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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is Falling In Love Allowed In Islam?

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khuram

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In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Islam teaches us to be truthful and realistic. Usually, we love for the sake of Allah and we hate for the sake of Allah. Islam teaches us that a male and female can build up a good relationship founded on marriage.

We do not say love is halal or haram because it is a feeling. Maybe it is not under control. You can judge what is under control. But people who fall in love are in many episodes away from the cleansed and pure atmosphere.

Marriages that are usually good and lasting marriages are those that start at the least affection. That affection grows after marriage and maybe it will grow until the couples continue their companionship at the Jannah.

If you have any affection towards a person, you should ask yourself: why do you like that person? If you have good Islamic, reasonable justification, then you need not tell that person of what you feel. However, you can make a serious plan to make him ask for your hand. If you want to know the meaning of fitna, a great part of it is what people nowadays call love or romance.

If we are speaking about the emotion which we call "love" then we are simply speaking of a feeling. What we feel toward a particular person is not of great importance, until our feeling is expressed in a particular action. Now if that action is permissible, then well and good. If it is forbidden, then we have incurred something that Allah does not approve of. If it is love between a man and a woman, the emotion itself is not the subject of questioning on the Day of Judgment. If you feel you love someone, then you cannot control your feeling. If that love prompts you to try to see that person in secret and to give expression to your feelings in actions permissible only within the bond of marriage then what you are doing is forbidden.

In Islam, it is not a sin if you feel a special affinity or inclination towards a certain individual since human beings have no control on such natural inclinations. We are, however, definitely responsible and accountable if we get carried away by such feelings and take specific actions or steps that might be deemed as haram (forbidden).

As far as male and female interaction is concerned, Islam dictates strict rules: It forbids all forms of ‘dating’ and isolating oneself with a member of the opposite sex, as well indiscriminate mingling and mixing.

If, however, one does none of the above, and all that he or she wants is to seriously consider marrying someone, such a thing itself is not considered haram. In fact, Islam encourages us to marry persons for whom we have special feelings and affinity. Thus, Islam recommends that potential marriage partners see one another before proposing marriage. Explaining the reason for such a recommendation, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “That would enhance/foster the bonding.”

This permission notwithstanding, we are advised against getting carried away by merely the outward appearances of a person; these may be quite misleading. Marriage is a life-long partnership and a person’s real worth is determined not by his or her physical looks, but more so by the inner person or character. Hence, after having mentioned that people ordinarily look for beauty, wealth and family in a marriage partner, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) advised us to consider primarily “the religious or character factor” over and above all other considerations.

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In Islam, it is not a sin if you feel a special affinity or inclination towards a certain individual since human beings have no control on such natural inclinations. We are, however, definitely responsible and accountable if we get carried away by such feelings and take specific actions or steps that might be deemed as haram (forbidden).

You can say that again!

Mashallah God has blessed me with colleagues that work who elicit no affinity whatsoever. I am perfectly serious about this point. My previous job involved working with numbers of bright and attractive young ladies and while professionalism and Islam always won out over attraction - who knows whether I could have held out over years and years of the same experience? So I am grateful for where I am now.

Anyway I am currently abroad (alone) on an assignment with colleagues from another organisation - one of whom is exceptionally personable and charming. I guess an Islamic rulebook simply means that you don't initiate what in the West would be seen as a totally innocent situation (e.g. having a coffee/dinner) - but which has the potential to spiral and is thus banned by Islam.

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You can say that again!

Mashallah God has blessed me with colleagues that work who elicit no affinity whatsoever. I am perfectly serious about this point. My previous job involved working with numbers of bright and attractive young ladies and while professionalism and Islam always won out over attraction - who knows whether I could have held out over years and years of the same experience? So I am grateful for where I am now.

Anyway I am currently abroad (alone) on an assignment with colleagues from another organisation - one of whom is exceptionally personable and charming. I guess an Islamic rulebook simply means that you don't initiate what in the West would be seen as a totally innocent situation (e.g. having a coffee/dinner) - but which has the potential to spiral and is thus banned by Islam.

