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Nowruz

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Nowruz is the start of spring so that is when our year starts... on Nowruz we set a table with 7 symbols starting with the letter 'S' . This is called the ' Haft Seen' table. 1. sabzeh(سبزه) - whe

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Iranian celebrate this because it is New Year...

Yes. I am trying to figure out the Islamic significance of Nawruz if any. Some hold that it is associated with Islam and refer to hadiths/traditions which are apparently found in our works of hadiths. Others claim it is exclusively Iranian, cultural, historically older than Islam, and has nothing to do with the religion whatsoever.

I had a discussion with my mom who thinks Nawruz has Islamic component and that there are many recommended duas for the day and that 'many things happened on this day'??

When did an Iranian festival came to be known as and associated with Islam?

What say you folks?

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Happy Nawrooz to Iranians.

Btw, it seems a good opportunity to ask if Nawrooz is in any way associated with Islam?

What is Nawrooz? Can some Iranian brief me on the background and what it entails?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Happy Nowrouz! There is the hadith that the Holy Prophet SA appointed Imam Ali AS as his successor at Qadeer Khum.

Not to mention the hadiths from Prophet SA and Imam Ali AS, the people visit their relatives on Nowrouz. Sile Rahm

The Holy Qur'an shows that we have responsibilities toward our relatives.

Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred... [Holy Quran: Baqara: 2:215]

Traditions About Visiting Relatives

The Prophet (pbuh) said:

Help your relatives, even if you give them a drink of water. The best form of helping relatives is not to bother them. [bihar al-Anwar, v.74, p.103].

The relatives' feelings get injured when they are ignored or belittled. That is why the best form of helping relatives is not to injure their feelings. He also said: Visit your relatives in this world even if you just say hello. [bihar al-Anwar, v.74, p.104]

The Prophet (pbuh) has been narrated as saying: Walk one year to visit your relatives. He also has said the following in an important tradition: To the society at this time and the times to come, and those who are in their father's loin or their mother's womb, I advise you all to visit your relatives even if it takes a whole year. Indeed visiting your relatives is a part of your religion. [ibid].

There are many important traditions which outline the benefits of visiting relatives. [bihar al-Anwar, v.74, pp.111-126]. We will cite a few of these traditions here. Imam Baqir said:

Visiting relatives will purify your deeds, increase your wealth, remove any catastrophes, and delay the time of your death.

Imam Sadiq said: Visiting relatives and doing good deeds will ease the accounting for our deeds in the Hereafter, and will protect us from committing sins. Then visit your relatives and be kind with your brethren, even if it is just limited to warm greetings.

The Prophet (pbuh) said: Visiting relatives will prolong your life and eliminate poverty. Visiting relatives will expand towns, and prolong the lives, even if those you visit are not good people. God shall grant the reward of one hundred martyrs to the one who visits his relatives and helps them with his life and property. For each step that you take to visit your relatives, God will record four thousand good deeds, and remove four thousand evil deeds, and provide four thousand raises in your status. It is just as if you have sincerely worshipped God for one-hundred years.

The Prophet (pbuh) said: There is a heavenly status that only those who are just leaders, visit their relatives, or patiently take care of their wife and children shall attain. He told Abuzar to go to visit his relatives, even if they go mad when seeing him. He said if they did not accept you, go again. Finally you will succeed. If they do not follow God's orders, don't follow suit.

A man told the Prophet (pbuh) that he visited his relatives, but some of them bothered him, and he wanted to cut off his relations with them. The Prophet (pbuh) told him that if he did that, God would abandon all of them. He asked what he should do. The Prophet (pbuh) told him to visit those who cut off their relations, and forgive those who mistreated him. Then God will raise him higher in status over them.

Source: http://www.rafed.net/english/books/family/family/26.html#217

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Yes. I am trying to figure out the Islamic significance of Nawruz if any.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Nowrouz from an Islamic Perspective

By Abdul Latif Nazari

Eid literally means repeated happiness which occurs every year.1 It is said that the day on which people gather together and also the returning to overall happiness is known as Eid. Because on this day Divine Blessings along with happiness are sent to people.2

On Eid day, mankind cleanses his soul and heart of impurities by prayer and supplication to God and as a result returns to his pure nature. Praying to God and longing to be in His great presence, gives man the ability to obey and submit to nothing and no one but Him on the day of Eid. So, the real Eid is the day on which no disobedience to God exists and Muslims are physically and mentally free from oppression. The objective of Eid in Islam is for mankind to build his character by prayer and fasting especially on this day and to control his capricious and violent desires and his soul. A soul that is not afraid of God and the Day of Resurrection and does not follow the Divine laws and regularities will corrupt the whole world.

In this regard, Imam Ali (as) said:

“Eid is the Day on which no disobedience to God exists.3”

He means that the day of quitting sins, purity and returning to pure nature is Eid.

Nowrouz in the Words of Ahl ul-Bait (as)

Some Traditions (Ahadith) express the grandeur of Eid, because they mention that Eid-ul-Ghadir coincides some year with Eid Nowrouz, is the first day of Farvardin of the year of the solar year. For this reason Shi’as and Iranians respect this day very much.4

One of Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq’s (as) companions said: “On the Eid of Nowrouz I was in the presence of Imam Sadiq (as), he asked me: ‘Do you know this day?’ I replied, ‘this is the day on which Iranians offer presents to each others and celebrate’”

Imam Sadiq (as) said: “Today is the day on which God made a pact with His servants to pray to Him not to follow polytheism and to follow the Prophets (as) and Ahlul-Bait (as). On this day the last Imam, the Awaited Al-Mahdi (as) is expected to reappear, because Nowrouz belongs to the Shi’as and the Iranians.5

In fact, Nowrouz has the smell and color of submission to God.

