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In the Name of God بسم الله

Wahabis Beleive God Has A Body?

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  • Advanced Member

The Hadith is no different to the verses in the Holy Qur'an:

"And the sky We built with Hands; verily We outspread [it]" (Qur'an 51:47)

Say, the bounty is in the Hand of Allaah (bi yad illaahi)" (3:73)

"And the Jews say: The Hand of Allaah is tied (yad ullaahi)..." and later in the verse "... nay both His Hands (yadaahu) are oustretched..." (5:64)

"He said: O Iblees, what prevented you from prostrating to what I created with My Own Two Hands (bi yadaiyya)..." (38:75)

"Do they not see that We have created for them of what Our Hands (aydeenaa) have created, the cattle..." (36:71)

"Blessed be the One in Whose Hand (bi yadihi) is the Dominion..." (67:1)

?

When it says Hand, Its not a physical meaning its a metafore saying the power or will of Allah, beacuse giving Allah atributes gives, him limits it cant be

And when it says for eg "yadu'lah fawka Aydeehim" if you were to take it in a physical sense allahs hand is ontop of there, wow makes no sense his hand isnt ontop of mine (well he has no hand)

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When it says Hand, Its not a physical meaning its a metafore saying the power or will of Allah, beacuse giving Allah atributes gives, him limits it cant be

And when it says for eg "yadu'lah fawka Aydeehim" if you were to take it in a physical sense allahs hand is ontop of there, wow makes no sense his hand isnt ontop of mine (well he has no hand)

Perhaps if the Qur'an was revealed in Persian it would make life easier for you but Allah's said "Verily, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'ân in order that you may understand". (Yusuf 12:2)

The only thing that is limited is the a'ql of humans so we mustn't try to use it to say about Allah that which he has given us no authority to say: Ahlus sunnah on the other hand don't deviate from the words Allah described Himself with in the Qur'an...

I ask you who knows more about Allah?? He Himself (and we know He is Al Aleem) or you?

And Allah (The Most High) is the Most Perfect In HIs Speech, therefore His Words should be used to describe HIM......

What you're saying is hand can't mean the hand as we humans know so therefore you negate something Allah used to describe Himself with... This is not good my brother!

Ahlus sunnah affirm His Hands, but we don't say they are like ours, we don't speculate their form, we don't negate or distort their meanings by saying they mean power and we most definately don't say that we don't know what they mean.....

Take heed brother "Truly, those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, for them there is a severe torment; and Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Able of Retribution". (Aali Imran 3:4)

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Perhaps if the Qur'an was revealed in Persian it would make life easier for you but Allah's said "Verily, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'ân in order that you may understand". (Yusuf 12:2)

The only thing that is limited is the a'ql of humans so we mustn't try to use it to say about Allah that which he has given us no authority to say: Ahlus sunnah on the other hand don't deviate from the words Allah described Himself with in the Qur'an...

I ask you who knows more about Allah?? He Himself (and we know He is Al Aleem) or you?

And Allah (The Most High) is the Most Perfect In HIs Speech, therefore His Words should be used to describe HIM......

What you're saying is hand can't mean the hand as we humans know so therefore you negate something Allah used to describe Himself with... This is not good my brother!

Ahlus sunnah affirm His Hands, but we don't say they are like ours, we don't speculate their form, we don't negate or distort their meanings by saying they mean power and we most definately don't say that we don't know what they mean.....

Take heed brother "Truly, those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, for them there is a severe torment; and Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Able of Retribution". (Aali Imran 3:4)

Ok so your saying Allah has same appearance as us and ur giving him limitation by shaping him, k :S look dont answer ur a waste of time

you think Allah has hands ok ;S - Allah described his self

Like this:

al-Ikhlâs

bismillah_e.gif

quran_ikhlas_2e.gif

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begetteth not nor is He begotten.

And there is none like unto Him.

That is how Allah describes himself not by saying he has hands(istakhfarulah)

If Allah was to have an appearance, and that he created in us that means someone would've had to create him to give him his appearance( it makes no sense)

Edited by TheAwaitedSaviour
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Ok so your saying Allah has same appearance as us and ur giving him limitation by shaping him, k :S look dont answer ur a waste of time

you think Allah has hands ok ;S - Allah described his self

Like this:

al-Ikhlâs

bismillah_e.gif

quran_ikhlas_2e.gif

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begetteth not nor is He begotten.

And there is none like unto Him.

That is how Allah describes himself not by saying he has hands(istakhfarulah)

If Allah was to have an appearance, and that he created in us that means someone would've had to create him to give him his appearance( it makes no sense)

How do you answer this???

If Hand means power , Iblees would not have been unmindful of that, rather he should have said (when asked to prostrate), "What excellence does Aadam have over me that requires me to prostrate to him, when You created me with your Hand as well, which is your qudrah (power) and with your ni'mah (bounty, favour) you created me?"

Iblees was created by Allah right??? So whats the issue here?

Rather Allaah, the Most High, favoured Aadam over him (Iblees) by creating him with His Two Hands....

This is evidence of the corruption of what you have said.

If you wish to respond please give a logical answer to this question................

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You do understand that Sunnis believe pretty much the same thing. It's just a bunch of semantics, which makes certain positions seem more drastic than others.

Absolutely not! Show me those "bunch of semantics" which you're talking about? I have never seen a statement in any work of Ahl al-Sunnah that Allâh Most High brings all bodies, accidents in existence EXCEPT the human actions ونعوذ بالله من ذلك . Rather, Allâh Most High brings the actions of humans into existence.

Edited by Abu'l Fadl
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  • Advanced Member

Absolutely not! Show me those "bunch of semantics" which you're talking about? I have never seen a statement in any work of Ahl al-Sunnah that Allâh Most High brings all bodies, accidents in existence EXCEPT the human actions æäÚæÐ ÈÇááå ãä Ðáß . Rather, Allâh Most High brings the actions of humans into existence.

