Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Al-Mufeed

Fadhlullah - Praising Abu Bakr On T.v

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

The truth is all this propaganda against him has made him more popular. People hear these things about him and then want to go see what he teaches and what all the fuss is about.

I said this to Wahabis before on forums. They think by bashing Shias left and right and putting all this propaganda against them, they will stop people from going to Shiism. It does the opposite, people then come to Shias and ask them questions about their beliefs and reasons why, which leads them to Shiism.

The fact of the matter is this backfires. I feel like the Fatima (as) door incident would hardly be discussed if his opponents didn't all react to his statements like the way they did. People would generally accepted what is agreed upon by the scholars, but the reaction to it has made it otherwise, and has made his statements regarding it popular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your [sic] accusing me of being a Liar please bring forth your proof/evidence.

Post 137 you responded to a post by Orion. Orion's post criticized the behavior of Fadlallah bashers of making things up or exaggerating to achieve the end of steering people from Fadlallah. Your response was, to paraphrase, "We have a duty to push people away from the misguided." You didn't address the core of Orion's critique, and you didn't make any effort to condemn the practice of lying or distortion to serve that end. The impression a reader takes from such a response is that you believe the end justifies the means, and anything goes. Thus my statement that the commandment of amr bil maroof and nahi anil munkar does not negate the commandment to be truthful.

If that was not what you mean to communicate, please elaborate and be more clear.

Edited by kadhim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... he speaks in a way that addresses the actual lived needs of Muslims in the modern reality of the early 21st century. Let's see the others step up in the same fashion.

stated so well i thought it worth repeating.  that is exactly his appeal.  

imo, "conservatives" help to give the religion a solid structure so that it is not constantly changing on passionate whims, and the "liberals" help to push it forward in the ever-changing times.   the umbrella Islam provides is big enough to contain both.  there is only one Islam, however there are a billion+ understandings of it.  i think we should recognize the function of the liberal-conservative dynamic instead of what is going on in this thread.  

we are not all alike.  get over it already. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok just to make a note here, if someone believes that a certain individual is detrimental to people's faith and the religion, it is Islamically allowed to do tohmat upon them (slander) as long as the conditions are met.

Do you mean to argue that that includes lying? Lying is a sin unless your life is at stake. How can a sin serve the truth? If someone has problems, just state them without exaggeration. If fabrications or exaggerations are added to "puff things up," then when the lies are discovered they undermine whatever truth might have been told. That's the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Orion, you say Fadlallah may have been doing taqiyyah, but from what and whom? from sunnis or shias? as noted by others, he supposedly calls these certain select companions as oppressors. do you think the sunnis are unaware of this? i think the shia of today fall apart with the smallest arguments. may Allah gives us more aql and ilm, inshaAllah.

Edited by gogiison2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Post 137 you responded to a post by Orion. Orion's post criticized the behavior of Fadlallah bashers of making things up or exaggerating to achieve the end of steering people from Fadlallah. Your response was, to paraphrase, "We have a duty to push people away from the misguided." You didn't address the core of Orion's critique, and you didn't make any effort to condemn the practice of lying or distortion to serve that end. The impression a reader takes from such a response is that you believe the end justifies the means, and anything goes. Thus my statement that the commandment of amr bil maroof and nahi anil munkar does not negate the commandment to be truthful.

If that was not what you mean to communicate, please elaborate and be more clear.

I never stated any one should lie or make any information up about any one. Lying is a great sin. In fact Orion's post did not even say any thing about lying or making any thing up, let me go ahead and quote post 137 that you are referring to:

Because of all these fatwas you deemed him to be the "bad guy" and thought well he is bad anyway, why not add one more point to make him look worse. You used these fatwas as an excuse to start a campaign against him. You decided to take things in your own hand, even when the fatwas did not specifically commanded you to do so (or did they?).

Dhal Muadhil, cooperation with him is haram - Ayatullah Uzama Marhoom Mirza Jawad Tabrizi (ra) , who at the time of his death, was considered to be the A'lam scholar in the howza of Qum in the feild of jurisprudence.

