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In the Name of God بسم الله

Are Torrents(filesharing) Haram?

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  • Advanced Member

Torrent is a file sharing technology - it is not haram or halal by itself.

If you are sharing, copying, uploading, viewing, or downloading a file for which you have permission from the producer of that file then that act is halal.

If you are downloading, copying, uploading, viewing, or sharing a file for which you do not have permission from the producers of that file then that is violating the terms of use for that file. Most producers of music, movies, software clearly state that doing all of the above is a crime unless stated otherwise in the terms of agreement. It really is no different than shoplifting.

You don't need a fatwa from a mujtahid to know that violating an agreement with anyone is wrong and therefore a sin, and also a crime by the way. Now if someone wants to still do it then that's on their conscience but let's not try to put a halal spin on it.

Edited by thepeacemaker
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  • 1 year later...
  • Veteran Member

Torrent is a file sharing technology - it is not haram or halal by itself.

If you are sharing, copying, uploading, viewing, or downloading a file for which you have permission from the producer of that file then that act is halal.

If you are downloading, copying, uploading, viewing, or sharing a file for which you do not have permission from the producers of that file then that is violating the terms of use for that file.

I don't agree, rights of ownership in Islam is recognised, fine, but I would even go as far as to say that stipulation of the use of property once owned is unislamic! To quote excerps from another site:

Whenever you rent a movie, the multinational media industry forces you to watch their propaganda. They claim that "downloading movies is the same as snatching bags, stealing cars or shoplifting." That’s simply not true – making a copy is fundamentally different from stealing.

The media industry has failed to offer viable legal alternatives and they will fail to convince consumers that sharing equals stealing. Unfortunately, they have succeeded in another area – lobbying to adapt laws to criminalize sharing, turning consumers into criminals. They argue that their laws are necessary to "support artists," but in reality all they’re protecting is their own profits.

We believe that consumers are willing to pay if offered good quality at a fair price. We also believe that sharing is expanding culture – not killing it.

I must say - even though I'd probably get chewed-out for this: Makes sense to me.

imageaxd.jpeg

Was-Salaam

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Well, it is an Islamic principle that the law of the land is the law, in general, except for extreme cases where the law commands you to something evil or prevents you from something essential.

There's also, it should be noted, the matter of de jure legal and de facto legal. The law always tends to lag behind the reality, and takes some time to catch up, especially in times of rapid technological change.

Making a reasonable number of copies, intended strictly for personal use or for temporary sharing in physical form or for small scale showing to a few friends is an example of something that while perhaps strictly speaking is illegal, is nevertheless not enforced, because, de facto, it's generally understood as fair use of something you already bought and own.

DVRs allow recording of live TV content, and Windows comes bundled with software that allows people to rip CDs and even DVDs, if I'm not mistaken. So some sensible copying is widely tolerated.

It's when the electronic copies are distributed so that people can get the equivalent indefinite ability to use and replay as there would be from purchasing the content, but without paying that things go, under generally understood legal reality, from grey to black.

And it makes some sense. It costs a lot of money to record an album or make a movie, with a lot of real, hard working people who are just trying to make a living working on it. Ultimately, if the content isn't paid for enough, the people who make the content don't get paid, and ultimately will be less inclined to create the content.

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I agree, there is a difference if somebody steals a book from the library or copies the whole book and puts it back onto the shelf.

I would not recommend anyone to download "Movies" or watch them or entertain themselves with it.

But there are some good documentaries on torrent, especially those made by the BBC (somehow all the American documentaries are more Hollywood then informative).

I see those documentaries kind of like audio-visual books. If I make a copy of it, it has not decreased the stack of DVD's they have piled up in their storage. I have not stolen anything, I have just duplicated it.

Regarding people who make a living with Music ... I would like to refer you to the ahadith quoted on this site (I am not associated to the site and I hope the owner does not mind me referring to it):

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/forbidden-transactions/ghina-singing

I have a book with even stronger (in the sense of condemnation) Ahadith regarding this topic.

