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In the Name of God بسم الله

In Love With Christian Woman

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I am dating a Christian woman with the hope of marriage in the near future. I am asking if it is okay to marry her, although she has different belief. When Allah gave Adam (as) Hawa as his mate, there was no ceremony. Also, Allah speaks of the Prophets Nuh (as), and Lut (as) as having bad wives. The Holy Quran is not clear on whether they (the wives) were mu'min or not. The woman I desire to marry is very spiritual and modest in character and dress. However, she believes that Isa (as) is her savior. She believes in Allah as the Creator, but not in His Tawhid. I welcome any comments on this topic.

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Then she is not a believer. I am sorry for you Brother you have fallen for her.

Allah says in a Quran that those who say Allah is one of the three are not belivers.

[shakir 5:73] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one Allah, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.

You are not allowed to marry her until she believes to Allah as a muslim, or as a Ahlul kitab (poeple of the book)

ir 2:221] And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.

hakir 5:5] This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them; and the chaste from among the believing women and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book before you (are lawful for you); when you have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Because she is not poeple of the book mentioned in Quran, but she is those who are not believers she is not halal for you.

All you can do, is pray Allah to guide her and try to teach her Oneness of Allah, if you still want her.

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I am dating a Christian woman with the hope of marriage in the near future. I am asking if it is okay to marry her, although she has different belief. When Allah gave Adam (as) Hawa as his mate, there was no ceremony. Also, Allah speaks of the Prophets Nuh (as), and Lut (as) as having bad wives. The Holy Quran is not clear on whether they (the wives) were mu'min or not. The woman I desire to marry is very spiritual and modest in character and dress. However, she believes that Isa (as) is her savior. She believes in Allah as the Creator, but not in His Tawhid. I welcome any comments on this topic.

You could mutah with her all your life. But bear in mind the difficulties you would encounter when you have children. It could be a tug of war between you two, who would want to bring them up your way. She would want to baptise them, attend church, give them Christian names and God Forbid, if you have a daughter, she would probably have a boyfriend or two and you would have hardly any chance of influencing her. That is the cynical side.

Perhaps you could revert her, make her a Muslima. Easier said than done.

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You could mutah with her all your life. But bear in mind the difficulties you would encounter when you have children. It could be a tug of war between you two, who would want to bring them up your way. She would want to baptise them, attend church, give them Christian names and God Forbid, if you have a daughter, she would probably have a boyfriend or two and you would have hardly any chance of influencing her. That is the cynical side.

Perhaps you could revert her, make her a Muslima. Easier said than done.

No. You cant make mutah to kafir/mushrik.

2:221 And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe,

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Are you deducing fatwas from the Quran yourself? You would probably be at loggerheads with the Grand Ayatollahs on this.

Life is life.

This is what I understand clearly. Look my up post. Kufar/idolator is haram and Allah has told that ahlul kitab is halal, and Allah has defined who are the christians of ahlul kitab and who are christians of hell.

Prophet Muhammed (SAAS) said: "Marriage is the biggest institution laid by Islam."

We dont want pagans breed children to earth.

Edited by Ali Askari
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The woman I desire to marry is very spiritual...

Sorry, but what does this mean exactly?

I find its use in contexts such as this very difficult to take seriously. It raises images of people who light incense sticks, buy evil eye charms in Morrocan souks, go for palm readings and if they're sympathetic towards Muslims listen to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

But of course it's very meaningless in any sense of haram or halal.

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Life is life.

This is what I understand clearly. Look my up post. Kufar/idolator is haram and Allah has told that ahlul kitab is halal, and Allah has defined who are the christians of ahlul kitab and who are christians of hell.

Prophet Muhammed (SAAS) said: "Marriage is the biggest institution laid by Islam."

We dont want pagans breed children to earth.

Maybe I need to understand the difference between the Christians of Ahl ul Kitab and Christians of Hell, in that case. Care to explain?

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Salam,

So you must learn to recognize the qualities of people of the jannah, and people off the hell in general.

Allah has made good doers to be people of the paradise.

He has atributed good deeds to belief to His oneness, and made His prophets to represent goodness.

The main difference here is that words are only words, and meanings are the things that Allah judge between us.

