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In the Name of God بسم الله

Game Of Chess In Islam

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All I want to know is that can we play chess

some people say it is haram

some say it is haram in few conditions

many say the game was not there in the times Prophet (SAWW)

I also heard something like yazeed(LA) or mamoon (la) playing it .that is why it is not allowed..

My question is that if this game is played in a certain limit and not as an addict to waste your time..is it allowed ????

PLzz sme1 describe this issue with proper hadi'th or Imam's Saying..

MOLA ALI_AS said:"Chess is a gambling of ajams" ....plz sme1 describe this saying b'coz what I get frm it is tht it is not allowed of played for money..(jua)

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(salam)

You can play chess as long as there is no gambling or betting if it is just for the game nothing to worry about.

Ayatollah Fadlullah Says on the matter:

Q: Are there certain guidelines for centers of entertainment and amusement games to know what is prohibited and what is allowed?

A: The issue of determining if the games of amusement are prohibited or allowed doesn’t depend on their nature but rather on the way every person makes use of them. For instance, once these games facilitate the way to deviation, and once the person becomes so addicted to them that he forgets his religious duties, social obligations and family responsibilities, then such games become doubtlessly prohibited. However, if they are taken for entertainment, and if no gambling or betting is associated, then chess or any other invented game is allowed.

http://english.bayyn...amusingames.htm

(wasalam)

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(salam),

^ I really wish you wouldn't express your Ayatullah's verdict, as if it is accepted by all other Ayatullahs. The least you could do is mention that other leading Ayatullahs, like Ayatullah Sistani differ. According to Ayatullah Sistani, playing chess is Haram in itself, even if it is a computer game (in which there is no gambling involved).

To the OP:

It really depends on who you follow. However even if we do consider it Halal, it is best to avoid it. There are a lot of other exercises you can do to keep your mind fresh and your brain healthy, other than play chess.

For reasoning behind the prohibition of chess, see:

http://www.al-islam.org/falsafa/85.htm

Also see Mahdi Modarressi's answer to a similar question:

wa (salam)

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^ I really wish you wouldn't express your Ayatullah's verdict, as if it is accepted by all other Ayatullahs. The least you could do is mention that other leading Ayatullahs, like Ayatullah Sistani differ. According to Ayatullah Sistani, playing chess is Haram in itself, even if it is a computer game (in which there is no gambling involved).

(salam)

It seems you have some misinterpretation going on here due to some hatred, and division. i never said all ayatollah's say the same thing i merely mentioned what is right on it from my side. the person above already knows some says it is haram here i presented my view and a word from my marja. really hope you do not make anymore assaults, and attacks and rash conclusions due to delusions on innocent opinions of other followers of a marja, you could have just presented your marja's view and let the person decide on what they think.

however

Perhaps you would like to consider Ayatollah Ali Khamenei about Chess let us take a look at what it says on leader.ir

Q: What is the ruling on playing chess with/without placing a bet?

A: From the mukallaf’s perspective, should it not now be considered among the instruments of gambling, there is no objection to playing it provided that no betting is involved.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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(salam)

It seems you have some misinterpretation going on here due to some hatred, and division. i never said all ayatollah's say the same thing i merely mentioned what is right on it from my side. the person above already knows some says it is haram here i presented my view and a word from my marja. really hope you do not make anymore assaults, and attacks and rash conclusions due to delusions on innocent opinions of other followers of a marja, you could have just presented your marja's view and let the person decide on what they think.

What hatred and division? :o All I said was that you should have mentioned that other Ayatullahs (may) differ. Your statement was:

"You can play chess as long as there is no gambling or betting if it is just for the game nothing to worry about."... and then you quoted Ayatullah Fadhlallah's verdict. You should know that people all around the world read this post of yours, and to a person who has no knowledge of Ayatullahs and their differing verdicts, will think this view, is standard Shi'ite view.

All I am saying is that your statement was saying that there's nothing to worry about, if there is no gambling involved; nobody will have any problem with you playing chess. It is almost as if, you do not recognize the verdict of another leading Ayatullah, as being a verdict.

I neither have assaulted or attacked you in my previous post, nor have I done anything similar in this one. Accept my apologies if you think I have.

however

Perhaps you would like to consider Ayatollah Ali Khamenei about Chess let us take a look at what it says on leader.ir

Just because two Ayatullahs have given one verdict, and another, something else, doesn't mean majority wins. Both verdicts are to be respected, and a person would do what who he follows says. In-fact, I would recommend he not play it at all, when he is aware that another leading Marja' has given an opposing fatwa. Why not take pre-caution and stay away from it, as much as you can, then?

(wasalam)

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What hatred and division? :o All I said was that you should have mentioned that other Ayatullahs (may) differ. Your statement was:

"You can play chess as long as there is no gambling or betting if it is just for the game nothing to worry about."... and then you quoted Ayatullah Fadhlallah's verdict. You should know that people all around the world read this post of yours, and to a person who has no knowledge of Ayatullahs and their differing verdicts, will think this view, is standard Shi'ite view.

All I am saying is that your statement was saying that there's nothing to worry about, if there is no gambling involved; nobody will have any problem with you playing chess. It is almost as if, you do not recognize the verdict of another leading Ayatullah, as being a verdict.

I neither have assaulted or attacked you in my previous post, nor have I done anything similar in this one. Accept my apologies if you think I have.

Just because two Ayatullahs have given one verdict, and another, something else, doesn't mean majority wins. Both verdicts are to be respected, and a person would do who he follows. In-fact, I would be recommended he not play it at all, when he is aware that another leading Marja' has given an opposing fatwa. Why not take pre-caution and stay away from it, as much as you can, then?

(wasalam)

(salam)

i will let your words speak for themselves,

I really wish you wouldn't express your Ayatullah's verdict, as if it is accepted by all other Ayatullahs

Two things above bold is division and disrespect for my marja and ita is a false accusation as i never claimed all ayatollahs say it is allowed.

See how you misinterpreted and assaulted my view by a false accusation?, even if i presented 99 ayatollah's saying it is okay you would still say that is only 99 ayatollah's.

and you just did it again. i am speaking my view not the others views, just as you spoke yours but you would want me to speak all sorts of differing views to confuse someone on something i see no harm in doing? that is confusing it's self.

so what i gather from your statement above is even if someone follows a marja that says it is allowed to play chess you would want him to not play it thus following your marja? am i right on what your saying? also if you "really" respect that another marja allows this you should have not said anything except what your marja says then if someone did not know that the opinion and ruling differs they would see it clearly.

