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Lester

Frontline "dancing Boys Of Afghanistan"

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Did anyone see this and/ or know about "bacha bazi"?

Some of the most important people in Afghanistan society are in the habit of buying and training very young boys for the purpose of training them to dance and sexually service men. I could not believe what I was seeing

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/etc/synopsis.html

Why haven't we heard about this before? How do these men justify this?

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Did anyone see this and/ or know about "bacha bazi"?

Some of the most important people in Afghanistan society are in the habit of buying and training very young boys for the purpose of training them to dance and sexually service men. I could not believe what I was seeing

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/etc/synopsis.html

Why haven't we heard about this before? How do these men justify this?

I take it you haven't read The Kite Runner?

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I take it you haven't read The Kite Runner?

I didn't read the book, I watched the movie instead, and now I understand the scene of where the boy, after being kidnapped by the Taliban, had make up smothered on his face and was dancing to music.

Wow. Speechless.

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I'm Afghan (lady) and this is a veryyy big issue to me and to the people I know. The problem is mentioned in Khaled Hosseini's 'Kite Runner' too.

But, I disagree with

The only way to stop bacha bazi is if you prosecute the people who commit the crime

The only way to stop it is to try and provide a better care for the orphans & poor of the society. Considering the fact that wealthy businessmen are behind this despicable crime against mankind, I strongly doubt that 'persecution' would stop them. As the article mentions it is an 'illegal' act and that doesn't seem to stop anyone.

InshAllah one day, someone will get his head out his own dunya and fix their world.

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I didn't read the Kite Runner. I figured it was so popular it was probably really corny I didn't know it was good.

Sodabeh - I agree theoretically but was very happy when the Frontline people made efforts to remove individual boys from these situations. root causes of course need to be addressed. At the same time, there are poor people in other parts of the world who don't have to deal with this particular phenomenon so it does need to be treated as a problem in and of itself outside of afghanistans larger quality of life issue.

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Sodabeh - I agree theoretically but was very happy when the Frontline people made efforts to remove individual boys from these situations.

I think anyone would be. In the quran it says that killing one innocent man is like killing the entire mankind, I think that saving an innocent man (be it from a bullet or blue eyeshadow) gives hope to mankind. It gives me hope.

At the same time, there are poor people in other parts of the world who don't have to deal with this particular phenomenon so it does need to be treated as a problem in and of itself outside of afghanistans larger quality of life issue.

Im not quite sure I understand what you're saying (bear with me, English is my 3rd language) but of course this is quite 'unique'. The poor people in other parts of the world have to deal with problems not much better than this, but I agree that my mind too was blown when I first discovered it.

Here is an idea, I was just doing some research on this issue among other issues and I came across something that MAY help us understand why these demons(who shall be annihilated, inshAllah) do what they do:

I think the woman has always been (somewhat) respected in these regions. Maybe as our religion also tells us, the woman is the sister, mother etc so this bacha bazi could be a result of trying to stay off prostitution (it exists too, of course).

MAYBE these men look at themselves as 'better' people than those that go to brothels because they may feel that although they're doing despicable acts, its still not prostitution? I don't know. Now it doesn't even make sense but I'm trying to think like the opponent in order to understand the opponent.

I wonder what the talibans view on all of this was... can't seem to find anything about when this started, however, comparison between boy play & Altar boy play

To be completely honest with you, I don't think people care. Empathy, my foot, brother. SO whether anyone will treat this as a problem, or anyone will dedicate time to change this seems improbable to me.

Yet thankyou for sharing your findings

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I think it shows how isolated afghanistan is. any country that had infrastructure, press corps, an other organized sort of society would not tolerate this but because afghanistan is diffuse and anarchic these guys can do it and the only ones they ahve to justify it to are themselves. How on earth they do that is beyond me but probably does have somehting to do with the mindset of attitudes towards women you are talking about

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Did anyone see this and/ or know about "bacha bazi"?

Some of the most important people in Afghanistan society are in the habit of buying and training very young boys for the purpose of training them to dance and sexually service men. I could not believe what I was seeing

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/etc/synopsis.html

Why haven't we heard about this before? How do these men justify this?

