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avjar7

A Clarification For Sunnis About Mut'ah

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Surah 23. The Believers

1. The believers must (eventually) win through,-

2. Those who humble themselves in their prayers;

3. Who avoid vain talk;

4. Who are active in deeds of charity;

5. Who abstain from sex,

6. Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,

7. But those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors;-

Quran 4:24

------------------

(( " The Shia quote invalid evidence to support their argument that mut’ah is permissible. For example:

(a) They quote the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“…so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed…”

[al-Nisa’ 4:24]

They say: this verse indicates that mut’ah is permissible, and the word ‘their mahr (ujoorahunna – lit. their dues or their wages)’ is evidence that what is meant by the phrase ‘you have enjoyed sexual relations’ is mut’ah.

The refutation of this is the fact that prior to this Allaah mentions the women whom a man is forbidden to marry, then he mentions what is permissible for him, and He commands the man to give to the woman he marries her mahr.

The joy of marriage is expressed here by the word enjoyment (‘of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations’). A similar instance occurs in the Sunnah, in the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah according to which the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Woman is like a bent rib, if you try to straighten her you will break her. If you want to enjoy her, then enjoy her while she still has some crookedness in her.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4889; Muslim, 1468.

The mahr is referred to here as ajr (lit. dues or wages), but this does not refer to the money which is paid to the woman with whom he engages in mut’ah in the contract of mut’ah. The mahr is referred to as ajr elsewhere in the Book of Allaah, where Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O Prophet (Muhammad)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal‑money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage)…”

[al-Ahzaab 33:50]

Thus it becomes clear that there is no evidence in this verse to suggest that mut’ah is permissible.

With regard to Sahaaba who said that it is permissible, they are among those who did not hear that it had been forbidden. The Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) – including ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Zubayr – refuted Ibn ‘Abbaas’s view that mut’ah was permitted.

It was narrated from ‘Ali that he heard Ibn ‘Abbaas permitting mut’ah marriage, and he said, “Wait a minute, O Ibn ‘Abbaas, for the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade it on the day of Khaybar and (he also forbade) the meat of tame donkeys.”

Narrated by Muslim, 1407.

And Allaah knows best. ""-------------)

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Well I can't believe such a thing can be allowed in Islam overall. I'm just going to use common sense and logic and don't need to provide any hadith references because we will be here all day contradicting each other hadith all day.

Mutah is clearly prostitution, since a woman doesn't have all the legal rights in this so called temporary marriage. Even though people do say she can have all those rights anytime she wants. When you marry someone, you intend to stay with them forever. Marriage is a halal and pak agreement and women committing mutah just to make money out of this business and men in it for pleasure degrades the concepts of marraige and in so doing degrades the sunnah prophet pbuh. Mutah is being used as a money making business in Iran and it was only allowed to stop the westernization of Iran.

I also strictly condemn the idea of misyar marriage and halala. This acts of evil only degrades our pure religion and i absolutely can not believe how someone will be willing to support such acts. Women who have gone through such tragic and horrible events, only god knows how mentally distrub they are and yet we act as barbarians and allows for such things to be permisible which is suppose to be the way of life for all human beings.

If you all guys are really interested in mutah, misyar or halala kinda stuff then prophet mohammad pbuh did allow for having 4 wives. I think that is a much better and civilized option for us muslims who are true lovers of prophet muhammad pbuh his ihlay bait and caliphs.

I don't believe in sects in Islam such as shia, sunni or school of thoughts such as hanfi, malaki, shafi as much because all it has done in the modern era fuel people with anger and hatred with in the muslim community. All you see these days is shia cursing sunnis and sunnis calling shias kafirs which in a sense does bother me. We need to unite and stick to one thing, which is that we are all muslims and that is it. Our beloved prophet mohammad pbuh was only muslim and so were the messengers before him. Therefore, I only call myself muslim and don't follow any particular school of thought or sect. I follow all which make sense and don't downgrade the value of humanity. Our beloved prophet mohammad pbuh came into this world at times when the world didnt know the difference between good and evil and he clearly highlighted such things and look since he left us what have we done. We have stopped following his path and created our own mosques, which a particular sect can only attend, different styles of praying which is acceptable in the eyes of few scholars and so on.

I'm here to get rid of these differences, no sunnis and shias, such things shouldnt exsist. Whatever happened in the times of Umar and Ali happened and Allah knows best how to deal with this and he will punish those who are worthy of punishment so we don't need to worry but our major concern should be that we get rid of such differences and unite the ummah so we can pray the same way, perform wudhu the same way and do things as one so we look like the ummah of our beloved prophet muhammad pbuh. This the message of islam to us muslims and thats how we should behave and our actions will attract alot of kafirs, mushriqs into islam. Our extremists opnions and actions will disunite us and give kafirs something to insult us with and make mokcery of our religion.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjH32TyRo8Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=eB87xvh2Jto&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=PAmtLeJgYm0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=AkqgshZ8jyE&feature=related

I have learned that it'll take me many many years to gain enough knowledge to go into debate so I present to you these videos.. please have a look at them and when you watch, have an open mind. Watch ALL four parts, it is very interesting.

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I hope you guys have taken out some time to watch the videos. I have many questions which will stun you. One is:

Why do the prominent scholars not let their daughters into Mut'ah marriage? What do you mean it will dishonour and bring shame upon the family if they partake in it? OMG does that mean that it brings dishonour and shame upon everyone or only for high-fi people like scholars?

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http://www.youtube.c...h?v=OjH32TyRo8Q

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I have learned that it'll take me many many years to gain enough knowledge to go into debate so I present to you these videos.. please have a look at them and when you watch, have an open mind. Watch ALL four parts, it is very interesting.

This video is at best a false Propaganda tool. No where it is touching the Proofs and Answers given to Sunni Objections by Shias on the Issue of Muttah.. All these allegations have already been answered in details here.

You see Sunnies are only making allegations (like Jews and anti Islamic People make against Islam). But they are unable to answer the Proofs which are presented by us.

This article of Muttah by Answering.Ansar is there for last couple of years and none of the Sunni ever tried to answer it. Why?

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This video is at best a false Propaganda tool. No where it is touching the Proofs and Answers given to Sunni Objections by Shias on the Issue of Muttah.. All these allegations have already been answered in details here.

You see Sunnies are only making allegations (like Jews and anti Islamic People make against Islam). But they are unable to answer the Proofs which are presented by us.

This article of Muttah by Answering.Ansar is there for last couple of years and none of the Sunni ever tried to answer it. Why?

Brother/Sister

for now forget everything and just answer this simple question. Surely they (the people that made the video) didn't find a way to change the words of that Shia Imam. Explain to me that why do the prominent scholars not let their daughters into Mut'ah marriage? What do you mean it will dishonour and bring shame upon the family if they partake in it? Soes that mean that it brings dishonour and shame upon everyone or only for high-fi people like scholars?

As for your question "No Sunni ever tried to answer it". Friend, don't even go there I can post videos about a Sunni scholars calling the most prominent Shia scholars living, asking them to come to the show for the past 20 years or so, and asking them to debate. Why don't they come?

Edited by DrKhan

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Brother/Sister

for now forget everything and just answer this simple question. Surely they (the people that made the video) didn't find a way to change the words of that Shia Imam. Explain to me that why do the prominent scholars not let their daughters into Mut'ah marriage? What do you mean it will dishonour and bring shame upon the family if they partake in it? Soes that mean that it brings dishonour and shame upon everyone or only for high-fi people like scholars?

As for your question "No Sunni ever tried to answer it". Friend, don't even go there I can post videos about a Sunni scholars calling the most prominent Shia scholars living, asking them to come to the show for the past 20 years or so, and asking them to debate. Why don't they come?

Your problem is this that you leave the Real Issue and go for the "Personal Issues". In Islam it is also allowed to marry your daughter to a person who is already having 1 or 2 or 3 wives. Now show me in Pakistan how many Sunni Ulama have given their daughters in Nikah of such already wed people? So, this is a non-Issue what people do in their personal Lives, but main Issue is this if Islam has ever Prohibited Muttah or it was Umar Ibn Khattab who prohibited it at his own. I don't know about any one else, but HERE I challenge any Sunni Mufti to come and prove us that it was not Umar Ibn Khattab but Rasool (saw) who prohibited Muttah.