In the end playing a game like chess comes down to Logic as it is only forbidden to gamble and bet, to say something is forbidden just because people betted with it is not proper. because if that is so then we would have to deem Soccer, sports, horse racing, even running, swimming,etc and many other things as haram just because some people may have betted over them even if we do not gamble or bet with them, if we went by the way of thinking that this is forbidden thus it is halal as long as no betting or any gambling takes places and it don't get in the way of duty towards Allah and family and what must be done first. why should someone feel shame for doing something that there is no harm in? also i am not new to the idea of "Conformity" so no one should be justified for a false accusation by anyone.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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Two things above bold is division and disrespect for my marja and ita is a false accusation as i never claimed all ayatollahs say it is allowed.

Yes, but you misunderstand me. I made it quite clear in my second post, that your post reflected the view that your Ayatullah's view is standard Shi'ite view. I did what I could to make you understand. If you are unable to do so, go do what seems best to you.

so what i gather from your statement above is even if someone follows a marja that says it is allowed to play chess you would want him to not play it thus following your marja? am i right on what your saying? also if you "really" respect that another marja allows this you should have not said anything except what your marja says then if someone did not know that the opinion and ruling differs they would see it clearly.

In the end playing a game like chess comes down to Logic as it is only forbidden to gamble and bet, to say something is forbidden just because people betted with it is not proper. because if that is so then we would have to deem Soccer, sports, horse racing, even running, swimming,etc and many other things as haram just because some people may have betted over them even if we do not gamble or bet with them, if we went by the way of thinking that this is forbidden thus it is halal as long as no betting or any gambling takes places and it don't get in the way of duty towards Allah and family and what must be done first. why should someone feel shame for doing something that there is no harm in? also i am not new to the idea of "Conformity" so no one should be justified for a false accusation by anyone.

(wasalam)

Your second para in the above quote, completely contradicts your first one. You say that I *somehow* accused your Marja of something, and then you yourself are accusing my Marja, and trying to say why my Marja is wrong, and yours is right. It is not me, but you, who is being assaultive. Since you have decided to consider your Marja's verdict, as something that can not be wrong, then it is useless arguing with you.

wa (salam)

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Yes, but you misunderstand me. I made it quite clear in my second post, that your post reflected the view that your Ayatullah's view is standard Shi'ite view. I did what I could to make you understand. If you are unable to do so, go do what seems best to you.

Your second para in the above quote, completely contradicts your first one. You say that I *somehow* accused your Marja of something, and then you yourself are accusing my Marja, and trying to say why my Marja is wrong, and yours is right. It is not me, but you, who is being assaultive. Since you have decided to consider your Marja's verdict, as something that can not be wrong, then it is useless arguing with you.

wa (salam)

(salam)

Basim, You said "Since you have decided to consider your Marja's verdict, as something that can not be wrong" i would like to ask you have you not done the same thing? of course i agree with my marja and i did not say yours is wrong, i am speaking my side and my view and in agreement with my marja. you are free to reflect what your marja says. but by saying something i did not say and saying that you wish i did not speak it like a way that i did not speak it. is a false accusation. show me where i said all ayatollahs agree that chess is permissible? and yes you are not going to change my view on the matter no matter what your marja says because i am not his follower, his followers will agree with you and not with me. so why are you even trying to argue with some people whom do not follow your marja? discourse is for people who are interested in considering your views, not for people who have already made up their minds as to what is right or wrong. where as if you just disagree because your marja disagrees you only need to reflect his position and not debate or try to prove anyone wrong.

so to conclude this instead of saying i wish you would not say this or implying that i meant something i did not or saying i must agree with your marja or confuse the one asking with a jumbled assortment of answers. why do we not just speak our views weather we disagree and let the person seeking the answer decide what is best for them?

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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(salam),

^ I really wish you wouldn't express your Ayatullah's verdict, as if it is accepted by all other Ayatullahs. The least you could do is mention that other leading Ayatullahs, like Ayatullah Sistani differ. According to Ayatullah Sistani, playing chess is Haram in itself, even if it is a computer game (in which there is no gambling involved).

To the OP:

It really depends on who you follow. However even if we do consider it Halal, it is best to avoid it. There are a lot of other exercises you can do to keep your mind fresh and your brain healthy, other than play chess.

For reasoning behind the prohibition of chess, see:

http://www.al-islam.org/falsafa/85.htm

Also see Mahdi Modarressi's answer to a similar question:

wa (salam)

Salamz

This is the problem with this website, everybody attacks eachother, without valid ground. Who are you, to attack Theunknownpreacher, all he did was manifest his marjaas views, it is not his responsiblity to provide a list of all the marajaa, because he dosent pertain to them. The Marjaa Fadhallah IS a shia school of thought and respected by the other marajjaa. Unknwonpreacher didnt in any way suggest that the rulings of this marjaa is universal to all shiites.

I dont see how Unknown preacher did anything wrong, please delve into contemplation into what you have said to this man, and let islam be the forefront of your words. By that, iam alluding to the literal meaning of islam, that being peace.

Salam alaikom

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Salamz

This is the problem with this website, everybody attacks eachother, without valid ground. Who are you, to attack Theunknownpreacher, all he did was manifest his marjaas views, it is not his responsiblity to provide a list of all the marajaa, because he dosent pertain to them.

Salaams,

It was in his manner of matter of fact stating something to be halal as if it's a open and shut case, while in fact it is halal according to his specific marja`. As the brother Basim mentioned above, according to Sayyid Sistani (who is likely the marja` with the most followers in the Shi`a world today) it is completely haram, betting or no betting involved.

The Marjaa Fadhallah IS a shia school of thought and respected by the other marajjaa.

Not really. A number of top maraji` have in fact stated it to be invalid to do the taqlid of Sayyid Fadlullah, going so far as saying he is astray and leading astray, something that is hardly ever done with other mujtahideen they may differ with on different issues.

and let islam be the forefront of your words.

Excellent words. So let us turn to what our Imams (as) taught on this subject:

(12442 6) ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÝÖÇá¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÚÞÈÉ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÈßíÑ¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) Ãäå ÓÆá Úä ÇáÔØÑäÌ æÚä áÚÈÉ ÔÈíÈ ÇáÊí íÞÇá áåÇ: áÚÈÉ ÇáÇãíÑ æÚä áÚÈÉ ÇáËáÇË ÝÞÇá: ÃÑÃíÊß ÅÐÇ ãíÒ ÇáÍÞ ãä ÇáÈÇØá ãÚ ÃíåãÇ íßæä¿ ÞÇá: ÞáÊ: ãÚ ÇáÈÇØá¡ ÞÇá: ÝáÇ ÎíÑ Ýíå.

Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Faddal from `Ali b. `Uqba from Ibn Bukayr from Zurara from Abu `Abdillah (as) that he was asked about chess and about the youth’s game that is called “the commander’s game” (la`bat al-amir) and about the game of three (la`bat ath-thalath). So he said: Do you see, when the truth (al-haqq) is distinguished from the false (al-batil), with which of them is it? He said: I said: With the false. He said: So there is no good in it. (muwaththaq)

(12448 12) Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÍãÇÏ Èä ÚíÓì ÞÇá: ÏÎá ÑÌá ãä ÇáÈÕÑííä Úáì ÃÈí ÇáÍÓä ÇáÇæá (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÝÞÇá áå: ÌÚáÊ ÝÏÇß Åäí ÃÞÚÏ ãÚ Þæã íáÚÈæä ÈÇáÔØÑäÌ æáÓÊ ÃáÚÈ ÈåÇ æáßä ÃäÙÑ ÝÞÇá: ãÇáß æáãÌáÓ áÇ íäÙÑ Çááå Åáì Ãåáå.

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Hammad b. `Isa. He said: A man from the Basrans entered upon Abu ‘l-Hasan the First (as), so he said to him: May I be your sacrifice. I sit with a people who are playing chess, but I do not play it, rather, I look. So he said: What do you have to do with a gathering which Allah will not look to its people. (hasan)

(12449 13) Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä åÇÑæä Èä ãÓáã¡ Úä ãÓÚÏÉ Èä ÒíÇÏ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) Ãäå ÓÆá Úä ÇáÔØÑäÌ ÝÞÇá: ÏÚæÇ ÇáãÌæÓíÉ áÇåáåÇ áÚäåÇ Çááå.

`Ali b. Ibrahim from Harun b. Muslim from Mas`ada b. Ziyad from Abu `Abdillah (as), that he was asked about chess. So he said: Leave Magianism (al-Majusiyya)* to its people, Allah curse it. (sahih `ala ‘zh-zhahir)

ãÍãÏ Èä ÅÏÑíÓ Ýí ÂÎÑ ( ÇáÓÑÇÆÑ ) äÞáÇ ãä ßÊÇÈ ÌÇãÚ ÇáÈÒäØí ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÈÕíÑ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá : ÈíÚ ÇáÔØÑäÌ ÍÑÇã ¡ æÃßá Ëãäå ÓÍÊ ¡ æÇÊÎÇÐåÇ ßÝÑ ¡ æÇááÚÈ ÈåÇ ÔÑß ¡ æÇáÓáÇã Úáì ÇááÇåí ÈåÇ ãÚÕíÉ æßÈíÑÉ ãæÈÞÉ ¡ æÇáÎÇÆÖ ÝíåÇ íÏå ßÇáÎÇÆÖ íÏå Ýí áÍã ÇáÎäÒíÑ ¡ áÇ ÕáÇÉ áå ÍÊì íÛÓá íÏå ßãÇ íÛÓáåÇ ãä ãÓ áÍã ÇáÎäÒíÑ ¡ æÇáäÇÙÑ ÅáíåÇ ßÇáäÇÙÑ Ýí ÝÑÌ Ããå ¡ æÇááÇåí ÈåÇ æÇáäÇÙÑ ÅáíåÇ Ýí ÍÇá ãÇ íáåí ÈåÇ ¡ æÇáÓáÇã Úáì ÇááÇåí ÈåÇ Ýí ÍÇáÊå Êáß Ýí ÇáÇËã ÓæÇÁ ¡ æãä ÌáÓ Úáì ÇááÚÈ ÈåÇ ÝÞÏ ÊÈæà ãÞÚÏå ãä ÇáäÇÑ ¡ æßÇä ÚíÔå Ðáß ÍÓÑÉ Úáíå Ýí ÇáÞíÇãÉ ¡ æÅíÇß æãÌÇáÓÉ ÇááÇåí æÇáãÛÑæÑ ÈáÚÈåÇ ¡ ÝÅäåÇ ãä ÇáãÌÇáÓ ÇáÊí ÈÇÁ ÃåáåÇ ÈÓÎØ ãä Çááå ¡ íÊæÞÚæäå Ýí ßá ÓÇÚÉ ÝíÚãß ãÚåã .

Muhammad b. Idris at the end of as-Sara’ir, relating from the book Jami` al-Bazanti from Abu Basir from Abu `Abdillah (as). He said: The sale of chess is haram, and the consuming of its value is forbidden, and taking it is kufr, and playing with it is shirk, and salam upon the one playing it is a sin and a grave offense, and the one who plunges his hand in it is as the one who plunges his hand in pig’s flesh, there is no salat for him until he washes his hand as he washes it from touching pig’s flesh, and the one who looks to it is as the one who looks to his mother’s private, and the one who plays it and the one who looks to it are in a state so long as it is played, and (giving) salam upon the one playing it in this his state is equal in sin, and one who sits down for playing it has chosen his seat from the Fire, and his subsistence shall be regret in the Resurrection, and beware of social intercourse with the player and deception by its playing, for verily it is amongst the gatherings whose people have brought back malcontent from Allah, they anticipate it in every hour, so you are included with them. (sahih)

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/forbidden-transactions/chess

With all that in mind, seeing how strongly the Imams (as) spoke against this game, why would anyone in their right mind still dare to play it?

Salam alaikom

wa `alaykum as-salaam wa rahmatullah

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Salaams,

It was in his manner of matter of fact stating something to be halal as if it's a open and shut case, while in fact it is halal according to his specific marja`. As the brother Basim mentioned above, according to Sayyid Sistani (who is likely the marja` with the most followers in the Shi`a world today) it is completely haram, betting or no betting involved.

Not really. A number of top maraji` have in fact stated it to be invalid to do the taqlid of Sayyid Fadlullah, going so far as saying he is astray and leading astray, something that is hardly ever done with other mujtahideen they may differ with on different issues.

