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In the Name of God بسم الله

Abortion?

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Superman4ever

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Salaam Alaikum WR WB,

I was wondering if you guys could help me answer several questions. I did a search but couldn't find what I was looking for, but if there are any pertinent links please provide them and forgive the duplicate. What I am really interested is contact information for a Allamat or a Mujtihadat, like Zohreh Sefati...if anyone knows how I could get in contact with one that would be greatly appreciated!

The school of Ahlul Bayt teaches us that abortion can only be allowed under the concept of "Al-ahamm wa-l-muhimm", however, are there any legal precedences where this can fall under non-health emergencies. For instance, can this concept allow abortion after rape for fear of the mother's life from society and/or families retribution. Ayatollah Sistani says no, however, Ayatollah Fadhallah, states that if the mother fears retribution for an honor killing an abortion is allowable before the child's ensoulment.

What if the mother was gang-raped, rape under any condition is a heinous crime, but such an extreme violation would clearly leave the mother traumatized for life. What if this traumatic event led to her contemplating (and even attempting) suicide, would an abortion be allowed here as a precaution to save her life?

Say a woman in Iraq is raped and out of fear or shame doesn't say a word, therefore she doesn't go see a doctor, doesn't know she's pregnant, obviously no "morning after" pill is not administered, and eventually she starts showing and realizes that her family/community is not going to buy the "I was raped, but was too afraid to..." statement? What then?

Are there any traditions from the Holy Imams (as), with the source, that could help expound on this topic?

Qur'an 23:12-14 states that life within a mother's womb is through 5 stages:

1. Nutfah (Sperm and fertilized ovum)

2. 'Alaqah (blood like clot) that has implanted itself.

3. Mudhqah (lump of flesh)

4. Adthm (bone is formed)

5. Yaksu lahman (Bone is clothed with flesh)

From my understanding it is at the point of, what is known today as, implantation, as Imam Sajjad (as) described it Fastaqarrat fihi is the point where the ban of abortion is implemented. And that abortion today, as described by the ulema is, Ba'd istiqari n'-nutfah fi 'r-rahm (Aborting a nutfah (Ovum) after it settled within the womb). Is my understanding correct?

If you have hadiths from the Holy Imams (as), in particular Imam Sajjad (as), in regards to the women of Harra after the pillage of Medina by the forces of Yazid? From my understanding Imam didn't allow abortion upon the women of Harra because the child is innocent of the heinous act, and can still reach the highest echelons of life.

If anyone knows any Mujtihadat or Allamat whom I can talk to I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you so very much for your time, Insha'Allah this letter finds you all well and in peace.

Ammar :)

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salaam

as a female, i do find it curious that you would think a female scholar would be more in support of abortion than male scholars. abortion is extremely traumatic for women, since they are making the choice to kill their own child and they have to live with that for the rest of their life.

however, if a situation is absolutely unbearable, god is merciful

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Salam,

I know you asked for hadith or the opinion of the maraja (which you seem to already know), so I'll keep it short.

Among the little research I've done, the marja (with the exception of the ruling of Sayed Fadllalah, which you mentioned) allow abortion only before the soul has entered the fetus. It seems to me that this is because after this point the biological material becomes a person and is equivalent in Islamic law to the child after it's birth. So I don't find any "third category" in Islamic law that would allow different treatment of a child after the soul has entered the body but before the actual birth.

P.S.- I did look for specific hadith or other rulings which are different from the majority opinion but did not find any.

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You're looking at it the wrong way. The question is, what evidence is there that they could not?

(bismillah) (salam)

no its not, i didn't ask a question to answered with another.

(wasalam)

Edited by Haroon
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^ No, his point is that your question is completely wrong.

The question should be, "Are women NOT allowed to be scholars?, If so, provide me evidence." If something is not forbidden, it is considered halal.

It is like me saying "It is allowed to speak another language other than Arabic? If so provide me evidence". Yes that sounds ridiculous as does your question.

In any case, we have many female scholars throughout history, most notable, Syedda Fatima (sa), Syedda Zainab (sa), Syedda Masooma (sa), etc etc.