Nowrouz in the Words of Great Personalities

Sayyid Ibn Tavoos writes: “Since the world was created on this day, it deserves to be happy on this day and this day is called Nowrouz.”6

Ibn Fahd Helli said: “Nowrouz is a great and glorified day.”7

Imam Khomeini (ra) used to send a message to the public every year on the occasion of Nowrouz. He composed a poem as follows:

On Eid everyone goes to the desserts and the gardens

I, drowsy, go towards Allah

Nowrouz’s Customs

Sile Rahm:

One of the best and most valuable customs of Nowrouz is meeting relatives which in Islam is called ‘Sil-e Rahm’.

Verily, the relationship among family-members and relatives is one of the strongest social relations. In this relation in addition to respect and love, affection exists. This relationship must be strengthened by visiting and helping relatives.

The culture of Sil-e Rahm which is one of the important Islamic social directions purifies the soul and quenches the thirst for love and affection. Lack of opportunity in obeying this Islamic rule is an excuse for some people. So the Nowrouz holidays is the best opportunity for Muslims to perform this Islamic act and to meet their relatives. God has granted many benefits for the performing of Sile Rahm.9

Pilgrimage

Performing the pilgrimage and visiting the shrines of the Prophets, Imams (as) and Great Muslims also helps man to purify his soul from the impurities of base desires.10

House Cleaning and Neatness

Another good custom of Nowrouz is house-cleaning. Islam stresses cleaning and health rules. The Prophet (SAW) says: “God is Tayyib (Pure) and He loves at-Tayyib (Purity). He is Nazif (Clean) and loves an-Nezafat (Cleanliness).”11

And again the Prophet (SAW) says: “As far as is possible and you are able to, pay attention to cleanliness, because God founded Islam on cleanliness and unclean ones will never enter Paradise.”12

On the day of Nowrouz it is a custom to offer gifts and presents to each other, especially to children. This binds the relationship among relatives and increases their love for each other.

Imam Reza (as) says: “Treat your children well and be kind to them, because they think that you feed them.”13 (meaning that because you see to their every need do not be unkind o them so that they feel indebted to you).

While offering gifts, elders must maintain equality among the children in order not to create jealous between them.

Reciting Qur’an and Supplications (Du’a) in all of the Nowrouz customs results in blessings, happiness and prosperity.

Footnotes:

1. Kauthar, monthly, No. 13, p. 34

2. Islamic Eids and Nowrouz, Asadullah Muhammadi Nia, p. 9

3. Tafsir Nemouneh, vol. 5, p. 131

4. Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 59

5. Forty Hadith Eid, Mahmood Latifi, p. 4

6. Farhang Kauthar, No. 37, p. 32

7. Ibid

8. The Poets of Imam Khomeini (ra), p. 39

9. Kauthar, No. 34, p. 7

10. Ibid.

11. Akhlaq Islami, p. 133

12. Ibid.

13. Forty Hadith Eid, p. 39

Source: http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=4248

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^

Thank you Hameedeh for the information. I have a few questions.

You and the other poster have cited only two hadith which somehow seem to link Nawruz to Islam. First, the hadith which says that Prophet appointed Imam Ali his successor in Ghadeer Khum on Nawruz. Second, you quote one [possibly two] hadiths of Imam Sadiq vis-a-via Nawruz. I quote them below:

One of Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq’s (as) companions said: “On the Eid of Nowrouz I was in the presence of Imam Sadiq (as), he asked me: ‘Do you know this day?’ I replied, ‘this is the day on which Iranians offer presents to each others and celebrate’”

Imam Sadiq (as) said: “Today is the day on which God made a pact with His servants to pray to Him not to follow polytheism and to follow the Prophets (as) and Ahlul-Bait (as). On this day the last Imam, the Awaited Al-Mahdi (as) is expected to reappear, because Nowrouz belongs to the Shi’as and the Iranians.5

In fact, Nowrouz has the smell and color of submission to God.

Where does this hadith end? I don't see the commas for end of quote.

Imam's companion, who was most probably a non-Iranian, mentions Nawruz with reference to Iranians not Shias/Muslims. So is it right to assume that there was no tradition of celebrating Nawruz in Arabia? If there was an Islamic connection to Nawruz then there must have been a tradition of celebrating Nawruz or an equivalent day in Arab. But there was no such thing. So how and when did Nawruz get connected to Islam?

The rest of your posts deals with the customs of Nawruz and how it is celebrated, about hadiths on visiting family members etc which are generally applicable on every day not just on Nawruz. It appears to me that the authors put a great effort [but unsuccessful in my opinion] to Islamise Nawruz. And how Nawruz can be called eid??

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^

Thank you Hameedeh for the information. I have a few questions.

You and the other poster have cited only two hadith which somehow seem to link Nawruz to Islam. First, the hadith which says that Prophet appointed Imam Ali his successor in Ghadeer Khum on Nawruz. Second, you quote one [possibly two] hadiths of Imam Sadiq vis-a-via Nawruz. I quote them below:

Where does this hadith end? I don't see the commas for end of quote.

Imam's companion, who was most probably a non-Iranian, mentions Nawruz with reference to Iranians not Shias/Muslims. So is it right to assume that there was no tradition of celebrating Nawruz in Arabia? If there was an Islamic connection to Nawruz then there must have been a tradition of celebrating Nawruz or an equivalent day in Arab. But there was no such thing. So how and when did Nawruz get connected to Islam?

The rest of your posts deals with the customs of Nawruz and how it is celebrated, about hadiths on visiting family members etc which are generally applicable on every day not just on Nawruz. It appears to me that the authors put a great effort [but unsuccessful in my opinion] to Islamise Nawruz. And how Nawruz can be called eid??

