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In the Name of God بسم الله

Racism In Islam

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You would probably have to be African, African american or female to understand the depths of racism in Islam. Have you ever been as mosque and some "child" calls you a "[Edited Out]"? or you get called "black" once too often by someone who then tries to cover it up with oh, listen it's okay were I'm from there is no racism. It isn't okay fellow Muslims to live in this ignorance.

I would like to know from this forum who cares? Really do you know that Islam cannot reach its richness when more than half of its people are treated badly by the other part? I know that some cultures this is okay. To call blacks the bad words you've created such as slave, and other ignorant things. In fact its a real interesting phenomenom that black men are sort of crossing over into this I'm black but I'm not with them sort of attitude when it comes to AA women. I overheard two men, I won't call them brothers talking. "Hey brother, you married?"

"No man" "Well let me tell you, don't marry a black woman." Now both were black. I was standing nearby them and it was embarrassing to have this discussion going on in front of people of both sexes and all colors. In other words these "black"men were dissing black women as a form of entertainment and frankly they seemed to be more than buffoons in their attempts to step away from "us" and be seen as embraceable to everyone else.

What would the Prophet, pbuh, do? How would he handle men like this? What Hadiths strike at the gut of this bad behavior which is so predominant .

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You would probably have to be African, African american or female to understand the depths of racism in Islam. Have you ever been as mosque and some "child" calls you a "[Edited Out]"? or you get called "black" once too often by someone who then tries to cover it up with oh, listen it's okay were I'm from there is no racism. It isn't okay fellow Muslims to live in this ignorance.

I would like to know from this forum who cares? Really do you know that Islam cannot reach its richness when more than half of its people are treated badly by the other part? I know that some cultures this is okay. To call blacks the bad words you've created such as slave, and other ignorant things. In fact its a real interesting phenomenom that black men are sort of crossing over into this I'm black but I'm not with them sort of attitude when it comes to AA women. I overheard two men, I won't call them brothers talking. "Hey brother, you married?"

"No man" "Well let me tell you, don't marry a black woman." Now both were black. I was standing nearby them and it was embarrassing to have this discussion going on in front of people of both sexes and all colors. In other words these "black"men were dissing black women as a form of entertainment and frankly they seemed to be more than buffoons in their attempts to step away from "us" and be seen as embraceable to everyone else.

What would the Prophet, pbuh, do? How would he handle men like this? What Hadiths strike at the gut of this bad behavior which is so predominant .

you dont need hadeeths their minds are a gutter they are trash.

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Matter of fact is, muslims are more racist than western people because they are living in ancient times (in this regard I mean).

So basically the situation regarding racism in our societies is the same as the 1950s in the USA.

It might take time before things evolve in the right way.

I am glad the mosque I visit is held by khojas so we have people from Mauritius, Madagascar, as well as Arabs and Indians and white people together.

I love this place :blush:

Have to go for jumaa BTW

Salam

and to answer your question I think Quran is better than Hadith

"Oh mankind, We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may know (recognize) each other"

(Al-hujrat 49:13)

Edited by realizm
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i dont think muslims are more racist in contraray

i've heard some racist gestures from some muslims , naturally and luckly we dont claim we are saints or angels so

but they are no way compared to the gestures and racist comments from non muslim westerns and at least if you face a muslim with it he might try to justefy it on non racial angle but some westerns do really think that some races are superior to others as a fact so no comparision there

whatever sort of racism one faces he should put it in his cultural frame and tries to understand it rather to generaluise it on all muslim world

or worse attache it to islam

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i dont think muslims are more racist in contraray

i've heard some racist gestures from some muslims , naturally and luckly we dont claim we are saints or angels so

but they are no way compared to the gestures and racist comments from non muslim westerns and at least if you face a muslim with it he might try to justefy it on non racial angle but some westerns do really think that some races are superior to others as a fact so no comparision there

whatever sort of racism one faces he should put it in his cultural frame and tries to understand it rather to generaluise it on all muslim world

or worse attache it to islam

actually black women have a hell of a time with racism from muslims denial only benefits those that have au contrairre perspective and never suffer what they suffer. it is a fact and 'islam' hasnt stopped it.