Excellent words. So let us turn to what our Imams (as) taught on this subject:

(12442 6) محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن ابن فضال، عن علي بن عقبة، عن ابن بكير، عن زرارة، عن أبي عبدالله (عليه السلام) أنه سئل عن الشطرنج وعن لعبة شبيب التي يقال لها: لعبة الامير وعن لعبة الثلاث فقال: أرأيتك إذا ميز الحق من الباطل مع أيهما يكون؟ قال: قلت: مع الباطل، قال: فلا خير فيه.

Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Faddal from `Ali b. `Uqba from Ibn Bukayr from Zurara from Abu `Abdillah (as) that he was asked about chess and about the youth's game that is called "the commander's game" (la`bat al-amir) and about the game of three (la`bat ath-thalath). So he said: Do you see, when the truth (al-haqq) is distinguished from the false (al-batil), with which of them is it? He said: I said: With the false. He said: So there is no good in it. (muwaththaq)

(12448 12) علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن حماد بن عيسى قال: دخل رجل من البصريين على أبي الحسن الاول (عليه السلام) فقال له: جعلت فداك إني أقعد مع قوم يلعبون بالشطرنج ولست ألعب بها ولكن أنظر فقال: مالك ولمجلس لا ينظر الله إلى أهله.

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Hammad b. `Isa. He said: A man from the Basrans entered upon Abu 'l-Hasan the First (as), so he said to him: May I be your sacrifice. I sit with a people who are playing chess, but I do not play it, rather, I look. So he said: What do you have to do with a gathering which Allah will not look to its people. (hasan)

(12449 13) علي بن إبراهيم، عن هارون بن مسلم، عن مسعدة بن زياد، عن أبي عبدالله (عليه السلام) أنه سئل عن الشطرنج فقال: دعوا المجوسية لاهلها لعنها الله.

`Ali b. Ibrahim from Harun b. Muslim from Mas`ada b. Ziyad from Abu `Abdillah (as), that he was asked about chess. So he said: Leave Magianism (al-Majusiyya)* to its people, Allah curse it. (sahih `ala 'zh-zhahir)

محمد بن إدريس في آخر ( السرائر ) نقلا من كتاب جامع البزنطي ، عن أبي بصير ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : بيع الشطرنج حرام ، وأكل ثمنه سحت ، واتخاذها كفر ، واللعب بها شرك ، والسلام على اللاهي بها معصية وكبيرة موبقة ، والخائض فيها يده كالخائض يده في لحم الخنزير ، لا صلاة له حتى يغسل يده كما يغسلها من مس لحم الخنزير ، والناظر إليها كالناظر في فرج أمه ، واللاهي بها والناظر إليها في حال ما يلهي بها ، والسلام على اللاهي بها في حالته تلك في الاثم سواء ، ومن جلس على اللعب بها فقد تبوأ مقعده من النار ، وكان عيشه ذلك حسرة عليه في القيامة ، وإياك ومجالسة اللاهي والمغرور بلعبها ، فإنها من المجالس التي باء أهلها بسخط من الله ، يتوقعونه في كل ساعة فيعمك معهم .

Muhammad b. Idris at the end of as-Sara'ir, relating from the book Jami` al-Bazanti from Abu Basir from Abu `Abdillah (as). He said: The sale of chess is haram, and the consuming of its value is forbidden, and taking it is kufr, and playing with it is shirk, and salam upon the one playing it is a sin and a grave offense, and the one who plunges his hand in it is as the one who plunges his hand in pig's flesh, there is no salat for him until he washes his hand as he washes it from touching pig's flesh, and the one who looks to it is as the one who looks to his mother's private, and the one who plays it and the one who looks to it are in a state so long as it is played, and (giving) salam upon the one playing it in this his state is equal in sin, and one who sits down for playing it has chosen his seat from the Fire, and his subsistence shall be regret in the Resurrection, and beware of social intercourse with the player and deception by its playing, for verily it is amongst the gatherings whose people have brought back malcontent from Allah, they anticipate it in every hour, so you are included with them. (sahih)

http://www.tashayyu....nsactions/chess

With all that in mind, seeing how strongly the Imams (as) spoke against this game, why would anyone in their right mind still dare to play it?

wa `alaykum as-salaam wa rahmatullah

(salam)

so your at it again, hmm still waiting for aba abdallah to log on and check his messages about you :) and nope the fact that i stated only my marja's view is a fact of whom i was referring to and where my view comes from.

and this

Sayyid Sistani (who is likely the marja` with the most followers in the Shi`a world today)

= Arrogance (your numbers cannot elate you)

also you state hadiths but to become an ayatollah one must be educated in depth in ilm rijal. are you more educated then an ayatollah to be using hadiths like this to prove an ayatollah wrong? you assault brothers like jondab for using rijal on hadiths but you also assault men who have been educated their whole lifes on ilm rijal like ayatollah fadlulllah, interesting i hope everyone sees this about you insha Allah

Everyone reading should take a note of this that admin macissac and some mods and some members such as basim above here have a grudge against me and some other members on this board. we are the wrench in their works. the mud below their tire. and the anvil above their heads.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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^ Grow up.

Go get your father or brother or a friend to read the posts made in reply to you without you telling them what you feel is being said and you'll realize how narrow minded and sensitive you're being. I'm not joking, do it, because they are the only people you will listen to.

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^ Grow up.

Go get your father or brother or a friend to read the posts made in reply to you without you telling them what you feel is being said and you'll realize how narrow minded and sensitive you're being. I'm not joking, do it, because they are the only people you will listen to.

(salam)

May Allah forgive you! and you seem to be missing what is happening here since ayatollah fadlullah is an enemy to the west because he speaks against people like israel and it's allies (and to israel) these people are trying to degrade him and anything he says (therefore preventing anyone from following him or listening to him or even being at unity with his followers) .even ayatollah ali khamenei sends representatives to ayatollah fadlullah to see how his health is and seek his advise. do many of you know you are helping israel. and your helping them to degrade people who are standing up for him.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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^ Okay let me try to make things more understandable for you, please listen to me with an open mind.

In shia islam there are many different ayatullahs with different views on things, right? We don't know which ayatullah the OP follows, so when he came in here and asked what the ruling on playing chess is, he likely wants the ruling of his marjaa, even if he doesn't understand this yet.

But lets say he doesn't want the ruling of his marja, just the view of shiasm regarding the matter on its own ok? He comes in here and asks what the view of shiasm is regarding playing chess, and in your reply to him you told him that it is halal to play chess and that he has nothing to worry about.

Okay, this is fine for you up to here because according to your marjaa it is fine, however, lets imagine that he follows a different marja3. If he listens to you when his marja says that it is haram, in the end if it is indeed haram then he will be held accountable for his sins since he went against his marja, his marja is no longer accountable.

