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Race & Intelligence

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In today's world, subjective perceptions of scientists' intent seem to determine a study's acceptability — work is celebrated if perceived as elevating under-represented groups (as with focuses on women and minorities in the search for personalizedmedicine), but reviled if perceived as documenting sex and race differences in intelligence without a focus on interventions to eliminate them.
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Here is what these scientists have found:

smartpie.gif

As you see the african-america community is hung out as dumb. Their IQ being 15points below that of a white man. The ashkanazi jews also seem to have unbelievable results (superhigh) and apparently this is because of the key positions they held in the 1800s etc.

The reason I started this topic is merely because I had an interesting discussion about this today. I feel that the people I see around here today (no matter age) are not ready to receive information about genes and intelligence (not that i trust the information to be fact but let's act gullible here :!!!: )

Do you think race & IQ should be studied further? Is the human population of 2010 ready to receive news about this or will it lead to further discrimination etc? :unsure:

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how about the arabs .. ? they invented chemesty ,algebra ,numbers and many things ...

Exactly

(also hygiene)

What about Indians? Which race category do they fall into?

Here's the list of the smartest people:

■Physicist / Engineer Kim Ung-yong has a verified IQ of 210

■Bouncer Christopher Michael Langan has a verified IQ of 195

■Engineer Philip Emeagwali is alleged to have an IQ of 190

■World Chess Champion Garry Kasparov is alleged to have an IQ of 190

■Author Marilyn Vos Savant has a verified IQ of 186

■Actor James Woods is alleged to have an IQ of 180

■Politician John H. Sununu is alleged to have an IQ of 180

■Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is alleged to have an IQ of 180

■Mathematician Andrew Wiles is alleged to have an IQ of 170

■World Chess Champion Judith Polgar is alleged to have an IQ of 170

■Chess Grandmaster Robert Byrne is alleged to have an IQ of 170

■World Chess Champion Bobby Fischer is alleged to have an IQ of 167

■Mathematician / Physicist Stephen W. Hawking is alleged to have an IQ of over 160

■Microsoft Founder Paul Allen is alleged to have an IQ of over 160

■Actress Sharon Stone is alleged to have an IQ of 154

This list is hilarious. They put Netanyahu on there. Above stephen hawking and the lot. LMAO. I think they're missing Palin.

This whole race/intelligence thing to come out now is strategy imo. It's to re-open a closed wound (the black being inferior). Humans are simply not ready for this information now

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The entire notion that the intelligence of an individual, let alone groups of people, can be revealed by taking a standardized test is flawed.

+1

Those standardized measures are highly flawed in just about every area - they should be junked but instead the results are used to make life altering decisions for some hapless indivivuals.

b

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Race has nothing to do with intelligence. Socio-economic and environmental factors have more impact than anything else. Example, the African-Americans that live in the poor communities burdened with crime, drug abuse and poverty have less chance of getting proper education than the white upper class people who have wealthy families that can pay for their education.

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Race has nothing to do with intelligence. Socio-economic and environmental factors have more impact than anything else. Example, the African-Americans that live in the poor communities burdened with crime, drug abuse and poverty have less chance of getting proper education than the white upper class people who have wealthy families that can pay for their education.

Exactly.

But even the children of these white upper class people dont think like that. To certain people these things are a given but I was honestly shocked out of my mind when I saw how some people took these news. They are starting to believe they are superior in intelligence.

There are 'scientists' who have labelled the people of 'Kalahari'(in africa) as RETARDS who cannot do anything but empty bags of garbage.

Wallah, this feeling of superiority they have is despicable. If anyone is interested in biology and genes etc then I find it hard to believe that a weak product (the white 'race') can possibly be more intelligent than the 'original' human being. (talkin evolution)

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Exactly.

But even the children of these white upper class people dont think like that. To certain people these things are a given but I was honestly shocked out of my mind when I saw how some people took these news. They are starting to believe they are superior in intelligence.

There are 'scientists' who have labelled the people of 'Kalahari'(in africa) as RETARDS who cannot do anything but empty bags of garbage.

Wallah, this feeling of superiority they have is despicable. If anyone is interested in biology and genes etc then I find it hard to believe that a weak product (the white 'race') can possibly be more intelligent than the 'original' human being. (talkin evolution)

Its the same Eugenics pseudo-science garbage from Hitler. Apparently now Jews and Anglo-Saxons are the "superior race". This idea is not new, it was popular with the British aristocrats and championed by their pseudo-scientists such as Darwin, Francis Galton and Huxley.

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Race has nothing to do with intelligence. Socio-economic and environmental factors have more impact than anything else. Example, the African-Americans that live in the poor communities burdened with crime, drug abuse and poverty have less chance of getting proper education than the white upper class people who have wealthy families that can pay for their education.

This still seems to assume that 'intelligence' is something related to modern, materialistic considerations of what the human being is. What, exactly, IS intelligence, though - and how is it really developed in us throughout life? Is having access to modern, 'proper schooling' a factor in the development of 'intelligence'? If you think it is and think this actually helps us to develop our intelligence according to our fitra, I ask you to consider this question: What do we make of the fact that Nabi and many of our Imams had NO formal education in the modern, institutional sense, but whom we would rightly say displayed and had 'intelligence'?