Im going to take a wild guess and say that your wife has no idea that her hubby is Haji 2003@shiachat.com.

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You can say that again!

Mashallah God has blessed me with colleagues that work who elicit no affinity whatsoever. I am perfectly serious about this point. My previous job involved working with numbers of bright and attractive young ladies and while professionalism and Islam always won out over attraction - who knows whether I could have held out over years and years of the same experience? So I am grateful for where I am now.

That certainly is a dubious blessing!

In any case, please do keep in mind that even if you hadn't 'held out over years and years'... there is no guarantee that the bright and attractive young ladies you worked with would have been into having a relationship with you... it's not personal to you of course, but they might have had their attention elsewhere. Just because they smile in the corridor doesn't automatically mean they want anything outside of a work relationship with a colleague.

Thinking 'I'd like to approach that girl', dropping subtle hints that you'd like to have a relationship, or actually approaching a girl is much different than actually having some sort of tangible relationship (a two-way thing versus just something in one's mind). I have noticed that some of the guys on here don't always distinguish between the two!

I guess an Islamic rulebook simply means that you don't initiate what in the West would be seen as a totally innocent situation (e.g. having a coffee/dinner) - but which has the potential to spiral and is thus banned by Islam.

Yes

... and I do have to say, it is really refreshing to see some good, old-school Islamic values here. (Such as the idea that non mahrams don't socialize unnecessarily under normal circumstances)

Sorry I sound like a grandma I know!

Edited by BintAlHoda
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In any case, please do keep in mind that even if you hadn't 'held out over years and years'... there is no guarantee that the bright and attractive young ladies you worked with would have been into having a relationship with you... it's not personal to you of course, but they might have had their attention elsewhere. Just because they smile in the corridor doesn't automatically mean they want anything outside of a work relationship with a colleague.

ha ha ha!

You missed the following in the OP's message:

In Islam, it is not a sin if you feel a special affinity or inclination towards a certain individual since human beings have no control on such natural inclinations. We are, however, definitely responsible and accountable if we get carried away by such feelings and take specific actions or steps that might be deemed as haram (forbidden).

So it needn't even go so far as presuming reciprocation by the other party, even initiating an interest can be a problem - which is what I was referring to.

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let me add an info, this scholar is sunni muslim

 If you have any affection towards a person, you should ask yourself: why do you like that person? If you have good Islamic, reasonable justification, then you need not tell that person of what you feel. However, you can make a serious plan to make him ask for your hand. If you want to know the meaning of fitna, a great part of it is what people nowadays call love or romance.

 the important part " then you need not tell that person of what you feel. However, you can make a serious plan to make him ask for your hand "

planning help :- serious  :angel:

sample  :

muslima : salam

moslim : ws

muslima : are you married ?

moslim : unfortunately not

muslima : cant we remove our UN ?

moslim : :wub: really par Ami say poch kar bataonga

muslima: i didnt know that u r mama's boy , i better find someone else  :mad:  

moslim : aray sono to . . .

thoray dino baad

moslim : salam

muslima : ws , kia hay

moslim : wo maynay Ammi say poch leya

muslima : uff , to kia kaha MOHTARMA nay ?  :angel:

moslim : she said k "usko kaam wam bhi aata hay ghar ka ya wo bhi khud he karogay ? "

muslima : ohh unsay kaho k apna bayta apnay pass rakhain , balkay simbhal kar rakhain

moslim :  :cry:

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Im going to take a wild guess and say that your wife has no idea that her hubby is Haji 2003@shiachat.com.

Well the wife arrived here today!

The reason for bringing this up in this thread, is because sometimes it seems as if yours truly seems to be defending, shall we say, the more fundamentalist interpretation of various rules and regulations and there may be a perception on the part of others that it's easy for some to make those judgements.

In some ways the structure of my lifestyle does make it easier, e.g. I don't have to entertain business clients the way some of my highflying cousins do. But the point is that life occasionally throws a curveball, when you least expect it and you have to deal with it.