THEN WE AGREE I DONT THINK Allah HAS APPEARANCE AS WELL

thats what im arguing

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answer me yes or no do u think god has hands

O your a sunni yer im not waisting my time you guys interpret everything wrong u dont even take from who u say sunni hadith :sahhih Bukhari: so what ever im not answering any more

Brother believe me you're not wasting your time...

Yes Ahlus sunnah believe Allah has Two Hands, why? Because the statement of our Rabb:

Say, the bounty is in the Hand of Allaah (bi yad illaahi)" (3:73)

"And the Jews say: The Hand of Allaah is tied (yad ullaahi)..." and later in the verse "... nay both His Hands (yadaahu) are oustretched..." (5:64)

"He said: O Iblees, what prevented you from prostrating to what I created with My Own Two Hands (bi yadaiyya)..." (38:75)

and we should not deny something which Allah affirmed for Himself

Hand does not mean power

If Hand means power , Iblees would not have been unmindful of that, rather he should have said (when asked to prostrate), "What excellence does Aadam have over me that requires me to prostrate to him, when You created me with your Hand as well, which is your qudrah (power) and with your ni'mah (bounty, favour) you created me?"

Iblees was created by Allah right??? So whats the issue here?

Rather Allaah, the Most High, favoured Aadam over him (Iblees) by creating him with His Two Hands....

No one can refute this argument because it is the TRUTH

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  • Advanced Member

The Hadith is no different to the verses in the Holy Qur'an:

"And the sky We built with Hands; verily We outspread [it]" (Qur'an 51:47)

Say, the bounty is in the Hand of Allaah (bi yad illaahi)" (3:73)

"And the Jews say: The Hand of Allaah is tied (yad ullaahi)..." and later in the verse "... nay both His Hands (yadaahu) are oustretched..." (5:64)

"He said: O Iblees, what prevented you from prostrating to what I created with My Own Two Hands (bi yadaiyya)..." (38:75)

"Do they not see that We have created for them of what Our Hands (aydeenaa) have created, the cattle..." (36:71)

"Blessed be the One in Whose Hand (bi yadihi) is the Dominion..." (67:1)

?

Tafseer of ayah (2-255)

5790

ÍÏËäí ãæÓì Èä åÇÑæä ÞÇá : ÍÏËäÇ ÚãÑæ ÞÇá : ÍÏËäÇ ÃÓÈÇØ ¡ Úä ÇáÓÏí : " æÓÚ ßÑÓíå ÇáÓãÇæÇÊ æÇáÃÑÖ " ÝÅä ÇáÓãæÇÊ æÇáÃÑÖ Ýí ÌæÝ ÇáßÑÓí ¡ æÇáßÑÓí Èíä íÏí ÇáÚÑÔ ¡ æåæ ãæÖÚ ÞÏãíå .

5791

ÍÏËäí ÇáãËäì ÞÇá : ÍÏËäÇ ÅÓÍÇÞ ÞÇá : ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ÒåíÑ ¡ Úä ÌæíÈÑ ¡ Úä ÇáÖÍÇß Þæáå : " æÓÚ ßÑÓíå ÇáÓãÇæÇÊ æÇáÃÑÖ " ÞÇá : ßÑÓíå ÇáÐí íæÖÚ ÊÍÊ ÇáÚÑÔ ¡ ÇáÐí íÌÚá Çáãáæß Úáíå ÃÞÏÇãåã .

"Tafsir at-Tabari" 5/398,399

th.b32a879660.jpg

"Al-sunnah" Abdullah b. Ahmad

Is it your God, as you describe?

th.9aa029df85.jpg

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  • Advanced Member

Perhaps if the Qur'an was revealed in Persian it would make life easier for you but Allah's said "Verily, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'ân in order that you may understand". (Yusuf 12:2)

The only thing that is limited is the a'ql of humans so we mustn't try to use it to say about Allah that which he has given us no authority to say: Ahlus sunnah on the other hand don't deviate from the words Allah described Himself with in the Qur'an...

Here is how Allah describe Himself in the Holy Quran:

Çááóøåõ äõæÑõ ÇáÓóøãóÇæóÇÊö æóÇáÃÑúÖö ãóËóáõ äõæÑöåö ßóãöÔúßóÇÉò ÝöíåóÇ ãöÕúÈóÇÍñ ÇáúãöÕúÈóÇÍõ Ýöí ÒõÌóÇÌóÉò ÇáÒõøÌóÇÌóÉõ ßóÃóäóøåóÇ ßóæúßóÈñ ÏõÑöøíñø íõæÞóÏõ ãöäú ÔóÌóÑóÉò ãõÈóÇÑóßóÉò ÒóíúÊõæäóÉò áÇ ÔóÑúÞöíóøÉò æóáÇ ÛóÑúÈöíóøÉò íóßóÇÏõ ÒóíúÊõåóÇ íõÖöíÁõ æóáóæú áóãú ÊóãúÓóÓúåõ äóÇÑñ äõæÑñ Úóáóì äõæÑò íóåúÏöí Çááóøåõ áöäõæÑöåö ãóäú íóÔóÇÁõ æóíóÖúÑöÈõ Çááóøåõ ÇáÃãúËóÇáó áöáäóøÇÓö æóÇááóøåõ Èößõáöø ÔóíúÁò Úóáöíãñ

024.035 Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

This is how Allah described Himself in the Holy Quran. In this description there are no hands, no face, no one eye, no two eyes, no multiple eyes, no foot or so forth.

I have included the above verse in Arabic too. I doubt it that you know Arabic at all. If you knew Arabic and had knowledge of Holy Quran you would had surely known how Allah described Himself in the Holy Quran.

"..................... Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things."

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Here is how Allah describe Himself in the Holy Quran:

This is how Allah described Himself in the Holy Quran. In this description there are no hands, no face, no one eye, no two eyes, no multiple eyes, no foot or so forth.