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[salam sister,

I am disgusted and sorry that people have to face this type of behaviour. Alhamdulillah, where I live in London, I am seeing a constant increase in members of the black community attendin the mosque where I go. Seeing this integration makes me so happy cos it feels like this is how things in a muslim community 'should' be. Not sure if you know this but there can be thoughts of superiority amongst asians, arabs iranians too. IMO the culprits have poor social skills and knowledge so try to pick on anything they can to talk about. Though this has really wound me up in the past (I am asian and have also witnessed such silliness between diff. types of asians) now I just see it as the culprits being completely unislamic and they are going to get punished by Allah (swt) - hopefully tenfold for doing it under His roof! Try not to be phased by these people, or if you can, educate them in a calm and collected manner(which is what I try to do) so that they either change or think twice before doing it again. Maybe this is a test Allah has chosen to make you tougher or maybe so that one day you can go on to be a speaker/educator for such issues, either way He will be rewarding you for the difficulty you encounter for His sake. It is going to take time but with the amount of mixing increasing, I think relations can only get better. Members of my own family have married into the black community so naturally when their products arrived, I was very protective of them when entering a mainly asian environment, however, if anything, they receive more positive attention than other kids. So I feel I've learnt that there are a wealth of 'true believers' who are really enjoying this integration, as for any others - to hell with them really!

Du'as

your sister

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Racism isn't something I approve of, but it is certainly rampant in our communities. (Ex. Syeds only marrying Syeds, and thinking everyone else is beneath them; this happens with most cultures and sub-cultures, not just with syeds.) As for racism against blacks-- I haven't really seen that happen and I'm sorry if it has happened to you. There are many reasons that people don't talk about it. Some people are not actively ignoring the problem, they're just ignorant of the existence of the problem. Others are aware but don't really want to get involved when someone makes a negative comment. And in some communities, people are only aware of certain types of racism but not of others. I hope this improves.

Edited by BabyBeaverIsAKit
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(salam)

It is very disturbing to hear such a crude discussion. I think you should have told them off. I know it seems impolite to be speaking with brothers but someone should tell them they are being racist.

People should speak out about racism in their communities. I know I wouldn't be comfortable in any gathering where people demean people of other race, tribe, nationality or skin color.

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(salam)

It is very disturbing to hear such a crude discussion. I think you should have told them off. I know it seems impolite to be speaking with brothers but someone should tell them they are being racist.

People should speak out about racism in their communities. I know I wouldn't be comfortable in any gathering where people demean people of other race, tribe, nationality or skin color.

People become desenstized to racist comments and soon dont even recognize them as racist - they are apologistically accepted. Among some Muslims, it is culturally acceptable to make racist remarks if they are against selective ethnicities. Racism is not part of Islam, just the opposite, but it is not a battle that most want to take on, as exposing this behaviour as unIslamic is not popular. It is much easier to be a member of a passive audience, making excuses, silently accepting, than to stand up for what is Islamically correct.

Edited by Maryaam
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(salam)

Maryam,

You took the words right out of my mouth. I know how unpopular it is to speak out against racism. People will give you strange looks, wondering why aren't you on board.

While racism is sometimes tolerated in the Muslim communities, I have always found it to be the single most disgusting habit in a human being. If you are a racist then you are basically attacking something about a person that he/she cannot change.

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as salaam alaykum,

In my experience --as a black woman in the American Muslim community-- while black women may deal with a number of problems that stem from racism, black women don't necessarily have it the worst. While white women may be considered more desirable as wives or intimate partners (and not necessarily for flattering reasons), they are also saddled with some of the nastiest stereotypes regarding their chastity, intelligence and dedication to Islam in ways that few black women I've met have to tolerate. Sometimes when we are on the outside we assume that we have it worse than anyone else, but the truth is that racism (and classism) are big problems amongst just about every group. I've heard white converts make deeply racist and nasty statements about Arabs. A Pakistani student of mine told me that she hates Indians. A black friend confided in me that she doesn't "trust immigrants" because, in her opinion, they are more likely to operating as informants and agent provacateurs. A Lebanese person recently said that they don't trust or work with Iraqis (and noted that Iraqis were "cursed by Imam Hussain" (as)) and a S. Asian stated that he thinks Lebanese are thieves.

As far as the problems between men and women of the same group, well, ignorance does not confine itself to any racial group. Alhamdullilah that black women are spared men like that, pity the poor woman suckered into marrying a man who thinks that way.

