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In the Name of God بسم الله

Calling Upon The Saints

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(salam)

And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord; (3:169)

If you take this verse litteraly as those who say it is permissible to call upon the dead, and read theses verses

Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. Allah can make any that He wills to hear; but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves. (35:22)

Is not Allah enough for his Servant? But they try to frighten thee with other (gods) besides Him! for such as Allah leaves to stray, there can be no guide. (39:36)

If you call upon them, they hear not your call, and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. (35:14)

You have 2 options:

1. Allah (swt) is contradicting himself (istaghfirullah).

2. You don't understand the meaning of the verse 3:169.

And most surely it is option 2. I am saddened of this huge ignorance among those who say they love Ahlul bayt yet perform actions that they fought against their whole lives.

And should you ask them, Who created the heavens and the earth? They would most certainly say: Allah. Say: Have you then considered that what you call upon besides Allah, would they, if Allah desire to afflict me with harm, be the removers of His harm, or (would they), if Allah desire to show me mercy, be the withholders of His mercy? Say: Allah is sufficient for me; on Him do the reliant rely. (39:08)

It is not clear in this verse that Allah (swt) considers those who say "Allah created everything" and yet call upon other than him are liars? Not only that, but that Allah (swt) is sufficient to his servant? IS HE SUFFICIENT OR NOT TO ANSWER YOUR DUA? IF SO, WHY DO YOU SUPPLICATE UPON OTHER THAN HIM?

What makes me mad is that there is not one surah in the Quran that does not speak about not calling other than him. The Quran is FILLED with verses that clearly prohibit calling upon other than Allah (swt). Please, brothers, please, do not substitute shirk with Haqq, and Haqq with shirk. Your understanding of intercession is WRONG and shakes the heart of the believer. Keep your faith in Allah (swt) instead of sinking your heart into doubt thinking Allah (swt) is not sufficient to answer your call, or that he does not care and know of your needs.

Say: O my servants! who have acted extravagantly against their own souls, do not despair of the mercy of Allah; surely Allah forgives the faults altogether; surely He is the Forgiving the Merciful. (39:53)

What more do you need? Tell me if you are sincere in your heart, if indeed the words of Allah (swt) mean anything to you, how can you call upon other than Allah (swt) for help when He himself says this?

And your Lord says: Call upon Me, I will answer you; surely those who are too proud for My service shall soon enter hell abased. (40:60)

Lovers of Muhammad (pbuh) and Ahlul bayt, how can you reject such a magnificent command from your Lord?

Du'a is one of the fundamental acts of worship, do not give worship to those who cannot benefit nor harm you. I repeat, supplication is an act of worship.

When our Messengers (the angels) come to them to take their souls, they will say: 'Where are those whom you used to invoke and worship besides Allah,'they will reply, 'They have vanished and deserted us. 'And they will bear witness against themselves, that they were disbelievers." (7:37)

Will your intercessors answer your prayers? Read the verse, if truly you love Allah (swt).

Do not fall into this cultural phenomenon of jahl. This is jahl, and quite frankly it is among the most dangerous jahl.

As for saying your intention is not to worship them, know that intentions have no value when committing a haram act, even less when your actions speak against your words.

One who steals money and says his intention is to give sadaqa, his intention doesn't even matter and he is still considered a thief. And one who steals and says that his intention is sadaqa is also a liar. Beware, one cannot do haram to do good, so don't use the excuse of intention to justify haram.

Likewise, saying "Ya X Madad", one cannot even claim to even mean that he was intends intercession, just like one who says "Allah is evil" cannot claim that he meant that Allah creates both good and evil. Clearly, words are recorded, so be cautious. Do not resort to emotional whims. You can love ahlul bayt the way Rassul Allah (pbuh) wants you to love them by respecting what they love and preached which is Allah's right to be invoked without any other association.

The Prophet (pbuh) asked Allah (swt) directly, and should be the example to you, therefore ask Allah (swt) directly, for this is Sirat al-Mustaqim in it's purest sense. There are no detours in Islam.

If you still insist it isn't shirk, then I ask you, what is shirk if this isn't it? And how can you claim what you claim while disregarding the panoply of verses that speak against it?

(salam)

Edited by fallah
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Dua' tawassal (Intercession Prayer)

O Allah, I beseech Thee, and turn towards Thee, through Thy Prophet, the Prophet of Mercy, Muhammad, may Allah Bless him and his Progeny, and grant them peace.

Qur'an Al-Kareem

Allah! There is no god but He,- the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory). S. 2:255

Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition? S. 10:3

On the day when We shall gather the righteous unto the Beneficent, a goodly company. And drive the guilty unto hell, a weary herd, They will have no power of intercession, save him who hath made a covenant with his Lord. S. 19:85-87

On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by (Allah) Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him. S. 20:109

Allah (swt) asked all the angels and the jinns to bow down to Adam.