Shakir 5:69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

This aya confirms that those who believe (firstly muslims) and those who are Jews, Sabians or christians whoever belief in Allah (first condition), and last day (second condition) and do good deeds (third condition). They shall have no fear no shall they grieve.

Here Allah promises good ending, that is Paradise.

Also Allah mentions that those who say Allah is one of the three are not believers. So, the first condition is now valiated. They also call themselves christians by name, but Allah has said that they believe not to Allah. Allah has said that "idolator" is not halal to marry for muslim man, or muslim woman. Therefore only those christians who believe to Allah, last day and do good are believers.

As Islam is last religion of Allah, this confirms that former nations where also given book by Allah, and those of them who did good will be in paradise.

Take care.

Not enough energy....

Autubillah.

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Basicly "good deeds" are whole ibada (worship of Allah) and most important of them is --- the salaat.

Isa, Ibn Mariam (as) prayed towards Jerusalem Qudsi. Those who deny the wajiba of salaat are kafirs.

Read Quran.

It helps. ensa Allah.

Thanks for the effort Ali. Much appreciated.

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I am dating a Christian woman with the hope of marriage in the near future. I am asking if it is okay to marry her, although she has different belief. When Allah gave Adam (as) Hawa as his mate, there was no ceremony. Also, Allah speaks of the Prophets Nuh (as), and Lut (as) as having bad wives. The Holy Quran is not clear on whether they (the wives) were mu'min or not. The woman I desire to marry is very spiritual and modest in character and dress. However, she believes that Isa (as) is her savior. She believes in Allah as the Creator, but not in His Tawhid. I welcome any comments on this topic.

I think that no matter what you do you will not be able to live with this person happily. Her belief in Isa as a God and her Savior is counter to everything you are. You will always find problems when she prays and celebrates his birth and death and resurrection. People somehow overcome many barriers in marriage, color, nationality, culture but this one will be like a rock in your shoe. If she didn't believe in anything you'd be better off. And once you have kids and she wants them baptized, and confirmed and christened and to be part of her celebrations you won't be so happy I guarantee it. So brother sorry you allowed yourself to fall in love with a woman who really is not for you, but there are many good Muslim women who could make you a good wife. Start over and if you are on your deen you won't have this problem right?

:shaytan: :Hijabi:

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It's people like you who exacerbate the problem we have in our communities of too many single women. It's people like you who don't do the male part of the equation of hijab-- marrying a hijabi; yes this Christian woman seems more attractive-- but Muslim hijabis are just as beautiful, they're just covering up and avoiding sin like Allah commanded. Muslim females become more hesitant about wearing hijab because they think it will hinder their marriage (and I've known some girls who even stopped for this reason)-- and they are partially right! Forget about this lady and find yourself a Muslim woman.

Edited by BabyBeaverIsAKit
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Do not go with this relationship, it is not based on any sound or solid philosophical or spiritual connection. In the end, all sides will have to tone themselves down and all agree to be relatively non-religious. Everyone will be happy, or at least pretend to be.

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(salam)

Let me try to shed some light for you guys...

Initially, marriage was allowed to Ahl al-Kitab as per 5:5.

(bismillah)

Çáúíóæúãó ÃõÍöáøó áóßõãõ ÇáØøóíøöÈóÇÊõ æóØóÚóÇãõ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÃõæÊõæÇú ÇáúßöÊóÇÈó Íöáøñ áøóßõãú æóØóÚóÇãõßõãú Íöáøõ áøóåõãú æóÇáúãõÍúÕóäóÇÊõ ãöäó ÇáúãõÄúãöäóÇÊö æóÇáúãõÍúÕóäóÇÊõ ãöäó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÃõæÊõæÇú ÇáúßöÊóÇÈó ãöä ÞóÈúáößõãú ÅöÐóÇ ÂÊóíúÊõãõæåõäøó ÃõÌõæÑóåõäøó ãõÍúÕöäöíäó ÛóíúÑó ãõÓóÇÝöÍöíäó æóáÇó ãõÊøóÎöÐöí ÃóÎúÏóÇäò æóãóä íóßúÝõÑú ÈöÇáÅöíãóÇäö ÝóÞóÏú ÍóÈöØó Úóãóáõåõ æóåõæó Ýöí ÇáÂÎöÑóÉö ãöäó ÇáúÎóÇÓöÑöíäó