This is the result of staying in our own little ethnic enclaves and not interacting with one another in *meaningful* ways. Even in mixed communities, people don't want to talk about painful truths because they think it will cause division. The divisions are already there and by ignoring them instead of having respectful, compassionate and honest dialogue we leave ourselves more vulnerable to our enemies both in the seen and unseen worlds.

Agreed. Too many divisions and support for divisions.

Edited by Maryaam
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Ammar Nakshawani Lecture on Islam and Racism:

LOL. Someone posted the same lecture on SC last summers and it was dissected thoroughly. The most obvious flaw in this lecture is that the method of approaching the issue is ineffective and anachronistic. Again, there is a difference between pious words and actually addressing the issue in contemporary Muslim societies.

Edited by Marbles
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Try being a Pakistani Punjabi Shia.

'Oh they are a bunch of malangs'

'Oh they don't do taqleed'

'Oh they just do matam and nothing else'

'Oh they don't pay khums'

'Oh they never read namaz'

I could go on but I can't be bothered. You will find plenty of it on this board.

Edited by minnie
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Salam to all,

Thank you for bringing up this important issue. I agree with you that racism exists within the Islamic world in general, however, we must remember that this is IN SPITE OF the teachings or our religion.

(bismillah)

" O mankind! We created You from a single (pair)

Of a male and a female, And made you into Nations and tribes,

that Ye may know each other.

Verily The most honoured of you

In the sight of God

Is (he who is) the most Righteous of you.

And God has full knowledge And is well acquainted

(With all things)."

Surat Al Hujarat, Ayat 13

So, in Islam, the only thing that distinguishes one Muslim from another (in the eyes of Allah (s.w.a.) is taqwa. If Muslims make up other criteria for judgement (of other Muslims), it is a deficiency in themselves that needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, this difficiency is common today.

What members of racial minorities (especially African Americans) should understand, however, about Arabs is that some of the perceived racism is unintentional and a result of culture and language barriers (although some of it is actual racism, of course). As a non-Arab, I had a hard time when I first became Muslim (and had a little understanding of Arabic) when I heard Africans (and African Americans) refered to as "Abid" (meaning slave) or "Aswad" (meaning black). What must be understood is that "slaves" in the Muslim world were much different then "slaves" in Europe or the U.S. They were (generally, but not in all cases) treated much more humanely then in the West and freeing them was seen as a good deed (and not as a crime, as it was in Western countries). Of course, slavery is no longer legal or tolerated anywhere in the world (including all Muslim countries), however, this is part of the cultural context of this term (which originates from a much different time). Also, the Prophet Mohammad (a.s.) was also known as "Abdullah" (slave of Allah (s.w.a.)), so the term "Abid" is understood in a different context by Muslims. The term "Aswad" is equivalent to being called "black" by someone who speaks English, and was in common usage (in the U.S.) until the 1960's.

Another point is that racism was never widely accepted (in an explicit way) in the Muslim world. Most Arabs (for example) are racially mixed due to their geographic location and also because they have been the crossing point for many different cultures throughout modern history. Racism was never codified into law in Muslim countries (as it was in the U.S., for example) and you will not find any sane Muslims who will admit that they believe they are superior because of their DNA or the amount of mellonine in their skin. This is not to say that racism doesn't exist in Muslim society (it does, I've seen it myself), but it's character is very different then among (for example) a W.A.S.P. community in the U.S. or Western Europe. This must be understood to properly address the issue.

I think to move forward on this issue we must have a much more open dialogue then what has happened in the past. I suspect the reason that the dialogue has not been very open is that racist idea's that exist in Muslim communities are usually discussed only among those who share the same opinion and these people may already suspect that their views are not supported by Islam.

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Agreed. Too many divisions and support for divisions.

Salaams Maryam

You know I have heard this before as if this is a belief that should somehow make me feel better that white women are seen as women with questionable virtue at best. Who cares what comes out in the wash is what matters. I once heard an Afghani man of people criticize Muslim blacks because he said we were the only one's who did plural marriages. And yes, one does see much too much of this among black men in Urban areas. As if they had some sort of fantasy world they lived in. The African american women I know don't want to be a second wife, and certainly won't share her husband but its one way to secure a husband, settle for half a man :Hijabi: . So even if white girls are supposedly looked upon this way, it doesn't seem to pan in the in the wash. A new white convert or a Christian white woman will find a husband at the mosque faster than a black woman who is on her deen.

