Islamophobia In The West

[Haji 2003]

Culture evolves and its negotiated

Unlike the British the French have a strong culinary culture and they are very proud of it. So it's interesting how they are evolving new recipes that don't involve meat.

This evolution recognises that here is no law that dictates what constitutes a French Christmas dinner. Cultures evolve based on peoples' preferences.

And if a country has a lot of Muslims ...

 

https://twitter.com/BFMTV/status/1604802583100522496

 

 

[Haji 2003]

[Guest Window]

Islamophobia in the West is a serious problem. Non-Muslims are so intolerant of Muslims who stand-up for themselves. They think it goes against their values. 

[Haji 2003]

 

 

[Haji 2003]

Chairman of the BBC

He was a donor to the Quilliam Foundation which has been described as:

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for 13 years Quilliam reinforced the idea that Muslims are a suspect community and supported the draconian “counter-terrorism” policies being pushed by the government. Its members peddled the unevidenced logic that to fight terrorism, the state had to identify and undermine extremist ideologies, which would lead to terrorist actions.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/4/20/the-quilliam-foundation-has-closed-but-its-toxic-legacy-remains

 

[Haji 2003]

Finger being pointed at the UAE

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So back to the question: what has the UAE’s jihad against political Islam achieved? Why is a Muslim government continuing to sponsor and fund a campaign that targets Muslims in Europe, irrespective of their political views or activities?

Mohammed bin Zayed has been forced - by failure - to change his foreign policy. He has lifted the siege on neighbouring Qatar. He now invests heavily in Turkey. At least on the surface, he is making peace with his regional rivals. 

And yet, the funding for this pernicious campaign continues. Why? What is to be gained by the UAE from spreading fear, smearing innocent Muslims, wrecking reputations and businesses, spurring white racist attacks on mosques, and ruining the lives of thousands?

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/uae-european-islamophobia-stoking-why

[Haji 2003]

Muslim child removed from family because they did not accept LGBTQi+

That's the claim, anyway. Consider this to be a developing story.

 

[notme]

There is usually more to the story than a few words in a headline.  I'd reserve my judgement until I knew more.  

[kadhim]

2 hours ago, notme said:

There is usually more to the story than a few words in a headline.  I'd reserve my judgement until I knew more.  

Agreed. I’m not going to outright rule it out in the absence of substantive information. 
But I am quite skeptical this is the full story with all the relevant details. 

[Haji 2003]

On 4/28/2023 at 4:39 PM, notme said:

There is usually more to the story than a few words in a headline.  I'd reserve my judgement until I knew more.  

 

Here you go, German police announcement. The German language does have Nazi legacy issues doesn't it? After all the word Einsatz is a bit unfortunate given what the Einstazgruppen were up to in WWII.

 

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VIDEO - EINSATZ VOM AMT FÜR JUGEND, FAMILIE UND FRAUEN UND DER POLIZEI

A video of a joint operation of the Youth Welfare Office and the Bremerhaven police is circulating on the social networks, which is commented on with false claims about the reasons for the measure.

The video shows a small excerpt of a court-ordered custody of two children. The police supported the Youth Welfare Office in this operation. Taking care of children is always the last resort of choice and only happens for serious reasons.

We ask for your understanding that we cannot make further explanations on the basis of this decision for the protection of the family and children. We are aware that the video in question is emotionally disturbing.

Please do not spread false facts and claims.

 

https://www.polizei.bremerhaven.de/pm-leser/video-einsatz-vom-amt-fuer-jugend-familie-und-frauen-und-der-polizei.html

[Haji 2003]

However this account seems to have a lot to say on the abduction topic

 

[Haji 2003]

 

[kadhim]

1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

 

In that context, I think it was more about keeping your “do” safe from wind and rain on the way to office or shops though. 

[Haji 2003]

51 minutes ago, kadhim said:

In that context, I think it was more about keeping your “do” safe from wind and rain on the way to office or shops though. 

Not sure the hairdo point would apply to these women, though:

More here:

https://youtu.be/9G1bn-XS5eM

[kadhim]

3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Not sure the hairdo point would apply to these women, though:

More here:

https://youtu.be/9G1bn-XS5eM

I’d imagine that as with anything of this sort, it’s a mix of social/culture and hard-nosed practicality. 

Much like the khimaar and jilbaab of classical Arabia, where they were a combination of class markers and practical wear for the hot desert climate. 

