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Islamophobia In The West

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you sound more like someone who's been assigned by the government to profile minority community behavior!

Did I mention extreme paranoia as one of the common psychopathologies within the Muslim community? Add that to the list.

apologizing?? who said anything about apologizing??

You said I should defend people. Defending them generally means making excuses and engaging in apologetics.

create an umbrella association to unite and give a single voice to all smaller dispersed centers and mosques

Good idea. Question, though. What are you going to do when the leadership of these dispersed centers work behind the scenes to sabotage your efforts because they are jealous of your success and fearful that Muslims doing things right will expose how much they're doing nothing?

Because, believe me, they will. This is the level at which things are.

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Islamophobia and its practical implementations are simply defense mechanisms of various groups within Western nations, with the key mechanism known as regression. Regression is a return to primitive and childish mannerisms and behaviorism when provoked by fear. Islamophobia comes from the very real perception that the Islamic culture is gaining more relevance and permanence, and that liberal and Western culture is under threat, ie on the decline in terms of global domination. Islamophobia is largely a result of their ignorance and their misunderstandings about the nature of Islamic culture, partly attributed to their own seal on their hearts, but also to some Muslims who seem to fall for the bait and end up in a spiraling dialogue of cliched apologetics, knee jerk irrationality, and propagandistic clientism. They mutually feed off each other, while the sincere, separated from this nonsense, have patience and realize that once the smoke clears, the truth will prevail and falsehood will naturally perish by its own contradictory nature.

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Islamophobia comes from the very real perception that the Islamic culture is gaining more relevance and permanence, and that liberal and Western culture is under threat, ie on the decline in terms of global domination.

Where do you think this is happening? Because everywhere I look, I see Muslim communities in a rapid process of disintegration. Maybe in Iran you're experiencing a different reality, but here in the Americas, our communities are literally falling apart, mostly because the people from the old country running the centers prefer national cultures to Islamic culture. I would agree that Islam is a plant that could grow wondrously well in the Americas and Europe, but the existing community structures show little to no interest in this. The conceptions of what they need to be doing to allow the faith to thrive and grow here are totally absent from their minds - they have their cozy little corner where they have their Pakistani, or Khoja, or Iranian, or Iraqi, or Lebanese, or Afghani culture and language a few times a week, with some random, mechanically ritualized religious activities, and they are perfectly content with this, and actively lash out at real efforts to grow something better.

Example: Here in Montreal a few years ago, a group of youth from different cultural backgrounds and centers who knew each other from school took the initiative to go around about 6 months or more before Muharram, center to center, to encourage the idea of taking ONE night in the first ten nights of Muharram where the individual centers would shut down, and we would rent a big place and have a unified program for ONE frikkin night. Common sense, right? A tiny, easy, no brainer first baby step.

We were shocked by the responses. "Oh, gee, that's a nice idea, but that would never work.." "Oh, but those ten days are when we make most of our money..we can't lose 10% of our revenue..." "Oh, sure, 'insha Allah...' (one of the fake insha Allahs mentioned earlier)" "Oh, I'm not sure if the people would like that ..they're used to things in their own language..." "Who are you to be suggesting these things?"

I would tend to agree that when the smoke clears, the Muslim community in the West may well emerge stronger. But my strong feeling is that it's going to be a Phoenix from the ashes sort of thing, scattered survivors of collapsed communities gathering themselves together and starting again from scratch, doing things right.

Edited by kadhim

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^Your general criticism are a way to harsh i would say, but regarding the state of the North American Shia community, what you said is unfortunately pretty much accurate.

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Where do you think this is happening? Because everywhere I look, I see Muslim communities in a rapid process of disintegration. Maybe in Iran you're experiencing a different reality, but here in the Americas, our communities are literally falling apart, mostly because the people from the old country running the centers prefer national cultures to Islamic culture. I would agree that Islam is a plant that could grow wondrously well in the Americas and Europe, but the existing community structures show little to no interest in this. The conceptions of what they need to be doing to allow the faith to thrive and grow here are totally absent from their minds - they have their cozy little corner where they have their Pakistani, or Khoja, or Iranian, or Iraqi, or Lebanese, or Afghani culture and language a few times a week, with some random, mechanically ritualized religious activities, and they are perfectly content with this, and actively lash out at real efforts to grow something better.

