Why Only 12 Infallible Imams?

[w.b.]

Salaam.

I am learning about Shia islam, and my question is in regards to only 12 imams being infallible. From what I've learned, Imams are there to guide the muslims of the time period. So why is it that there are only 12 imams? Like, i know that even now there are imams, but they are not infallible. So basically, why did Islam stop at only 12 imams being infallible, people that muslims could follow without question??

Thanks

[AbdullaQ]

(salam)

Why does a person live for only XX number of years?

Allah knows what we need, and how to can receive what we need best.

Peace.

[MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT]

Like, i know that even now there are imams, but they are not infallible.

There is a world of difference between the 12 Imams and the people you refer to as present imams.

[GODMAN ENZO]

Salaam.

I am learning about Shia islam, and my question is in regards to only 12 imams being infallible. From what I've learned, Imams are there to guide the muslims of the time period. So why is it that there are only 12 imams? Like, i know that even now there are imams, but they are not infallible. So basically, why did Islam stop at only 12 imams being infallible, people that muslims could follow without question??

Thanks

UR ASKING A QUESTION ABOUT MY IMAMS A DAY WILL COME U WILL HAVE NO TREATMENT FOR A PROBLEM THEN, U WILL BE TOLD TO DO A DASTAAR IN IMAM JAFFER A SADIQ TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OTHERWISE U WILL RUN PILLAR TO POST TO SOLVE BUT U WILL SUFFER, GIVE US SIX MONTHS UR PROBLEMS WILL START HOW DARE U TALK OF MY IMAMS

[w.b.]

UR ASKING A QUESTION ABOUT MY IMAMS A DAY WILL COME U WILL HAVE NO TREATMENT FOR A PROBLEM THEN, U WILL BE TOLD TO DO A DASTAAR IN IMAM JAFFER A SADIQ TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OTHERWISE U WILL RUN PILLAR TO POST TO SOLVE BUT U WILL SUFFER, GIVE US SIX MONTHS UR PROBLEMS WILL START HOW DARE U TALK OF MY IMAMS

Wow, I really wasn't expecting to be attacked by asking this question. My knowledge about Islam is limited. I am interested in learning. Asking questions is a part of learning. I would hope you could respect that.

However, I should mention that my question was in no way trying to offend anyone. I had a question and thought I should ask it to clarify any misrepresentations about Shia Islam.

I am sorry though if I did offend you or anyone else.

(salam)

Why does a person live for only XX number of years?

Allah knows what we need, and how to can receive what we need best.

Peace.

Thank you for responding. I was also thinking along the lines of your response, but was not sure if it was specified somewhere a reason as to why.

Edited January 11, 2010 by wajiha1029

[Basim Ali]

(salam),

There's no particular reason, disclosed to us, why they were not 13, or why not 11. If we know everything, have knowledge of everything, would there be any difference from between the One with the Absolute Knowledge, and us?

There have been things hidden from us, and many reasons behind things happening have also been hidden us, for the same reason.

"With Him are the Keys of the Ghayb; none knows them but He." (6:59)

The same question can be asked for there being 124,000 prophets. Why not 126,000? Why does a person dies at the age he does; why not a year before or after?

wa (salam),

Basim Ali Jafri

Edited January 11, 2010 by Basim Ali

[PeaceLoving]

HOW DARE U TALK OF MY IMAMS

Please don't be rude.

She is only trying to find out. That is all. No need to be rude.

[w.b.]

(salam),

There's no particular reason, disclosed to us, why they were not 13, or why not 11. If we know everything, have knowledge of everything, would there be any difference from between the One with the Absolute Knowledge, and us?

There have been things hidden from us, and many reasons behind things happening have also been hidden us, for the same reason.

"With Him are the Keys of the Ghayb; none knows them but He." (6:59)

The same question can be asked for there being 124,000 prophets. Why not 126,000? Why does a person dies at the age he does; why not a year before or after?

wa (salam),

Basim Ali Jafri

I actually just realized that two days ago, a question very similar to mine was posted:

I am still however a bit confused. Ok, so from my understanding of Shia Islam, it is said that prophets were there to provide us with the message of Allah. Imams however are those who lead the Muslims after the message from Allah has been relayed, hence are infallible.

