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MohammadRezaFerdowsi

Imam Ali Picture

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I don't think that picture is authentic.

They say it was drawn by an Italian at the time; if you look at every picture in Italy at the time (or even around the world), you will see that none of the pictures look like this in terms of it's style, etc.

It simply doesn't fit the time-period.

was salam

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Allah has a face like it's creatures?

yes. and that face is the face of ali.

ali is the eyes of Allah

ali is the hand of Allah

ali is the tongue of Allah

ali is the sword of Allah

ali is the lion of Allah.

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yes. and that face is the face of ali.

ali is the eyes of Allah

ali is the hand of Allah

ali is the tongue of Allah

ali is the sword of Allah

ali is the lion of Allah.

I respect your belief and ideology..

But it seems contradicting to mine

I believe that my Lord (that is my Allah) does not need an eye to see, a hand to work, a tongue to communicate and a sword to fight like it's creatures since it created those things when they had never existed before so i cannot ever acknowledge it to have them when they had not existed before it created them and my Lord is greater than that and it is greater than any description

All praise is due to Allah

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I respect your belief and ideology..

But it seems contradicting to mine

I believe that my Lord (that is my Allah) does not need an eye to see, a hand to work, a tongue to communicate and a sword to fight like it's creatures since it created those things when they had never existed before so i cannot ever acknowledge it to have them when they had not existed before it created them and my Lord is greater than that and it is greater than any description

All praise is due to Allah

respected brother, these titles are not anything that i have bestowed upon maula ali, but what the prophet himself has titled our maula. as such, it is a key part of your faith as well as mine to accept that imam alis titles are these, amongst many others.

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respected brother, these titles are not anything that i have bestowed upon maula ali, but what the prophet himself has titled our maula. as such, it is a key part of your faith as well as mine to accept that imam alis titles are these, amongst many others.

Thank you for your respect, my brother

I accept our Imam Ali (as) to be my Master, my Leader, my Friend and the sign of my Lord on the Earth but I cannot associate him with the Creator since Allah has always been the Creator of everything and Ali has always been the creation of Allah so he depends on Allah in everything

Where has it been recorded that our Prophet (pbuh) had titled our Imam Ali (as) as: the face, the eye, the hand, the tongue and the sword of Allah? not that I doubt it much but just to increase my knowledge and to know of the incidents that occured and I hope they are considered as authentic sources by (our educated people)

may Allah bless you

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yes. and that face is the face of ali.

ali is the eyes of Allah

ali is the hand of Allah

ali is the tongue of Allah

ali is the sword of Allah

ali is the lion of Allah.

Wahabis also believe Allah(swt) has a face, hands, eyes etc. Thats pure Shirk. You are likening Allah(swt) to his creatures. Allah(swt) says in the Quran that nothing is like him. Also you have Ghulat believes in your devotion of Imam Ali(as) and he burned people like you. To say Ali(as) is Allah(swt) or part of Allah(sw) or to liken him to Allah(swt) is Shirk and this sin will never be forgiven, you are hellbound brother.

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Wahabis also believe Allah(swt) has a face, hands, eyes etc. Thats pure Shirk. You are likening Allah(swt) to his creatures. Allah(swt) says in the Quran that nothing is like him. Also you have Ghulat believes in your devotion of Imam Ali(as) and he burned people like you. To say Ali(as) is Allah(swt) or part of Allah(sw) or to liken him to Allah(swt) is Shirk and this sin will never be forgiven, you are hellbound brother.

(bismillah)

Wow these are not meant LITERALLY, it's like a figure of speech. Allaah doesn't need Imam Ali to see or to hear or to touch things. It's a title, like the brother said.

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Wahabis also believe Allah(swt) has a face, hands, eyes etc. Thats pure Shirk. You are likening Allah(swt) to his creatures. Allah(swt) says in the Quran that nothing is like him. Also you have Ghulat believes in your devotion of Imam Ali(as) and he burned people like you. To say Ali(as) is Allah(swt) or part of Allah(sw) or to liken him to Allah(swt) is Shirk and this sin will never be forgiven, you are hellbound brother.