Edited by Bro_Straight_Path

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Its the same Eugenics pseudo-science garbage from Hitler. Apparently now Jews and Anglo-Saxons are the "superior race". This idea is not new, it was popular with the British aristocrats and championed by their pseudo-scientists such as Darwin, Francis Galton and Huxley.

Yeh but it is so worrying.

The funny thing is, all jews share the same culture/traditions etc but they say: No, not all jews are smart. Only the ahkanazi jews are the smart ones.

And the grand surprise (nawt) is that the ahskanazi jews are the ruling families of United States. The Rothschilds & BIlderberg group? And also the leaders of ISRAEL...

tada ta daaaaaaaaa! Argh ignorance kills my life

I just find it worrying that they are reopening old wounds. We're not any smarter than the Americans of the 17th century or the germans of 1939(although hitlers amazing speech skills & use of emotions may be guilty here)...

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Yeh but it is so worrying.

The funny thing is, all jews share the same culture/traditions etc but they say: No, not all jews are smart. Only the ahkanazi jews are the smart ones.

And the grand surprise (nawt) is that the ahskanazi jews are the ruling families of United States. The Rothschilds & BIlderberg group? And also the leaders of ISRAEL...

tada ta daaaaaaaaa! Argh ignorance kills my life

I just find it worrying that they are reopening old wounds. We're not any smarter than the Americans of the 17th century or the germans of 1939(although hitlers amazing speech skills & use of emotions may be guilty here)...

Right on sister.

This still seems to assume that 'intelligence' is something related to modern, materialistic considerations of what the human being is. What, exactly, IS intelligence, though - and how is it really developed in us throughout life? Is having access to modern, 'proper schooling' a factor in the development of 'intelligence'? If you think it is and think this actually helps us to develop our intelligence according to our fitra, I ask you to consider this question: What do we make of the fact that Nabi and many of our Imams had NO formal education in the modern, institutional sense, but whom we would rightly say displayed and had 'intelligence'?

Thats a whole different argument about the philosophy behind Intelligence. Prophet Muhammad(sw) and our Imams(as) had divinely inspired knowledge which most of us aren't blessed with, however they were great supporters of science and academia, one of the famous hadeeth says that knowledge is compulsory even if you had get it from China. Imam Jafer as Sadiq (as) was known to be a great admirer of sciences, it was because of men like him that Islam reached its golden age, while the West was still living in the dark ages.

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Thats a whole different argument about the philosophy behind Intelligence. Prophet Muhammad(sw) and our Imams(as) had divinely inspired knowledge which most of us aren't blessed with, however they were great supporters of science and academia, one of the famous hadeeth says that knowledge is compulsory even if you had get it from China. Imam Jafer as Sadiq (as) was known to be a great admirer of sciences, it was because of men like him that Islam reached its golden age, while the West was still living in the dark ages.

It's not an argument about the philosophy of intelligence, but is addressing what intelligence actually is. To say that Nabi and the Imams had 'divinely inspired knowledge' is addressing the qualitative aspect of their knowledge that, just as you say, most aren't blessed with directly acquiring. Is having or acquiring that knowledge the same thing as having 'intelligence', though?

Acquiring knowledge of the sciences, for example, doesn't mean one has intelligence. Anyone can learn that the sciences are and apply the knowledge just as they've been taught to - but knowing what the sciences are - requires this thing called intelligence that we still haven't defined.

That is what Nabi and the Imams had without being formally trained or educated - an innate and highly refined ability to know what things are - not simply that things are. They didn't need formal schooling to develop or acquire this trait of intelligence. It just so happens that they didn't acquire their knowledge through formal, institutional education either. Coincidence? Maybe. I'm not sure. As for the foundation in order to know what things are - intelligence - they already had it.

Computer hard drives can be filled with all sorts of information - the computer, itself, can even be programmed to acquire knowledge and apply it just as programmed to - but that doesn't mean computers have any sort of innate 'intelligence'. So, again, what is it?

What we need to come to know is whether or not 'intelligence' is the same thing as having or acquiring knowledge - regardless if that knowledge is divinely inspired or not. Then, we need to come to know what is the best way for human beings to acquire knowledge and refine their innate trait of intelligence so that they will know what this knowledge is - not simply that it is.

To say that the so-called golden age of Islam was the best example of the historical application of what Nabi and the Imam's taught and tried to pass on to us is, in my opinion, a misreading of human history. The best example of the application of Nabi and the Imams' teachings that we have to perpetually refer to is - themselves as living realities and beings - which are beyond any historical time period.

Edited by Bro_Straight_Path

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Science does not find any correlation between race (a purely genetic feature) and intelligence. All human beings whatever they might look like have the same potential. On average intelligence is the same. What matters is the quality of food during pregnancy and childhood as well as the quality of parent-child interaction especially during the first years.