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Salaams Maryam

You know I have heard this before as if this is a belief that should somehow make me feel better that white women are seen as women with questionable virtue at best. Who cares what comes out in the wash is what matters. I once heard an Afghani man of people criticize Muslim blacks because he said we were the only one's who did plural marriages. And yes, one does see much too much of this among black men in Urban areas. As if they had some sort of fantasy world they lived in. The African american women I know don't want to be a second wife, and certainly won't share her husband but its one way to secure a husband, settle for half a man :Hijabi: . So even if white girls are supposedly looked upon this way, it doesn't seem to pan in the in the wash. A new white convert or a Christian white woman will find a husband at the mosque faster than a black woman who is on her deen.

Wasalam Leda

The purpose of my comment was not to make you feel better; I have my own demons to deal with. However, I have said on more than one occasion that racism within the Islamic Shia community needs to be addressed and I am pleased that you posted this.

I dont see White women as having questionable virtue, or any other ethnic group for that matter - I am not privy to that info in my life and experience. Colour does not determine virtue, a complex host of other factors do. Sis Smiley is a white Christian convert and was quite clear that finding a spouse was not an easy situation for her based on her race - so there is no hard and fast rule. However, it is somewhat acceptable to make stereotypic comments about those new to Shiism - blacks and whites included.

I was agreeeing to the impact of so many divisons and excuses for divisions within the ummah - racially and politically - we slice and dice our communtiy with great gusto and then wonder why we are not united.

If you are interested in my views - I stated them in another thread

Here is the abridged version:

There is racism in contemporary Islamic communities.

Although there is a connecting thread in racism, it, for the most part, has little to do directly with contemporary issues of Black racism in America and Europe. Most of these racist tendencies within the Islamic community have been imported from Muslim countries in the ME and SE Asia. The racism is directed towards those outside of any specific ethnocentric group and to those of often vastly differing cultures, races and ethnic groups who wish to join the Islamic community – this definitely includes African Americans, but also includes others, such as those of European ancestry.

Islam models equality among peoples. We are not to distinguish between people based on these differences. However, too often, it has become so quietly acceptable, that is condoned by deafening silence for Muslims to stereotype races and ethnicities, discriminating against those who are different. This is especially apparent in multi-cultural settings. Racism and prejudice are “justified” by tribal laws or social customs, and by those who seek to exclude and shun on the basis of ethnicity.

There is silent or casual racism among Muslims, both against whites and blacks. The prejudice and discrimination towards a people of different colour or ethnicity which had existed among whites in 60s and 70s is now alive and kicking in Muslims. Racist diatribes, and a prejudiced attitude towards the ‘others,’ are tolerated in private circles. Oftentimes, this racism masquerades as the ‘opposition to Western way of life’. Our acceptance of casual racism sets the ground for further hate, division, and ghettoization of Muslim minorities in the West. We need to change our mentality first and foremost. Nothing good will come out if it is allowed to continue.

Then there are practical issues that need to be addressed within our communities:

• Masjids are open to all people and no masjid has formal racial policies. However, the number of masjids in any area depends directly on the number of Muslim ethnicities. With very few exceptions, masjids are uni-racial – if you don’t fit their racial profile you are out of luck. I think of all the threads I have read about converts to Islam having nowhere to go as they are essentially unwelcome. White convert Muslims have said repeatedly that they feel excluded.

• The real test of openness to other cultures is marriage. In Islam, there is no ethnic barrier to marriage. Islam superiority is not based on blackness, whiteness, Arabness or the lack of it. It is interesting to point out that White people who are always drenched in the guilt of their past crimes are now the most accepting of non-Whites. Whites are more likely to marry the Western dark skinned, either brown or black, than most Eastern Muslims.

• While some Muslims may justify marrying within tribal, ethnic or racial lines as a measure to ensure compatibility between husband and wife, it is Islamically incorrect to discriminate against Muslims on this basis. This discrimination is the current prevailing practice. In Arab culture today, there are prohibitions against Arab women from marrying a non-Arab.

