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[Closed/Review]I Am Not Sexually Attracted To My Husban

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

Bro in the last 24 hours on this forum another Shia Bro has posted a picture of himself next to some ladies. He says they are part of a dance troupe.

I do not see any one of the people who have criticised Sis Batoul, making even the slightest comment to that other poster about the acceptability of his actions, from an Islamic pov.

As I said, true colours.

Ah yes, you uncovered my true colors. I confess I am not part of the haraam police who go around patrolling this place and looking for offensive gender mixing photographs. You were just too clever for me Haji (your profoundly insightful investigation above should have tipped me off).

I apologize for not doing my part today by loudly proclaiming that a guy taking a picture with a girl is morally repugnant. I assumed you would be all over that and didn't feel the need to address it the way I feel the need to address a woman who claims to be the victim of abuse and is then called (without proof) an adulteress who would be stoned (yes, my selective outrage is quite baffling).

What I find even more interesting is that you have a problem understanding why the OP can (under the veil of anonymity) suddenly find a voice- but you don't seem to have any problem with the fascinating and amusing contradiction we saw when Batool was inviting the flames of hell on this woman only to switch gears and open the gates of heaven for her a few hours later (phew!!)

Come on Haji.. who is really being selective? But we all knew that.. the ironic projection is just always entertaining.

People on here often try to pretend they are protecting "true" Islam with their behavior, but most can recognize that they are just taking their baggage, dressing it up, and attempting to shove it down the throats of people here and pass it off as the absolute moral truth. The idea of being virtuous and truly Muslim is dumbed down to trying as hard as possibly to prove the OP is a liar in order to justify judging her (a lot more harshly than you would ever judge your own transgressions). It is a behavioral tendency among religious folks who lack an actual understanding of religion.

I understand why a few over zealous cyber imams would applaud such behavior, but perhaps you should pay attention to the majority of this thread (not that the majority on shiachat is usually right) and leave your role of Sherlock Khala for the more appropriate, fitting shoes of moderator because that is, after all, your job. It requires you to act in a professional manner. Please wow us all by doing that for once :angel:

Edit: Never actually saw the amusing picture you are referencing (I had a law and gender exam today)

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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I love how two members in this thread are only able to read one half of a sentence, and completely ignore the other half which is right after the comma one of them even quoted. I think its hilarious how the sentence they are quoting is exactly what i have been saying this entire time, but in "nicer" words, so somehow now its acceptable.

You people act like little emotional kids.

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(salam)

As much as everyone's said to the lady: that her relationship with the other man is haram - I think she gets the point already. It was necessary upon the people to point out that mistake of hers and to tell her to stop it. However, the only problem I have is with the bold statement: probably go to hell. We have no right to say that, based upon one initial post of a person when we have no clue what other deeds she has done in the few decades of her life. For that, I want to share this story about a guy whom people thought would probably go to hell as well.

Sheikh Bahai, one of the leading Muslim theologians, records in Vo. 5 of his book called "Kashkul" that
a reputed sinner
happened to die in the suburb of Basra, Iraq, and his widow did her best to obtain the assistance of the villagers to wash, shroud and bury his body according to Muslim rites but none of them, because of the deceased's notoriety, could be persuaded to co-operate. As a last recourse, she had the deceased's body removed by porters to a place where the Muslims usually assembled for their prayers in the hope that some of the congregation might recite the funeral prayer on the dead body
but no one took any notice of the body.
She then got the porters to remove the corpse to a desert and accompanied the body with the intention of getting a grave dug and bury it without ablution, shrouds or funeral prayers. On reaching the desert, she was surprised to see an aged devout worshiper, who lived in a cave near by to spend the rest of his life in devotion and worship of
Allah
, waiting to receive the corpse. The devout worshiper took over the corpse, washed and shrouded it and dispatched a courier to the villagers in the vicinity that he was going to recite the funeral prayer on the body. When the villagers and the people in the city of Basra got this news, a crowd of them assembled in the desert and inquired from the venerable worshiper, who was held in high esteem for his piety and asceticism, as to what prompted him, to leave the place of his worship and attend to the funeral rites of a reputed wretch. He replied that he had seen a vision commanding him to attend to the funeral rites of the deceased who, he said, was described in the vision as "a; repentant person whom
Allah
had forgiven and had assigned to him a place in the vicinity of His Mercy." The crowd being astonished to hear of this vision, asked the deceased's widow if he had any virtues to deserve a place in the Divine Mercy. She said that so far as she knew,
her husband was addicted to drinking and gay life
but he did possess three peculiar qualities. Firstly, when he woke up at day break, he used to perform an absolute ablution of his body, dress in pure garments and say his morning prayers. Secondly, never a day passed without him doing some kindness to orphans. It was his habit to refuse taking his meals unless two or three orphans joined him and he used to treat orphans more kindly than his own children. Thirdly, if he happened to wake up in the middle of the night, he used to weep and pray "My Lord! Is it possible for my body to be so enlarged as to fill up the entire pit of hell so that there would be no room in it for any one else; my Master! I shall endure Thy hell fire but I shall not be able to endure to see the sufferings of Thine other creatures." When the crowd heard this talk of the widow, they all -including the devout worshiper wept and said-"Indeed, we are fortunate to be able to join the funeral prayer of such a patron of orphans and tender hearted person." They then all joined in the funeral prayer and buried the body with respect and dignity. (Anisul Lail).