I have included the above verse in Arabic too. I doubt it that you know Arabic at all. If you knew Arabic and had knowledge of Holy Quran you would had surely known how Allah described Himself in the Holy Quran.

"..................... Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things."

Yes yes take one verse and deny all the others - your in line to become an Ayatullah!! :!!!:

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  • Advanced Member

Yes yes take one verse and deny all the others - your in line to become an Ayatullah!! :!!!:

This is the only verse in Holy Quran where Allah describes Himself!

But your problem is that you don't understand Arabic.

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This is the only verse in Holy Quran where Allah describes Himself!

But your problem is that you don't understand Arabic.

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'ân). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allâh. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Aali Imran 3:7)

If you are so grounded in Arabic please elaborate on how we are to understand Allah from this verse in Surah Nur?

Do you believe Allah has an Essence (Dhaat)?

Edited by ibnhaidarali
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  • Advanced Member

Perhaps if the Qur'an was revealed in Persian it would make life easier for you but Allah's said "Verily, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'ân in order that you may understand". (Yusuf 12:2)

The only thing that is limited is the a'ql of humans so we mustn't try to use it to say about Allah that which he has given us no authority to say: Ahlus sunnah on the other hand don't deviate from the words Allah described Himself with in the Qur'an...

I ask you who knows more about Allah?? He Himself (and we know He is Al Aleem) or you?

And Allah (The Most High) is the Most Perfect In HIs Speech, therefore His Words should be used to describe HIM......

What you're saying is hand can't mean the hand as we humans know so therefore you negate something Allah used to describe Himself with... This is not good my brother!

Ahlus sunnah affirm His Hands, but we don't say they are like ours, we don't speculate their form, we don't negate or distort their meanings by saying they mean power and we most definately don't say that we don't know what they mean.....

Take heed brother "Truly, those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, for them there is a severe torment; and Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Able of Retribution". (Aali Imran 3:4)

3 questions.

1. Is the whole Quran to be taken literally?

2. what is meant by Kursi in the Quran? is it a chair or what is it?

3. "Whoso is blind in here will be blind in the Hereafter, and yet further from the road." -the Holy Quran (17:22)

what is the literal meaning of this verse?

thank you

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  • Advanced Member

THEN WE AGREE I DONT THINK Allah HAS APPEARANCE AS WELL

thats what im arguing

From what I have read at some traditionalist Sunni sites, they oppose any form attributed to Allah SWT even if it is claimed by some that the form is not like our form.

In Manaqib Ahmad, al-Bayhaqi relates that he said:

"A person commits an act of disbelief (kufr) if he says Allah is a body, even if he says: Allah is a body but not like other bodies." He continues: "The expressions are taken from language and from Islam, and linguists applied "body" to a thing that has length, width, thickness, form, structure and components. The expression has not been handed down in Shari`a. Therefore, it is invalid and cannot be used."

I want to try and find this manuscript myself.

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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

(salam)

Among the books of the ahla-sunnah, God can be described physically and be seen with our own eyes, let's have a look:

-"Obei Ibn Kaab said: I heard the Messenger of God saying: The first one the Almighty will embrace on the day of judgement is Omar. The first one the Lord will shake hands with will be Omar, and the first one the Almighty takes by the hand and admits to paradise is Omar" [Al Mustadrak, Part 3 page 84, by al Hakim al-Nisaboori; Also in Sunnan ibn Majah by Al-Hafiz Muhammed ibn Majah also reported from Obei.]

-Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet (saas) said, "Allaah will hold the whole earth and roll all the heavens up in His Right Hand, and then He will say, 'I am the King, where are the kings of the earth?'" [saheeh Bukhaari, vol6, book60, no336]

-Jabir bin 'Abdullah narrated: The Prophet said, "You will definitely see your Lord with your own eyes."

Sahih Bukhari, v9, Hadith #530.

-Jabir bin 'Abdullah narrated: Allah's Apostle came out to us on the night of the full moon and said, "You will see your Lord on the Day of Resurrection as you see this (full moon) and you will have no difficulty in seeing Him." Sahih Bukhari, v9, Hadith #531

-'Ata' bin Yazid Al-Laithi narrated:

On the authority of Abu Huraira: The people said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" The Prophet said, "Do you have any difficulty in seeing the moon on a full moon night?" They said, "No, O Allah's Apostle." He said, "Do you have any difficulty in seeing the sun when there are no clouds?" They said, "No, O Allah's Apostle." He said, "So you will see Him like that. Allah will gather all the people on the Day of Resurrection, and ... Allah will come to them and say, 'I am your Lord.' They will (deny Him and) say, 'We will stay here till our Lord comes, for when our Lord comes, we will recognize Him.' So Allah will come to them in His appearance which they know, and will say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say, 'You are our Lord,' so they will follow Him. Then a bridge will be laid across Hell (Fire).... The man will say, 'O my Lord! Do not make me the most miserable of Your creation,' and he will keep on invoking Allah till Allah will laugh because of his sayings, and when Allah will laugh because of him, He will say to him, 'Enter Paradise,'.... Sahih Bukhari, v9, Hadith #532a

-Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri narrated:

... Allah's Apostle said, "So you will have no difficulty in seeing your Lord on that Day as you have no difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon (in a clear sky)." ... Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him.

Sahih Bukhari, v9, Hadith #532s

-The Prophet (S.A.W.) said: "I saw my Lord in the shape of a young man who had abundant/long hairs."

Kanz al-Ummal, v1, Ch3 of supplements to the Book of Iman, Hadith #1152

Tabarani in Sunna said Abu Zar'a said this Hadith is Sahih. Suyuti said: This refers to seeing in dream.

-It is mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari on the authority of Abu Huraira that:

The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam in His picture, sixty cubits (about 30 meters) in height."

Sahih Bukhari, v8, Hadith #246

The Prophet (S.A.W.) said: "I saw my Lord in the shape of a young hairy man in a green area while He was wearing gold shoes."