• Ignorant Muslims in South Asia, influenced by Hindu culture, also will discriminate. They will not marry outside Syed lineage to the Prophet, people from one clan or caste won’t marry with someone from another clan or caste. For example, “Khans” and “Jats” will rarely entertain the idea of marrying outside the group. Similarly, Punjabis won’t marry Sindhis, Urdu speakers won’t marry Pashtuns

.

Perhaps racism against blacks was historically the most prevalent racism among Muslims – but, I don’t think that is true today. If the issues are not addressed within the context of the time they occur, Muslims will continue living in the past and produce an irrelevant, irrational and uneducated response to the challenges of the modern time. Leaders and educators in the ummah need to embrace this responsibility.

Just to be clear, addressing the ramifications of racism among other ethnicities absolutely does not replace addressing racism towards Blacks. There is no replacement of racism towards any one group but a need to acknowledge that it exists towards those of many of different races. It is not uni-directional nor linear.

Racism is a complex issue that affects people of many ethnicites and many races in many overt and insidious ways within the multi-cultural, multi-ethinic Islamic community.

Edited by Maryaam
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as salaam alaykum,

Actually, Leda, Maryaam was quoting me. She just happened to get my quote in before I deleted the post after deciding I didn't want to take part in the conversation. Clearly, those words were meant to be read whether I wanted them to or not, mashaAllah.

I have to say though, Leda, that with regard to marriage--once again, as a very dark skinned black woman-- I think the issues are more complex than racism. I had proposals or inquiries from many Arabs (Egyptians, Palestinians, Sudanese, Lebanese, an Algerian and a few Iraqis as I can recall off the top of my head) 2 American white men, a Burmese and two Iranians (maybe an afghani too, I can't recall) before I got married. Granted, I was a very pretty young woman, but most young women in their teens and early 20s are beautiful whether they realize it or not. I was also very conservative in my clothing (big scarves, jilbabs, no make up) and behavior (I never looked at men and really didn't talk to them). And my inquiries tended to be respectful--with the occasional slimy, cowardly married guy who wanted a secret muta or the guys who saw one big walking green card. Interestingly enough, the black American men (not the African brothers) were showing almost no interest.

One of the reasons I think you see less interracial marriage between black women and other men in our community is NOT because they don't find black women attractive (Believe me, they do! Especially Lebanese because they love women, all kinds of women, period.), but because they don't find us as accessible. White women are everywhere and on college campuses and in the workplace (where these guys are meeting these women) the perception is that it's much easier to hook up with a white woman than just about anyone else. Men decide on the odds of rejection before they approach a woman and are much more likely to approach a woman they feel won't reject them even if they are more attracted to another woman. Also, black American women are very loyal to black men, and many black women aren't even willing to look at men outside their race. This is changing dramatically with Gen Y and some of us at the tail-end of Gen X, but many of us think black men are the be all and end all of masculinity and no other man could possibly compare. Also a lot of us rightfully fear the cultural differences. Black Americans come from a culture where female strength and achievement is valued and partnerships tend to be more egalitarian, whereas many Arabs, Iranians, S. Asians etc. don't appreciate these qualities in women as much and it leads to cultural conflict.

I don't want to discount race issues, because they are real. A lot of our brothers in this faith have colonized minds and think that white women are better. These men have inferiority complexes and they also think white men are better than they are. Thank Allah (swt) they screen themselves out of our marriage pool, 'cause we'd be miserable with them. And there are the men who have managed to pick up stereotypes about black Americans (people really do think of Africans differently, ime) and, while you might want to educate them, would you want to marry them? But I know plenty of black women married to men of other races in our community (myself included). Quality is a different story, but we each define quality differently, and really, intelligent and morally upright human beings with good manners are in short supply regardless of race or gender.

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Salam to all,

What members of racial minorities (especially African Americans) should understand, however, about Arabs is that some of the perceived racism is unintentional and a result of culture and language barriers (although some of it is actual racism, of course). As a non-Arab, I had a hard time when I first became Muslim (and had a little understanding of Arabic) when I heard Africans (and African Americans) refered to as "Abid" (meaning slave) or "Aswad" (meaning black). What must be understood is that "slaves" in the Muslim world were much different then "slaves" in Europe or the U.S. They were (generally, but not in all cases) treated much more humanely then in the West and freeing them was seen as a good deed (and not as a crime, as it was in Western countries). Of course, slavery is no longer legal or tolerated anywhere in the world (including all Muslim countries), however, this is part of the cultural context of this term (which originates from a much different time). Also, the Prophet Mohammad (a.s.) was also known as "Abdullah" (slave of Allah (s.w.a.)), so the term "Abid" is understood in a different context by Muslims. The term "Aswad" is equivalent to being called "black" by someone who speaks English, and was in common usage (in the U.S.) until the 1960's.