http://www.al-islam.org/kumayl/english.htm

I believe we have absolutely no level of information about this lady here through which we can even begin to assume that she will "probably go to hell". We are in no position to say such a thing. The ahadith are there to let you know the severity of the sin and that the punishment is hell - but it does not give us the right to make judgments and assumptions about a person, particularly when we know absolutely nothing about their life. A post on ShiaChat does not constitute as knowing about their life - perhaps she had repented a few minutes before she made that post, who knows. We don't have to investigate and neither do we need to act as if she needs to openly repent for that specific sin by making a post on ShiaChat. She can do that on her prayer mat. If you have told her that what she is doing is haram, then you have done your job.

Wassalam

Islam flexible religion, it gives space of room for correcting our sins/mistakes with the condition the sin not has to be repeated and to avoid .

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You people act like little emotional kids.

Eqbal Ahmad once wrote...

Complexity and pluralism threaten most - hopefully not all - contemporary Islamists,
because they seek an Islamic order reduced to a penal code, stripped of its humanism, aesthetics, intellectual quests, and spiritual devotion.

...it's too bad he's dead! But lucky for you, through the power of the Internet (yet another invention of the kufaar, might I remind you!) his amazing work is at your fingertips!

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Guest

^Messed up on so many levels...

1. Islam supersedes complexity, not the other way around. An avocation of the proper Islamic penal code is not mutually exclusive to "humanism, aesthetics, intellectual quests, and spiritual devotion". As far as I am concerned, it's all in one package, and everything builds one on top of the other. Politics, prayer, fasting, ethics, human interaction, personal building, all go hand in hand. Unfortunately for you, not everyone desires as their end result only the parts that suit them, and only the parts that work in harmony with liberal society. Liberal society is subject to Islam's laws, not the other way around. I have found in my life that those who hold such liberal "tolerant" viewpoints are mostly feeders of propaganda and tend to have some sort of an identity crisis, whether they want to admit it or not. When someone has a stronger spiritual and political connection with a Bono concert than they do a majalis than we know we have a problem.

2. The whole "Internet created by the kuffar" comment is a desperate attempt to portray people who don't agree with your liberal views as a bunch of intolerant and name calling bigots. Humanity makes many contributions, and all progress and positive outcomes comes only with the grace of God, not with what any people themselves have done. I can turn it back to you and say that the very algorithms, mathematics, chemistry, etc that all was essential into creating the computer in the first place had at one point its derivations in the Middle East, and without a doubt most of it being contributed by Imam Sadegh (a). So the creators of the internet? Pssst. Who cares? I say Allah bless us for having what we have. Who knows? There is probably a whole lot more technology that humanity could have by now had had it not been suppressed by both munafiq and kuffar alike. But I don't spend my days lingering on these concepts.

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^ You still need to understand that your position is just one position among others. There's a hadith by the Prophet(S) saying there as many paths to Allah(swt) as there are Muslims.

So when that's understood, you don't act like your opinions are an absolute extension of Allah's(swt) Deen - and you don't need to "help" Allah(swt)!

The Imam is occult for a reason! Everybody is free under responsibility while on Earth - some of you can't grasp that. Why did Allah(swt) send Prophets(S) and Imams?

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^Messed up on so many levels...

