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In the Name of God بسم الله

Saying Ali Madad

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Letter No. 31 in Nahjul Balagha:

“Trust in Allah and let your mind seek His protection in every calamity and suffering; because you will thus entrust yourself and your affairs to the Best Trustee and the Mightiest Guardian. Do not seek help and protection of any body but Allah. Reserve your prayers, your requests, your solicitations, your supplications and your entreaties to Him and Him alone. “Therefore the best thing for you to do is to seek guidance of the one who has created you, Who maintains and nourishes you, Who has given you a balanced mind and normally working body. Your prayers should be reserved for Him only, your requests and solicitations should be to Him alone. You should be afraid of Him and no body else. You beg of Him to grant you your heart’s desires; you lay before him the secrets of your heart; you tell him about all the calamities that have befallen you and misfortunes that face you, and beseech His help to overcome them. Think over it that by simply granting you the privilege of praying for His favors and Mercies, He has handed over the keys of His Treasures to you. Whenever you are in need, you pray and He confers His favors and Blessings.”

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Thank you. Question is resolved now.

Ya Allah bi Haqq Muhammed wa aali Muhammed guide us to the Right Path and keep us along it till we meet You and You are pleased with us, ya Ar'hem Ar-Rahimeen.

Ali Adams

God > infinity

Ameen, InsyaAllah3X

Layman

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Thank you. Question is resolved now.

Ya Allah bi Haqq Muhammed wa aali Muhammed guide us to the Right Path and keep us along it till we meet You and You are pleased with us, ya Ar'hem Ar-Rahimeen.

Ali Adams

God > infinity

This is the way it should be done.

Also, I believe it should have not needed this quote from Imam Ali in order to know that supplication is only to Allah. I thought this was very very basic knowledge among Muslims due to the overflowing verses of the Quran that prohibit such actions.

(salam)

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This is the way it should be done.

Also, I believe it should have not needed this quote from Imam Ali in order to know that supplication is only to Allah. I thought this was very very basic knowledge among Muslims due to the overflowing verses of the Quran that prohibit such actions.

(salam)

We understood the issue long time ago... we understood who is Allah swt and who is ALi (as) and we also understood the "wilayat of Ali (as) which Allah swt bestowed upon ALi (as).

Layman

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We understood the issue long time ago... we understood who is Allah swt and who is ALi (as) and we also understood the "wilayat of Ali (as) which Allah swt bestowed upon ALi (as).

Layman

Then why did you previously defend the claim that is it ok to call unto Ali when in help?

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Then why did you previously defend the claim that is it ok to call unto Ali when in help?

When Allah swt gave Adam (as) the knowledge, the Angels sought through Adam (as) to learn. The Angels did not go straight to Allah swt. Allah bestowed upon Ali (as) the wilayat of Imamate, and through that wilayat, Allah swt help will come. Through the Wilayat of Imam Zaman (as), the final victory will come to the muslim. If you understand the meaning of wilayat then calling unto Ali (though the wilayat) for help is ok.

But if you get confused, then you just want to seek unto "Allah swt" directly. I have no problem with anyone who want to use that approach (mean). You can call upon Allah swt directly. I call upon Allah through wilayat of Ali (as). Let Allah swt be the judge.

Wassalam

Layman

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If you understand the meaning of wilayat then calling unto Ali (though the wilayat) for help is ok.

Don't confuse people with your words. The wilayat have nothing to do with calling them for help. "wilãyat" is the authority invested in the Prophet and the Ahlul Bayt as representatives of Almighty Allãh on this earth. I give you a clear understanding of Mutahhari (ra) definition of what wilãyat means. According to the late Murtaza Mutahhari, wilãyat has four dimensions:

(1) The right of love and devotion (wilã'-e muhabbat): This right places the Muslims under the obligation of loving the Ahlul Bayt.

(2) The authority in spiritual guidance (wilã'-e imãmat): This reflects the power and authority of the Ahlul Bayt in guiding their followers in spiritual matters.

(3) The authority in socio-political guidance (wilã'-e zi'ãmat): This dimension of wilãyat reflects the right that the Ahlul Bayt have to lead the Muslims in social and political aspects of life.