Edited by Jibrael

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Brother/Sister

for now forget everything and just answer this simple question. Surely they (the people that made the video) didn't find a way to change the words of that Shia Imam. Explain to me that why do the prominent scholars not let their daughters into Mut'ah marriage? What do you mean it will dishonour and bring shame upon the family if they partake in it? Soes that mean that it brings dishonour and shame upon everyone or only for high-fi people like scholars?

As for your question "No Sunni ever tried to answer it". Friend, don't even go there I can post videos about a Sunni scholars calling the most prominent Shia scholars living, asking them to come to the show for the past 20 years or so, and asking them to debate. Why don't they come?

Aima (as) clearly told that Muttah is Halal for Hashmia Women. So what is the problem with you? Off course today society has made Muttah marriage like a crime and shame, but off course it is neither a crime or shame in eyes of Allah, who is the Only Creator of Sharia and Halals and Harams. I also accept the Challenge to any Sunni Imam to come and prove us wrong. Let us make it official.

Official Challenge to any Sunni Mufti to prove Muttah was made Haram by Prophet (peace be upon him)

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Sunni say Muttah is ZINA, while Allah's Prophet testifies that Muttah is among HALAL & Tayyibaat (Pure of any Filth)

As I stated earlier, Sunnies always leave the field and run away when we show them the Counter Proofs. Let us start here with these Proofs and any one could see the running of these People.

Sahih al Bukhari Volume 7 tradition 13a

Narrated 'Abdullah Ibn Masud: We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated (for fear of making sin)?" He forbade us (to castrate ourselves) and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract (Mut'ah) and recited to us: 'O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things (Tayyibaat i.e. Pure THINGS), which Allah has made lawful (HALAL) for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)

Here is the Arabic Text:

ÍÏËäÇ þ þÚãÑæ Èä Úæä þ þÍÏËäÇ þ þÎÇáÏ þ þÚä þ þÅÓãÇÚíá þ þÚä þ þÞíÓ þ þÚä þ þÚÈÏ Çááå þ þÑÖí Çááå Úäå þ þÞÇá þ
þ
ßäÇ äÛÒæ ãÚ ÇáäÈí þ þÕáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã þ þæáíÓ ãÚäÇ äÓÇÁ ÝÞáäÇ ÃáÇ äÎÊÕí ÝäåÇäÇ Úä Ðáß ÝÑÎÕ áäÇ ÈÚÏ ÐáßÃä äÊÒæÌ ÇáãÑÃÉ ÈÇáËæÈ Ëã ÞÑà þ
þ
íÇ ÃíåÇ ÇáÐíä Âãäæ
Ç
áÇ ÊÍÑãæÇ
ØíÈÇÊ
ãÇ ÃÍá Çááå áßã
þ

Online Link to Arabic Version of this hadith

No Sunni Imam/Mufti has answered this up till now and could never answer it ever. They could keep on blaming Muttah to be ZINA for centuries, but here we have the witness of Prophet of Allah (swt) himself where he is declaring that:

1) Muttah is not Zina but among TAYYIBAAT (pure of any filth)

2) And Allah made Muttah HALAL. So how could you declare it Haram.

Let us see if any Sunni Mufti could ever REFUTE this Witness of Prophet of Allah (saw).

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Sunni say Muttah is ZINA, while Allah's Prophet testifies that Muttah is among HALAL & Tayyibaat (Pure of any Filth)

As I stated earlier, Sunnies always leave the field and run away when we show them the Counter Proofs. Let us start here with these Proofs and any one could see the running of these People.

Sahih al Bukhari Volume 7 tradition 13a

Narrated 'Abdullah Ibn Masud: We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated (for fear of making sin)?" He forbade us (to castrate ourselves) and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract (Mut'ah) and recited to us: 'O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things (Tayyibaat i.e. Pure THINGS), which Allah has made lawful (HALAL) for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)

Here is the Arabic Text:

ÍÏËäÇ þ þÚãÑæ Èä Úæä þ þÍÏËäÇ þ þÎÇáÏ þ þÚä þ þÅÓãÇÚíá þ þÚä þ þÞíÓ þ þÚä þ þÚÈÏ Çááå þ þÑÖí Çááå Úäå þ þÞÇá þ þßäÇ äÛÒæ ãÚ ÇáäÈí þ þÕáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã þ þæáíÓ ãÚäÇ äÓÇÁ ÝÞáäÇ ÃáÇ äÎÊÕí ÝäåÇäÇ Úä Ðáß ÝÑÎÕ áäÇ ÈÚÏ ÐáßÃä äÊÒæÌ ÇáãÑÃÉ ÈÇáËæÈ Ëã ÞÑà þ þíÇ ÃíåÇ ÇáÐíä ÂãäæÇ áÇ ÊÍÑãæÇ ØíÈÇÊ ãÇ ÃÍá Çááå áßã

Online Link to Arabic Version of this hadith

Please clear one point:

"to marry women with a temporary contract (Mut'ah)"

Can you please clearly highlight the word "temporary contract" in arabic (above).

Please translate this satatement also:

þÞóæúáå : ( ÎóÇáöÏ ) þ

þåõæó ÇöÈúä ÚóÈúÏ Çááóøå ÇáØóøÍóøÇä , æóÅöÓúãóÇÚöíá åõæó ÇöÈúä ÃóÈöí ÎóÇáöÏ , æóÞóíúÓ åõæó ÇöÈúä ÃóÈöí ÍóÇÒöã , æóÚóÈúÏ Çááóøå åõæó ÇöÈúä ãóÓúÚõæÏ . æóÓóíóÃúÊöí ÔóÑúÍ ÇáúÍóÏöíË Ýöí ßöÊóÇÈ ÇáäöøßóÇÍ æóÝöí ÇáÊöøÑúãöÐöíø ãõÍóÓóøäðÇ ãöäú ÍóÏöíË ÇöÈúä ÚóÈóøÇÓ " Ãóäóø ÑóÌõáðÇ ÃóÊóì ÇáäóøÈöíø Õóáóøì Çááóøå Úóáóíúåö æóÓóáóøãó ÝóÞóÇáó : íóÇ ÑóÓõæá Çááóøå ÅöÐóÇ ÃóßóáúÊ ãöäú åóÐóÇ ÇááóøÍúã ÇöäúÊóÔóÑúÊ , æóÅöäöøí ÍóÑóøãúÊ Úóáóíóø ÇááóøÍúã ÝóäóÒóáóÊú " æóÑóæóì ÇöÈúä ÃóÈöí ÍóÇÊöã ãöäú æóÌúå ÂÎóÑ Úóäú ÇöÈúä ÚóÈóøÇÓ ÃóäóøåóÇ äóÒóáóÊú Ýöí äóÇÓ ÞóÇáõæÇ " äóÊúÑõß ÔóåóæóÇÊ ÇáÏõøäúíóÇ æóäóÓöíÍ Ýöí ÇáúÃóÑúÖ " ÇáúÍóÏöíË . æóÓóíóÃúÊöí ãóÇ íóÊóÚóáóøÞ Èöåö ÃóíúÖðÇ Ýöí ßöÊóÇÈ ÇáäöøßóÇÍ Åöäú ÔóÇÁó Çááóøå ÊóÚóÇáóì .

One point to note if mutah was halal then why sahaba (ra) said: "Shall we get ourselves castrated (for fear of making sin)"!

& second point is that according to sunni's: mutah made haram after khaibar

maududi says:

& the theme of Surah maidah indicates, and traditions support it, that it was revealed after the treaty of Hudaibiyah at the end of 6 A. H. or in the beginning of 7 A. H. That is why it deals with those problems that arose from this treaty.

http://www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/QURAN/maududi/mau5.html

& as we can see in this hadith sahaba (ra) wanted to castrated (for fear of making sin),

this is very clear: if mutah was halal at that time then sahaba (ra) would never said this statement of castrated (for fear of making sin) because there permanent wives (from legal nikah) were far away.

What you think?

Does your challange make any sense (if you are refering to this hadith of sahih bukhari)?

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Your problem is this that you leave the Real Issue and go for the "Personal Issues". In Islam it is also allowed to marry your daughter to a person who is already having 1 or 2 or 3 wives. Now show me in Pakistan how many Sunni Ulama have given their daughters in Nikah of such already wed people? So, this is a non-Issue what people do in their personal Lives, but main Issue is this if Islam has ever Prohibited Muttah or it was Umar Ibn Khattab who prohibited it at his own. I don't know about any one else, but HERE I challenge any Sunni Mufti to come and prove us that it was not Umar Ibn Khattab but Rasool (saw) who prohibited Muttah.