Example: Here in Montreal a few years ago, a group of youth from different cultural backgrounds and centers who knew each other from school took the initiative to go around about 6 months or more before Muharram, center to center, to encourage the idea of taking ONE night in the first ten nights of Muharram where the individual centers would shut down, and we would rent a big place and have a unified program for ONE frikkin night. Common sense, right? A tiny, easy, no brainer first baby step.

We were shocked by the responses. "Oh, gee, that's a nice idea, but that would never work.." "Oh, but those ten days are when we make most of our money..we can't lose 10% of our revenue..." "Oh, sure, 'insha Allah...' (one of the fake insha Allahs mentioned earlier)" "Oh, I'm not sure if the people would like that ..they're used to things in their own language..." "Who are you to be suggesting these things?"

I would tend to agree that when the smoke clears, the Muslim community in the West may well emerge stronger. But my strong feeling is that it's going to be a Phoenix from the ashes sort of thing, scattered survivors of collapsed communities gathering themselves together and starting again from scratch, doing things right.

Your frustrations seem well founded and unfortunate, but I think we have to keep in mind that we cannot derive conclusions purely from anecdotal evidence. Sure, it has it's place, but it's not going to give us the full picture on Islamic cultural resergence in the World, and particularly the Western world. A better approach to analyzing the future dominance of Muslims (and by extension Islamic culture), could be by analyzing birth rates, conversation rates, halal stores per capita, mosques per capita, schools by capita, etc. These are quantifiable and verifiable data that can be used as a launching pad towards understanding the sociological effects of these demographic changes. As much as you believe Muslims where you live are falling short in some aspects, you cannot deny that there are many unconscious attitudes and thoughts that are Islamic in nature, that will naturally gain more momentum as Muslim minorities increase. Topics such as alcohol, homosexuality, etc are issues that are relatively unambiguous and uncompromisable, and a larger proportion of Muslims in an area will alter the sociological and psychological trends of that area, even if there are still a majority of non-Muslims, because the cultural counter current will be more forceful. These will be the immediate effects of Muslim resurgences in non-Muslim communities.

If you want my opinion, the Western world is going through a transition phase in terms of its Muslims, where younger generations who are mostly English speakers and natives of these lands are increasingly sharpening their Islamic identity towards one that is clear of cultural contradictions and more towards a pan-Islamic view. Enhance this with an increasing number of indigenous people reverting to Islam, and you will see more diverse and vibrant communities. This is already more prevalent with Sunni communities, but it will happen in Shia communities in due time as well, enshallah, especially since the Islamic Revolution, which has greatly opened up the Shia communities and allowed them a greater opportunity to take part in pan-Islamic discourse and community building, a chance they never really had before.

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Educated people in the West can distinguish between the majority of peaceful Muslims and the few radicals who rather have a political agenda than a religious one. We should not create a new phobia about alleged widespread islamophobia.

What would really help? Peaceful demonstrations of thousands of Muslims in moderate countries like Jordan, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, Turkey, Indonesia and many others. And the demonstrators would wave placards reading 'we want interfaith dialog', 'we want freedom of religion', 'we reject religious violence', 'we want peace', 'we want fairness', 'I have a friend who is a Christian', 'I have a friend who is a Jew', 'I have a friend who is a Hindu', 'human dignity is inviolable', and so forth.

--------------------------

Education is key as a holistic, transparent, dialog-oriented process --Queen Rania Al Abdullah

Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people --Eleanor Roosevelt

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^On the surface that might sound good and nice, but I think the educated people in the West, particularly among authors and intellectuals, continue to have a naive and primitive view of Muslims and of Islam itself, often of a self-serving and superficial nature. It was that way throughout the 20th century, and even now, within this past decade, where Muslims have increased their voice on the world stage, very little substantial intellectual evolution has taken place among Western intellectual culture, despite the badly needed necessity for it. After 30 years they are still in denial about the ideological and popular fortitude behind the Islamic Revolution, they are still in denial about the global rise in Islam and the decline of other religions, and are still just overall in denial that any non-Western model can not only self-sustain itself, but actually serve as a formidable counter to the hegemony of Western dogma.

What would help will be Muslims achieving self-sufficiency in their own nations, and being the ones the West seeks for economic, political, and ideological support, not the other way around. Where non-Muslims come to the Muslims for help on what are the best models for modern economic development, for social enlightenment, and for promotion of sound family structure. It cannot be this kind of knee jerk reactionism, apologetic or otherwise, of chanting slogans outsiders want to hear so they can feel good about themselves, and how they have "tamed the beast". Also designating countries as "moderate" countries (whatever that means), doesn't help the case further, because these classifications are absolutely meaningless and serve no purpose for anyone.