- Kanz al-Ummal, v1, Ch3 of supplements to the Book of Iman, Hadith #1153

- Majma' al-Zawa'id, v7, Book of Dream interpretation, Hadith #11745

- Mu'jam al-Kabir, al-Tabarani, Bab al-Baa, Hadith #25/144

w/s

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Brother believe me you're not wasting your time...

Yes Ahlus sunnah believe Allah has Two Hands, why? Because the statement of our Rabb:

Say, the bounty is in the Hand of Allaah (bi yad illaahi)" (3:73)

"And the Jews say: The Hand of Allaah is tied (yad ullaahi)..." and later in the verse "... nay both His Hands (yadaahu) are oustretched..." (5:64)

"He said: O Iblees, what prevented you from prostrating to what I created with My Own Two Hands (bi yadaiyya)..." (38:75)

and we should not deny something which Allah affirmed for Himself

Hand does not mean power

If Hand means power , Iblees would not have been unmindful of that, rather he should have said (when asked to prostrate), "What excellence does Aadam have over me that requires me to prostrate to him, when You created me with your Hand as well, which is your qudrah (power) and with your ni'mah (bounty, favour) you created me?"

Iblees was created by Allah right??? So whats the issue here?

Rather Allaah, the Most High, favoured Aadam over him (Iblees) by creating him with His Two Hands....

No one can refute this argument because it is the TRUTH

Let us put it this way....

(bismillah)

æóáóÇ ÊóÏúÚõ ãóÚó Çááóøåö ÅöáóåðÇ ÂÎóÑó áóÇ Åöáóåó ÅöáóøÇ åõæó ßõáõø ÔóíúÁò åóÇáößñ ÅöáóøÇ æóÌúåóåõ áóåõ ÇáúÍõßúãõ æóÅöáóíúåö ÊõÑúÌóÚõæäó

And call not, besides Allah, on another god. There is no god but He. Everything (that exists) will perish except His own Face. To Him belongs the Command, and to Him will ye (all) be brought back.[surah Qasas Ayat 88]

If we take it literally it means everything will perish except the face of Allah but you said Allah has the hands and face as well. Will it mean those will also perish Nauzbillah?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Lets have a look at what the shia beleive, which is the truth in regards to describing Allah:

- In regards to the verse: Some faces, that Day, will beam (in brightness and beauty)― (22) Looking towards their Lord; (23) Qur'an, 75:22-23.

Ali ibn Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Imran ad-Daqqaq - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Muhammad ibn Harun al-Sufi quoted on the authority of Ubaydillah ibn Musa Al-Royani, on the authority of Abdul Azeem ibn Abdullah ibn Ali ibn Al-Hassan ibn Zayd ibn Al-Hassan ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib (s), on the authority of Ibrahim ibn Abi Mahmood, “Ali ibn Musa Al-Reza (s) said the following regarding the Words of the Sublime God, ‘Some faces, that Day, will beam (in brightness and beauty) looking towards their Lord.’ This means that these faces will be shining awaiting the reward of their Lord.” –Uyun akhbar al-reza, chapter 11, hadith 2.

Imam Ali (as) said:

"... The verse means looking forward to what Allah, the Mighty and the Majestic, has promised them. And the word 'Nadhira' sometimes means 'expecting/waiting/looking forward' ('al-Muntadhira'). Haven't you heard the saying of Allah: '(But I am going to send him a present) and I am looking forward (Nadhira) to what (answer) the ambassadors will return (27:35).' This means I am waiting (al-Muntadhira) for what the ambassadors will return. As for the verse: 'For indeed he saw him at a second descent. Near the Lote-tree of the uttermost boundary (53:13-14)', it means when Muhammad (S.A.W.) was near the Lote-tree of the uttermost boundary which none of His creations has passed it (saw Gabriel). It is His saying in the followed verses: '(His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see one of the great signs of his Lord! (53:17-18)', he saw Gabriel in his shape twice. Verily Gabriel is a great creature and is from amongst the spiritual entities whose creation and shapes are not fully understood except by the Lord of the Universe."

- al-Ihtijaj, v1, p243

- Bihar al-Anwar, v90/93, p101, Hadith #1

-In regards to the verse: (Allah) said: "O Iblis! what prevents thee from prostrating thyself to one whom I have created with My hands? Art thou haughty? Or art thou one of the high (and mighty) ones?" 38:75.

Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Aasim al-Kolayni - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Muhammad ibn Yaqoob al-Kolayni quoted on the authority of Ahmad ibn Idris, on the authority of Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Isa, on the authority of Ali ibn Sayf, on the authority of Muhammad ibn Obaydah, “I asked Al-Reza (s) about the Honorable the Exalted God’s words, ‘O Satan! What prevents thee from prostrating thyself to the one whom I have created with my hands?…’ The Imam (s) said, ‘This means by my Might and Power.’” – Uyun akhbar al-reza, chapter 11, hadith 13.

Quran (48:10): Verily those who plight their fealty to thee do no less than plight their fealty to Allah: the Hand of Allah is over their hands: then anyone who violates his oath, does so to the harm of his own soul and anyone who fulfils what he has covenanted with Allah― Allah will soon grant him a great Reward.

According to this verse how could Allah’s hands be over our hands physically? A CEO of an organization always says I have the upper hand in the company, is this metaphorical or literal?

In regards to the verse: No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension yet is acquainted with all things (6:103).

the impossibility of seeing, visualizing, imagining, describing, or even cogitating Allah, Abu Hashim al-Ja'fari narrated: About the verse "Visions can not reach Him and He grasps all visions (6:103)", Imam al-Reza (as) said: "O Aba Hashim! The thinking/imagination of the mind is more delicate than the vision of the eyes. By your imagination, you can reach to India and other places that you have not entered and your eyes have not reached. Thus, when the thinking of minds can not reach Him, then how could the visions of eyes do so?"