(bismillah)

(salam)

Not sure, brother. I am not a scholar on Islamic or Iranian history. The numbers on the quotes are like footnotes.

If you scroll to the bottom of that post it shows in the Notes section what the reference is for each quote so you can look it up in the original source.

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Nowruz is the start of spring so that is when our year starts... on Nowruz we set a table with 7 symbols starting with the letter 'S' . This is called the ' Haft Seen' table.

1. sabzeh(ÓÈÒå) - wheat, barley or lentil sprouts growing in a dish - symbolizing rebirth

2. samanu (Óãäæ)- a sweet pudding made from wheat germ - symbolizing affluence

3. senjed (ÓäÌÏ)- the dried fruit of the oleaster tree - symbolizing love

4. sîr (ÓیÑ)- garlic - symbolizing medicine

5. sîb (ÓیÈ)- apples - symbolizing beauty and health

6. somaq (ÓãÇÞ)- sumac berries - symbolizing (the colour of) sunrise

7. serkeh (Óјå)- vinegar - symbolizing age and patience

is this not some kind of Shirk?

what do you mean by "symbolise" whats the significance?

from what I have learnt about this celebration, there seems to be alot associated with "good luck" and superstision relating to the comming year, its roots are not in Islam and these kinds of practices seem to be contradictory to Islam, wa Allahu 3alem. can anyone explain where this table thing came from, and why these 7 things are important and the benefit of them etc...

thanks.

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I am asking a genuine question and so would expect genuine answers.

there is no need to be stupid.

Sorry but that was a stupid question. Do you even know what 'Shirk' is by definition?

Do you have to relate everything with 'shirk'?

You could say that, during Nawroz some things are practiced that YOU don't like them...But, I did not see any reason for you to use the term shirk.

It is the only two popular words you all understand and use: 1. Shirk 2. Bid'a and none of you even know how to use them and where to use them.

XX is drinking alcohol he is doing Shirk... ZZ is not praying, he is doing bid'a... YY is eating banana, he is a Mushrik... BB is mixing chicken with salad, it is bid'a..

For God's sake how could preparing 7 dry fruits and vegetables that symbolize something etc.. for Nawroz feast is somehow being 'Shirk'? Are you retarded or what?

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is this not some kind of Shirk?

what do you mean by "symbolise" whats the significance?

from what I have learnt about this celebration, there seems to be alot associated with "good luck" and superstision relating to the comming year, its roots are not in Islam and these kinds of practices seem to be contradictory to Islam, wa Allahu 3alem. can anyone explain where this table thing came from, and why these 7 things are important and the benefit of them etc...

thanks.

Yes it is, it will take time to get rid of such nonsense and stick to the divine issues of nowroz.

Sorry but that was a stupid question. Do you even know what 'Shirk' is by definition?

Do you have to relate everything with 'shirk'?

You could say that, during Nawroz some things are practiced that YOU don't like them...But, I did not see any reason for you to use the term shirk.

It is the only two popular words you all understand and use: 1. Shirk 2. Bid'a and none of you even know how to use them and where to use them.

XX is drinking alcohol he is doing Shirk... ZZ is not praying, he is doing bid'a... YY is eating banana, he is a Mushrik... BB is mixing chicken with salad, it is bid'a..

For God's sake how could preparing 7 dry fruits and vegetables that symbolize something etc.. for Nawroz feast is somehow being 'Shirk'? Are you retarded or what?

Bro dont get emotional, the sister is right.

Now if you personally ask any ulama they will tell you the same. However they wont go public about it because to get rid of non islamic traditions like this takes time, and you can´t shuv it in peoples faces. You have to educate them. Preparing fruit or other stuff is not shirk. The shirk is in the fact that people think that if its 7 its correct, and that it has to start with "s" etc. They put mirrios etc. And the worst part is that they put Quran in the middle of all this.

Your akhlagh doesn´t help anyone understand anything any better, and you sure as hell wont be able to teach or learn going forth like that bro.

The sister asked a pretty valid question, and she deserves a proper answer.

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Yes it is, it will take time to get rid of such nonsense and stick to the divine issues of nowroz.

Bro dont get emotional, the sister is right.

Now if you personally ask any ulama they will tell you the same. However they wont go public about it because to get rid of non islamic traditions like this takes time, and you can´t shuv it in peoples faces. You have to educate them. Preparing fruit or other stuff is not shirk. The shirk is in the fact that people think that if its 7 its correct, and that it has to start with "s" etc. They put mirrios etc. And the worst part is that they put Quran in the middle of all this.

Your akhlagh doesn´t help anyone understand anything any better, and you sure as hell wont be able to teach or learn going forth like that bro.

The sister asked a pretty valid question, and she deserves a proper answer.

It's not shirk unless people are worshipping the seven items or associating them with God.

They are not.

You are wrong.

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Yes it is, it will take time to get rid of such nonsense and stick to the divine issues of nowroz.

Bro dont get emotional, the sister is right.

Now if you personally ask any ulama they will tell you the same. However they wont go public about it because to get rid of non islamic traditions like this takes time, and you can´t shuv it in peoples faces. You have to educate them. Preparing fruit or other stuff is not shirk. The shirk is in the fact that people think that if its 7 its correct, and that it has to start with "s" etc. They put mirrios etc. And the worst part is that they put Quran in the middle of all this.

Your akhlagh doesn´t help anyone understand anything any better, and you sure as hell wont be able to teach or learn going forth like that bro.

The sister asked a pretty valid question, and she deserves a proper answer.

lol it is very surprising that it comes from you.