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Salam to all

before discussing any thing it is better to define it ....and try to understand what it realy means ...only then we can think of making any discussion

there r stages in this feeling ...first sight (better to say first impression) comes from our ideals which we have made in our minds ....for some people it may b only a beautiful figure for some others in addition to this some moral traits may also b important, while for others it may b only moral traits and no other thing other than this.

no matter how good impression the first encounter have on our mind ....the first thing that starts is not much severe and can b avoided and it is under the control of both the people BUT there comes a stage when both or either of the two have their emotions out of control it is when when they cant live with out each other ....it is the most dangerous stage before merrage and the most favourable stage after marriage....

IT is this stage because of which love is forbidden before marriage ....

there are manny ahadese ....on this

almost all Maragieeen give fatwa on the forbidness of it...before marriage

May Allah Bless U All

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its a complicated topic man. most people equate "love" with a crush. theyre not the same thing.

is it haram to have a crush? doubt it. is it haram to act in a haram way because of your crush? obviously.

is it haram to find someone who you think has all the qualities you are looking for in a wife, and who you feel ready to marry? no.

you just gotta man up and speak to her/ her parents lol.

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Falling love is compatible with Islam, otherwise what would you expect, to marry someone you don't love?? Makes no sense.. you guys try to make Islam sound like its a confined and controlled religion, with is defined with strict limits. But the reality is, Islam is just like any other religion, has a lot of options open, it's a very open religion, it's not as strict as you make it appear to be.

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Well I wish that were true lol, in some cases it works out well, in others, unfortunately it does not. It depends on the person and the situation, you should follow your heart, and get to know the person, before getting involved in marriage.

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There is nothing wrong in falling in love but it should not blind you in making the right choices which will be beneficial for you in the long run. If you fall in love then you have to maintain that love or else everything will go down the drain.

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Tha'ts where commitment plays a role lol, so that love or falling in love isn't just a thought or a brief moment, but can remain eternal and strong. We had some class, and in one chapter they talked about different kinds of love, and the people who are not married but live with each other, tend to have less sex after a set amount of years, the ones that remained married, and are not as much intimate in the beginning compared to the unmarried folks, end up having a sex life that lasts through the rest of their lives. This is why commitment plays a big role, in marriage. It's the bridge that keeps it together, physical attractiveness is just one factor.

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Sis Smiley said something about this a while back which I completely agree with: true love is not something you "fall" into. It is a conscious decision.

The "love" that one "falls" into is just illusory. Its hollywood myth. That's why people get over it so quickly.

True love is a decision to commit yourself to hard work and sacrifice for a person. That's the type of affection that lasts.

Edited by baradar_jackson
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Sis Smiley said something about this a while back which I completely agree with: true love is not something you "fall" into. It is a conscious decision.

I've been thinking about this today, since I've been discussing the work of Robert Axelrod with some people (he is best known for his interdisciplinary work on the evolution of cooperation) - totally different field, but some interesting insights.

Axelrod says that prolonged interaction allows patterns of co-operation to develop, which are based on reciprocity. In addition if interactions become more frequent, this can lead to more stable co-operation because the next move becomes more important than otherwise it would have.

The implications for falling in love IMHO are as follows:

1. particularly where you have e.g. students working with members of the opposite sex, in such areas as assignments, term papers etc. where people are definitely going to be in the same place e.g. for an academic year you are setting up the conditions for co-operative behaviour. To this extent I think it may be debateable as to whether or not we are talking about a conscious decision. So I think smiley could be challenged here.

2. Obviously co-operative behaviour is a million miles from love, but IMHO the greater the contact, the greater the period over which it takes place, the greater the potential.

If anyone thinks I am going absolutely nuts. Axelrod himself refers not only to enemies in his example, but also lovers.

In the area where I work where there is the potential for deep long-term, collaboration with other people - the implication would be to avoid such activity with people with whom there could be potential for something happening.