IQ tests often contain a lot of errors and any data has to be handled with extra care. Here's one example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_by_country#National_IQ_estimates

Keep in mind, many of these numbers could be quite wrong.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Education is key as a holistic, transparent, dialog-oriented process --Queen Rania Al Abdullah

Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people --Eleanor Roosevelt

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This reminds me of 'IQ and the Wealth of Nations'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

There are 'scientists' who have labelled the people of 'Kalahari'(in africa) as RETARDS who cannot do anything but empty bags of garbage.

There are different types of intelligence, people tend to develop the type that they need most. Just try throwing an upper crust with a high IQ into the Kalahari and see how long they survive.

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there could be truth in this study

but it should not be used to say a race is superior to another because intelligence doesn't make you a better person

It could make you a better tyrant and then that would turn you into the most stupid creature because you are given this amazing treasure of intelligence then you thought of everything except the most important thing i.e. your fate and destination and hence you ruined your hereafter..

there could be truth in this , we have to submit to truths no matter what but these implications should not be used as a superiority measure because the best of the people is not the smartest of them but the best is the most sincere and obedient to his lord

but I also observed that Jews were very smart in here and the dark people were generally not successful at schools and universities

note: when you say arabs discovered algebra and all that , i think its not really arabs but it was muslims using arabic language

Also IQ is not representative as many said

I have a relative who did not do well at school but I actually did good and ended up doing university with all the top nerds but when it comes to certain intelligences he would thrash me

I noticed that he can map out routes in his mind for tarvelling and I would use the same road 50 times and i still don't remember lol

now this same guy started working as a labourer in some factory but he also does IT and became a genius in IT. he started solving things in his company that the senior Engineers or technicians fail to solve with their own computer systems

Also dont forget that Sir Ishac Newton failed at school

Edited by alimohamad40

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of course Whites would have an advantage here as they are the Majority, but in terms of I.Q and intellegence East Asians ( Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc....) are definately on top. Indians/ SA mabey being second

gotta give credit to Middle Easterners and Asians.!!!!... Aljebra was invented by Al Kwarezmi, a Persian from Bukhara, Numbers by Indians, Avicenna,The father of modern medicine, was also a Persian!..... unfortunately this was hundreds of years ago , and people from those places nowadays havent made any contributions lately.... but mabey some day!!!!!

Edited by Reshad

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Two quick points that torpedo any claims of racists about "intelligence" and "race", 1) "intelligence" is not quantifiable to begin with and 2) "race" is a complete social construct with no scientific basis whatsoever.

Two good links refuting the claims of racists, like those white supremacist hacks who wrote the lying book called "The Bell Curve" in the early 1990s.

http://www.raceandhi...iews/ukwise.htm "Sloppy Statistics, Bogus Scienceand the Assault on Racial Equity" by Tim Wise

http://www.fair.org/...x.php?page=1271 "Racism Resurgent: How Media Let The Bell Curve's Pseudo-Science Define the Agenda on Race"

Edited by Basra

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Intelligence test are heavily bias towards language skills and reading comprehension. This is an area where Jews do exceptionally well because there yeshiva training focuses on these to areas. Asians are showing up at 106 percent, but they generally score average or below on the language and very high on the mathematical sections. African-American scores are disproportionate because of higher levels of poverty and historical cultural factors such as language. In many parts of the United States African-Americans speak a dialect of english that is not used in the test. It's not genetics - example, In 1954 because of Brown vs. The Board of Education Supreme Court Decision, Baltimore City College High School, ranked at the time as a top 3 high school in the USA, was open to integration. The top ranked student from that point on until the 1980's was either African-American or Asian-American. They even produced two African -American Rhodes Scholars and a long list of Ivy League graduates.

The State of Maryland response to this was to closed the school for 10 years and re-open it with new acceptance criteria.

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how about the arabs .. ? they invented chemesty ,algebra ,numbers and many things ...

This is very wrong and ignorant.

you are talking about things invented and pioneered by Persian Muslims.

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Every mentally healthy human can become intelligent. It's all about the readiness of the mind for learning and the will of succeeding. I doubt race has got anything to do with it.

Oh and also, money is factor since it provides education which is the core of learning.

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This is very wrong and ignorant.

you are talking about things invented and pioneered by Persian Muslims.

as far as I'm aware .. al-khawarizmi, the inventor of algorithm was an Arab living in the city of Babylon.

It doesn't matter as long as they are muslims.. we do not want to promote culture, but Islam .. the goodness of Islam

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There's been much research into "Brain Size" of races by measuring the brain cavity (cranial capacity) eg http://books.google....epage&q&f=false and summed up in a recent study http://www.news-medi...04/26/9530.aspx

It's conclusive that brain size average does change between races.

The question then is, does brain size change IQ? i.e. is there a direct correlation between brain size, and IQ? Answer is yes, but there is a catch, http://www.scientifi...ain-size-matter

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Khwārizmī is 100% Persian Muslim, he was a Sunni though.

and yes, it does not matter as long as they are Muslims.

but Arabs do not believe that attempt to brand Muslim inventions created by Persians as Arab inventions created by Arab wisdom...

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