Wow some of you guys are very weird. No, I did not RUN OFF.. and i said to leave everything and answer my question! and no one did SO FAR. If it brings dishonour and shame upon a prominent scholar if his daughter is given into Mut'ah marriage, doesn't that mean it will bring dishonour and shame upon EVERYONE?! OR ONLY the "prominent" scholars because they are more important etc etc? Forget the legality in Islam and just answer the d*** question!

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Start of Lame Sunni Excuses

ali.haider, on 20 April 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

Please clear one point:

"to marry women with a temporary contract (Mut'ah)"

Can you please clearly highlight the word "temporary contract" in arabic (above).

Please first of all change your name from ali.haider to your own name as you want to deceive by using this nick. Thanks.

Secondly, why are you so much Blind that you are asking this Proof from us?

Why are you unable to see that it is your own Salafi Wahabi Alim Mohsin Khan who has translated it as "Temporary Marriage". Then this Official Saudi Translation has been authenticated by whole Group of your Wahabi Salafi Ulama. Now tell us why don't you go to them and blame them for corruption in translation of Sahih Bukhari?

And once you are finished with Saudi Mohsin Khan and whole group of these Wahabi Salafi Ulama, then you must take out almost all the Previous Sunni Ulama of whole 1400 years out of their grave and ask them this question, while there is NOT a SINGLE of them who ever doubted that here:

1) Abdullah Ibn Masood is talking about Temporary Marriage.

2) And he is witnessing that the words Tayyibaat (i.e. Pure of any kind of filth) has been used and HALAL have been used by Rasool Allah (saw) for Mut'ah Marriage. Yes, the same Mut'ah Marriage to whom you people have been claiming to be the Prostitution and Fahishah for the last 13 Centuries. Now you could cry or beat yourself, but witness of Rasool (saw) is Enough for us and every Single Real Muslim.

Even after this you try to cast doubt in it, then no one could stop you from casting doubts. And only Allah could take you people out of these DOUBTS otherwise you will be drowned in your doubts.

by ali.Haider(the non-Shia member) wrote:

Please translate this satatement also:

Could you please make it clear WHY should it be I who translate it for you? If you claim you have made a discovery, then please come up with DALEEL, and not the Drama which you are doing here.

Why to change the Topic?

by ali.Haider (non-Shia member):

One point to note if mutah was halal then why sahaba ra.gif said: "Shall we get ourselves castrated (for fear of making sin)"!

& second point is that according to sunni's: mutah made haram after khaibar

& as we can see in this hadith sahaba ra.gif wanted to castrated (for fear of making sin),

this is very clear: if mutah was halal at that time then sahaba ra.gif would never said this statement of castrated (for fear of making sin) because there permanent wives (from legal nikah) were far away.

What you think?

Please don't change the Topic, which is the WITNESS of Rasool Allah (saw) that Muttah is not fornication and Fahisha (contrary to what non-Shias are claiming for last 14 Centuries).

It is not SHIA but SUNNI Claim that Muttah continued in Islam right from beginning till Khaybar when it was Prohibited

Anti Muta'h people and their Ulama have made two claims throughout 1400 years of history:

1st Claim:

Muttah was practiced initially in Islam till it was made Haram in Khayber.

2nd Claim:

Many Sahaba (including Grand Sahaba) didn't know this Prohibition till Rasool (saw) died... Nay, Sunni Claim these Grand Sahaba didn't know the prohibition till at least Middle or End of Umar's long Caliphate. And there are Grand Sahaba like Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari who is witnessing in Sunni books that they kept on doing Muttah during Complete Rasool's (saw) era, then Abu Bakr's era and in Umar's era till the incident of 'Amr bin Huraith happened.

Note: This 2nd Claim is totally against ali.Haider's (non-Shia member) claim above.

It is very clear from the Tradition above that:

1. Although Muttah marriage in Islam had absolutely nothing to do with any temporary marriage of Jahilliyyah Era.

Why?

While in Islam Surah Nis'a was revealed in earlier 2-3 years of Madinian Period. In this Surah Allah gave the Orders about contracting relations with Women and described the conditions which made these relations Pure of any filth of Jahiliyyah era. Like 'Iddah Period, Concept of Mahram Women, the rights of children and rights of wife..... These were the conditions which made Islamic Nikah and Muttah pure of the filth of Jahiliyyah time Nikah or temporary marriage.

Now the anti Muta'h people ask where is the proof that Muttah was also practiced with the Conditions of 'Iddah, Mahram women etc. Our counter question is do you believe that Sahaba and Sahabiat used to indulge in Muttah Marriage during Period of Surah Nisa (first 2-3 years of Madinian period) and Khayber (6th-7th Hijri) without considering the conditions of 'Iddah and Meham Women?

I don't know which lame excuse will be brought by these people, but I am sure that Surah Nisa was the time when not only these Conditions made Islami Nikah separate of Jahiliyyah Nikah, but also the Islamic Muttah was separated from the Jahilyyah time temprary marriage. This is the ONLY Reason why Rasool Allah (saw) is witnessing that Muttah is not fornication or Fahisha, but HALAL and among Tayyibaat (pure of any kind of filth).

So, despite all these lame excuses, the QUESTION remains open for these anti Muta'h people to answer us why Rasool Allah (saw) is not declaring Muttah to be fornication and Fahishah Nijasah of Jahiliyyah era, instead of declaring it Halal and among Tayibaat?

And this tradition shows itself that Rasool (saw) is getting UPSET upon Sahaba's behaviour and asking them: "Why they are not contracting Muttah Marriage which has been made HALAL by Allah and among Pure Tayyibaat thing (free of filth)? And then Rasool (saw) advising them to not to make those things Haram which have been made Halal by Allah.

So Rasool (saw) is very clear that Muttah was Halal. Now these Anti Sunni People have to answer this Question why Sahaba were then not practicing upon it.

We will discuss the Sunni Fabricated false hadith about Khyber later on. Insha-Allah. First of all let us see which twists and lame excuses are now being made by these people.

Edited by zainabia

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Once again, the summary of questions for ali.haider (non shia member):

1. Do you agree with 1400 years old Sunni excuse that Muttah was a practice of Jahiliyyah which kept on being practised in Islam too till Khayber (6-7 Hijri) where it was made Haram?

2. Do you agree with Sunni excuse of last 1400 years that Sahaba and Sahabiat kept on doing Fornication and Fahisha (i.e. Muta'h according to Sunni logic)) till middle of Umar's Caliphate while they never heard of any prohibition?

3. Do you agree Rasool (saw) testified that Muttah is among Halal (not a Jahiliyyah practice but made Halal by Allah according to Islamic Conditions of 'Iddah and Mehram women conditions etc.)? That is why Rasool (saw) also testifying that it is among Tayyibat (i.e. pure of any filth).

4. Do you believe that Sahaba and Sahabiat kept on doing Zina and Fahisha (in name of Muttah according to Sunni logic) till middle of Umar's Caliphate while they never observed the conditions of 'Iddah and Mehram women?

5. If you claim that Sahaba and Sahabiat did Muta'h according to Conditions of 'Iddah and Mehram Women, then tell us why then Sahaba were reluctant to do Muttah and instead of this they wanted to castrate themselves?

Please note, our main and basic point at moment is not this that afterwards this Halal and Tayyib (pure of filth) thing was made Haram or not, but main point is this that it has never been Zina or fahisha and today Sunnies claim about Muta'h. (we will come to Khayber later on. Insha-Allah).

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Wow some of you guys are very weird. No, I did not RUN OFF.. and i said to leave everything and answer my question! and no one did SO FAR. If it brings dishonour and shame upon a prominent scholar if his daughter is given into Mut'ah marriage, doesn't that mean it will bring dishonour and shame upon EVERYONE?! OR ONLY the "prominent" scholars because they are more important etc etc? Forget the legality in Islam and just answer the d*** question!

Are you deaf?

Have we not told you that Mutah has been made HALAL by Allah and it brings neither dishonour nor shame to any one. These are Sunnies who have made Mutah an abuse (same way as Anti Islam people have made 4 marriage permission to Men in Islam as an Abuse.

