Seafood

[shoush09]

salam,

why is it haram to eat seafood like lobster and all the other ones? and why is it halal to eat fish isnt it the same for both?

salam

i forgot to add.... and y is it haram to eat a dead fish or animal?

[realizm]

According to Ayatollah Fadlallah it is permissible to eat any seafood but it is recommanded to eat only fish with scales and shrimps.

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/QA/qa.aspx?id=103

He based his ruling on the lack of proof and authenticity in the ahadith regarding seafood.

Do not eat any dead animal or fish (fish should not be found dead in the water)

Common sense, a carcass becomes rotten and filthy.

Salam

[ali the lion]

It is very clear in the quran that only fish with scales are allowed.

[Rohani]

It is very clear in the quran that only fish with scales are allowed.

(salam)

where? or are you thinking of the torah where it states something along them lines.

(wasalam)

[realizm]

It is very clear in the quran that only fish with scales are allowed.

It would be clearer if you could back your assumptions with verses.

I highly doubt any scholar would go allow other sea food if it went agaisnt the Quran.

[ali the lion]

I think Sistani is the most wise scholar. And if you see muslims eating lobsters crabs and oysters that does not mean it is halaal in Islam. It is just they want to imitate western culture of celebration by eating lobster and drinking wine with their girlfriends. Imam Ali used to go to the market and advice people not to sell fish without scales.( nahjul balagha )

And the verses in the quran are very clear about eating from the sea of fish that has scales. Somebody has to help me find where the actual verse is.

[Basim Ali]

(salam),

Ayatullah Fadhlallah has a history of rather unique fatawas. Perhaps, due to the fact that he has his own ways of evaluating ahadith.

I'm not denouncing the the fatwa of anyone here nor saying that anybody is wrong, but just pointing to a fact; that we have many ahadith asking us to eat fish with scales (only):

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/food-and-drink-1/fish

The link also has ahadith which say it is only Makruh to eat fish without scales. But since we have many ahadith saying such fish are to be kept away from, it is better we make every effort to keep away from them.

Ayatullah Sistani considers fish without scales impermissible to eat.

For anyone who wants them;

here is the list of fish with scales: http://al-sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=2&bid=53&pid=2818

here are the pictures of fish with scales: http://al-sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=2&bid=53&pid=2817

@ ali the lion: I too, don't think there is any verse which talks about the impermissibility of eating fish without scales. I know Sunnis (who don't have the fish scale rule) are in error at some places, but they're not blind that they wouldn't see what a verse is saying (if such a verse existed).

To the OP:

Islamic Laws need not be served with reasons, in order to be followed. Laws are laws, and one must remember that Allah prohibits things only because they harm us.

I was reading this, and found it interesting, so I thought I'd share it:

Beware of Fish without Scales and Fins

Interestingly kosher dietary laws prohibit the eating of fish without both scales and fins. That eliminates a number of delicious sea foods, including shellfish, shrimp, catfish, lobster, mussels, eels, sharks, sturgeons, and swordfish, just to name a few.

Clearly their law-giver knew something that has taken scientists years to discover. Now we know that fish with scales AND fins are equipped with a digestive system that prevents the absorption of poisons and toxins into their flesh from the waters they call home. Flounder, cod, haddock, and salmon are a few examples of fish with scales and fins.

Catfish have fins, but do not have scales. These scavengers are primarily bottom feeders and have digestive systems designed to absorb toxins from the water. Clams, lobster, shrimp, crabs, mussels and squid do not have scales or fins and are believed to be highly toxic. They naturally absorb all the toxins in the water they live in. Interestingly, lobster and crabs are crustaceans and are a part of the arthropod family, which include caterpillars, cockroaches, and spiders!

https://www.medicine-plants.com/articles/295/No+Scales,+No+Fins,+No+Good/

Now you know, every law has a reason, and you don't have to wait for scientists to discover reasons for each law, before you start following it! (after all, you follow Islam, not science =) )

wa (salam)

Edited February 26, 2010 by Basim Ali

[kadhim]

And the verses in the quran are very clear about eating from the sea of fish that has scales. Somebody has to help me find where the actual verse is.

Good luck; it doesn't exist.

The majority judgment is based on particular ahadith.

[SLAVE_OF_ALLAH]

(salam)

where? or are you thinking of the torah where it states something along them lines.

(wasalam)

It's forbidden in the sahih hadith. hmmm i wonder why nearly all our marajah past and present have said unscaled fish and other seafood is haram. so i would not be parading around the fatwa of Sayed Fadlallah.

According to Ayatollah Fadlallah it is permissible to eat any seafood but it is recommanded to eat only fish with scales and shrimps.

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/QA/qa.aspx?id=103

He based his ruling on the lack of proof and authenticity in the ahadith regarding seafood.

Do not eat any dead animal or fish (fish should not be found dead in the water)

Common sense, a carcass becomes rotten and filthy.

Salam

Lack of evidence for not being permissable, what about all the sahih hadih in al kafi forbidding it?

