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Son Of Adam

Wahabis Beleive God Has A Body?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Hey brothers & sisters, ive been hearing that the Wahabi's/Salafies beleive that Allah Almighty has a body, with eyes, ears, hands etc, because they misinterpret some of the versees of the Quran.

Does anyone have any references from their books by Ibn Tamiyah etc about having such beleifs?

Wa Salam

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I heard a lecture by the alim at my mosque of a special book by Ibn Tayymiyyah. The book, of poetry if I recall, describes the jism of Allah and it's beauty. Ibn Taymiyyah is a mujassim. Well I won't call mujassim a kafir, I have no authority to do so. I can find out the title of the book.

On a related note, you can listen to some lectures by Sheikh Dimasqiyah (look him up on youtube) where he quoted 75:23 (ila rabbiha nadhira) (looking at their Lord). And he said people who believe that Allah can't be seen by their eyes have a problem with the Quran.

The person who asked the question to the Sheikh should have asked him17:72 wa man kaana fi hadhihi a'ma fa hu wa fi al akhirah a'ma wa dhollu sabeela (and whosoever is blind in this, he shall also be blind in the hereafter, and more erring from the way). So what about the blind then?

You would wonder, what happend to Marhum Sheikh Bin Baz then right? Dhollu Sabeela for him?

Sheikh Dimasqiyah is wahhabi, he debates Sunnis (you can find them arguing with him furiously). I'm not sure how they determine which ayah is muhkam or mutashabih.

Edited by 145_turbo_16V

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Do either of you two know that Ibn Taymiyyah attacks mujassimeen?

Yes, Allah has one eye (ayn) which is mentioned in the Quran and dajjal has one eye (ayn) too!

Then, again the Quran mentions that Allah has two eyes (aynain).

But, then the Quran mentions that Allah has three or more eyes (ayun).

And, when Allah sits on His Throne, and rest His feet on His Khursi, the cushion on the throne makes sound from Allah weights.

AstafgurAllah!

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There are many books refuting him. I'm going to read one translated by Dr. Haddad (originally written as a refutation to some of Ibn Taymiyyah's work by Ibn Jahbal). I'm not sure why Ibn Taymiyyah attacks the mujassimeen when he says things like Allah is above his throne literally (haqiqatan).

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^ It is because when Ibn Taymiyah attacks mujasimeen he is attacking those that say that Allah has hands like our hands and has eyes like our eyes. The sort of tajseem that he is attacking is a "more direct" tajseem, in the eyes of Shias. On the other hand, Ibn Taymiyah believes that the hands of Allah are not like our hands and the eyes of Allah are not like our eyes. You should also be aware that this "view" of Ibn Taymiyah isn't his own "innovation", but has been accepted and documented by very early scholars of Sunni ideology like Al-Lalika'ee, Al-Khalal, and Al-Darqutni.

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^ It is because when Ibn Taymiyah attacks mujasimeen he is attacking those that say that Allah has hands like our hands and has eyes like our eyes. The sort of tajseem that he is attacking is a "more direct" tajseem, in the eyes of Shias. On the other hand, Ibn Taymiyah believes that the hands of Allah are not like our hands and the eyes of Allah are not like our eyes. You should also be aware that this "view" of Ibn Taymiyah isn't his own "innovation", but has been accepted and documented by very early scholars of Sunni ideology like Al-Lalika'ee, Al-Khalal, and Al-Darqutni.

Why go into circles as usual. Stand up for you aqeda and say that you believe that God has body.

It is not material if His body is like yours. What is material that you believe that God has body (astafgurAllah).

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u shudnt make up things against quran and Allah

The Semitic languages have singular, dual and plural (three of more). Where as the English plural is two or more.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Hey brothers & sisters, ive been hearing that the Wahabi's/Salafies beleive that Allah Almighty has a body, with eyes, ears, hands etc, because they misinterpret some of the versees of the Quran.

Does anyone have any references from their books by Ibn Tamiyah etc about having such beleifs?

Wa Salam

(salam)

Here We Can See About Salafis God !