Aima (as) have clearly told that there is no problem with Hashmia woman doing Muttah, but the condition is same of "KUFF" as in Nikah marriage. So, if man is a KUFF then there is absolutely no problem, no dishonour, no shame. But if a Nasibi come and his only intention is to abuse it by doing DRAMA of asking Muttah with women, then the teaching of Aima (as) is to turn away your faces with such Nasibi abusers.

And now let me ask you a question: "Why are you so deaf and blind that you are running behind what Shia Scholars do. Is it not so that you have only to be interested in the Question either Allah has made it Halal or Haram? And if Allah has made it HALAL, then whole world has no value. Sadly, your behaviour is only fitna creation. It is of no value for people like you what Allah has made Halal or Haram and instead of this your only aim is to abuse the others and indulge in useless talk."

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Are you deaf?

Have we not told you that Mutah has been made HALAL by Allah and it brings neither dishonour nor shame to any one. These are Sunnies who have made Mutah an abuse (same way as Anti Islam people have made 4 marriage permission to Men in Islam as an Abuse.

Aima (as) have clearly told that there is no problem with Hashmia woman doing Muttah, but the condition is same of "KUFF" as in Nikah marriage. So, if man is a KUFF then there is absolutely no problem, no dishonour, no shame. But if a Nasibi come and his only intention is to abuse it by doing DRAMA of asking Muttah with women, then the teaching of Aima (as) is to turn away your faces with such Nasibi abusers.

And now let me ask you a question: "Why are you so deaf and blind that you are running behind what Shia Scholars do. Is it not so that you have only to be interested in the Question either Allah has made it Halal or Haram? And if Allah has made it HALAL, then whole world has no value. Sadly, your behaviour is only fitna creation. It is of no value for people like you what Allah has made Halal or Haram and instead of this your only aim is to abuse the others and indulge in useless talk."

Of course we will never agree with you about its legality in Islam BUT If a Shia scholar encourages Mut'ah marriage and he urges others to do it, but does not let his daughters do it, is that not hypocrisy? These are probably the same Shia scholars you all revere right? So there is clearly a conflict here.. and I am very confused, you are saying it does NOT bring dishonour and shame??

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Start of Lame Sunni Excuses

ali.haider, on 20 April 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

Please clear one point:

"to marry women with a temporary contract (Mut'ah)"

Can you please clearly highlight the word "temporary contract" in arabic (above).

Excuse!

I think i asked you some thing.

Please first of all change your name from ali.haider to your own name as you want to deceive by using this nick. Thanks.

You did not noticed below my avatar

Religion:ahlul sunnah wal jammah

Secondly, why are you so much Blind that you are asking this Proof from us?

Why are you unable to see that it is your own Salafi Wahabi Alim Mohsin Khan who has translated it as "Temporary Marriage". Then this Official Saudi Translation has been authenticated by whole Group of your Wahabi Salafi Ulama. Now tell us why don't you go to them and blame them for corruption in translation of Sahih Bukhari?

As I said before: highlight word "temporary marriage" in arabic hadith of bukhari.

And once you are finished with Saudi Mohsin Khan and whole group of these Wahabi Salafi Ulama, then you must take out almost all the Previous Sunni Ulama of whole 1400 years out of their grave and ask them this question, while there is NOT a SINGLE of them who ever doubted that here:

1) Abdullah Ibn Masood is talking about Temporary Marriage.

2) And he is witnessing that the words Tayyibaat (i.e. Pure of any kind of filth) has been used and HALAL have been used by Rasool Allah (saw) for Mut'ah Marriage. Yes, the same Mut'ah Marriage to whom you people have been claiming to be the Prostitution and Fahishah for the last 13 Centuries. Now you could cry or beat yourself, but witness of Rasool (saw) is Enough for us and every Single Real Muslim.

Even after this you try to cast doubt in it, then no one could stop you from casting doubts. And only Allah could take you people out of these DOUBTS otherwise you will be drowned in your doubts.

Did Ibn massod (ra) narrated hadith in english?

Ofcourse not.

Therefore i asked you to highlight word "temporary marriage" in arabic hadith.

by ali.Haider(the non-Shia member) wrote:

Please translate this satatement also:

Could you please make it clear WHY should it be I who translate it for you? If you claim you have made a discovery, then please come up with DALEEL, and not the Drama which you are doing here.

Why to change the Topic?

This is not change of topic.

I requested for translation because in arabic link: it is written فتح الباري بشرح صحيح البخاري

U skipped explaination of that hadith by baari.

So please translate it:

‏قَوْله : ( خَالِد ) ‏

‏هُوَ اِبْن عَبْد اللَّه الطَّحَّان , وَإِسْمَاعِيل هُوَ اِبْن أَبِي خَالِد , وَقَيْس هُوَ اِبْن أَبِي حَازِم , وَعَبْد اللَّه هُوَ اِبْن مَسْعُود . وَسَيَأْتِي شَرْح الْحَدِيث فِي كِتَاب النِّكَاح وَفِي التِّرْمِذِيّ مُحَسَّنًا مِنْ حَدِيث اِبْن عَبَّاس " أَنَّ رَجُلًا أَتَى النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَقَالَ : يَا رَسُول اللَّه إِذَا أَكَلْت مِنْ هَذَا اللَّحْم اِنْتَشَرْت , وَإِنِّي حَرَّمْت عَلَيَّ اللَّحْم فَنَزَلَتْ " وَرَوَى اِبْن أَبِي حَاتِم مِنْ وَجْه آخَر عَنْ اِبْن عَبَّاس أَنَّهَا نَزَلَتْ فِي نَاس قَالُوا " نَتْرُك شَهَوَات الدُّنْيَا وَنَسِيح فِي الْأَرْض " الْحَدِيث . وَسَيَأْتِي مَا يَتَعَلَّق بِهِ أَيْضًا فِي كِتَاب النِّكَاح إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّه تَعَالَى

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=0&Rec=6687

It is not SHIA but SUNNI Claim that Muttah continued in Islam right from beginning till Khaybar when it was Prohibited

Anti Muta'h people and their Ulama have made two claims throughout 1400 years of history:

1st Claim:

Muttah was practiced initially in Islam till it was made Haram in Khayber.

2nd Claim:

Many Sahaba (including Grand Sahaba) didn't know this Prohibition till Rasool (saw) died... Nay, Sunni Claim these Grand Sahaba didn't know the prohibition till at least Middle or End of Umar's long Caliphate. And there are Grand Sahaba like Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari who is witnessing in Sunni books that they kept on doing Muttah during Complete Rasool's (saw) era, then Abu Bakr's era and in Umar's era till the incident of 'Amr bin Huraith happened.

Note: This 2nd Claim is totally against ali.Haider's (non-Shia member) claim above.

Please tell us what incident it was?

It is very clear from the Tradition above that:

1. Although Muttah marriage in Islam had absolutely nothing to do with any temporary marriage of Jahilliyyah Era.

Why?

While in Islam Surah Nis'a was revealed in earlier 2-3 years of Madinian Period. In this Surah Allah gave the Orders about contracting relations with Women and described the conditions which made these relations Pure of any filth of Jahiliyyah era. Like 'Iddah Period, Concept of Mahram Women, the rights of children and rights of wife..... These were the conditions which made Islamic Nikah and Muttah pure of the filth of Jahiliyyah time Nikah or temporary marriage.

Now the anti Muta'h people ask where is the proof that Muttah was also practiced with the Conditions of 'Iddah, Mahram women etc. Our counter question is do you believe that Sahaba and Sahabiat used to indulge in Muttah Marriage during Period of Surah Nisa (first 2-3 years of Madinian period) and Khayber (6th-7th Hijri) without considering the conditions of 'Iddah and Meham Women?

I don't know which lame excuse will be brought by these people, but I am sure that Surah Nisa was the time when not only these Conditions made Islami Nikah separate of Jahiliyyah Nikah, but also the Islamic Muttah was separated from the Jahilyyah time temprary marriage. This is the ONLY Reason why Rasool Allah (saw) is witnessing that Muttah is not fornication or Fahisha, but HALAL and among Tayyibaat (pure of any kind of filth).