Would you bow down to the Prophet Muhammad (He's higher in status than Adam (as))? A Salafi would say it's shirk. But if Allah (swt) commands it, and you disobeyed, then you've basically done what Iblees did.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

The verse 3:169 is very easily answered simply by looking at the very next verse:

وَلاَ تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ قُتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ أَمْوَاتًا بَلْ أَحْيَاء عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ يُرْزَقُونَ

Never think of those who are slain in the Way of God as dead. Rather they are alive, and with their Lord they have provision,

فَرِحِينَ بِمَا آتَاهُمُ اللّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ وَيَسْتَبْشِرُونَ بِالَّذِينَ لَمْ يَلْحَقُواْ بِهِم مِّنْ خَلْفِهِمْ أَلاَّ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

content with what God has give them of His bounty and rejoicing for those they left behind who have not yet joined them and they have nothing to fear nor grieve. (3:169-170)

It appears to show that those who die in the way of God are not with us, like some who quote 3:169 (and the one in al-Baqarah) would like us to think.

was salam

Edited by lotfilms
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Dua' tawassal (Intercession Prayer)

O Allah, I beseech Thee, and turn towards Thee, through Thy Prophet, the Prophet of Mercy, Muhammad, may Allah Bless him and his Progeny, and grant them peace.

Look to whom the dua is adressed. The dua is asked solely to Allah. Not to the prophet. This is correct.

To say "O Muhammad I beseech thee" is haram.

Direct your dua to Allah, that is what Allah has said over and over.

Allah (swt) asked all the angels and the jinns to bow down to Adam.

Would you bow down to the Prophet Muhammad (He's higher in status than Adam (as))? A Salafi would say it's shirk. But if Allah (swt) commands it, and you disobeyed, then you've basically done what Iblees did.

Where does Allah say "bow down to Muhammad and ask others than Me to grant you what you need?"

(salam)

btw, I do not call myself salafi or any other denominations.

Edited by fallah
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lotfilms, what is your view if one asks Allah (swt) through His loved ones?

for example if I pray, O Allah! guide me in this matter bahaqay Mohammad wa aalay Mohammad?

Never direct your dua to other than Allah, so this dua would be correct.

Your mind, your heart and your intention should be to Allah and only Allah in acts of Ibadah, and nobody will argue and say that dua is not ibadah.

Edited by fallah
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(bismillah)

(salam)

lotfilms, what is your view if one asks Allah (swt) through His loved ones?

for example if I pray, O Allah! guide me in this matter bahaqay Mohammad wa aalay Mohammad?

This is the type of tawassul that our Imams (as) teach us in authentic ahadith, so I have no problem with it. I call to Allah(swt) this way sometimes myself.

was salam

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^Thank you for your input. If lotfilm shares your view then I am sure that all our friends on Shiachat will agree with what he has stated.

I am agitated to hear people call saints and others than Allah believing that this shirk is intercession in dua.

The way you said it is accepted, even the hardcore sunnis accept it. The reason is that by saying "O Allah, by the Truth of X, grant me this", you are directing your dua to Allah without anyone else involved in the reception of your dua. You are asking directly Allah for something, and putting emphasis on it by saying "by the truth of ". Likewise, calling Allah by his Most Beautiful Names is another way to put emphasis in your dua. Also you can say "O Allah we have believed so please forgive us or give us help etc". In this case you put emphasis through the fact that you believed in Him and in Islam.

Remember, when you are in need, Allah knows and expects us to call unto Him and only Him.

(salam)

Edited by fallah
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(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother fallah, i would like to point out that most of the people who do tawassul don't do it they way you think by saying, for example, "Ya Ali, please cure me"

Rather, most of them say, "Ya Ali, please ask Allah(swt) to cure me"

i personally avoid this for reasons too long to list here atm, but i just wanted to point this out for the sake of fairness, just so you see where these people are coming from.

was salm

Edited by lotfilms
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(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother fallah, i would like to point out that most of the people who do tawassul don't do it they way you think by saying, for example, "Ya Ali, please cure me"

Rather, most of them say, "Ya Ali, please ask Allah(swt) to cure me"

(salam)

Bro i'm pretty sure its the other way around, people just say Ya Ali, and say what their dua is.

(wasalam)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother fallah, i would like to point out that most of the people who do tawassul don't do it they way you think by saying, for example, "Ya Ali, please cure me"

Rather, most of them say, "Ya Ali, please ask Allah(swt) to cure me"

i personally avoid this for reasons too long to list here atm, but i just wanted to point this out for the sake of fairness, just so you see where these people are coming from.

was salm

(wasalam)

I was speaking against this type of tawassul. Allah says in the Quran you cannot make the dead hear, ask Allah directly and that theses intercessors will not fulfill their calls. Allah clearly says do not invoke other than Him, so by saying "O Ali, so and so" they are not directing their dua to Allah, but to Ali, and we both know dua is an act of worship, intended or not.

Edit: Don't people know what the people of Nuh did in the past? And that he was sent for 950 years and only a handful did Allah save? Exactly this: They called unto pious people. First generation they erected statues just to remember theses good people. The generation after it they began to take them as intercessors with Allah, meaning they went to them and called unto them instead of Allah. Nuh was sent to get them out of this shirk for 950 years. Result? Most disbelieved and refused to abandon what their fathers did. And honestly I am seeing this with some shias. Pictures of the saints, calling upon their names, etc.