Now, back to this 'shirk' business... Am I blind or is there some 'secret' opinions and descriptions on 'shirk'?

"People will think if its 7 its correct and start with 's' then it is shirk" ? maybe some kind of sin or something or they are wronged, but shrik?....

People believe White stands for peace and green for health and nature and blue for this and that... now everybody on planet is Mushrik?

"garlic - symbolizing medicine and apples - symbolizing beauty and health" is shirk LOL

I thought you studied religion and clearly might understand the usage of 'shirk' according to Quranic verses... not that for everything there is a shirk and bid'a just like Salafi folks do...

btw: she called me stupid. And what were you expecting my tone to be like? My AkhlaQ' helps to slap arrogant and bad mouthed people to the mouth and correct them for the future references

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It appears to me that the traditions of Nawruz such as the table of 7 symbols and what they symbolise have their roots in astrology. Perhaps it's just a superstitious tradition from the pre-Islamic Persia? Whatever it is, it can't be called shirk unless the revellers are in one way or the other worship those symbols or seek help from them in a way that one seeks help from Allah and His intercessors.

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Mansoor Dawanki (LA) ne Maula Moosa Kazim ASWS ko Eide-Nouroz kay din dawat di tou Maula ASWS fermaya:

Mein ne apnay jad Maula Rasoolallah SAWAW ki rivayat kay jaiza liya hey, mujhay is eid kay baray mein koi rivayat nahi mili. Ye eid Iraniyon ki sunnat hey, jis per Islam ne khat-e-batlaan kheencha hey, mein is baat se Allah ki panah maangta hoon kay jis cheez ko Islam ne khatam kiya ho aur mein usay zinda karoon.

Reference: Aaima-e-Ahlul Bayt ASWS, Fikri-o-Siyasi Zindagi

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Sorry but that was a stupid question. Do you even know what 'Shirk' is by definition?

Do you have to relate everything with 'shirk'?

You could say that, during Nawroz some things are practiced that YOU don't like them...But, I did not see any reason for you to use the term shirk.

It is the only two popular words you all understand and use: 1. Shirk 2. Bid'a and none of you even know how to use them and where to use them.

XX is drinking alcohol he is doing Shirk... ZZ is not praying, he is doing bid'a... YY is eating banana, he is a Mushrik... BB is mixing chicken with salad, it is bid'a..

For God's sake how could preparing 7 dry fruits and vegetables that symbolize something etc.. for Nawroz feast is somehow being 'Shirk'? Are you retarded or what?

I have not once used the word Bid'ah.

and who is "none of you", I am one person, asking a question.

you seem to have issues with people disagreeing with your practices, with all due respect I don't know you, so stop being bitter and taking it out on me.

seeking blessings, believing in symbols or objects for good luck etc.. is a form of shirk.

no I am not retarted.

how can they be Shirk? one example, by believing putting grass on the table is going to make you properous is Shirk, because rizk comes from Allah T'ala and not grass on the table.

It's not shirk unless people are worshipping the seven items or associating them with God.

They are not.

You are wrong.

is it not a form of worship, believing they can help you in some way that only Allah azzawajal can?

I was watching a newsreport on Nawruz, and they were saying things like, we buy and wear new clothes so that we have a properous year ahead, if we do x y and z then next year will be a good year...

how can you deny that this is Shirk? what power do new clothes have you affect anything in you year ahead except from the way you look?

but thank you for your reply baradar_jackson.

Yes it is, it will take time to get rid of such nonsense and stick to the divine issues of nowroz.

Bro dont get emotional, the sister is right.

Now if you personally ask any ulama they will tell you the same. However they wont go public about it because to get rid of non islamic traditions like this takes time, and you can´t shuv it in peoples faces. You have to educate them. Preparing fruit or other stuff is not shirk. The shirk is in the fact that people think that if its 7 its correct, and that it has to start with "s" etc. They put mirrios etc. And the worst part is that they put Quran in the middle of all this.

thank you for your reply,

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Nowruz, also spelled Noruz, is the Iranian New Year’s celebration, observed by Zoroastrians, Parsis, and others. The word Nowruz means “new day.” It is celebrated in a number of countries, which include Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, India, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, and Tajikistan. The celebration is thousands of years old, having begun in the reign of the Achaemenids, 550–330 B.C., but although it began as a Persiancelebration, it has been adopted and embellished by Islam.The celebration of Nowruz begins precisely with the vernal equinox, so it is celebrated on or around the twenty-first day of March, the first day of spring. The celebration lasts several weeks. It involves many traditions and rituals.

As in other religious traditions, house cleaning, called Khaneh Tekani, is a preparation activity leading up to the holiday. Sprouting seeds in water, sabze, is a symbolic act that shows how context provides opportunities for growth. Hafsin is the tradition of collecting at least seven items from a special list, each of which begins with the letter s and carries a symbolic meaning . The list includes the sabzementioned above, as well as sombol — hyacinths, sib — the apple, serke vinegar, several fish, and other items.Haji Firuz, troubadours, sing and dance as they parade through the streets with instrumental accompaniment. On the sixth day of the new year is the celebration of the birthday of Zarathustra, the Persianprophet who was the founder of Zoroastrianism.Visits are another Nowruz custom, with younger members of the community calling upon their elders. These visits take place within the first 12 days of the new year. The 13th day, Sizdah Bedar, is both a national holiday and the end of the Nowruz celebration. It is marked by a visit to a natural area, such as a park, to connect with nature and to dispose of the sabze in a natural running body of water. Young people make knots in the grass that has grown from the sprouts to make a wish for being married in the next year.