1. Islam supersedes complexity, not the other way around. An avocation of the proper Islamic penal code is not mutually exclusive to "humanism, aesthetics, intellectual quests, and spiritual devotion". As far as I am concerned, it's all in one package, and everything builds one on top of the other. Politics, prayer, fasting, ethics, human interaction, personal building, all go hand in hand. Unfortunately for you, not everyone desires as their end result only the parts that suit them, and only the parts that work in harmony with liberal society. Liberal society is subject to Islam's laws, not the other way around. I have found in my life that those who hold such liberal "tolerant" viewpoints are mostly feeders of propaganda and tend to have some sort of an identity crisis, whether they want to admit it or not. When someone has a stronger spiritual and political connection with a Bono concert than they do a majalis than we know we have a problem.

2. The whole "Internet created by the kuffar" comment is a desperate attempt to portray people who don't agree with your liberal views as a bunch of intolerant and name calling bigots. Humanity makes many contributions, and all progress and positive outcomes comes only with the grace of God, not with what any people themselves have done. I can turn it back to you and say that the very algorithms, mathematics, chemistry, etc that all was essential into creating the computer in the first place had at one point its derivations in the Middle East, and without a doubt most of it being contributed by Imam Sadegh (a). So the creators of the internet? Pssst. Who cares? I say Allah bless us for having what we have. Who knows? There is probably a whole lot more technology that humanity could have by now had had it not been suppressed by both munafiq and kuffar alike. But I don't spend my days lingering on these concepts.

You would obviously do yourself an immense favour by enrolling in an English 101 class (only because we are conversing in English). Either you fail to comprehend what Ahmad has said, or you deliberately choose to ignore it: Islam and Islamists are two different things. In any case, take terms and ideas as broad and abstract as 'liberal society' and continue to fiddle with them inside your head - if it helps you avert the identity crisis that I seem to be under, then all the better.

P.S. I couldn't agree with you more: Islam does in deed supersede complexity! But you forgot that Islam also supersedes water, air, smell, vision, taste, colour, space, yogurt, ice cream and toilet paper etc.

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Guest

You would obviously do yourself an immense favour by enrolling in an English 101 class (only because we are conversing in English). Either you fail to comprehend what Ahmad has said, or you deliberately choose to ignore it: Islam and Islamists are two different things. In any case, take terms and ideas as broad and abstract as 'liberal society' and continue to fiddle with them inside your head - if it helps you avert the identity crisis that I seem to be under, then all the better.

P.S. I couldn't agree with you more: Islam does in deed supersede complexity! But you forgot that Islam also supersedes water, air, smell, vision, taste, colour, space, yogurt, ice cream and toilet paper etc.

This reinforces to me the disingenuous nature of some of you guys in terms of argument and presentation. It's always done in such a vitriolic, mocking, and bourgeois tone.

When I disagree with you, I am accused of being deficient in English and ignoring the "substance" of the argument. Many times in the past you have ignored a lot of the essence of what I have tried to say, but I always let it slide. I usually just go on ahead and just work with what you give me.

Am I really being presented as a partisan, an ideologue, a hopeless fool, and closed minded? What did I get to deserve such a distinction? Because I refuse to give into the idea that since everything is so abstract and complex, that I should just shut up because I don't know what's good for me, and by extension what's good for society?

Are you the neutral one? Are your views the default one? Do only my views step on people's toes, and yours do not? What direction are you wanting us to look? Please tell me so that I know what to do. Enough of theory. Where's the practice?

Edited by Mahdaviat

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You would obviously do yourself an immense favour by enrolling in an English 101 class (only because we are conversing in English). Either you fail to comprehend what Ahmad has said, or you deliberately choose to ignore it: Islam and Islamists are two different things. In any case, take terms and ideas as broad and abstract as 'liberal society' and continue to fiddle with them inside your head - if it helps you avert the identity crisis that I seem to be under, then all the better.

P.S. I couldn't agree with you more: Islam does in deed supersede complexity! But you forgot that Islam also supersedes water, air, smell, vision, taste, colour, space, yogurt, ice cream and toilet paper etc.

Firstly, suggesting that people who disagree with liberal ideals are somehow hypocrites for using the internet is ridiculous. By the same token I could say that anti-Islamic Europeans are hypocrites for studying Plato and Aristotle (remember that Islamic societies preserved the works of these philosophers while Europeans were burning them). Brother Mahdaviat was touching on this point. This is an elementary concept which has been espoused by Emam Khomeini, Shahid Motahari, and others: rejecting those aspects of Western society which conflict with Islamic principles does not entail rejecting EVERYTHING that has EVER come about from Western society. You are creating a false dichotomy. As Emam Khomeini said: "We accept the advancements of the Western world but not the Western corruption."