Edited by fallah
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Again why some still ignore Allah's ORDER in 2:154:

Allah All-knowing says in Quran 2:154:

أعوذ بالله من الشيطٰن الرجيم بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

وَلَا تَقُولُوا۟ لِمَن يُقْتَلُ فِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ أَمْوَٰتٌۢ ۚ بَلْ أَحْيَآءٌۭ وَلَٰكِن لَّا تَشْعُرُونَ

Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of Allah, "They are dead"; they are alive but you do not feel it.

FROM NOW ON, ANYONE WHO KNOWS OF THIS VERSE AND STILL INSIST THAT THE PROPHET (pbuh+f) OR THE IMAMS as.gif ARE DEAD THEN HE/SHE IS COVERING THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS VERSE. MEANING HE/SHE IS KAFIR.

I have warned you ALL before Allah.

Ali Adams

God > infinity

Edited by aliadams
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Again why some still ignore Allah's ORDER in 2:154:

Allah All-knowing says in Quran 2:154:

ÃÚæÐ ÈÇááå ãä ÇáÔíØٰä ÇáÑÌíã ÈöÓúãö ٱááóøåö ٱáÑóøÍúãóٰäö ٱáÑóøÍöíãö

æóáóÇ ÊóÞõæáõæÇ۟ áöãóä íõÞúÊóáõ Ýöì ÓóÈöíáö ٱááóøåö ÃóãúæóٰÊñۢ ۚ Èóáú ÃóÍúíóÂÁñۭ æóáóٰßöä áóøÇ ÊóÔúÚõÑõæäó

Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of Allah, "They are dead"; they are alive but you do not feel it.

FROM NOW ON, ANYONE WHO KNOWS OF THIS VERSE AND STILL INSIST THAT THE PROPHET (pbuh+f) OR THE IMAMS as.gif ARE DEAD THEN HE/SHE IS COVERING THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS VERSE. MEANING HE/SHE IS KAFIR.

I have warned you ALL before Allah.

Ali Adams

God > infinity

Read post #3

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Read post #3

The QUR'AN in (2:154) does not refer to physical... Alive here means "spiritually alive". The "physical entity" of human can't reach the spiritual world. Only the spiritual part of human can communicate with spiritual World through our heart.

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I read post #3 and no one is saying this mortal body is of any significant.

Allah swt made all sexual pairs of three things (Body, Soul and of what we dont' know == Spirit) as per Quran 36:36.

So when Allah Almighty says in Quran 36:36:

أعوذ بالله من الشيطٰن الرجيم بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

سُبْحَٰنَ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَ ٱلْأَزْوَٰجَ

كُلَّهَا

مِمَّا تُنۢبِتُ ٱلْأَرْضُ وَمِنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَمِمَّا لَا يَعْلَمُونَ

Glory be to Him Who created

all the sexual pairs, of that which the earth growth, and of themselves, and of that which they know not!

Then it is perhaps better to explain this verse as:

"Glory to the One who created ALL sexual pairs out of three things;

Body grown out of earthly material (Quran 71:17),

their Souls (Quran 4:1),

and the already told about unknown Spirit (Quran 17:85)."

Interpreted by me.

Please see my book "Soul and Spirit" at www.heliwave.com for full details.

It is the soul that defines you as a being and it is the soul which enjoys Allah rewards or feel His punishment.

It is the soul of those who die normally that goes to Barzak and go into hibernation-like timeless world (== dead).

It is the soul of thtose who are killed by way of Allah that is not dead but free to wonder and watch our pitty chase after material (== mortal) desires.

It is the souls of our Prophet and Imams (pbu them all) that we communicate with if we have pure enough frequency.

Allah, Who is nearer to us than ourselves (== souls), advises us to ask for His Mercy through the much more purer (if not the pure) frequencies of our Prophet and Imams (pbu them all) to feel humble in comparison and know there is a hierachy in purity and we sit at the bottom of it as even the other prophets are not as pure as the holy 1+13 infallables.

Allah swt says in Quran 4:41:

أعوذ بالله من الشيطٰن الرجيم بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

فَكَيْفَ إِذَا جِئْنَا مِن كُلِّ أُمَّةٍۭ بِشَهِيدٍۢ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ عَلَىٰ هَٰٓؤُلَآءِ شَهِيدًۭا

So can the soul of our beloved Prophet (pbuh+f) give witness against other prophets' souls who lived before and after itself unless it was seeing what it was going on before and after coming into this time-bound virtual domain???

That would be like the Egyptian play: SHAID MA SHAFISH HAAGA :)

Istaghfur Allah if I went too far and Allah of course knows best and control all in real-time.

Ali Adams

God > infinity

Edited by aliadams
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Allah, Who is nearer to us than ourselves (== souls), advises us to ask for His Mercy through the much more purer (if not the pure) frequencies of our Prophet and Imams (pbu them all) to feel humble in comparison and know there is a hierachy in purity and we sit at the bottom of it as even the other prophets are not as pure as the holy 1+13 infallables.

Ali Adams

God > infinity

Salam Bro Ali...

Indeed we sit at the very bottom... many don't understand! They would rather by-pass the Pure Souls (1+13). They forget that we supposed to "hold on to these pure souls" in order to be guided in our journey to reach Allah swt. These Pure souls are our Prophet and Imams who would lead us to HIM (the purpose of Imamate) ... in never ending journey (in this world and in the hereafter). They taught that the Prophet and Imams (as) are just physical entities and the spiritual aspect (the souls) is not significant at all.

