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3ashiqat-Al-Batoul

You All Know The Thread By Tlady

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I gave up reading this thread before it crossed into page 2. But I couldn't miss Mahdaviat and the post of Batool above his.

Is there a nursery rhyme that titles "black and white"? I wasn't taught if there is one.

If any thread that needs to be locked and deported to the trashpit, it is this.

Edited by Marbles

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My ONLY issue is that people offered advice to tlady without informing her of her greatest problem, committing adultery. This silence/indifference to adultery is a clear sign of support/acceptance of this vile sin. So whether you agree with Sister Batoul's approach or not, the majority of the posters still supported her adultery because they decided NOT to do nahi and amr. Then to make it worse the same people ridiculed sister Batoul for doing her duty as a Muslim. That and only that is my biggest problem. And unfortunately, this isn't the first time that this has happened on this forum. Islamic values have been lost.

The laws of Islam are clear. Now it is your choice to follow them or to reject them. But when you decide to reject them, don't portray your man made laws as an Islamic perspective.

Imam Baqir (as):

“Whoever commits Fornication with a Muslim, Jew, Christian or Magian woman, whether she is a slave or a free woman; and dies without repenting of his sin, then the Almighty Allah opens Three hundred doors of punishment in his grave. From each door many snakes, scorpions and pythons emerge from the fire and burn and torment him till the Day of Qiyāma.”

Imam Jafar (as):

“There are Three types of people with whom Allah will not even speak on the day of Qiyāma. There is a terrible punishment for them. One of these Three group will be of the women who inspite of having husbands commit adultery with others.”

Hasan Sajjad

President

Good post as always bro, and like always, you are one of the few posters that actually cites Islamic sayings and traditions to back up your posts, while most others put nothing more than their own opinions backed up by their moral relativism and political correctness.

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Imam Jafar (as):

“There are Three types of people with whom Allah will not even speak on the day of Qiyāma. There is a terrible punishment for them. One of these Three group will be of the women who inspite of having husbands commit adultery with others.”

Hasan Sajjad

President

(salam)

brother, can you post the rest of this hadith? i'm curious to know what the other 2 groups of people are.

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Photi: What you said above is nonsense.

President

how is it nonsense?  are you telling me not to question things?  we don't confess, and we are taught to cover our sins.  none other than Sayyid Abbas in Seattle has taught me that.  to me the hadith that the Sister Ashiqat related contradicted these teachings.  somewhere then the contradiction needs to be reconciled, and to say it is nonsense for me to inquire about that is abusing your position as President.

so either the hadith is not valid, or there is no contradiction (if not, could you please explain), or there is a caveat that is unknown to me.  i think i refrained from stating any absolutes and left my side wide open for someone to show me where  my thinking is flawed if it is flawed.  telling me it is nonsense does not accomplish that.    

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Now, before i show you what i replied to her, i want to make it clear that i did not state anybody is going to hell, you can go back and check my post, i specifically used the phrase "most likely" because i cannot say for sure anybody is going to hell, HOWEVER, based on ahadith and the quran, an adulterous who dies as such would go to hell.

Now here is my response:

------

Honey you obviously don't know what adultery means. I advise you look up some ahadith about it. If you came to the imams and told them that you are cheating on your husband they wouldn't speak to you in words like i did, they would order that you be stoned. That is the shariah punishment for adultery. You obviously have a distorted view of what is islamically acceptable and how big your sin is. tc

Neither do you, as you are accusing this women of adultery as she has had a male friend for a number of years. Please provide proof she had slept with this man!!. And along with Islamic law, please provide four witnesses seeing the same thing ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!! and who are reliable and trustworthy, if you cannot do this, then apologise for making accusations against this woman for which you have no Islamic proof.

I wonder what the Sharia law punishment is for making false accusations that cannot be backed up by evidence and witnesses?

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Oh my God. Are you serious???? Wow :huh: So im gossiping because you feel like the title of the thread sounds like gossip. Very nice way of judging things.

OMG OMG! No0o that's not what I was saying, omg did it really sound like that? OMG OMG!

Yea well, judging from peoples replies to her and replies in this thread, it doesn't look like Shia don't accept adultery, it actually looks like they, and you, are very sympathetic to people who make the same "mistake" over and over again for FOUR YEARS and have no intention of stopping, and CRY if somebody tells them that is the solution. But what do i know, im just a gossiper aren't i? :rolleyes:

YaAah, I am exactly...that's soo true! You're soo000oooo right! OMG OMG!