Secondly, "Islamism" is the most brain-dead term in the English language. When you ask someone what this term means, they answer "political Islam" (which is a redundancy). So before we move forward, you are gonna need to say what you think "Islamism" means. Mullah Omar, Tayyip Erdogan, and Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah are all called "Islamists," but they subscribe to very divergent ideas.

Edited by baradar_jackson

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

I love how two members in this thread are only able to read one half of a sentence, and completely ignore the other half which is right after the comma one of them even quoted. I think its hilarious how the sentence they are quoting is exactly what i have been saying this entire time, but in "nicer" words, so somehow now its acceptable.

You people act like little emotional kids.

Glad you have found something to amuse yourself with (no clue what you are referring to.. but glad nontheless).

As for the "emotional kids" bit.. suffice it to say I am not the one throwing stones and making fatwas based on whims.

This reinforces to me the disingenuous nature of some of you guys in terms of argument and presentation. It's always done in such a vitriolic, mocking, and bourgeois tone.

When I disagree with you, I am accused of being deficient in English and ignoring the "substance" of the argument. Many times in the past you have ignored a lot of the essence of what I have tried to say, but I always let it slide. I usually just go on ahead and just work with what you give me.

Am I really being presented as a partisan, an ideologue, a fool trapped in a blanket, and closed minded? What did I get to deserve that? Because I refuse to give into the idea that since everything is so abstract and complex, that I should just shut up because I don't know what's good for me?

Seriously, the projection is funny. You guys try to investigate this woman's story in order to justify your behavior and then sit there and pretend you have everyone's "true nature" figure out. You don't. The reason Afreen told you to take an English 101 class was not because of spelling or grammar errors (its an online forum.. as long other understand what you are saying there is no need to edit) but because you literally did not get the point of Ahmad's quote. It completely flew over your head and you went off on a random tangent about liberal identity crisis, etc. WTH? Apples and oranges much?

It wasn't an accusation, it is just a fact that you either did not get the quote or you chose to ignore it because you thought "my rants on liberalism are so much more entertaining." Which was it?

And I feel myself repeating this to you over and over again Mahdaviat. Stop victimizing yourself. People on this forum actually use the term "marbaloids." Ive had a moderator refer to me as "a sis who always feels the need to defend the sisterhood." Guess why we aren't complaining about singled out? Because when you present your views unabashedly and you don't stick to valiance issues, you tend to elicit a response. If you constantly want to rant about liberal idolatry when it has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.. then suck it up. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen (again I am sure I have repeated this cheesy cliche to you before).

I see you condescend to people all the time (in this very thread) so just stop victimizing yourself because it makes me lose what respect I have for Iranian men.

Firstly, suggesting that people who disagree with liberal ideals are somehow hypocrites for using the internet is ridiculous. By the same token I could say that anti-Islamic Europeans are hypocrites for studying Plato and Aristotle (remember that Islamic societies preserved the works of these philosophers while Europeans were burning them). Brother Mahdaviat was touching on this point. This is an elementary concept which has been espoused by Emam Khomeini, Shahid Motahari, and others: rejecting those aspects of Western society which conflict with Islamic principles does not entail rejecting EVERYTHING that has EVER come about from Western society. You are creating a false dichotomy. As Emam Khomeini said: "We accept the advancements of the Western world but not the Western corruption."

Secondly, "Islamism" is the most brain-dead term in the English language. When you ask someone what this term means, they answer "political Islam" (which is a redundancy). So before we move forward, you are gonna need to say what you think "Islamism" means. Mullah Omar, Tayyip Erdogan, and Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah are all called "Islamists," but they subscribe to very divergent ideas.

It was a joke baradar!!

Your posts are always interesting though (sincere, I promise)

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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This reinforces to me the disingenuous nature of some of you guys in terms of argument and presentation. It's always done in such a vitriolic, mocking, and bourgeois tone.

When I disagree with you, I am accused of being deficient in English and ignoring the "substance" of the argument. Many times in the past you have ignored a lot of the essence of what I have tried to say, but I always let it slide. I usually just go on ahead and just work with what you give me.

Am I really being presented as a partisan, an ideologue, a hopeless fool, and closed minded? What did I get to deserve such a distinction? Because I refuse to give into the idea that since everything is so abstract and complex, that I should just shut up because I don't know what's good for me, and by extension what's good for society?

Are you the neutral one? Are your views the default one? Do only my views step on people's toes, and yours do not? What direction are you wanting us to look? Please tell me so that I know what to do. Enough of theory. Where's the practice?