"This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honor, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter." (5:5)

However, according to the Imams (as), this verse has been abrogated:

From Furu' al-Kafi

- ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÝÖÇá¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä Ìåã ÞÇá: ÞÇá áí ÃÈæ ÇáÍÓä ÇáÑÖÇ (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) íÇ ÃÈÇ ãÍãÏ ãÇ ÊÞæá Ýí ÑÌá íÊÒæÌ äÕÑÇäíÉ Úáì ãÓáãÉ¿ ÞáÊ: ÌÚáÊ ÝÏÇß æãÇ Þæáí Èíä íÏíß¡ ÞÇá: áÊÞæáä ÝÅä Ðáß íÚáã Èå Þæáí¡ ÞáÊ: áÇ íÌæÒ ÊÒæíÌ ÇáäÕÑÇäíÉ Úáì ãÓáãÉ æáÇ ÛíÑ ãÓáãÉ¡ ÞÇá: æáã¿ ÞáÊ: áÞæá Çááå ÚÒ æÌá (æáÇ ÊäßÍæÇ ÇáãÔÑßÇÊ ÍÊì íÄãä) ÞÇá: ÝãÇ ÊÞæá Ýí åÐå ÇáÂíÉ: (æÇáãÍÕäÇÊ ãä ÇáÐíä ÇÊæ ÇáßÊÇÈ ãä ÞÈáßã)¿ ÞáÊ: ÝÞæáå: (æáÇ ÊäßÍæÇ ÇáãÔÑßÇÊ) äÓÎÊ åÐå ÇáÂíÉ ÝÊÈÓã Ëã ÓßÊ

6 – Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Faddal from al-Hasan b. Jahm. He said: Abu ‘l-Hasan ar-Rida Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said to me: O Abu Muhammad, what do you say about a man who marries a Christian woman upon a Muslima? I said: May I be your ransom, and what is my saying before you? He said: You are to say (it) for by that my saying will be known. I said: it is not allowed to marry the Christian woman upon the Muslima and the non-Muslima. He said: And why? I said: Because of the saying of Allah `azza wa jalla “And do not marry the mushrik women until they believe.” He said: So what do you say about this ayat “And the chaste women of those who have been given the Book from before you” I said: His saying “And do not marry the mushrik women” abrogated this ayat. So he smiled, then was silent.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/marriage/marriage-to-a-dhimmi-woman

We find in 60:10

(bismillah)

íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ ÅöÐóÇ ÌóÇÁßõãõ ÇáúãõÄúãöäóÇÊõ ãõåóÇÌöÑóÇÊò ÝóÇãúÊóÍöäõæåõäøó Çááøóåõ ÃóÚúáóãõ ÈöÅöíãóÇäöåöäøó ÝóÅöäú ÚóáöãúÊõãõæåõäøó ãõÄúãöäóÇÊò ÝóáóÇ ÊóÑúÌöÚõæåõäøó Åöáóì ÇáúßõÝøóÇÑö áóÇ åõäøó Íöáøñ áøóåõãú æóáóÇ åõãú íóÍöáøõæäó áóåõäøó æóÂÊõæåõã ãøóÇ ÃóäÝóÞõæÇ æóáóÇ ÌõäóÇÍó Úóáóíúßõãú Ãóä ÊóäßöÍõæåõäøó ÅöÐóÇ ÂÊóíúÊõãõæåõäøó ÃõÌõæÑóåõäøó æóáóÇ ÊõãúÓößõæÇ ÈöÚöÕóãö ÇáúßóæóÇÝöÑö æóÇÓúÃóáõæÇ ãóÇ ÃóäÝóÞúÊõãú æóáúíóÓúÃóáõæÇ ãóÇ ÃóäÝóÞõæÇ Ðóáößõãú Íõßúãõ Çááøóåö íóÍúßõãõ Èóíúäóßõãú æóÇááøóåõ Úóáöíãñ Íóßöíãñ

