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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ashura As A Happy Day For Some Sunnis?

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salam.gif Brothers and sisters,Even before I became Shiite and truly understand what Ashura represents for us Shia,I never knew why it was celebrated as a day of joy and happiness for Sunnis.All I knew then that Ashura was to give kids a lot of toys and families would cook the best dishes,and at night something strange happens,people build big fires and kids and even grown ups jump over the fire chanting and wishing each other happy Ashura.It happens this Muharram that I'm visiting my country(Sunni country)and I asked everyone I know about the meaning of Muharram and Ashura for them unfortunatly nobody knows,it's a religious holiday that's all they know.Most of those I told the tragedy of Imam Husseinas.gif seemed like they hear it for the first time,but didn't prevent them from celebrating as happy as ever,not even sharing a tear when they see me crying telling them the story of our Imamas.gif .Can any Sunni tell me the meaning of Ashura for the Sunnis?
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Ashura is celebrated as Sunnis as one of the most meritorious days of the year. According to certain hadith, the Prophet (pbuh) recommended the fast on this day because Allah (swt) saved the Jews on that day. Some Sunnis also acknowledge the sacrifice of Imam Husayn (as) and will attend events in honor of this.

I have not seen Ashura celebrated as an eid like you have seen.

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Ashura is celebrated as Sunnis as one of the most meritorious days of the year. According to certain hadith, the Prophet pbuh.gif recommended the fast on this day because Allah (swt) saved the Jews on that day. Some Sunnis also acknowledge the sacrifice of Imam Husayn as.gif and will attend events in honor of this.

I have not seen Ashura celebrated as an eid like you have seen.

salam.gif Brother ninjaslim,could you please give the hadith you are taking about regarding the fasting on Ashura and how authentic is it?I witnessed some Sunnis fasting on the 10th of Muharram without knowing really why they are doing so.Some people might think that I'm exagerating that those Sunnis take religion lightly not even wanting to know the reasons of their practices,for them religion is like tradition no more no less they do the same thing their parents did before and their parents before that. Dear brother I have no doubt in my mind about some Sunnis loving Imam Husseinas.gif I was a Sunni before and grew up loving Ahlu-Albeitas.gif with the difference of not knowing who the true Ahlu-Albeit were.

I hope to get an answer to why in some countries Ashura is celebrated as a happy Eid.

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it is not true that the prophet said that this was the day that the jews were saved.

(1) according to the hadith, when the prophet arrived from hijrat in medina he saw the jews fasting in commemoration of the freedom of bani israel. however the prophet did not do hijri in muharram, he did it in rabiul awwal, so how on earth could he have seen them fasting on ashura?

(2) does this mean that sunnis take their beliefs from the jews, then accuse shias of doing the same?

(3) why do sunnis only celebrate that particular day? why not any other auspicious events in the life of hazrat musa? his birth? his victory over the magicians? his miracles? hes recievership of the commandments? btw when ARE these dates according to sunnis?

(4) why dont sunnis celebrate any other major events in prophets lives? hazrat isa (pbuh)? hazrat dawud (pbuh) and so on? why the fascination with one event in one prophets life?

O my Allah this day is a day of rejoicing for the "Bani Umayyah", the herd of hardened criminals, the eternally damned and accursed group, a fact that had been made public by You and by Your Prophet (blessings of Allah be on him and on his children), who, in every place and at all occasions, drew attention of people to this truism.

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salam brothers. i hope this helps. its a long reply but please read carefully.

Sunnis say that fasting on the day Ashura (10th Muharram) is highly recommended. Sunnis say the evidence comes from Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari where it is written:

Hazrat Ibn Abbas reports that the Holy prophet (S) arrived in Medina and found the Jews fasting on the 10th Muharram. The holy prophet (S) asked the Jews why they were fasting. The Jews replied they were fasting because Moses (as) used to fast. Then the Holy Prophet (S) said he will also fast on this day and told Muslims that they should fast also.

Allah says in Quran that his prophet (S) does not speak from desire. He speaks only after Allah teaches him. But this Hadith says that it was not Allah, but it was the Jews who taught the holy prophet (S) about the fast of 10th of Muharram. It makes the Jews teachers of sharia to holy prophet (S). This fast is now part of Islam, and it was not given to the holy prophet (S) by Allah but by the Jews. The Jews "educated" the holy prophet (S). That is pretty embarrassing and shameful for the Muslim.