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I'm not mocking you... don't have energy for that. You should see me mocking...!

On a serious note: You feel okay and you're making a thread, friday afternoon or whatever...drinking some tea...yadi yada.. Okay fine. But please think further (the OP eg.).

And NO you're not the only one who feels strongly about the issues exposed in the thread by tlady, please understand that once and for all.

Apologize for the sarcastic tone, I mean it as a sister to another sister (I was only trying to make a point).

Withdrawing from this with *salaam* :angel:

/Ws

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I don't know how you people who say sis Batoul was being "rude" expect her to admonish her, and make her aware of the severity of her sin in a more polite way. She wasn't sarcastic, she didn't call her names, what was so rude?

And I haven't seen Tlady say she's repented anywhere or that she didn't have a physical relationship with the other man (correct me if I overlooked it).

What's wrong with you people? Why do you attack a muslimah for doing her religious duty, and probably the biggest favour to Tlady (if she is real) on the thread, the best thing for her is to think of her afterlife, if you people cared about her you'd help her set her priorities right.

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-Telling her she's going to hell=a little harsh

-Have you considered that just maybe tlady responded the way she did because she felt like she was put on the defensive?

-That hadith involved totally different circumstances, and the Prophet (SAW) was able to respond appropriately to that particular situation. Remember: the Prophet knows a little more than the rest of us so he is allowed to respond that way.

Whomever you are, I thank you. I never said I was right- EVER!!! Even in my original posts I said I would cry from guilt and that I never, never meant to hurt anyone nor do I want to hurt my husband!! I did not come here for sympathy, just for support and some guidance. I originally wanted a dua to help me love my husband again, as a wife!!! All these hadiths are true, but Allah knows the little good I may have done as well. I am NOT trying to legitimize my mistakes, but sometimes knowing that another can understand helps. Also, how does this Batoul know what good Im trying to do in my situation???

She says I will go to hell if I were to die today and thinks she did Amr bil Mahroof and Nahi Anir Munkar??? I never asked anyone to say, "oh yes Tlady you are doing just fine", but dua would help!!! This new topic forum does sound very juvenile. I would never have done that to her!! It could have stayed between the two of us, but for some reason wanted to expose me even more.

Anyway, I will IA find my way since I am taking steps in the right decision. Thank you again for being human because I swear it helps to have some support!!! May Allah Bless you and one day maybe forgive me...

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Whomever you are, I thank you. I never said I was right- EVER!!! Even in my original posts I said I would cry from guilt and that I never, never meant to hurt anyone nor do I want to hurt my husband!! I did not come here for sympathy, just for support and some guidance. I originally wanted a dua to help me love my husband again, as a wife!!! All these hadiths are true, but Allah knows the little good I may have done as well. I am NOT trying to legitimize my mistakes, but sometimes knowing that another can understand helps. Also, how does this Batoul know what good Im trying to do in my situation???

She says I will go to hell if I were to die today and thinks she did Amr bil Mahroof and Nahi Anir Munkar??? I never asked anyone to say, "oh yes Tlady you are doing just fine", but dua would help!!! This new topic forum does sound very juvenile. I would never have done that to her!! It could have stayed between the two of us, but for some reason wanted to expose me even more.

Anyway, I will IA find my way since I am taking steps in the right decision. Thank you again for being human because I swear it helps to have some support!!! May Allah Bless you and one day maybe forgive me...

I just spoke to someone from our community anonymously about some of these presumptuous hadiths. According to him, many hadiths were falsified during the time of the first three calipha. He also said that no matter how great a sin, the Noble family would bring them onto the right path. He also said that NO ONE can ever judge anyone. Even the enemies of Karbala, we never " curse" Yazeed, for example, but we say that Allah please do not grant them mercy (not exact words).

Also, I dont think I need to go to each person who has posted and tell him or her what I am doing day to day or whether I have made certain decisions.

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I originally wanted a dua to help me love my husband again, as a wife!!! All these hadiths are true, but Allah knows the little good I may have done as well. I am NOT trying to legitimize my mistakes, but sometimes knowing that another can understand helps. Also, how does this Batoul know what good Im trying to do in my situation???

The problem is that a word search on the original thread for 'dua' does not turn up anything.

Secondly nowhere in this whole farrago does it seem as if you say that you have ended the relationship with this other man. If you have apologies. All we have heard is that you feel guilty about it, but that's all. As Sis Butool said in her initial post, that second relationship is for you to end and then move on in terms of your relationship with your husband. I don't know how you expect the duas to work if you have both relationships happening together.