- al-Kafi, v1, p99, Hadith #11

- Kitab al-Tawhid, p113, Hadith #12

- Bihar al-Anwar, v4, p39, Hadith #17

Similarly, he narrated:

Imam al-Ridha (as) said: "Verily the imagination of the mind is more (powerful) than the vision of the eyes. Thus (the verse means) minds can not reach Him, and He reaches to all minds."

- al-Kafi, v1, p98, Hadith #10

- Kitab al-Tawhid, p112, Hadith #11

- Bihar al-Anwar, v4, p39, Hadith #16

Imam al-Sadiq (as) said: "Avoid pondering over (the Essence of) Allah, because pondering over (the Essence of) Allah would only increase deviation/error. Verily Allah cannot be reached by the sight (of minds) and cannot be described by proportion."

- Kitab al-Tawhid, p457, Hadith #14

- Wasa'il al-Shia, v16, p197, Hadith #21334

- Bihar al-Anwar, v3, p259, Hadith #4

Moreover, it is narrated:

The Leader of the Faithful (as) said: "Whosoever ponders on the Essence of Allah, becomes an infidel (Zindiq)."

- al-Kafi, v8, p22

- Tuhaf al-Uqul, p196

- Bihar al-Anwar, v74, p287

Seeing Allah is impossible when the mind cannot encompass Him. In another Hadith, Ibrahim al-Karkhi narrated: I said to Ja'far Ibn Muhammad al-Sadiq (as): "There is a man who claims to see Allah in dream. How is this possible?" He (as) replied: "That man has no religion. Verily Allah can be seen neither in awareness, nor in dream, nor in this world, nor in the Hereafter."

- al-Amali, Shaikh Saduq, p610, Hadith #5

- Bihar al-Anwar, v4, p32, Hadith#7

Seeing Allah by Heart

Hisham narrated:

Mu'awiya Ibn Wahab asked Imam al-Sadiq (as): "O son of the Apostle of Allah (S.A.W.)! What do you say about the narration that states 'the Apostle of Allah (S.A.W.) saw His Lord in anyway he saw', and the narration which states 'people in paradise shall see their Lord in Paradise in anyway they shall see.'" He (as) replied: "Verily Muhammad (S.A.W.) did not see His Lord by the sight of his eyes. Verily seeing is of two types: seeing by eyes, and seeing by heart. Thus, (in the mentioned traditions) if one considers it seeing by heart, then it is correct. However, if one considers it seeing by eye, then he has certainly disbelieved in Allah and in His signs. This is because the Apostle of Allah (S.A.W.) said: 'He who likens Allah to His creations has indeed become a disbeliever.' Indeed, my father narrated me from his father from al-Husain Ibn Ali (as) who said, the Commander of Believers (as) was asked: 'Have you seen your Lord?' He (as) said: 'How could I worship the one I do not see? Eyes can not see Him in an eye-witnessing process, but the hearts can see Him through the reality of faith.'" Then the Imam (as) continued: "Any thing that the eye could reach is a created (being) and any created being needs a creator. Thus, (if one could see his Lord by his eye) the eye has made Him a created being, not eternal. He who likens Him to His creatures has indeed taken associates with Allah. Woe onto them! Haven't they heard that Allah said: 'Visions can not reach Him, and He reaches to all visions, and He is Subtle well-aware (of all things) (6:103)' and His saying: 'By no means canst thou see Me; But look upon the mount; if it abides in its place, then shalt thou see Me. When (the created light of) his Lord manifested to the Mount, He made it as dust (7:143)' Verily He revealed just an amount of His (created) light that could pass through the eye of a needle, which struck the mountain. 'And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: Glory be to Thee! To Thee I turned' from the saying of he who thinks you can be seen, and returned to my understanding of you that the sight can not reach you 'and I am the first to believe (7:143)' means the first to confess that you see and you are not seen."

- Kifayatul Athar, p260

- al-Bihar, v4, p54, Hadith #32

Finally in regards to this verse: Quran 11:37: "But construct an Ark under Our eyes and Our inspiration, does this verse literally mean God has physical eyes?

w/s

(salam)

No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension yet is acquainted with all things (6:103).

Also: “There is nothing like Him, but He is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.” (Quran 42:11)

“There is nothing comparable to Him.” (Quran 112:4)

“And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, ‘My Lord, show me (Yourself) that I may look at You.’ (God) said, ‘You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me.’ But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, ‘Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers.’” (Quran 7:143)

w/s

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Let us put it this way....

(bismillah)

æóáóÇ ÊóÏúÚõ ãóÚó Çááóøåö ÅöáóåðÇ ÂÎóÑó áóÇ Åöáóåó ÅöáóøÇ åõæó ßõáõø ÔóíúÁò åóÇáößñ ÅöáóøÇ æóÌúåóåõ áóåõ ÇáúÍõßúãõ æóÅöáóíúåö ÊõÑúÌóÚõæäó

And call not, besides Allah, on another god. There is no god but He. Everything (that exists) will perish except His own Face. To Him belongs the Command, and to Him will ye (all) be brought back.[surah Qasas Ayat 88]

Ahlus sunnah believe there are two distinct categories when discussing the creation(Everything that Exists):

1. The creator - Allah (The Most High) Nothing of Allah can be created and to say the opposite is kufr...

2. The created - Sun & the moon, earth, mankind, jinn

The ayah in surah Al Qassas means that everything that is created will perish but our Lord Allah, His Hands, His Shin, His Eyes, His Feet, His Face are NOT Created!! They are His Noble Attributes therefore can never perish.....

Ahlus sunnah understand 'Everything will perish' to be referring to all that which is created except the Creator!

YOU said that by saying 'Everything will perish except His Own Face' this means His Hands, Feet, Eyes will perish? Do you have any evidence from the scriptures to justify this? Or are your conclusions derived from your deficient AQL? Principle: In the absence of specific texts regarding Allah we stop at the texts You can't assume in the case of Allah (The Most High) like you are assuming!

You have no proof other than you philosophical understanding of Allah and dodgy interpretation of His Words!