So, despite all these lame excuses, the QUESTION remains open for these anti Muta'h people to answer us why Rasool Allah (saw) is not declaring Muttah to be fornication and Fahishah Nijasah of Jahiliyyah era, instead of declaring it Halal and among Tayibaat?

And this tradition shows itself that Rasool (saw) is getting UPSET upon Sahaba's behaviour and asking them: "Why they are not contracting Muttah Marriage which has been made HALAL by Allah and among Pure Tayyibaat thing (free of filth)? And then Rasool (saw) advising them to not to make those things Haram which have been made Halal by Allah.

So Rasool (saw) is very clear that Muttah was Halal. Now these Anti Sunni People have to answer this Question why Sahaba were then not practicing upon it.

We will discuss the Sunni Fabricated false hadith about Khyber later on. Insha-Allah. First of all let us see which twists and lame excuses are now being made by these people.

Again your claim is useless because you didnot answered what i asked.

Edited by ali.haider

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(bismillah)

(salam)

bro khan this is the crux

we have each made our own space and forgetten the space of islam

answer the sisters questions if you really doubt it's legality in islam

otherwise you are really arguing in arrogance and vanity

to learn the haq is a favour upon yourself, not anyone else

(wasalam)

sorry let me rephrase.. I will never (at least for now) agree with you pertaining to the Mut'ah marriage because I don't even know the full story from my side so how can I make such a decision knowing only the Shia side. I just want to know the answer to a simple question, but it seems as if it's very hard to get it out of you guys, no?

Edited by DrKhan

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(bismillah)

(salam)

bro please don't spoil the thread between zainabia and ali haider

so you reject without knowing all, these are not principles of justice

that surely is not correct

i am going to delete my posts in about 30 mins

(wasalam)

Brother please,

If I don't know about something, I am obviously going to follow my Madh'hab until I gain more knowledge and then make the full decision then! I am not asking a question about the legality of Mut'ah marriage in Islam, right now I just want the answer to my question brother. Another question, why was this thread taken off the sticky thing? Only answer this question if you are willing to answer my other post 45 and 50

Edited by DrKhan

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Brother please,

If I don't know about something, I am obviously going to follow my Madh'hab until I gain more knowledge and then make the full decision then! I am not asking a question about the legality of Mut'ah marriage in Islam, right now I just want the answer to my question brother. Another question, why was this thread taken off the sticky thing? Only answer this question if you are willing to answer my other post 45 and 50

(bismillah)

(salam)

bro you have your answer in 49 but you seem not to be able to understand it

take off the biased view

and it is quite fair to follow your madhab till such time you have made a thorough research, which you are being afforded the opportunity by the discussion between zainabia and ali haider, and which you are not availing

bro it is far far more important for you to know the halal and haram of muhammad (pbuh) rather than by relying on you tube videos.

this is a better place and there is at least one knowledgeable brother here, so please learn the halal and haram first

afterall this is the recommendation/verdict of the holy quran

(wasalam)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

bro you have your answer in 49 but you seem not to be able to understand it

take off the biased view

and it is quite fair to follow your madhab till such time you have made a thorough research, which you are being afforded the opportunity by the discussion between zainabia and ali haider, and which you are not availing

bro it is far far more important for you to know the halal and haram of muhammad (pbuh) rather than by relying on you tube videos.

this is a better place and there is at least one knowledgeable brother here, so please learn the halal and haram first

afterall this is the recommendation/verdict of the holy quran

(wasalam)

Yes, and mut'ah is haraam, as are misyar and 'urfi.

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Sunni say Muttah is ZINA, while Allah's Prophet testifies that Muttah is among HALAL & Tayyibaat (Pure of any Filth)

Not only sunni's but sahaba's (ra) too.

As I stated earlier, Sunnies always leave the field and run away when we show them the Counter Proofs. Let us start here with these Proofs and any one could see the running of these People.

Sahih al Bukhari Volume 7 tradition 13a

Narrated 'Abdullah Ibn Masud: We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated (for fear of making sin)?" He forbade us (to castrate ourselves) and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract (Mut'ah) and recited to us: 'O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things (Tayyibaat i.e. Pure THINGS), which Allah has made lawful (HALAL) for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)

Online Link to Arabic Version of this hadith

U only quoted hadith from bukhari.

Here is the hadith from sahih muslim:

Muslim : Book 8 : Hadith 3243

Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment, and 'Abdullah then recited this verse: 'Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like trangressers" (al-Qur'an, v. 87).

& good point to note here again Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) is involved & he recited the verse 87 not muhammad (pbuh) , [but slightly different wordings (& chain is same)].

Here is another hadith from sahih bukhari which implies that muhammad (pbuh) disliked of celibacy and castration:

4786. Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab said, "I heard Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas say, 'The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade celibacy to 'Uthman ibn Maz'un. If he had allowed that him to do that, we would have had ourselves castrated.'"

Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab reported that he heard Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas say "He (i.e. the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace) forbade 'Uthman ibn Maz'un to do that. If he had allowed him celibacy, we would have had ourselves castrated."

& my answer is that to understand the hadith of bukhari, we have to first collect all hadith (muslim, tirmidhi etc) regarding same incident & compare, then extract the final wordings. (this is very basic concept of hadith science)

This is not nessecary what u think is the reality. You have to first check the fatwa of sheikh ul islam to know what they think about the hadith which you are using against sunni's for official challange. lol.

islamweb fatwa

Additional points:

By Drkhan: Why do the prominent scholars not let their daughters into Mut'ah marriage? What do you mean it will dishonour and bring shame upon the family if they partake in it? OMG does that mean that it brings dishonour and shame upon everyone or only for high-fi people like scholars?

No Sunni Imam/Mufti has answered this up till now and could never answer it ever. They could keep on blaming Muttah to be ZINA for centuries, but here we have the witness of Prophet of Allah (swt) himself where he is declaring that:

1) Muttah is not Zina but among TAYYIBAAT (pure of any filth)

2) And Allah made Muttah HALAL. So how could you declare it Haram.

Let us see if any Sunni Mufti could ever REFUTE this Witness of Prophet of Allah (saw).

No shia marji explained me this:

Bihar al anwar:

Ahmad bin Muhammad bin ‘Eesaa reported in his Nawaadir and Ibn Idrees in his Saraa’ir from ibn Abee ‘Umayr from Hishaam bin al-Hakamm from Abee Abdillaah (this is Ja’far as Saadiq) ( about Mut’ah) and he said: It’s not done with us except by the Fujjaar (transgressors and criminals).

You can see this hadith on-line in . volume 100, p 318 of Bihar al anwar (arabic)

& sanad is sahih.

Shia sheikh al-Majad said:

“It’s chain in “Nawadir†is reliable (motabar), and it was reported by author of Wasail from “Nawadirâ€, and his chain till book “Nawadir†is reliableâ€.

sheikh al-Majad's fatwa (arabic)

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Lie exposed at first step

Watch following 2 Statements by mfkhan:

First statement: Where he is trying to prove that it was not Rasool (saw), but it was SAHABI Abdullah Ibn Masood who claimed that Muttah is Halal and among Tayyibaat (pure of filth) and thus absolutely not ZINA or Fahishah as present day Sunnies claim.

U only quoted hadith from bukhari.

Here is the hadith from sahih muslim:

Muslim : Book 8 : Hadith 3243

Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment, and 'Abdullah then recited this verse: 'Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like trangressers" (al-Qur'an, v. 87).

& good point to note here again Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) is involved & he recited the verse 87 not muhammad (pbuh) , [but slightly different wordings (& chain is same)].

And here is 2nd Statement:

Not only sunni's but sahaba's (ra) too.

But this same person has tried to prove above that Sahabi Abudullah Ibn Masood got the contrary Aqeedah about Muttah than the Sunnies. So either it was Rasool (saw) or it was Sahabi Abdullah Ibn Abbas, but in either way they considered Muttah to be Halal and among Tayyibaat contrary to Sunnies who consider it to be ZINA and FAHISHA.

The Deception and Double Standards when dealing with Hadith of Abdullah Ibn Masood:

* The Hadith in Bukhari tells that Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Masood told that it was "Rasool Allah (saw)" who recited them the verse of Quran.