If this understanding of mine is correct, then why is it that only 12 imams were needed to lead Muslims? Because when I first started learning about Shia Islam, I was told that, what kind of God would present the religion of Islam, and then leave the believers of this religion without any guidance, hence why there are Imams. Guidance was given however, in the form of the Quran, but the interpretation of the Quran can be very difficult because of the depth of the arabic language and how the Quran can only be fully understood with tafseer, which varies. Hence Imams were there to help guide Muslims, and not leave them hanging. This is what I was told.

So based on this, why were Muslims only guided with 12 imams? If Imams were provided to guide Muslims after no more messengers were to come, then why stop at 12?

I think this way of presenting my questions makes it more clear as to where I may be misunderstanding some information.

Thanks again for everyone's replies and help. Greatly appreciate it :)

Edited January 11, 2010 by wajiha1029

[Rohani]

Salaam.

I am learning about Shia islam, and my question is in regards to only 12 imams being infallible. From what I've learned, Imams are there to guide the muslims of the time period. So why is it that there are only 12 imams? Like, i know that even now there are imams, but they are not infallible. So basically, why did Islam stop at only 12 imams being infallible, people that muslims could follow without question??

Thanks

(salam)

Allah's will, he told Our prophet and father Ibrahim (as) (that you would find listed in the torah) That Isamel will be blessed from him shall be 12 chiefs and a grate nation. this is what Allah willed the same for bani israel they had 12 imams from the children of Haroun. haroun being the first.

(wasalam)

[AbdullaQ]

Imams however are those who lead the Muslims after the message from Allah has been relayed, hence are infallible.

I think you need some clarification, Inshallah I can help.

First, this link is a great source for anyone looking to learn more about Shia in English. Shia Encyclopedia

The Imams as we Shia look at them are not like the currently titled Imams. Imamah is a position appointed by whom Allah chooses. There can be multiple Prophets at one time, but only one of them would be their Imam. Prophet Ibrahim (a) was pronounced by Allah to be an Imam, what does that mean? It means he is in charge (among other things). Take Prophet Mousa and his brother Prophet Haroun, who was in charge? Take Prophet Zakhariya, Isa, and Yahya, 3 at one time, who was in charge?

The Quran talks about the position of Imamh in many verses, please refer to an explanation by a professional for exact details. The link above has some useful information. Here is a quote from the site about the Position of Imams:

Imam means a person who is appointed by God as a leader and as a guide (see

Quran 21:73 and 32:24) to whom obedience is due, and whom people should

follow. Messengers are Warners and Imams are Guides (13:7). Imams are the

Stars of Guidance (6:97).

Imam does not receive divine revelation about Sharia (divine law). He does

not receive any commands concerning new religous paractices, and so on.

However, he may be informed of the events about the past and future.

Another difference between Rasool and Nabi and Muhaddath (i.e., Imam)

is on how they communicate with the angels, and is given in Usul Kafi,

kitabul Hujjah usder verse 22:52:

Rasool sees and hears the angel in awakness and sleep. Nabi hears the angel

and sees him while asleep, but does not see him while awake though hears

the speech. Imam (muhaddith) is the one who hears the angel in awakness

while does not see him in awakness or sleep.

I suggest you should read more into this topic by following the link, then come back with more questions, and Inshallah we can help give you the sources you need to further your understanding about this topic.

If this understanding of mine is correct, then why is it that only 12 imams were needed to lead Muslims?

These 12 Imams were not all Imams at one time. Only ONE Imam at a time. First was Imam Ali, appointed by the Holy Prophet (pbuh) to lead the nation. The rest were also appointed by the holy Prophet of Allah, but their time had to come for them to take leadership.

So, Imam Ali gives succession of Imamh to his son Hassan, then Hassan to Hussain, then Hussain to his son Ali, then so on and so forth. The Final Imam is Imam Mahdi (May Allah hasten his reappearance). I will talk more in reply to your next quote.

So based on this, why were Muslims only guided with 12 imams? If Imams were provided to guide Muslims after no more messengers were to come, then why stop at 12?

Why stop at Imam Mahdy? Allah knows best, but I can draw a personal conclusion, but please note this is my personal opinion, and you should contact a professional regarding all these matters.