ÍÏËäÇ : ÃÈæÈßÑ ÇáäíÓÇÈæÑí ¡ ÍÏËäí : ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÍäÈá (Ñ) ¡ ÍÏËäí : ÃÈí ¡ ÍÏËäÇ : ÑæÍ ¡ ÍÏËäÇ : ÅÈä ÌÑíÌ ¡ ÃÎÈÑäí : ÃÈæ ÇáÒÈíÑ ¡ Ãäå ÓãÚ ÌÇÈÑÇðð ¡ íÓÃá Úä ÇáæÑæÏ ¿ ¡ ÝÞÇá : äÍä íæã ÇáÞíÇãÉ Úáì ßÐÇ æßÐÇ ÅäÙÑ - Ãí Ðáß ÝæÞÇáäÇÓ - ÞÇá : ÝÊÏÚì ÇáÃãã ÈÃæËÇäåÇ æãÇ ßÇäÊ ÊÚÈÏ ÇáÃæá ÝÇáÃæá ¡ Ëã íÃÊíäÇ ÑÈäÇ ÚÒ æÌá ÈÚÏ Ðáß ¡ ÝíÞæá : ãä ÊäÊÙÑæä ¿ ÝäÞæá : ääÊÙÑ ÑÈäÇ ÚÒ æÌá ¡ ÝíÞæá ÚÒ æÌá : ÃäÇ ÑÈßã ¡ ÝíÞæáæä : ÍÊì ääÙÑ Åáíß ¡ ÝíÊÌáì áåã ÊÈÇÑß æÊÚÇáì íÖÍß ÓãÚÊ ÇáäÈí (Õ) : íÞæá : ÍÊì ÊÈÏæ áåÇÊå ¡ æÃÖÑÇÓå ÞÇá : ÝíäØáÞ Èåã æíÊÈÚæäå ¡ æíÚØí ßá ÅäÓÇä ãäåã ãäÇÝÞ Ãæ ãÄãä äæÑÇðð ¡ Ëã íÊÈÚæäå Úáì ÌÓÑ Ìåäã æÚáíå ßáÇáíÈ ¡ æÍÓß ÊÃÎÐ ãä ÔÇÁ Çááå ¡ Ëã íØÝà äæÑ ÇáãäÇÝÞíä ¡ Ëã íäÌæÇ ÇáãÄãäæä ¡ ÝíäÌæÇ Ãæá ÒãÑÉ æÌæååã ßÇáÞãÑ áíáÉ ÇáÈÏÑ ÓÈÚæä ÇáÝÇðð áÇ íÍÇÓÈæä Ëã ÇáÐíä íáæäåã ßÃÖæÇÁ äÌã Ýí ÇáÓãÇÁ ¡ Ëã ßÐáß ¡ Ëã ÊÍá ÇáÔÝÇÚÉ ÍÊì íÎÑÌ ãä ÇáäÇÑ ãä ÞÇá : áÇ Åáå ÅáÇø Çááå æßÇä Ýí ÞáÈå ãä ÎíÑ ãÇ íÒä ÔÚíÑÉ ¡ ÝíÌÚáæä ÈÝäÇÁ ÇáÌäÉ ¡ æíÌÚá Ãåá ÇáÌäÉ íÑÔæä Úáíåã ÇáãÇÁ ÍÊì íäÈÊæÇ äÈÇÊ ÇáÔíÁ Ýí ÇáÓíá ¡ Ëã íÓÃá ÍÊì íÌÚá áå ÇáÏäíÇ æÚÔÑÉ ÃãËÇáåÇ ãÚåÇ

Red Part Says: Allah Will Come To People And Ask Them,Who Are You Waiting For So People Will Say We Are Waiting For Our God So He Says I Am Your God,So They Say Let Us Look At You,So He Appears To Them Laughing Until His Molars( back teeth) And Tonsils Appear..........

Astaghfirullah

(wasalam)

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(salam)

This article is pretty interesting: http://www.correctislamicfaith.com/ibntaymiyyasbeliefs.htm

Lord Botta you said: '' On the other hand, Ibn Taymiyah believes that the hands of Allah are not like our hands and the eyes of Allah are not like our eye''. Please explain more?

Wa Salam.

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can u show the dual form inside of quran? yes/no? cuz this is a nasibi logic flaw so don't lie on quran like this. This you said:

Yes, Allah has one eye (ayn) which is mentioned in the Quran and dajjal has one eye (ayn) too!

Then, again the Quran mentions that Allah has two eyes (aynain).

But, then the Quran mentions that Allah has three or more eyes (ayun).

Please show where in quran you read aynain unless u made it up in stupid joke/mockery. Even the nasibis own scholars never made such a big lie to the quran. if u dont know what ur saying than u shud better just not say it bcuz ppl can use u and ppl like u to mock Imams AS and our believes...

(salam)

This article is pretty interesting: http://www.correctislamicfaith.com/ibntaymiyyasbeliefs.htm

Lord Botta you said: '' On the other hand, Ibn Taymiyah believes that the hands of Allah are not like our hands and the eyes of Allah are not like our eye''. Please explain more?

Wa Salam.

this is ther mujasimi religion. They like to say theyr not mujassim so theyll say "clocks have hands too" and etc. but really any1 can see bcuz clock is still a machine so its still jism with parts to it. Or they say "hand of time" but time is also something so they have nowhere to run.

Edited by hardtoforget

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(salam)

What makes me laugh is hearing that Dajjal has literally one eye. Too me that sounds pretty scary, don't think hes gonna have any followers to stand by him

Wa Salam

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(salam)

What makes me laugh is hearing that Dajjal has literally one eye. Too me that sounds pretty scary, don't think hes gonna have any followers to stand by him

Wa Salam

Salam brother,

Thanks, and I agree! :)

As the Christians would say:

Alleluyah! Alleluiah! Halleluiah! Hallelujah! Allaluiah!

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Here we go: to explain what Allah says we have people coming dangerously close to denying ayaat. What Allah says he has, I confirm always keeping in mind "lam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad" and "laysa kamithlihi shay".

Edited by this_guy

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th.fb21fc51de.jpg th.0d15d029dc.jpg th.e1ecef419a.jpg th.b2ea06a334.jpg

The book "İbtalut-Taavilat li Akhbaris-Sifat". The author is Abu Yala bin Muhammad bin Hussain bin al-Farrah. Look at page 143.

Qatadah narrated from Ikrimah, and Ikrimah from Ibn Abbas: Rasulallah said: "I saw Allah in the green garden without the beard, waved hairs as young boy.