Bacha Bazi is a practice in countrysides in Afghanistan. Those who train or keep 'boys' are not important people. They are illiterate commanders of wars who happened to gain power in the last 3 decades. They are important because they hold guns. Also, Bacha bazi is not limited to Afghanistan...It also exists in neighboring countries 'Pakistan, Iran, Tajikistan' with different forms.

I take it you haven't read The Kite Runner?

The Kite Runner is politically motivated, aiming in targeting the Taliban regime.

Bacha Bazi and Bacha Bazingari (boy dancing) and all forms of homosexuality, dogfights, chicken fights and such activities common amongst villagers in Afghanistan were banned and prohibited under Taliban. Bacha Baz and homosexuals received death penalty under their rules.

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I think it shows how isolated afghanistan is. any country that had infrastructure, press corps, an other organized sort of society would not tolerate this but because afghanistan is diffuse and anarchic these guys can do it and the only ones they ahve to justify it to are themselves. How on earth they do that is beyond me but probably does have somehting to do with the mindset of attitudes towards women you are talking about

Indeed it is the 'villagers' way of doing this but I seem to find it more and more similar to the altar boys of italy & scandinavia(with the new scandals unravelling just a week ago)

@someone50

I truly, deeply hope you are not defending the 'taliban regime' by saying these kind of monstrocities received death penalty. Indeed, even today they are illegal and people are 'jailed', however, let out in a few months. Unfortunately.

The taliban regime committed acts worse, especially against the Shia of Ali(as). They declared shias to be 'non-muslims' and committed(may be committing to this day) acts that would make ANYONE want to poke their own eyes with forks. That is a promise.

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I don't see much similarity between the church scandal and this other than it is both a group of child molesters. the clerics did it in secrecy not out in the open like these guys and when people found out they raised a racket that has been going on for a decade now. this has the passive consent of the society

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@someone50

I truly, deeply hope you are not defending the 'taliban regime' by saying these kind of monstrocities received death penalty. Indeed, even today they are illegal and people are 'jailed', however, let out in a few months. Unfortunately.

The taliban regime committed acts worse, especially against the Shia of Ali(as). They declared shias to be 'non-muslims' and committed(may be committing to this day) acts that would make ANYONE want to poke their own eyes with forks. That is a promise.

Please stop being a smart @ss. The topic was about 'BACHA BAZI'. Then, someone mentioned the Kite Runner. It had nothing to do with Shias and how good the Taliban regime was.

Simply, it is true that Taliban banned all these activities I mentioned in the previous post. Does that make them any better than Communists or Mujahideen groups? I don't think so. I don't know how you reached to the conclusion that I justified Taliban's opposition to Shias and how Taliban were good?

Starting from brutal communists dictatorship regimes till to the present days we have had all different brutal and criminal regimes in Afghanistan.

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I don't see much similarity between the church scandal and this other than it is both a group of child molesters. the clerics did it in secrecy not out in the open like these guys and when people found out they raised a racket that has been going on for a decade now. this has the passive consent of the society

Double standard at its finest. They are both just as evil as each other, crime done in secrecy or out in the open is still crime. Its not just some members of the Taliban who have engaged in this abhorrent act but all the Warlords and Commanders of Northern Alliance.

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Please stop being a smart @ss. The topic was about 'BACHA BAZI'. Then, someone mentioned the Kite Runner. It had nothing to do with Shias and how good the Taliban regime was.

Simply, it is true that Taliban banned all these activities I mentioned in the previous post. Does that make them any better than Communists or Mujahideen groups? I don't think so. I don't know how you reached to the conclusion that I justified Taliban's opposition to Shias and how Taliban were good?

Starting from brutal communists dictatorship regimes till to the present days we have had all different brutal and criminal regimes in Afghanistan.

I said "I hope you are not defending the taliban regime" and turns out I was right. No need for any personal attacks, but I do apologise if I ever did offend you or anyone.

This being a SHIACHAT forum, I think it has everything to do with shias and everytime I read 'taliban', I do think of horrible acts committed by them against shiites.