As salaamu alaykum Brother,

I have to disagree with your argument here. Actually, I find it insulting that you would presume to tell "racial minorities, especially African Americans" that the problem is not racism, but our poor understanding of the issue. It is not perceived racism when an Arab refers to you as a slave rather than by your name. Slaves are considered inferior, considering someone inferior on the basis of race is the very definition of racism. Secondly, the idea that slavery in Muslim lands was all happy folks whiling away days in equality with masters is as much a lie as American myths about southern slavery. Generally, slavery sucks for the slave. Being owned is not a nice thing. Turkish Muslims routinely kidnapped African men and cut off their genitals to make them guards in the harems of the royal and wealthy. Sound humane to you? Women who are owned can be forced into sex at any time with the man who owns them no matter what he looks, smells, or acts like and no matter how she feels about it at the moment. Sound fun to you? How about having your kids sold away from you and one another? All of those things were and are part of slavery in the Muslim world. Let's not sugar coat. While Abid is not an uncommon name the context is servititude to Allah (swt) which is the highest honor we can achieve and NOT unwilling service to another human being, which is a terrible state and something that just about every culture in the world through time and space has recognized as an inferior state. Abid in reference to black skin is plain out racism. Also black is still used all the time here in the U.S., and is not considered an insult by anyone really.

Another point is that racism was never widely accepted (in an explicit way) in the Muslim world. Most Arabs (for example) are racially mixed due to their geographic location and also because they have been the crossing point for many different cultures throughout modern history. Racism was never codified into law in Muslim countries (as it was in the U.S., for example) and you will not find any sane Muslims who will admit that they believe they are superior because of their DNA or the amount of mellonine in their skin. This is not to say that racism doesn't exist in Muslim society (it does, I've seen it myself), but it's character is very different then among (for example) a W.A.S.P. community in the U.S. or Western Europe. This must be understood to properly address the issue.

This is also, unfortunately, not the case. Racism was a major problem amongst the Arabs even during the time of our beloved Prophet (saawas) as many looked down on Bilal and Salman (ra) because they were foreigners. If racism were not an issue the Prophet (saawas) would not have had to address it as clearly as he did. Also, if you do a little research you will find that the famous Afro Iraqi scholar Al Jahiz ( from the late 8th century to the early 9th) wrote about racism from lighter skinned Arabs. Racism has been a major problem in Indian history that preceded Islam and continues today even amongst Muslims. Lots of Iranians consider Arabs inferior and try all sorts of ways to distance their Islam from its Arab roots.

Edited by AnotherUmmAli
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It is a nice thread. It is a first thread I have seen on SC for ages where members are actually acknowledging the problem of racism in different Muslim communities and speaking out against it instead of turning a blind eye to it and blaming the evil, blue eyed albinos for making us more racists than we originally were.

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It is a nice thread. It is a first thread I have seen on SC for ages where members are actually acknowledging the problem of racism in different Muslim communities and speaking out against it instead of turning a blind eye to it and blaming the evil, blue eyed albinos for making us more racists than we originally were.

LOL who is blaming white people with blue eyes for racism? I am sure your posting has consoled a section of society that you got their back and they are not to blame... back to the topic (I hope)

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LOL who is blaming white people with blue eyes for racism? I am sure your posting has consoled a section of society that you got their back and they are not to blame... back to the topic (I hope)

Really these forums should be dynamic and not just redundant and stuck in the mire of religion.

Real people in the Ummah need real answers to everyday social issues. I am sorry but sometimes

Hadith and Quran together can't answer the questions.

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as salaam alaykum,

Actually, Leda, Maryaam was quoting me. She just happened to get my quote in before I deleted the post after deciding I didn't want to take part in the conversation. Clearly, those words were meant to be read whether I wanted them to or not, mashaAllah.

