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gogiison2

The Term 'ghina'

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bismillah

imam al asr madad

salaam..

i'm wondering if anyone is aware of any ahadith defining what ghina is? because on the website below and under the heading of 'what is music' it says that in shia sheriat ghina is considered a sin. you can also see how they define it, looks like how some change the pitch in the throat like AAAaaaaaAAaaaaAAAaaaAaa as some may do in their reciting of the adhan. so, basically i am wondering if this definition of ghina is in ahadith or if it's the scholars' opinion on this issue since many say not all music is haraam? jazakAllah for your help.

http://www.ummah.net/khoei/wabil/music1.htm

Edited by gogiison2

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(salam)

last post on this thread is recently from Ali Khamenei office on ghina and it seems a rose and fall to make a rapture effect. from what i understand this would be a certain kind of singing not all singing is like that, as the way you shall see it explained.

"Ghinā' is the voice of the human being, which is produced in a rise and fall pattern to create the effect of rapture that is suitable for the gatherings of merry making and sin. It is ḥarām, to engage in this type of singing; as well as to listen to it."

http://www.shiachat....ic/page__st__50

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher

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(salam)

Can we refer this as "seductive voice" :unsure:

(salam)

not from the description above, it would have to rise and fall with effect of rapture, that reminds me of something similar to oprea, like AAAAAA aaaaaaa Up and down, not all singing or talking voice is that way, only a certian kind of up and down that needs the force to bring it up and the lowering to bring it down.

(wasalam)

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(salam)

'Ghina' is common Arabic simply means singing, it is a commonly used word. It doesn't have to be seductive or even good, it is simply general singing.

so ghina shouldn't be haraam unless accompanied by musical instruments, right?

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(salam)

Both ghina, instruments, and the mixture of the two have been made haraam in our ahadith.

okay, would you happen to have any references where the term ghina is used in our hadith. jazakAllah for your time.

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(salam)

Here's from al-Kafi, narrated by Muhammed al-Baqir (as).

12415 4) Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÇÈä ÃÈí ÚãíÑ¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÅÓãÇÚíá¡ Úä ÇÈä ãÓßÇä¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ãÓáã¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊå íÞæá: ÇáÛäÇÁ ããÇ æÚÏÇááå ÚÒ æÌá Úáíå ÇáäÇÑ æÊáÇ åÐå ÇáÂíÉ: " æãä ÇáäÇÓ ãä íÔÊÑí áåæ ÇáÍÏíË áíÖá Úä ÓÈíá Çááå ÈÛíÑ Úáã æíÊÎÐåÇ åÒæÇ ÇæáÆß áåã ÚÐÇÈ ãåíä " .

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Ibn Abi `Umayr from `Ali b. Isma`il from Ibn Miskan from Muhammad b. Muslim from Abu Ja`far (as). He said: I heard him saying: Singing is from what Allah, `azza wa jalla, has promised the Fire. And he recited this ayat “And some men there are who buy diverting talk to lead astray from the way of Allah without knowledge, and to take it in mockery; those -- there awaits them a humbling chastisement.”

Grading: hasan

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/forbidden-transactions/ghina-singing

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(salam)

Here's from al-Kafi, narrated by Muhammed al-Baqir (as).

12415 4) Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÇÈä ÃÈí ÚãíÑ¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÅÓãÇÚíá¡ Úä ÇÈä ãÓßÇä¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ãÓáã¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊå íÞæá: ÇáÛäÇÁ ããÇ æÚÏÇááå ÚÒ æÌá Úáíå ÇáäÇÑ æÊáÇ åÐå ÇáÂíÉ: " æãä ÇáäÇÓ ãä íÔÊÑí áåæ ÇáÍÏíË áíÖá Úä ÓÈíá Çááå ÈÛíÑ Úáã æíÊÎÐåÇ åÒæÇ ÇæáÆß áåã ÚÐÇÈ ãåíä " .