Page 144.

Abu Bakr Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Sadagah al-Baghdadi said: "If somebody don't believe in Ikrimah's hadith he is ZINDIGH"

Abu Zarah ar-Razee said: "If somebody don't believe in this hadith he is MOTAZILEE."

Page 145.

Ahmad bin Hanbal said (about this hadith): "If somebody dout in this hadith or in smth. in hadith is Jahmee. His shahadah and greeting with him are not acceptable,. "

If smth. wrong with translation please correct it. Because it is not my translation.

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th.fb21fc51de.jpg th.0d15d029dc.jpg th.e1ecef419a.jpg th.b2ea06a334.jpg

The book "İbtalut-Taavilat li Akhbaris-Sifat". The author is Abu Yala bin Muhammad bin Hussain bin al-Farrah. Look at page 143.

Qatadah narrated from Ikrimah, and Ikrimah from Ibn Abbas: Rasulallah said: "I saw Allah in the green garden without the beard, waved hairs as young boy.

Page 144.

Abu Bakr Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Sadagah al-Baghdadi said: "If somebody don't believe in Ikrimah's hadith he is ZINDIGH"

Abu Zarah ar-Razee said: "If somebody don't believe in this hadith he is MOTAZILEE."

Page 145.

Ahmad bin Hanbal said (about this hadith): "If somebody dout in this hadith or in smth. in hadith is Jahmee. His shahadah and greeting with him are not acceptable,. "

If smth. wrong with translation please correct it. Because it is not my translation.

The author Abu Ya'la of that book doesn't represent the 'Aqîdah of Salafi's, if it's incorrect otherwise brother Botta is free to correct. Also Imâm Ahmad and Abu Zur'ah al-Râzi (رحمهما الله) are talking about the hadîth 'رأيت ربي عز وجل' without the addition of beard, young boy (أعوذ بالله) which is stated on the same page if you would take the time to look into it.

Edited by Abu'l Fadl

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Hey brothers & sisters, ive been hearing that the Wahabi's/Salafies beleive that Allah Almighty has a body, with eyes, ears, hands etc, because they misinterpret some of the versees of the Quran.

Does anyone have any references from their books by Ibn Tamiyah etc about having such beleifs?

Wa Salam

LOL - And they accuse us of shirk :lol:-

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Lord Botta you said: '' On the other hand, Ibn Taymiyah believes that the hands of Allah are not like our hands and the eyes of Allah are not like our eye''. Please explain more?

To keep it short... a clocks have hands as well, but they are not like the hands of man. They are simply called so because they "point" at time.

If you are seriously interested, I could point you to an article or two.

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LOL - And they accuse us of shirk :lol:-

If they do that with the 'Ulemâ of Twelver Shi'ism, especially those specialized in kalâm, then rightly so. The belief that humans are creators of their actions is shirk without doubt which is a belief borrowed from the Mu'tazilah.

Edited by Abu'l Fadl

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To keep it short... a clocks have hands as well, but they are not like the hands of man. They are simply called so because they "point" at time.

If you are seriously interested, I could point you to an article or two.

Is it a physical hand or a metaphorical hand? When I mean physical I'm not restricting it to a human like hand. I think this is what you mean right? It's really a PHYSICAL HAND, but the only question is maybe it looks like the hand of the clock or the hand or a man, etc. Right? but at the end of it you do believe in a physical hand, notwithstanding the real shape or dimensions.

However from what I know the hands are just metaphorical.

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(salam)

Here We Can See About Salafis God !