Also, Bassim was pointing out that the tone of voice in your post and the way that you stated that it is halal 100% is as if you are stating that the opinions of all the other marjas don't matter and don't reflect shiasm, simply because one marja3, yours, states that it is halal to play chess. He advised that next time when giving somebody a ruling you should specifically say that according to such and such marja it is halal, and not state it is halal as if there is no dispute amongst marjas.

I hope i have been clear so far?

Now, once you felt that Bassim was attacking your marja3 personally for whatever reason, you made this claim: "The Marjaa Fadhallah IS a shia school of thought and respected by the other marajjaa."

The reply that macisaac made to you was not to belittle sayed fadlallah or anything of the sort, but directly in reply to a claim that you made. You said that he is respected by the other marajaa, but this is in fact not the case, as like macisaac said, many of them stand against him and have made his taqlid haram. He did not say this is his view or that sayed fadlallah is evil and shouldn't be followed, he simply stated that your statement isn't true because there are marjas who are against him.

Do you understand up to here as well?

Now i don't know about their opinion of you or attacking you in different threads or being against you, etc etc. I am telling you what is going on in this thread. Maybe what you are saying about different threads is true, but i know for a fact that what you are seeing in this thread isn't, and it is probably a manifestation of your paranoia regarding what is happening in others. That's why i suggested you get somebody else to read it and give their opinion, because you cant see outside your experiences, you aren't able to be objective, and you need a third party to let you see what is really going on.

So i sincerely hope that you do now.

Wasalam.

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Salaams,

It was in his manner of matter of fact stating something to be halal as if it's a open and shut case, while in fact it is halal according to his specific marja`. As the brother Basim mentioned above, according to Sayyid Sistani (who is likely the marja` with the most followers in the Shi`a world today) it is completely haram, betting or no betting involved.

This is transparent ignorance. Subsequent to Preachers statement, he wrote that it is a view upheld by Sayyid Fadhallulah. Why do you ignore that? Clearly, he mentioned that it is a fatwa pertaining to Fadhallah. And as a response, Basim wrote the view upheld by Sayed Sistani. Note that Basim, scrutinised Preacher because he mentioned a view, and said that he must provide all fatwas. This is a strong contradiction ahahha. Why is it that he can get away with not providing all the fatawii whilst Preacher is scruitinised. If you tell me that you are not attacking him based on what he said but rather on a personal level because of the fact that he follows Fadhallah, then ok, i will understand where you are coming from, and most likely pity for you. But if your trying to justify Basim for scrutinising this man, because he expressed a view that was legitimate as it was backed up by the title 'Fadhalla' then i will not be convinced.

Not really. A number of top maraji` have in fact stated it to be invalid to do the taqlid of Sayyid Fadlullah, going so far as saying he is astray and leading astray, something that is hardly ever done with other mujtahideen they may differ with on different issues.

Regardless, Mohammed Fadhallah is a shia marja, and this website is called Shiachat. So i dont see why hes fatwas cannot be expressed on this website. If you have a problem with this marja, then perhaps ask for the website to be changed to Sayedsistanichat.org. But, i dont see how you have the rite to scrutinise him if it is called Shiachat.

Moreover, you have just reinforced my opinion in that this is not about his post, rather it is a personal conflict with him by bellittling the status of Sayid Fadhlullah.

Excellent words. So let us turn to what our Imams (as) taught on this subject:

(12442 6) ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÝÖÇá¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÚÞÈÉ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÈßíÑ¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) Ãäå ÓÆá Úä ÇáÔØÑäÌ æÚä áÚÈÉ ÔÈíÈ ÇáÊí íÞÇá áåÇ: áÚÈÉ ÇáÇãíÑ æÚä áÚÈÉ ÇáËáÇË ÝÞÇá: ÃÑÃíÊß ÅÐÇ ãíÒ ÇáÍÞ ãä ÇáÈÇØá ãÚ ÃíåãÇ íßæä¿ ÞÇá: ÞáÊ: ãÚ ÇáÈÇØá¡ ÞÇá: ÝáÇ ÎíÑ Ýíå.

Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Faddal from `Ali b. `Uqba from Ibn Bukayr from Zurara from Abu `Abdillah (as) that he was asked about chess and about the youth’s game that is called “the commander’s game” (la`bat al-amir) and about the game of three (la`bat ath-thalath). So he said: Do you see, when the truth (al-haqq) is distinguished from the false (al-batil), with which of them is it? He said: I said: With the false. He said: So there is no good in it. (muwaththaq)

(12448 12) Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÍãÇÏ Èä ÚíÓì ÞÇá: ÏÎá ÑÌá ãä ÇáÈÕÑííä Úáì ÃÈí ÇáÍÓä ÇáÇæá (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÝÞÇá áå: ÌÚáÊ ÝÏÇß Åäí ÃÞÚÏ ãÚ Þæã íáÚÈæä ÈÇáÔØÑäÌ æáÓÊ ÃáÚÈ ÈåÇ æáßä ÃäÙÑ ÝÞÇá: ãÇáß æáãÌáÓ áÇ íäÙÑ Çááå Åáì Ãåáå.

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Hammad b. `Isa. He said: A man from the Basrans entered upon Abu ‘l-Hasan the First (as), so he said to him: May I be your sacrifice. I sit with a people who are playing chess, but I do not play it, rather, I look. So he said: What do you have to do with a gathering which Allah will not look to its people. (hasan)

(12449 13) Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä åÇÑæä Èä ãÓáã¡ Úä ãÓÚÏÉ Èä ÒíÇÏ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) Ãäå ÓÆá Úä ÇáÔØÑäÌ ÝÞÇá: ÏÚæÇ ÇáãÌæÓíÉ áÇåáåÇ áÚäåÇ Çááå.