O ye who believe! When believing women come unto you as fugitives, examine them. Allah is best aware of their faith. Then, if ye know them for true believers, send them not back unto the disbelievers. They are not lawful for the disbelievers, nor are the disbelievers lawful for them. And give the disbelievers that which they have spent (upon them). And it is no sin for you to marry such women when ye have given them their dues. And hold not to the ties of disbelieving women; and ask for (the return of) that which ye have spent; and let the disbelievers ask for that which they have spent. That is the judgment of Allah. He judgeth between you. Allah is Knower, Wise (60:10)

The term used here is "kawafir" (female kufar) rather than mushrik, which encompasses non-Muslims altogether and not just the pagan women. Some Sunni commentators will say that this was referring to the Muslim men letting go of their pagan women in hijra, but it is well known that these verses were revealed years after hijra during the treaty with the pagans.

So there you have it: marriage to Ahl al-Kitab has been abrogated by later verses.

Some 'ulema have disputed this issue, however, analyzing some ahadith where one would marry a woman from Ahl al-Kitab, and the Imams (as) not mentioning that it was forbidden. In these ahadith, they (as) would comment that marriage to Ahl al-Kitab would be an action of lower faith (makrooh) and not strictly haraam. Some scholars have rationalized both positions by saying that mut'a with Ahl al-Kitab is halaal, while permanent marriage is haraam. We also have some ahadith which say, do not marry a Christian or Jewish woman after you had married a Muslim woman. In this case, if one engaged in any type of marriage with a Muslim, he cannot marry an kitabi.

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"Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians"

First I would advise you, brother, to consult with your local elders on this question.

However, if I might remark, that it is lawful for a brother to take a Christian woman to wife.

This is how God has shown the limitations to the taking of a spouse. A sister, on the other hand, may not do so.

Some of the other posters have made some points, and the religion of the children is one that must be carefully considered well beforehand. So many think, in the fresh bloom of love, that all problems will easily be solved and so forth. God's guidance must be also sought in this case as in all aspects of our lives. 2:114

God would not have permitted it if it were deleterious to the conditions of a Muslim's life.

Remember that.

If, God willing, you do marry this woman, maintain the high standards expected of a Muslim man in marriage.

Marriage is the most serious thing a man will ever enter into in the social customs. His living of the religion is his key to a happy marriage. Always striving in the way of God.

May God guide you in the rightness of your decision. 28:56

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It's people like you who exacerbate the problem we have in our communities of too many single women. It's people like you who don't do the male part of the equation of hijab-- marrying a hijabi; yes this Christian woman seems more attractive-- but Muslim hijabis are just as beautiful, they're just covering up and avoiding sin like Allah commanded. Muslim females become more hesitant about wearing hijab because they think it will hinder their marriage (and I've known some girls who even stopped for this reason)-- and they are partially right! Forget about this lady and find yourself a Muslim woman.

I like the anger in this response. My contention is, how would I figure if a hijabi/non hijabi, Muslima/Momina is on the look out for a husband? Maybe she should wear a different colour hijab/shirt to send out the message. When competing with the skimpily clad, forward and easy types, I do concede that a hijabi is perhaps slightly handicapped with her chances of securing interest in herself.

Many a Muslim/Shia brother, out of sheer frustration of not being able to make any ground with our own, fall easy prey to the clutches of such predatory women. I hear that a popular joke among Palestinian youth whose families do not find them a spouse in time is: 'I'll marry an Israeli soldier'. And no kidding, for such young men driven into desperation by sheer lack of empathy from within their community, others become an option.

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I am dating a Christian woman with the hope of marriage in the near future. I am asking if it is okay to marry her, although she has different belief. When Allah gave Adam (as) Hawa as his mate, there was no ceremony. Also, Allah speaks of the Prophets Nuh (as), and Lut (as) as having bad wives. The Holy Quran is not clear on whether they (the wives) were mu'min or not. The woman I desire to marry is very spiritual and modest in character and dress. However, she believes that Isa (as) is her savior. She believes in Allah as the Creator, but not in His Tawhid. I welcome any comments on this topic.