Hasan Sajjad

President

(bismillah) (salam)

again, i did not ask the question to be answered by another

fyi, if women in muslim history were scholars and it was permitted by any of the prophets or imams, peace be upon them, then you have answered my question on the other hand if it was not practiced during the time of the prophets or the caliphate of the imams and it is introduced into the religion it is an innovation.

and the females you have mentioned are from ahlul bayt - peace be upon them

so i will ask : are women (not ahlul bayt) permitted to be scholars / is there any examples in history? if so can you provide me with evidence/history.

If something is not forbidden, it is considered halal.

if something is not forbidden, yes it is halal - if something if innovated it is considered haram.

(wasalam)

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(bismillah) (salam)

again, i did not ask the question to be answered by another

fyi, if women in muslim history were scholars and it was permitted by any of the prophets or imams, peace be upon them, then you have answered my question on the other hand if it was not practiced during the time of the prophets or the caliphate of the imams and it is introduced into the religion it is an innovation.

and the females you have mentioned are from ahlul bayt - peace be upon them

so i will ask : are women (not ahlul bayt) permitted to be scholars / is there any examples in history? if so can you provide me with evidence/history.

if something is not forbidden, yes it is halal - if something if innovated it is considered haram.

(wasalam)

(salam)

in my opinion women should not be scholars, no offence to anyone but the job is for a man, just like working the jack hammer on road construction, it is not fit for a women. ;)

one other reason, how would that be if the women became a scholar and started leading prayer? with the men behind her? :squeez:

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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salaam

as a female, i do find it curious that you would think a female scholar would be more in support of abortion than male scholars. abortion is extremely traumatic for women, since they are making the choice to kill their own child and they have to live with that for the rest of their life.

however, if a situation is absolutely unbearable, god is merciful

Wa Alaikum as-Salaam WR WB,

Actually, I don't think that at all. However, I do think a woman's POV on the topic would be very interesting. I know what the other Marja' say; Imam Khomeini's fatwa states that abortion within the first 11-13 days is permissible (pre-implantation stage), but given that a woman would understand both the tangible and intangible effects of abortion...she can relate better to another woman than another man. For instance, a man can understand the affects the period cycle has on a woman; we understand and sympathize with the sensitivities that come with it, but ONLY another woman can actually really relate to difficulties here because we do not experience the physical/hormonal changes.

What I'm trying to do is tackle abortion and rape from the intangible/subjective side. The trauma and violation of her dignity, how do we heal this?

Abortion is most definitely traumatic for women, but is it more traumatic than the act of being raped? Is abortion of a violation as traumatic as abortion from a loving relationship (for whatever reason) or from an adulterous one? Do they equate? The latter two come from relationships where the woman allowed the man to her body, however, rape is a different scenario; does she see the child as her own?

I don't see the problem with women scholars for other women.

Edited by Superman4ever
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Abortion is most definitely traumatic for women, but is it more traumatic than the act of being raped? Is abortion of a violation as traumatic as abortion from a loving relationship (for whatever reason) or from an adulterous one? Do they equate? The latter two come from relationships where the woman allowed the man to her body, however, rape is a different scenario; does she see the child as her own?

I don't see the problem with women scholars for other women.

I think it is a trauma upon another trauma; certainly, it isn't going to make what happened any easier. A female is instinctively designed to protect her own child even if she hates the person who conceived it. Of course people sometimes, as you say, circumstances are unbearable, but that doesn't make this an easy solution.

I don't think most female scholars who have children would look at it as something preferable, although again I am sure most compassionate people are sympathetic to the hard decisions that people have to make sometimes.

Anyway this is a woman's POV lol although I am not a scholar at all

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In my opinion women should not be scholars, no offence to anyone but the job is for a man, just like working the jack hammer on road construction, it is not fit for a women.

Really !

are women permitted to be scholars? if so can you provide me with evidence.

A famous hadeeth of the Holy Prophet requires all believers to seek knowledge, irrespective of their gender.

Here is the Hadeeth :-

"Talaba Ilman Fareezatun Kullay Momineen wal Mominaat".

Translation :- "It is the duty of every believing man and woman to seek knowledge ".

Sorry I don't have the reference for the hadeeth.