(4) The authority of the universal nature (wilã'-e tasarruf): This dimension reflects universal power over the entire universe that the Prophet and Ahlul Bayt have been vested with by the grace of Almighty Allãh.[91]

This is the authority that Allah (SWT) gave to Ahlulbayt (as) in this world, and their treasure is among us. So we should learn from their works and sayings, and not ask them directly help, because It is only to Allah (SWT) we should ask help. fallah that Imam Ali (as) letter is beautiful and great answer.

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Don't confuse people with your words. The wilayat have nothing to do with calling them for help. "wilãyat" is the authority invested in the Prophet and the Ahlul Bayt as representatives of Almighty Allãh on this earth. I give you a clear understanding of Mutahhari (ra) definition of what wilãyat means. According to the late Murtaza Mutahhari, wilãyat has four dimensions:

(1) The right of love and devotion (wilã'-e muhabbat): This right places the Muslims under the obligation of loving the Ahlul Bayt.

(2) The authority in spiritual guidance (wilã'-e imãmat): This reflects the power and authority of the Ahlul Bayt in guiding their followers in spiritual matters.

(3) The authority in socio-political guidance (wilã'-e zi'ãmat): This dimension of wilãyat reflects the right that the Ahlul Bayt have to lead the Muslims in social and political aspects of life.

(4) The authority of the universal nature (wilã'-e tasarruf): This dimension reflects universal power over the entire universe that the Prophet and Ahlul Bayt have been vested with by the grace of Almighty Allãh.[91]

This is the authority that Allah (SWT) gave to Ahlulbayt (as) in this world, and their treasure is among us. So we should learn from their works and sayings, and not ask them directly help, because It is only to Allah (SWT) we should ask help.

Perhaps you should have read what you quoted from Muttahari - wilaya tasarruf is exactly why we pray to Allah through the Ahlul Bayt (as). Saying Ya Ali is not only inline with Qur'anic teachings (5:35) but also the sunnah of the Holy Prophet (saw) and that of the Sahaba (ra).

And what this letter is highlighting is that Allah is source of all power, even that which possessed by Ahlul Bayt (as). But who would tell you about the reality of Allah? How to speak to him? None other than Ali (as).

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Perhaps you should have read what you quoted from Muttahari - wilaya tasarruf is exactly why we pray to Allah through the Ahlul Bayt (as). Saying Ya Ali is not only inline with Qur'anic teachings (5:35) but also the sunnah of the Holy Prophet (saw) and that of the Sahaba (ra).

First i do not want argue again about Quranic verse 5:35 (read the other threads). Second, how wilã'-e tasarruf have to do with asking Imam Ali (as) for help? It is just a power from Allah (SWT) was gived when they was alive in this world.

And what this letter is highlighting is that Allah is source of all power, even that which possessed by Ahlul Bayt (as). But who would tell you about the reality of Allah? How to speak to him? None other than Ali (as).

No, it highlighting that to Allah (SWT) only we should ask Help. Also "Reserve your prayers, your requests, your solicitations, your supplications and your entreaties to Him and Him alone."

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First i do not want argue again about Quranic verse 5:35 (read the other threads). Second, how wilã'-e tasarruf have to do with asking Imam Ali (as) for help? It is just a power from Allah (SWT) was gived when they was alive in this world.

You don't need argue about it - the verse is clear. Your mistake is to assume they are dead.

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Don't confuse people with your words. The wilayat have nothing to do with calling them for help. "wilãyat" is the authority invested in the Prophet and the Ahlul Bayt as representatives of Almighty Allãh on this earth. I give you a clear understanding of Mutahhari (ra) definition of what wilãyat means. According to the late Murtaza Mutahhari, wilãyat has four dimensions:

(1) The right of love and devotion (wilã'-e muhabbat): This right places the Muslims under the obligation of loving the Ahlul Bayt.

(2) The authority in spiritual guidance (wilã'-e imãmat): This reflects the power and authority of the Ahlul Bayt in guiding their followers in spiritual matters.

(3) The authority in socio-political guidance (wilã'-e zi'ãmat): This dimension of wilãyat reflects the right that the Ahlul Bayt have to lead the Muslims in social and political aspects of life.