There is not much more I need to say aside from that. Hence it is the duty of believers to warn others about him, and make sure that no one is misguided by him. Its one of the tenants of our religion (Shi'sm)

Amr bil maroof Wa nahi an al munkar.

That is post 137, could you please show me where in the post Orion used the words lying, exaggerating or any thing to that extent.

It seems like you are the one who is resorting to lies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam),

Wow... :mellow: I can't believe you actually compared Sayyida Fatimah's (as) actions to Fadlallah's actions. This is sad. :(

Yes, there are a lot of different opinions in Islam. I'm well aware of that. But you must also be aware that only one of these are likely to be correct? Instead of accepting abuses and insults from people all around the world, why doesn't your Marja' explain why exactly he found the incident doubtful? Students debating on topics is one thing, a Marja' who is followed by many declaring that found the incident which is agreed upon that it happened, as something doubtful, is another. Whatever the students say in their arguments isn't released in public, since their opinion doesn't really matter to people.

Fine, I agree Maraji' have different findings. However, differences arise on very minor issues; not something as largely accepted as the burning of Sayyida Fatimah's (as) house.

wa (salam)

(salam)

Brother, it is similar, as Fatima (as) stood up against a lie, similarly ayatollah fadlullah is speaking his findings in which he says there is no solid proof that such a thing happened. as for ayatollah fadlullah's stand on this he has already said enough, what more is there to say then that there is either rijal issues or matn issues in these narrations that brings in to a conclusion that he just can not say if it did or not. and many many times you must have seen jondab here giving rijal information on this matter and these narrations?

what is really bad is that we are all suppose to believe something that there is no solid proof in it just because many of you feel it is the truth.

(wasalam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Orion, you say Fadlallah may have been doing taqiyyah, but from what and whom? from sunnis or shias? as noted by others, he supposedly calls these certain select companions as oppressors. do you think the sunnis are unaware of this? i think the shia of today fall apart with the smallest arguments. may Allah gives us more aql and ilm, inshaAllah.

Certain companions are very respectable for the Sunnis. Yet these companions did a lot of harm to Islam in general and the Ahlul Bait (as) in particular. These harms are written in Sunni books but the Sunni scholars hide these facts from them.

We want Sunnis to know the whole truth about these companions. If Sunnis see any sign of disrespect they get offended, close their ears and run away. So how can we get our message accross. We discuss issues with them politely without disrespecting them and at the same time show them what they did. Once they have listened to us, they go back and confirm them in their books.

WS

Edited by Orion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The link to Fadhlullahs porn fatwah

http://english.bayyn...rudence/sex.htm

Is no longer working. Strange it worked fine yesterday.

(salam)

what marja do you follow?

are you usooli shia?

i think you should let this fatwa go, he obviously felt it was right and set up many precautions around it, a marja is not infallible so he cannot be 100% right, when someone considers a matter, they look into it in depth, from all points if views, medical and islamic views, as well as the view of the people in such circumstances, then they determine what they feel is best. if you can look at all these fields then i think you can come here and tell us what you feel is right. clearly ayatollah fadlullah has done some thinking on such fatwa's and if he is wrong he is wrong Allah knows and he cannot be right all the time. but until we all search through this matter in all areas and all views and consider them outside of what we may think by just looking at something. we should not say a marja is a source of fitnah over such a thing that he felt and researched to be what he felt as right. I will tell you about myself, when i heard about sex change surgery for people, i disliked this idea, then i search more into it only a little not much and even meant someone over the internet who is in such a circumstance and determine that this is okay if it is to replace someones gender to the right gender. not all things can be determined on the spot nor can they be to our own desires. if something may be considered medical treatment and this is what helps them then an ayatollah determines his fatwa on if it is best that they may be within the treatment that is recommended or not (so it is very important for an marja to consider things from different views, to see what iis best, in his view). so Allah knows best, i do understand that this is a matter that needs deep consideration from all views also to consider what kind of place the marja lives in and the time.

of course we all know it is wrong to look at the private areas of people, but this is something that also changes depending on if the person is in need of help or in rough circumstances such as if a women is have been as example shoot near her breast and she arrives at the ER only male doctors there, it would be completely allowed to save her life and treat her even though the fact that one will have the woman's breast in view, as the circumstances have overcome the matter, where as a normal person is completely forbidden to look at such things and cannot. they are in no such circumstances.

