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mnaqvi

A Clarification Of La'anat

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(salam)

I have two questions regarding Aisha, the wife of the Holy Prophet(saw).

Q1) Why is it, or why is not permissible to curse Aisha. I'm aware that Imam Ali(as) forgave Aisha after the battle of Jamal, but I know (few) Shia's who think it acceptable to curse Aisha. Your views appreciated.

Q2) Are there Hadiths in Sunni Sahih, or even partly authentic books, wherein 'Sahabas' cursed Aisha? If so, I would appreciate a reference.

Thank You & Salaam Brothers & Sisters.

Before I try and answer this question to the best of my minimal and limited knowledge, let's clear up a few things:

1. The translation of "la'anat" in Arabic to "curse" in English is incorrect. The word "curse" has multiple negative connotations and meanings, many of which involve the use of derogatory language. The word "la'anat" when used in the context of our ziyaraats, duas, etc. means to "remove all mercy." Since we are pleading with Allah (SWT) to put His "la'anat" on X, Y, Z, etc. we are asking Him to remove all of His mercy from X, Y, and Z, etc..

2. The correct translation of the word "curse" in Arabic is "sab." This translation maintains all of the derogatory meanings. "Sab" is not allowed in Islam and violates the akhlaaq of the 14 Ma'soomeen and they are the best examples for us to follow and we should not do them a disservice by ignoring their teachings. Using derogatory/filthy language has a negative effect on our nafs even if we are addressing the worst people to have ever touched the Earth, and thus we should abstain from it.

Let's take a look at your questions while keeping the aforementioned information in mind:

Q1) Why is it, or why is not permissible to curse Aisha. I'm aware that Imam Ali(as) forgave Aisha after the battle of Jamal, but I know (few) Shia's who think it acceptable to curse Aisha. Your views appreciated.

A1) It is not permissible to refer to Aisha with derogatory language; this is against the teachings of our Ma'soomeen.. However, it is permissible to do la'anat on her (keep the correct meaning of la'anat in mind). Yes, Imam Ali (as) forgave her in the sense that he did not require her to suffer a punishment for the mischief and mayhem she caused. However, the word "forgive" is not exactly the right word. Just because Imam Ali (as) did not punish her, it doesn't mean he forgave her for causing the deaths of many of his companions. Many Muslims were killed in the Battle of Jamal, and that blood is on her hands. Nevertheless, she disobeyed the Imam of her time, which according the Sunnis is not allowed and even makes you a kafir. She had enmity for Ahlul-Bayt (as), especially Imam Ali (as) and enmity of Imam Ali (as) is enmity of Allah (SWT). Does this alone not maker her worthy of la'anat? I'll let these ahadith speak for themselves:

Ahmad ibn Hanbal (d. 241 A.H.), Abu Abd Allah ibn Hilal al-Shaybani, reported from al-Bara’ ibn ‘Azib that he said: We were in the company of the Messenger of God, upon whom and whose household be blessing, on a journey when we stopped at Ghadir Khumm. He ordered the crier to call out: Assemble for prayer! So a spot under two trees was swept off for the Messenger of God, upon whom and whose household be blessing, where he performed the noon prayer. Thereupon, he took ‘Ali (may God be pleased with him) by hand and said: Don't you know that I have a great claim upon the believers than their own souls? To which they answered: Certainly yes! He said: Don't you know that I have a greater claim upon each believer than his own soul? To which they replied: Certainly yes! So he took ‘Ali by hand and said: For whoever has me as his master and guardian (mawla), ‘Ali is his master and guardian. O God! Befriend whoever befriends him and show enmity to whomever shows enmity to him! Thereafter, ‘Umar encountered him and said to him: May it be productive of enjoyment to you, O Ibn Abi Talib! You have entered upon the time of morning and evening as a master and guardian over every faithful man and woman. (Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, vol.4, p.281.)

According to the Hadith, Umm Salama is known to have said that Muhammad said:

"Ali is with the Truth (haqq) and the Qur'an, and the Truth and the Qur'an are also with Ali, and they will be inseparable until they come upon me at Kawthar."

al-Bahrani's Ghâyat al-marâm wa-hujjat al-hisâm, p.539, recounts the hadith in fifteen versions from Sunni sources and eleven versions from Shi'a sources.