Firstly, suggesting that people who disagree with liberal ideals are somehow hypocrites for using the internet is ridiculous. By the same token I could say that anti-Islamic Europeans are hypocrites for studying Plato and Aristotle (remember that Islamic societies preserved the works of these philosophers while Europeans were burning them). Brother Mahdaviat was touching on this point. This is an elementary concept which has been espoused by Emam Khomeini, Shahid Motahari, and others: rejecting those aspects of Western society which conflict with Islamic principles does not entail rejecting EVERYTHING that has EVER come about from Western society. You are creating a false dichotomy. As Emam Khomeini said: "We accept the advancements of the Western world but not the Western corruption."

Secondly, "Islamism" is the most brain-dead term in the English language. When you ask someone what this term means, they answer "political Islam" (which is a redundancy). So before we move forward, you are gonna need to say what you think "Islamism" means. Mullah Omar, Tayyip Erdogan, and Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah are all called "Islamists," but they subscribe to very divergent ideas.

simpsons-doh.jpg

Edited by Aafreen

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simpsons-doh.jpg

I never claimed to be a genious. But at least I put some thought into my post. What about you? Are you even trying to be reasonable?

Yes yes, I know. You don't want to "waste time" responding to my "pathetic diatribe" or whatever... but if that is the case, then why are you even here?

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

I try not to play the "victim". I always speak with shackles and with a massive amount of self-restraint because, believe it or not, I am way too polite. I'm also way too patient, because all of my best friends have left this site long ago, yet I still am here for some reason reading the most ludicrous stuff I've ever read, and feeling absolutely ashamed that I am even taking a part in it.

I still have this fantasy of having constructive dialogue and trying to learn something from people, with an actual intention of serious consideration. But as I go, I see some of you guys as just disingenuous, uninspiring, and ridiculous. You guys have convinced me of very little. I am still here and am patiently waiting.

All I see is cries for tolerance and acceptance for some but then complete anger and bitterness towards others who have disagreements with you. I rest my case, if I had come on this forum as a self-described rapper having four girlfriends, being a Persian Party playboy, but cracking a few jokes and saying a few poems on this site, you would all come with me with sweet words, warm responses, kindness, and jokes. But you come with confrontation, and then you misrepresent my firmness with being combative.

What am I supposed to do? Tell me what you want me to be. Surely if you know something I don't know, then tell me so I can follow it and implement it. I'm all ears. That's what I am here for.

I didn't preach tolerance in this thread. I preached thoughtfulness. Don't accuse, don't throw stones and condemn to hell, don't assume, etc. These are all very Islamic principles. There was a blatant lack of consideration for the requirements one must fulfill to go about accusing one of adultery, etc. You showed no concern about this gross simplification and disrespect to Islam and yet you are calling me a hypocrite for being intolerant towards intolerance? Smooth.

As for your ridiculous persian party playboy comments- I think this is just another case of you playing victim. My friends are not Persian party players who crack jokes and rap on the side (thanks for the amusing mental imagery). They happen to be intelligent and thoughtful people. The problem with explaining this to someone who lives in a world of black v white, liberal v Islam, etc is that it requires them to see beyond their nose.

Let us not try to take the higher moral ground. If you really had a fantasy about constructive dialogue you would begin by behaving in a manner that contributes to it. You reframe the debate into a liberalism bashing even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and then complain about the lack of constructive debate. Again, smooth.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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Salam,

I know that no one has ANY right to judge her or anyone else of that matter. I was extremely disappointed to read the cruel comments stated. She came here for help because she was lost. She admitted from the BEGINNING she was wrong. How many of YOU out there can have the courage to post about your personal life and ADMIT you committed a SIN?? :realangery: This just infuriates me to see Shiaat Ali so quick to comdemn a Muslim seeking help. ISTAGHFURALLAH!!

So many non-muslims stumble across Shiachat and when they see how quick you are to judge your Muslim sister or brother, then all you did is just prove what the media is saying is true. :no:

Wa Salam.

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Guest

I didn't preach tolerance in this thread. I preached thoughtfulness. Don't accuse, don't throw stones and condemn to hell, don't assume, etc. These are all very Islamic principles. There was a blatant lack of consideration for the requirements one must fulfill to go about accusing one of adultery, etc. You showed no concern about this gross simplification and disrespect to Islam and yet you are calling me a hypocrite for being intolerant towards intolerance? Smooth.

As for your ridiculous persian party playboy comments- I think this is just another case of you playing victim. My friends are not Persian party players who crack jokes and rap on the side (thanks for the amusing mental imagery). They happen to be intelligent and thoughtful people. The problem with explaining this to someone who lives in a world of black v white, liberal v Islam, etc is that it requires them to see beyond their nose.