I’m always a little meh about these sorts of comparisons. The intention is Ok, but I don’t if anyone who still has a problem is going to be moved by what some women of some class in some region wore 100 years ago. 

 

[Haji 2003]

1 hour ago, kadhim said:

I’m always a little meh about these sorts of comparisons. The intention is Ok, but I don’t if anyone who still has a problem is going to be moved by what some women of some class in some region wore 100 years ago.

The original point was raised by someone (likely non-Muslim) on Twitter that the head-coverings seen by some as alien to Western culture can hardly be described as such.

As for the comment 'some class in some region' is concerned ... I had a faint recollection of Thomas Hardy's Tess and was also playing around with Bard.google.com, so I decided to ask it:

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Yes, Thomas Hardy describes Tess as having her head covered on several occasions in his novel Tess of the D'Urbervilles. For example, in the opening scene of the novel, Tess is described as wearing a "red ribbon" in her hair and a "small white cap" on her head. Later in the novel, Tess is described as wearing a "large garden hat" when she goes to visit Angel Clare. And in the final scene of the novel, Tess is described as wearing a "white shroud" over her head when she is executed.

The fact that Hardy repeatedly describes Tess as having her head covered suggests that he sees it as an important part of her identity. For Tess, her head covering is a symbol of her modesty, her innocence, and her purity. It is also a symbol of her social status, as women in the 19th century were expected to cover their heads in public.

In the context of the novel, Tess's head covering can be seen as a way of protecting her from the harsh realities of the world. It is a way of keeping her innocent and pure, even in the face of temptation and adversity. It is also a way of asserting her dignity and self-worth, even when she is treated unfairly by others.

Ultimately, Tess's head covering is a complex symbol with multiple meanings. It is a symbol of her modesty, her innocence, her purity, her social status, and her strength. It is a reminder that even in the face of adversity, Tess is a woman of dignity and self-worth.

 

 

Obviously one thing led to another ...

Quote

 

Yes, women covering their heads is a common theme in many 19th century novels. In many cases, it is a reflection of the social norms of the time, which dictated that women should cover their heads in public. However, it can also be seen as a way for women to assert their modesty, their innocence, and their purity.

Here are some examples of 19th century novels where women cover their heads:

• Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë
• Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
• Little Women by Louisa May Alcott
• The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne
• Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe

In each of these novels, the way that women cover their heads is symbolic of their social status, their personal beliefs, and their relationships with others. For example, in Jane Eyre, Jane's decision to cover her head is a way of asserting her independence and her right to be treated with respect. In Pride and Prejudice, Elizabeth Bennet's decision to cover her head is a way of showing her respect for the social conventions of the time. And in Little Women, the March sisters' decision to cover their heads is a way of showing their modesty and their devotion to their family.

The way that women cover their heads in 19th century novels is a complex and nuanced issue. It is a reflection of the social norms of the time, but it is also a way for women to assert their individuality and their agency.

 

 

I also checked out 20th century American literature:

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Sure. Here are some examples of 20th century American literature where women cover their heads:

• The Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton (1920)
• The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald (1925)
• To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee (1960)
• The Color Purple by Alice Walker (1982)
• Beloved by Toni Morrison (1987)

In each of these novels, the way that women cover their heads is symbolic of their social status, their personal beliefs, and their relationships with others. For example, in The Age of Innocence, the women of the upper class are expected to cover their heads in public, as a sign of their modesty and their social status. In The Great Gatsby, Daisy Buchanan covers her head as a way to hide her shame and her guilt. And in To Kill a Mockingbird, Calpurnia covers her head as a way to show her respect for her employers, the Finches.

The way that women cover their heads in 20th century American literature is a complex and nuanced issue. It is a reflection of the social norms of the time, but it is also a way for women to assert their individuality and their agency.

 

 

I could copy/paste the outputs to questions about Russian and French literature, but you get the picture.

 

[azizaliallah]

Is it really a fear of islam or a reaction to wahabism in the world. If I was a chirstan I would most definitely be anti-islamic. This I where we should disassociate ourselves from sinfull pesudo muslims. 

[Haji 2003]

12 minutes ago, azizaliallah said:

Is it really a fear of islam or a reaction to wahabism in the world. If I was a chirstan I would most definitely be anti-islamic. This I where we should disassociate ourselves from sinfull pesudo muslims. 

Certain behaviours are good (like modest clothing), regardless of who it is that is practising that behaviour.