(4) The authority of the universal nature (wilã'-e tasarruf): This dimension reflects universal power over the entire universe that the Prophet and Ahlul Bayt have been vested with by the grace of Almighty Allãh.[91]

This is the authority that Allah (SWT) gave to Ahlulbayt (as) in this world, and their treasure is among us. So we should learn from their works and sayings, and not ask them directly help, because It is only to Allah (SWT) we should ask help. fallah that Imam Ali (as) letter is beautiful and great answer.

Read the spiritual guidance part... This part has nothing to do with physical. If we call for help in a spiritual manner, the Imam has the power and authority (with Permission from Allah swt) to guide us..guide us toward Allah swt. We know the Ultimate Power is with Allah swt. We call upon Allah swt through HIS HOLY NAMES....again the HOLY NAMES are just means to reach Allah swt, and it were created in order for us to communicate to HIS ESSENSE. Where the spirit of these HOLY NAMES exist, we are able to call upon Allah swt through them.

We will face to Kaabah during prayer, physically. Spiritually, we should be in Baitullah to make our prayer. If we understand what is Kaabah and what is Baitullah, then our prayer would be more better. Kaabah can be destroyed and damage or eliminated from the earth. But Baitullah will exist forever. The Baitullah is more important MEAN to us. We need to be in Baitullah before our solat is accepted. How many people pray near the Kaabah, but their prayers were in vain. They need to be in Baitullah first. The HOLY NAMES of Allah swt exist in Baitullah.

Ali is just a physical being and will perish, but His Wilayat (spiritual part) stay with us until the hereafter. His wilayat will guide the followers toward Allah swt spiritually. To make a good comparison : "the Physical part of Ali is the Kaabah...Imamate of Ali (as) is the Baitullah."

Layman

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You don't need argue about it - the verse is clear.

Yes the verse is clear, but looking from your knowledge viewpoint, it makes it more complicated. Read my understanding of that verse and Wasilah. here

Your mistake is to assume they are dead.

I do not assume this, it is in Quran where it says they are living finding their sustenance in the Presence of their Lord.

Read the spiritual guidance part... This part has nothing to do with physical. If we call for help in a spiritual manner, the Imam has the power and authority (with Permission from Allah swt) to guide us..guide us toward Allah swt. We know the Ultimate Power is with Allah swt. We call upon Allah swt through HIS HOLY NAMES....again the HOLY NAMES are just means to reach Allah swt, and it were created in order for us to communicate to HIS ESSENSE. Where the spirit of these HOLY NAMES exist, we are able to call upon Allah swt through them.

There is difference in (1) asking their help and (2) reading their books, sayings to gain spiritual guidance. I believe in claim (2) (This is also part of Wasilah). But i don't believe in claim (1)(Even the Letter No. 31 does support it)

Ali is just a physical being and will perish, but His Wilayat (spiritual part) stay with us until the hereafter. His wilayat will guide the followers toward Allah swt spiritually. To make a good comparison : "the Physical part of Ali is the Kaabah...Imamate of Ali is the Baitullah."

His spiritual guidance is amoung us (His knowledge, His sayings, His books which we have among us). And yes his wilayat guide to closeness of Allah (SWT). And don't comparase those kind of things.

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Yes the verse is clear, but looking from your knowledge viewpoint, it makes it more complicated. Read my understanding of that verse and Wasilah. here

You should read "Light Within Me" written by Allama Tabatabai... and I qoute

"That is why even the former Prophets could think of no station higher than that of the vision of the Divine Names and Attributes, with the result that they had to face many difficulties and hardships, and were able to get rid of them only by invoking the station of the spiritual guardianship of the Holy Prophet, Imam Ali, Fatimah Zahra and their progeny. It was the spiritual guardianship of these personalities that delivered the former Prophets from their worries and grief. Although the former Prophets were to a certain extent conscious of the high position of the Imams and that is why they invoked it, but till the end of their life they did not know all its characteristics. Some Qur'anic verses show that only Prophet Ibrahim once or twice viewed these higher truths, but only momentarily. The permanent vision of them will be in the other world only. " (http://www.al-islam.org/LWM/tabatabai_2.htm)

This is WASILAH.