Part of the celebration of Nowruz involves the preparation of special foods, and the cooking begins several weeks in advance. Bâglâva or baklava is one of the important recipes for Nowruz. Sabzi Polo Mahi, a dish that combines smoked fish, rice, and herbs, is served the day before Nowruz, and Resteh Polo, a dish with rice and noodles, is served on Nowruz.

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I don't know that I'd say current practices in this count as shirk, however the origins of at least some of it would seem to be. The haft seen thing originally was haft sheen, one of which was sharab, wine. The significance of seven runs deep in Zoroastrian belief, particularly with the seven creations and the seven Amesha Spenta. If you're not familiar with the latter, it's referring to the seven "Holy Immortals" that together form sort of a Zoroastrian divine heptad composed of the main god, Ahura Mazda, and six lesser deities (sometimes understood as manifestations of the latter) that together are in a sort of unity ruling over the seven creations:

http://books.google.com/books?id=fHy7AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=zoroastrian+heptad&source=bl&ots=0QfdwObX-z&sig=kLgQcTFoUnLyC7Rgnpr-md6ak-k&hl=en&ei=H0OnS5yEGs-XtgeVxJnlAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=zoroastrian%20heptad&f=false

As to whether this festival has an Islamic element or not, there are differences in the akhbar on this. We have a few that recommend observance of it, saying it corresponds to a number of important sacred events, however there are two things on this. One, the ones I've seen, if I recall right, are all attributed to a single narrator, Mu`alla b. Khunays, who is controversial. Ibn al-Ghadha'iri says:

( 9 ) – 1 – مُعَلّى‏ بنُ خُنَيْس، مولى‏ أبي عَبْداللَّه (ع). كانَ أوّلَ أمْرِهِ مُغَيْرِيّاً، ثمّ دعا إلى مُحَمَّد بن عَبْداللَّه بن الحَسَن، وفي هذه الظِنّة أَخَذَهُ داوود بنُ عليّ فَقَتَلَهُ. والغُلاةُ يُضِيْفُون إليهِ كَثِيراً. ولا أرى‏ الاعْتِمادَ على شي‏ءٍ من حديثِهِ.(19)

1 – Mu`alla b. Khunays, client of Abu `Abdillah (as). The beginning of his affair was variable, then he called towards Muahmmad b. `Abdullah b. al-Hasan, and in this supposition Dawud b. `Ali took him and killed him. The ghulat attached much to him. I do not regard anything of his hadith to be credible.

As to the correspondence of dates, I've checked up on the solar date of Ghadir al-Khumm for that year, and while it might be close, it doesn't seem to entirely match up (around 18th of Dhu'l-Hijja for 10AH is showing as March 15th, give or take)

Also, we do have another narration (though without isnad) in which Imam al-Kazhim (as) states:

إني قد فتشت الاخبار عن جدي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله فلم أجد لهذا العيد خبرا وإنه سنة للفرس ومحاها الاسلام ، ومعاذ الله أن نحيي مامحاه الاسلام

"Verily I have examined the akhbar from my grandfather, the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله, and I did not find a report for this `eid. And verily it is a sunna of the Persian and Islam has erased it. And (I seek the) refuge of Allah that you revivify what Islam has erased."

From what I understand, observance of Nowruz was particularly big under the `Abbasids (so no, this isn't just some Shi`a thing), which would fit the context of the above narration if you read the whole of it.

That said, I should also point out that we do have a principle, based in the hadiths, that when one has a tradition reach oneself that you believe is coming from the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله and that you act upon, you will be rewarded upon it even if it is not authentic

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/preface-of-the-ibadat/desirability-of-acting-on-what-is-narrated-of-reward

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I don't know that I'd say current practices in this count as shirk, however the origins of at least some of it would seem to be.

From what I understand, observance of Nowruz was particularly big under the `Abbasids (so no, this isn't just some Shi`a thing), which would fit the context of the above narration if you read the whole of it.

The Abbasids were Arabs so why were they big on Nawroz? Was it just to please the public and their army?

Ayatullah Mutahari says:

Historical evidence reveals that the `Abbasids, themselves Arab and of Arab stock, were more active in promoting Persian than Iranians. The reason was that they in their fight against the Umayyads, who pursued a policy that favoured Arabs to non-Arabs, adopted an antiArab political line. Because of this policy, the Arab nationalists of today laud the rule of the Umayyads and are more or less critical of the `Abbasids. The `Abbasids, for the sake of struggle against the Umayyads, whose policy was based on Arab nationalism and Arab racism, opposed all elements that supported the Arab domination over non-Arabs and promoted the non-Arab elements with a view to weaken the hold of Arabs on other nationalities. With this aim in view, they promoted Persian and even opposed the Arabic language. Imam Ibrahim, the founder of the `Abbasid dynasty, wrote to Abu Muslim Khurasani: "See that not a single person in Iran speaks Arabic, and whosoever is found speaking Arabic kill him".
http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/Iran/mutual.htm

^ Could this be another reason?

I have never really understood why many Zoroastrian practices are still popular in Iran and I am even more surprised to see that hardly anyone objects to them. Religious muslims generally speak out against cultural practices that have strong origins in other false faiths. I think with Iranians it may partially be down to wanting to maintain strong nationalistic sentiments due to feeling threatened by outsiders. I have heard from some Iranians that the Iranian Ulama try to promote some Islamic values with these practices. E.g. Nawroz is time to meet family, Haft Seen reminds us of the blessings of Allah etc.

As to the correspondence of dates, I've checked up on the solar date of Ghadir al-Khumm for that year, and while it might be close, it doesn't seem to entirely match up (around 18th of Dhu'l-Hijja for 10AH is showing as March 15th, give or take)
More problems with the hadith:
That said, I should also point out that we do have a principle, based in the hadiths, that when one has a tradition reach oneself that you believe is coming from the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله and that you act upon, you will be rewarded upon it even if it is not authentic

Isn’t that if someone actually believes that the tradition is from the Prophet not if they are uncertain about the tradition?