In some versions of the hadith of the pond of Khumm there is an extra sentencethat is he (Muhammad) said:

"Wa dara al-haqq ma'ahu haithu dar", literally: "And the truth (the right path) turns with him (i.e. Ali) wherever way he turns."

Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, under the commentary of "al-Bismilah"

Q2) Are there Hadiths in Sunni Sahih, or even partly authentic books, wherein 'Sahabas' cursed Aisha? If so, I would appreciate a reference.

A2) There are many ahadith from Sunni Sahihs which don't exactly portray Aisha in the best light. Understand that as a Shia and a logical thinker, I do not consider all of these 100% accurate because they are many outrageous ahadith in these collections. I suggest you filter out what seems out of character for our Ahlul-Bayt (as) and believe what seems true. I am merely posting these because you wanted ahadith from Sunni Sahih.

Bukhari has recorded in the chapter "What happened in the houses of the Prophet's wives" in the book "Jihad and Travel" of his Sahih, vol 2 page 125, that while delivering an address from the pulpit, the Holy Prophet pointed towards A-isha's house and said: "Here lies the scandal; here lies the scandal; here lies the scandal, where the horn of Shaytan would be rising." In the words of Sahih Muslim: "The Prophet came out of the house of A-isha and remarked: "Here is the head of infidelity where the horn of Shaytan will rise." Refer to Sahih Muslim, vol 2

Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) We set out with Allahs Apostle on one of his journeys till we reached Al-Baida' or Dhatul-Jaish, a necklace of mine was broken (and lost). Allah's Apostle stayed there to search for it, and so did the people along with him. There was no water at that place, so the people went to Abu- Bakr As-Siddiq and said, "Don't you see what 'Aisha has done? She has made Allah's Apostle and the people stay where there is no water and they have no water with them." Abu Bakr came while Allah's Apostle was sleeping with his head on my thigh, He said, to me: "You have detained Allah's Apostle and the people where there is no water and they have no water with them.

So he admonished me and said what Allah wished him to say and hit me on my flank with his hand. Nothing prevented me from moving (because of pain) but the position of Allah's Apostle on my thigh. Allah's Apostle got up when dawn broke and there was no water. So Allah revealed the Divine Verses of Tayammum. So they all performed Tayammum. Usaid bin Hudair said, "O the family of Abu Bakr! This is not the first blessing of yours." Then the camel on which I was riding was caused to move from its place and the necklace was found beneath it. (Sahih Bukhari 1:7:330)

Narrated Aisha: A necklace of mine was lost at Al-Baida' and we were on our way to Medina. The Prophet made his camel kneel down and dismounted and laid his head on my lap and slept. Abu Bakr came to me and hit me violently on the chest and said, "You have detained the people because of a necklace." I kept as motionless as a dead person because of the position of Allah's Apostle ; (on my lap) although Abu Bakr had hurt me (with the slap). Then the Prophet woke up and it was the time for the morning (prayer). Water was sought, but in vain; so the following Verse was revealed:-- "O you who believe! When you intend to offer prayer.." (5.6) Usaid bin Hudair said, "Allah has blessed the people for your sake, O the family of Abu Bakr. You are but a blessing for them." (Sahih Bukhari 6:60:132)

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: Abu Bakr came and sought permission to see Allah's Messenger. He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came 'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah's Apostle sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Kharija when she asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah's Messenger laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr then got up went to 'Aisha and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah's Messenger which he does not possess. They said: By Allah, we do not ask Allah's Messenger for anything he does not possess…. (Bukhari volume 8, #828)

I hope I answered your questions, Insha'Allah let us all be guided to the right path.

Allah (SWT) knows best.

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You can also refer to this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s15T8mPrB-o

(salam)

Curious but from my experiences, why is it that whenever you guys post up these kinds of videos, it's always from a Sunni account?

Why don't you bring these kinds of proofs from our books??

w/s

Çááåã Õá Úáì ãÍãÏ æÇá ãÍãÏ

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You can also refer to this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s15T8mPrB-o

What bearing does this have on my argument? Rather than address my argument, you post a random video from some random scholar who is allegedly Shia.