Seriously... if you listen to music, you might as well not care if you buy or steal, since its HARAM anyway.

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And it makes some sense. It costs a lot of money to record an album or make a movie, with a lot of real, hard working people who are just trying to make a living working on it. Ultimately, if the content isn't paid for enough, the people who make the content don't get paid, and ultimately will be less inclined to create the content.

I agree with you here.

But I think it highlights a very important problem with our society in general.

It comes down to the profitability/ living-wage aspect, aside from exploitation,

some people become involved in the entertainment world for all the wrong

reasons; some want popularity, fame, wealth etc. These are not true artists.

I look forward to the day when artists (canvas/ film whatever) embrace the

ideology and ethos of Creative Commons. Contribute because humanity

is a family, contribute because you love what you do and most importantly

because doing anything artistic of your own for profit - is on some level ugly

it means that you have an industry price.

I've worked in advertising and I personally feel it's the closest thing to

a prostitution of the soul. I've digitally-sugar-coated things to sell to the

everyday people like myself and the only goal is to maximize the corps

profit. It hurts me to think at one level about how inhumane it is.

I believe that humanity has the potential to evolve from the current so-called

"free-market" capitalism, in which human-beings harm their own life sustaining

resources FOR PROFIT! And Graduate to something better, something beautiful,

an altruistic society that does things because they love to do, because they love

to share, because they love and respect this beautiful system that God (SWT)

has blessed us with, they preserve it and care for it. Such people are more worthy

of the honour of being called Allah's "Khalifahs" on earth.

I suppose I'm just a dreamer.

Was-Salaam

Edited by JawzofDETH
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I have researched this, and i can give you absolute certanity that it is HARAM because of a few reason.

Most of the Material(unless stated otherwise) being downloded by Torrent is actually copyrighted, and according to copyright laws you are stealing, and Islam requires that you respect the laws of another country/institution unless it is against Islamic law

Second refers back to the first point, in that you are in fact Stealing by their bounded contract which is with the material, regardless if it is a game or movies(not to mention that watching or playing these is haram even if purchased legally because you have supported Zionist companies and also watsed precious time Allah gave you)

Thirdly, you can only share with somebody who has actually purchased the product, and usually sharing does not occur between legit purchasers as they themselves have not purchased it, for clearly they are downloading it only in that they do not want to pay for it

Fourth point, even nowdays the only time you can copy anyone elses ibntellectual property9whether halal or haram) is IF YOU OWN THE ORIGINAL PRODUCT and have purchased it yourself

Also a last point, because of torrents and such "sharing" websites, most companies that sell interntaionaly or nationaly have made their product even illegal to lend to friends or share with others, as you can find in their copyright/conceptual statements

So unless you want to choose to be ignorant and "share" then you will be recompensated for this evil act, besides most of the things nowadays shared are a waste of time, and haram anyways because they watse the God given time you have, for every second is a gift, and Allah hates those who wastes his blessings inconsiderably and carelessly

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Day of Judgment:

Ok son, your bad deeds are 50%, and your good deeds are 50%. Your judgment is nearly done, there is one last action to be assessed ....

hmmmm, let's see here, oh yes, here it is ... You Downloaded and installed a copy of Windows. THIS WAS HARAM, YOU'RE OFF TO HELL!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooOOOooOoOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo............. CURSE YOU BILL GATESSSSsssssss

falling_into_hell.jpg

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Day of Judgment:

Ok son, your bad deeds are 50%, and your good deeds are 50%. Your judgment is nearly done, there is one last action to be assessed ....

hmmmm, let's see here, oh yes, here it is ... You Downloaded and installed a copy of Windows. THIS WAS HARAM, YOU'RE OFF TO HELL!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooOOOooOoOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo............. CURSE YOU BILL GATESSSSsssssss

falling_into_hell.jpg

Microsoft monopolized the OS market for pc's long time ago, only *free products were able to compete...