[kadhim]

3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

The original point was raised by someone (likely non-Muslim) on Twitter that the head-coverings seen by some as alien to Western culture can hardly be described as such.

As for the comment 'some class in some region' is concerned ... I had a faint recollection of Thomas Hardy's Tess and was also playing around with Bard.google.com, so I decided to ask it:

 

Obviously one thing led to another ...

 

I also checked out 20th century American literature:

 

I could copy/paste the outputs to questions about Russian and French literature, but you get the picture.

 

As it says, there is quite a lot going on there. 
Especially these literary works, centered, as they tend to be, on aristocratic and upper class perspectives and lives. 

I almost think these comparisons, especially when you’re looking at the upper class lives, kind of get it backwards. A Muslim might look at this and be tempted to say, “hey look, see, your people used to take external expressions of piety as importantly as we do.” Whereas, in actuality, particularly among the upper classes, women dressing like this, as with much of the rest of their public behavior, was a performance. Which is not to say these women weren’t actually pious/chaste/faithful. But rather to say it was as much or more about economics as it was about religion. A demonstration of the ability to guard lineages and the wealth and status that grew and flowed through them. A big part of these sorts of literary works, especially the ones written by women, explored these themes. A lot of layers to it. 

I almost think it’s more useful for Muslims to dig into these works than for Europeans. Seeing the same dynamics played out in the details of a different place gives more distance to query our own versions of the same thing. To question how much of our own constructions of “correct female behavior” were really about the same mundane worldly concerns. 

A little stream of consciousness English lit essay riffing. Ha.

[Haji 2003]

Far-right leader has a problem with matam - gets corrected

 

[kadhim]

2 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Far-right leader has a problem with matam - gets corrected

 

A Muslim cheering this response is more of an “own goal” than a “gotcha.”

[Haji 2003]

1 hour ago, kadhim said:

A Muslim cheering this response is more of an “own goal” than a “gotcha.”

Again, like the head covering material above it's to do with someone claiming that those nasty brown people are bringing in alien practices, only to be told that there's been similar in Britain for much longer and it was considered a positive thing.

People who have issues with self-flagellation per se remind me of the following from Lara Deeb's 2006 book, 'An Enchanted Modern: Gender and Public Piety In Shi'i Lebanon'. (Princeton University Press):

[kadhim]

1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

Again, like the head covering material above it's to do with someone claiming that those nasty brown people are bringing in alien practices, only to be told that there's been similar in Britain for much longer and it was considered a positive thing.

If the complaint is that the practice is “alien,” that might offer something as a response, although I think the vast majority of modern Britons would still find lay medieval zealotry quite alien, even if it were British medieval zealotry. 

I don’t think this type of response though offers much at all to the complaint that such practices represent medieval backwardness. If anything, it sort of reinforces the point. Thus my own goal comment. 

[Haji 2003]

1 hour ago, kadhim said:

I don’t think this type of response though offers much at all to the complaint that such practices represent medieval backwardness. If anything, it sort of reinforces the point. Thus my own goal comment. 

Yes, I thought as much. Hence the quote about urbane Lebs being embarrassed about the practices of their rural kinsfolk.

[Irfani313]

4 hours ago, kadhim said:

If the complaint is that the practice is “alien,” that might offer something as a response, although I think the vast majority of modern Britons would still find lay medieval zealotry quite alien, even if it were British medieval zealotry. 

I don’t think this type of response though offers much at all to the complaint that such practices represent medieval backwardness. If anything, it sort of reinforces the point. Thus my own goal comment. 

Depending who your audience are (or ought to be):

From liberals pov, yes medieval backwardness, but original, traditional, grounded, with similar roots for those who are willing to find common thread.  
 

I believe display of these images are almost always intended thinking our audiences are religious of other faiths. It’s never to please liberals, progressives, or hatefuls, who would never be satisfied until ‘we become like them’ like Allah tells us in Quran.
 

I can give you that the end result is mostly not achieved because most religious of other faiths still find it amusing when Islam is at the receiving end of disdain. Which in itself tells how misguided they are in their adherence to their own traditions. 
 

The most tangible value I see in images like these is reaffirmation of Abrahamic Sunnah practices among Muslims themselves that none of our practices emerge from nowhere, and that these are solid part of shared human legacy and worth carrying forward. 

[kadhim]

2 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

From liberals pov, yes medieval backwardness, but original, traditional, grounded, with similar roots for those who are willing to find common thread.  
 