ÍÏËäÇ : ÃÈæÈßÑ ÇáäíÓÇÈæÑí ¡ ÍÏËäí : ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÍäÈá (Ñ) ¡ ÍÏËäí : ÃÈí ¡ ÍÏËäÇ : ÑæÍ ¡ ÍÏËäÇ : ÅÈä ÌÑíÌ ¡ ÃÎÈÑäí : ÃÈæ ÇáÒÈíÑ ¡ Ãäå ÓãÚ ÌÇÈÑÇðð ¡ íÓÃá Úä ÇáæÑæÏ ¿ ¡ ÝÞÇá : äÍä íæã ÇáÞíÇãÉ Úáì ßÐÇ æßÐÇ ÅäÙÑ - Ãí Ðáß ÝæÞÇáäÇÓ - ÞÇá : ÝÊÏÚì ÇáÃãã ÈÃæËÇäåÇ æãÇ ßÇäÊ ÊÚÈÏ ÇáÃæá ÝÇáÃæá ¡ Ëã íÃÊíäÇ ÑÈäÇ ÚÒ æÌá ÈÚÏ Ðáß ¡ ÝíÞæá : ãä ÊäÊÙÑæä ¿ ÝäÞæá : ääÊÙÑ ÑÈäÇ ÚÒ æÌá ¡ ÝíÞæá ÚÒ æÌá : ÃäÇ ÑÈßã ¡ ÝíÞæáæä : ÍÊì ääÙÑ Åáíß ¡ ÝíÊÌáì áåã ÊÈÇÑß æÊÚÇáì íÖÍß ÓãÚÊ ÇáäÈí (Õ) : íÞæá : ÍÊì ÊÈÏæ áåÇÊå ¡ æÃÖÑÇÓå ÞÇá : ÝíäØáÞ Èåã æíÊÈÚæäå ¡ æíÚØí ßá ÅäÓÇä ãäåã ãäÇÝÞ Ãæ ãÄãä äæÑÇðð ¡ Ëã íÊÈÚæäå Úáì ÌÓÑ Ìåäã æÚáíå ßáÇáíÈ ¡ æÍÓß ÊÃÎÐ ãä ÔÇÁ Çááå ¡ Ëã íØÝà äæÑ ÇáãäÇÝÞíä ¡ Ëã íäÌæÇ ÇáãÄãäæä ¡ ÝíäÌæÇ Ãæá ÒãÑÉ æÌæååã ßÇáÞãÑ áíáÉ ÇáÈÏÑ ÓÈÚæä ÇáÝÇðð áÇ íÍÇÓÈæä Ëã ÇáÐíä íáæäåã ßÃÖæÇÁ äÌã Ýí ÇáÓãÇÁ ¡ Ëã ßÐáß ¡ Ëã ÊÍá ÇáÔÝÇÚÉ ÍÊì íÎÑÌ ãä ÇáäÇÑ ãä ÞÇá : áÇ Åáå ÅáÇø Çááå æßÇä Ýí ÞáÈå ãä ÎíÑ ãÇ íÒä ÔÚíÑÉ ¡ ÝíÌÚáæä ÈÝäÇÁ ÇáÌäÉ ¡ æíÌÚá Ãåá ÇáÌäÉ íÑÔæä Úáíåã ÇáãÇÁ ÍÊì íäÈÊæÇ äÈÇÊ ÇáÔíÁ Ýí ÇáÓíá ¡ Ëã íÓÃá ÍÊì íÌÚá áå ÇáÏäíÇ æÚÔÑÉ ÃãËÇáåÇ ãÚåÇ

Red Part Says: Allah Will Come To People And Ask Them,Who Are You Waiting For So People Will Say We Are Waiting For Our God So He Says I Am Your God,So They Say Let Us Look At You,So He Appears To Them Laughing Until His Molars( back teeth) And Tonsils Appear..........

Astaghfirullah

(wasalam)

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=7826

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Is it a physical hand or a metaphorical hand? When I mean physical I'm not restricting it to a human like hand. I think this is what you mean right? It's really a PHYSICAL HAND, but the only question is maybe it looks like the hand of the clock or the hand or a man, etc. Right? but at the end of it you do believe in a physical hand, notwithstanding the real shape or dimensions.

However from what I know the hands are just metaphorical.

I have no clue regarding the shape or dimensions of the hands of Allah. However, you can rest assured that we don't believe that it is like the hands of man or a clock.

Allah says about Himself, "Laysa ka-mithlihi shay'e."

42:11 (Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer.)

As you can see, He affirms it for Himself that He hears and that He sees. However, He says that "Naught is as His likeness". This implies that He hears and sees in a different way than we do. This can be applied to everything that He describes Himself with. His hands are not like ours, and His eyes are not like ours.

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If they do that with the 'Ulemâ of Twelver Shi'ism, especially those specialized in kalâm, then rightly so. The belief that humans are creators of their actions is shirk without doubt which is a belief borrowed from the Mu'tazilah.

Shia's have lost their God but don't worry they have the Imaams!!!

The Shia belief about Allah & His Attributes is shaped by their Neo-platonic concepts derived from their philosophical (Muta’zili, Ashar’i) forefathers. Allah (the Most High) according to their beliefs, is lost somewhere between their intellect and the limitations of universal matter. Take a look at the ambiguous Lord in the Shi’i beliefs:

• The dhaat (essence) of Allah

He has no essence, He does not comprehend by means of the five senses....

He has no qualities (attributes), all of His attributes & actions of fi’liyya (action) are rejected as this according to metaphysics affirms He is finite and not limitless, vision cannot be possible for Allah because it does not fit in with their reasoning, therefore God doesn’t Exist nor does He Doesn’t Exist, His Being goes beyond all linguistic concepts and is beyond all knowledge. (from Shi’i sources)

• Shi’i have a conditional belief in His Will – only if it is connected to Al Adl, He is not truly the creator of all things (ie. Humans create evil - it’s not God)

• His Hands, Face, Eyes,

Well again the Shi’i say these are not what God meant in the Quran (Although He is the Most Perfect in His Speech) such terms are misleading according to the shi’i scholars who have a supreme intellect and know what God meant hence:

It is the Imams who are the Proof (hujja), the Gate (bab), the Tongue (lisan), the Face (wajh) and the Eye (ayn) of Allah on His creation... the executors of the ALL the affairs (wuluh al amr) of Allah among His creation... (it’s a pity the Hujja has been absent for his divine duty for over 1000 years)

Everything will perish except the Face of Allah (28:88) is the Imaams. (see your local bookstore for a book called al Kafi)

What follows from their tahreef (distortion) of the Quranic ayah's pertaining to Allah's Attributes is that:

1. Allah is not worshipped correctly due to such an unclear picture of Allah Azwajjal and He is Free from what they associate With HIM. As the shia don’t know their Lord they don’t Worship Him, Invoke Him, Fear Him, Love Him, put their trust in Him as has been ordered in the divine revelation. Much of their worship and hopes are directed to their Imams (ra).