Edited February 28, 2010 by SLAVE_OF_ALLAH

[shoush09]

salam to all,

is shrimp considered haram to sayid sistani, sayid khamenie, sayid fadlallah?

[ali the lion]

salam to all,is shrimp considered haram to sayid sistani, sayid khamenie, sayid fadlallah?

If you mean prawns than they are halal as per Sistani.

[Basim Ali]

(salam),

salam to all,

is shrimp considered haram to sayid sistani, sayid khamenie, sayid fadlallah?

Permissible a/c to Ayatullah Sistani (may Allah give him a long life):

164. It is permissible to eat shrimps, if they are brought out of the water alive. It is forbidden to eat frogs, lobsters, turtles, every amphibious animal, snails, and crayfish.

http://al-sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=2&bid=53&pid=2781

Permissible a/c to Sayed Fadlallah:

Q: What is the ruling on eating shrimps, lobsters, and crab?

A: It is permissible to eat them; however, it is a recommended precaution to avoid eating fish and other sea animals that have no scales

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/QA/qa.aspx?id=103

[Note: Ayt. Sistani considers lobsters Haram, unlike Sayed Fadlallah.]

I can't find a ruling from Ayatullah Khamenei. But it is likely, that he too considers shrimps halal. You can ask, if you want, on leader.ir.

wa (salam)

[Mazahir imran]

Quran 5 94 through 5 98

Also read

https://ammarrizvi.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/about-eating-fish-which-do-not-have-scales/

[ema]

Unless clearly prohibited in Quran or in 100% valid hadith, we should be able to eat Whales, sea urchin, squid, octopus, mussles, eels, etc.

[Hameedeh]

1 hour ago, ema said:

Unless clearly prohibited in Quran or in 100% valid hadith, we should be able to eat Whales, sea urchin, squid, octopus, mussles, eels, etc.

According to Shias, those sea creatures are not halal food. You must be new here.  

[ema]

Thank  you for your warm welcoming.

I could not locate the evidence prohibiting us from eating those sea food.

Could you kindly point it out where I can find the hadith from imams or the prophet quoting?

It would be very helpful.

Jzk.

[Sumerian]

1 hour ago, ema said:

Thank  you for your warm welcoming.

I could not locate the evidence prohibiting us from eating those sea food.

Could you kindly point it out where I can find the hadith from imams or the prophet quoting?

It would be very helpful.

Jzk.

"Eat any fish that has scales, and do not eat what does not have scales."
Imam Al-Baqir (a.s.)

[Al-Kulayni, Al-Kafi, Vol.6, p. 219]

https://www.al-islam.org/fasting-and-ramadhan-sheikh-mansour-leghaei/common-halal-and-non-halal-sea-foods

Edited September 26, 2016 by E.L King

[Ali al-Abdullah]

5 hours ago, E.L King said:

"Eat any fish that has scales, and do not eat what does not have scales."
Imam Al-Baqir (a.s.)

[Al-Kulayni, Al-Kafi, Vol.6, p. 219]

https://www.al-islam.org/fasting-and-ramadhan-sheikh-mansour-leghaei/common-halal-and-non-halal-sea-foods

Does this include fish that have scales but the scales are taken out?

[Sumerian]

8 hours ago, Ali al-Abdullah said:

Does this include fish that have scales but the scales are taken out?

No.

[ema]

I don't believe in hadith abrogating quran, and I don't take hadith that is contradicting Quran.
The hadith seems fine since it merely saying not to eat unscaled fish.
Octopus, Squid, Sea Urchin, caviar and etc are NOT fish. So it does not matter having scale or not.
I know Iran exports caviar and I believe they don't export haram things for others to eat.

Quran says,

Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me [anything] forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine - for indeed, it is impure - or it be [that slaughtered in] disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful." 6:145

Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 5:3

[Sumerian]

3 hours ago, ema said:

I don't believe in hadith abrogating quran, and I don't take hadith that is contradicting Quran.
The hadith seems fine since it merely saying not to eat unscaled fish.
Octopus, Squid, Sea Urchin, caviar and etc are NOT fish. So it does not matter having scale or not.
I know Iran exports caviar and I believe they don't export haram things for others to eat.

Quran says,

Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me [anything] forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine - for indeed, it is impure - or it be [that slaughtered in] disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful." 6:145

Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 5:3

Sadly for you, you are not a Faqih. You are not one who determines what is halal or not. And the hadith does not contradict the Holy Qur'an. And caviar is halal if it is taken from fish with scales.

Octopus, lobster etc... are all haram according to Sayyed Al-Sistani, Sayyed Al-Khamenei. If you follow another marja with a different view, your choice. 

[ema]

Quran takes priority over what different Faqih says since many Fuqaha disagree with each other often. Khomeini was known to have disagreed with Khamenei in some issues.

And I NEVER said that hadith contradict with quran since the hadith merely saying that we should not eat "unscaled fish".

My point is clams, whales, sea urchins, caviar, squid, etc are NOT fish to begin with. So the hadith itself may not be the problem but the understanding and interpretation of the hadith could be the cause of our difference.

[notme]

@ema does the Quran say we have to eat lobsters and squids?