If ayatollah fadlullah is wrong, you should still let it go, he is a fallible man and all other marja, and we can search through the other marja and find things to say as well. it still don't make one a source of fitnah if they used some thinking and came up with the wrong advise on a matter when they have many many many other matters they have come with correct advise on.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^

agree with theunknownpreacher --- it is quite incredible (but nor surprising) to see just how low Shia Chat admin is stooping by continuing to allow insults against Ayatullah Fadhlullah --- this thread was hardly "closely moderated" --- clearly the admin. of Shia Chat does not recognize Ayatullah Fadhlullah as a marja, and thus has allowed this and other threads to continue without even the least bit of consequence against those members of their admin. team who have made it their campaign to malign a marja ... The particular fatwa in question is filled with precautions, and is only allowed as a very last resort, even then it is filled with precaution ... it is interesting that in case of their own marja, if questions are raised about specific fatwa, they will insist that as individuals we don't know enough to question the marja --- yet, when it comes to Ayatullah Fadhlullah they have no problem in carrying on this "discussion" in the most insulting manner - without any sort of intervention by the Shia Chat admin, whatsoever. This kind of behavior on part of Shia Chat admin. is nothing short of promoting intra-Shia sectarianism - and the accusers of "fitna" are, in reality, the ones who are promoting fitna themselves, a sad, but not surprising situation, given how Shia Chat operates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam),

(bismillah)

What you have said is problematic. In matters of religion, there are no personal views. And majority has no weight over the minority when it comes to Allahs commands. If you look at hadith from the Massomeen (as) on difference of opinions among scholars, it does not say follow the majority view.

Fine. I agree. My opinion is of no worth, at all. But it's not completely about 'majority wins!' here (though yes, the fact that a very great majority supports one opinion, increases it's likelihood of being true). We are to use the four sources of law, I understand that. And the opinion, which goes by it, is to be taken as the correct one. There are a lot of ahadith that suggest Fatimah's (as) house was burnt. Is one to take these ahadith, as being true (supported by many scholars) or is one to take that all these ahadith are weak (supported by one or two scholars)? It's Fadlallah's history of fatawa + fatawa issued against him that weaken his opinion. It's really not just about the majority.

I would like to see those ahadith, please.

I don't follow the Sayyed. But the logic being used in this thread against him is baseless.

Lets review the points put forward against him so far:

-Since some scholars have issued fatwa against him, he is the bad guy and therefore its OK for us to start a campaign against him

.

Some? AFAIK, at least 12 Ayatullahs have talked against him. And among them are Ayatullah Sistani, Ayt. Bashir Najafi, Ayt. Waheed Khorasani, and many more respected scholars. Yes, some of them have not only declared it 'OK' to start a campaign against him, but have declared it mandatory for the faithful within their ability.

-His fatwas are against traditional views, so he must be wrong.

No. That is not why they are wrong. They have no meaning because other scholars have said that he is not a Mujtahid.

-His views are opposite those of the majority of scholars, and majority is always right so he must be wrong.

-His fatawa and has opinions conflict those of other equally qualified scholars, so they are right and he is wrong.

This issue would be raised when a Mujtahid opposes another (body of) Mujtahid(een). So no, his views do not conflict equally qualified scholars ( I was just saying that to get my point across). His views and fatwas conflict those of more qualified than him.

-If other Shia scholars say (ra) its Taqayah, when he says it he is "praising" the khalifa.

Well yeah, he does have the benefit of doubt, I guess.

Do you guys have anything better than these weak arguments presented so far?