This Hadith also suggests that parts of Islam came from sources other than Allah. We say this Hadith is false. It makes the holy prophet (S) appear ignorant and willing to learn Islam from Jews. The same Jews who rejected him as a messenger of Allah. The same Jews who did not follow the true teachings of Moses (as). The same Jews who Allah has warned us about in the holy Quran.

After all this, how could the holy prophet (S) get religion from enemies of Islam? The holy prophet (S) warned Muslims not to follow the ways of hews and Christians. But he himself is taking sharia from them.

Importantly, when you like at the chain of narrators, of these Hadith about fasting on Ashura, they usually point out to four narrators. Ibn Abbas, Abu Hurairah, Mawiyah and Abu Musa Ashari. If you research these four narrators, you will notice that none of them were in Medina except for ibn Abbas but he was only 4 years old at the time. So if these narrators were not present at the event, then how can they have possibly narrated what happened?

This proves that this Hadith is so absurd and any reasonable person who has an open mind must reject this as a false Hadith.

hope this helps. jazakllah

Edited by goldenhawk786
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salam.gif brother Goldenhawk,most of us Shiites heard this false hadith and reject it completly for the same reasons you mentioned.The prophetpbuh.gif didn't and wouldn't take religion from jews or others,but received revelations from Allah(swt).Sunnis treat every Hadith in the Sahih books as authentic if not holy.I must be more direct in my question and ask if there is any Sunni from Morocco on SC to answer why do Moroccans celebrate Ashura as Eid?
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Importantly, when you like at the chain of narrators, of these Hadith about fasting on Ashura, they usually point out to four narrators. Ibn Abbas, Abu Hurairah, Mawiyah and Abu Musa Ashari. If you research these four narrators, you will notice that none of them were in Medina except for ibn Abbas but he was only 4 years old at the time. So if these narrators were not present at the event, then how can they have possibly narrated what happened?

This proves that this Hadith is so absurd and any reasonable person who has an open mind must reject this as a false Hadith.

See: http://www.*******.org/hadiths/fasting/fast-of-ashura

w/s

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salam.gif Brother Jondab,Sunnis will justify their fasting on Ashura by weak Ahadith,the problem is not in fasting itself but the reason for doing so(taking the idea of fasting on that day from the Jews).I was hopping from some Sunni brothers and sisters to explain the reasons why they celebrate the 10th of Muharram as a happy occasion.

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trust Jondob to twist things and lie (as usual).

guys in those hadith - bear in mind that "ashura" meant the tenth day of any month, it wasnt until kerbala that it was changed to mean the ashura of muharram. read the words of the hadiths with this in mind.

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trust Jondob to twist things and lie (as usual).

guys in those hadith - bear in mind that "ashura" meant the tenth day of any month, it wasnt until kerbala that it was changed to mean the ashura of muharram. read the words of the hadiths with this in mind.

salam.gif Brother mdm,I don't trust any Hadith that claims our prophetpbuh.gif copied religion from Jews.I already told brother Jondab that all Shiites with a sane mind reject that weak Hadith.Whoever wants to twist things can do so,but it doesn't mean that we have to accept anything we don't believe in.I started the topic hopping for a straight answer from our Sunni brothers and sisters,but it looks like they have no solid proof to back the fact of celebrating the 10th of Muharram as Eid.

PS:Happy Birthday brother mdm.wasalam.gif

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salam.gif Brothers and sisters,Even before I became Shiite and truly understand what Ashura represents for us Shia,I never knew why it was celebrated as a day of joy and happiness for Sunnis.All I knew then that Ashura was to give kids a lot of toys and families would cook the best dishes,and at night something strange happens,people build big fires and kids and even grown ups jump over the fire chanting and wishing each other happy Ashura.It happens this Muharram that I'm visiting my country(Sunni country)and I asked everyone I know about the meaning of Muharram and Ashura for them unfortunatly nobody knows,it's a religious holiday that's all they know.Most of those I told the tragedy of Imam Husseinas.gif seemed like they hear it for the first time,but didn't prevent them from celebrating as happy as ever,not even sharing a tear when they see me crying telling them the story of our Imamas.gif .Can any Sunni tell me the meaning of Ashura for the Sunnis?