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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believing in symbols or objects for good luck etc.. is a form of shirk.

how can they be Shirk? one example, by believing putting grass on the table is going to make you properous is Shirk, because rizk comes from Allah T'ala and not grass on the table.

is it not a form of worship, believing they can help you in some way that only Allah azzawajal can?

I was watching a newsreport on Nawruz, and they were saying things like, we buy and wear new clothes so that we have a properous year ahead, if we do x y and z then next year will be a good year...

how can you deny that this is Shirk?

Superstition? Yes, but none of it can be labelled as shirk unless the person equates/associates/deifies those traditions, symbols, customs with Allah and his power and hence seeks help and prosperity from those things. So far as I know, no one celebrates Nawruz with this intention. Superstition of this kind, rooted in historical culture as well as in astrology, palmistry, numerology, is found everywhere. There are plenty of Shia [and non-Shia Muslims] who regularly indulge in this regardless of their location. I don't believe in any of those, but that doesn't mean that people who do are committing shirk.

Edited by Marbles
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Mansoor Dawanki (LA) ne Maula Moosa Kazim ASWS ko Eide-Nouroz kay din dawat di tou Maula ASWS fermaya

Mein ne apnay jad Maula Rasoolallah SAWAW ki rivayat kay jaiza liya hey, mujhay is eid kay baray mein koi rivayat nahi mili. Ye eid Iraniyon ki sunnat hey, jis per Islam ne khat-e-batlaan kheencha hey, mein is baat se Allah ki panah maangta hoon kay jis cheez ko Islam ne khatam kiya ho aur mein usay zinda karoon.

Reference: Aaima-e-Ahlul Bayt ASWS, Fikri-o-Siyasi Zindagi

Translation of the emboldened:

"Verily I have examined the akhbar from my grandfather, the Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå, and I did not find a report for this `eid. And verily it is a sunna of the Persian and Islam has erased it. And (I seek the) refuge of Allah that you revivify what Islam has erased."

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GUYS Nowruz is not HARAM and it certainly is not HARAM to celebrate it! No scholar as far as I am aware has said such a thing. Our calender begins on the vernal equinox whereas the Islamic calender is lunar... we just have different calender.

I don't see what the fuss about putting symbols on a table is. I heard somewhere that these symbols e.g the apple and garlic are scientifically proven to be good for you for various reasons which I don't know as I'm not a scientist but nevertheless I don't understand what all this fuss is about.

Ukht said how wearing new clothes won't affect you but what about when you buy new clothes for Eid? I don't see how that can affect you. It's a New Year with a fresh new start and maybe we want to clean our wardrobes and get new clothes lol :) Where's the problem in that? We have a tradition to clean our house and get rid of any unwanted things and get rid of any old clothes we posses and give them to charity or whatever. People take the concept on Nowruz being Haram way out of proportion.

As long as no one is harmed during this process then we will continue to celebrate NOWRUZ every year Insha'Allah. We have the blessing of the Prophet and even Imam Ali congratulated us so does there need to be any further discussions relating this issue?

I got the definition of shirk here: Shirk (ÔÑß) is the Islamic concept of the sin of polytheism specifically, but in a more general way refers to worshiping other than Allah ...

We are not worshiping Allah in other ways so this is not applicable to us. It's only the Second day of Nowruz so whoever celebrates it go and visit your families and take part in whatever you do ( as long as you don't take part in Haram activities lol).

Personally I know that I am not committing Shirk or anything so if anyone can bring concrete evidence proving otherwise then... GOOD LUCK!

Instead of bickering about problems such as: ' Nowruz is Haram' we should do do something useful and use our intellect for more important issues in life.

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Marbles also note, Sister Ukht is from the Ahlul Sunnah.

I see. Thanks for informing. I have edited the post for emphasis. The point still stands.

And just because certain Shias believe in certain superstitions doesn't make that OK.

I have never said or implied that. I believe that such superstitious traditions are nonsense and symbolise lack of faith in the divine. I'd prefer if Shia stopped doing that. I believe the same for astrology and numerology [take a look at Urdu language Imamia or Zanjani Jantary] as well as palmistry. Having said that, even though no superstition is good, yet it doesn't mean that those who believe in stuff of this kind deserve blanket condemnation for committing shirk. For this you have to work on case by case basis.

Edited by Marbles
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GUYS Nowruz is not HARAM and it certainly is not HARAM to celebrate it! No scholar as far as I am aware has said such a thing. Our calender begins on the vernal equinox whereas the Islamic calender is lunar... we just have different calender.

I don't see what the fuss about putting symbols on a table is. I heard somewhere that these symbols e.g the apple and garlic are scientifically proven to be good for you for various reasons which I don't know as I'm not a scientist but nevertheless I don't understand what all this fuss is about.

Ukht said how wearing new clothes won't affect you but what about when you buy new clothes for Eid? I don't see how that can affect you. It's a New Year with a fresh new start and maybe we want to clean our wardrobes and get new clothes lol :) Where's the problem in that? We have a tradition to clean our house and get rid of any unwanted things and get rid of any old clothes we posses and give them to charity or whatever. People take the concept on Nowruz being Haram way out of proportion.

Calm down sis and enjoy your Nawruz. There is nothing wrong with celebrating a cultural festival regardless of its roots as long as it is cut off from its unIslamic roots and corresponding religious practices. As far as I know, Iranians don't celebrate Nawruz today with the same philosophy as Zoroastrians did. There is nothing religious about the festival.