You also say in the other thread:

This topic just threatens them because it seemed as if they lost control..like so many mullahs...yet others, not me, wanted this topic to continue.....how so many hide behind the curtain of religion......

You were the OP, it has always been your call as to whether the topic should be moved to say the Sisters board, or indeed whether it should be deleted entirely. Given the sensitive and personal nature of the thread the latter is always an option. Instead you have used your personal story and the reaction to it, as a means of attacking a particular (shall we say 'conservative') viewpoint.

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I posted this in the original thread then realised this thread would be more appropriate:

It's unfortunate that people are confusing the effect (adultery) with the cause (domestic issues). If you solve the the cause of the problem, the core issues, being the abusive relationship and the lack of love with the husband, the effect, which has manifested itself as adultery, will automatically vanish. If the cause is not solved, the effect is certain to manifest itself again after some time, and maybe into something even greater.

A common example which quite adeptly illustrates this point is given by the 'Ulama of 'aqhlaq of a tree (the cause) and chirping birds (the effect). If you want to stop birds from landing on a tree and chirping away, you can cut off the branches, but after some time the branches will grow and the birds will come back and be a nuisance again. Instead, what you do is uproot the tree from its core,and remove it altogether, so there is no chance of the birds returning.

And this is a common issue many youth face, who, overflowing with hormones and passion (the cause), begin to commit sins (the effect). If the cause was dealt with then there would be no masturbating, fornication or any other sin which is manifested from this unfulfilled desire, hence one of the reasons why youth marriage is greatly emphasised by the A'imma [as]. And by this we see that the Imams would deal with things from the core issue, change the people from within, then the effects, the sins, would fall away in an instance.

And no, I am not justifying her actions, they are indeed filthy, however all I am saying is that if she is to repent out of compulsion, and make a pledge to Allah and herself to refrain from this action, then when she is with her husband and she is faced once again with her domestic issues and her female innate desire for love and affection is unfulfilled she will run back to that very action she told herself not to commit, because deep down nothing has changed and the effect, the sin, will resurface again!

Yes, will power and self control is needed undoubtedly, but this woman is on the verge of emotional implosion, in an extreme circumstance that has left her in a wreck and fragile. A mother, beaten by her own husband, outcast by family, denied affection and love. We need to admonish her with wisdom, not like one-dimensional robots. Only someone with strong and immense self control can stop nature from taking its predetermined route, and this is something even Prophet Yusuf prayed for when approached by the women of the town, when he asked Allah to put him in prison away from their plans.

Islam is a religion which promotes understanding, compassion, comprehensiveness, wisdom, forbearance, all traits which Allah has adorned Himself with, and these are traits which we see underline the lives of the A'imma [as], so why is it that these are almost non-existant in our own actions?

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Some points here I thought to make.

As to the consequences of adultery/fornication in the Hereafter, the Holy Quran is quite clear:

æóÇáøóÐöíäó áóÇ íóÏúÚõæäó ãóÚó Çááøóåö ÅöáóåðÇ ÂÎóÑó æóáóÇ íóÞúÊõáõæäó ÇáäøóÝúÓó ÇáøóÊöí ÍóÑøóãó Çááøóåõ ÅöáøóÇ ÈöÇáúÍóÞøö æóáóÇ íóÒúäõæäó æóãóä íóÝúÚóáú Ðóáößó íóáúÞó ÃóËóÇãðÇ {68}

íõÖóÇÚóÝú áóåõ ÇáúÚóÐóÇÈõ íóæúãó ÇáúÞöíóÇãóÉö æóíóÎúáõÏú Ýöíåö ãõåóÇäðÇ {69}

ÅöáøóÇ ãóä ÊóÇÈó æóÂãóäó æóÚóãöáó ÚóãóáðÇ ÕóÇáöÍðÇ ÝóÃõæúáóÆößó íõÈóÏøöáõ Çááøóåõ ÓóíøöÆóÇÊöåöãú ÍóÓóäóÇÊò æóßóÇäó Çááøóåõ ÛóÝõæÑðÇ ÑøóÍöíãðÇ {70

who call not upon another god with Allah, nor slay the soul Allah has forbidden except by right, neither fornicate, for whosoever does that shall meet the price

of sin-doubled shall be the chastisement for him on the Resurrection Day, and he shall dwell therein humbled,

save him who repents, and believes, and does righteous work -- those, Allah will change their evil deeds into good deeds, for Allah is ever All-forgiving, All-compassionate; (25:68-70)

This is clear and unambiguous. It is entirely appropriate for someone to get terrified for the consequences of doing such an act, listed along with murder and calling upon another god, and to be warned of such in clear terms by fellow believers who would be remiss in their duty if they were to make each other feel comfortable about having committed them.