Layman

There is difference in (1) asking their help and (2) reading their books, sayings to gain spiritual guidance. I believe in claim (2) (This is also part of Wasilah). But i don't believe in claim (1)(Even the Letter No. 31 does support it)

His spiritual guidance is amoung us (His knowledge, His sayings, His books which we have among us). And yes his wilayat guide to closeness of Allah (SWT). And don't comparase those kind of things.

If you want to read books to gain spiritual guidance, go ahead.

If you read physical books that have written "words from our Imams" and seek spiritual Guidance through our Imams, then that understanding would be better.

We read in books that we have to say "Allahu akbar" in our solat. IT will not be the same as reading "Allahu akbar" with the intercession of the Ahlulbayt. With that Intercession, the feel from saying the word "Allahu Akbar" is totally different. A person will be in different dimension totally. That is the power of intercession. A person will see the greatness of Allah swt to a degree that it is difficult to describe ot anyone. Beyond the description of written books.

Layman

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You should read "Light Within Me" written by Allama Tabatabai... and I qoute

"That is why even the former Prophets could think of no station higher than that of the vision of the Divine Names and Attributes, with the result that they had to face many difficulties and hardships, and were able to get rid of them only by invoking the station of the spiritual guardianship of the Holy Prophet, Imam Ali, Fatimah Zahra and their progeny. It was the spiritual guardianship of these personalities that delivered the former Prophets from their worries and grief." (http://www.al-islam.org/LWM/tabatabai_2.htm)

This is WASILAH.

Layman

You see i don't believe in this. Because there is no Support "former Prophets knowing Ahlulbait" in Quran nor in Historical records. Only in Hadiths, which i doubt it.

If you read physical books that have written "words from our Imams" and seek spiritual Guidance through our Imams, then that understanding would be better.

Yes i seek their spiritual Guidance from their words in Books. I even seek guidance from science to gain nearness to God :)

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You see i don't believe in this.

You should read the book and how Allama Tabatabai proved his statement through Qur'an...

We don't need to make you believe in what we believe, but just try to understand that people who say YA ALI MADAD has proofs in what they are sayings and NOT just blinding followers.

Layman

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Yes i seek their spiritual Guidance from their words in Books. I even seek guidance from science to gain nearness to God :)

This where we may have some problems. Words in BOOKs are not protected. Only Qur'an and Ahlulbayt (as) are protected. Do you want to seek spiritual guidance through words that are written in books through "hadith writters" or directly through the Living Holy Souls (as) who are actually producer of the words in original form?

This is where the differences between those who seek wasilah through books ONLY, and those who seek wasilah from the written words of Imams and their Living Souls (that is Alive).

If I may ask from a logical point of view: Which one would be better?

1. Should we study mathematics from the notes written by the students or

2. Study mathematics from the notes written by the students and get verification from the Teacher? or

3. Directly from the Teacher

All three methods are okay but there should be a preferred method if there is a possiblity.

Layman

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You should read the book and how Allama Tabatabai proved his statement through Qur'an...

Yes i should read that book. InshaAllah in vacation time.

We don't need to make you believe in what we believe, but just try to understand that people who say YA ALI MADAD has proofs in what they are sayings and NOT just blinding followers.

In these few days the whole issue was to prove that it is acceptable to say Ali Help. But the definition of that statement in this manner "Asking Ali help of our trouble, so he then ask Allah to help us" is proved in many case to be wrong. Imam Ali said clearly " Reserve your prayers, your requests, your solicitations, your supplications and your entreaties to Him and Him alone. This itself give us highly understand that we always should ask directly Allah (SWT) help, not trought someone.

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In these few days the whole issue was to prove that it is acceptable to say Ali Help. But the definition of that statement in this manner "Asking Ali help of our trouble, so he then ask Allah to help us" is proved in many case to be wrong. Imam Ali said clearly " Reserve your prayers, your requests, your solicitations, your supplications and your entreaties to Him and Him alone. This itself give us highly understand that we always should ask directly Allah (SWT) help, not trought someone.