We the Shia believe Allah used his Imams to safe guard Islam from all tampering hands whom wished to sway to meanings of Allah's message to suit their needs. Each Imam played an integral part in guarding Islam. For an analysis of what each Imam did to safeguard Islam please refer to a book regarding this matter, I will only mention a few key points, but each Imam was integral to the safeguard of Islam.

So, Imam Hussain for example, using his martyrdom safeguarded many rights and obligations in Islam, Imam Ja'far Al Sadiq and his Father Mohammed al Baqir (known as the baqir of the sciences of religion), played an integral part in safeguarding Fiqh matters. This was a time of shift between the Ummayah and Abbas regimes, which allowed for some freedom for these Imams to teach people. Thus Many of the Hadiths we have today are thanks to this era and these two Imams. Then the rest of the Imams played their part in safeguarding the ummah.

Also, All the Imams strived to guide the nations into the Islam Allah wants established. But corruption was in the hearts of the people, and they did not choose wisely. Such is the case today, our rulers rule is for their interests. Islam is not the BASE on which we are governed today by ANY nation. Iran is the only exception to this rule. Not that they are perfect, but they are at least attempting an honest Islamic government.

Back onto what I was saying. After our time to correct ourselves was up, and we proved through 12 Imams that we are incapable of CHOOSING to enforce the rules of Allah (I mean 'we' as a Muslim nation), Allah fulfills his promise and takes this matter out of our hand. What am I talking about? The Holy Prophet (pbuh) warned us clearly that we will be lead by 12 Imams until the days of the end, and that if Allah chose to make that day today, the sun would not set until enough time passed for the Holy Prophet to pass away, and all the Imams to come to pass, and for Imam Mahdi to come and for Prophet Isa also to be brought down. Imam Mahdi, as is the promise of Allah, that he will come to fill the land with justice just as it had been filled with tyranny.

So, Just as the sons of Israel's last Prophet (or leader) was Isa (as), and was pulled up by Allah for later distribution, thus is also Imam Mahdi (as) pulled by Allah until his time, and the time of Isa (Salam to both of them) comes.

So, Thanks to the efforts of the 12 Imams, Islam is saved TODAY for us to learn how to be guided. This is why there are only 12 Imams in my opinion.

Please do ask if you have any questions.

Peace.

Edited January 12, 2010 by AbdullaQ

[janali]

Quran sura 5:12: GOD had taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we raised among them twelve patriarchs. And GOD said, "I am with you, so long as you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and believe in My messengers and respect them, and continue to lend GOD a loan of righteousness. I will then remit your sins, and admit you into gardens with flowing streams. Anyone who disbelieves after this, has indeed strayed off the right path."

Genesis 17:20 :

New International Version (©1984)

And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation

[Basim Ali]

(salam),

I actually just realized that two days ago, a question very similar to mine was posted:

I am still however a bit confused. Ok, so from my understanding of Shia Islam, it is said that prophets were there to provide us with the message of Allah. Imams however are those who lead the Muslims after the message from Allah has been relayed, hence are infallible.

If this understanding of mine is correct, then why is it that only 12 imams were needed to lead Muslims? Because when I first started learning about Shia Islam, I was told that, what kind of God would present the religion of Islam, and then leave the believers of this religion without any guidance, hence why there are Imams. Guidance was given however, in the form of the Quran, but the interpretation of the Quran can be very difficult because of the depth of the arabic language and how the Quran can only be fully understood with tafseer, which varies. Hence Imams were there to help guide Muslims, and not leave them hanging. This is what I was told.

So based on this, why were Muslims only guided with 12 imams? If Imams were provided to guide Muslims after no more messengers were to come, then why stop at 12?

I think this way of presenting my questions makes it more clear as to where I may be misunderstanding some information.

Thanks again for everyone's replies and help. Greatly appreciate it :)

Oh, I see what you're asking. I did misunderstand what you were asking.

But the answer still remains the same. Because Allahu alam. :) We could predict reasons, but we wouldn't have proof to back the reasons. For example, one reason might be, as a test, so that when we are told that the twelfth Imam (ajf) is in occultation, we believe that, and not say that it is impossible for a human to be in 'occultation'. Another could be testing how strictly we stick to the Sirat al-Mustaqeem, while we don't have an infallible Imam present (not in occultation) to guide us. But it's just guess-work, and what Allah does, in what proportion, at what time, should be none of our interest. We are alive, to worship him, and follow the right path, and not to ponder on meanings behind things He caused to happen.