However, since you decided to post this video, I'll address it. The scholar is wrong in condoning the use of bad language (or he may have misinterpreted the question), although he has the correct principle in mind, his methodology is incorrect. He clearly doesn't understand Tabarra and Laanat, maybe it would do him some good to read my post. Maybe it would do you some good as well. What was your purpose in posting this video? Is this one random scholar from some obscure video supposed to represent the viewpoint of every Shia or even the majority of Shias? What a baseless generalization.

Would you like me to start generalizing the views of a couple Sunnis?

Please give me the respect of a civil debate and address the argument. If you cannot do so, then it's more intelligent to keep quiet than make a display of ignorance.

“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”

-Mark Twain

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Would you like me to start generalizing the views of a couple Sunnis?

As long as you bring proper sources. Like I stated above, I can give the shia links to this scholar's view.

Please give me the respect of a civil debate and address the argument. If you cannot do so, then it's more intelligent to keep quiet than make a display of ignorance.

“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”

-Mark Twain

There is no ignorance here. He is a shia scholar and his clips can be linked back to a shia site.

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As long as you bring proper sources. Like I stated above, I can give the shia links to this scholar's view.

There is no ignorance here. He is a shia scholar and his clips can be linked back to a shia site.

You clearly misunderstood what I meant by generalization.

Your ignorance lies in the fact that you post a video by ONE alleged shia scholar and generalize his beliefs to the beliefs of all Shias. Is one alleged Shia scholar representative of the entire Shia sect?

And you have yet to address the argument.

Edited by mnaqvi

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To be honest, I don't see any difference between what the shia scholar said and what you posted. Neither of your post or his replies uses any narrations of the Imams themselves sending lanaat.

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If you want me to link this back to a shia site I can do that too. Its not a problem.

(salam)

Brother, can you please provide a link to a Shia site then, please?

Inshallah this is not wasting your time

Thanks in advance

w/s

Çááåã Õá Úáì ãÍãÏ æÇá ãÍãÏ

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To be honest, I don't see any difference between what the shia scholar said and what you posted. Neither of your post or his replies uses any narrations of the Imams themselves sending lanaat.

We have plenty of Ziyaraat and Hadith where the Imams (as) send laanat. Ziyarat-e-Ashura, Ziyarat-e-Waritha, and if you want I'll go get the hadith for you. The aforementioned ziyaraat were taught to us by the Imams (as).

If you do not see the difference between what I posted and what the man in the video said, then either you do not want to see the difference or you understanding of urdu/english is flawed.

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That guy is not a real Shia. He doesn't even wear the standard basic clothes of Shia scholars. A Wahhabi poser paid to impersonate a Shia, no doubt. And he's not very convincing.

And the Sunni brother will, I assure you, NEVER give you that purported link to a shia site.

Edited by Shia Shahid

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And the Sunni brother will, I assure you, NEVER give you that purported link to a shia site.

(salam)

I want to see if he will stand up to his words

If you want me to link this back to a shia site I can do that too. Its not a problem.

May Allah guide us all

w/s

Çááåã Õá Úáì ãÍãÏ æÇá ãÍãÏ

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That guy is not a real Shia. He doesn't even wear the standard basic clothes of Shia scholars. A Wahhabi poser paid to impersonate a Shia, no doubt. And he's not very convincing.

These are not wahabi clothes. These are clothes of his culture.

And the Sunni brother will, I assure you, NEVER give you that purported link to a shia site.

You are wrong. I am a man of my word.

http://www.qna.aliwalay.com/qna.php?id=956

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That guy is not a real Shia. He doesn't even wear the standard basic clothes of Shia scholars. A Wahhabi poser paid to impersonate a Shia, no doubt. And he's not very convincing.

And the Sunni brother will, I assure you, NEVER give you that purported link to a shia site.

I think you just got owned...

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I think you just got owned...

Actually I only said that he would never do it, simply to shame him into doing it. :shaytan: So my ego is not hurt at all. Lol I go owned, huh? Big deal. At least in any case he finally posted a link. :P

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These are not wahabi clothes. These are clothes of his culture.

You are wrong. I am a man of my word.

http://www.qna.aliwalay.com/qna.php?id=956

Abdaal

I went through the video, the scholar at no time says its alright to abuse the Ayesha. He is saying that we should "disassociate" with them and that is mandatory. Although in my opinion he should have also clarified that using foul language does not count as tabarra. But please bear in mind that the target audience are jafaris who "should" be knowing the difference.

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