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there a saying from Imam Ali that states there are two groups that will go to hell on my behalf, those who hate me and those who love me too much

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and who are you exactly calling nusary? just pure shame that there are other momineens out there who have a problem with the lovers of maula ali (a.s) and all i have to say is i pray to Allah (s.w.t) that you understand this love and stop classing maulas lovers as nusarys!

ali ali

Edited by sayeda-matami

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Wahabis also believe Allah(swt) has a face, hands, eyes etc. Thats pure Shirk. You are likening Allah(swt) to his creatures. Allah(swt) says in the Quran that nothing is like him. Also you have Ghulat believes in your devotion of Imam Ali(as) and he burned people like you. To say Ali(as) is Allah(swt) or part of Allah(sw) or to liken him to Allah(swt) is Shirk and this sin will never be forgiven, you are hellbound brother.

i suggest you educate yourself before lecturing me on what is shirk and what isnt

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i suggest you educate yourself before lecturing me on what is shirk and what isnt

You havent answered how Imam Ali(as) can be Allah's face,tongue,hand and eyes when giving Allah(swt) such attributes becomes shirk. How is making Allah(swt) into parts showing your love and devotion to Imam Ali(as). Cheap personal attacks wont make any statement you say correct.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there a saying from Imam Ali that states there are two groups that will go to hell on my behalf, those who hate me and those who love me too much

I read this saying from Imam Ali (as) a while back, maybe its the one you are reffering to.

Nahjul Balaga, saying 116

"Two kinds of people will be damned on my account. Those who form exaggerated opinions about me, and those who under-estimate me because they hate me"

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Let's understand each other

Here's what I think of both the sides of our brothers:

The side of our brother, Maula dha mallang, said that: Ali is the face, eyes, hand, tongue, sword and lion of Allah

This side may have meant that the parts of Ali belong to Allah from how obedient they are to Allah?

We can say it in this way as in how we say that the Qur'an is the book of Allah - as in when we say that it is the book of Allah, we do not mean that Allah reads from it to learn but that it is the book of Allah from how much it is related and obedient to Allah

The same thing could be with the Kaaba (The Cube in Mecca) being the house of Allah meaning it is where people go to get close to Allah or where people are the closest to Allah from how holy and spiritual it is and not that it is the place of living for Allah or that Allah resides in that location

So this side may have meant that the face of Ali is the face of Allah cause it is very related and obedient to Allah so it belongs completely to Allah (and not meaning that it is the face that Allah has) and the same could be for the others

But the side of our brother, Al Khorasani, said that: the side of Maula dha mallang are associating Ali (the creation) with Allah (the Creator)

This side may have meant that Ali, which is the creation, should not be associated with Allah, which is the Creator, since Islam teaches that there is nothing like Allah and it thought that the other side has done that by saying that the parts of Ali belong to Allah

True - Allah is the Creator of Everything and there is nothing like the Creator and associating Allah with the creation would be considered as Shirk (association with Allah)

But this side (may) have misunderstood the other side in how I have explained it could have been

And I hope this clears much of the argument!

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"Where is the countenance of Allah through which the friends attend towards him?"

Every member of Holy Ahle Bait (a.s.) is a mirror of divine qualities (Face of Allah). It means the countenance of Allah. Obviously Allah does not possess a 'face' but it only means that whoever wants to turn towards Allah and wishes to have an intermediary to Allah can do so only through the Proof of Allah [imam Mahdi (a.s.)]. Since the Imam is in occultation to have belief in him and to attend to him becomes all the more meritorious.

The following tradition of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) also supports this argument:

"O Ali! In the last period there will be a people, most amazing in belief and the greatest in faith. They shall be those who will not have seen the Prophet of Allah and the Proof of Allah (Imam Mahdi (a.s.) will be hidden from them. The foundation of their belief shall be upon only certain writings."