Layman

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Again why some still ignore Allah's ORDER in 2:154:

Allah All-knowing says in Quran 2:154:

أعوذ بالله من الشيطٰن الرجيم بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

وَلَا تَقُولُوا۟ لِمَن يُقْتَلُ فِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ أَمْوَٰتٌۢ ۚ بَلْ أَحْيَآءٌۭ وَلَٰكِن لَّا تَشْعُرُونَ

Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of Allah, "They are dead"; they are alive but you do not feel it.

FROM NOW ON, ANYONE WHO KNOWS OF THIS VERSE AND STILL INSIST THAT THE PROPHET (pbuh+f) OR THE IMAMS as.gif ARE DEAD THEN HE/SHE IS COVERING THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS VERSE. MEANING HE/SHE IS KAFIR.

I have warned you ALL before Allah.

Ali Adams

God > infinity

They are dead. Physically dead. They have passed away. Get over it. The verse means they are enjoying their time in the grave, for they have been righteous. Don't let your love for them make you say kufr. You're going way too far with this.

You ignored 95% of the Quran just to believe in this verse literally. Have you even read the verses I posted?

And if they are not dead but alive, then I seriously wonder why you cry for Hussein's death.

39:30 Surely you (Prophet) shall die and they (too) shall surely die.

Edited by fallah
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The QUR'AN in (2:154) does not refer to physical... Alive here means "spiritually alive". The "physical entity" of human can't reach the spiritual world. Only the spiritual part of human can communicate with spiritual World through our heart.

Where do you get this define (from Quran) "Only the spiritual part of human can communicate with spiritual World through our heart."?

Edited by Zufa
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@fallah

Istaghfur, haven't you heard Allah Saying in Quran 3:144:

ÃóÚõæÐõ Èöٱááøóåö ãöäó ٱáÔøóíØٰä öö ٱáÑøóÌöíãö ÈöÓúãö ٱááøóåö ٱáÑøóÍúãóٰäö ٱáÑøóÍöíãö

æóãóÇ ãõÍóãøóÏñ ÅöáøóÇ ÑóÓõæáñۭ ÞóÏú ÎóáóÊú ãöä ÞóÈúáöåö ٱáÑøõÓõáõ ۚ ÃóÝóÅöí۟ä ãøóÇÊó Ãóæú ÞõÊöáó ٱäÞóáóÈúÊõãú Úóáóìٰٓ ÃóÚúÞóٰÈößõãú ۚ æóãóä íóäÞóáöÈú Úóáóìٰ ÚóÞöÈóíúåö Ýóáóä íóÖõÑøó ٱááøóåó ÔóíúÜٔðۭÇ ۗ æóÓóíóÌúÒöì ٱááøóåõ ٱáÔøóٰßöÑöíäó

Why would Allah swt give two options?

I advise you to go and pray two ruk3a and

sincerely beg Allah for mercy immediately

for you are in a big trouble for saying so.

Quran 24:15

ÃóÚõæÐõ Èöٱááøóåö ãöäó ٱáÔøóíØٰä öö ٱáÑøóÌöíãö ÈöÓúãö ٱááøóåö ٱáÑøóÍúãóٰäö ٱáÑøóÍöíãö

ÅöÐú ÊóáóÞøóæúäóåõۥ ÈöÃóáúÓöäóÊößõãú æóÊóÞõæáõæäó ÈöÃóÝúæóÇåößõã ãøóÇ áóíúÓó áóßõã Èöåöۦ Úöáúãñۭ æóÊóÍúÓóÈõæäóåõۥ åóíøöäðۭÇ æóåõæó ÚöäÏó ٱááøóåö ÚóÙöíãñۭ

Ali Adams

God > infinity

Salam Bro Ali...

Indeed we sit at the very bottom... many don't understand! They would rather by-pass the Pure Souls (1+13). They forget that we supposed to "hold on to these pure souls" in order to be guided in our journey to reach Allah swt. These Pure souls are our Prophet and Imams who would lead us to HIM (the purpose of Imamate) ... in never ending journey (in this world and in the hereafter). They taught that the Prophet and Imams as.gif are just physical entities and the spiritual aspect (the souls) is not significant at all.

Layman

Thank you brother "Layman" for your support.

May Allah reward us with knowledge to serve humanity and soooon in sha Allah :)

Ali

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39:30 Surely you (Prophet) shall die and they (too) shall surely die.

Every soul will taste death before Judgment Day. If you really wanted to learn something about your most important thing in your whole life which is your relationship with Allah swt (called religion) then you should've read the meaning of this verse before using it.