`Ali b. Ibrahim from Harun b. Muslim from Mas`ada b. Ziyad from Abu `Abdillah (as), that he was asked about chess. So he said: Leave Magianism (al-Majusiyya)* to its people, Allah curse it. (sahih `ala ‘zh-zhahir)

ãÍãÏ Èä ÅÏÑíÓ Ýí ÂÎÑ ( ÇáÓÑÇÆÑ ) äÞáÇ ãä ßÊÇÈ ÌÇãÚ ÇáÈÒäØí ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÈÕíÑ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá : ÈíÚ ÇáÔØÑäÌ ÍÑÇã ¡ æÃßá Ëãäå ÓÍÊ ¡ æÇÊÎÇÐåÇ ßÝÑ ¡ æÇááÚÈ ÈåÇ ÔÑß ¡ æÇáÓáÇã Úáì ÇááÇåí ÈåÇ ãÚÕíÉ æßÈíÑÉ ãæÈÞÉ ¡ æÇáÎÇÆÖ ÝíåÇ íÏå ßÇáÎÇÆÖ íÏå Ýí áÍã ÇáÎäÒíÑ ¡ áÇ ÕáÇÉ áå ÍÊì íÛÓá íÏå ßãÇ íÛÓáåÇ ãä ãÓ áÍã ÇáÎäÒíÑ ¡ æÇáäÇÙÑ ÅáíåÇ ßÇáäÇÙÑ Ýí ÝÑÌ Ããå ¡ æÇááÇåí ÈåÇ æÇáäÇÙÑ ÅáíåÇ Ýí ÍÇá ãÇ íáåí ÈåÇ ¡ æÇáÓáÇã Úáì ÇááÇåí ÈåÇ Ýí ÍÇáÊå Êáß Ýí ÇáÇËã ÓæÇÁ ¡ æãä ÌáÓ Úáì ÇááÚÈ ÈåÇ ÝÞÏ ÊÈæà ãÞÚÏå ãä ÇáäÇÑ ¡ æßÇä ÚíÔå Ðáß ÍÓÑÉ Úáíå Ýí ÇáÞíÇãÉ ¡ æÅíÇß æãÌÇáÓÉ ÇááÇåí æÇáãÛÑæÑ ÈáÚÈåÇ ¡ ÝÅäåÇ ãä ÇáãÌÇáÓ ÇáÊí ÈÇÁ ÃåáåÇ ÈÓÎØ ãä Çááå ¡ íÊæÞÚæäå Ýí ßá ÓÇÚÉ ÝíÚãß ãÚåã .

Muhammad b. Idris at the end of as-Sara’ir, relating from the book Jami` al-Bazanti from Abu Basir from Abu `Abdillah (as). He said: The sale of chess is haram, and the consuming of its value is forbidden, and taking it is kufr, and playing with it is shirk, and salam upon the one playing it is a sin and a grave offense, and the one who plunges his hand in it is as the one who plunges his hand in pig’s flesh, there is no salat for him until he washes his hand as he washes it from touching pig’s flesh, and the one who looks to it is as the one who looks to his mother’s private, and the one who plays it and the one who looks to it are in a state so long as it is played, and (giving) salam upon the one playing it in this his state is equal in sin, and one who sits down for playing it has chosen his seat from the Fire, and his subsistence shall be regret in the Resurrection, and beware of social intercourse with the player and deception by its playing, for verily it is amongst the gatherings whose people have brought back malcontent from Allah, they anticipate it in every hour, so you are included with them. (sahih)

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/forbidden-transactions/chess

With all that in mind, seeing how strongly the Imams (as) spoke against this game, why would anyone in their right mind still dare to play it?

wa `alaykum as-salaam wa rahmatullah

When i said, put islam in the forefront of your words, i was refering to its literal meaning, that being peace in that i was suggesting that we should uphold peace between eachother despite the differences in our opinions. I am seeing a pattern of ignorance here, Why do you keep ignoring the pivotal points i refer to. First you ignore that Preacher mentioned the view pertained to Sayidd Fadhlallah and now you ignore that i said i was alluding to its literal meaning, and you give me some hadiths which relate to the jurispendance of islam.

Also, just to show that iam replying in impartiality and with no bias. I myself, follow Sayid SIstani, and agree that Chess is prohibited, i donot need you to clarify that for me. What iam arguing upon, is the abuse of islam, in that someone is neglecting its true meaning which is peace. I respect preacher because all he did was provide a view by Sayid Fadhallah, someone he follows. If someone now, posts a view by Khomeini, then i will respect it too, because it is their fatwa, just as they would respect the view by sayed sistani. If we were to scrutinise eachother on every fatwa of the other marajaa, then shia will be split. Shiiites will become Khomeinis, Sistanis and Fadhalalas just as the rasool predicted 72 or 73 different sects. Suphanallah.

Salam alaikom

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^ Okay let me try to make things more understandable for you, please listen to me with an open mind.

In shia islam there are many different ayatullahs with different views on things, right? We don't know which ayatullah the OP follows, so when he came in here and asked what the ruling on playing chess is, he likely wants the ruling of his marjaa, even if he doesn't understand this yet.

But lets say he doesn't want the ruling of his marja, just the view of shiasm regarding the matter on its own ok? He comes in here and asks what the view of shiasm is regarding playing chess, and in your reply to him you told him that it is halal to play chess and that he has nothing to worry about.

Okay, this is fine for you up to here because according to your marjaa it is fine, however, lets imagine that he follows a different marja3. If he listens to you when his marja says that it is haram, in the end if it is indeed haram then he will be held accountable for his sins since he went against his marja, his marja is no longer accountable.

What???

Why on earth would he be accountable if HE CLEARLY wrote that it was a view pertaining to Sayidd Fadhlallah?? If the op ignores that Preacher wrote it is a view pertaining to Sayidd Fadhallah, then it is not Preachers responsibility, becase he provided the relevant facts.

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guys, be nice and don't argue!

many thanx

just a note...

Why on earth would he be accountable if HE CLEARLY wrote that it was a view pertaining to Sayidd Fadhlallah?? If the op ignores that Preacher wrote it is a view pertaining to Sayidd Fadhallah, then it is not Preachers responsibility, becase he provided the relevant facts

i wouldn't condemn what he wrote. however, when someone asks a question, it is more responsible to mention if there are several predominant views among educated ulama, or if there is a disagreement about something. a complete answer to the OP's question would require mentioning both viewpoints. i would say the same if someone said only that it is haram, in that it is worth acknowledging that there is another viewpoint (even if we don't hold it or agree with it).

i suppose "in islam" is a potentially vague question... one might ask "in a certain school of thought", "according to hadith", "according to the maraji'", etc

back to the topic.... anyway as mentioned above, there are many ahadith condemning it. ayatollah seestani and some others say it is absolutly haraam (haram mutlaq) for that reason.

some ulama such as aytollah khamenei say that it is ok because there are no evil associations with the game today and it is not seen as gambling, time-wasting, etc.

i avoid it myself because of the hadith and also b/c i am a muqallid of ayatollah seestani. this has presented a couple awkward situations, in that once i was working at a school and had to help out with the 'senior chess project'. when i was significantly younger and less adherent to details i used to play once in a while and i wouldn't mind playing once in a while if it were permissible, but i prefer to be cautious now and avoid it absolutely.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Chess is a sport competition recognized by the Olympics. Some children may not be physically able to be involved in athletics, so chess may be something that they can participate in. If your marja says it is ok.