It is true that Taliban banned these activities, but these activities have always been looked down upon and NEVER been 'legal'.

@ Lester:

No. One kills a cow

No. Two buys a cow a new bell, makes it go for a walk and then kills it

its the same thing, no? To be honest with you, I dont feel anything for the fact that these boys are forced to wear female clothing & dance.(if it were only that and these boys made money for their families, I wouldn't care or call it problem) Heck, some people actually PREFER to wear female clothing and dancing. My only concern is the sexual abuse which also happens within some churches.

Another thing: These afghan families are FORCED to selling their kids for money to provide for their other kids (possibly daughters), the Altar Boys are sent to these places KNOWING that there are people who practice 'celibacy' and knowing that the risk of sexual assault is higher than if these boys were sent to bandpractice.

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I said "I hope you are not defending the taliban regime" and turns out I was right. No need for any personal attacks, but I do apologise if I ever did offend you or anyone.

?

Ok. then let me guess!!!!! You sound like a Wahabi-Nasabi from Saudi Arabia. Also, a member of former communists KHAD org. :- )

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?

Ok. then let me guess!!!!! You sound like a Wahabi-Nasabi from Saudi Arabia. Also, a member of former communists KHAD org. :- )

Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame. :!!!:

lol @ communist KHAD

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al khorasani /sodabeh- I'm saying lets focus on afghanistan not other things. There is a tendency around here to start talking about the west when discussing problems in the midde east and it is just besides the point . No one is playing down the tragedy and hypocricy of the assault of young boys in the catholic churches but it's for a another discussion

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Did anyone see this and/ or know about "bacha bazi"?

Some of the most important people in Afghanistan society are in the habit of buying and training very young boys for the purpose of training them to dance and sexually service men. I could not believe what I was seeing

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/etc/synopsis.html

Why haven't we heard about this before? How do these men justify this?

I am not sure why you haven't heard about this before. It is kind of common knowledge down here. Bacha bazi, which can literally mean "playing boys", in popular perception in South Asia, is associated with tribes and people of Pashtun [Pathan] and Afghan origin. So much so that there are countless vulgar jokes associating Afghans with the act of sodomising young boys. The systematic exploitation of young boys is one of the most shameful episodes of Afghan culture. I lean towards the view that it spins from the lack of opportunities to satisfy one's legitimate sexual desires. It is socially easier to talk to, befriend, and stay with the same-sex. Women in that region are out of reach of the men till they get married. But the conditioning of the fulfillment of desires in this manner doesn't end on marriage.

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I am not sure why you haven't heard about this before. It is kind of common knowledge down here. Bacha bazi, which can literally mean "playing boys", in popular perception in South Asia, is associated with tribes and people of Pashtun [Pathan] and Afghan origin. So much so that there are countless vulgar jokes associating Afghans with the act of sodomising young boys. The systematic exploitation of young boys is one of the most shameful episodes of Afghan culture. I lean towards the view that it spins from the lack of opportunities to satisfy one's legitimate sexual desires. It is socially easier to talk to, befriend, and stay with the same-sex. Women in that region are out of reach of the men till they get married. But the conditioning of the fulfillment of desires in this manner doesn't end on marriage.

wow, why are such racist baseless claims allowed in here.

First of all Bacha bazi (playing with boys) is Farsi word (persian) and not pashto word. :!!!: I am from Afghanistan and I know my country really well so please don't try to fool me, it won't work.

This sin is not restricted to a particular tribe or location and takes place all over the country. May Allah (swt) remove this disease from our society. Amen.

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wow, why are such racist baseless claims allowed in here.

First of all Bacha bazi (playing with boys) is Farsi word (persian) and not pashto word. :!!!: I am from Afghanistan and I know my country really well so please don't try to fool me, it won't work.

This sin is not restricted to a particular tribe or location and takes place all over the country. May Allah (swt) remove this disease from our society. Amen.

My intention was to merely report what is commonly perceived. I am not endorsing any point of view. Moreover, I didn't restrict it to Pashtuns. See the red part below.