My Windows is 100% legit, but i bought an OEM version which according to Microsoft's terms should only be shipped out together with a system, but system builders sell them like that.

Now... Through their Monopoly and their terms they can sell the exactly same product (OEM version and retail version are 1:1 identical) for 30-40% more.

Who is going to issue a fatwa against me for buying the OEM version instead of the retail one?

What Microsoft does is criminal, they use their Monopoly to sell overpriced software!

Think about the Monopoly they've got with the Office Products!

The only viable alternative is to buy a completely overpriced Mac which has overpriced hardware instead of software...

And the commend about us being recompensed for the evil act of sharing by brother Yukapuka, makes me a bit angry since how can you say this with certainty... in the end of the day it is up to the Sovereign on the day of Judgment.

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Downloading torrents is NOT illegal, and thus, not haram. However, downloading copywritten material such as movies is illegal in most countries, and thus, also haram.

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Microsoft monopolized the OS market for pc's long time ago, only *free products were able to compete...

....

And the commend about us being recompensed for the evil act of sharing by brother Yukapuka, makes me a bit angry since how can you say this with certainty... in the end of the day it is up to the Sovereign on the day of Judgment.

Was being sarcastic bro :) It's obvious a person won't be punished for downloading a copy of Windows on the day of judgment. In fact the only reason MS made it so big was because they purposely made their software so easy to pirate, so it can spread and dominate the market.

Anyways, for all the torrenting folks out there, a little message .... SEED FOOL, LEACHING AINT COOL! ^_^ minimum share ratio 1:1 !!!!!

seed_your_torrents_its_only_right_tshirt-p235516205675068740t5tr_400.jpg

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I had a comprehensive post written last night which I saved to notepad because sc was off-line for while.

So when I post it later, note that it was suppose to come after yukapuka's post.

hmmmm, let's see here, oh yes, here it is ... You Downloaded and installed a copy of Windows. THIS WAS HARAM, YOU'RE OFF TO HELL!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooOOOooOoOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo............. CURSE YOU BILL GATESSSSsssssss

lol

Was being sarcastic bro :) It's obvious a person won't be punished for downloading a copy of Windows on the day of judgment. In fact the only reason MS made it so big was because they purposely made their software so easy to pirate, so it can spread and dominate the market.

Anyways, for all the torrenting folks out there, a little message .... SEED FOOL, LEACHING AINT COOL! ^_^ minimum share ratio 1:1 !!!!!

seed_your_torrents_its_only_right_tshirt-p235516205675068740t5tr_400.jpg

Where's the "Like" Button For This? :lol:

Edited by JawzofDETH
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The only viable alternative is to buy a completely overpriced Mac which has overpriced hardware instead of software...

Well bro, theres always Linux/ PCBSD if you want to sleep nice and peaceful.

http://www.ubuntu.com/

http://www.pcbsd.org/

--OR--

This one if you want a certified muslim-compatible OS:

http://www.sabily.org/website/ :lol:

This kills me:

powered1.png

Was-Salaam

Edited by JawzofDETH
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Microsoft monopolized the OS market for pc's long time ago, only *free products were able to compete...

My Windows is 100% legit, but i bought an OEM version which according to Microsoft's terms should only be shipped out together with a system, but system builders sell them like that.

Now... Through their Monopoly and their terms they can sell the exactly same product (OEM version and retail version are 1:1 identical) for 30-40% more.

Who is going to issue a fatwa against me for buying the OEM version instead of the retail one?

OEMs buy millions of licenses at one shot though. It's called a volume discount. Nothing strange or sinister about it at all.

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Second refers back to the first point, in that you are in fact Stealing by their bounded contract which is with the material, regardless if it is a game or movies(not to mention that watching or playing these is haram even if purchased legally because you have supported Zionist companies and also watsed precious time Allah gave you)

...don't see your research as that comprehensive.

You only look at negatives.

Not everything is a zionist plot. And it's pointless being a hypocrite about it.

You are probably using a PC/ MAC which has some components manufactured in Israel.