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The implications for falling in love IMHO are as follows:

1. particularly where you have e.g. students working with members of the opposite sex, in such areas as assignments, term papers etc. where people are definitely going to be in the same place e.g. for an academic year you are setting up the conditions for co-operative behaviour. To this extent I think it may be debateable as to whether or not we are talking about a conscious decision. So I think smiley could be challenged here.

Definitely - especially in study cohorts as it can become quite intense.

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Haji I disagree. Take for example, Emam Khomeini, who had a professional relationship with many females. Some of his closest advisers were women, so it inevitably follows that he spent a good deal of time with them. He was a human being just like us. He simply had better self-coercion faculties.

Through coercion, anything is possible. Especially if it is self-coercion. The act of not coercing oneself is in itself a decision. So any "love" that springs about (in a seemingly spontaneous and uncontrolled manner) as a result of ones lack of self-coercion should be considered a conscious decision.

Edited by baradar_jackson
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Haji I disagree. Take for example, Emam Khomeini, who had a professional relationship with many females.

I am trying to think this issue through from the perspective of an ordinary person and you bring in Emam Khomeini. The point is this. He had trained himself over many years in terms of personal self-discipline, through lots of other daily activities. When it came to this issue, clearly he had the self-discipline to deal with it.

For most of us the self-discipline may be too poorly developed to put ourselves to the 'test' and pass. So my argument is why try? If you do and you fail it may be too late already.

There's just one other thing that is niggling at my mind in all of this.

My Ph.D. supervisor (female) and I had a totally professional relationship. It was a British degree so little/no formal teaching but total focus on the thesis, which means extended, long-term discussion etc. with the supervisor. The co-creation of academic papers and a thesis, I felt was, shall we say an 'intellectually close' process. I used to wonder about this and put it to the back of my mind. Then I read a biography of Sonya Tolstoy - she used to edit his books and she also felt that the process was an intimate one in a non-physical way. Probably not haram etc. in the overall scheme of things, but certainly there are constructs out there relating to human interaction which we haven't discussed.

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bismillah-e-wtaala

salam

the kind of feeling forbidden in Islam...is the one in which your emotions go out of control for some one .some thing that forces you to accept some one without putting him/her to a judgement of mind - means putting him/her in the court of wisdom to make a wise descision- You predecide it without letting ur wisdom to interfere. this causes you to make wrong descision - you may even like any decoit , a theif or even any bad person ....and is not able to reject ...because of the strong attactchment

Islam does allow you to talk or see some one in order to reach to a reasonable descision- but such talk should be pin pointed and in safty distance as allowed by the ulemas (that is under certain restrictions)....and if you feel that your life can b good and you personality is compatible with that person then you can decide about life relation_even in it there are chances of unethical or illegal temptation...most Ulema recomend that after you feel some one is upto a merit then you should go for nika to make the other person as mehram so that you can easily talk to that person without any risk and if both feel that they have personality compatibilty with each other they can go for further.

but to allow your emotions to be fully attatched with some one u need to have any legal relation before that ...

May Allah Bless U All

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You can say that again!

Mashallah God has blessed me with colleagues that work who elicit no affinity whatsoever. I am perfectly serious about this point. My previous job involved working with numbers of bright and attractive young ladies and while professionalism and Islam always won out over attraction - who knows whether I could have held out over years and years of the same experience? So I am grateful for where I am now.

Anyway I am currently abroad (alone) on an assignment with colleagues from another organisation - one of whom is exceptionally personable and charming. I guess an Islamic rulebook simply means that you don't initiate what in the West would be seen as a totally innocent situation (e.g. having a coffee/dinner) - but which has the potential to spiral and is thus banned by Islam.

If the 'exceptionally personable and charming' colleague is a natural person of the opposite sex and is not attached or married or in iddah, and is willing to reciprocate your interest, you are well within your rights under Islam to consider her for either a temporary fling or more. It is not, as you say, '... ... ... banned by Islam'.