I can counter your question by, asking you, that the messengers were also sent for the guidance of the people, so why stop at 124,000 messengers? It's because Allah knows best, what is best for us, and this world. He knows the consequence of there being one more prophet, and one less.

wa (salam),

Basim Ali Jafri

[w.b.]

(salam),

Oh, I see what you're asking. I did misunderstand what you were asking.

But the answer still remains the same. Because Allahu alam. :) We could predict reasons, but we wouldn't have proof to back the reasons. For example, one reason might be, as a test, so that when we are told that the twelfth Imam (ajf) is in occultation, we believe that, and not say that it is impossible for a human to be in 'occultation'. Another could be testing how strictly we stick to the Sirat al-Mustaqeem, while we don't have an infallible Imam present (not in occultation) to guide us. But it's just guess-work, and what Allah does, in what proportion, at what time, should be none of our interest. We are alive, to worship him, and follow the right path, and not to ponder on meanings behind things He caused to happen.

I can counter your question by, asking you, that the messengers were also sent for the guidance of the people, so why stop at 124,000 messengers? It's because Allah knows best, what is best for us, and this world. He knows the consequence of there being one more prophet, and one less.

wa (salam),

Basim Ali Jafri

Thank you very much for your response. I understand what you are saying.

Thanks again :)

[syedabatool]

(salam)

Lol! Even though you got your answer I would still like to make say something about this topic. Hope you dont mind.

12 Imams are those people who sell their nafs (desires) and buy Allah's will (as in Allah agrees to what they want). When a person sells something, like e.g. a knife, he will sell it to someone who he knows wont use it for a bad deed, like killing someone. And this is something extremely serious, Allah's will is something with unimaginable power, so he gives it to only those people who he trusts (the 14 Infallibles or possibly Bibi Zahra s.a.'s unborn child, Imam Mohsin a.s.). Allah knows everything and so He knows who can be so self-less and in love with Allah, as to lose themselves in His rememberence. Our Imams' had swollen feet because of praying all night, and they would fall unconcious in remembrance of Allah! Allah loves them and they love Allah!

It is not easy to guide people, to call them on Allah's path , the right path and it is not easy to sit on the Mimbar everyday and give lectures, or educate people or taking poison, and in our Imam Mahdi a.s. (ajf)'s case, it is not easy to watch people sin. It is not easy to solve poeples' problems while forgetting your own. Allah knew some people who absolutely loved Allah could do this, and He, the All-Knowing , knew who they were so He gave them the part that they DESERVED!!

Points taken from Ayatullah Muntazir Mahdi's majlis.

Hope this further helps you and hope you are not offenced.

May Allah help us walk on the righteous path showed by the Infallibles and may Allah hasten the reappearance of our Imam Mahdi a.s. (ajf)! Ameen!

[JimJam]

Like I said before, when this question was asked before. Why was the Prophet of Islam(saws) sent to Arabia and not Japan?

Why are their 99 names of Allah

Why are their 4 "righeous Khalifas?"

Its just destiny

Life is a test.

Ther is a Hadith of Imam Jafar SAdiq(as) in Al-KAfi and im gonna paste some of it.

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad and Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from al-Hassan ibn Mahbub from Hisham ibn Salim from Habib al-Sajistani who has said that Imam Jafar Sadiq(as) said that Allah told Adam (as) after his creation that;

"................I have created you and your descendents not because I ever need you or your descendents in anyway or form. I have created you and created them to test you and test them to see which ones among you do good deeds in the worldly life before your deaths. For this reason I have created the world and the life thereafter, life, death, obedience, disobedience, paradise and the fire. This is how I willed in My measure and plan................."

"....................It is all up to Me to allow all of My measures and plans to take form or change them as I wish to the time that I wish. I may change the sequel of the timing of my measures and plans and allow, that which comes first to come last and vice versa. I am Allah, and I execute whatever I will. I am not questioned for whatever I do but I question My creatures about their deeds”’”

So, its just Allah's will. Besides, if you want to know who the righteous Imams are then, look at their lives, look at their words and teachings. You will then see which Imams are true, the Agha Khans(?!) or the 12 Imams who were men of piety, knowledge, wisdom and sacrifice. Use your God-given reason

“Amir al-Mu’minin (Ali ibn abu Talib), once said from the pulpit, ‘No one among you can ever sense the taste of belief until he comes to know that whatever has happened right could not have happened wrong and whatever has happened wrong could not have happened right.’”