In our supplication to "HIM and HIM alone", we (the people who believe in Imamate of Ali as) will do it with our IMAM that is alongside with us. We are not cut off from our living HOLY souls (as). There are present in our hearts and we supplicate to Allah swt (and HIM alone) in this manner.

Once you can prove that Ali (as) is spiritually dead (cut off) and not connected to the present and future people then you can say that we are wrong. Otherwise, you just made a statement to satisfy your own nafs.

Layman

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This where we may have some problems. Words in BOOKs are not protected. Only Qur'an and Ahlulbayt (as) are protected. Do you want to seek spiritual guidance through words that are written in books through "hadith writters" or directly through the Living Holy Souls (as) who are actually producer of the words in original form?

This is where the differences between those who seek wasilah through books ONLY, and those who seek wasilah from the written words of Imams and their Living Souls (that is Alive).

I answer to your questions throught ibn al-Haytham (ra) sayings. He said: I constantly sought knowledge and truth, and it became my belief that for gaining access to the effulgence and closeness to God, there is no better way than that of searching for truth and knowledge.

If I may ask from a logical point of view: Which one would be better?

1. Should we study mathematics from the notes written by the students or

2. Study mathematics from the notes written by the students and get verification from the Teacher? or

3. Directly from the Teacher

All three methods are okay but there should be a preferred method if there is a possiblity.

He said: Therefore, the seeker after the truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and, following his natural disposition, puts his trust in them, but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them, the one who submits to argument and demonstration, and not to the sayings of a human being whose nature is fraught with all kinds of imperfection and deficiency. Thus the duty of the man who investigates the writings of scientists, if learning the truth is his goal, is to make himself an enemy of all that he reads, and, applying his mind to the core and margins of its content, attack it from every side. He should also suspect himself as he performs his critical examination of it, so that he may avoid falling into either prejudice or leniency.

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I do not assume this, it is in Quran where it says they are living finding their sustenance in the Presence of their Lord.

Thus wilayah tasarruf is still there...I don't understand what you're arguing about.

You see i don't believe in this. Because there is no Support "former Prophets knowing Ahlulbait" in Quran nor in Historical records. Only in Hadiths, which i doubt it.

So you're a hadith rejector?

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In our supplication to "HIM and HIM alone", we (the people who believe in Imamate of Ali as) will do it with our IMAM that is alongside with us. We are not cut off from our living HOLY souls (as). There are present in our hearts and we supplicate to Allah swt (and HIM alone) in this manner.

When i read supplication, i read it toward Allah, which means To him Alone. But when i read my supplication toward Imam Ali, this is not anymore Alone. Now im asking Imam Ali help, so he may ask our problem toward Allah alone. Btw, yet i don't believe that we can communicate with Imams who are alive spiritually. There is no proof on it.

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When i read supplication, i read it toward Allah, which means To him Alone. But when i read my supplication toward Imam Ali, this is not anymore Alone. Now im asking Imam Ali help, so he may ask our problem toward Allah alone. Btw, yet i don't believe that we can communicate with Imams who are alive spiritually. There is no proof on it.

So don't. I can, so I do. Simple.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

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I answer to your questions throught ibn al-Haytham (ra) sayings. He said: I constantly sought knowledge and truth, and it became my belief that for gaining access to the effulgence and closeness to God, there is no better way than that of searching for truth and knowledge.

Do you know what is Knowledge and Truth? The real meaning of it!!!

Rasul said "I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is the Gate".... "Ali is with Truth and the Truth is with Ali".

That is the reason why Allah swt made it compulsory for us to LOVE ahlulbayt (as).

Ali (as) said to the people during Siffin ..."Quran is with Me and not on those who lift the Qur'an on their spear"

If you are with Prophet and with Ali and Ahlulbayt...YOU ARE ALREADY CLOSE TO Allah swt.

Hold on to Qur'an and Ahlulbayt...you will be guided

Layman

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Thus wilayah tasarruf is still there...I don't understand what you're arguing about.

What i argue is that there is no proof that saying "Ya Ali Please help me" is allowed. But i accept that saying "Ya Allah, i ask you bi Haqq al-Quran for such and such" is allowed.

So you're a hadith rejector?

Nope.