Let us not try to take the higher moral ground. If you really had a fantasy about constructive dialogue you would begin by behaving in a manner that contributes to it. You reframe the debate into a liberalism bashing even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and then complain about the lack of constructive debate. Again, smooth.

It has everything to do with liberalism and its choking and mesmerizing grip on you people in every facet (politics, social/family issues, etc). What are you talking about is not thoughtfulness. It is only negligence. Nobody has condemned anyone anywhere or assumed anything beyond what has been told. The person who started this thread has stated a fact that she was with another man. Someone responds with the conditional statement that if someone does this and die tomorrow, that person will probably go to hell. In fact that's a double conditional statement. There's no condemning, no assuming, no judgments. That's simply a statement and it is a factual one based on our traditions. Hiding or neglecting these facts is not doing her any service. It's called tough love. "Only Allah can judge you" is already a given.

Fine, sorry for being creative. How about this, I am a regular guy who goes to rock concerts, has a secret girlfriend, and I a love for reading Shakesphere and my girlfriend likes Virginia Woolf. I frequent the poetry forums and have a cup of wine with thou Marbles. How about that? Is that more realistic for you? If I start a thread on that, will I get these long posts stating I'm a nice guy and that I have every right to just be "me"?

Accusing people of "taking moral high grounds" are just diversions for when you have nothing to say back. I would assume all of us would be doing so if we are arguing for points we agree with and the best course of action to take. Am I supposed to say, "this is what I believe, I didn't bother to aim for what I thought was the most moral approach, just what I felt like". Liberalism, in the forms advocated by superpowers, is a misguided ideology and it should be targeted for criticism, and that's my idea of a constructive dialogue. Putting your beliefs, defaults, and givens and challenging them. I apologize for none of it. But again, that doesn't mean I am not willing to listen to what you have to say as a counter. And as of yet, I am still not convinced of a whole lot. I'm sorry.

Edited by Mahdaviat

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

It has everything to do with liberalism and its choking and mesmerizing grip on you people in every facet (politics, social/family issues, etc). What are you talking about is not thoughtfulness. It is only negligence. Nobody has condemned anyone anywhere or assumed anything beyond what has been told. The person who started this thread has stated a fact that she was with another man. Someone responds with the conditional statement that if someone does this and die tomorrow, that person will probably go to hell. In fact that's a double conditional statement. There's no condemning, no assuming, no judgments. That's simply a statement and it is a factual one based on our traditions. Hiding or neglecting these facts is not doing her any service. It's called tough love. "Only Allah can judge you" is already a given.

Fine, sorry for being creative. How about this, I am a regular guy who goes to rock concerts, has a secret girlfriend, and I a love for reading Shakesphere and my girlfriend likes Virginia Woolf. I frequent the poetry forums and have a cup of wine with thou Marbles. How about that? Is that more realistic for you? If I start a thread on that, will I get these long posts stating I'm a nice guy and that I have every right to just be "me"?

Accusing people of "taking moral high grounds" are just diversions for when you have nothing to say back. I would assume all of us would be doing so if we are arguing for points we agree with and the best course of action to take. Am I supposed to say, "this is what I believe, I didn't bother to aim for what I thought was the most moral approach, just what I felt like". Liberalism, in the forms advocated by superpowers, is a misguided ideology and it should be targeted for criticism, and that's my idea of a constructive dialogue. Putting your beliefs, defaults, and givens and challenging them. I apologize for none of it. But again, that doesn't mean I am not willing to listen to what you have to say as a counter. And as of yet, I am still not convinced of a whole lot. I'm sorry.

The only reason I am still replying to you is because you made several factual errors. Even sis Batoul was not audacious enough to suggest what she said was entirely appropriate (saying the imams would have her stoned if they were alive). Haji went so far as to say that the man must "have the patience of a saint" to resist a physical relationship (implying the relationship was more than emotional) and then went so far as to assume she was a troll because she felt safe speaking out online and not to her abusive husband's face (a point you seemed to find compelling oddly enough). Calling her an adulteress= assuming things she simply did not disclose. It isn't called "tough love" it is called "playing God." For you to say there were no judgments or assumptions made in this thread is for you to show that this is more about being willfully ignorant or defiant than actually engaging in the constructive debate you claim to desire.

If a woman who was part of an abusive relationship died today having developed an emotional attachment to another man.. would she go to hell? Would the Imams stone her? Probably becomes inappropriate in this context.