Edited January 13, 2010 by JimJam

[w.b.]

Seydabatool, thanks for the analogy :) it makes sense...

JimJam, thanks for your response as well. But just a question kind of off tangent...I've heard of the "Agha Khans" but I really don't know what people are referring to when they say this. Who are these people? (very very very briefly just so that I have an idea... I will look it up myself in detail when I come across it in context)

Thanks again

[AbdullaQ]

(salam)

Did you read my post? I am sorry if it was not of any help.

Peace.

[Rohani]

Seydabatool, thanks for the analogy :) it makes sense...

JimJam, thanks for your response as well. But just a question kind of off tangent...I've heard of the "Agha Khans" but I really don't know what people are referring to when they say this. Who are these people? (very very very briefly just so that I have an idea... I will look it up myself in detail when I come across it in context)

Thanks again

(salam)

Would you like to see a hadith? about Allah sending Jibrael with a scroll with 12 seals on it to be passed to each imam and each imam opens a seal and does what it says to do? if this is of interest to you i would type it out for you from Al Ghayba but it also proves that there is only 12 as Allah did not send a scroll with 12 seals or 5 seals or 3 seals but he did send one with 12 seals. Alhamdulillah

(wasalam)

[syedabatool]

theunknownprecher: could you please post it? I would like to read it.

wajiha1029: the Aga Khans are the people who after the 6th Imam, i.e. Imam Jaffer dont believe in Imam Musa but say that his other son, Hazrat Ismail,(who was a true muslim himself, and believed in Imam Musa) is the rightful Imam.

[Rohani]

theunknownprecher: could you please post it? I would like to read it.

wajiha1029: the Aga Khans are the people who after the 6th Imam, i.e. Imam Jaffer dont believe in Imam Musa but say that his other son, Hazrat Ismail,(who was a true muslim himself, and believed in Imam Musa) is the rightful Imam.

(salam)

sure and insha Allah. give me alittle time insha Allah i will do it today and pick one from Al Ghayba insha Allah

(wasalam)

Edited January 14, 2010 by theunknownpreacher

[JimJam]

(salam)

Lol! Even though you got your answer I would still like to make say something about this topic. Hope you dont mind.

12 Imams are those people who sell their nafs (desires) and buy Allah's will (as in Allah agrees to what they want). When a person sells something, like e.g. a knife, he will sell it to someone who he knows wont use it for a bad deed, like killing someone. And this is something extremely serious, Allah's will is something with unimaginable power, so he gives it to only those people who he trusts (the 14 Infallibles or possibly Bibi Zahra s.a.'s unborn child, Imam Mohsin a.s.). Allah knows everything and so He knows who can be so self-less and in love with Allah, as to lose themselves in His rememberence. Our Imams' had swollen feet because of praying all night, and they would fall unconcious in remembrance of Allah! Allah loves them and they love Allah!

It is not easy to guide people, to call them on Allah's path , the right path and it is not easy to sit on the Mimbar everyday and give lectures, or educate people or taking poison, and in our Imam Mahdi a.s. (ajf)'s case, it is not easy to watch people sin. It is not easy to solve poeples' problems while forgetting your own. Allah knew some people who absolutely loved Allah could do this, and He, the All-Knowing , knew who they were so He gave them the part that they DESERVED!!

Points taken from Ayatullah Muntazir Mahdi's majlis.

Hope this further helps you and hope you are not offenced.

May Allah help us walk on the righteous path showed by the Infallibles and may Allah hasten the reappearance of our Imam Mahdi a.s. (ajf)! Ameen!

I've always thought of our Imams as people who surrendered their will to Allah and gave themselves fully to his service in order to gain his pleasure, because they knew the reality of our worldly existence i.e its just a test.

Imam Ali(as) said;

This world is not a permanent place, it is a passage, a road on which you are passing. There are two kinds of people here: One is the kind of those who have sold their souls for eternal damnation, the other is of those who have purchased their souls and freed them from damnation.

When somebody asked Imam Ali as to how he was getting on, he replied: "What do you want to know about a person whose life is leading him towards ultimate death, whose health is the first stage towards illness and whom society has forced out of his retreat".