Sahih al Bukhari Volume 7 tradition 13a

Narrated 'Abdullah Ibn Masud: We used to participate in the holy battles led by
Allah
's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated (for fear of making sin)?" He forbade us (to castrate ourselves) and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract (Mut'ah)
and recited to us:
'O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things (Tayyibaat i.e. Pure THINGS), which
Allah
has made lawful (HALAL) for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)

* Mr. Mfkhan is denying this hadith of Bukhari by claiming that in Tradition of Muslim the narrator agrees too that Abdullah Ibn Masood recited this Verse of Quran, but narrator didn't mention the name of Rasool (saw).

Muslim : Book 8 : Hadith 3243

Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: We were on an expedition with
Allah
's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment,
and 'Abdullah then recited this verse
: 'Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which
Allah
has made lawful for you, and do not transgress.
Allah
does not like trangressers" (al-Qur'an, v. 87).

So, if narrator of Muslim has forgotten or not completely remembered this small part " and recited to us" this is enough for Mr. MfKhan to Deny the Hadith of Bukhari Totally.

* But Mr. mfkhan also forgotten to quote the next hadith from same Sahih Muslim:

Book 008, Number 3244:

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Jarir with the same chain of transmitters and he also recited this (above-mentioned verse) to us,
but he did not say that 'Abdullah recited it
.

So Mr mfkhan (according to your logic), on bases of this tradition now you have also to refuse accept the earlier tradition above too that Abdullah Ibn Masood recited this Verse while Narrator here forgot to mention the name of Abdullah Ibn Masood.

* But things don't stop here. But there is one another the very next Tradition which once again mrkhan didn't quote:

Book 008, Number 3245:

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Isma'il with the same chain of transmitters (and the words are):" We were young, so we said:
Allah
's Messenger, should we not have ourselves castrated? But he (the narrator)
did not say; We were on an expedition."

Very Interesting Contradiction. According to mrkhan logic in light of this tradition then one had to deny any "Expedition" and accept that they did Muttah without expeditions. But interesting contradiction is this that here Sunni accept that narrator forgot and stay with the earlier "Expedition" thing.

This is known as "Double Standards/Hypocracy".

* The Standard is this that tradition of Muslim COULD in no way be used in order to deny the tradition of Bukhari.

* In 3 narrations in Sahih Muslim, the Narrators have constantly forgotten one or another thing from the previous traditions.

So Mr. mfkhan, please tell us how could you use this tradition of Muslim in order to Deny the hadith of Bukhari?

by mfkhan:

Here is another hadith from sahih bukhari which implies that muhammad (pbuh) disliked of celibacy and castration:

4786. Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab said, "I heard Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas say, 'The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade celibacy to 'Uthman ibn Maz'un. If he had allowed that him to do that, we would have had ourselves castrated.'"

Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab reported that he heard Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas say "He (i.e. the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace) forbade 'Uthman ibn Maz'un to do that. If he had allowed him celibacy, we would have had ourselves castrated."

& my answer is that to understand the hadith of bukhari, we have to first collect all hadith (muslim, tirmidhi etc) regarding same incident & compare, then extract the final wordings. (this is very basic concept of hadith science)

This is not nessecary what u think is the reality. You have to first check the fatwa of sheikh ul islam to know what they think about the hadith which you are using against sunni's for official challange. lol.

islamweb fatwa

Unrelated Stuff, which proves nothing in any way.

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Lie exposed at first step

Watch following 2 Statements by mfkhan:

First statement: Where he is trying to prove that it was not Rasool (saw), but it was SAHABI Abdullah Ibn Masood who claimed that Muttah is Halal and among Tayyibaat (pure of filth) and thus absolutely not ZINA or Fahishah as present day Sunnies claim.

And here is 2nd Statement:

But this same person has tried to prove above that Sahabi Abudullah Ibn Masood got the contrary Aqeedah about Muttah than the Sunnies. So either it was Rasool (saw) or it was Sahabi Abdullah Ibn Abbas, but in either way they considered Muttah to be Halal and among Tayyibaat contrary to Sunnies who consider it to be ZINA and FAHISHA.

Sigh.

You skipped this statement:

& my answer is that to understand the hadith of bukhari, we have to first collect all hadith (muslim, tirmidhi etc) regarding same incident & compare, then extract the final wordings. (this is very basic concept of hadith science)

I only tried to prove that Muhammad (pbuh) or Ibn masood (ra) didnot said mutah as lawful but celibacy and castration as unlawful.

As a proof i referred:

Here is another hadith from sahih bukhari which implies that muhammad disliked of celibacy and castration:

4786. Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab said, "I heard Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas say, 'The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade celibacy to 'Uthman ibn Maz'un. If he had allowed that him to do that, we would have had ourselves castrated.'"

Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab reported that he heard Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas say "He (i.e. the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace) forbade 'Uthman ibn Maz'un to do that. If he had allowed him celibacy, we would have had ourselves castrated."

As well as this fatwa: islamweb fatwa

Read this:

Al Qurtubi said commenting on the verse: and indeed I will order them to change the nature created by Allâh. [4:119] 'that it is forbidden to extinguish human reproduction as it is mutilating and changing the creation of Allah.'

Ibn Masoud (Radiya Allahu Anhu) also said, "We in a battle with the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) and did not have wives. So we asked ‘why don’t we get castrated? The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) forbid us to do so." Agreed upon [Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim]

Castration is forbidden because it is a way of permanently preventing the ability of fertilization in a man. Also permanently preventing pregnancy in a woman is forbidden, because both methods prevent pregnancy-taking place at its source. It is known that among the objectives of Shariah is to protect the human reproduction.

& this is the reason why prophet (pbuh) or ibn masood (ra) recieted that verse 87.

The Deception and Double Standards when dealing with Hadith of Abdullah Ibn Masood:

* The Hadith in Bukhari tells that Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Masood told that it was "Rasool Allah (saw)" who recited them the verse of Quran.

Sahih al Bukhari Volume 7 tradition 13a

Narrated 'Abdullah Ibn Masud: We used to participate in the holy battles led by
Allah
's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated (for fear of making sin)?" He forbade us (to castrate ourselves) and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract (Mut'ah)
and recited to us:
'O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things (Tayyibaat i.e. Pure THINGS), which
Allah
has made lawful (HALAL) for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)

* Mr. Mfkhan is denying this hadith of Bukhari by claiming that in Tradition of Muslim the narrator agrees too that Abdullah Ibn Masood recited this Verse of Quran, but narrator didn't mention the name of Rasool (saw).

Muslim : Book 8 : Hadith 3243

Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: We were on an expedition with
Allah
's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment,
and 'Abdullah then recited this verse
: 'Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which
Allah
has made lawful for you, and do not transgress.
Allah
does not like trangressers" (al-Qur'an, v. 87).

So, if narrator of Muslim has forgotten or not completely remembered this small part " and recited to us" this is enough for Mr. MfKhan to Deny the Hadith of Bukhari Totally.

Lol. Did i denied hadith totally! I only shown the same hadith i found regarding same incident.

* But Mr. mfkhan also forgotten to quote the next hadith from same Sahih Muslim:

Book 008, Number 3244:

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Jarir with the same chain of transmitters and he also recited this (above-mentioned verse) to us,
but he did not say that 'Abdullah recited it
.

So Mr mfkhan (according to your logic), on bases of this tradition now you have also to refuse accept the earlier tradition above too that Abdullah Ibn Masood recited this Verse while Narrator here forgot to mention the name of Abdullah Ibn Masood.

I only took the narration recorded from same narrators.

Previously i said: & good point to note here again Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) is involved & he recited the verse 87 not muhammad (pbuh) , [but slightly different wordings (& chain is same)].

I think your understanding power is so weak.

* But things don't stop here. But there is one another the very next Tradition which once again mrkhan didn't quote:

Book 008, Number 3245:

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Isma'il with the same chain of transmitters (and the words are):" We were young, so we said:
Allah
's Messenger, should we not have ourselves castrated? But he (the narrator)
did not say; We were on an expedition."

Very Interesting Contradiction. According to mrkhan logic in light of this tradition then one had to deny any "Expedition" and accept that they did Muttah without expeditions. But interesting contradiction is this that here Sunni accept that narrator forgot and stay with the earlier "Expedition" thing.

This is known as "Double Standards/Hypocracy".

Lol. refer above quote. I only quoted chain of same narrator.

* The Standard is this that tradition of Muslim COULD in no way be used in order to deny the tradition of Bukhari.

* In 3 narrations in Sahih Muslim, the Narrators have constantly forgotten one or another thing from the previous traditions.