Look there is more like this too:

Quran 3:185:

ÃóÚõæÐõ Èöٱááøóåö ãöäó ٱáÔøóíØٰä öö ٱáÑøóÌöíãö ÈöÓúãö ٱááøóåö ٱáÑøóÍúãóٰäö ٱáÑøóÍöíãö

ßõáøõ äóÝúÓòۢ ÐóÇٓÆöÞóÉõ ٱáúãóæúÊö ۗ æóÅöäøóãóÇ ÊõæóÝøóæúäó ÃõÌõæÑóßõãú íóæúãó ٱáúÞöíóٰãóÉö ۖ Ýóãóä ÒõÍúÒöÍó Úóäö ٱáäøóÇÑö æóÃõÏúÎöáó ٱáúÌóäøóÉó ÝóÞóÏú ÝóÇÒó ۗ æóãóÇ ٱáúÍóíóæٰÉõ ٱáÏøõäúíóÇٓ ÅöáøóÇ ãóÊóٰÚõ ٱáúÛõÑõæÑö

Allah swt says "DO NOT SAY DEAD BUT ALIVE" in 2:154 and you ignorantly say "they are dead".

No they are not dead now but will die at the first Trumpet blow just as all other martyrs (shaheed = witnessed!!! just think of the meaning of this word) as per Quran 36:29:

ÃóÚõæÐõ Èöٱááøóåö ãöäó ٱáÔøóíØٰä öö ٱáÑøóÌöíãö ÈöÓúãö ٱááøóåö ٱáÑøóÍúãóٰäö ٱáÑøóÍöíãö

Åöä ßóÇäóÊú ÅöáøóÇ ÕóíúÍóÉðۭ æóٰÍöÏóÉðۭ ÝóÅöÐóÇ åõãú ÎóٰãöÏõæäó

See the word ÎóٰãöÏõæäó which is similar to hibernation.

All alive (still going about their business) people of Earth then will also die on the first blow as per Quran 36:49:

ÃóÚõæÐõ Èöٱááøóåö ãöäó ٱáÔøóíØٰä öö ٱáÑøóÌöíãö ÈöÓúãö ٱááøóåö ٱáÑøóÍúãóٰäö ٱáÑøóÍöíãö

ãóÇ íóäÙõÑõæäó ÅöáøóÇ ÕóíúÍóÉðۭ æóٰÍöÏóÉðۭ ÊóÃúÎõÐõåõãú æóåõãú íóÎöÕøöãõæäó

and then all of us come back to life on the second blow of the Trumpet as per (Quran 36:53)

ÃóÚõæÐõ Èöٱááøóåö ãöäó ٱáÔøóíØٰä öö ٱáÑøóÌöíãö ÈöÓúãö ٱááøóåö ٱáÑøóÍúãóٰäö ٱáÑøóÍöíãö

Åöä ßóÇäóÊú ÅöáøóÇ ÕóíúÍóÉðۭ æóٰÍöÏóÉðۭ ÝóÅöÐóÇ åõãú ÌóãöíÚñۭ áøóÏóíúäóÇ ãõÍúÖóÑõæäó

Please do yourself a favour and format your brain before reading my book

Soul and Spirit

so may Allah reward you and me with some new knoweldge by your unbiased feedback

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It is the souls of our Prophet and Imams (pbu them all) that we communicate with if we have pure enough frequency.

What are you talking about, and where do get your assumptions about communicate.

Edited by Zufa
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Every soul will taste death before Judgment Day. If you really wanted to learn something about your most important thing in your whole life which is your relationship with Allah swt (called religion) then you should've read the meaning of this verse before using it.

Look there is more like this too:

Quran 3:185:

أَعُوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيطٰن ِِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

كُلُّ نَفْسٍۢ ذَآئِقَةُ ٱلْمَوْتِ ۗ وَإِنَّمَا تُوَفَّوْنَ أُجُورَكُمْ يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَٰمَةِ ۖ فَمَن زُحْزِحَ عَنِ ٱلنَّارِ وَأُدْخِلَ ٱلْجَنَّةَ فَقَدْ فَازَ ۗ وَمَا ٱلْحَيَوٰةُ ٱلدُّنْيَآ إِلَّا مَتَٰعُ ٱلْغُرُورِ

Allah swt says "DO NOT SAY DEAD BUT ALIVE" in 2:154 and you ignorantly say "they are dead".

No they are not dead now but will die at the first Trumpet blow just as all other martyrs (shaheed = witnessed!!! just think of the meaning of this word) as per Quran 36:29:

أَعُوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيطٰن ِِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

إِن كَانَتْ إِلَّا صَيْحَةًۭ وَٰحِدَةًۭ فَإِذَا هُمْ خَٰمِدُونَ

See the word خَٰمِدُونَ which is similar to hibernation.

All alive (still going about their business) people of Earth then will also die on the first blow as per Quran 36:49:

أَعُوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيطٰن ِِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

مَا يَنظُرُونَ إِلَّا صَيْحَةًۭ وَٰحِدَةًۭ تَأْخُذُهُمْ وَهُمْ يَخِصِّمُونَ

and then all of us come back to life on the second blow of the Trumpet as per (Quran 36:53)

أَعُوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيطٰن ِِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

إِن كَانَتْ إِلَّا صَيْحَةًۭ وَٰحِدَةًۭ فَإِذَا هُمْ جَمِيعٌۭ لَّدَيْنَا مُحْضَرُونَ

Please do yourself a favour and format your brain before reading my book Soul and Spirit

so may Allah reward you and me with some new knoweldge by your unbiased feedback

You're inventing your own religion out of nothingness.