I've heard of the "Agha Khans" but I really don't know what people are referring to when they say this. Who are these people? (very very very briefly just so that I have an idea... I will look it up myself in detail when I come across it in context)

Here read the Wikipedia article on the Agha Khans, they are the Imams of the Nizari branch of Ismailism, which are a Shia sect (deviants in our view, but it is not right to be too judgmental, i think)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aga_Khan

[w.b.]

AbdullahQ - Yes I did read your post. It helped a lot! Thank you very much :)

The Unknown Preacher - I would also like to read the hadith. And could you also indicate where this hadith comes from (ie. the book) Thank you.

[Rohani]

(salam)

okay, i have them. but i saw something that i would like to clear up before posting them

for those who have read Kitab-i Al ghayba in this hadith the imam says not to narrate it from him, this perhaps because of taqiyya. but i would like to know if it is alright in our days to narrate these or should i message them to these two privately? as this is consider something only for the shia? or is it even permissible to narrate this until someone is fully a shia-e ahlul bayt?

(wasalam)

Edited January 18, 2010 by theunknownpreacher

[syedabatool]

I dont have 50 posts yet so you can't Pm me. But I really want to read it. Ask wajiha1029, she started the topic.

[w.b.]

I dont have 50 posts yet so you can't Pm me. But I really want to read it. Ask wajiha1029, she started the topic.

I would really like to read it also. I dont have 50 posts either :(

[Rohani]

(salam)

i will be leaving off staying on shiachat for a week or aprox. so if you two want you can comment on my profile your email addresses or perhaps i can post them here when i return. it is up to you both. what ever you feel comfortable with doing. insha Allah though either way you will both get to see these shortly.

and wajiha1029 are you shia yet? or you are? or you interested in coming into it?

(wasalam)

[w.b.]

(salam)

i will be leaving off staying on shiachat for a week or aprox. so if you two want you can comment on my profile your email addresses or perhaps i can post them here when i return. it is up to you both. what ever you feel comfortable with doing. insha Allah though either way you will both get to see these shortly.

and wajiha1029 are you shia yet? or you are? or you interested in coming into it?

(wasalam)

I can post my email on your proflie. Though, if you post it on here, others may benefit from it as well.

and as for my religion, I'm actually not sure what I am. I was born and raised Sunni, but was introduced to Shia Islam by a friend. For a time period, I tried to follow as much of Shia Islam as I could, thinking that I had converted, but then realized I had too many unanswered questions to really truly believe in Shia Islam. So I decided I need to study more, and that is what I am doing. Basically, at the moment I consider myself Muslim, but not quite sure about the details yet. That part is a working progress :)

[haideriam]

(bismillah)

(salam)

there is a hadith of the holy prophet (pbuh) with regards to 12

(wasalam)

[JimJam]

Look in the Quran. Verse 12 of Surah Maaida

وَلَقَدْ أَخَذَ اللّهُ مِيثَاقَ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ وَبَعَثْنَا مِنهُمُ اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ نَقِيبًا وَقَالَ اللّهُ إِنِّي مَعَكُمْ لَئِنْ أَقَمْتُمُ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَيْتُمُ الزَّكَاةَ وَآمَنتُم بِرُسُلِي وَعَزَّرْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَقْرَضْتُمُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا لَّأُكَفِّرَنَّ عَنكُمْ سَيِّئَاتِكُمْ وَلأُدْخِلَنَّكُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الأَنْهَارُ فَمَن كَفَرَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ مِنكُمْ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ سَوَاء السَّبِيلِ {12}

[shakir 5:12] And certainly Allah made a covenant with the children of Israel, and We raised up among them twelve chieftains; and Allah said: Surely I am with you; if you keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and believe in My messengers and assist them and offer to Allah a goodly gift, I will most certainly cover your evil deeds, and I will most certainly cause you to enter into gardens beneath which rivers flow, but whoever disbelieves from among you after that, he indeed shall lose the right way.

[Yusufali 5:12] Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my messengers, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude."

[Pickthal 5:12] Allah made a covenant of old with the Children of Israel and We raised among them twelve chieftains, and Allah said: Lo! I am with you. If ye establish worship and pay the poor-due, and believe in My messengers and support them, and lend unto Allah a kindly loan, surely I shall remit your sins, and surely I shall bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow. Whoso among you disbelieveth after this will go astray from a plain road.