Nonsense, my relatives from my mums side are all sunnis, and they all mourn and even make majalis for Imam Hussain.

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It was to the benefit of the subsequent illegitimate Muslim rulers to make sure that Ashura became a day of celebration and that the Muslim masses are oblivious to the martrydom of Hossein (a).

Even many Saudi funded Muslim student organizations, conferences, masjids, etc all conveniently have parties during the day of Ashura specifically. Never for any reason, and it always conveniently comes at that time, most likely posed under "Islamic New Year" celebrations.

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trust Jondob to twist things and lie (as usual).

guys in those hadith - bear in mind that "ashura" meant the tenth day of any month, it wasnt until kerbala that it was changed to mean the ashura of muharram. read the words of the hadiths with this in mind.

:huh:

Are you ok? Those ahadith are specifically about 10th of Muharram. See the name of chapter in Wasael al-Shia. http://rafed.net/books/hadith/wasael-10/v21.html#182

And those ahadith are from Imam al-Baqir and Jafar as-Sadiq (as), so obviously after the event of Karbala.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/fasting/fast-of-ashura

w/s

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Nonsense, my relatives from my mums side are all sunnis, and they all mourn and even make majalis for Imam Hussain.

salam.gif Why do you think it's nonsense?I'm visiting a Sunni country that celebrates Ashura as a Eid?What you may not know is that my entire family is Sunni not just my mom's side and I'm the only "Mustabshira"in the family.I've witnessed these celebrations for years before I left my country 23 years ago.I never claimed all Sunnis celebrate Ashura,I was just wondering the reason for these celebrations in this particular Country.You might tell me to ask the people who celebrate to give me an answer,I already did and what you may not believe is that those people don't know the real reason or any reason behind this so called "EID".In one of my posts on the topic I asked openly if there was any Moroccan Sunni on SC to answer my question.I have no doubt in my mind that some Sunnis mourn Imam Husseinas.gif so please I don't want anyone to misunderstand me or twist my words.wasalam.gif

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So the country being discussed here is Morrocco? Though, I think there is general consensus that most Sunni's do not "celebrate" the day like Eid... they just fast.

salam.gif sister wajiha,yes the country in question is Morocco.I wouldn't make such accusations if they weren't true,it's my place of birth and also both my parents are from there.May be in some other countries they just fast like you said but in Morocco it goes beyond fasting and not all of them do fast but they all buy toys for kids and wish each other "Happy Ashura".

wasalam.gif

Edited by Proud Shiite
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no sunni consider it as eid, not even close.

and some do fast, not all, not even most, its considered optional.

salam.gif brother zidane,In Morocco they consider Ashura like Eid not Eid but a happy occasion mostly for kids who get all kinds of toys.On the 10th of Muharram children go from street to street singing,and at night they build big fires and they jump over the flames.For the adults they make their best dishes,and some of them give their friends or neighbours dates,almonds,cookies etc.To me it looks like a EID,what do you think?

PS:Sorry all brothers and sisters if I don't respond right away,it's because I have some problems getting Internet connection all the timewasalam.gif

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salam.gif Why do you think it's nonsense?I'm visiting a Sunni country that celebrates Ashura as a Eid?What you may not know is that my entire family is Sunni not just my mom's side and I'm the only "Mustabshira"in the family.I've witnessed these celebrations for years before I left my country 23 years ago.I never claimed all Sunnis celebrate Ashura,I was just wondering the reason for these celebrations in this particular Country.You might tell me to ask the people who celebrate to give me an answer,I already did and what you may not believe is that those people don't know the real reason or any reason behind this so called "EID".In one of my posts on the topic I asked openly if there was any Moroccan Sunni on SC to answer my question.I have no doubt in my mind that some Sunnis mourn Imam Husseinas.gif so please I don't want anyone to misunderstand me or twist my words.wasalam.gif

There are also muslims who believe in reincarnation, marry over 50 wifes and think the longer your beard is the more knowledge you have. They are fortunately a small minority, why do they do these things?