I said you were "taking the higher moral ground" because you are doing so needlessly. I mean you can be just as petty, condescending, and biased as any of the "others." Don't claim that you are somehow interesting in constructive dialogue when EVERY opportunity you have to engage in constructive dialogue you turn into an opportunity to unleash simplistic talking point as if you are being paid by the Iranian version of Fox news. I am not buying it. Show me you even understand the political philosophies of liberalism or you have ever actually studied the texts of contemporary political thought and I will take you seriously. Continue to pander to your audience and I will be less interested in doing so.

As for your hypothetical situation- it is yet again another case of you playing victim. "oh they don't like me because I am too hardcore Muslim!! I need to drink wine, read English literature (not a bad idea actually) and have girlfriends for these liberal feminist apologists to accept me!!"

For you to suggest that these things (which are obviously religious transgressions.. except the poetry which you probably still consider haraam) are requirements for me to accept someone is one of the best indicators of your mentality and makes your true intentions pretty transparent.

I will concede one thing though.. that the person you described above is a lot more tolerable than half the self appointed cyber imams who won't rest until they have made wahabis look mild in comparison

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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im really disguisted at the responses from our follow shia ? are we the same people who show so much love and compassion for ahlulbayt as ?? please instead of critizing people why cant we help them! why cant we gain hassanaat from helping each other out, instead of lashing out at one another

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im really disguisted at the responses from our follow shia ? are we the same people who show so much love and compassion for ahlulbayt as ?? please instead of critizing people why cant we help them! why cant we gain hassanaat from helping each other out, instead of lashing out at one another

Because it makes us feel good and lessens the guilt we should feel for our own sins of lesser or similar magnitude.

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Because it makes us feel good and lessens the guilt we should feel for our own sins of lesser or similar magnitude.

Yeah it's a convenient way of shifting the main focus we should have according to Islaam - the focus upon ourselves(Jihad-ul-Akbaar)...

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Sis Batoul has unregistered, and I cannot blame her at all.

The brain drain on this forum increases.

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Sis Batoul has unregistered, and I cannot blame her at all.

The brain drain on this forum increases.

Well I can't blame her either.. I mean if I had someone tell me the imams would stone me and that I would "probably" go to hell I would also unregistered.. oh wait.. that was someone else..

I mean, I don't know why she unregistered, but I certainly hope it wasn't because she couldn't take the same "tough love" y'all keep advocating that people dish out to someone in a time of need.

As for the brain drain.. I am sorry a source of your intellectual stimulation is gone :huh: Maybe this will inspire you to open a book? Reading is fun, promise.

You unregistered at one point too, and I sincerely hope she (like yourself) comes back. I am certain she will

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If you look at the trends over the past few years, a great deal of many decent people have left the site. Have you ever thought that people like you have not partially contributed to this? That there is little incentive to come here and post, and whatever few decent people are here in spite of your nonsense?

No, I already read books. Please tell me what you recommend however.

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If you look at the trends over the past few years, a great deal of many decent people have left the site. Have you ever thought that people like you have not partially contributed to this? That there is little incentive to come here and post, and whatever few decent people are here in spite of your nonsense?

No, I already read books. Please tell me what you recommend however.

Why don't you mention specific names though? Who have "people like me" chased out of this website? It isn't enough to just level an accusation like you leveled against the OP and then expect people to take you seriously.

Your friend Rubaiyat perhaps? The guy who implied that I wore hooker heels? That is the only other person I can remember.. and I am most certainly not apologetic about responding to him accordingly. Nope, can't say I would take a word of it back because people like him are not interested in anything but baseless character assassination (like some on this very thread)

I am sick and tired of people who attack getting offended when the tables are turned. You would have been perfectly content had this thread turned into a bashing of the OP. You wouldn't have said a word. You are just offended because people don't let you get away with it anymore.

Bitter pill. Swallow it and move on.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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If you look at the trends over the past few years, a great deal of many decent people have left the site. Have you ever thought that people like you have not partially contributed to this?

I think you need to reflect on what you have posted - yet again an evaluation and condemnation of yet another in just one thread - and ask that question of yourself...a much more useful and valid exercise in terms of self development and development of the community here - please stop trying to form camps and divisions.

Edited by Maryaam

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The word "condemning" is used so loosely around here. I am very much self-reflective, and I post my opinion and viewpoint with an honest intention. I am not a monkey on a keyboard. When I say something, I absolutely mean it.