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When i read supplication, i read it toward Allah, which means To him Alone. But when i read my supplication toward Imam Ali, this is not anymore Alone. Now im asking Imam Ali help, so he may ask our problem toward Allah alone. Btw, yet i don't believe that we can communicate with Imams who are alive spiritually. There is no proof on it.

Do you recite the Ziyaraat of the A'imma (Waritha, Ashura etc.)? Or have you been for any Ziyaraat?

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When i read supplication, i read it toward Allah, which means To him Alone. But when i read my supplication toward Imam Ali, this is not anymore Alone. Now im asking Imam Ali help, so he may ask our problem toward Allah alone. Btw, yet i don't believe that we can communicate with Imams who are alive spiritually. There is no proof on it.

Your definition of Alone is "You alone ask help from Allah swt". Our definition "We and our Imams ask help from Allah swt. There is no shirk in our asking "together with our Imams" to Allah swt because we NEVER say there is God beside HIM swt.

THe bottom line is that you don't believe we can communicate with Imams... that is your standard. Please don't impose it on others.

DO REMEMBER THAT IN your SOLAT...

That you supposed to face Allah swt alone...why you say salam to Prophet toward the end of your SOLAT!!! you should not say it because you should worship Allah Alone!

YOU should not say "Ih dinassiratal mustaqeem...siratalazii na an am taa ala him" because in your solat should be "alone unto HIM swt" and your should not ask to be with those whom Allah swt has given blessings in your Prayer! This is your standard.

Those who believe in AHlulbayt will always say in our SOLAT...Ih dinassiratal mustaqeem...siratalazii na an am taa ala him" Siratalmustaqeem is Prophet and Ahlulbayt (as).

Layman

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Do you know what is Knowledge and Truth? The real meaning of it!!!

Rasul said "I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is the Gate".... "Ali is with Truth and the Truth is with Ali".

That is the reason why Allah swt made it compulsory for us to LOVE ahlulbayt (as).

Ali (as) said to the people during Siffin ..."Quran is with Me and not on those who lift the Qur'an on their spear"

If you are with Prophet and with Ali and Ahlulbayt...YOU ARE ALREADY CLOSE TO Allah swt.

Hold on to Qur'an and Ahlulbayt...you will be guided

Layman

His saying is toward any which is truth. I give you an example:

Allah (SWT) says this: Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding,-

Now i research one of the sing of God, then i found the truth. Now i think and use it for benefit reason and also praising to God of how wonderful that sing is. This itself guide me toward Allah (SWT).

Ahlulbait (as) is also sign of Allah (SWT), and from them we find truth and guidance.

Do you recite the Ziyaraat of the A'imma (Waritha, Ashura etc.)? Or have you been for any Ziyaraat?

Yes in the sense to asking God to give them my salaam and give them my blessing for their guidance which have leaded to me in this path.

THe bottom line is that you don't believe we can communicate with Imams... that is your standard. Please don't impose it on others.

I don't impose for other, i asked to give me a Quranic proof that we can communicate them in Spiritual world. What i believe is that only Allah (SWT) can communicate with them.

Your definition of Alone is "You alone ask help from Allah swt". Our definition "We and our Imams ask help from Allah swt. There is no shirk in our asking "together with our Imams" to Allah swt because we NEVER say there is God beside HIM swt.

I believe only in the intercession of Day of Judgement, where i can ask their help. Not in this life time, because there is no proof on Quran about it.

So don't. I can, so I do. Simple.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating

Ok.

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His saying is toward any which is truth. I give you an example:

Allah (SWT) says this: Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding,-

Now i research one of the sing of God, then i found the truth. Now i think and use it for benefit reason and also praising to God of how wonderful that sing is. This itself guide me toward Allah (SWT).

Ahlulbait (as) is also sign of Allah (SWT), and from them we find truth and guidance.

In all the Signs of Allah swt, the biggest and the highest of all are Qur'an and Ahlulbayt (as). The other signs of Allah swt can't be our leaders to our nafs. They don't have the roadmap. They don't teach us how to supplicate unto Allah swt.

Other signs of Allah swt do not carry the responsibilities to guide the ummah. I have seen many people who believe in GOD because they have seen the signs of God, but they are not muslims. They are good people.