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Ibn Abi `Umayr from `Ali b. Isma`il from Ibn Miskan from Muhammad b. Muslim from Abu Ja`far (as). He said: I heard him saying: Singing is from what Allah, `azza wa jalla, has promised the Fire. And he recited this ayat “And some men there are who buy diverting talk to lead astray from the way of Allah without knowledge, and to take it in mockery; those -- there awaits them a humbling chastisement.”

Grading: hasan

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/forbidden-transactions/ghina-singing

brother, i'm sorry i keep bothering you, but my arabic is weak and the characters are pretty small, could you please highlight for me where it says ghina?

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brother, i'm sorry i keep bothering you, but my arabic is weak and the characters are pretty small, could you please highlight for me where it says ghina?

I tried making it bold but when I did that it would move it to another part of the text

Basically it's the first word after the :

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Guest A.aaa

Singing (al-ghinã’) is harãm: doing it, listening to it, or living of it. By “singing — al-ghinã’,” I mean an amusing statement expressed in the tunes that are suitable for those who provide entertainment and amusement. 

Sistani.org

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On 1/23/2010 at 8:53 PM, baradar_jackson said:

By this definition, a lot of nohas would qualify as ghina

Koveiti Poor for example always changes his pitch in such a manner

Actually, not necessarily.

Haram singing seems to be specifically about singing that distracts one from God.  
 

if one Sings about God and for God or if the singing helps one remember God it is a whole different story all together.  

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

Actually, not necessarily.

Haram singing seems to be specifically about singing that distracts one from God.  
 

if one Sings about God and for God or if the singing helps one remember God it is a whole different story all together.  

Not according to Shi'I fiqh. Ghina is forbidden, regardless of the content. 

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On 1/24/2010 at 2:53 AM, baradar_jackson said:

By this definition, a lot of nohas would qualify as ghina

Koveiti Poor for example always changes his pitch in such a manner

Most of them are ghina, especially what is commonly 'produced' these last 10-15 years. 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) protect us from such things. 

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

Not according to Shi'I fiqh. Ghina is forbidden, regardless of the content. 

Alhamdulilah, 

So was Ghina permissible at one point? I ask this because Da’ood (عليه السلام). Was known for having a beautiful voice. It is said that he will sing for the believers in Jannah. I believe he also played an instrument of some sort. 

And it is written in the 17th chapter: O Dawud! Listen to what I say and order Sulayman to make people understand that I will give the Earth as inheritance to Muhammad and his Ummah (followers) and they will be different from what you are. Their prayer will not be musical instruments and songs. So recite my Holiness more and more and weep profusely when you raise the song in My sanctification.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

And should we add Qur'an reading with the usage of Maqamat as ‘haram as well?

It is certainly questionable. The maqamat have nothing to do with Islam and actually originate from Arabian music. Personally I avoid it as a precaution. 

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3 hours ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Alhamdulilah, 

So was Ghina permissible at one point? I ask this because Da’ood (عليه السلام). Was known for having a beautiful voice. It is said that he will sing for the believers in Jannah. I believe he also played an instrument of some sort. 

And it is written in the 17th chapter: O Dawud! Listen to what I say and order Sulayman to make people understand that I will give the Earth as inheritance to Muhammad and his Ummah (followers) and they will be different from what you are. Their prayer will not be musical instruments and songs. So recite my Holiness more and more and weep profusely when you raise the song in My sanctification.

 

 

Jazakumallah brother. It is possible that it may have been permissible. As we know some things will become permissible in jannah which were forbidden on Earth. Similarly some things became impermissible as Islam was revealed even if they were permissible before. 