If this is very important to you, I recommend you study up on the opinions of various scholars and on all the hadith related to the subject. It's not that important to me, so I chose the easy path of following the guidance of a marja. You can do what works best for you, but you can't tell others what to do. 

[notme]

Also, caviar which comes from halal fish is halal. 

[Sumerian]

23 minutes ago, ema said:

Quran takes priority over what different Faqih says since many Fuqaha disagree with each other often. Khomeini was known to have disagreed with Khamenei in some issues.

And I NEVER said that hadith contradict with quran since the hadith merely saying that we should not eat "unscaled fish".

My point is clams, whales, sea urchins, caviar, squid, etc are NOT fish to begin with. So the hadith itself may not be the problem but the understanding and interpretation of the hadith could be the cause of our difference.

You think these Fuqaha don't understand the Holy Qur'an? There are other hadiths which imply it is haram to eat those animals you listed.

[ema]

No, I never forced or told anyone that you must eat lobsters and squid.

I just mentioned from Quran 6:145 and 5:3.

Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me [anything] forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine - for indeed, it is impure - or it be [that slaughtered in] disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."

Even Japanese people don't eat "unscaled fish" such as anglerfish, blackmouth goosefish, and all types of catfish because those are not edible.

the clause "Do NOT eat unscaled fish" is not equal to "Eat only fish with scale" from sea. There are many good seaweeds such as Kombu, Wakame, Hijiki, and so on. Do you say those are prohibited too?

[Reza]

Is all this a matter of starvation, life or death for people? Is there nothing suitable to eat? Or are lobster and clams all there is? 

When people feel like they can't have something, all of a sudden they start craving it more. Psychology!

[ema]

Maybe there is possibility that many Fuqaha are not familiar with vast variety of seafood that are available in the Far East Pacific Ocean as those who live there?

[notme]

Sea plants are the same as all other plants, allowed. 

[ema]

And how about Sea animal like Whale that is same as goat, cow, and sheep?

Whale is NOT "unscaled fish".

[Sumerian]

12 minutes ago, ema said:

No, I never forced or told anyone that you must eat lobsters and squid.

I just mentioned from Quran 6:145 and 5:3.

Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me [anything] forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine - for indeed, it is impure - or it be [that slaughtered in] disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."

Even Japanese people don't eat "unscaled fish" such as anglerfish, blackmouth goosefish, and all types of catfish because those are not edible.

the clause "Do NOT eat unscaled fish" is not equal to "Eat only fish with scale" from sea. There are many good seaweeds such as Kombu, Wakame, Hijiki, and so on. Do you say those are prohibited too?

Seaweed is halal. It's not a meat. 

[notme]

3 minutes ago, ema said:

And how about Sea animal like Whale that is same as goat, cow, and sheep?

Whale is NOT "unscaled fish".

I don't know. Research it. At minimum, they'd have to be slaughtered in a halal way and they'd have to be herbivores. Those two requirements rule out anything the commercial industry might bring in, and it's illegal to hunt most marine mammals anyway.  

By this reasoning, sea invertebrates would fall into the categories of bugs or worms. Are bugs and worms halal to eat? 

[ema]

43 minutes ago, notme said:

Also, caviar which comes from halal fish is halal. 

Caviar is egg from unscaled fish called sturgeon.

So caviar is from haram fish but halal to eat while it is in egg form, then?

And I suppose the hadith meant only NOT to eat "unscaled fish" among all sea food.

 

[Sumerian]

3 minutes ago, ema said:

Caviar is egg from unscaled fish called sturgeon.

So caviar is from haram fish but halal to eat while it is in egg form, then?

And I suppose the hadith meant only NOT to eat "unscaled fish" among all sea food.

 

Traditionally, the term caviar refers only to roe from wild sturgeon in the Caspian and Black Sea^[2] (Beluga, Ossetra and Sevruga caviars). Depending on the country, caviar may also be used to describe the roe of other fish such as salmon, steelhead, trout, lumpfish, whitefish,^[3] carp,^[4] and other species of sturgeon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caviar

and sister, please read the following important link:

https://www.al-islam.org/organizations/AalimNetwork/msg00283.html

Hopefully you will understand the situation more.

Edited September 29, 2016 by E.L King

[notme]

14 minutes ago, ema said:

Caviar is egg from unscaled fish called sturgeon.

So caviar is from haram fish but halal to eat while it is in egg form, then?

No, that's not what I said. I said caviar which comes from halal fish is halal. 

Are the bony scutes on sturgeon considered scales? I'm guessing no, since sturgeon are bottom feeders. Mainly, we don't eat scavengers. 

Other kinds of fish eggs are also eaten and called caviar. From Wikipedia:

"Traditionally, the term caviar refers only to roe from wild sturgeon in the Caspian and Black Sea^[2] (Beluga, Ossetra and Sevruga caviars). Depending on the country, caviar may also be used to describe the roe of other fish such as salmon, steelhead, trout, lumpfish, whitefish,^[3]carp,^[4] and other species of sturgeon.^[5][6]"