An example to futher refute your baseless assertions:

If Allah had said that 'Everything will perish except Ar Rahman'. Will this mean that Ar Raheem, Al Aziz, Al Quddos, would also perish?? Ofcourse not because Allah has many Names. Just because He didn't mention them it doesnt mean they are will perish.. Likewise how do you come to such an abhorrent conclusion regarding His Lofty Attributes?

Also the SC community has not addressed my previous question as mentioned below: Please refute first arguments first then jump to other points:

Hand does not mean power

If Hand means power , Iblees would not have been unmindful of that, rather he should have said (when asked to prostrate), "What excellence does Aadam have over me that requires me to prostrate to him, when You created me with your Hand as well, which is your qudrah (power) and with your ni'mah (bounty, favour) you created me?"

Iblees was created by Allah right??? So whats the issue here?

Rather Allaah, the Most High, favoured Aadam over him (Iblees) by creating him with His Two Hands....

(Oh Allah Forgive me if i have made any mistakes in this post as i am in a hurry & travelling - i hope i can edit any mistakes which i may have made upon reaching home)

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The ayah in surah Al Qassas means that everything that is created will perish but our Lord Allah, His Hands, His Shin, His Eyes, His Feet, His Face are NOT Created!! They are His Noble Attributes therefore can never perish.....

Now, describe Allah's hands, shin, eyes and face for me. Pretty please with a cherry on top.

Rather Allaah, the Most High, favoured Aadam over him (Iblees) by creating him with His Two Hands....

Please describe Allah's hands to me.

Edited by ninjaslim
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Now, describe Allah's hands, shin, eyes and face for me. Pretty please with a cherry on top.

Please describe Allah's hands to me.

How can one tell a Wahhabi from a normal person?

He/she will always use double vowels, such as in the following post:

Rather Allaah, the Most High, favoured Aadam over him (Iblees) by creating him with His Two Hands....
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(bismillah)

(salam)

- In regards to the verse: Some faces, that Day, will beam (in brightness and beauty)― (22) Looking towards their Lord; (23) Qur'an, 75:22-23.

Ali ibn Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Imran ad-Daqqaq - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Muhammad ibn Harun al-Sufi quoted on the authority of Ubaydillah ibn Musa Al-Royani, on the authority of Abdul Azeem ibn Abdullah ibn Ali ibn Al-Hassan ibn Zayd ibn Al-Hassan ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib (s), on the authority of Ibrahim ibn Abi Mahmood, “Ali ibn Musa Al-Reza (s) said the following regarding the Words of the Sublime God, ‘Some faces, that Day, will beam (in brightness and beauty) looking towards their Lord.’ This means that these faces will be shining awaiting the reward of their Lord.” –Uyun akhbar al-reza, chapter 11, hadith 2.

Imam Ali said:

"... The verse means looking forward to what Allah, the Mighty and the Majestic, has promised them. And the word 'Nadhira' sometimes means 'expecting/waiting/looking forward' ('al-Muntadhira'). Haven't you heard the saying of Allah: '(But I am going to send him a present) and I am looking forward (Nadhira) to what (answer) the ambassadors will return (27:35).' This means I am waiting (al-Muntadhira) for what the ambassadors will return. As for the verse: 'For indeed he saw him at a second descent. Near the Lote-tree of the uttermost boundary (53:13-14)', it means when Muhammad (S.A.W.) was near the Lote-tree of the uttermost boundary which none of His creations has passed it (saw Gabriel). It is His saying in the followed verses: '(His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see one of the great signs of his Lord! (53:17-18)', he saw Gabriel in his shape twice. Verily Gabriel is a great creature and is from amongst the spiritual entities whose creation and shapes are not fully understood except by the Lord of the Universe."

- al-Ihtijaj, v1, p243

- Bihar al-Anwar, v90/93, p101, Hadith #1

-In regards to the verse: (Allah) said: "O Iblis! what prevents thee from prostrating thyself to one whom I have created with My hands? Art thou haughty? Or art thou one of the high (and mighty) ones?" 38:75.

Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Aasim al-Kolayni - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Muhammad ibn Yaqoob al-Kolayni quoted on the authority of Ahmad ibn Idris, on the authority of Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Isa, on the authority of Ali ibn Sayf, on the authority of Muhammad ibn Obaydah, “I asked Al-Reza (s) about the Honorable the Exalted God’s words, ‘O Satan! What prevents thee from prostrating thyself to the one whom I have created with my hands?…’ The Imam (s) said, ‘This means by my Might and Power.’” – Uyun akhbar al-reza, chapter 11, hadith 13.

Quran (48:10): Verily those who plight their fealty to thee do no less than plight their fealty to Allah: the Hand of Allah is over their hands: then anyone who violates his oath, does so to the harm of his own soul and anyone who fulfils what he has covenanted with Allah― Allah will soon grant him a great Reward.

According to this verse how could Allah’s hands be over our hands physically? A CEO of an organization always says I have the upper hand in the company, is this metaphorical or literal?

In regards to the verse: No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension yet is acquainted with all things (6:103).

the impossibility of seeing, visualizing, imagining, describing, or even cogitating Allah, Abu Hashim al-Ja'fari narrated: About the verse "Visions can not reach Him and He grasps all visions (6:103)", Imam al-Reza said: "O Aba Hashim! The thinking/imagination of the mind is more delicate than the vision of the eyes. By your imagination, you can reach to India and other places that you have not entered and your eyes have not reached. Thus, when the thinking of minds can not reach Him, then how could the visions of eyes do so?"

- al-Kafi, v1, p99, Hadith #11

- Kitab al-Tawhid, p113, Hadith #12

- Bihar al-Anwar, v4, p39, Hadith #17

Similarly, he narrated:

Imam al-Ridha said: "Verily the imagination of the mind is more (powerful) than the vision of the eyes. Thus (the verse means) minds can not reach Him, and He reaches to all minds."

