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In the Name of God بسم الله

Women's Castigation

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  • Advanced Member

Shakir...

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Why we have to punish a woman? Why the talk it not enough? Does this not violate women's Equal Opportunities? Can anyone answer logic answer?

Edited by beetleking
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  • Advanced Member

Shakir...

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Why we have to punish a woman? Why the talk it not enough? Does this not violate women's Equal Opportunities? Can anyone answer logic answer?

Brother, I don't mean to be rude or condescending, but please be a bit more mature and think this over from a Muslim perspective, NOT a reactionary western feminist one. Punishing a woman does NOT violate any kind of "equal opportunity". Equal Opportunity laws, in whatever country, only pertain to THE WORKPLACE. i.e. everyone should have the "equal opportunity" to earn equal pay for equal work. If you have to punish your wife for something bad she did, that has NOTHING TO DO with the workplace or equal-opportunity laws, so it is NOT a violation of them. She can still work for equal pay as a man, obviously home and work are two different things.

In that verse, Allah (swt) is referring to punishing disobedient women at home, NOT to any kind of work or hiring policies at a business.

On top of that, you DON'T have to punish a woman if talking is enough! If she listens to reason, then obviously she is not in need of punishment. Shakir's translation is a bit hasty here. A better way of translating this verse would be: "And (as for) those from whom you suspect disloyalty, admonish them, THEN (if they do not change) leave them alone in their beds, THEN (if they still do not change) beat them. But if they obey you, then do not seek a way against them; Surely Allah is Most High, Most Great."

Allah (swt) is telling us that if you take the lesser of these steps and the women obey you, then there is NO NEED to move on to the next, more severe step. In other words, if your wife is sorry for being disrespectful to you, you can't beat her since she already apologized.

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Furthermore, men being appointed as guardians/leaders of women is no worse than the NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS. I'm not anti-woman BY ANY MEANS, I love women, however, if you set women over men and give them full power, be prepared for lots of manipulation, lots of broken men, lots of ugly divorces, a rise in sexually frustrated rapists and pedophiles, societal mayhem and possibly even anarchy!

Just look at every time a woman has had political power, the result has ALWAYS been DISASTER!!!!

* Ayesha led an army, rebelled against Imam Ali (as), and practically tore Islam in two, allowing Mu'awiya to usurp a damaged and broken caliphate, since Ali's forces were weakened on her account.

* Sajjah, the False Prophetess, also seize political power in Najd (central Arabia) during Abu Bakr's reign, her reign of murder and apostasy resulted in the deaths of thousands of Muslims and the reaction of the forces under Abu Bakr, retaliating to fuel a conflict in which Malik Bin Nuweira, the Shias of Yemen, and many other god Muslims were caught in the crossfire and brutally murdered by Abu Bakr's general, Khalid bin Walid. Sajjah was the one that sparked this entire conflict.

* Look back at Hashepsut and Cleopatra of Egypt, these two women had absolute power, they both forced everyone to worship them as goddesses, but they went even further than most male pharaohs by erasing any record of their rivals' existence and castrating large numbers of their own staff without any apparent reason. What on earth would a woman need eunuchs for? She certainly has no need for female concubines!!!! They also engaged in disastrous military campaigns which left their country weakened and broke. In the case of Cleopatra, she lost everything and the Romans gobbled up her kingdom outright!

*Tomyris, the pagan queen of the Massetagae tribe, who killed Cyrus the Great and bathed in his blood. She killed thousands and then died having caused nothing but destruction and destabilization, having left no monuments, no legacy, no culture, no society, and no permanent place for her own people to live.

And there are also infamous women rulers of the Christian world, evil to the bone, one and all...

-Bloody Mary, who burnt non-Catholics at the stake

-Elizabeth I, who killed ten times more people than Bloody Mary

-Countess Bathory, the "lady of blood" who killed young girls and drank their blood and ate their flesh

-Catherine "the great", under whose rule the oppression of the Serfs grew exponentially worse - not to mention enslaving Muslim Kazaks in Russia and instigating several wars with Iran

-Juana 'the Mad" of Castille, a medieval Spanish queen whose penchant for torture and necrophilia was legendary

-Catherine de Medicis, a daughter of Italian nobility who rose by marriages and assassinations, to become Queen of France and the mother of the kings of THREE European nations. She hunted non-Catholics mercilessly and upon her death all her realms were PLUNGED INTO RELIGIOUS CIVIL WAR.

-Anne of England, the gluttonous queen whose reign saw sky-high inflation, loss of control of the money supply of England to foreign Jewish bankers, and rampant corruption in court.

-Queen Victoria - more than anyone else, she was responsible for the hypocritical puritanization of 1800s England and its self-serving "white man's burden" excuse to conquer and exploit half of the world's population. The sun truly never sets on her reign of racist snobbery and colonial brutality, whose effects still reverberate throughout Africa and the Middle East to this day. Look at all their crimes, the rapes, plunders, genocides, forced conversions, subjugation of free people under the British yoke, yes, men were committing these crimes - but ALL OF IT under the orders of a woman! And of course, the queen "kept her hands clean" this way.

-Margaret Thatcher, Britain's "Iron Lady", whose pro-big business, anti-union policies led to skyrocketing poverty (in a first-world country, no less!), surging unemployment, political brinkmanship, corrupt business practices, rampant corporate bankruptcies and thieving CEO's, the closing and demolition of hundreds of factories, and economic woes that took 15 years for the country to recover from.

It's nevertheless true that power can corrupt almost anybody, man or woman, however when it's a woman in power the corruption is far more frequent percentage-wise, and often far worse, with few exceptions. Indeed, some of the most evil men in Islam's history (such as Abu Lahab, Abu Sufyan, and Yazid) were said to be largely under the influence of their wives and mothers. That's right - these vicious enemies of Islam may actually have been submissive wimps in their own homes. Small wonder then, that they felt an urge to take out their bitterness and frustration on innocent people. Furthermore, there does not seem to be even a single example of a female ruler who brought justice and improved her people's situation - while there HAVE been many righteous male rulers who did just that, along with all the bad ones. I'm just telling it like it is.

And do you still want to claim that the Qur'an is violating people's rights by preventing such disasters?

Edited by Shia Shahid
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