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German antifa issues 'How to Riot' guide books ahead of right-wing party gatherings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v

Longer version

http://www.elim.ir/view/3467843/german-antifa-issues-how-to-riot

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11 minutes ago, Ali Heidar said:

Not sure about other states though

Salam above video is  about Germany.

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Anni Cyrus lies about Iran & Islam :angry:

[MOD NOTE: Video below contains woman with no hijab.]

The Solution to stop Islam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYCDuBuDlgI

Edited by Hameedeh
Mod Note

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I've been on Shiachat for a while now, albeit not actively. This is because I am not a Muslim. I was baptized in an ethnic Catholic church and left at 13, bouncing through man different phases of studying faith and philosophy outside of the general watered down worldview I was given. My autism helps with this, because I generally find the subject enthralling and am motivated to devote large amounts of time to studying it, unlike most academic subjects.

I am a working class Caucasian American male, blue collar with almost a two year degree that remains unfinished due to dyscalculi. I have tried to be the "American Dude" here, rather than take on a fake persona. I feel that I can make a valuable contribution to this discussion, as I primarily run with the types of people who tend to be aggressively islamophobic (and there are a smaller, but sizeable number in my community metro).

Islamophobia, as it is being referred to, doesn't actually exist in my area. People aren't afraid of Muslims or Islam at all, as we have a small Sunni community that I was turned off by at the masjid, but who are markedly successful businessmen. They actually choose to keep themselves out of the community eye, which is pretty sad because they are good businessmen and could probably get on well with others, as our community respects hard work and ingenuity. These are Sunni, who in my own experience have been verydifficult and cold people to deal with-- seeing my presence at their house of worship to be just a sort of object to be fought over for making dawah(?), Guiding through shahada, and stripping them of their culture, identity, and replacing it with their idealized version of a devout Muslim from their particular background. 

If such is going to be the overwhelming vision for Islam in he West, then I can tell you with 100% sincerity that it is not going to be received and will most likely be loudly decried and scoffed at in the profane and vulgar way that my society currently regards her once dominant Judeo-Christian worldview. Islam in America will more than likely take on it's own character, which of course, will start the "No True Scotsman..." arguments from every major Islamic authority just like the Catholic Church, then mainline Protestant, than Evangelical Christian, had to answer to and eventually were blown off anyway by the younger generation once they become adults.

 

It's 2am and I'm rambling, I'll pick this back up later if anyone wants to hear where it was going.

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On 6/15/2018 at 1:57 AM, GD41586 said:

through shahada, and stripping them of their culture, identity, and replacing it with their idealized version of a devout Muslim from their particular background

Hi ,it’s something which is common in all Muslim society,even shia Muslims have these attitudes but Sunni Muslims more active in this field , I’m happy to hear that your coummuunity has respect for good works & manner I hope following link help you a little 

Discrimination against new converts :the other Islamphobia

https://youtu.be/6rah16eU6wA

Autism Awareness workshop : what is Autism ? Workshop for Muslim Communities by by Sheikh Mateen Charbonneau

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21 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

[MOD NOTE: Video below contains woman with no hijab

Thanks I forgot that :blush: Eid mubarak to everyone :eat: I'm going to eat:birthday: :love::hahaha::party:

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Using of wrong beliefs of Wahhabism to spread Islamophobia :blabla:

Where is Allah ? Muslim scholars Answer ! 

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19 hours ago, Reza said:

Many others are tolerant and open minded, but confused, and surely have some prejudices. But it's far from "hate"

Salam many others don't care about religion ,always top brands in social media is about Entertainment ,Fashion or Sport but hot comments is belongs to religious follower minority that at top are hardcore Christians ,second Wahhabis against Shias & Shias are in bottom of the list.

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6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam many others don't care about religion ,always top brands in social media is about Entertainment ,Fashion or Sport but hot comments is belongs to religious follower minority that at top are hardcore Christians ,second Wahhabis against Shias & Shias are in bottom of the list.

A lot of misconceptions about religion could be resolved by reading a decent book or a few articles, or speaking a few minutes with a knowledgeable person. Many can't, won't, or don't do it. 

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On 6/15/2018 at 8:57 AM, GD41586 said:

 

It's 2am and I'm rambling, I'll pick this back up later if anyone wants to hear where it was going.

Yes, please do.

How do you perceive the Shias?

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