Bacha bazi, which can literally mean "playing boys", in popular perception in South Asia, is associated with tribes and people of Pashtun [Pathan] and Afghan origin.

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I am not sure why you haven't heard about this before. It is kind of common knowledge down here. Bacha bazi, which can literally mean "playing boys", in popular perception in South Asia, is associated with tribes and people of Pashtun [Pathan] and Afghan origin. So much so that there are countless vulgar jokes associating Afghans with the act of sodomising young boys. The systematic exploitation of young boys is one of the most shameful episodes of Afghan culture. I lean towards the view that it spins from the lack of opportunities to satisfy one's legitimate sexual desires. It is socially easier to talk to, befriend, and stay with the same-sex. Women in that region are out of reach of the men till they get married. But the conditioning of the fulfillment of desires in this manner doesn't end on marriage.

I may not agree with you on the Pakhtoon thing. Although Pakhtoon tribesmen do it openly, the problem of child sexual abuse is as prevalent elsewhere in Pakistan as is in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa.

Sahil [www.sahil.org] collects information regarding this problem and I once read a report on male child prostitution in Pirwadhai, Rawalpindi and the conditions seemed abysmal when it comes to this issue. Last night on Dawn News there was a program on this issue hosted by Wusatullah Khan. Through that program I came to know that there are more than .13 million homeless children living on streets of Pakistan and most of them are abused sexually in one way or the other. There are no good laws to address this problem. A bill was finalized in 2006, but hasn't been tabled yet because our politicians have priorities other than what they were elected for in the first place i.e. serving the people. In a nutshell, the situation is horrible and needs exigent measures.

Edited by sayedzeeshan

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I may not agree with you on the Pakhtoon thing. Although Pakhtoon tribesmen do it openly, the problem of child sexual abuse is as prevalent elsewhere in Pakistan as is in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa.

Sahil [www.sahil.org] collects information regarding this problem and I once read a report on male child prostitution in Pirwadhai, Rawalpindi and the conditions seemed abysmal when it comes to this issue. Last night on Dawn News there was a program on this issue hosted by Wusatullah Khan. Through that program I came to know that there are more than .13 million homeless children living on streets of Pakistan and most of them are abused sexually in one way or the other. There are no good laws to address this problem. A bill was finalized in 2006, but hasn't been tabled yet because our politicians have priorities other than what they were elected for in the first place i.e. serving the people. In a nutshell, the situation is horrible and needs exigent measures.

The problem is prevalent across the region. I remember a study done in India which claimed that over 21% of children (around 50% or so boys) were severely sexually abused. Having lived in Pakistan, I know the problem of homosexuality and pederasty is quite prevalent but our society (let alone the scumbag politicians) bury their heads in the ground and act as if we live in some pristine moral community. There was an article many years back which wrote how video store owners would show street boys their stash of porn, get them hooked on drugs, and then pimp them out to male clients.

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I may not agree with you on the Pakhtoon thing. Although Pakhtoon tribesmen do it openly, the problem of child sexual abuse is as prevalent elsewhere in Pakistan as is in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa.

Sahil [www.sahil.org] collects information regarding this problem and I once read a report on male child prostitution in Pirwadhai, Rawalpindi and the conditions seemed abysmal when it comes to this issue. Last night on Dawn News there was a program on this issue hosted by Wusatullah Khan. Through that program I came to know that there are more than .13 million homeless children living on streets of Pakistan and most of them are abused sexually in one way or the other. There are no good laws to address this problem. A bill was finalized in 2006, but hasn't been tabled yet because our politicians have priorities other than what they were elected for in the first place i.e. serving the people. In a nutshell, the situation is horrible and needs exigent measures.

I personally do not buy the line that bacha bazi is in some way a Pashtun or Afghan thing. As you said, it is everywhere. I think perhaps the reason for associating it with Pashtuns and Afghans is because they do it rather more openly than other people in the rest of South Asia. Also, it should be noted that the association of bacha bazi with Pashtuns is peculiarly a "Punjabi perception".

Edited by Marbles

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