The fact that you thought I was 40 years old when I am only a 21 year old college student demonstrates to me the limited perspectives you have in your life, and what narrow horizons you yourself have. But I don't linger on telling people to self-reflect, I assume that is already a given and they already know that.

I am young, I have plenty of time to self-develop. That's why I am here.

Edited by Mahdaviat

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The word "condemning" is used so loosely around here. I am very much self-reflective, and I post my opinion and viewpoint with an honest intention. I am not a monkey on a keyboard.

The fact that you thought I was 40 years old when I am only a 21 year old college student demonstrates to me the limited perspectives you have in your life, and what narrow horizons you yourself have. But I don't linger on telling people to self-reflect, I assume that is already a given and they already know that.

I am young, I have plenty of time to self-develop. That's why I am here.

I have been added to your judged and condemned category of division - what is the count for this thread alone?

I have given you the benefit of the doubt brother and have even erased well thought out, time consuming posts and encouraged others to do so to appease you and your voracious appetite for being "right"... and on the possiblity that I was "wrong" and so as not to offend you. I thought peace among all of us was more important than who was right or wrong, and I have no problem stepping back if that is what it achieves. It looks like I have a lot of learning to do in how, where and when to compromise.

I was joking when I said 40 as I know you from your former Identity - I had no idea you were going to add it to your arsenal.

Edited by Maryaam

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If you look at the trends over the past few years, a great deal of many decent people have left the site. Have you ever thought that people like you have not partially contributed to this? That there is little incentive to come here and post, and whatever few decent people are here in spite of your nonsense?

No, I already read books. Please tell me what you recommend however.

Are you kidding me with this?

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I have been added to your judged and condemned category of division - what is the count for this thread alone?

I have given you the benefit of the doubt brother and have even erased well thought out, time consuming posts and encouraged others to do so to appease you and your voracious appetite for being "right"... and on the possiblity that I was "wrong" and so as not to offend you. I thought peace among all of us was more important than who was right or wrong, and I have no problem stepping back if that is what it achieves. It looks like I have a lot of learning to do in how, where and when to compromise.

I was joking when I said 40 as I know you from your former Identity - I had no idea you were going to add it to your arsenal.

Please, I'm not the boogeyman or some assassin putting you on my hit list....

No, I understand what you are talking about. However, claiming that I have an "appetite for being right" is in itself a judgment. However, I am satisfied that is what you think of me. I don't care to partake in moral relativism and feel good liberal values where we all agree to just love each other in the most fake and superficial way. The path of truth and error is a clear and straight path, and although we all have our own relative frames of reference, we should all generally be pointing in a relatively similar direction. I want to challenge yours, and you should have the right to challenge mine. That's the name of the game, and that's the greatest service you can do for me.

I offered to read stuff you wanted me to read, but you provided me nothing.

Are you kidding me with this?

Absolutely not. It's a completely legit question that I have. Too bad none of these members are here to vouch for themselves.

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Please, I'm not the boogeyman or some assassin putting you on my hit list....

No, I understand what you are talking about. However, claiming that I have an "appetite for being right" is in itself a judgment. However, I am satisfied that is what you think of me. I don't care to partake in moral relativism and feel good liberal values where we all agree to just love each other in the most fake and superficial way. The path of truth and error is a clear and straight path, and although we all have our own relative frames of reference, we should all generally be pointing in a relatively similar direction. I want to challenge yours, and you should have the right to challenge mine. That's the name of the game, and that's the greatest service you can do for me.

I offered to read stuff you wanted me to read, but you provided me nothing.

What moral relativism are you referring to? What "feel good" liberal values? :huh: This is the problem Mahdaviat- you spin everything and go off on a random tangent. What are you trying to challenge? What battles are you valiantly fighting in your own head? This thread wasn't about liberalism. There was a group of people who were calling this woman an adulteress, saying she would "probably" go to hell and the imams would stone her, assuming things about her relationship that she didn't disclose, and finally just calling her a troll based on even more unfounded assumptions. What "path" of truth are you advocating? Others on this thread didn't feel comfortable engaging in this sort of behavior. This isn't liberalism. We refer to it as decency.

You are being so disingenuous

Edit: Not too sure what to suggest to someone who thinks Khayyam's poetry and Shakespeare is borderline blasphemous. You mentioned being a college student.. I suggest you take a few courses in political theory and contemporary political thought to get some exposure. The problem with discussing political liberalism with you is that the foundation simply isn't there and you seem a tad confused as to what it actually means.

Don't be so selective. I take classes that challenge my views all the time and I am usually not disappointed.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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