In Kitab al-Tawhid, Shaykh Saduq (AR) says:

Ali is the eye of God, the hearing of God, and the divine proximit

Do you not believe Imam Mahdi (as) to be Baqiyatullah

"What remains with Allah is better for you if you are believers."

(Surah Hud, Verse 86)

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My Imam was good looking and slim because of his peasants diet. His strenghth came from spiritual power.

Yup, I second that as Imam Ali's (as) diet consisted of a few pieces of dry bread..

The picture by the original poster show a man who is overweight and looks a bit slow.

:yaali:

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why would an arab man at the time of the prophet have a beard thats short and shaped in the modern style? particularly iranian style? all the accounts of maula ali (as) beard state that it reached his chest

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ImamAli.jpg

3-261 Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Ishaq al-Taleqani - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Al-Hassan ibn Ali al-Ado’we quoted Ebad ibn Saheeb (ibn Ebad ibn Saheeb), on the authority of his father, on the authority of his forefather, on the authority of Ja’far ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq (MGB), “A man asked the Commander of the Faithful Imam Ali (MGB) about his medium height, big belly and lack of hair on his forehead. The Commander of the Faithful (MGB) replied, ‘The Blessed the Sublime God has created me neither tall nor short, but of medium height so that I can cut a short enemy into two pieces from head to toe, and cut a tall enemy into two pieces from his waist. My belly is big since the Prophet (MGB) opened up to me a gate of knowledge from which a thousand doors to knowledge shall open up. Therefore, knowledge gathered up in my belly. And the reason why there is no hair on my forehead is that I have always worn a head armor and gone to fight with the enemy.”

al-khisal, 'three characteristics of Imam Ali', p.312

http://www.maaref-fo...khisal/07_3.htm

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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The Wahabi and the Nusayris?

dont forget the asoolis and the akhbaris and malangs too :shifty:

that pic, the guy who made it could not really see properly so he made it up. the maker of the pic may have been intoxicated.plus the pic does not come from a authentic source.

a load of liesss, anyone could tell you that, infact im sure i seen this picture before on a whaabi site who were sending out hatered for shias.

Edited by alialiali

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Wahabis also believe Allah(swt) has a face, hands, eyes etc. Thats pure Shirk. You are likening Allah(swt) to his creatures. Allah(swt) says in the Quran that nothing is like him. Also you have Ghulat believes in your devotion of Imam Ali(as) and he burned people like you. To say Ali(as) is Allah(swt) or part of Allah(sw) or to liken him to Allah(swt) is Shirk and this sin will never be forgiven, you are hellbound brother.

agreed brother.

and to be honest, why are we even drawing pictures of Imam Ali (as)?

I actually did hear a description of the Imam being a bit hefty, who's to say he didn't look like that (altho i don't see how he could be fat). Just because he is a great man, he doesn't have to look like a model, it's his strength of charcter which is important.

ImamAli.jpg

3-261 Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Ishaq al-Taleqani - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Al-Hassan ibn Ali al-Ado’we quoted Ebad ibn Saheeb (ibn Ebad ibn Saheeb), on the authority of his father, on the authority of his forefather, on the authority of Ja’far ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq (MGB), “A man asked the Commander of the Faithful Imam Ali (MGB) about his medium height, big belly and lack of hair on his forehead. The Commander of the Faithful (MGB) replied, ‘The Blessed the Sublime God has created me neither tall nor short, but of medium height so that I can cut a short enemy into two pieces from head to toe, and cut a tall enemy into two pieces from his waist. My belly is big since the Prophet (MGB) opened up to me a gate of knowledge from which a thousand doors to knowledge shall open up. Therefore, knowledge gathered up in my belly. And the reason why there is no hair on my forehead is that I have always worn a head armor and gone to fight with the enemy.”

al-khisal, 'three characteristics of Imam Ali', p.312

http://www.maaref-fo...khisal/07_3.htm

does anybody know how strong this is?

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