æóÇáúãõÄúãöäõæäó æóÇáúãõÄúãöäóÇÊõ ÈóÚúÖõåõãú ÃóæúáöíóÇÁ ÈóÚúÖò íóÃúãõÑõæäó ÈöÇáúãóÚúÑõæÝö æóíóäúåóæúäó Úóäö ÇáúãõäßóÑö æóíõÞöíãõæäó ÇáÕøóáÇóÉó æóíõÄúÊõæäó ÇáÒøóßóÇÉó æóíõØöíÚõæäó Çááøåó æóÑóÓõæáóåõ ÃõæúáóÜÆößó ÓóíóÑúÍóãõåõãõ Çááøåõ Åöäøó Çááøåó ÚóÒöíÒñ Íóßöíãñ {71

And the believers, the men and the women, are awliya one of the other; they bid to honour, and forbid dishonour; they perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and they obey Allah and His Messenger. Those -- upon them Allah will have mercy; Allah is All-mighty, All-wise. (9:71)

áõÚöäó ÇáøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇú ãöä Èóäöí ÅöÓúÑóÇÆöíáó Úóáóì áöÓóÇäö ÏóÇæõæÏó æóÚöíÓóì ÇÈúäö ãóÑúíóãó Ðóáößó ÈöãóÇ ÚóÕóæÇ æøóßóÇäõæÇú íóÚúÊóÏõæäó {78}

ßóÇäõæÇú áÇó íóÊóäóÇåóæúäó Úóä ãøõäßóÑò ÝóÚóáõæåõ áóÈöÆúÓó ãóÇ ßóÇäõæÇú íóÝúÚóáõæäó {79

Cursed were the unbelievers of the Children of Israel by the tongue of David, and Jesus, Mary's son; that, for their rebelling and their transgression.

They forbade not one another any dishonour that they committed; surely evil were the things they did. (5:78-79)

That said, the end of the first quote above also makes clear the door of repentance. If the committer of this sin repents, believes and does good work, their evil acts are changed in good ones by the grace and mercy of Allah. So, someone who has brought themselves into this situation should feel fear and remorse at what they have done and the heavy consequences it bears, but they should also not lose hope in Allah’s mercy. However, key to repentance is stopping what one has done.

On a legal note though, proving zina in Islamic law established via _two_ methods. One is the four just male witnesses, but the other is that the individual confesses it themselves four times, so one should not think it is exclusively the first method. And of course, whether one is caught in the act or not in this world, there’s no hiding from Allah who sees all of our acts whether open or hidden.

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I posted this in the original thread then realised this thread would be more appropriate:

Me too.

Good post Sadiq. This is what I and a couple other posters are trying to say all along but somehow it appears to some as legitimising or rationalising the sinful behaviour of the OP. Anyways...

To all:

There is a propensity among a few to look down upon imperfect sinners with disgust and resentment. If you dig this mindset deep, such robotic and damning reactions to sins and the sinners has its roots not only in the disappointment that results of knowing that a coreligionist of ours has in fact sinned and sinned majorly, but elsewhere. Dig it further and you will have some complaining about cheating/adulterous behaviour as a function of fading social values of the society, which, in turn, the mindset goes, is forced upon us by the cultural imperialism of the West. So in the last analysis, if a Muslim sins and sins so badly, it must be that they were too exposed to "non-conservative" lifestyle especially if they happen to live in the West. So, the real actualities that made the OP to falter morally aren't as significant [and hence overlooked] than her supposedly unIslamic interaction with other males, which, in turn, led her to the sin of cheating and possibly adultery.

This mindset, which derives its legitimacy from the absolutely absolute notions of sin and virtue, right or wrong, good or bad, black and white and etc is the mild version of the ubiquitous intolerance to 'the others', to 'the different' - regardless of whether their actions are undoubtedly unIslamic or not - has become the hallmark of Muslim societies in the East.

Just yesterday a student was killed in Peshawar university for playing music in his hostel room. What happened that a group of the goons of Islami Jamiat Tulaba [islamic Students Organisation] were passing by the room and their alarms began to flash red at the sound of the 'Satanic' music being played in the room. They told the boy, to put it mildly, that "if he died today, while listening and enjoying to music, he is most probably going to hell". The argument turned into a fight. The boy was beaten to death by the "Islamic" goons.