It might have the potential to spiral. Whether that is compatible with your interests or not is a call you make based on your assessment of what suits you. But Islam certainly does NOT ban it. Technically and in theory, you could consider a mutah or even a nikah, in Islam, with that 'exceptionally personable and charming' entity, thereby not forbidding unto yourself and being deprived of legitimate options that are permitted.

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If the 'exceptionally personable and charming' colleague is a natural person of the opposite sex and is not attached or married or in iddah, and is willing to reciprocate your interest

:!!!:

My observation that they were personable and charming, was with the view that this was a pretty good reason not to become involved in any social interaction! It's nothing peculiar, for example, I never PM any Sis on SC unless it can be absolutely avoided.

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w00t.gif

My observation that they were personable and charming, was with the view that this was a pretty good reason not to become involved in any social interaction! It's nothing peculiar, for example, I never PM any Sis on SC unless it can be absolutely avoided.

LOL. For a 'brother' to get involved with 'any Sis' on SC would (perhaps) be tantamount to incest . Nah, neither would I (henceforth). I'd be on the lookout for the 'personable and charming' types in the real world, however. Wouldn't pass on those. Neither should you, I think.

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LOL. For a 'brother' to get involved with 'any Sis' on SC would (perhaps) be tantamount to incest . Nah, neither would I (henceforth). I'd be on the lookout for the 'personable and charming' types in the real world, however. Wouldn't pass on those. Neither should you, I think.

I don't know what will wind-up my wife more. Your post or the weather forecast for the next 5 days, here in Singapore, which is heavy rain.

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I don't know what will wind-up my wife more. Your post or the weather forecast for the next 5 days, here in Singapore, which is heavy rain.

A loyal husband is one who will cherish his wife and return to her, no matter who or what he is confronted with when away.

A wise woman (wife) will always understand this. Insecurity based on jealousy (for a woman) is not an Islamic trait anyway. Is a Western construct. The most vocally faithful (in the Western meaning of the word) husband could be a wild rabbit in her absence and she wouldn't have a clue.

So why not just trust him and sleep easy. Come rain, hail or shine.

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A loyal husband is one who will cherish his wife and return to her, no matter who or what he is confronted with when away.

A wise woman (wife) will always understand this. Insecurity based on jealousy (for a woman) is not an Islamic trait anyway. Is a Western construct. The most vocally faithful (in the Western meaning of the word) husband could be a wild rabbit in her absence and she wouldn't have a clue.

So why not just trust him and sleep easy. Come rain, hail or shine.

Jealousy is not a Western construct. It's a natural instinct.

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Jealousy is not a Western construct. It's a natural instinct.

I stand corrected. It is a natural instinct, desirable in a man but abhorred in a woman, in an Islamic context. However the West has repackaged this natural instinct and sold it successfully as a construct for both genders to demand monogamous loyalty. While on paper it might sound fair to some, a reasonable Western feminist even, will admit that this is plain daydreaming. While Islam recognises and organises laws and morals according to the instinctive nature of beings, the West constructs ideas and concepts in gross distortion of the same. Which is why while polygamy is permitted (not obligatory) in Islam and gay marriages are not, the opposite is true in the West. You could be prosecuted for bigamy while being celebrated for being gay.

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I stand corrected. It is a natural instinct, desirable in a man but abhorred in a woman, in an Islamic context. However the West has repackaged this natural instinct and sold it successfully as a construct for both genders to demand monogamous loyalty. While on paper it might sound fair to some, a reasonable Western feminist even, will admit that this is plain daydreaming. While Islam recognises and organises laws and morals according to the instinctive nature of beings, the West constructs ideas and concepts in gross distortion of the same. Which is why while polygamy is permitted (not obligatory) in Islam and gay marriages are not, the opposite is true in the West. You could be prosecuted for bigamy while being celebrated for being gay.