We are just discussing some tradition vis-a-vis Nawruz which can be categorised as superstition. Take that few superstitious traditions away and I think no one would have a problem with Nawruz.

I will highlight the point on tradition having unIslamic roots with an example. There was a fuss in the Subcontinent about saying "Khuda hafiz". [This term is Iranian in origin as you know]. Some puritans claimed that the Farsi word 'Khuda' for God was derived from a somewhat similar sounding name of an ancient Persian deity. Therefore, due to its origins, it is haram and shirk to bid farewell with "Khuda Hafiz". They further argued that "Khuda Hafiz" should be replaced with "Allah Hafiz" since Allah is the correct name for God in Islam. I completely reject even if their arguments are epistemologically sound. The reason? When we say "Khuda Hafiz" [or "Khoda hafez" for Iranians] we refer to Allah as Khuda, the same Allah of Quran; not to some ancient Persian deity from which the word "Khuda" allegedly originated.

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I can see where sister Ukht is coming from.

When Prophet Kidhr (as) asked help from his cell mate, Allah (swt) admonished him. So if people believe in certain superstitions like wearing new clothes will bring you rizq, this would be considered a form of shirk, I think.

Marbles also note, Sister Ukht is from the Ahlul Sunnah. And just because certain Shias believe in certain superstitions doesn't make that OK.

Hasan Sajjad

President

The same incident occured with Prophet Yousef (as) when he asked his cell mate for help and this was not write due to the fact that he's a Prophet and he could only ask help from Allah.Wearing new clothes doesn't bring you rizq and I don't even know if anyone believes in this... There are many superstitions that have entered Shia Islam but celebrating Nowruz is not one of them.

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Calm down sis and enjoy your Nawruz. There is nothing wrong with celebrating a cultural festival regardless of its roots as long as it is cut off from its unIslamic roots and corresponding religious practices. As far as I know, Iranians don't celebrate Nawruz today with the same philosophy as Zoroastrians did. There is nothing religious about the festival.

We are just discussing some tradition vis-a-vis Nawruz which can be categorised as superstition. Take that few superstitious traditions away and I think no one would have a problem with Nawruz.

I will highlight the point on tradition having unIslamic roots with an example. There was a fuss in the Subcontinent about saying "Khuda hafiz". [This term is Iranian in origin as you know]. Some puritans claimed that the Farsi word 'Khuda' for God was derived from a somewhat similar sounding name of an ancient Persian deity. Therefore, due to its origins, it is haram and shirk to bid farewell with "Khuda Hafiz". They further argued that "Khuda Hafiz" should be replaced with "Allah Hafiz" since Allah is the correct name for God in Islam. I completely reject even if their arguments are epistemologically sound. The reason? When we say "Khuda Hafiz" [or "Khoda hafez" for Iranians] we refer to Allah as Khuda, the same Allah of Quran; not to some ancient Persian deity from which the word "Khuda" allegedly originated.

That is so retarded. The word "Allah" itself is derived from one of the old pagan idols from the age of jahiliyah, does that mean we are referring to him by saying "Allah?"

I am always critical of my people but in some ways I can't help but admire them/us. The very fact that we use the word "khoda" is testament to our rejection of pseudo-Islamic pan-Arab modern jahiliyah. Remember the uproar it caused when Ataturk tried to take "Allah" out of common usage in Turkey? Turks didn't resist all the other anti-Islamic reforms that were taking place in their country, but they completely rejected the idea of using a word other than "Allah" to describe God. But we are different. We have a deeper understanding of issues (at least at times).

But that's enough fascism from me today. Time for me to go back to hating my country. :mad:

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Believing in palmistry and certain astrological fortunes is a form of shirk.

Mr. President. I think you have slightly contradicted yourself. I quote:

Sister, that is a very basic definition of shirk. For example, believing that I did something on my own is a form of minor shirk, because I believed I did something on my own, when everything is from Allah (swt). Believing new clothes on nowruz will bring you a year of prosperity would also be minor shirk if people believe it to be independent of Allah (swt).

Show me a Muslim who believes that this would happen outside the realm of the powers, and independent of the will, of Allah.

If there is one, then he indeed is committing a form of shirk. But this is a matter of definition only. This doesn't happen in practice.

Take the example of Wahhabis accusing Shia of shirk for kissing and prostrating on the entrances to the shrines of infallibles. Shia do that out of respect and veneration. Wahhabis jump in and accuse them for worshiping the grave. They would be only right in their claims if Shia did actually prostrated for worship, or associated the buried and his powers with Allah, or deemed them beyond Allah etc. But we know this is not a case.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if certain people did believe that, independent of Allah (Swt).

It would be surprising. I think you are just assuming things which is not good.

And if they don't believe that is independent of Allah (swt), then where in the hadith does it say "wearing new clothes on nowruz will bring you prosperity?" If it doesn't say that, there is no reason to believe it will do so, get it?

Those who believe that wearing new clothes on Nawruz would bring prosperity for the whole year don't believe it because it is in the hadith. They believe it outside of it. This is why it is a superstition.

Again, to establish if a person is committing shirk with his indulgence in such traditions including palmistry and astrological fortunes that you mentioned, you have to look at individual cases.

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My god, it seems people have this discussion every year. Time would be much better spent discussing why Obama decided that we were so special that we deserved a special address, what we have accomplished last year, and what we will accomplish this year. That's what other people do during their new years.

But this discussion has been good. Many anti-Islamic rituals such as chahar shanbeh suri are being discouraged and since Rahbar gave a statement about it, many people have stopped doing this practice.