Some may find my example an isolated and extreme case of intolerance. Yes, it in fact is an extreme case. But its theoretical development came from the same mindset which has been exhibited by some members in this thread and its counterpart in the same subforum.

Edited by Marbles

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(bismillah)

(salam)

From her post one can gather she is a non-muslim. Keeping that in mind, only then one should advise her.

The husband and wife should turn over a new leaf and start all over again.

Love arises after respect. Once they learn to respect each other, start caring for each other, love will naturally follow.

As her husband has started behaving himself, she should try to meet him half-way.

What is happiness after all? When you feel a sense of achievment, a feeling of a job well done, you feel satisfied /happy.

She has been suffering no doubt, and now she has to see that her sons/daughters do not pick up negative traits, this can be done by setting herself as an example. If she succeeds in bringing up decent children, that is a very noble and distinguished achievement in itself, in this day and world. In fact, this is the biggest career achievement that you leave behind sons and daughters who prove to be an asset to their family, community, and humanity as a whole.

She is right now nearing to reap the rewards of her patience, if she makes up her mind from the depth of her heart to ask forgiveness, from god and implore god's help with a firm determination not to be led astray by temptations (which we are all subject to, day in and day out) anymore she will attain marital bliss without fail. INSHALLAH.

In Islam, Allah the Almighty has shown us the way, we have to submit to His Will; after all Islam means submission to the Will of God. He has forbidden usury, gambling, adultery, backbiting, etc. in no uncertain terms. We have our dos and don'ts. Divine Punishment awaits any of us if (god forbid) we die without repentance. Yes. repentance is the key to get back to god. He is Merciful as well as the Punisher. but always His Mercy precedes His Punishment

May Allah guide us all till the end of our lives.

Ali

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And as for the Prophet SAW being 1000x more gentle, there is a hadith (which i can get later for you all, as im stating it now from memory, its not on my computer but im 100% sue it exists, it was said in a daris) where a man comes to the prophet and tells him he is a grave worker and has committed a sin that is so huge that with all of Allah's forgiveness he could not imagine that Allah swt would forgive him for it. The prophet SAW said, you think Allah swt with (insert trait here) would not forgive you for this sin? So the man replies, even with that trait my sin is too big to be forgiven. The prophet SAW does this several more times, inserting different traits of Allah swt in each question, and each time the man replies he does not think Allah swt would forgive him. Then the prophet asks, what is this sin that you have committed? The grave worker said he was working in the grave when people brought a new dead body to be buried, of a female, who was very attractive. When he saw her he became very moved by her good looks and the Shaitan began to play with his head to make him sleep with her. So after trying to avoid it for a bit, he gave in and had sexual intercourse with her dead body.

Now if i asked you, you would tell me after hearing this the Prophet SAW would tell this man, it's okay, you made a mistake, go home and repent and inshallah Allah swt will forgive you. However, this is not what the Prophet SAW said to him. He said:

Get away from me oh enemy of God for i fear your evil around me.

Yes, this Hadith is authentic as far as I know, but it still does not justify the reaction from many to 'tlady'. First of all the man in this Hadith had in fact made a business for himself from stealing the kaffan (shroud) of the dead, giving us an insight as to what depths of evil this man had stooped to. Anyone with an iota of faith wouldn't even dream of doing such a horrid thing. Secondly, his sin of copulating with the dead corpse, was a direct result of his first sin of stealing from the dead, and once again, this is a sin which even a heart filled with ignorance would hesitate to commit! In essence, this repulsive act was just the icing on the cake of his sinning portfolio, so to speak. Once you understand that this man was in fact a 'serial' sinner whose soul had reached such an abyss that he wilfully slept with a dead corpse, then you will see why the Prophet treated him in such a harsh and firm manner. On top of this, the person in the Hadith was a male, and males generally can take stricter and harsher admonishments, where as women are emotionally vulnerable and susceptable, hence why in Islam they cannot become leaders and according to certain views, even judges.

The problem you are having is that you are approaching this issue from one dimension, looking at one instance and perspective and imagining the Prophet would react in the same manner all the time, what is known as 'generalising' or 'painting everyone with the same brush' when in fact the circumstances and the factors involved vary in each circumstance. We are not speaking about a prostitute who brags about how many men she has slept with, nor about a person who has a track record of commiting horrid crimes, we are speaking of a desperate mother, neglected by her husband and estranged from her family. I am not saying we should be sympathetic to her and heap praise on her, no, what I am saying is that we need to consider the circumstances behind why she was led to such an action before we pass our judgement.