I believe display of these images are almost always intended thinking our audiences are religious of other faiths. It’s never to please liberals, progressives, or hatefuls, who would never be satisfied until ‘we become like them’ like Allah tells us in Quran.
 

I can give you that the end result is mostly not achieved because most religious of other faiths still find it amusing when Islam is at the receiving end of disdain. Which in itself tells how misguided they are in their adherence to their own traditions. 
 

The most tangible value I see in images like these is reaffirmation of Abrahamic Sunnah practices among Muslims themselves that none of our practices emerge from nowhere, and that these are solid part of shared human legacy and worth carrying forward. 

Even from this perspective it’s wildly misdirected thinking. Even religious Westerners are not going to respond to this because religious Westerners don’t identify these sorts of past practices as integral with the religion. They don’t see it as “part of their traditions.” Why would they? To them it’s just weird things that hyperzealous medieval people did 600 years ago. 

At most, the juxtaposition of the two will trigger a little bit of empathy along the lines of “we were backwards like that too once; these guys are just still working some things through.” 

That’s what they’re thinking. 

And by the way, neither is the Shia Muslim version of this in any way shape or form “Abrahamic Sunnah.” The historical roots are quite shallow. Last few hundred years. 

[Irfani313]

2 hours ago, kadhim said:

Even from this perspective it’s wildly misdirected thinking. Even religious Westerners are not going to respond to this because religious Westerners don’t identify these sorts of past practices as integral with the religion. They don’t see it as “part of their traditions.” Why would they? To them it’s just weird things that hyperzealous medieval people did 600 years ago. 

At most, the juxtaposition of the two will trigger a little bit of empathy along the lines of “we were backwards like that too once; these guys are just still working some things through.” 

That’s what they’re thinking. 

And by the way, neither is the Shia Muslim version of this in any way shape or form “Abrahamic Sunnah.” The historical roots are quite shallow. Last few hundred years. 

Tatbeer in the modern form, maybe, but Aza of Imam Hussain AS in various shapes and forms is as age old as Ibrahim AS himself or older. 
 

My comment was more towards the hijab pics or the covering of the women from head to toe, which is a common human legacy as deep as Adam and as wide as Europe to East Asia, although none of these are my validation point in anyway. 

[Haji 2003]

People who don' go to church complaining about churches being converted to mosques

 

[Diaz]

26 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

People who don' go to church complaining about churches being converted to mosques

 

That's what they are good at, my close friend who is christian told me once about how christians complain about Islam population and why is increasing in levant countries instead of why many of them are not reproducing and why many are not going to churches. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Diaz

[notme]

Allegedly, the teenager who stabbed that gay dancer in New York was Muslim, and it is stirring up renewed hatred.  When Christians or agnostics commit crimes, it's just crime. 

[Haji 2003]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:28 PM, notme said:

Allegedly, the teenager who stabbed that gay dancer in New York was Muslim, and it is stirring up renewed hatred.  When Christians or agnostics commit crimes, it's just crime. 

 

Is this the same incident?

 

[notme]

1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

Is this the same incident?

Yes. It was the shopkeeper who allegedly started the rumor that the boy announced that he is Muslim. If that's true, I wonder what motivated him to say that. 

[Haji 2003]

French schools abaya ban

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"It will no longer be possible to wear an abaya at school," EducationMinister Gabriel Attal told TF1 television, saying he would give "clear rules at the national level" to school heads ahead of the return to classes nationwide from September 4.

The move comes after months of debate over the wearing of abayas in French schools, where women have long been banned from wearing the Islamic headscarf.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230827-french-education-minister-announces-ban-on-islamic-abayas-in-schools

 

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It [The education ministry] described the abaya as one of a group of items of clothing whose wearing could be banned if they were "worn in a manner as to openly display a religious affiliation". The circular put bandannas and long skirts in the same category.

 

[Diaz]

25 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

French schools abaya ban

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230827-french-education-minister-announces-ban-on-islamic-abayas-in-schools

 

 

First hijab and now abaya, may allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) curse them. 

[Haji 2003]

1 hour ago, Diaz said:

First hijab and now abaya, may allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) curse them. 

It gets worse, they're taking down the rest of Europe:

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Europe's top human rights organisation has pulled posters from a campaign that promoted respect for Muslim women who choose to wear headscarves after provoking opposition in France.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59149035