And the verse that says that they did not die but are alive in fact goes against this whole "mourning" for the shaheeds. It points out that one should not be sad for those who died as martyrs, yet you become in a drunken state of sadness for Hussein. Clearly you are the one who is wrong, because if you wish to interpret theses verses like that, you're saying that Allah is contradicting himself. Death is a reality, and being alive in the grave is a metaphor.

3:144 “Muhammad is no more than an Apostle: many were the Apostles that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will you then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.”

Edited by fallah
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You're inventing your own religion out of nothingness.

And the verse that says that they did not die but are alive in fact goes against this whole "mourning" for the shaheeds. It points out that one should not be sad for those who died as martyrs, yet you become in a drunken state of sadness for Hussein. Clearly you are the one who is wrong, because if you wish to interpret theses verses like that, you're saying that Allah is contradicting himself. Death is a reality, and being alive in the grave is a metaphor.

Sigh, looks like another one has been diagnosed with the disease of literalism.

Heres a quick history lesson for you, the Prophet himself called the year in which Khadija and Abu Talib died, the 'year of grief' (aam ul-huzn).

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3:144 "Muhammad is no more than an Apostle: many were the Apostles that passed away before him. If he died or were slain (killed), will you then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude."

So why would Allah swt say "... if he died or were killed ..." ?

Answer to this if you were truthful!

See also 3:55 and the use of word "WAFAAT" == "Mutawafeeka"

أَعُوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيطٰن ِِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

إِذْ قَالَ ٱللَّهُ يَٰعِيسَىٰٓ إِنِّى مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَىَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ وَجَاعِلُ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوآ۟ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ ٱلْقِيَٰمَةِ ۖ ثُمَّ إِلَىَّ مَرْجِعُكُمْ فَأَحْكُمُ بَيْنَكُمْ فِيمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ

Ali Adams

God > infinity

What are you talking about, and where do get your assumptions about communicate.

Read my book Soul and Spirit if you want to know the answer.

If however you are just condeming me then Lekum Deenakum wa leya Deen

Ali Adams

God > infinity

Subhaan Allah smile.gif

Quran 3:185:

أَعُوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيطٰن ِِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

كُلُّ نَفْسٍۢ ذَآئِقَةُ ٱلْمَوْتِ ۗ وَإِنَّمَا تُوَفَّوْنَ أُجُورَكُمْ يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَٰمَةِ ۖ فَمَن زُحْزِحَ عَنِ ٱلنَّارِ وَأُدْخِلَ ٱلْجَنَّةَ فَقَدْ فَازَ ۗ وَمَا ٱلْحَيَوٰةُ ٱلدُّنْيَآ إِلَّا مَتَٰعُ ٱلْغُرُورِ

Who dose the zahzaha (stepwise displacement away from Hell) for us except for SHAFAA3A (intercession)? smile.gif

Edited by aliadams
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Read my book Soul and Spirit if you want to know the answer.

If however you are just condeming me then Lekum Deenakum wa leya Deen

I don't have time for reading your book right now, it is benefit for just answering my question.

Quran 3:185:

Yeah just give your selection of quranic verses which have nothing to do with my question.

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Here is the section that answers where do I get my assumptions about communication from:

-----------------------

Nearness to God

In Islam, to bless (صلاة على) means "to wish someone to be brought nearer to Allah" while to curse (لعنة على) means "to wish someone to be kept further away from Allah" this is why we call prayer Salaat (صلاة) which is the act of trying to be nearer to Allah and this is why we offer Salawat (صلاة على) to our Prophet and his family so may Allah bring them even nearer to Himself.

So what does nearer to or further from mean? I think, and Allah knows best, that because Allah says is Quran 24:35: Allah is The Light of Heavens and Earth, that coming nearer to Allah means getting rid of all impure frequencies and keep only main harmonics to be in tune with Allah's Pure frequency (a pure circle of π to the infinite decimal).

This is exactly what is meant by Quran 33:33:

أعوذ بالله من الشيطٰن الرجيم بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

َقَرْنَ فِى بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ ٱلْجَٰهِلِيَّةِ ٱلْأُولَىٰ ۖ وَأَقِمْنَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتِينَ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَأَطِعْنَ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُۥٓ ۚ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ ٱللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ ٱلرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ ٱلْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا

And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you exponentially.

Conversely, making further away from Allah means add impurity and out of synch non-harmonic frequencies to a deserving selfish soul until it becomes a complete Square requiring infinite approximations to become near to Allah, the Pure Circle [http://en.wikipedia..../Fourier_series] and that is the worst punishment ever.

DIAGRAM HERE

Fourier approximation of a Square into an infinite series of sine waves

Moreover, when Allah, the Pure Light says in Quran 89:22:

أعوذ بالله من الشيطٰن الرجيم بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

وَجَآءَ رَبُّكَ وَٱلْمَلَكُ صَفًّا صَفًّا

And when your Lord comes, and the angels, row upon row.

This verse may mean Allah's pure frequency will propagates encompassing and enveloping all His angels which are almost pure but not quite as they still consists of harmonics or multiples of Allah's fundamental single frequency.

Now, all praise due to Allah for purifying our beloved Prophet and his family more than even the purest of angels Gabriel, and that is why the Prophet (pbuh+f) was able to go through the higher energy layers of heavens further than Gabriel (as) and be closer to Allah, The Pure (قاب قوسين أو أدنى).