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Muhammad b. Idris at the end of as-Sara’ir, relating from the book Jami` al-Bazanti from Abu Basir from Abu `Abdillah . He said: The sale of chess is haram, and the consuming of its value is forbidden, and taking it is kufr, and playing with it is shirk, and salam upon the one playing it is a sin and a grave offense, and the one who plunges his hand in it is as the one who plunges his hand in pig’s flesh, there is no salat for him until he washes his hand as he washes it from touching pig’s flesh, and the one who looks to it is as the one who looks to his mother’s private, and the one who plays it and the one who looks to it are in a state so long as it is played, and (giving) salam upon the one playing it in this his state is equal in sin, and one who sits down for playing it has chosen his seat from the Fire, and his subsistence shall be regret in the Resurrection, and beware of social intercourse with the player and deception by its playing, for verily it is amongst the gatherings whose people have brought back malcontent from Allah, they anticipate it in every hour, so you are included with them. (sahih)

With all that in mind, seeing how strongly the Imams spoke against this game, why would anyone in their right mind still dare to play it?

Macisaac,

Look at this objectively and rationally. What is there in the game of chess in itself, separated from any practice of gambling, and played in moderation that could possibly merit such venomous condemnation?

Edited by kadhim
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Macisaac,

Look at this objectively and rationally. What is there in the game of chess in itself, separated from any practice of gambling, and played in moderation that could possibly merit such venomous condemnation?

Since he's just quoting the hadith, why not go to the source - you can ask Imam Sadiq (A), Imam Sajjad (A), etc, what they thought was wrong with it that caused them to give it such venomous condemnation. (As opposed to other forms of gambling or other things not done in moderation)

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Since he's just quoting the hadith, why not go to the source - you can ask Imam Sadiq (A), Imam Sajjad (A), etc, what they thought was wrong with it that caused them to give it such venomous condemnation. (As opposed to other forms of gambling or other things not done in moderation)

I can't ask them, seeing as they're dead. I'd ask their descendant, the current imam, but he's left us to fend for ourselves.

You can see very well above that he's not "just quoting the hadith." He's using the hadith as a bludgeon. The tone is essentially, "Here's the hadith; how could anyone even be stupid enough to think that chess is something that could be played. End of discussion."

From where I sit, the hadith Macisaac quoted is about as clear a proof as anyone could possibly imagine that the prohibition on chess comes from something other than the game itself. Unless you and Macisaac really think moving a pwn to King 4 is equivalent to looking at your mother's genitals or rubbing yourself with pork.

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Chess is a sport competition recognized by the Olympics.

Oh goody. Does that make watching women's beach volleyball halal?

I think we can safely rule out Olympic status as a criterion used in islamic fiqh.

BTW there are plenty of games that exercise the mind etc. and which have not been termed haram e.g. www.blokus.com and FWIW Bro Macisaac says he plays it :P

rubbing yourself with pork.

Why not look at it the other way? Is there any reason to play chess? Anything that makes it imperative to life? If there isn't, why not give the hadiths the benefit of the doubt and regardless of how much sense they do or do not make - just stay away?

Edited by Haji 2003
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Macisaac,

Look at this objectively and rationally. What is there in the game of chess in itself, separated from any practice of gambling, and played in moderation that could possibly merit such venomous condemnation?

(bismillah)

(salam)

In ancient time chess pieces were made from ivory. Najis (unclean) bones?

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Why not look at it the other way? Is there any reason to play chess? Anything that makes it imperative to life? If there isn't, why not give the hadiths the benefit of the doubt and regardless of how much sense they do or do not make - just stay away?

Because it's fun and intellectually challenging? If something being "imperative to life" were the operating standard, we wouldn't partake in any leisure activities period.

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Oh goody. Does that make watching women's beach volleyball halal?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Haji, chess cannot be compared to women's beach volleyball. The people, boys & girls, in the local or international chess competitions have to wear hijab.

If your marja says it is ok, you can play chess. If your marja says no, then you have to stay away from it.

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(salam),

Because it's fun and intellectually challenging?

All of these games are 'fun and intellectually challenging' too:

http://www.lumosity.com/

I say, even minesweeper (already installed on every computer) is intellectually challenging. Why would someone opt to play a game, discouraging which we have quite some ahadith?

wa (salam)

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(salam),

All of these games are:

http://www.lumosity.com/

I say, even minesweeper (already installed on every computer) is intellectually challenging. Why would someone opt to play a game, discouraging which we have quite some ahadith?

wa (salam)

Because there's no reason not to opt to play it, given that the traditional objections obviously deal with something other than the game itself, in itself. Again, unless you really believe moving pawn to king 4 is equivalent to looking at your mother's genitals or rolling around in pork.

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If your marja says it is ok, you can play chess. If your marja says no, then you have to stay away from it.

Agreed.

Because it's fun and intellectually challenging? If something being "imperative to life" were the operating standard, we wouldn't partake in any leisure activities period.

No, because not all leisure activities seem to attract this opprobrium from hadiths. There are plenty of other activities to choose from. We've actually been through this for a number of different things haven't we? And my assessment is that choice depends on people choosing one of the following two views:

1. The hadith/injunction is not clear/understandable, does not appear applicable to me and will cramp my lifestyle, I'll therefore do my own thing.

OR

2. The hadith/injunction may or may not be very clear, but if there is anything in it, it's there for my benefit (either in this world or the hereafter) so as a matter of precaution I'll abstain.

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(salam)

Basim, You said "Since you have decided to consider your Marja's verdict, as something that can not be wrong" i would like to ask you have you not done the same thing? of course i agree with my marja and i did not say yours is wrong, i am speaking my side and my view and in agreement with my marja. you are free to reflect what your marja says. but by saying something i did not say and saying that you wish i did not speak it like a way that i did not speak it. is a false accusation. show me where i said all ayatollahs agree that chess is permissible? and yes you are not going to change my view on the matter no matter what your marja says because i am not his follower, his followers will agree with you and not with me. so why are you even trying to argue with some people whom do not follow your marja? discourse is for people who are interested in considering your views, not for people who have already made up their minds as to what is right or wrong. where as if you just disagree because your marja disagrees you only need to reflect his position and not debate or try to prove anyone wrong.