The problem here is that you assume polygamy to be a permanent feature that can be practiced at any time. Although I am illiterate, from what I understand I don't think this is the case. I think certain demographic circumstances (such as the depletion of the male population due to war) serve as provisions for polygamy's permissibility. But outside of those circumstances, it is discouraged. My reason for believing this is simple: the common thread in all Islamic tenets is that society's needs take priority over individual's needs. Every action must be looked at in terms of "what would happen if everyone did this?" If many men married multiple women, what necessarily follows is that some men would be deprived of getting married. Depriving others of marriage cannot possibly be allowed in Islam, considering how highly Islam regards the institution of marriage (and considering that marriage is wajib under certain circumstances). Moreover, we can see that the prophet (pbuh) did not marry any other women until after Khadija (as) died. Imam Ali (as) did not marry any other women until after Fatima (as).

All of the above considerations lead me to believe that monogamy is the ideal in Islam, and polygamy is allowed only under certain provisions (and only allowed for men who are worthy of taking on such a responsibility). So I don't think that the jealousy of a woman is quite as abhorred as you suggest.

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The problem here is that you assume polygamy to be a permanent feature that can be practiced at any time. Although I am illiterate, from what I understand I don't think this is the case. I think certain demographic circumstances (such as the depletion of the male population due to war) serve as provisions for polygamy's permissibility. But outside of those circumstances, it is discouraged. My reason for believing this is simple: the common thread in all Islamic tenets is that society's needs take priority over individual's needs. Every action must be looked at in terms of "what would happen if everyone did this?" If many men married multiple women, what necessarily follows is that some men would be deprived of getting married. Depriving others of marriage cannot possibly be allowed in Islam, considering how highly Islam regards the institution of marriage (and considering that marriage is wajib under certain circumstances). Moreover, we can see that the prophet pbuh.gif did not marry any other women until after Khadija as.gif died. Imam Ali as.gif did not marry any other women until after Fatima as.gif.

All of the above considerations lead me to believe that monogamy is the ideal in Islam, and polygamy is allowed only under certain provisions (and only allowed for men who are worthy of taking on such a responsibility). So I don't think that the jealousy of a woman is quite as abhorred as you suggest.

I agree that polygamy is not meant to be the norm. Polygamy in Islam comes with a lot or responsibility towards the wives and accountability before the Almighty. The Quran clearly states that it is not for every Muslim man, if he fears that he cannot do justice to his wives and treat them equally. However I disagree with the idea that it is not a 'permanent feature'. It is as legit and valid today as it was in 7th century AD and will be so until the Day of Judgement, as we believe that no other prophet is meant to arrive after Muhammad, peace be upon him and his progeny.

While your example about societal needs is worthy of due consideration, I doubt if all practioners of polygamy poach on the pool of single unmarried young women. A realistic perusal of the marriage market will impress upon you that there are several widows and divorcees even today -infact more than during the time of the Prophet- who would gladly accept a husband, even if shared. The war widows in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Lebanon, even Iran (from the eight year Iran Iraq war) would be greatly served if polygamy was properly and socially accepted and practiced as a fair and reasonable institution. Which it is. Far better than leaving women to fend on their own or resort to prostitution.

Jealousy in a woman remains always condemned in Islam. There are verses in the Quran and authentic ahadith to establish that.

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I agree that polygamy is not meant to be the norm. Polygamy in Islam comes with a lot or responsibility towards the wives and accountability before the Almighty. The Quran clearly states that it is not for every Muslim man, if he fears that he cannot do justice to his wives and treat them equally. However I disagree with the idea that it is not a 'permanent feature'. It is as legit and valid today as it was in 7th century AD and will be so until the Day of Judgement, as we believe that no other prophet is meant to arrive after Muhammad, peace be upon him and his progeny.

While your example about societal needs is worthy of due consideration, I doubt if all practioners of polygamy poach on the pool of single unmarried young women. A realistic perusal of the marriage market will impress upon you that there are several widows and divorcees even today -infact more than during the time of the Prophet- who would gladly accept a husband, even if shared. The war widows in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Lebanon, even Iran (from the eight year Iran Iraq war) would be greatly served if polygamy was properly and socially accepted and practiced as a fair and reasonable institution. Which it is. Far better than leaving women to fend on their own or resort to prostitution.