According to most scholars, like Ayt Sistani, you can marry mutah a christian or a jewish woman, you can renew your mutah contract every time if you want to stay with her longer. You might find my answer confusing because some members are saying it's forbidden , so (although I'm a 100% sure of the answer I gave you) it's better if you contact(email is easier) your scholar/marja to get an authentic answer.

Here is the link to ask questions to Ayt Sistani's representative(s):

http://najaf.org/mail/index.php?l=ENG&to=ASK

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I like the anger in this response. My contention is, how would I figure if a hijabi/non hijabi, Muslima/Momina is on the look out for a husband? Maybe she should wear a different colour hijab/shirt to send out the message. When competing with the skimpily clad, forward and easy types, I do concede that a hijabi is perhaps slightly handicapped with her chances of securing interest in herself.

Many a Muslim/Shia brother, out of sheer frustration of not being able to make any ground with our own, fall easy prey to the clutches of such predatory women. I hear that a popular joke among Palestinian youth whose families do not find them a spouse in time is: 'I'll marry an Israeli soldier'. And no kidding, for such young men driven into desperation by sheer lack of empathy from within their community, others become an option.

Most Muslim women are ready by age 20, often even younger, so use age as your criterion for determining a hijabi's readiness for marriage. So go to youth events at the masjid, Muslim conferences, gatherings, and social events. Guys CAN take initiative (girls really can't as much), so they should. The problem is that everyone seems to wait on someone else to take initiative. You just need to find one person on the female side that can hook you up, so perhaps you can make friends with a married man who can then use his wife to arrange your matches. She might have friends looking to get married or you can ask her about particular girls that you are interested in.

You can also come up with an excuse to talk to a girl (be creative). (Heard of the American schoolgirl thing of dropping your pencil in front of a boy? Do something like that-- drop something in front of her.) Or you can ask for directions to ___ and say "Thank you, Sister ___, I'm sorry I didn't catch your name". And then inquire about her to your friend's wife. You get the idea-- I know that it's hard to meet someone in our society so be creative, you're a guy so you CAN do things like that. Speaking from personal experience, (some) single women would not be opposed to someone even coming up to them and talking to them-- but I'm sure that doesn't apply to all single females.

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It's people like you who exacerbate the problem we have in our communities of too many single women. It's people like you who don't do the male part of the equation of hijab-- marrying a hijabi; yes this Christian woman seems more attractive-- but Muslim hijabis are just as beautiful,

I think you misunderstand the situation. You have a case of two people who get along with each other, to the extent that they see marriage as an option. The question to ask is how they arrived at this position.

Clearly the Muslim party was not averse to the lifestyle and opinions of the Christian and clearly the Christian did not find the lifestyle of the Muslim to be incompatible with theirs.

Now speaking in general terms I find it hard to believe that someone who is very observant in their Islam would get on with or be get-on-able with a non-Muslim. All sorts of issues would arise, halal/haram food, avoiding certain types of movies, the need to do prayers, specific issues in Muharram and Ramadan and so on.

You get the picture?

I would hazard that such a male would actually find a hijabi a cramp on their lifestyle. Perhaps a very easy going/liberal Muslim woman may be an alternative, but an Hijabi? I don't think so.

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I think you misunderstand the situation. You have a case of two people who get along with each other, to the extent that they see marriage as an option. The question to ask is how they arrived at this position.

Clearly the Muslim party was not averse to the lifestyle and opinions of the Christian and clearly the Christian did not find the lifestyle of the Muslim to be incompatible with theirs.

Now speaking in general terms I find it hard to believe that someone who is very observant in their Islam would get on with or be get-on-able with a non-Muslim. All sorts of issues would arise, halal/haram food, avoiding certain types of movies, the need to do prayers, specific issues in Muharram and Ramadan and so on.

You get the picture?

I would hazard that such a male would actually find a hijabi a cramp on their lifestyle. Perhaps a very easy going/liberal Muslim woman may be an alternative, but an Hijabi? I don't think so.

First, let us clarify to our brother in faith that according to the fatwas of the Marajae, it is permissible to perform a mutah with a Christian. The mutah could be for a 100 years, 50 years or whatever, so he doesn't have to keep renewing it every so often.

Speaking of being incompatible with a hijabi if you are compatible with a secular Christian is perhaps making a lot of broad generalisations. Some Shia know how to charm a broad spectrum of female types without really compromising their religion one bit.