Hardly any one of them were 'weak'. Marjas saying that one marja isn't a mujtahid, is no 'weak' argument.

wa (salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam),

I'm not even going to get into it. These issues have been discussed before. What I will say is this. If the clergy who supposedly have nothing better to do than demonize the man were to spend half the time they spend doing so in analyzing and learning from the things that Fadlallah does right so as to cause so many to consider him so relevant and helpful, (and no, it goes well beyond some supposed "liberality," my unimaginative and simplistic brethren) then the clergy might be succesful in halting their steady decline toward irrelevance in the eyes of believers. Whatever shortcomings the man may have (and many of these supposed shortcomings are easily seen to be exaggerated or fabricated by opponents willing to lie for their cause), he speaks in a way that addresses the actual lived needs of Muslims in the modern reality of the early 21st century. Let's see the others step up in the same fashion.

Umm... don't all Mujtahideen do that? I don't see your point. The task of the religious cleric is that he deals with the lived problems of the Muslims in their day-to-day lives, and solve them within the boundaries of limits set by Islam. Just because the 'solutions' by one cleric are easier to implement that those of others, does not elevate his status is any way. In fact, it would only degrade it, if his solutions are against what Islam teaches us.

Apparently, the clergy only need to produce a few fatawa against him. The clerics have a lot more to do, than to go around pinpointing errors and mistakes of another cleric, if that's what you're trying to suggest.

wa (salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

Brother, it is similar, as Fatima (as) stood up against a lie, similarly ayatollah fadlullah is speaking his findings in which he says there is no solid proof that such a thing happened. as for ayatollah fadlullah's stand on this he has already said enough, what more is there to say then that there is either rijal issues or matn issues in these narrations that brings in to a conclusion that he just can not say if it did or not. and many many times you must have seen jondab here giving rijal information on this matter and these narrations?

No, they are not similar and comparable. Fatimah (as) knew the consequence of standing up for her right; it wouldn't cause disunity, since it was just a property. Imam Ali (as) knew the consequence of standing up for his right; it would cause disunity, since it was a political matter.

Yes, rijal is the issue. What else could be the reason of him not accepting widely accepted ahadith?

Jondab accepting and relying on his rijal, does not make it right, whatsoever.

clearly the admin. of Shia Chat does not recognize Ayatullah Fadhlullah as a marja,

FYI, neither do other leading Marjas, such as Ayatullah Sistani.

wa (salam)

Edited by Basim Ali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam),

Umm... don't all Mujtahideen do that? I don't see your point. The task of the religious cleric is that he deals with the lived problems of the Muslims in their day-to-day lives, and solve them within the boundaries of limits set by Islam. Just because the 'solutions' by one cleric are easier to implement that those of others, does not elevate his status is any way. In fact, it would only degrade it, if his solutions are against what Islam teaches us.

Apparently, the clergy only need to produce a few fatawa against him. The clerics have a lot more to do, than to go around pinpointing errors and mistakes of another cleric, if that's what you're trying to suggest.

wa (salam)

They don't really all do that, no. What most do is drop a terse one or two line fatwa in response to a specific question, and usually they limit themselves to relatively arcane topics. They position themselves almost as distant oracles on the mountaintop. Fadlallah makes more effort to elaborate some reasoning and principles in an open, accessible way, and to speak intelligently and in detail on the issues of the day. There's a more down to earth level to the communication. The difference is very noticeable when you compare between the two approaches. As I said before - and it bears repeating, because I see you have grasped at this above as a quick way sort of dismissal - it is not about the solutions being "easier." This is a slander on those who follow the man's guidance. It is a matter of people finding that he demonstrates a concrete understanding of their lived reality in a way that they don't sense from other scholars.

stated so well i thought it worth repeating.  that is exactly his appeal.  

imo, "conservatives" help to give the religion a solid structure so that it is not constantly changing on passionate whims, and the "liberals" help to push it forward in the ever-changing times.   the umbrella Islam provides is big enough to contain both.  there is only one Islam, however there are a billion+ understandings of it.  i think we should recognize the function of the liberal-conservative dynamic instead of what is going on in this thread.  

we are not all alike.  get over it already. 