All praise is due to Allah, the God of all worlds, Seen and Unseen, may He forgive me for any errors inadvertently introduced with this concept, and correct me in due time in sha Allah.

------------

You are missing a diagram here so please refer to the pdf book Page 22-23 on my website (www.heliwave.com) for a properly formatted version.

Ali

Edited by aliadams
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Sigh, looks like another one has been diagnosed with the disease of literalism.

Heres a quick history lesson for you, the Prophet himself called the year in which Khadija and Abu Talib died, the 'year of grief' (aam ul-huzn).

The arabs should have inhereted their ancestors' ability to distinguish the literal from the metaphorical. Clearly people of this day and age are unable to differ the 2.

I don't even understand how people can convince themselves that the Prophet has not died. Are people that blind? Have any of you ever sat down and thought about the quran message, instead of following your cultural beliefs?

56:60 We have ordained death among you and We are not to be overcome,

63:11 And Allah does not respite a soul when its appointed term has come, and Allah is Aware of what you do.

3:156 O you who believe! be not like those who disbelieve and say of their brethren when they travel in the earth or engage in fighting: Had they been with us, they would not have died and they would not have been slain; so Allah makes this to be an intense regret in their hearts; and Allah gives life and causes death and Allah sees what you do.

3:185 Every soul shall taste of death, and you shall only be paid fully your reward on the resurrection day; then whoever is removed far away from the fire and is made to enter the garden he indeed has attained the object; and the life of this world is nothing but a provision of vanities.

23:99-100 Until when death overtakes one of them, he says: Send me back, my Lord, send me back; In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected. - "By no means! It is but a word he says.- Before them is a Partition till the Day they are raised up.

When you are put in your grave, you are dead. Common sense is not so common it seems.

Is not the last verse clear enough that the state of death is different then that of life?

The dead are in need of our dua. Not the contrary, because the dead cannot go back on earth to ask forgiveness or do more deeds. So please, no dead man is going to save you, for he wasn't even able to save himself.

Edited by fallah
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(salam)

Surly people die without being killed.

As example two men

one who went to battle and was killed in the fight

the other who who lived very long until in his old age he reached death and died.

As for the next stage after one goes through death of course there is the next stage.

there is life stage in which we are here, there is the stage after someone dies in which is to come, then there is stage after resurrection.

and of course someone can give salam to someone who is in the next stage.

but they should not ask them for help as if they were similar to Allah.

there is either an excessive view on this which is wrong, and a negligent view on this which is wrong however there is a middle view that is right.

(wasalam)

Edited by AlMuttaqi
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Your prayer will be extremely accepted, especially your salams to the Prophet and 3ibaad Allah al-Ssaliheen (as) !!!

OK I am out of here.

Salam

Ali

Inshallah.

Because of course, saying salams to the Prophet has nothing to do with asking him to help me like the chrsitians do with Jesus.

(wasalam)

(salam)

Surly people die without being killed.

As example two men

one who went to battle and was killed in the fight

the other who who lived very long until in his old age he reached death and died.

As for the next stage after one goes through death of course there is the next stage.

there is life stage in which we are here, there is the stage after someone dies in which is to come, then there is stage after resurrection.

(wasalam)

They both died, it is a decree from Allah. We are not discussing the types of death. This world is not permanent, just like every leaf on a tree must fall down, each person will have to go back to the dirt. This is what Allah has decided, and to say that Nabi has not died is an innovation and as we can see has lead to shirk. There was a verse that I quoted that was revealed specifically for people who would not want to believe that the Prophet will die.

but they should not ask them for help as if they were similar to Allah.

Asking help from them is by itself as if they were saying they are similar to Allah. Allah decides what is shirk, and it is clear that to supplicate to other than Allah is shirk.

Edited by fallah
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(salam)

Let's see what I've just found:

Abu Hafs, Umar b. Muhammad b. Ali al-Sayrafl, reported to me from Ja'far b. Muhammad al-Hasani, who reported from Isa b. Mehran, who reported from Yunus b. Muhammad, who reported from Abdul Rahman Ibn al-Ghaseel, who reported from Abdul Rahman b. Khallad al-Ansari, from Ikrarmah, from Abdullah b. Abbas who said:

Ali b. Abi Talib (as), al-Abbas b. Abdul Muttalib and al-Fadhl b. al-Abbas called upon the Prophet, peace be upon him and his progeny, in the last days of his illness, and said: "O messenger of Allah, these Ansar have gathered in the mosque, ladies and men, weeping over you." He asked: "What makes them weep?" They said: "They fear you might die." He said: "Hold me by your hands," then he came out, wrapped in his blanket and headcloth and sat on the pulpit. He thanked Allah and glorified His name, and then said:

"O people, what makes you feel unusual about your Prophet's death? Have I not announced death to you and have you not announced deaths among your own people? If there had been someone before me, and then the angel of death had come to him later, I would have also remained with you for that long. Be it known that I am going to meet my Sustainer, and I have left among you something, if you adhere to it, you will not be lost. The Book of Allah is with you, read it at dawn and dusk. And do not be each others' rivals, nor envious, not harbour any enmity against each other. Remain brothers as commanded by Allah. And then I have left behind my family, my Ahlul Bait, and I enjoin upon you about them.