Just as one example, Lady Fatima's maid, Lady Fizza, had more knowledge of the Quran than almost every member of this site. Clearly, she got the knowledge from the Holy Household. They did not deny her access to knowledge just because she was a woman or because she was a maid.

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Really !

A famous hadeeth of the Holy Prophet requires all believers to seek knowledge, irrespective of their gender.

Here is the Hadeeth :-

"Talaba Ilman Fareezatun Kullay Momineen wal Mominaat".

Translation :- "It is the duty of every believing man and woman to seek knowledge ".

Sorry I don't have the reference for the hadeeth.

Just as one example, Lady Fatima's maid, Lady Fizza, had more knowledge of the Quran than almost every member of this site. Clearly, she got the knowledge from the Holy Household. They did not deny her access to knowledge just because she was a woman or because she was a maid.

(salam)

to seek knowledge is not to become a scholar, fatima (may Allah bless her soul) was not at all a scholar but she was a very righteous woman, her husband was the imam not her. there is a big difference between knowing things and taking it as your duty to teach and learn jurist in depth and lead prayers, and give khutba, it is not for women, sorry but the reasons are numerous. watchful of ones own desires, it is enough to learn and seek out knowledge.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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I think it is a trauma upon another trauma; certainly, it isn't going to make what happened any easier. A female is instinctively designed to protect her own child even if she hates the person who conceived it. Of course people sometimes, as you say, circumstances are unbearable, but that doesn't make this an easy solution.

I don't think most female scholars who have children would look at it as something preferable, although again I am sure most compassionate people are sympathetic to the hard decisions that people have to make sometimes.

Anyway this is a woman's POV lol although I am not a scholar at all

I thank you for the insight, I will most definitely keep you in mind while I'm finishing my paper. :) I agree, I don't think that a female scholar would recommend it nor would think of it as preferred (I'm pretty sure that they are aligned with the majority of the Maraja on this). It certainly is not an easy solution, Allah forbid.

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so i will ask : are women (not ahlul bayt) permitted to be scholars / is there any examples in history? if so can you provide me with evidence/history.

I'll give you the best example in history of mankind :

All prophets of God were men. From Adam to Muhammad.

Ask yourself why.

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(salam)

to seek knowledge is not to become a scholar, fatima (may Allah bless her soul) was not at all a scholar but she was a very righteous woman, her husband was the imam not her. there is a big difference between knowing things and taking it as your duty to teach and learn jurist in depth and lead prayers, and give khutba, it is not for women, sorry but the reasons are numerous. watchful of ones own desires, it is enough to learn and seek out knowledge.

one good reason to have female scholars is because more than half of the world is female, and men and women do not always analyse things the same way.

as an example, this is a very male oriented analysis here. some women might, using the same sources as you, come to a different opinion (which, given the fact that you see the world from a male perspective, you might not understand at all or even consider a possibility).

fortunately, we have many well spoken females today who can express another opinion so that people may weigh these opinions and make the most educated decisions about their lives.

btw regarding leading prayers that is a separate issue and doesnt have to do with scholarship, also not all male ulama are good at giving khutbahs but they still are good teachers or writers

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I'll give you the best example in history of mankind :

All prophets of God were men. From Adam to Muhammad.

Ask yourself why.

This is a very, very simplistic and ignorant way of looking at it and baseless in Islam. According to Sayyed Radhwi (AKA Razwy), who wrote the essential "Khadijah tul Kubra", stated that the reason there are no women prophets is because motherhood, in its essence via its job description; the fact that a woman's womb creates, bears and sustains life, that she nurtures that child after birth to man/womanhood is prophethood. Allah didn't want to burden women further, not because they don't have the capacity or intellect to preach, teach or understand but through the shear exaltation of a woman's role in society, in the eyes of Allah, that EVERY WOMAN on earth has the potential to reach the state of prophethood.

When Rasulullah states that "Heaven is beneath the feet of Mothers." NOW, you understand why.

Jump to the 8 minute mark:

When it is stated "And they are from Fatimah: And her Father, her Husband and her Children (as)". How exalted is the status of women when the universe is created from the light of Imamate?

Edited by Superman4ever
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