I have to say though, Leda, that with regard to marriage--once again, as a very dark skinned black woman-- I think the issues are more complex than racism. I had proposals or inquiries from many Arabs (Egyptians, Palestinians, Sudanese, Lebanese, an Algerian and a few Iraqis as I can recall off the top of my head) 2 American white men, a Burmese and two Iranians (maybe an afghani too, I can't recall) before I got married. Granted, I was a very pretty young woman, but most young women in their teens and early 20s are beautiful whether they realize it or not. I was also very conservative in my clothing (big scarves, jilbabs, no make up) and behavior (I never looked at men and really didn't talk to them). And my inquiries tended to be respectful--with the occasional slimy, cowardly married guy who wanted a secret muta or the guys who saw one big walking green card. Interestingly enough, the black American men (not the African brothers) were showing almost no interest.

One of the reasons I think you see less interracial marriage between black women and other men in our community is NOT because they don't find black women attractive (Believe me, they do! Especially Lebanese because they love women, all kinds of women, period.), but because they don't find us as accessible. White women are everywhere and on college campuses and in the workplace (where these guys are meeting these women) the perception is that it's much easier to hook up with a white woman than just about anyone else. Men decide on the odds of rejection before they approach a woman and are much more likely to approach a woman they feel won't reject them even if they are more attracted to another woman. Also, black American women are very loyal to black men, and many black women aren't even willing to look at men outside their race. This is changing dramatically with Gen Y and some of us at the tail-end of Gen X, but many of us think black men are the be all and end all of masculinity and no other man could possibly compare. Also a lot of us rightfully fear the cultural differences. Black Americans come from a culture where female strength and achievement is valued and partnerships tend to be more egalitarian, whereas many Arabs, Iranians, S. Asians etc. don't appreciate these qualities in women as much and it leads to cultural conflict.

I don't want to discount race issues, because they are real. A lot of our brothers in this faith have colonized minds and think that white women are better. These men have inferiority complexes and they also think white men are better than they are. Thank Allah (swt) they screen themselves out of our marriage pool, 'cause we'd be miserable with them. And there are the men who have managed to pick up stereotypes about black Americans (people really do think of Africans differently, ime) and, while you might want to educate them, would you want to marry them? But I know plenty of black women married to men of other races in our community (myself included). Quality is a different story, but we each define quality differently, and really, intelligent and morally upright human beings with good manners are in short supply regardless of race or gender.

Thank you, you put in all in such good order and such good words. I agree with you about black men. There is something ver twisted about their attraction to belittling black women whenever they get the opportunity. I decided today that there is no excuse for Mosqes and other institutions in Islam to ignore the race problem. lately its been all the rage here to do these Jewish/Muslim lectures and parties and so forth, and ignoring the deeper more hurtful internal problem. No one wants to talk about.

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Really these forums should be dynamic and not just redundant and stuck in the mire of religion.

Real people in the Ummah need real answers to everyday social issues. I am sorry but sometimes

Hadith and Quran together can't answer the questions.

the question of black converts acting like idiots? they are individuals who will reap what they sow.

if they seem to 'get in there' with the community through hatred for black women and by excluding them from spheres of life then know that the community that welcomes them and contributes with their gene pool knowing full well the marriage is based upon them (non blacks) being more worthy than the race he left behind and their daughters who have a passing interest in 'black men' (that soon wears off when he will not provide as her father did) then it just a load of trash we need not bother ourselves with.

yes the (non black) women who marry black men tend to have racist overtones and look down upon the black sister whilst thrusting their off spring who are supposedly more delightful to look at (not due to the black side mind you) just get over it there is a lid for every for every pot believe me. No one but the small group that suffer this kind of [Edited Out] cares.. so if you are looking for understanding I say to you good luck!

It is sickening and it does run deep. I wouldn't discuss these tossers in depth they are just upright monkeys... they see they do!

This happens to be the oft-repeated line of argument by many on SC whenever the topic of racism among Muslims is brought up.

OK between people who were enslaved by white folk<-- (they were the racist barbarians in case you do not know) -->they are to blame they robbed them (the negro slaves) of everything and instilled a hierarchy for skin tone hair texture etc that continues to exist.... do you have a problem with that?

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^

Forget it. I have given up in another thread. I give up here too. Jackson WINS again.

baradar right.. couldn't be talking about Michael Jackson.

anyway i dont agree with him calling white people albinos but i did not develop reverse racism and i am incapable of capping it either!

what goes around comes around (usually)

no need to give up i am being specific i.e SLAVERY and it is on a topic leda feels isolated in addressing.