2. Many of the rites of Islam are forsaken as Shi’ites give preference to their mythological stories over the Word of Allah. This can be seen from their obsession with the glorification and remembrance of their Imams (ra) and certain historical events from the past. For example:

In Shia’ism it is preferred to make pilgrimage to Kerbala over Masjid al Harram although their is no mention of the former in the Qur’an. This can be attributed to the shia belief that the Qur’an is created as i mentioned earlier that they reject that Allah does not comprehend by means of the five senses..... Therefore Allah’s Speech is negated and so is the significance of the Quran as this can be seen from their preference of the stories of the Imams over the stories of the Prophets mentioned in the Quran...

to be continued.......

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Shia's have lost their God but don't worry they have the Imaams!!!

The Shia belief about Allah & His Attributes is shaped by their Neo-platonic concepts derived from their philosophical (Muta’zili, Ashar’i) forefathers. Allah (the Most High) according to their beliefs, is lost somewhere between their intellect and the limitations of universal matter. Take a look at the ambiguous Lord in the Shi’i beliefs:

• The dhaat (essence) of Allah

He has no essence, He does not comprehend by means of the five senses....

He has no qualities (attributes), all of His attributes & actions of fi’liyya (action) are rejected as this according to metaphysics affirms He is finite and not limitless, vision cannot be possible for Allah because it does not fit in with their reasoning, therefore God doesn’t Exist nor does He Doesn’t Exist, His Being goes beyond all linguistic concepts and is beyond all knowledge. (from Shi’i sources)

• Shi’i have a conditional belief in His Will – only if it is connected to Al Adl, He is not truly the creator of all things (ie. Humans create evil - it’s not God)

• His Hands, Face, Eyes,

Well again the Shi’i say these are not what God meant in the Quran (Although He is the Most Perfect in His Speech) such terms are misleading according to the shi’i scholars who have a supreme intellect and know what God meant hence:

It is the Imams who are the Proof (hujja), the Gate (bab), the Tongue (lisan), the Face (wajh) and the Eye (ayn) of Allah on His creation... the executors of the ALL the affairs (wuluh al amr) of Allah among His creation... (it’s a pity the Hujja has been absent for his divine duty for over 1000 years)

Everything will perish except the Face of Allah (28:88) is the Imaams. (see your local bookstore for a book called al Kafi)

What follows from their tahreef (distortion) of the Quranic ayah's pertaining to Allah's Attributes is that:

1. Allah is not worshipped correctly due to such an unclear picture of Allah Azwajjal and He is Free from what they associate With HIM. As the shia don’t know their Lord they don’t Worship Him, Invoke Him, Fear Him, Love Him, put their trust in Him as has been ordered in the divine revelation. Much of their worship and hopes are directed to their Imams (ra).

2. Many of the rites of Islam are forsaken as Shi’ites give preference to their mythological stories over the Word of Allah. This can be seen from their obsession with the glorification and remembrance of their Imams (ra) and certain historical events from the past. For example:

In Shia’ism it is preferred to make pilgrimage to Kerbala over Masjid al Harram although their is no mention of the former in the Qur’an. This can be attributed to the shia belief that the Qur’an is created as i mentioned earlier that they reject that Allah does not comprehend by means of the five senses..... Therefore Allah’s Speech is negated and so is the significance of the Quran as this can be seen from their preference of the stories of the Imams over the stories of the Prophets mentioned in the Quran...

to be continued.......

I think I'll post the same thing I did in the combining Prayers thread

Let's make this clear. Non-Shi`as are allowed and welcome to come on this board, but with an important caveat. This is a Shi`a site, dedicated towards Shi`ism and its promotion. This doesn't mean that one has to accept Shi`ism to participate here, but, users whose main purpose in coming here is simply to try to show us up, trying to prove us Rafidis to be mushrik grave worshiping kuffar are _not_ welcome. Not out of fear that they'll actually have some good point we're worried about (it's usually just the same copy/paste drive-by that's already been refuted umpteen times) but because it's a waste of our time and we have no obligation to help them air their garbage. The quality and purpose of the site only gets muddied with posters like that above. So, from now on, in sha Allah, expect a more aggressive enforcement of this policy. (Same goes for evangelizing Christians, angry atheists, and anyone else whose intent is simply to attack our religion)

I don't see you doing anything different.

Edited by Legio Invicta

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(salam)

Vilayatul Faqih you didn't have to post up that article. All i wanted to know is that is it true that wahabi's describe God with a physical body.

w/s

Edited by Son Of Adam

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TO continue from my other poste

Say for eg Allah really had an eye(istakhfarulah) it means if this eye were to go he would loose sight which brings him down to our level and give his eye superioty ( no Sense) Istkhfarlah

Hello brother

Have you not read the verse where your Lord says: "So put not forward similitudes for Allah.” (an-Nahl:74)

Well i think you should honestly learn about certain principles related to the Siffat of Allah in the sunni faith first before you make such statements:

1. Tashbeeh/ Comparison: This means comparing the attributes of the creator to the attributes of the created as the Christians, Jews and some sects in Islam compare the face of Allah with the human face, Allah’s hand to the human hand and so on. (al asilah wal ajwibah al usuliyyah p. 35)