No, I have not done 'the same thing', and Inshallah, will never do so. According to me, Ayatullah Sistani is a fallible Marja, and so is Ayatullah Fadhlallah; prone to making mistakes. You, on the other hand, accept anything you Marja says, and if you find any hadith against his verdict, you go, 'O he is a master in Ilm-ul-Rijaal, how can we debate with him?'...

Who's saying he isn't? All we are saying is that you must not forget that there exists another Marja, who also went through the same process of being a Marja, who is being followed by majority Usoolis, who has given a conflicting fatwa. When I said, it is best to avoid chess, I did not say Ayatullah Fadhlallah was wrong. If I followed him, I would have avoided it, since a Marja with a lofty status disagrees with him. It is part of respecting the other Marja's status as a Marja, and not disrespecting your own.

so to conclude this instead of saying i wish you would not say this or implying that i meant something i did not or saying i must agree with your marja or confuse the one asking with a jumbled assortment of answers. why do we not just speak our views weather we disagree and let the person seeking the answer decide what is best for them?

You did not understand what sis 3ashiqat-Al-Batoul said, did you? I very well know what you were trying to say, however, it doesn't really matter what you try to say. What matters, is what the reader understands of what you write. Re-read your post, I replied to. You say, there's nothing wrong with playing chess if there's no gambling, and quote Ayatullah Fadhallah's verdict, on the issue. A normal reader, would think, this view represents, standard Shi'ite view. On this thread, I pointed out, how wrong this person would think. I wouldn't have said anything to you, but if on another thread, you post something in a similar manner, people are bound to be misled, especially newcomers.

All I wanted to say, is that, you can at least include 'i.e. according to Ayatullah Fadhallah'. You, would think just pasting his fatwa is enough. But in reality, readers would not know that another Marja, of a high status, disagrees; since they would think, you only posted the fatwa to give proof for what you said.

That is all, I have to, and will say in my defence. I apologized once for anything offensive, and will not do so twice (just in case you might be expecting me to do so) , especially to memebers m.alg1, to whom not only do I not owe an apology, but who would unecessarily, and randomly attack people, in a discussion.

As for having a grudge against you, let me guarantee that I have no grudge against you. If I did, why would I apologize to you? Rather, I would expect an apology from you, which I don't.

wa (salam)

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(salam),

Salamz

This is the problem with this website, everybody attacks eachother, without valid ground. Who are you, to attack Theunknownpreacher, all he did was manifest his marjaas views, it is not his responsiblity to provide a list of all the marajaa, because he dosent pertain to them. The Marjaa Fadhallah IS a shia school of thought and respected by the other marajjaa. Unknwonpreacher didnt in any way suggest that the rulings of this marjaa is universal to all shiites.

I dont see how Unknown preacher did anything wrong, please delve into contemplation into what you have said to this man, and let islam be the forefront of your words. By that, iam alluding to the literal meaning of islam, that being peace.

Salam alaikom

You've been here for hardly a month, and you already know the problem with this site? I did not attack theunknownpreacher, and I have at least talked to him more than you. I have more right that you to object on his statement. I did not say he had to give all the fatwas of all the Marjas. I said, he had to mention that this was the view of only Ayatullah Fadhlallah. If you did not understand what people say, it is your problem, not mine, and I would not be obliged to offer you something in defence. I was talking to him not you, and objected on what his post suggested not yours; solely a discussion between me and him, which you butted in.

wa (salam)

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Because there's no reason not to opt to play it, given that the traditional objections obviously deal with something other than the game itself, in itself. Again, unless you really believe moving pawn to king 4 is equivalent to looking at your mother's genitals or rolling around in pork.

Obvious or not, if I am living my life aspiring to follow my Imam, and he has told me up, down, left, and right not to do something that I can reasonably refrain from..... then, out of respect, I don't do it.

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We have an aql and I promise you it is there for a reason. We should be able to look at the context of those haddiths and realize the game of chess used to primarily involve gambling and was condemned on those grounds, not because it is inherently evil itself. Chess today no longer involves gambling and is more about stimulating ones mind. It really isn't all that difficult to grasp. The amount of outrage on this thread, coupled with the irrationality, is laughable/frightening.

Anyway, Khomenei used to allow chess and used to play it himself (I know he allowed it, pretty sure he played it). That wouldn't be validation for me since I am rational, but a lot of you might find it comforting.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
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We have an aql and I promise you it is there for a reason. We should be able to look at the context of those haddiths and realize the game of chess used to primarily involve gambling and was condemned on those grounds, not because it is inherently evil itself. Chess today no longer involves gambling and is more about stimulating ones mind. It really isn't all that difficult to grasp. The amount of outrage on this thread, coupled with the irrationality, is laughable/frightening.

We do, and that explains the other rulings on that matter (in that there is a fiqh derivation that it is no longer allowed).

However, I put the intellect and understanding of my Imam above my own, and so, like I said, I follow on this one. I know that my intellect is very flawed and they were ma'soumeen. the Mahdi comes and says it's halal, then I will put the issue to rest.

I don't have an issue with people who want to take a different approach. However this is mine.

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Anyway, Khomenei used to allow chess and used to play it himself (I know he allowed it, pretty sure he played it). That wouldn't be validation for me since I am rational, but a lot of you might find it comforting.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Never ever read or heard that Imam Khomeini RA played chess. Didn't he read like 75 pages of the Holy Qur'an every day? Not sure he had the time to play chess.

Because there's no reason not to opt to play it, given that the traditional objections obviously deal with something other than the game itself, in itself. Again, unless you really believe moving pawn to king 4 is equivalent to looking at your mother's genitals or rolling around in pork.

(bismillah)

(salam)

In the time of the Prophet SA, chess was played with dice. Not good. Here is a quote during the 1980's when chess was banned by one of the Iranian mullahs:

"I respect the learned clergyman but he's referring to a chess that isn't played in our district," he said. "Chess has a very old history. Fourteen-hundred years ago, when Islam took root in Iran, there was a kind of chess played with dice. The only thing ruling the progress of pieces on the chessboard was luck. It had nothing to do with strategy and creativity; therefore, the Holy Prophet saw no benefit in the game -- he considered it gambling. But when dices were removed, chess became a science and an art."

http://www.foto-kino.com/clip-salon6.html

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