Because they are uneducated, and are not pure in their iman, if they were pure they would have had some doubt about their religon early in their youth and endeavoured on it, rather than follow the norms of their societies. That being said, i apologise for misunderstanding you in any way or offending you, i just get very flamed when people use the words sunni and shia. Ofcourse, in this case, theres justification with using these terms that, as time goes by, are becoming more and more political and influenced by media. Without publicising the flaws of these minorities, they will become majorities. Thankyou brother for raising your concern. :)

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There are also muslims who believe in reincarnation, marry over 50 wifes and think the longer your beard is the more knowledge you have. They are fortunately a small minority, why do they do these things?

Because they are uneducated, and are not pure in their iman, if they were pure they would have had some doubt about their religon early in their youth and endeavoured on it, rather than follow the norms of their societies. That being said, i apologise for misunderstanding you in any way or offending you, i just get very flamed when people use the words sunni and shia. Ofcourse, in this case, theres justification with using these terms that, as time goes by, are becoming more and more political and influenced by media. Without publicising the flaws of these minorities, they will become majorities. Thankyou brother for raising your concern. smile.gif

salam.gif m.alg and all brothers and sisters.It is exactly this ignorance brother m.alg you're talking about that makes me wonder,why don't people quetion themselves about things they do and relate them to religion.My surprise was not just because of the celebration itself but it was because the people who celebrated didn't even know why they're doing so.

I don't think by using the words Sunnis or Shiites we are offending any sect,and whatever the media is doing or not doing doesn't change the fact that the two sects have their differences.WE can not say we're just Muslims,we have to belong to a school of thought. PS:It's sister

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It was to the benefit of the subsequent illegitimate Muslim rulers to make sure that Ashura became a day of celebration and that the Muslim masses are oblivious to the martrydom of Hossein (a).

Even many Saudi funded Muslim student organizations, conferences, masjids, etc all conveniently have parties during the day of Ashura specifically. Never for any reason, and it always conveniently comes at that time, most likely posed under "Islamic New Year" celebrations.

salam.gif Brother Mahdaviat,I find in your post some kind of an answer to my question,you said:"Never for any reason".Those oppressed people don't need to know why they do what those tyrant rulers order them,they just obey.It's not just with Ashura but it's with the religion in every aspect.

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salam.gif sister wajiha,yes the country in question is Morocco.I wouldn't make such accusations if they weren't true,it's my place of birth and also both my parents are from there.May be in some other countries they just fast like you said but in Morocco it goes beyond fasting and not all of them do fast but they all buy toys for kids and wish each other "Happy Ashura".

wasalam.gif

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:huh:

Are you ok? Those ahadith are specifically about 10th of Muharram. See the name of chapter in Wasael al-Shia. http://rafed.net/books/hadith/wasael-10/v21.html#182

And those ahadith are from Imam al-Baqir and Jafar as-Sadiq (as), so obviously after the event of Karbala.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/fasting/fast-of-ashura

w/s

There are also these hadiths: :)

http://www.alseraj.net/a-k/hadith/wasael-10/v21.html#183

There are also hadiths that say, when you are facing conflicting hadiths from the imams (as), to do the opposite of what the 'amma does.

Edited by avjar7
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There are also these hadiths: :)

http://www.alseraj.net/a-k/hadith/wasael-10/v21.html#183

There are also hadiths that say, when you are facing conflicting hadiths from the imams (as), to do the opposite of what the 'amma does.

yes but those ones are weak. This principle can maybe apply if they were both authentics and imams AS in taqya. Its okay to hate nasbis but not to change aima AS religion because of them.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234944204-fiqhi-hadiths/page__st__225__p__1809563entry1809563

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bn Katheer writes in al Bidayah wa al Nihaya, Volume 8 Page 1108 published by Nafees Academy Karachi:

"In contrast to the Shi'a, the Syrians would prepare nice foods, adorn themselves with special clothes, wear perfumes and treat the day of martyrdom as day of great happiness (Eid). A variety of foods were cooked to show their great happiness and pleasure. The purpose behind all this was to act different to the Shi'a.

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The above so called Hadith can easily be stated false and fake.

Nahaj-ul-balagha(compilation) :

Amir ul Momineen, Hazrat Ali(a.s) was asked to explain the saying of Messenger of Allah(SWT) that : Banish your old age(by Hair-dye) and do not acquire the resemblance to the JEWS

Amir ul Momineen, Hazrat Ali(a.s) Replied : The Prophet(PBUH&A) said this at a time when the religion was confined to a few, but now that its expense has widened and its firmly settled everyone is free in his actions.

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