So Mr. mfkhan, please tell us how could you use this tradition of Muslim in order to Deny the hadith of Bukhari?

Deny!

Sigh. read the posts again, & atleast try to grasp something.

Unrelated Stuff, which proves nothing in any way.

Really unrelated.

You claimed: "No Sunni Imam/Mufti has answered this up till now and could never answer it ever."

& you didnot even tried to understand what is sunni science of hadith & challenging officially. lol.

U skiped this:

No shia marji explained me this:

Bihar al anwar:

Ahmad bin Muhammad bin ‘Eesaa reported in his Nawaadir and Ibn Idrees in his Saraa’ir from ibn Abee ‘Umayr from Hishaam bin al-Hakamm from Abee Abdillaah (this is Ja’far as Saadiq) ( about Mut’ah) and he said: It’s not done with us except by the Fujjaar (transgressors and criminals).

You can see this hadith on-line in . volume 100, p 318 of Bihar al anwar (arabic)

& sanad is sahih.

Shia sheikh al-Majad said:

“It’s chain in “Nawadir†is reliable (motabar), and it was reported by author of Wasail from “Nawadirâ€, and his chain till book “Nawadir†is reliableâ€.

sheikh al-Majad's fatwa (arabic)

It also looks like official challange. lol.

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No shia marji explained me this:

Lol, this has already been explained at AA long time ago.

Bihar al anwar:

Ahmad bin Muhammad bin ‘Eesaa reported in his Nawaadir and Ibn Idrees in his Saraa’ir from ibn Abee ‘Umayr from Hishaam bin al-Hakamm from Abee Abdillaah (this is Ja’far as Saadiq) ( about Mut’ah) and he said: It’s not done with us except by the Fujjaar (transgressors and criminals).

You can see this hadith on-line in . volume 100, p 318 of Bihar al anwar (arabic)

& sanad is sahih.

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I only tried to prove that Muhammad (pbuh) or Ibn masood (ra) didnot said mutah as lawful but celibacy and castration as unlawful.

Ok, I have read things again, and your explanation seems to be convincing that that VERSE was recited by Rasool Allah (saw) about castration and not about Muttah.

And stay with us, there are many more challenges for you to answer.

by mfkhan:

Not only sunni's but sahaba's ra.gif too. (i.e. Muttah is Zina and fahisha)

Here once again for you witness of Sahaba and Mufasir-e-Quran Ibn Abbas, which is totally against the sunni claim of muttah being Zina and fahishah:

ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÒÇÞ Úä ÇÈä ÌÑíÌ ÞÇá : ÃÎÈÑäí ÚØÇÁ Ãäå ÓãÚ ÇÈä ÚÈÇÓ : (íÑÇåÇ ÇáÂä ÍáÇáÇ ¡ æÃÎÈÑäí Ãäå ßÇä íÞÑà ÝãÇ ÇÓÊãÊÚÊã Èå ãäåä ÝÂÊæåä ÃÌæÑåä ÝÑíÖÉ ¡ æÞÇá ÇÈä ÚÈÇÓ : Ýí ÍÑÝ Åáì ÃÌá ¡ ÞÇá ÚØÇÁ : æÃÎÈÑäí ãä ÔÆÊ Úä ÃÈí ÓÚíÏ ÇáÎÏÑí ÞÇá : áÞÏ ßÇä ÃÍÏäÇ ÓÊãÊÚ ÈãáÁ ÇáÞÏÍ ÓæíÞÇð ¡ æÞÇá ÕÝæÇä : åÐÇ ÇÈä ÚÈÇÓ íÝÊí ÈÇáÒäÇ ¡ ÝÞÇá ÇÈä ÚÈÇÓ : Åäí áÇ ÃÝÊí ÈÇáÒäÇ ¡ ÃÝäÓí ÕÝæÇä Ãã ÃÑÇßÉ ¡ ÝæÇááå Åä ÇÈäåÇ áãä Ðáß ¡ ÃÝÒäÇð åæ ¿ ÞÇá : æÇÓÊãÚ ÈåÇ ÑÌá ãä Èäí ÌãÍ .).

http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/showHadiths2.php?BNo=1646&BkNo=17&KNo=16&startno=15

Abdul Razzaq from Ibn Jurayj who said: 'Ata' told me he heard Ibn Abbas sees it (mut'ah) as halal now and told me he recited, "Fama istamta'tum bihi minhunna fa aatuhunna ujurahunna fareedhah." (4:24) And Ibn Abbas said: "Fi" means to an appointed time. 'Ata' said: Someone told me from Abu Sa'id al-Khudri that he said, "We used to do mut'ah with a bowl full of saweeq." And Safwan said: Ibn Abbas is giving fatwa on zina. Ibn Abbas said: I don't give fatwa on zina, did Safwan forget Umm Rakah, by Allah her son is from (that), so did she do zina? And said: And a man from Bani Jumah has had mut'ah with her.

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Lol, this has already been explained at AA long time ago.

Thanks, you helped me to search one more lie of AA.org.

This tradition has been taken originally from the book of Ahmad bin 'Isa's book "al-Nawadar", where a lot of other traditions are present about Muttah being Halal. Now opponents want to take this Tradition out of context in order to use it to prove that Muttah is Haram.

Same thing you tried with sunni's few days back by claiming it official challange. lol.

There are plenty of narrations in bukhari which proves mutah is haram. Now some of you shia opponents take this tradition out of context in order to prove that Muttah is Halal!

& when it comes to your side you are not accepting my view (my official challange. lol.)

In this Tradition, Imam (as) used the word "Indina" (means here/with us), which clearly indicates that Imam (as) is talking about a "specific time" or "specific place".

Pure lie.

indina is used to define some group of peoples following same religion.

Let me explain: inna, anna, lakkina, laika, kaanna, & laalla are called mushabba bil khail in arabic grammer.

& it is used to strees something.

& therefore indaana means in our religion (or muslim community) means those who follow religion of muhammad (pbuh) .

Therefore Jafar as sadiq (ra) want to include true followers by word indina.

This word "Indina" is explained better when we look at the other traditions too where it is told that at that specific time and place, due to Government cruel policies and propaganda, the practice of Muttah came to an end. Therefore those women increased who were professional Prostitutes, and for them it didn't make any difference that either some one make Zina with them, or do Nikah with them and give Talaq next day, or to do Muttah. These prostitutes women only wanted to make money, and they didn't take care of 'Iddah or any other condition.

Therefore, Imam (as) is telling that such prostitute women are FAWAJIR (while they don't take care of 'iddah period or conditions of Mohsineen.

Lol. Lame excuse. You have to present hadith regarding this grammetic concept. (with online link)

Imam Abu Jaffar (as) said:

4585 - Narrated by Hasan bin Mahboob - Abaan - Abi Maryam that Abi Jaffar [as] was asked about Mutah, he replied: 'These days, Mutah is not like it used to be earlier (where Pure & Secure Women were ready to do Muttah deeming it Halal), as there used to be secure (women) but now a days, they are not secure, therefore ask about them (to women with you want to do Muttah).'

1. Min la Yahdruhu al-Fiqih, Volume 3 page 292 Hadith 4585

2. Al-Kafi, Volume 5 page 453 Hadith 2

3. Tahdeeb al-Ahkam, Volume 7 page 251 Hadith (1084)9

Sheikh Muhammad Baqer Behbodi decalred it 'Sahih' in his book "Sahih Men la Yahdruhu al-Fiqeh" page 287

Imam differentiated between two Period of times in above tradition.

1) the women of Past who were Secure and Pure.

2) The women of his days.

From Past days it is meant that Muttah was deemed totally Halal from the times of Rasool Allah (saw) till middle of Umar's Caliphate, and due to Travel or other reasons still it was possible to get the Secure Women ready to do Muttah Marriage. After prohibition of Muttah by Umar Ibn Khattab, still it was possible to find Secure Women for Muttah while Hadhrat Ibn Abbas and then his Students propagated Muttah as Halal till end of first Century in Mecca and Yemen.

But after that such propaganda was done and such false Traditions were fabricated by Bani Umiyyah Caliphate that every one started deeming Muttah to be Haram and it became next to impossible to get a Secure women for Muttah marriage. But this back fired and ZINA started to spread in the society and every where such prostitutes were easiy available who were ready to do any thing to make money without taking care of Conditions of Allah (swt) which were revealed for Muttah Marriage (i.e. Iddah and Mohsineen etc.)