- al-Kafi, v1, p98, Hadith #10

- Kitab al-Tawhid, p112, Hadith #11

- Bihar al-Anwar, v4, p39, Hadith #16

Imam al-Sadiq said: "Avoid pondering over (the Essence of) Allah, because pondering over (the Essence of) Allah would only increase deviation/error. Verily Allah cannot be reached by the sight (of minds) and cannot be described by proportion."

- Kitab al-Tawhid, p457, Hadith #14

- Wasa'il al-Shia, v16, p197, Hadith #21334

- Bihar al-Anwar, v3, p259, Hadith #4

Moreover, it is narrated:

The Leader of the Faithful said: "Whosoever ponders on the Essence of Allah, becomes an infidel (Zindiq)."

- al-Kafi, v8, p22

- Tuhaf al-Uqul, p196

- Bihar al-Anwar, v74, p287

Seeing Allah is impossible when the mind cannot encompass Him. In another Hadith, Ibrahim al-Karkhi narrated: I said to Ja'far Ibn Muhammad al-Sadiq : "There is a man who claims to see Allah in dream. How is this possible?" He replied: "That man has no religion. Verily Allah can be seen neither in awareness, nor in dream, nor in this world, nor in the Hereafter."

- al-Amali, Shaikh Saduq, p610, Hadith #5

- Bihar al-Anwar, v4, p32, Hadith#7

Seeing Allah by Heart

Hisham narrated:

Mu'awiya Ibn Wahab asked Imam al-Sadiq : "O son of the Apostle of Allah (S.A.W.)! What do you say about the narration that states 'the Apostle of Allah (S.A.W.) saw His Lord in anyway he saw', and the narration which states 'people in paradise shall see their Lord in Paradise in anyway they shall see.'" He replied: "Verily Muhammad (S.A.W.) did not see His Lord by the sight of his eyes. Verily seeing is of two types: seeing by eyes, and seeing by heart. Thus, (in the mentioned traditions) if one considers it seeing by heart, then it is correct. However, if one considers it seeing by eye, then he has certainly disbelieved in Allah and in His signs. This is because the Apostle of Allah (S.A.W.) said: 'He who likens Allah to His creations has indeed become a disbeliever.' Indeed, my father narrated me from his father from al-Husain Ibn Ali who said, the Commander of Believers was asked: 'Have you seen your Lord?' He said: 'How could I worship the one I do not see? Eyes can not see Him in an eye-witnessing process, but the hearts can see Him through the reality of faith.'" Then the Imam continued: "Any thing that the eye could reach is a created (being) and any created being needs a creator. Thus, (if one could see his Lord by his eye) the eye has made Him a created being, not eternal. He who likens Him to His creatures has indeed taken associates with Allah. Woe onto them! Haven't they heard that Allah said: 'Visions can not reach Him, and He reaches to all visions, and He is Subtle well-aware (of all things) (6:103)' and His saying: 'By no means canst thou see Me; But look upon the mount; if it abides in its place, then shalt thou see Me. When (the created light of) his Lord manifested to the Mount, He made it as dust (7:143)' Verily He revealed just an amount of His (created) light that could pass through the eye of a needle, which struck the mountain. 'And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: Glory be to Thee! To Thee I turned' from the saying of he who thinks you can be seen, and returned to my understanding of you that the sight can not reach you 'and I am the first to believe (7:143)' means the first to confess that you see and you are not seen."

- Kifayatul Athar, p260

- al-Bihar, v4, p54, Hadith #32

Finally in regards to this verse: Quran 11:37: "But construct an Ark under Our eyes and Our inspiration, does this verse literally mean God has physical eyes?

w/s

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Now, describe Allah's hands, shin, eyes and face for me. Pretty please with a cherry on top.

Please describe Allah's hands to me.

Yes please refer to my previous post (No 30)

Taykeef: This is done by attempting to determine the manner in which Allah’s attributes take form and also determining their essence. The method of taking names and attributes mentioned in the the Qur’an and Sunnah at face value, without any comparison, change, negation, nor taykeef is the method of the Companions, radi Allahu anhum, their followers and those who followed their followers, may Allah have mercy them to engage in, nor had they tarnished their worship with the innovation and in inquiring after His nature and essence. In those days religion was pure and devoid of all heresy....” (at tuhaf fee madaahibi as salaf p. 7)

Also here's a principle that Ahlus Sunnah follow regarding Allah's Attributes:

Allah's Hands are known, How is not known, Belief is obligatory, asking how or questioning is a Bida! (Imam Shafi)

Follow this as opposed to the understanding of the neoplatonists and you'll be guided insha Allah:

"And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say: "What did Allâh intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fâsiqûn (the rebellious, disobedient to Allâh). (Al-Baqarah 2:26)

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How can one tell a Wahhabi from a normal person?

He/she will always use double vowels, such as in the following post:

You try to slander us by calling us wahabbi but we are not upset by this as Al Wahhab is derived from Allah (The Most High) and is one of His Names - Al Wahhab: The Bestower of Gifts so we are proud to be associated with a name which is connected to our Lord

whereas Allah tells us in the Quran NOT to become Shias:

“…and be not amongst those who join gods with Allah, those who split up their Religion, and become shias (sects) - each party rejoicing in that which is with itself.”

(30:31-32)

The transliteration of the Arabic reads:

“Muneebeena ilayhi waittaqoohu waaqeemoo alssalata wala takoonoo mina almushrikeena.Mina allatheena farraqoo deenahum wakanoo shia an kullu hizbin bima ladayhim

farihoona”

So be careful when using terms that are associated with Our Lord Allah in a derogatory way....

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You try to slander us by calling us wahabbi but we are not upset by this as Al Wahhab is derived from Allah (The Most High) and is one of His Names - Al Wahhab: The Bestower of Gifts so we are proud to be associated with a name which is connected to our Lord

whereas Allah tells us in the Quran NOT to become Shias:

“…and be not amongst those who join gods with Allah, those who split up their Religion, and become shias (sects) - each party rejoicing in that which is with itself.”