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Ammar Nakshawani Lecture on Islam and Racism:

thank you for sharing this video. Although the brother, as pointed out in the comments makes alot of mistakes and also has some subtle overtones of racism in his speech/lecture I can say at least he's trying. We need scholars to address this issue not imams and mullahs, we need people who have studied world history outside of Islamic history to address these problems because it has to be seen in context with the rest of the world. But again thank you.

baradar right.. couldn't be talking about Michael Jackson.

anyway i dont agree with him calling white people albinos but i did not develop reverse racism and i am incapable of capping it either!

what goes around comes around (usually)

no need to give up i am being specific i.e SLAVERY and it is on a topic leda feels isolated in addressing.

How did Micheal Jackson get involved in this?

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Whoa! Let's not turn this discussion into an opportunity to bash black men. Some black men, just like some Arab men, some Pakistani men etc. have internalized white supremacist thinking and project their hatred of themselves on others of their on race. This is by no means all black men. And, now that I think of it there were a few black American men who were interested in me when I was single, so I wasn't being fair there, I had actually forgotten about the nice guys allowing them to be overshadowed by the poor self-hating souls who found my dark skin disappointing.

Sister Leda, I have to disagree that solutions can not be found in Qur'an and sunnah. There is nothing in the human condition that has not been addressed deeply and beautifully by the qur'an and explained in depth and beauty by the Prophets and the A'imma from the household of Prophet Muhammad (saawas). Racism, colorism and tribalism are issues that have plagued this ummah since its infancy. Ultimately, that tribalism is what led to the misguidance of the majority of the ummah, the murder of our beloved Imam Hussain (as) and centuries of murder and abuse of the followers shi'ite of ahl al bayt (as). There are lots of hadith about racism and its degrading impact on faith.

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Whoa! Let's not turn this discussion into an opportunity to bash black men. Some black men, just like some Arab men, some Pakistani men etc. have internalized white supremacist thinking and project their hatred of themselves on others of their on race. This is by no means all black men. And, now that I think of it there were a few black American men who were interested in me when I was single, so I wasn't being fair there, I had actually forgotten about the nice guys allowing them to be overshadowed by the poor self-hating souls who found my dark skin disappointing.

Sister Leda, I have to disagree that solutions can not be found in Qur'an and sunnah. There is nothing in the human condition that has not been addressed deeply and beautifully by the qur'an and explained in depth and beauty by the Prophets and the A'imma from the household of Prophet Muhammad (saawas). Racism, colorism and tribalism are issues that have plagued this ummah since its infancy. Ultimately, that tribalism is what led to the misguidance of the majority of the ummah, the murder of our beloved Imam Hussain (as) and centuries of murder and abuse of the followers shi'ite of ahl al bayt (as). There are lots of hadith about racism and its degrading impact on faith.

I know this is a tall order but can you give me a list of those Hadith and Quran that talk about these things. I mean besides the usual one that is quoted.

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Whoa! Let's not turn this discussion into an opportunity to bash black men. Some black men, just like some Arab men, some Pakistani men etc. have internalized white supremacist thinking and project their hatred of themselves on others of their on race. This is by no means all black men.

no need for balancing what i say describing matters the OP opened with is on topic you will find that Pakistanis and Arabs cherish the women in their race and see the lunacy in disowning them in front of others. take a look at the context in the OP and you will see the relevance of my reply

I (a black man who witness these convos out of 'sisters' ear shot) have no intention of bashing myself for the entertainment of shia chatters.

BTW I do not see how --->

internalized white supremacist thinking and project their hatred of themselves on others of their on race.

<---apply to all and sundry. I am only acknowledging this in the people who were enslaved. So i will clearly dissociate myself from your saying this before some idiot starts 'stuff ' (MY DISCLAIMER)

And, now that I think of it there were a few black American men who were interested in me when I was single, so I wasn't being fair there, I had actually forgotten about the nice guys allowing them to be overshadowed by the poor self-hating souls who found my dark skin disappointing.

your memory's returned... good? however the problem i outlined does not cease to exist I have not forgotten 'the nice guys' in my post this discussion is not about 'nice guys' period.

Racism In Islam Why won't anyone talk about it, really?

TO OP I now know why I wont discuss/highlight :squeez:

mi gone

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