People tend to forget that, although Allah swt is Arham al Ra7imen, he is also al Hasib and al muntaqim,

"O He whose mercy supercedes His wrath" - Du'a Jawshan Kabeer

although the Ahlulbayte as.gif are amazing kind people, they would not shy away from implementing Allah swt's shariah punishments. If a thief came to them they would not tell them go repent, they would cut off their hand. The Prophet SAW has been known to say " I swear by Allah that if my daughter Fatima as.gif were to steal i would not hesitate to cut off her hand."

If the thief was poverty stricken, an orphan, had no relatives to care for him, had no one to turn to for help, then I don't think they would implement Shari'a and cut off his hands, rather they [as] would see to it that the thief had the provisions needed to prevent him from doing such actions again.

Yes, 'tlady' needs to repent, but unless the original condition does not change the repentance will be of no benefit. Like the thief, she will be urged back to her sin for temporary relief.

The Prophet and the A'imma [as] had insight (baseera) whenever they dealt with someone, they would seek to develop a person and bring to them benefit with their admonishment, teach them a lesson, elevate their soul and cement a relationship with Allah, and unless we aim to do the same, but to our own finite and limited capacity, we will have turned Shar'ia from a blessing to a curse, just like we see in Somalia and other Wahabi infested territories.

Once you understand this, you can understand life better.

Ditto.

Edited by Sadiq M...

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Batoul, you shouldnt have opened this thread - sister, thats just not nice.

Her replies to you obviously show her anger and dissapointment in your answer - thats between you two - not nice to post that up here. Can everyone stop judging tlady and questioning whether or not she committed adultery - please for Allah's sake. just stop it. It is a disgusting topic to be debating on. if you cant address the ladies issues then don't - but Batoul your this action would inevitably deter even more people to come here. My dear, please don't think i'm siding tlday - i don't know her and i don't know you - but we are sisters at the end of the day and if you can't help don't make matters worse.

I will say once again - Allah is the judge of everyone's actions - quit this personal attack and close this thread please.

Note to admin: THIS is exactly what you guys should be avoiding - personal attacks - not taking sides. As difficult as it is - you should be neutral - personal opinions aside. right now in my eyes you're provoking both these sisters - the issue is no longer being addressed and instead it's turned nasty. Be wise - close this thread.

(sorry batoul, no offence)

Ali Ali

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^ No problem, I respect everybody's opinion, but I have not attacked anybody, i have merely warned, advised, and showed somebody's hostility toward me for doing the former. If she didn't want her words to me to be shown to people she shouldn't have written them on my wall for everybody to see anyway.

Since 2 others have done this, i will as well, i posted this in the other thread, but i think the people in this one need to see it too:

Actually the 4 witness rule only applies if somebody wants to accuse somebody else of committing adultery. If somebody comes and admits to it, that is all that is needed for the Islamic punishment to be implemented, and thus when I say if she came to the Imams and told them she was committing adultery, she would be stoned it's because it is wajib on them to implement Islamic sharia. And no I didn't mean that I am more merciful than the imams, I was trying to outline that my words that she finds so harsh are nothing in comparison to what the Imams that she thinks would be so embracing and forgiving would be. Why? Because I am not allowed to implement Islamic Sharia even if i wanted to, so i can merely use words of warning, whereas the imams have an obligation to do the former.

As for going to hell, Islam states if one dies while they are at the time in an adulterous relationship then they are going to hell. Its clear cut, very straight forward.

So if my stating the facts of Islam makes her feel "hopeless" why didn't she just read what I actually said, which was in itself a plan to get out of her situation and thus, there was hope.

I'm sorry you guys, I do understand your points about kindness and walking her through it, etc, but i simply can't agree in this situation, because if she doesn't understand the hugeness of her sin she wont ever stop committing it. Feeling guilty obviously isn't enough for her, since she has carried on with the relationship for 4 years with her guilt. What makes anybody think if her marriage gets back on track, the moment something else goes wrong she isn't going to go back into this type of relationship, most likely with the same guy she is with now?

She might feel guilty about it, but guilt obviously isn't what she needs. She needs fear of Allah swt. She needs to be reminded what it means to be committing adultery, what implications, something to get her to stop doing it and not go back to it, even before her marriage problems are over. She needs to understand that this sin is so huge if she died with it she would go hell and if shariah punishment were to be implemented she would be stoned for it. It isn't something to feel guilty over, like lying, but something to repent for and get out of the situation of immediately.