If you believe that you can be independent from Ahlulbayt (as) because they already dead and have no communication with us...YOU ARE MISSING THE BIGGEST SIGN OF Allah swt. Allah swt guidance is flowing to us through Muhammad and Ahlulbayt and until today Allah swt has made is compulsory for Mukmin to give their blessings them.

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[shakir 33:56] Surely Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who believe! call for (Divine) blessings on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation.

Their existence is indeed the BRIGHTEST SIGN...in them we will understand Qur'an and in THEM lies the HOLY NAMES of Allah swt. And through THEM is fastest way to reach Allah swt.

Wassalam,

Layman

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In all the Signs of Allah swt, the biggest and the highest of all are Qur'an and Ahlulbayt .

True.

The other signs of Allah swt can't be our leaders to our nafs. They don't have the roadmap. They don't teach us how to supplicate unto Allah swt.

The man who believe in one God and when he sees His signs, he start to supplicate and thank to God. This itself is good deed and knowledge which is part of wasilah which can lead us toward God. The signs of Allah (SWT) is the roadmap for truth.

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Yes in the sense to asking God to give them my salaam and give them my blessing for their guidance which have leaded to me in this path.

I don't impose for other, i asked to give me a Quranic proof that we can communicate them in Spiritual world. What i believe is that only Allah (SWT) can communicate with them.

Surely Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who believe! call for (Divine) blessings on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation(33:56)

this is your Quranic ayah that we can communicate with the Prophet saw from this life to the next. If you believe that Allah knew the Prophet saw would die, and if you believe the Quran is for all times and is true for all peoples in all locations. Also it is obligatory for a muslim to return your salams, so when you are praying peace on the Prophet saw, you are in effect asking His saw intercession for you right now, in this world, because you know He saw will in turn pray peace upon you

(if you dont believe the above then stop praying peace on the Prophet saw because Allah and His Angels already does that as shown in the above ayah so there is no need for you to do it as well (unless you actually think that there is a chance that Prophet saw might actually need your prayers and your intercession before Allah, rather than vice versa)

Edited by GhulameSayyeda
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Your definition of Alone is "You alone ask help from Allah swt". Our definition "We and our Imams ask help from Allah swt. There is no shirk in our asking "together with our Imams" to Allah swt because we NEVER say there is God beside HIM swt.

THe bottom line is that you don't believe we can communicate with Imams... that is your standard. Please don't impose it on others.

DO REMEMBER THAT IN your SOLAT...

That you supposed to face Allah swt alone...why you say salam to Prophet toward the end of your SOLAT!!! you should not say it because you should worship Allah Alone!

YOU should not say "Ih dinassiratal mustaqeem...siratalazii na an am taa ala him" because in your solat should be "alone unto HIM swt" and your should not ask to be with those whom Allah swt has given blessings in your Prayer! This is your standard.

Those who believe in AHlulbayt will always say in our SOLAT...Ih dinassiratal mustaqeem...siratalazii na an am taa ala him" Siratalmustaqeem is Prophet and Ahlulbayt (as).

Layman

When you say "O Ali help"

1. You are calling unto Ali and you're not asking for help with the Imams. Look at your words.

2. In Islam, we disregard your intentions if your actions are haram. A bad deed will not be accepted by Allah even if your intentions are good (ex. gambling to feed the poor). Here, clearly your action is haram, so we do not take into account your intention. Shirk comes in 2 forms: belief and action.

3. You disregarded the verses in the Quran and the hadith and you gave your own rulings on the issue. Allah says do not invoke other than him, Ali tells you only to invoke only Allah, yet you try and justify your invocation to other than Allah. Can we say, according to your actions, that you do not take the Quran and Ahlul bayt as guides?

Zufa, is it me or are people so oblivious to the clear commands of Allah? It's as if they have never read the Quran.

And even if they could communicate with the unseen, what makes it halal? Allah called the invocation of jinns magic and has said it is shirk, so how does communicating with the unseen any justification for calling upon the dead?

If only, if only they said O Ali in poetry, but alas, they have turned love and respect into worship.

Edited by fallah
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