You have directly helped "Zionists companies" just by buying your computer.

Secondly like I said, zionists aren't the only people out there.

What happens if you want to download something informative,

but you don't have the means to pay (in order to support it's makers) for it?

Like this movie for instance: http://hellocoolworld.com/files/TheTake/TheTakeWINMEDIA.wmv

Both these people who made this documentary are against zionist aggression in Palestine.

I'm sorry if you feel that way but the holy Prophet of Islam (pbuh) himself said: "Every portion of knowledge is the lost property of the believer."

--and-- "The word of wisdom is the lost property of the believer, so wherever he finds it he has a better right to it."

And what if it's an educational game that DEFINITELY BENEFITS the user?

Again, you'd like to contribute to it's developers but you can't afford to,

Should you go without?

Like this one: Brain Train With Dr. Kawashima

Am I advocating theft? No.

Just human development without economic constraints as the deciding factor

for whom gets to further themselves and who doesn't.

I realise that what I'm saying can be abused,

But so can Muta, at the end of the day - like most

things on our lofty religon it comes down how

God-fearing you are and is the purpose/ outcome,

is it for good?

-- -- --

I will now recommend a totally free torrent that I think everyone will watch and hopefully take something from; gives hope for humanity:

The Yes Men Fix The World

Was-Salaam

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Just A Musing:

Our own Islamic history shows an "opensource" approach to matters of benefit shown by Muslims.

In the "House Of Knowledge" a library and place of study not unlike the "House Of Wisdom,"

paper, pens, ink were given out freely to people to help them in their studies.

Muslim Scholars took texts from Greek, Persian, Indian, Chinese and many more languages and

translated them into Arabic. Then people would be allowed to copy freely and many texts were

even exported.

Ibn Sina like many, many others took from Aristotle, Plato, Galen and others, perfected & gave to the world.

This was early file-sharing. As the text became more renowned people would order copies to be made,

these copiers/ seeders are the reason why many people benefited from this knowledge, unlike today

where only Academic types are allowed to enter special privileged areas/ journals and access the information

of other scholars, doctors, scientists etc. While we are grateful for the early seeders there wasn't many

of them that is why some source texts have been all but completely lost, but today we are the

beneficiaries of millions of leeches/ peers of old world-wide.

Moral of the Thought: Seed For The Good Of Mankind.

Was-Salaam

Edited by JawzofDETH
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Just A Musing:

Our own Islamic history shows an "opensource" approach to matters of benefit shown by Muslims.

In the "House Of Knowledge" a library and place of study not unlike the "House Of Wisdom,"

paper, pens, ink were given out freely to people to help them in their studies.

Muslim Scholars took texts from Greek, Persian, Indian, Chinese and many more languages and

translated them into Arabic. Then people would be allowed to copy freely and many texts were

even exported.

Ibn Sina like many, many others took from Aristotle, Plato, Galen and others, perfected & gave to the world.

This was early file-sharing. As the text became more renowned people would order copies to be made,

these copiers/ seeders are the reason why many people benefited from this knowledge, unlike today

where only Academic types are allowed to enter special privileged areas/ journals and access the information

of other scholars, doctors, scientists etc. While we are grateful for the early seeders there wasn't many

of them that is why some source texts have been all but completely lost, but today we are the

beneficiaries of millions of leeches/ peers of old world-wide.

Moral of the Thought: Seed For The Good Of Mankind.

Was-Salaam

+1 !!!

I have actually found, that if some documentaries were not available via torrent, there would be no way to access them, since they haven't been uploaded on youtube or the like either.

Edited by jasir
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The only viable alternative is to buy a completely overpriced Mac which has overpriced hardware instead of software...

Unless u use windoze at home for work or something that absolutely requires some sort of software that only windoze has ... u can easily switch to Ubuntu or Suse (that I use) for just about all home consumer type needs ... it is not quite as smooth, but it is also not a filled with viruses and doesnt hog space etc. There are options these days. At least try it (if u have not done so)

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