So, this tradition is of no use for Opponents as no where it is telling that Imam (as) has declared Muttah Haram in it, but he (as) is only telling that "There" in "That particular time and Area" where Imam (as) lived, only Fuwajir were doing that.

Therefore, Imam (as) said further in a tradition that:

4586 -

http://www.mezan.net/books/manlayahdraho/fakeeh3/html/ara/books/faqih/faqih-3/a156.html

Dawood bin Ishaq reports from Mohammed bin Faiz that he asked Imam Ja'afar al- Sadiq about mut'ah. The Imam replied, "Yes, it's in order provided the woman you approach recognizes it." I asked again, "What if she does not?" The Imam replied, "Then inform her about it and if she refuses to accept it or still does not understand it then do not go any further with her.
However, one should refrain from Kuwashaf, Dawai, Baghaya, and Zawat Alzawaj." I asked, "Who are the Kuwashaf?" The Imam replied, "Those who are disgraceful and shameless and their homes are well known to people and they frequently visit them." I asked, "Who are the Dawai?" The Imam replied, "These are those women who invite men for (pleasure) and are famous for corruption." I asked, "Who are the Baghanya?" The Imam replied, "These are well known for zina." I asked, "Who are the Zawat Alzawaj?" The Imam replied, "These are those whose divorce has not been as per the sunnah."

Translation from: http://hubeali.com/practices/chapter-6-family-life.pdf (PDF)

More here: http://www.rafed.net/books/hadith/wasael-21/v02.html#8

And Imam Raza (as) said:

Imam Raza (as) said: And if a woman is famous for being prostitute then neither Nikah nor Muttah could be done with her.

It seems conditions changes while answering my official challange. If you ever tried to search the bukhari then you didnot named this as official challange. lol.

Again: My official challange is:

Bihar al anwar:

Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Eesaa reported in his Nawaadir and Ibn Idrees in his Saraair from ibn Abee Umayr from Hishaam bin al-Hakamm from Abee Abdillaah (this is Jafar as Saadiq) ( about Mutah) and he said: It's not done with us except by the Fujjaar (transgressors and criminals).

You can see this hadith on-line in . volume 100, p 318 of Bihar al anwar (arabic)

& sanad is sahih.

Ok, I have read things again, and your explanation seems to be convincing that that VERSE was recited by Rasool Allah (saw) about castration and not about Muttah.

And stay with us, there are many more challenges for you to answer.

Thanks you finally accepted my view.

Inshallah i will stay here for more challenges.

Here once again for you witness of Sahaba and Mufasir-e-Quran Ibn Abbas, which is totally against the sunni claim of muttah being Zina and fahishah:

http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/showHadiths2.php?BNo=1646&BkNo=17&KNo=16&startno=15

Abdul Razzaq from Ibn Jurayj who said: 'Ata' told me he heard Ibn Abbas sees it (mut'ah) as halal now and told me he recited, "Fama istamta'tum bihi minhunna fa aatuhunna ujurahunna fareedhah." (4:24) And Ibn Abbas said: "Fi" means to an appointed time. 'Ata' said: Someone told me from Abu Sa'id al-Khudri that he said, "We used to do mut'ah with a bowl full of saweeq." And Safwan said: Ibn Abbas is giving fatwa on zina. Ibn Abbas said: I don't give fatwa on zina, did Safwan forget Umm Rakah, by Allah her son is from (that), so did she do zina? And said: And a man from Bani Jumah has had mut'ah with her.

Please first check the isnaad of this hadith.

Edited by mfkhan

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Thanks, you helped me to search one more lie of AA.org.

Same thing you tried with sunni's few days back by claiming it official challange. lol.

There are plenty of narrations in bukhari which proves mutah is haram. Now some of you shia opponents take this tradition out of context in order to prove that Muttah is Halal!

& when it comes to your side you are not accepting my view (my official challange. lol.)

Apart from Bukhari, traditions deeming Mutah Haram are there in other Suni Hadith books as well BUT all are contradictory to each other with respect to the timing of Mut'ah being (allegedly) made Haram, fabricated to defend the act done by Umar of declaring both types of Mut'ah Haram!

Please first check the isnaad of this hadith.

I dont know which defect you have been able to mark in the chain but apart from this, there are plethora of evidence that Ibn Abbas was one of those sahaba who deemed Mutah Halal, obviously they did not consider it Zina!

Edited by B-N

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(bismillah)

(salam)

in the dictionary indina is not what mfkhan is saying

it means in al-mawrid, the word ind(ayn, nun, dad)

at, by, near, on, upon, with, when, at the time when, as

(wasalam)

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Please first check the isnaad of this hadith.

The isnaad of this narration is authentic to Ibn Abbaas. This chain is very strong.

As this narration mentions, there was a person named Safwaan who opposed mut'ah and disparaged him for practicing it. A second exchange between Ibn Abbas and Safwaan is recorded in another narration. Upon being challenged, Ibn Abbaas replies, "Ask your mother how to do mut'ah." Not the most intellectual response.

عبد الرزاق قال : قال ابن جريج قال : أخبرني عمرو بن دينار عن طاووس عن ابن عباس قال : : (لم يرع عمر أمير المؤمنين إلا أم أراكة قد خرجت حبلى ، فسألها عمر عن حملها ، فقالت : إستمتع بي سلمة بن أمية بن خلف ، فما أنكر صفوان على ابن عباس بعض ما يقول في ذلك ، قال ك فسل عمك هل استمتع .).

http://islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?bk_no=73&ID=1637&idfrom=13380&idto=13407&bookid=73&startno=4

This is saheeh to Ibn Abbaas. As Ibn Hajr says:

عبد الرزاق بسند صحيح عن عمرو بن دينار عن طاوس عن بن عباس قال لم يرع عمر الا أم أراكة قد خرجت حبلى فسألها عمر فقالت استمتع بي سلمة بن أمية

http://islamport.com/d/1/srh/1/48/1776.html?zoom_highlightsub=%22%C3%E3+%C3%D1%C7%DF%C9%22

Edited by avjar7

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Muta is in the Quran where Allah says in 4:24 that "from those women whom u have BENEFITTED from give them their appointed dowry"

Now tell me a man continues to benefit from his wife and permanent marriage has already been mentioned in the Surah Nisa so what is this marriage is Allah talkin about because Allah doesn not repeat himself twice in the same verse hence what is this marriage?? why did Allah say benefited from?? Also can anyone show me a verse from the Quran where Allah says temporary marriage is forbidden in Islam hmm i mean every Muslim believes that Muta was allowed at the time of the Prophet (s) so can u show me where Allah forbade it hmm why would Allah make something lawful then make it unlawful without a verse from the Quran or ahadith from the messenger ???

Tell me lol :)

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Before you guys go on, please answer my question! and no haideriam, I am NOT wearing biased lens. The Shia Shaykh said it himself! Lets forget the legality for now! That will be discussed later.

All Shia people say Mut'ah is permissible and zainabia said it does NOT bring dishonour and shame to the family. The Shia shaykh in the video was asked the question that why don't prominent Shia scholars let their daughters engage in Mut'ah and he said "It will bring shame and dishonour to the family" and what if some person has a Mut'ah marriage with them, makes them pregnant and leaves them. Does this mean that it only brings shame and dishonour to high-status people? HAATHI AL-AQLANIA?! Oh it is halal in Islam but it brings dishonour and shame to the family?

Edited by DrKhan

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indina is used to define some group of peoples following same religion.

& therefore indaana means in our religion (or muslim community) means those who follow religion of muhammad (pbuh) .

in the dictionary indina is not what mfkhan is saying

it means in al-mawrid, the word ind(ayn, nun, dad)

at, by, near, on, upon, with, when, at the time when, as

(bismillah)

(salam)

i had thought shame was a virtue which is in our fitra

see a child hide itself when it does something wrong

a couple cover themselves when they make love

etc

but i guess from the post of my bro khan it is indeed a rare commodity

getting rarer by the post

bro khan

your biggest and most dutiful worry should be

is it halal or haram

the follow ups are for later

only once you have understood halal and haram

and not laced up with a bigoted and biased view

will you be able to understand the more subtle choices within the rules

(wasalam)

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