Jealousy in a woman remains always condemned in Islam. There are verses in the Quran and authentic ahadith to establish that.

When I said I don't find it to be a "permanent feature," I mean that it is not acceptable under every social circumstance, not that it is outdated or that it should be abolished.

And I strongly disagree about Iran. Our government provides for the family of shohada. And most of those women are far too devoted to their martyred husbands to remarry.

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When I said I don't find it to be a "permanent feature," I mean that it is not acceptable under every social circumstance, not that it is outdated or that it should be abolished.

And I strongly disagree about Iran. Our government provides for the family of shohada. And most of those women are far too devoted to their martyred husbands to remarry.

We are in agreement about polygamy then. War widows? I am sure they are well looked after by the Islamic Republic, inshallah. I have absolutely no reason to suspect otherwise. Whether they choose to remain unremarried or not is a personal prerogative of theirs, the virtues of polygamy notwithstanding.

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I stand corrected. It is a natural instinct, desirable in a man but abhorred in a woman, in an Islamic context. However the West has repackaged this natural instinct and sold it successfully as a construct for both genders to demand monogamous loyalty. While on paper it might sound fair to some, a reasonable Western feminist even, will admit that this is plain daydreaming. While Islam recognises and organises laws and morals according to the instinctive nature of beings, the West constructs ideas and concepts in gross distortion of the same. Which is why while polygamy is permitted (not obligatory) in Islam and gay marriages are not, the opposite is true in the West. You could be prosecuted for bigamy while being celebrated for being gay.

That is because there is less choice (or none depending on whether or not you believe it to be an immutable characteristic) in sexual orientation than there is in the conscious decision a married man makes to not honor his commitment and love. If a gay guy cheated on his life partner you would be hard pressed to find a Westerner who advocated his decency or celebrated him.

LOL. For a 'brother' to get involved with 'any Sis' on SC would (perhaps) be tantamount to incest . Nah, neither would I (henceforth). I'd be on the lookout for the 'personable and charming' types in the real world, however. Wouldn't pass on those. Neither should you, I think.

Home wrecker :dry: Take your Islamic Carrie Bradshaw views somewhere else Mr "lets ignore the realities of human behavior and not pass up any opportunity to engage in a sexual relationship since it is technically halal."

Plus, you never know.. maybe Haji and his wife have it somewhere in their contract that he is not allowed to contract temporary marriages, etc. I mean obviously most men make this promise in the loved up phase of a relationship, but maybe she was smart enough (as your wife should be) to stipulate it and get it in writing?

If men want to reduce marriage to crude technicalities.. women can play that game

A loyal husband is one who will cherish his wife and return to her, no matter who or what he is confronted with when away.

A wise woman (wife) will always understand this. Insecurity based on jealousy (for a woman) is not an Islamic trait anyway. Is a Western construct. The most vocally faithful (in the Western meaning of the word) husband could be a wild rabbit in her absence and she wouldn't have a clue.

So why not just trust him and sleep easy. Come rain, hail or shine.

Fascinating definition of loyal. Did you get it from the dictionary of oblivious men who can keep telling themselves that until they get caught and end up grovelling, lonely and bitter?

Not going to get into another one of these debates. All i can say is thank God the majority of us live in the Western world where if you do decide to sleep around with your coworkers and your significant other finds out.. not only can she divorce you she can also take away a good chunk of your money/pride. I mean you can feel free to discuss with her how her jealousy is not an Islamic trait and how only yours is considered virtuous.. but something tells me she will find your case less than compelling and you will find yourself lonely and broke.

Please stop selectively interpreting haddiths about jealousy to fit your agenda. This religion isn't just for delusional men who still live in 7th century Arabia.

You can say that again!

Mashallah God has blessed me with colleagues that work who elicit no affinity whatsoever. I am perfectly serious about this point. My previous job involved working with numbers of bright and attractive young ladies and while professionalism and Islam always won out over attraction - who knows whether I could have held out over years and years of the same experience? So I am grateful for where I am now.