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Calm down sis and enjoy your Nawruz. There is nothing wrong with celebrating a cultural festival regardless of its roots as long as it is cut off from its unIslamic roots and corresponding religious practices. As far as I know, Iranians don't celebrate Nawruz today with the same philosophy as Zoroastrians did. There is nothing religious about the festival.

We are just discussing some tradition vis-a-vis Nawruz which can be categorised as superstition. Take that few superstitious traditions away and I think no one would have a problem with Nawruz.

I will highlight the point on tradition having unIslamic roots with an example. There was a fuss in the Subcontinent about saying "Khuda hafiz". [This term is Iranian in origin as you know]. Some puritans claimed that the Farsi word 'Khuda' for God was derived from a somewhat similar sounding name of an ancient Persian deity. Therefore, due to its origins, it is haram and shirk to bid farewell with "Khuda Hafiz". They further argued that "Khuda Hafiz" should be replaced with "Allah Hafiz" since Allah is the correct name for God in Islam. I completely reject even if their arguments are epistemologically sound. The reason? When we say "Khuda Hafiz" [or "Khoda hafez" for Iranians] we refer to Allah as Khuda, the same Allah of Quran; not to some ancient Persian deity from which the word "Khuda" allegedly originated.

Don't worry I am calm lol. You guys can continue discussing what you categorize as superstition... I have never heard of ' Khuda Hafez' being claimed Haram according to puritans :o There are loads of different names for Allah but at the end of the name we are all referring to the same God.

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My god, it seems people have this discussion every year. Time would be much better spent discussing why Obama decided that we were so special that we deserved a special address, what we have accomplished last year, and what we will accomplish this year. That's what other people do during their new years.

But this discussion has been good. Many anti-Islamic rituals such as chahar shanbeh suri are being discouraged and since Rahbar gave a statement about it, many people have stopped doing this practice.

Yeah you're right we should have discussions on what we will accomplish this year etc.

Chahar chanbeh suri isn't Haram and I just recently heard a Sheikh on TV saying that it's not Haram. Has anyone other than the Rahbar said that this ritual is Haram? The Rahbar has said many things such as Game Zani being Haram which I disagree with , so I wouldn't really listen to this statement...

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If one believes in palm reading, then he cannot Islamically claim this is from Allah (swt). There are countless hadith telling us to beware of astrology used for fortune telling or w/e. In Nahjul Balagha sermon 78 .

Our scholars have written believing in palm reading and thinks of the like is a form of shirk.

There is daleel for what the Shias do in respect of the holy shrines. There is no daleel favoring palm reading

If they believe wearing new clothes will bring prosperity from Allah (swt), where is the daleel. If they believe it will bring prosperity without Allah (Swt), this is shirk. Now, if your telling me there is an action that we can perform that Allah (swt) will reward is with prosperity, and there is no hadith on the matter, this to me is far fetched.

Hasan Sajjad

President

Mr. President, I raised my concerns about accusing groups of Muslims of shirk for believing in and maintaining certain ideas and practices which are, in principal, not black and white, and too diverse to be broadly categorised as some form of shirk. I think you are simplifying and reducing complexities into easy currency. Anyways, I can't go beyond this point as I don't believe in any of this anyway. It is upon the people who take part in those traditions to explain their true intentions. Allahu 'Aalam.

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That is so retarded. The word "Allah" itself is derived from one of the old pagan idols from the age of jahiliyah, does that mean we are referring to him by saying "Allah?"

I am always critical of my people but in some ways I can't help but admire them/us. The very fact that we use the word "khoda" is testament to our rejection of pseudo-Islamic pan-Arab modern jahiliyah. Remember the uproar it caused when Ataturk tried to take "Allah" out of common usage in Turkey? Turks didn't resist all the other anti-Islamic reforms that were taking place in their country, but they completely rejected the idea of using a word other than "Allah" to describe God. But we are different. We have a deeper understanding of issues (at least at times).

But that's enough fascism from me today. Time for me to go back to hating my country. :mad:

Another reason apart from women and poetry for which I like Iran. :P

Oh and thank you for exporting your Farsi word for God [Khoda] to the Subcontinent. We use this word in Urdu and other local languages. Although I am alarmed at the rate at which this word is disappearing from media, social and intellectual discourse. More and more people have now switched to "Allah hafiz" from "Khuda Hafiz". Nothing wrong in saying "Allah hafiz" of course. But I'm not going to adopt it partly in my opposition to the nutjob Wahhabis and partly for the fearing of loosing "Khuda hafiz" which, as a very grounded person in the tradition of Urdu poetry and literature, comes more naturally to me.

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I think there are some realities some of us have a hard time accepting.

Well, "reality" has a totalising and all-encompassing air to it. So I don't like it thank you very much. I will rather give some space and benefit of the doubt to my coreligionists instead of sending blanket condemnation to them for their alleged shirk. Thank you again.

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hmm.... I have never taken taken part in chahar shanbe suri and I never seem to be aware of the places that it takes place in lol. I can't believe people actually die from this. They should be more careful as anything we do in our lives can cause harm so this ritual shouldn't be over ruled just because people die...

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^

“And most of them do not believe in Allah without associating others (with Him).”

(Surah Yūsuf 12:106)

Explaining this verse, Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.) informed that one form of Shirk is,

“Like the saying of someone that if so and so had not been there I would have been destroyed. If so and so had not been there I would have got that thing. In the same way is to say that if so and so had not been there my children would have perished.”

(Bihār al-Anwār)

I suggest you read chapter 3 of Greater Sins. http://www.al-islam.org/greater_sins_complete/

There is more reason as to why it is haraam. MANY maraja have already said this. Lets accept their rulings.

Hasan Sajjad

President

Can you please inform me which Marjas say this because I'm really intrigued to know what my Marja says...

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