Edited by Scimitar
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First, let us clarify to our brother in faith that according to the fatwas of the Marajae, it is permissible to perform a mutah with a Christian. The mutah could be for a 100 years, 50 years or whatever, so he doesn't have to keep renewing it every so often.

Speaking of being incompatible with a hijabi if you are compatible with a secular Christian is perhaps making a lot of broad generalisations. Some Shia know how to charm a broad spectrum of female types without really compromising their religion one bit.

I'd argue that the dynamics of a relationship that is heading towards a nikah (between Christian and Muslim) are radically different to those involving mutah between the two parties.

The Muslim who offers Mutah to a non-Muslim is making it very clear that a relationship is on, but only on his terms. Regardless of his 'charming' abilities this person is giving a very clear signal to the other party about his adherence to Muslim practice. The Muslim who agrees to nikah is making it very clear that they are willing to compromise.

Nevertheless there are clear risks even with the mutah option. There was a thread not so long ago from someone who had been in a mutah relationship, at the end of it the girl was willing to walk away, he was finding it very difficult to do so and was considering the compromise route.

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I think you misunderstand the situation. You have a case of two people who get along with each other, to the extent that they see marriage as an option. The question to ask is how they arrived at this position.

Clearly the Muslim party was not averse to the lifestyle and opinions of the Christian and clearly the Christian did not find the lifestyle of the Muslim to be incompatible with theirs.

Now speaking in general terms I find it hard to believe that someone who is very observant in their Islam would get on with or be get-on-able with a non-Muslim. All sorts of issues would arise, halal/haram food, avoiding certain types of movies, the need to do prayers, specific issues in Muharram and Ramadan and so on.

You get the picture?

I would hazard that such a male would actually find a hijabi a cramp on their lifestyle. Perhaps a very easy going/liberal Muslim woman may be an alternative, but an Hijabi? I don't think so.

Not at all; I completely understand the situation. There are some pretty liberal hijabis out there. So perhaps the hijabi that he marries may be just a little more observant than him, but as long as long as he is willing to become more religious, it should work out fine. I know of a man whose first wife was a non-Muslim, they divorced, and then he married a hijabi with whom he raised children to adulthood.

Edited by BabyBeaverIsAKit
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I'd argue that the dynamics of a relationship that is heading towards a nikah (between Christian and Muslim) are radically different to those involving mutah between the two parties.

The Muslim who offers Mutah to a non-Muslim is making it very clear that a relationship is on, but only on his terms. Regardless of his 'charming' abilities this person is giving a very clear signal to the other party about his adherence to Muslim practice. The Muslim who agrees to nikah is making it very clear that they are willing to compromise.

As I understand it, a 'marriage' between a Muslim man and an Alh Al Kitab woman can only be a 'mutah' and not a 'nikah', within the Shia fiqh. ("Some scholars have rationalized both positions by saying that mut'a with Ahl al-Kitab is halaal, while permanent marriage is haraam." Qa'im- in an earlier post in this thread). So, the relationship has to be 'on' on his terms anyway. If the woman is not agreeable to this offer of 'mutah', there can be no relationship, as long as the Muslim man is loyal to his faith and wants the marital union to be a religiously sanctioned one. If he is prepared to compromise on the rules of engagement as laid down in the Shia fiqh, he might as well forget about the so called 'nikah', as it is not permissible in the first place, with her.

Nevertheless there are clear risks even with the mutah option. There was a thread not so long ago from someone who had been in a mutah relationship, at the end of it the girl was willing to walk away, he was finding it very difficult to do so and was considering the compromise route.

It all depends on how strong a Muslim he is. If he suspects that the woman in question is a threat to his religion, he should be man enough to let her go (to Hell). No woman, however pretty, however addictive, is worth trading one's Islam for. Allah provides from avenues one never expected. A couple of Alh al Kitab women I was involved with were prepared to adopt Islam as their religion if I proposed permanent marriage. However I chose to err on the side of caution, let them go, in the hope of meeting a true blue ready made Momina. But alas, our women sure know how to play hide and seek.

Edited by Scimitar
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There are some pretty liberal hijabis out there.