2. Tahreef/Distortion: This is done through false interpretation or change. For exmple, the change of the wordings of names and attributes, by adding to them, subtracting from them or changing the grammatical constructions, such as the verse “And Allah spoke directly to Moses” (an Nisa:163) where the Arabic word Allah was declined to indicate that Moses spoke to Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, and so by doing negating Allah’s attribute of talking.The safest method to adopt towards this issue is that of the early Salaf. They confirmed the attributes which Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, had confirmed to Himself and which the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, had confirmed to Him, without distorting interpretation nor making comparisons that are unbefitting of the Majesty and Oneness of Allah, subhana wa ta'ala. We attest the attributes mentioned in the Qur’an and Sunnah such as the face, two hands, the occupation of the Throne, the descent to the lower heaven, anger, pleasure and so on. Without comparing them to human attributes or interpreting them in a way that leads to negating them. Imam Shafi’i said: “I believe i Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, and in what revelation tells about Him, in the manner He intended and I believe in the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, in the manner he intended.” (al asilah wa ajwibah al usuliyyah p. 50)

3. Ta’teel/Negation: This is done by negating divine attributes, and denying their existence in Allah, subhana wa ta'ala. For instance, negating the perfection of Allah by denying His names and attributes, or negating the proper conduct towards Allah by abandoning worship, or barring the created from its creator, such as those who deny the fact that Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, created the universe and claim that it developed and evolved

4. Taykeef: This is done by attempting to determine the manner in which Allah’s attributes take form and also determining their essence. The method of taking names and attributes mentioned in the the Qur’an and Sunnah at face value, without any comparison, change, negation, nor taykeef is the method of the Companions, radi Allahu anhum, their followers and those who followed their followers, may Allah have mercy them to engage in, nor had they tarnished their worship with the innovation and in inquiring after His nature and essence. In those days religion was pure and devoid of all heresy....” (at tuhaf fee madaahibi as salaf p. 7)

5. Tafweed: This is to affirm the attributes but to negate they have any meaning.

Brother your example falls in to Tasbeeh & Takyeef so sunni's don't do this!

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If they do that with the 'Ulemâ of Twelver Shi'ism, especially those specialized in kalâm, then rightly so. The belief that humans are creators of their actions is shirk without doubt which is a belief borrowed from the Mu'tazilah.

You do understand that Sunnis believe pretty much the same thing. It's just a bunch of semantics, which makes certain positions seem more drastic than others.

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The author Abu Ya'la of that book doesn't represent the 'Aqîdah of Salafi's, if it's incorrect otherwise brother Botta is free to correct. Also Imâm Ahmad and Abu Zur'ah al-Râzi (ÑÍãåãÇ Çááå) are talking about the hadîth 'ÑÃíÊ ÑÈí ÚÒ æÌá' without the addition of beard, young boy (ÃÚæÐ ÈÇááå) which is stated on the same page if you would take the time to look into it.

They are speaking about hadith "I saw Allah in the green garden without the beard, waved hairs as young boy."

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áãÇ ÞÖì Çááå ÇáÎáÞ. ßÊÈ ßÊÇÈÇ Ýåæ ÚäÏå ÝæÞ ÇáÚÑÔ Åä ÑÍãÊí ÛáÈÊ ÛÖÈí

Bukhari "Sahih" hadith № 3230 "ßÊÇÈ ÈÏÁ ÇáÎáÞ "

Would you please explain this hadith? Allah writes a book? Or what?

ÞÑÃÊ Úáì ÃÈí ¡ äÇ ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ÇáÍßã Èä ÃÈÇä ¡ ÞÇá ÍÏËäí ÃÈí ¡ Úä ÚßÑãÉ ¡ ÞÇá : « Åä Çááå ÚÒ æÌá áã íãÓ ÈíÏå ÔíÆÇ ÅáÇ ËáÇËÇ : ÎáÞ ÂÏã ÈíÏå ¡ æÛÑÓ ÇáÌäÉ ÈíÏå ¡ æßÊÈ ÇáÊæÑÇÉ ÈíÏå

ÍÏËäí ÃÈí ÑÍãå Çááå ¡ äÇ ÃÈæ ÇáãÛíÑÉ ¡ ÍÏËÊäÇ ÚÈÏÉ ¡ Úä ÃÈíåÇ ¡ ÎÇáÏ Èä ãÚÏÇä ¡ ÞÇá : « Åä Çááå ÚÒ æÌá áã íãÓ ÈíÏå ÅáÇ ÂÏã ÕáæÇÊ Çááå Úáíå ÎáÞå ÈíÏå ¡ æÇáÌäÉ ¡ æÇáÊæÑÇÉ ßÊÈåÇ ÈíÏå

Allah only touched to Adam, Jannah and Tawrat with his hand. Allah created Adam with his hand and wrote the Tawrat with his hand.

"Al-sunnah" Abdullah b. Ahmad hadith 496 and 497

Is it your Tawhid?