We won't agree about this, as usual :P but I hope you can at least somewhat understand my point of view, because I do understand yours.

Wasalam.

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^ No problem, I respect everybody's opinion, but I have not attacked anybody, i have merely warned, advised, and showed somebody's hostility toward me for doing the former. If she didn't want her words to me to be shown to people she shouldn't have written them on my wall for everybody to see anyway.

Since 2 others have done this, i will as well, i posted this in the other thread, but i think the people in this one need to see it too:

Actually the 4 witness rule only applies if somebody wants to accuse somebody else of committing adultery. If somebody comes and admits to it, that is all that is needed for the Islamic punishment to be implemented, and thus when I say if she came to the Imams and told them she was committing adultery, she would be stoned it's because it is wajib on them to implement Islamic sharia. And no I didn't mean that I am more merciful than the imams, I was trying to outline that my words that she finds so harsh are nothing in comparison to what the Imams that she thinks would be so embracing and forgiving would be. Why? Because I am not allowed to implement Islamic Sharia even if i wanted to, so i can merely use words of warning, whereas the imams have an obligation to do the former.

As for going to hell, Islam states if one dies while they are at the time in an adulterous relationship then they are going to hell. Its clear cut, very straight forward.

So if my stating the facts of Islam makes her feel "hopeless" why didn't she just read what I actually said, which was in itself a plan to get out of her situation and thus, there was hope.

I'm sorry you guys, I do understand your points about kindness and walking her through it, etc, but i simply can't agree in this situation, because if she doesn't understand the hugeness of her sin she wont ever stop committing it. Feeling guilty obviously isn't enough for her, since she has carried on with the relationship for 4 years with her guilt. What makes anybody think if her marriage gets back on track, the moment something else goes wrong she isn't going to go back into this type of relationship, most likely with the same guy she is with now?

She might feel guilty about it, but guilt obviously isn't what she needs. She needs fear of Allah swt. She needs to be reminded what it means to be committing adultery, what implications, something to get her to stop doing it and not go back to it, even before her marriage problems are over. She needs to understand that this sin is so huge if she died with it she would go hell and if shariah punishment were to be implemented she would be stoned for it. It isn't something to feel guilty over, like lying, but something to repent for and get out of the situation of immediately.

We won't agree about this, as usual :P but I hope you can at least somewhat understand my point of view, because I do understand yours.

Wasalam.

Batoul do you want to look like the villain here - becos your posts arent doing you any favours. Everyone knows the law on adultery stop repeating yourself over n over again. What are you trying to prove? tlady has committed sin - adultery or not - another man whilst married is enough to equal sin. She knows that, we know that now call it a day and quit this. Your dictating too much and believe me although i respect your opinions it's becoming silly now especially by opening such a thread - it shows the belittleness in you. You seem like a well head-screwed on girl so please don't get yourself tied up here. This is becoming really repetitive and stupid. I didnt want to come across like this hence my apology earlier and once again I apologise but incase you didnt realise there's quite a few people that are replying to you indirectly and saying what I have just said! Be the better one and just leave this discussion because its not going to get you or tlday anywhere but it's certainly entertainment for others who are probably laughing at you both.

I hope tlday is reading this aswell - sister - you've been given the advice you need plenty of times - no need to get in a war of words - how about you act upon whats been advised and leave the rest to Allah. Batoul only advised you as a sister initially and both your understandings have blown out of proportion. You also should just let this matter rest and call it truce. Don't be offended by Batouls, or even my words - deep down we only have your best interests at heart and we clearly understand you have been through alot. I wish you all the very best and hope maula guides you on the right path and helps you in your mission.

Everyone else (including the Admins): how about you guys suggest the same to the sisters and stop encouraging further friction between them.

PEACE ........(please)

Duas

and sorry again for offending anyone!

:)

Edited by MBS110

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^ You are a sweet sister and it is very good of you to try to encourage reconciliation, but belittling adultery in order to reach that goal is not the correct path to be on. You may not think you are, but your first paragraph is doing exactly that, and that is precisely what I have been having a problem with.

Anyway again, thanks for your advice, it was sweet, but I think this issue is way bigger than "be nice" :P

Salam.