Well put. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They don't really all do that, no. What most do is drop a terse one or two line fatwa in response to a specific question, and usually they limit themselves to relatively arcane topics. They position themselves almost as distant oracles on the mountaintop. Fadlallah makes more effort to elaborate some reasoning and principles in an open, accessible way, and to speak intelligently and in detail on the issues of the day. There's a more down to earth level to the communication. The difference is very noticeable when you compare between the two approaches. As I said before - and it bears repeating, because I see you have grasped at this above as a quick way sort of dismissal - it is not about the solutions being "easier." This is a slander on those who follow the man's guidance. It is a matter of people finding that he demonstrates a concrete understanding of their lived reality in a way that they don't sense from other scholars.

Why don't you try actually getting competent in Arabic first so you can read their works before making such blanket pronouncements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't you try actually getting competent in Arabic first so you can read their works before making such blanket pronouncements.

1. You don't know anything about my level of competence.

2. Get some manners.

3. Such competence is not even required to make the observation. Fadlallah, and a few others put detailed discussion of topics out there in an accessible, down to earth fashion meant for average people to read and benefit from. Most others only widely distribute terse fatwas and leave the detailed discussion for specialist publications. This is easily observable and in no way controversial.

The phenomenon of Fadlallah's relative popularity, despite a mountain of harsh propaganda against him, needs to be properly explained. The casual dismissal explanation that it's because he's "liberal" and "accommodating" (and by extension, because his followers are libertines) is far too superficial, from where I stand.

Edited by kadhim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scholars discuss the details of how they derive their rulings, and the information is available on the internet. Ayatulllah Sadiq Rohani for example goes in to great detail on allot of fiqh issues on his website. If you were proficient in arabic you would be able to read these things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scholars discuss the details of how they derive their rulings, and the information is available on the internet. Ayatulllah Sadiq Rohani for example goes in to great detail on allot of fiqh issues on his website. If you were proficient in arabic you would be able to read these things.

Naw, you miss the point. Accessibility is much more than something simply being published somewhere in a book or on the internet. It also goes beyond the simple matter of fiqhi judgments and explaining details of reasoning behind a ruling. It's also a matter of weaving into this an applying of ethical principles to active, timely addressing of contemporary events. He weaves these things together in a way that few others out there even attempt. I don't know how much more explicitly I can explain it; you look at his website for example and compare it to most of the others, and you see a difference in the approach and style of what is talked about and how.

Edited by kadhim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is fadhullah any more accessible?

The scholars publish tons of their work in books, make it available on the internet, they answer questions through email, or by phone, you can visit them in person, and many of the scholars you can call their office and half the time you can usually speak to them directly if you inform them that you are calling from some where that makes it inconvenient for you to visit them in person.

So what does fadhlulah do beyond that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is fadhullah any more accessible?

The scholars publish tons of their work in books, make it available on the internet, they answer questions through email, or by phone, you can visit them in person, and many of the scholars you can call their office and half the time you can usually speak to them directly if you inform them that you are calling from some where that makes it inconvenient for you to visit them in person.

So what does fadhlulah do beyond that?

I don't know what any further explanation is going to accomplish if you don't see it. Accessibility is more than information being on a webserver for download. It's more about what sorts of things are discussed and how they are explained than the mere being present to explain.

Photi seems to understand me. If he feels inspired and wants to elaborate, I'll leave it to him.

Answer me this, however: To what do you attribute his popularity? Do you wish to claim that it is simply a matter of him being "easier" than others?

Edited by kadhim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I think most of you are missing the point here given the last couple of posts. What is clearly being hinted at and implied is that a marja who understand the mindset or tries and engage with a mindset of the western Shias is better than one who sits behind closed doors teaching or giving fatwas. It is not about web servers, publications or classes. Not that I feel such a claim is valid or that I support it, just thought I would mention that since many of you have missed that point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shame on those of you who are starting and promoting this fitnah. With friends like this, who needs enemies.

Fear God, have humility, and if you seriously want to take someone up on ijtihad, have a scholarly discussion - don't just keep passing around opinions and rumors.