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Hello brother

Have you not read the verse where your Lord says: "So put not forward similitudes for Allah." (an-Nahl:74)

Well i think you should honestly learn about certain principles related to the Siffat of Allah in the sunni faith first before you make such statements:

1. Tashbeeh/ Comparison: This means comparing the attributes of the creator to the attributes of the created as the Christians, Jews and some sects in Islam compare the face of Allah with the human face, Allah's hand to the human hand and so on. (al asilah wal ajwibah al usuliyyah p. 35)

2. Tahreef/Distortion: This is done through false interpretation or change. For exmple, the change of the wordings of names and attributes, by adding to them, subtracting from them or changing the grammatical constructions, such as the verse "And Allah spoke directly to Moses" (an Nisa:163) where the Arabic word Allah was declined to indicate that Moses spoke to Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, and so by doing negating Allah's attribute of talking.The safest method to adopt towards this issue is that of the early Salaf. They confirmed the attributes which Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, had confirmed to Himself and which the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, had confirmed to Him, without distorting interpretation nor making comparisons that are unbefitting of the Majesty and Oneness of Allah, subhana wa ta'ala. We attest the attributes mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah such as the face, two hands, the occupation of the Throne, the descent to the lower heaven, anger, pleasure and so on. Without comparing them to human attributes or interpreting them in a way that leads to negating them. Imam Shafi'i said: "I believe i Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, and in what revelation tells about Him, in the manner He intended and I believe in the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, in the manner he intended." (al asilah wa ajwibah al usuliyyah p. 50)

3. Ta'teel/Negation: This is done by negating divine attributes, and denying their existence in Allah, subhana wa ta'ala. For instance, negating the perfection of Allah by denying His names and attributes, or negating the proper conduct towards Allah by abandoning worship, or barring the created from its creator, such as those who deny the fact that Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, created the universe and claim that it developed and evolved

4. Taykeef: This is done by attempting to determine the manner in which Allah's attributes take form and also determining their essence. The method of taking names and attributes mentioned in the the Qur'an and Sunnah at face value, without any comparison, change, negation, nor taykeef is the method of the Companions, radi Allahu anhum, their followers and those who followed their followers, may Allah have mercy them to engage in, nor had they tarnished their worship with the innovation and in inquiring after His nature and essence. In those days religion was pure and devoid of all heresy...." (at tuhaf fee madaahibi as salaf p. 7)

5. Tafweed: This is to affirm the attributes but to negate they have any meaning.

Brother your example falls in to Tasbeeh & Takyeef so sunni's don't do this!

Im not reading all the Number 1.

NUmber 2. I was saying Allah cant have atributes and looks nothing like anyone on the world so please .. quit and im not SUNNI

and please read this if your going to follow one part of ur school of thought cummon do it right

Why prostration in prayer must be done on earth

Abu Said Al Khudri narrates:

The Messenger of Allah used to practice Itikaf (in the mosque), in the middle third of Ramadan. After the twentieth night, he used to return home on the twenty-first, and those who were in Itikaf with him would return to their homes as well. In Ramadan, in which he practiced Itikaf, he would pray the night prayers on the night in which he returned home, and then address the people, instructing them as Allah commanded him. He said, "I used to practice Itikaf for these ten days (i.e. the middle third of Ramadan), but I now intend to stay in Itikaf for the last ten days. Whoever was in Itikaf with me should stay at his place of seclusion. I have certainly been shown (the date of) this Night (of Qadr), but I have forgotten it. Search for it in the odd nights of the last ten days (of Ramadan). I also saw myself (in a dream) prostrating in mud and water." On the twenty-first night, the sky was covered with clouds and it rained, and the rainwater started leaking through the roof of the mosque onto the praying place of the Prophet. With my own eyes, I saw the Prophet, upon completion of the morning prayer, leaving (the mosque) with his face covered with mud and water.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 3.235

Abu Hazim narrates:

Sahl bin Sa'd was asked about the (Prophet's) pulpit, as to what was it made of. Sahl replied: No one is still alive among the people who knows about it better than I. It was made of tamarisk forest wood. So and so, the slave of so and so, prepared it for the Messenger of Allah. When it was constructed and placed (in the mosque), the Messenger of Allah stood on it, facing the Qibla, and said, "Allahu Akbar", and the people stood behind him (in prayer). He recited and bowed, and the people behind him bowed. Then he raised his head, stepped back, descended and prostrated on the ground. He then again ascended the pulpit, recited, bowed, raised his head, stepped back, descended and prostrated on the ground. This is what I know about the pulpit.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 1.374

Hazrat Maimuna said:

The Messenger of Allah used to pray on a Khumra (a palm leaf mat large enough to place one's face, while in prostration).

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 1.378

Jabir bin Abdullah narrates:

The Messenger of Allah said: I have been given five things which were not given to any of the Prophets before me. These are:

1.
Allah
made me victorious by inspiring awe (and fear in my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey.

2.
The earth has been made a place of prostration
for me, and a place to perform Tayammum. Thus, my followers can pray wherever (i.e. in any lawful place) they like, when the time of prayer is due.

3. War booty has been made lawful for me.

4. Every Prophet was sent only to his own nation, but I have been sent to all mankind.

5. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection).

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 1.429

Abu Sa'eed used to relate that he had seen the Prophet prostrating on wet mud, so much so that he could see mud stains on his forehead.

Saheeh Bukhari, Part I, p. 104

Hazrat Maimuna said:

The Messenger of Allah was once praying while I was experiencing my menses and sitting beside him. Sometimes his clothing would touch me during his prostration. She added: He prayed on a Khumra (a small palm leaf mat).