Just because a woman is a hijabi, she isn't medieval, fanatic, uneducated, backward or Al Qaeda. Yes indeed, there are some very liberal and sophisticated hijabis out there who could put a sassy Western lass to shame in every department of womanhood. Lucky is a man who can accost and engage them. I think it is far easier to take a rejection from an anonymous random chic you meet in a secular place than from a Muslim girl or woman who you are likely to encounter repeatedly in a Mosque.

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Just because a woman is a hijabi, she isn't medieval, fanatic, uneducated, backward or Al Qaeda.

And I didn't imply that she was medieval, fanatic, uneducated, backward, or Al Qaeda. My point was just that hijabis are not all to be painted with the same brush; she may be religious in one aspect of her practice, but irreligious enough in other aspects so as to be compatible with a guy like this.

I think it is far easier to take a rejection from an anonymous random chic you meet in a secular place than from a Muslim girl or woman who you are likely to encounter repeatedly in a Mosque.

And how/where exactly do you think he met this Christian woman? Most people meet other people through work, or school, or other places that they frequent regularly. He might still encounter her repeatedly wherever he met her.

Edited by BabyBeaverIsAKit
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And I didn't imply that she was medieval, fanatic, uneducated, backward, or Al Qaeda. My point was just that hijabis are not all to be painted with the same brush; she may be religious in one aspect of her practice, but irreligious enough in other aspects so as to be compatible with a guy like this.

Why are you on the defensive? I never implied you ever suggested that. I am in fact backing your argument.

And how/where exactly do you think he met this Christian woman? Most people meet other people through work, or school, or other places that they frequent regularly. He might still encounter her repeatedly wherever he met her.

Well maybe. I could be totally wrong. I just have this sense that Muslim guys are perhaps a little self conscious in a Mosque/Islamic Centre environment, as opposed to their school or workplace or social hangouts. You just don't want unnecessary gossip, scandals and such stuff you can do without, because it rings louder in your own cave. While you can be yourself elsewhere, where your failures don't come back so repeatedly to haunt you. Even if they did, there it is the done thing, unlike in the Mosque, where the 'I am holier than thou' types have created such a fake puritan value system. Just a trend of thought. Again, I could be wrong.

Edited by Scimitar
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Best wishes on your marriage, bro.

I have always heard that marriage to ahlul kitab is entirely lawful (hence all this stuff about how a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman, but a Muslimah could not marry a Christian man--otherwise, why the debate about this? Silly). AFAIK, it's generally considered better (or only acceptable, in some cases) if the person in question is Unitarian.

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Why are you on the defensive? I never implied you ever suggested that. I am in fact backing your argument.

Okay, I wasn't sure.

Well maybe. I could be totally wrong. I just have this sense that Muslim guys are perhaps a little self conscious in a Mosque/Islamic Centre environment, as opposed to their school or workplace or social hangouts. You just don't want unnecessary gossip, scandals and such stuff you can do without, because it rings louder in your own cave. While you can be yourself elsewhere, where your failures don't come back so repeatedly to haunt you. Even if they did, there it is the done thing, unlike in the Mosque, where the 'I am holier than thou' types have created such a fake puritan value system. Just a trend of thought. Again, I could be wrong.

Yes there will always be people like that-- but those are the people who didn't have any trouble getting married. They're the ones who feel entitled to a "holier than thou" attitude. Once people get married, they forget the desperation and hunger for marriage that was felt before (which would also explain why some married people who would be in a position to help arrange matches just don't, even though they themselves were helped by people in the community). Anyway, the point is, yes they exist, but they are more forgiving of males being slightly forward (as opposed to females).

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Okay, I wasn't sure.

Yes there will always be people like that-- but those are the people who didn't have any trouble getting married. They're the ones who feel entitled to a "holier than thou" attitude. Once people get married, they forget the desperation and hunger for marriage that was felt before (which would also explain why some married people who would be in a position to help arrange matches just don't, even though they themselves were helped by people in the community). Anyway, the point is, yes they exist, but they are more forgiving of males being slightly forward (as opposed to females).

I share your pain. May Allah Help the oppressed.