(30:31-32)

The transliteration of the Arabic reads:

“Muneebeena ilayhi waittaqoohu waaqeemoo alssalata wala takoonoo mina almushrikeena.Mina allatheena farraqoo deenahum wakanoo shia an kullu hizbin bima ladayhim

farihoona”

So be careful when using terms that are associated with Our Lord Allah in a derogatory way....

This is not the first time he's using the term Wahabi. And no, we don't associate Wahabis with Allah (astaghfirullah), we NEVER would. We simply associate them with the name of the founder of this retarded school of thought. And by the looks of it, you aren't even denying that you are one. Expect a ban shortly, because debating against a Wahabi is like talking to thin air; whatever you say goes through air and isn't absorbed, so our time is simply wasted.

Wahabis are like cancer to the Muslim community, and are solely responsible for the discord between Shias and Sunnis.

Kthnxbye

Edited by Legio Invicta
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This is not the first time he's using the term Wahabi. And no, we don't associate Wahabis with Allah (astaghfirullah), we NEVER would. We simply associate them with the name of the founder of this retarded school of thought. And by the looks of it, you aren't even denying that you are one. Expect a ban shortly, because debating against a Wahabi is like talking to thin air; whatever you say goes through air and isn't absorbed, so our time is simply wasted.

Wahabis are like cancer to the Muslim community, and are solely responsible for the discord between Shias and Sunnis.

Kthnxbye

Brother its not fair to ban me cos i've said nothing hurtful or insulting in my previous post, its just an argument.

I have never initiated or condoned any form of violence towards the shia's, rather i am well known in my community to be shia friendly.

You'll be shocked to know that my best friend for over 15 years is a hardcore imami shia :o (Hence the interest in sunni/shia dialogue)

I tried to email you privately about this but i wasnt able to, so my brother don't judge me as i'm all about dialogue and respect the views of the shia, althought they are baatil...

Peace!

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You try to slander us by calling us wahabbi but we are not upset by this as Al Wahhab is derived from Allah (The Most High) and is one of His Names - Al Wahhab: The Bestower of Gifts so we are proud to be associated with a name which is connected to our Lord

So be careful when using terms that are associated with Our Lord Allah in a derogatory way....

A Muslim you should never distorts things intentionally. You are follower of Abdul Wahhab, so be proud of it and don't deny it by distorting things.

Yes, al-Wahhab is one of the many attributes of Allah. But not Abdul Wahhab bin (son of) .........

Astafgurullah, Allah is never bin (son of ) ......

The above is a very good example of distortion you practice.

Not only you distorts Islam and Quran intentionally, but you follow a khabees Abdul Wahhab bin (son of) ......... , who is a mass murderer, and who indiscriminately slaughtered many Muslims whether Sunni or Shia to lot from them.

Be proud that you follow Abdul Wahhab bin (son of) ......... and not Allah.

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A Muslim you should never distorts things intentionally. You are follower of Abdul Wahhab, so be proud of it and don't deny it by distorting things.

Yes, al-Wahhab is one of the many attributes of Allah. But not Abdul Wahhab bin (son of) .........

Astafgurullah, Allah is never bin (son of ) ......

The above is a very good example of distortion you practice.

Not only you distorts Islam and Quran intentionally, but you follow a khabees Abdul Wahhab bin (son of) ......... , who is a mass murderer, and who indiscriminately slaughtered many Muslims whether Sunni or Shia to lot from them.

Be proud that you follow Abdul Wahhab bin (son of) ......... and not Allah.

Man! you're trying hard to get me banned so i don't post on SC anymore...

Nice try aladdin

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Man! you're trying hard to get me banned so i don't post on SC anymore...

Nice try aladdin

Salam brother,

I have no intentions as such. One of my ustad is a Wahhabi and he has taught me a lot. We are all Muslims and we try to learn from each other. If we don' agree with each other doesn't mean we are not Muslims. Check out your statement as such:

Perhaps if the Qur'an was revealed in Persian it would make life easier for you but Allah's said "Verily, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'ân in order that you may understand". (Yusuf 12:2)

The only thing that is limited is the a'ql of humans so we mustn't try to use it to say about Allah that which he has given us no authority to say: Ahlus sunnah on the other hand don't deviate from the words Allah described Himself with in the Qur'an...

Take heed brother "Truly, those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, for them there is a severe torment; and Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Able of Retribution". (Aali Imran 3:4)

See how ridicules your above statements are. Which shows your ignorance.

1. Your prejudice against the Iranian Muslims, which includes Sunni as well.

2. Your prejudice against all Muslims, who are not Arab, which is based on the claim that Quran was not revealed in any other language beside Arabic. So anybody who doesn't know Arabic doesn't know the Quran, Islam and Deen.

3. I am pretty sure by now you realize lots of us here know Arabic, but we don't taunt others. Why, because there are Muslims here who are more well versed in Deen, even they don't know Arabic.

4. Arabic is not any criteria to know Islam. There are Arab Jews, Christians and even Atheists, they read and speak classical Quranic Arabic like pros.

5. You are telling others to "Take heed..", which again show your ignorance, if someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't mean that your are at the "straight path" and they are not.

My suggestions:

1. Don't use cut and paste (seen it many a time).

2. If someone responds to your cut and paste then take some time to read it and digest it.

3. Come back with your own reasoning, but not further cut and paste the same material over and over, or try to throw Quranic verses here and there.

4. Try to learn and teach others.

5. Try not to finger point and call Muslims, non-Muslims.

And, many others....

I pray to God that you stay here a long time. I pray to God that we learn from you and you learn from us.

Ameen Ya' Rabbi!

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  • 3 months later...
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Do either of you two know that Ibn Taymiyyah attacks mujassimeen?

this really made me laugh ! hilarious!

LOL! One of his famous lies and intentional misleading statement.

He probably has amnesia and forgot ibn Taymiyyah (la) descending down a step from the mimbar like Allah descents.

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