Saheeh Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 376

The Prophet used to place his forehead on the earth while prostrating.

Saheeh Bukhari, Part 1, p. 97

The Prophet declared that the best place for prostration was the earth, or upon something that grows from the earth.

Kanz-ul-Ummal, Part 4., p. 113

(Famous Sunni book of Hadith)

The Prophet said to his wife Umm Salma, " Bring me the Khumra from the mosque." The word Khumra means a small piece of chatai made from palm leaf, on which only the head could be rested when prostrating. lbn-Athir, in his Jami-al-Usool has written, "Khumra is the Sajdagah (Persian word meaning "prostration place") upon which the Shias of our time perform their prostrations."

I (i.e. Maulana Zamankhan) maintain that by this Hadith it is Sunnat to keep a Sajdagah. Those who forbid it and call it the way of the Rafizites (Shiites) are wrong. To practice this Sunnat, I often perform my prostrations on a fan made from palm leaf, and I do not care about the criticism of the ignorant. We are concerned only with the Sunnat of the Prophet (SAA), regardless of whether they call it the way of the Rafizites or the Kharijites. Let them rave about it.

Maulana Vahidul Zamankhan (Sunni Alim),

author of 'Anwar-ul-Lughat', Chap. 7, p. 118

Why the Asr prayer may be prayed immediately after Zuhr, and the Isha prayer immediately after Maghrib

It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbas, that he said that the Messenger of Allah prayed Zuhr and Asr together, and also Maghrib and Isha, although he was neither in a state of fear nor on a journey.

Saheeh Muslim, Vol. I, p.264

Ibn Abbas narrates that the Messenger of Allah recited the Zuhr and Asr prayers together, and also said the Maghrib and Isha prayers, although he was neither in a state of fear, nor was there any other cause, e.g. rain. It is related from Waki that he asked Ibn Abbas the reason (for the joint prayers). Ibn Abbas replied: So that the followers (of the Prophet) may not experience inconvenience and difficulty.

(1) Saheeh Muslim, Vol. I, p.265

(2) Jami Tirmizee, p. 54

Abdullah Bin Shaqeeq narrates that one day after the Asr prayer, Ibn Abbas began delivering a sermon which was so long that the sun set and the stars appeared. People began to shout: Salat! Salat! (as it was time for Maghrib prayer). Ibn Abbas paid no heed to them until someone from Bani Tameem stood up and shouted continously: Salat! Salat! Ibn Abbas responded: Woe unto you! You wish to teach me the Sunnat? He said: I have personally seen the Messenger of Allah pray the Zuhr and Asr prayers together, and likewise, the Maghrib and Isha prayers.

The narrator says: This statement of Ibn Abbas kept disturbing my conscience until I went and asked Abu Huraira about it, and he attested to what Ibn Abbas had said.

Saheeh Muslim, Vol. 1 p. 265

It is related from Ibn Abbas that the Prophet at one time recited seven rakats of prayers, and at another time eight rakats, i.e. he recited the Maghrib and Isha prayers together, and the Zuhr and Asr prayers together.

Saheeh Bukhari, Part I, p.72

It is narrated by Ibn Abbas that in Madina the Prophet used to recite two prayers together (Zuhr and Asr, and Maghrib and Isha), without there being any fear or rainfall. When asked about the reason for this, he said: The Prophet desired that his followers may not suffer inconvenience, and therefore the two prayers may be recited together.

Sunan Nasaee, p. 290

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لما قضى الله الخلق. كتب كتابا فهو عنده فوق العرش إن رحمتي غلبت غضبي

Bukhari "Sahih" hadith № 3230 "كتاب بدء الخلق "

Would you please explain this hadith? Allah writes a book? Or what?

قرأت على أبي ، نا إبراهيم بن الحكم بن أبان ، قال حدثني أبي ، عن عكرمة ، قال : « إن الله عز وجل لم يمس بيده شيئا إلا ثلاثا : خلق آدم بيده ، وغرس الجنة بيده ، وكتب التوراة بيده

حدثني أبي رحمه الله ، نا أبو المغيرة ، حدثتنا عبدة ، عن أبيها ، خالد بن معدان ، قال : « إن الله عز وجل لم يمس بيده إلا آدم صلوات الله عليه خلقه بيده ، والجنة ، والتوراة كتبها بيده

Allah only touched to Adam, Jannah and Tawrat with his hand. Allah created Adam with his hand and wrote the Tawrat with his hand.

"Al-sunnah" Abdullah b. Ahmad hadith 496 and 497

Is it your Tawhid?

The Hadith is no different to the verses in the Holy Qur'an:

"And the sky We built with Hands; verily We outspread [it]" (Qur'an 51:47)

Say, the bounty is in the Hand of Allaah (bi yad illaahi)" (3:73)

"And the Jews say: The Hand of Allaah is tied (yad ullaahi)..." and later in the verse "... nay both His Hands (yadaahu) are oustretched..." (5:64)

"He said: O Iblees, what prevented you from prostrating to what I created with My Own Two Hands (bi yadaiyya)..." (38:75)

"Do they not see that We have created for them of what Our Hands (aydeenaa) have created, the cattle..." (36:71)

"Blessed be the One in Whose Hand (bi yadihi) is the Dominion..." (67:1)

?

Edited by ibnhaidarali

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