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Nasheeds are also a type of Ghina but allowed until contains praising & defending Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) same as Prophet Muhammad (pbu)said about Hassan b. Thabit

The Prophet's (s) prayer for Hassan

The Prophet (s) prayed for Hassan, اللهم ایده بروح القدس "O Lord! Make him approved by the Holy Spirit." It seems that the prayer was preconditioned since many scholars believe the Prophet (s) told him, "O Hassan, you will be blessed with the approval of the Holy Spirit, as long as you defend us." The prayer has been quoted in various ways. In one narration, the prayer says, "O Lord, support Hassan through the Holy Spirit, because of his support of Islam." Another narration states, إن اللّه یؤید حسّان بروح القدس ما نافح عن رسول اللّه "May God support Hassan through the Holy Spirit, so long as he supports God's Messenger (s)".

 

Importance of Hassan's Poems

Historical Events

Hassan's poems mention historical events, traditions of the Prophet (s), and the Holy Battles, making it an authentic source for Early Islamic history. His poem on Ghadir Khumm is the first Ghadiriyya (poems composed regarding the event of Ghadir Khumm) in Islamic history.

Defending the Prophet

In addition, Hassan's defense of the Noble Prophet (s) has made him the forerunner of political poets. In his praises of the Prophet (s), he used a new method to facilitate words and expressions, which was novel to Jahili literacy. Therefore, he is considered the founder of a new poetic structure.

Use of New Figures of Speech

Other than praises, pride, and satire, his poems consist of lamentation as well. Farrokh believes that since Hassan has used new figures of speech in praising the Prophet, he can be considered as the first figure of speech Poet (Badi'iyah Sara) in history.

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Hassan_b._Thabit

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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9 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Nasheeds are also a type of Ghina but allowed until contains praising & defending Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) same as Prophet Muhammad (pbu)said about Hassan b. Thabit

The Prophet's (s) prayer for Hassan

The Prophet (s) prayed for Hassan, اللهم ایده بروح القدس "O Lord! Make him approved by the Holy Spirit." It seems that the prayer was preconditioned since many scholars believe the Prophet (s) told him, "O Hassan, you will be blessed with the approval of the Holy Spirit, as long as you defend us." The prayer has been quoted in various ways. In one narration, the prayer says, "O Lord, support Hassan through the Holy Spirit, because of his support of Islam." Another narration states, إن اللّه یؤید حسّان بروح القدس ما نافح عن رسول اللّه "May God support Hassan through the Holy Spirit, so long as he supports God's Messenger (s)".

 

Importance of Hassan's Poems

Historical Events

Hassan's poems mention historical events, traditions of the Prophet (s), and the Holy Battles, making it an authentic source for Early Islamic history. His poem on Ghadir Khumm is the first Ghadiriyya (poems composed regarding the event of Ghadir Khumm) in Islamic history.

Defending the Prophet

In addition, Hassan's defense of the Noble Prophet (s) has made him the forerunner of political poets. In his praises of the Prophet (s), he used a new method to facilitate words and expressions, which was novel to Jahili literacy. Therefore, he is considered the founder of a new poetic structure.

Use of New Figures of Speech

Other than praises, pride, and satire, his poems consist of lamentation as well. Farrokh believes that since Hassan has used new figures of speech in praising the Prophet, he can be considered as the first figure of speech Poet (Badi'iyah Sara) in history.

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Hassan_b._Thabit

So apparently some ghina is allowed.

not just for the Prophet(S) and Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) but also for God!

Now here is the loop hole.  
 

Songs that remind one of God...

it can be anything!

so everyone let’s enjoy.

life is only about enjoying after all.

 

 

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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16 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

not just for the Prophet(S) and Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) but also for God!

Salam it's allowed for all of them but you don't read my post that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) said to Hassan that until he is reciting poem in favor of him &Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) specially about confirming Imam (عليه السلام) he has support from holy Spirit but he lose this support when didn't support Imam & didn't make allegiance with him after demise of Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام) anyway traditional Sunnis have many poems in form of Ghina about God & Prophet Muhammad (pbu)  that even sometimes Salafists & wahabists are using Ghina in their propaganda for first & second caliphs  although they are highly against using any type of music & reciting poems but they always they are blaming Shias & Sufis for using Ghina for praising Prophet Muhammad (pbu)  &Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام)

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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