah which is not direct.

-But the fact of the matter is that Duas taught by the Holy Imams (as) address Allah DIRECTLY.

-And in practice most of the Shia ask Allah DIRECTLY.

Also note that Wahabis/Salafis/Ahly Hadith of today dont care much about King Saud of today.

WS

adding to that, "Allah swt may grant that request and it may not be good our ownselves"

Allah will not grant you a thing that is bad for you if you are a believer. That's why some of our duas are not accepted or postponed. Because we ask Allah something that may hurt us, so he does not give it to us.

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(bismillah)

As for the copy-pasta of bro Orion, I'll only have to say that if "muslims" are doing what the mushrekeens are doing, the verse also applies to them. It's not because Allah talks to a certain group of people that it automatically means it can't apply to someone else.

They were polytheists while we are monotheists. They did not believe in Allah like we do.

And I ask you, if you claim that not every dua is worship, then please tell me how can you differentiate between a normal dua and a dua of worship.

Dua (supplication) becomes Worship when the rules of worship such as servitude and submissiveness to Allah are observed with acknowledgement of the over lordship of the Almighty Creator. If someone does dua to anyone other than Allah with a similar servitude, submissiveness and over lordship it would be as if he is worshiping that person and not Allah.

Can I invoke a pious jinn? Allat? Uzza? King of saudi arabia? The sun? Buddha?

Invoke them for what.

-do magic.

-give you money and status.

-or do dua on your behalf to Allah.

Naturally Uzza? King of saudi arabia? The sun? are the condemned ones. So it would be highly unlikely that Allah would accept your duas. Unless if He wants to test you or be generous to you anyway.

Having said that it is very unappropriated to compare Rasool Allah (pbuh), Holy Ahlul Bait (as) Sahaba (ra) or Shohoda with the likes of Allat? Uzza? King of saudi arabia? The sun?

Regaring pious jinns or Buddah I cant say anything. Who knows if Buddha was a prophet among 124000 prophets and his teachings were changed by people????? So I dont know.

And finally, do the people you invoke listen to everyone everywhere? Do they have to speak outloud or do they know the wispers of the person? What if the person makes a dua to them in his thoughts, can theses pious people hear them? Can they respond to everyone at the same time? Can they ignore your call? So basically, through your invocation, are you attributing to them knowledge and presence that oddly resembles that of the divine names of Allah?

The hadith speaks for itself. And this time I am quoting from Sunan Abu Dawud:

Book 3, Number 1042:

Narrated Aws ibn Aws:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Among the most excellent of your days is Friday; on it Adam was created, on it he died, on it the last trumpet will be blown, and on it the shout will be made, so invoke more blessings on me that day, for
your blessings will be submitted to me.
The people asked: Apostle of
Allah
,
how can it be that our blessings will be submitted to you while your body is decayed?
He replied:
Allah
, the Exalted, has prohibited the earth from consuming the bodies of Prophets.

This hadith proves that the Allah had designed a way so that the blessings could reach Rasool Allah (S) during his lifetime and also after he passed away.

What makes you think that theses people on earth weren't able to listen to sounds from too far away can, after their death, listen to every call on earth?

Thats an assumption on your part.

Allah can grant powers to whomever He wishes.

Read QURAN.

Prophet Yaqoob could smell his son, Prophet Yousuf (as) from far away.

Prophet Isa (as) knew what was kept in peoples houses.

Asif Barqiyah could move the throne of Queen Saba shorter than the blink of an eye.

Quran has many examples of powers Allah had granted into his pious servants. Is that all Shirk.

I think your understanding of Allah is too narrow. You think Allah is someone who could listen to far away and anyone else having that power automatically means he is god. Nowadays even you and I can losten to things far away through radio, tv, phones, etc.

WS

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