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I am dating a Christian woman with the hope of marriage in the near future. I am asking if it is okay to marry her, although she has different belief. When Allah gave Adam as.gif Hawa as his mate, there was no ceremony. Also, ah speaks of the Prophets Nuh as.gif, and Lut as.gif as having bad wives. The Holy Quran is not clear on whether they (the wives) were mu'min or not. The woman I desire to marry is very spiritual and modest in character and dress. However, she believes that Isa as.gif is her savior. She believes in Allah as the Creator, but not in His Tawhid. I welcome any comments on this topic.

Allah has permitted marriage to Jewish and Christian women who are chaste.

It is wrong for these people who are saying that because she believes in trinity that she is not "people of the book", because people of the book even at the time of the prophet believed in Trinity, triniy is mentioned in the Qur'an, so if this idea came after the prophet saws, it would not be in Quran

this is just a tactic for people to turn you off marrying christian women because of preference to marry muslim women, however these people should be careful in forbidding what Allah has permitted

you can marry, but you should both repent of zina before you marry, and talk about your future lives, whether you would be compatible

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It may be permitted, but it will definitely make your life a heck of a lot more difficult.

this is just a tactic for people to turn you off marrying christian women because of preference to marry muslim women, however these people should be careful in forbidding what Allah has permitted

Of course!! Who else will marry our Muslim women, seeing as Muslim women can only marry Muslim men?? He SHOULD do his duty and marry a Muslim woman.

People need to be careful about putting words into the mouths of the party that advocates marriage to Muslim women. None of us are forbidding what Allah has permitted; telling him to marry a Muslim woman isn't saying that marrying someone who qualifies as "People of the book" or I guess "Person of the book" is haraam, just that it's not preferable; we are passing no rulings and do not claim to be passing any.

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Allah has permitted marriage to Jewish and Christian women who are chaste.

It is wrong for these people who are saying that because she believes in trinity that she is not "people of the book", because people of the book even at the time of the prophet believed in Trinity, triniy is mentioned in the Qur'an, so if this idea came after the prophet saws, it would not be in Quran

this is just a tactic for people to turn you off marrying christian women because of preference to marry muslim women, however these people should be careful in forbidding what Allah has permitted

you can marry, but you should both repent of zina before you marry, and talk about your future lives, whether you would be compatible

Quran says very clearly that those who say "Allah is one person of the three are not believers."

And Allah has clearly forbidden marriage whit non believers.

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perhaps you should concern yourself with ending this haram dating relationship.

the women of Ahlul Kitaab lawful for the Muslim man to marry must be chaste, having a relationship before marraige has major implications on her status as someone who is chaste, and therefore may render is impermissible for you to marry her. wa Allahu 3alaam

Edited by Ukht
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Most Muslim women are ready by age 20, often even younger, so use age as your criterion for determining a hijabi's readiness for marriage. So go to youth events at the masjid, Muslim conferences, gatherings, and social events. Guys CAN take initiative (girls really can't as much), so they should. The problem is that everyone seems to wait on someone else to take initiative. You just need to find one person on the female side that can hook you up, so perhaps you can make friends with a married man who can then use his wife to arrange your matches. She might have friends looking to get married or you can ask her about particular girls that you are interested in.

You can also come up with an excuse to talk to a girl (be creative). (Heard of the American schoolgirl thing of dropping your pencil in front of a boy? Do something like that-- drop something in front of her.) Or you can ask for directions to ___ and say "Thank you, Sister ___, I'm sorry I didn't catch your name". And then inquire about her to your friend's wife. You get the idea-- I know that it's hard to meet someone in our society so be creative, you're a guy so you CAN do things like that. Speaking from personal experience, (some) single women would not be opposed to someone even coming up to them and talking to them-- but I'm sure that doesn't apply to all single females.

Why should always guys take the initiative? And why guys, in relation to the matter, can do a lot but the girls can't? I think it is time our hijabis break up with this nonsensical feudal ethics and embrace Islamic and moral codes on equal basis. You have the [classical if not hoary] example of Khadjiah. Who will take the first step to introduce change if not our hijabis - especially those who had the chance of doing their life in a modern society? I think that time is gone when girls sat their, so to speak, and waited for the proposals at their doorsteps.

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