Otherwise you are free to become your own mujtahid and become a mujtahid yourself, and who knows, if you ever reach half that level of knowledge, you might discover that you have changed your minds about a lot of things.

If you do not wish to do that, then respect those who have put forth the effot to learn and think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Answer me this, however: To what do you attribute his popularity? Do you wish to claim that it is simply a matter of him being "easier" than others?

In a word: yes.

His rulings are more flexible for those living in the Western world. If that is what you mean by accesibility. Some of his followers have even admitted this themselves, which in itself is a wrong reason for following a marja' from the Usooli point of view.

Guys, I think most of you are missing the point here given the last couple of posts. What is clearly being hinted at and implied is that a marja who understand the mindset or tries and engage with a mindset of the western Shias is better than one who sits behind closed doors teaching or giving fatwas. It is not about web servers, publications or classes. Not that I feel such a claim is valid or that I support it, just thought I would mention that since many of you have missed that point.

This suggests that knowing a "western" Shia is more important than knowing other Shias. And that reeks of arrogance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shame on those of you who are starting and promoting this fitnah. With friends like this, who needs enemies.

Fear God, have humility, and if you seriously want to take someone up on ijtihad, have a scholarly discussion - don't just keep passing around opinions and rumors.

We should be ashamed?

But there is no shame in saying that Pornography should be used to help peoples marital problems?

May Allah hasten the return of the Imam (as).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In a word: yes.

And this is why others generally don't learn from his successes. Because of failing, like you, to accurately account for the success.

His rulings are more flexible for those living in the Western world. If that is what you mean by accesibility.

It's not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice thread, guys. ;) You know there is a personality in the Sunni world named Dr. Tariq Ramadan who has to deal with the same thing. Let's just say that all the criticism from Muslims and non-Muslims hasn't harmed his popularity. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I think most of you are missing the point here given the last couple of posts. What is clearly being hinted at and implied is that a marja who understand the mindset or tries and engage with a mindset of the western Shias is better than one who sits behind closed doors teaching or giving fatwas. It is not about web servers, publications or classes. Not that I feel such a claim is valid or that I support it, just thought I would mention that since many of you have missed that point.

Well, at least for such Western Muslims or those in modernized or rapidly modernizing societies where similar experiences are widespread.

^ He is popular for several reasons:

1. Like you said, easier to follow--appeals to those living in the West

2. Often appears publicly

3. He is Lebanese, the only Lebanese marja inside Lebanon (leads to a big following from Lebanese people in and outside of Lebanon)

4. Controversy surrounding him

That's all you can think of?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please stop this nonsense and fitna mongering,

because next, people will start picking the faults

with your own marja whom you may think is so

perfect. But put under the same microscope we

don't know.

Was-Salaam

Edited by JawzofDETH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please stop this nonsense and fitna mongering,

because next, people will start picking the faults

with your own marja whom you may think is so

perfect. But put under the same microscope we

don't know.

Was-Salaam

Feel free to question the rulings/statements/opinions of any Marja that you wish, and come and discuss them.

The reality is no one needs to put Fadhlullahs positions under a microscope to see the huge problems. Next time Ayatullah (fill in the name here) tells people its acceptable to watch pornography to help their marital life, give me a call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reality is no one needs to put Fadhlullahs positions under a microscope to see the huge problems. Next time Ayatullah (fill in the name here) tells people its acceptable to watch pornography to help their marital life, give me a call.

What if Ayatullah (fill in the name here) told people its acceptable to rub your penis in between a 2 year old girl's thighs? Is that less problematic than watching porn?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if Ayatullah (fill in the name here) told people its acceptable to rub your penis in between a 2 year old girl's thighs? Is that less problematic than watching porn?

Is that blank your daddy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure what you mean but I hope you do realise quite a few marjas allow precisely what I described. So please guys let's not act as if allowing porn under certain strict conditions was so shocking and unacceptable that we have to single out fadlullah as some kind of a pervert.

Edited by 786abdullah786

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...