And then I enjoin upon you about these people of Ansar, whose hardship for the sake of Allah, His Prophet and the believers are known to you. Did they not widen their houses and distribute equally their fruits? Did they not prefer others above themselves, though they were afflicted with poverty? So, whoever from among you is given any worthwhile authority, enabling him to harm or benefit, he should accept the righteous men from Ansar, and also forgive their evil-doers."

This was the last assembly in which he sat before he met with his Lord.

:o

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23:99-100 Until when death overtakes one of them, he says: Send me back, my Lord, send me back; In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected. - "By no means! It is but a word he says.- Before them is a Partition till the Day they are raised up.

When you are put in your grave, you are dead. Common sense is not so common it seems.

Is not the last verse clear enough that the state of death is different then that of life?

The dead are in need of our dua. Not the contrary, because the dead cannot go back on earth to ask forgiveness or do more deeds. So please, no dead man is going to save you, for he wasn't even able to save himself.

(bismillah)

(salam)

The Prophet SA and the Imams AS are not like ordinary people that you speak of them in this ^ way. Others quoted the Holy Qur'an that says: "Never think of those who are slain in the Way of God as dead. Rather they are alive, and with their Lord they have provision." So I repeat, they are alive. When we die, the Prophet SA and the Imams AS are the ones who will appear to us, in order to welcome us or God forbid, to ignore us if we had no love for them or hate us if we hated them. Astaghfirullah.

ÊóãËøõáõ ÇáäøóÈöíøö (Õóáøóíó Çááåõ Úóáóíåö æó Âáöåö) æóÇáÃÆöãøóÉö (Úóáóíåãõ ÇáøÓóáÇãõ) áöáãõÍÊóÖóÑö

The Appearance of the Prophet and the Imams to a Dying Person

45Ü ÇáÅãÇãõ ÇáÕøÇÏÞõ (Úóáóíåö ÇáøÓóáÇãõ): ãÇ íóãæÊõ ãõæÇáò áóäÇ ãõÈÛöÖñ áÃÚÏÇÆäÇ ÅáøÇ æíóÍÖõÑõåõ ÑÓæáõþÇááøåþö (Õóáøóíó Çááåõ Úóáóíåö æó Âáöåö) æÃãíÑõÇáãÄãäíäó æÇáÍÓäõ æÇáÍÓíäõ (Úóáóíåãõ ÇáøÓóáÇãõ) ÝóíóÓõÑøõæåõ æíõÈóÔøöÑæåõ¡ æÅä ßÇäó ÛíÑó ãõæÇáò áóäÇ íóÑÇåõã ÈÍóíËõ íóÓæÄåõ. æÇáÏøáíáõ Úáì Ðáßó Þóæáõ ÃãíÑö ÇáãÄãäíäó (Úóáóíåö ÇáøÓóáÇãõ) áÍÇÑËö ÇáåóãúÏÇäíøö:

íÇ ÍÇÑó åóãúÏÇäó ãóä íóãõÊú íóÑóäí

ãöä ãÄãäò Ãæ ãõäÇÝöÞò ÞõÈõáÇð.

45– Imam al-Sadiq AS said, ‘Every person who is dying and is a follower of us and hates our enemies will be visited by the Messenger of Allah (SAWA), the Commander of the Faithful, Hasan and Husayn, and they will make him happy, and give him glad tidings. But if he is not a follower of ours, he will see them according to how bad he had been.’ The proof of this is the saying of the Commander of the Faithful AS to Harith al-Hamdani:

‘O Har Hamdan, whoever dies will see me,

Both believer and hypocrite alike.’[Tafsir al-Qummi, v. 2, p. 265]

Source: http://www.darolhadith.com/modules.php?name=my_AlfabetMenu&vid=327&scid=4

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Dua' tawassal (Intercession Prayer)

Qur'an Al-Kareem

Allah (swt) asked all the angels and the jinns to bow down to Adam.

Would you bow down to the Prophet Muhammad (He's higher in status than Adam (as))? A Salafi would say it's shirk. But if Allah (swt) commands it, and you disobeyed, then you've basically done what Iblees did.

When you say "O Allah" you have adressed your Creator, and when person says "Ya Ali" he has adressed dead Ali ibn Abi Talib (as) who is whit Allah alive. Secpndly Allah ordered us to bow towards Kaaba. It is Allah who adresses his ibada to what direction He likes. You should mind that it was dnizn and Angels that where asked to bow, not humanbeings for otherhuman beings. So when you say "would you bow dow to the Prophet", the answer is no, but iblis shoud have. So it was proper for Angels that they bow Aadam (as).

Please dont twist the meanings.

Allah has power over us.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother fallah, i would like to point out that most of the people who do tawassul don't do it they way you think by saying, for example, "Ya Ali, please cure me"

Rather, most of them say, "Ya Ali, please ask Allah(swt) to cure me"

Those person are liars. Or do they see Ali (as) and Ali (as) speak back to them? If not, they are liars. They dont know Ali ibn Abi Talib (as), and they think they are talking to him in their imaginations. They are talking to themselves. Only Allah is all-Hearing, All-Seeing.

Edited by Ali Askari
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