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No sister - again you've misunderstood - i'm not belitteling the 'sin' and neither does my first paragraph mention anything along those lines (tauba astagfar). I simply said 'let go' cos you've wondered off the original issue. Obviously we are all against the sin, but sister did you pick up on the fact that this women was beaten severely for 12 years, mentally tortured by her inlaws - you should have (to be fair) outlined and addressed the punishment for that too...it all goes back to the same story "it's ok for the men to do as they please, but if the woman were to do that then consider her an outcast" - c'mon sis, i'm sure even you agree that's unfair - don't you? However, in your defence - it doesnt justify committing sin whether that be adultery or murder, whatever the case may be.

Your reply again shows that you are a wise and sensible girl but huni it's instigating further debate again - THAT IS EXACTLY what i am saying not to do...seriously sis - consider what i have said with an open mind, just leave it in the hands of Allah and don't work your own self about it. Duas.x.

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She still has to openly tell her husband she has cheated on him (if their marriage will have any sort of success). He too has to confess what he did wrong.

Otherwise they have nothing, just endless barriers between them forever.

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She still has to openly tell her husband she has cheated on him (if their marriage will have any sort of success). He too has to confess what he did wrong.

Otherwise they have nothing, just endless barriers between them forever.

Given his past history of violence, is this really necessary?

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She still has to openly tell her husband she has cheated on him (if their marriage will have any sort of success). He too has to confess what he did wrong.

Otherwise they have nothing, just endless barriers between them forever.

The only thing her confession would achieve is to make it more difficult for her. If she wants the marriage to have any chance of success, the cheating episode must not be revealed to the husband and totally forgotten about.

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The only thing her confession would achieve is to make it more difficult for her. If she wants the marriage to have any chance of success, the cheating episode must not be revealed to the husband and totally forgotten about.

i agree here.  i could never get over it, most men (and i assume women) couldn't.   what will it accomplish besides more heartache and guaranteeing the marriage will not work?  i would go so far as to say it would be an act of aggression to tell him.  

caveat:  if my wife was no good and was going to repeat this behavior over and over, of course i would hope Allah exposes her.  but if it were a one time accident and she repented and was sincere,  then her affair is with Allah and i think that is good enough.  

caveat to the caveat:  by no means do i think even one instance of zina is acceptable or something to take lightly.  i am just trying to be pragmatic with an understanding of human weakness and our propensity towards mistakes as well as our inability to 'unremember' something like this. 

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She still has to openly tell her husband she has cheated on him (if their marriage will have any sort of success). He too has to confess what he did wrong.

Otherwise they have nothing, just endless barriers between them forever.

(salam)

God no! Since the husband is using the wife as a punching bag, I don't think this is a good idea.

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(salam)

God no! Since the husband is using the wife as a punching bag, I don't think this is a good idea.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Yes, and besides, it may well prove to be the final nail in the coffin so far as her life with her husband is concerned.

Best is to forget it ever happened pray to god and move on.

va menallah towfiq

ali

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Well if you're a sincere person and want your other half to be your other half, you would break down at some point in the future to let it out.

Otherwise, you can go on having an islamic marriage based on keeping things hidden in each other's hearts, and soon you'll be as good as strangers.

Only a person with a heart clouded by sins could go on forever living in a lie.

(salam)

God no! Since the husband is using the wife as a punching bag, I don't think this is a good idea.

Well, then why would she start a topic about not being sexually attracted to her husband (after so many years)?

The one who repents and decides to work on the marriage for Allah's sake doesn't exactly throw away every thing solely for that reason. Love isn't sex.

The OP needs to sort out what she wants in life and the hereafter.

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No way - what kind of advice is that - a women who was abused after so many years is now recovering from that and her own sins and your asking her to make her life even more unbearable? You're forgetting that she's a woman - its ok for a guy to do whatever and get away with it and EXPECT his wife to forgive - but if tables turn then i can almost swear by lord that her husband won't even divorce her he'll torture her silly for the rest of her days.

Before marriage it is highly recommended not to disclose any past relationships/sins to your future spouse incase it hinders a good future - how can you possibly confess something as grave as this whilst being married!????

tlady I've said this before and say it again - do tauba, get rid of this 'other guy' which i suppose u may already have done and work towards your marriage - and by no-way in hell do you tell your husband anything. All that rubbish about him being your other half n blah blah and honesty is best policy - giv me a break - it does not work in our culture!!!

Get over it - his sin and your sin - put it behind you and make a new start - work towards your marriage. You're lucky you've become friends but be careful - he may even be over friendly to get info out of you - mark my words "YOU DO NOT SAY ANYTHING" the rest Allah knows best.

Ali Waris

Edited by MBS110

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