Anyway I am currently abroad (alone) on an assignment with colleagues from another organisation - one of whom is exceptionally personable and charming. I guess an Islamic rulebook simply means that you don't initiate what in the West would be seen as a totally innocent situation (e.g. having a coffee/dinner) - but which has the potential to spiral and is thus banned by Islam.

When did Islam ban having coffee or dinner? :unsure:

I've been thinking about this today, since I've been discussing the work of Robert Axelrod with some people (he is best known for his interdisciplinary work on the evolution of cooperation) - totally different field, but some interesting insights.

Axelrod says that prolonged interaction allows patterns of co-operation to develop, which are based on reciprocity. In addition if interactions become more frequent, this can lead to more stable co-operation because the next move becomes more important than otherwise it would have.

The implications for falling in love IMHO are as follows:

1. particularly where you have e.g. students working with members of the opposite sex, in such areas as assignments, term papers etc. where people are definitely going to be in the same place e.g. for an academic year you are setting up the conditions for co-operative behaviour. To this extent I think it may be debateable as to whether or not we are talking about a conscious decision. So I think smiley could be challenged here.

2. Obviously co-operative behaviour is a million miles from love, but IMHO the greater the contact, the greater the period over which it takes place, the greater the potential.

If anyone thinks I am going absolutely nuts. Axelrod himself refers not only to enemies in his example, but also lovers.

In the area where I work where there is the potential for deep long-term, collaboration with other people - the implication would be to avoid such activity with people with whom there could be potential for something happening.

It depends a lot on the person cooperating. For some men it wouldn't take much time or contact. It might not even necessarily take a very personable or charming woman. A man could be married to someone gorgeous and cheat on her with very questionable women. Then you get the men who wouldn't be tempted by gorgeous women even if their spouse is questionable. But to fall in love is a very conscious decision. Baradar wasn't referring to physical attraction or the initial rush/chemical imbalance we get when we first meet someone we "click" with. He was referring to the conscious decision a person makes to love someone and be with them no matter how much that initial attraction fizzles out. The conscious decision to build something far deeper and morning meaningful on that foundation.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
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I would advise my fellow good looking brothers who already have a girlfriend to avoid females all together, even if she desperately needs help with adjusting her display resolution or verify hadith chains. For men, females and power both equally contribute to moral corruption.

Listen... don't act like youve got the self discipline to completely focus solely on whatever the hijabi is constantly yapping about. Most of you can't tell the difference between then and than let alone be able to determine where interactions with the opposite sex have gone overboard.

For females its a different story all together, its not good looking men that lead to moral corruption, its solely cash, and they're not smart enough to chase power that comes with cash either, just gucci bags/ diamond rings and senseless bling.

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Fascinating definition of loyal. Did you get it from the dictionary of oblivious men who can keep telling themselves that until they get caught and end up grovelling, lonely and bitter?

Not going to get into another one of these debates. All i can say is thank God the majority of us live in the Western world where if you do decide to sleep around with your coworkers and your significant other finds out.. not only can she divorce you she can also take away a good chunk of your money/pride. I mean you can feel free to discuss with her how her jealousy is not an Islamic trait and how only yours is considered virtuous.. but something tells me she will find your case less than compelling and you will find yourself lonely and broke.

Please stop selectively interpreting haddiths about jealousy to fit your agenda. This religion isn't just for delusional men who still live in 7th century Arabia.

If I were to accept your definition of 'loyal' I am afraid both you and I would have to concede that the biblical prophets and those mentioned in the Quran were God Forbid, womanising philanderers. Abraham with Sara and Hajar, Solomon with 700 wives and 300 concubines (Queen of Sheeba among them), David with his escapades, among others, would all become disloyal men.

Not to mention the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his progeny, the 'best model' for all creation and the holy Imams of his House who were all invariably polygynous. It is perhaps this that has led many Marajae to accept and pronounce polygamy as 'mustahab', or recommended. However, for the types who live in the West (and can take away half of her husband's assets while leaving him lonely and broke if his vision strayed) 'loyalty' has a different meaning altogether.

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