According to Pooya's commentry;

For the covenant taken from the Jews refer to Deut 26: 16 and 17 mentioned in the commentary of al Baqarah: 40; and for the goodly loan, refer to the commentary of al Baqarah : 245; and for the twelve leaders, refer to Numbers 1: 1 to 15; and 13: 3 to 15. If righteousness (as defined in this verse and in al Baqarah: 177) is adopted and put in practice Allah absolves man of his sins, but whosoever deviates, after coming into the fold of the religion of Allah, shall go astray into the camp of Shaytan-a warning to those who had broken the covenant taken by the Holy Prophet at Ghadir Khum, and their followers till the day of resurrection.

See, the twelfth verse of this Surah shows that the Jews during their time as the people of the correct religion of Allah also had what appear to be Twelve Imams.

Edited January 28, 2010 by JimJam

[Rohani]

(salam)

anyone know of a good free image hosting site that i can upload large files to if so i will share these three pages from al ghayba?

(wasalam)

[shoelace]

wajiha u put on a valid point,one of shia sect (dawoodi bohra) ismailis, belives imamat never stopped,imam continued one after another and will continue till the day of qayamah,present imam is in occulation,that doesnt mean imammat stopped,he still have messenger world wide to spread is message to world.

one of the present messenger known to world is syednaa muhammed burhanuddin and he is 98 years old recently he built(renovated) zarih of imam Ali and Imam Hussain.

[Rohani]

I can post my email on your proflie. Though, if you post it on here, others may benefit from it as well.

and as for my religion, I'm actually not sure what I am. I was born and raised Sunni, but was introduced to Shia Islam by a friend. For a time period, I tried to follow as much of Shia Islam as I could, thinking that I had converted, but then realized I had too many unanswered questions to really truly believe in Shia Islam. So I decided I need to study more, and that is what I am doing. Basically, at the moment I consider myself Muslim, but not quite sure about the details yet. That part is a working progress :)

(salam)

check your email sister. jazaka Allah

(wasalam)

[w.b.]

wajiha u put on a valid point,one of shia sect (dawoodi bohra) ismailis, belives imamat never stopped,imam continued one after another and will continue till the day of qayamah,present imam is in occulation,that doesnt mean imammat stopped,he still have messenger world wide to spread is message to world.

one of the present messenger known to world is syednaa muhammed burhanuddin and he is 98 years old recently he built(renovated) zarih of imam Ali and Imam Hussain.

So do the ismailis believe that the present imams they follow are infalliable?

[Ali Askari]

So do the ismailis believe that the present imams they follow are infalliable?

Salam aleikum

The Proplem whit the question is that 12 is defined number, but how can we know why it is 12 imams (as)? What would be the right way to anwer to this question. Twelve months in year is full circle, there was twelve tribes in jewish community. What is the mustery of number 12. I dont know, and its hard to know how to even sovle thise numerical mysteries. Rather we find similarities whit things and events. When it comes to the truthfullness of 12 imams (as) it has been mentioned in early scriptures such as Torah Genesis 17:20, and numerious hadiths of Prophet Muhammed (SAAS). It is general knowledge of generations that Ismale (as) will have heritance of 12 prince´s or 12 khalifa, and that is mentioned in Quran whit mysterious aya that Abraham (as) has asked his imaamat for his sons, and Allah said it will not be given to unjust. We know, that Imams are just.

The idea is from Prophet (SAAS) but it has been know generations before that some openly, some secretly. You can gladly look Bible Genesis 17:20, or learn more about hadiths from different sources, and get into details.

Ensa Allahu Taala.

SAlam aleikum

If I may ask, what is the main issue that cause you having doupts or confusion? Maybe I can help you open it in a logical way. Ensa Allah.

[Kazim Malik]

wajiha u put on a valid point,one of shia sect (dawoodi bohra) ismailis, belives imamat never stopped,imam continued one after another and will continue till the day of qayamah,present imam is in occulation,that doesnt mean imammat stopped,he still have messenger world wide to spread is message to world.

Dawoodi bohras and Ismilis are different in a way that Bohras have 21 or 22 Imams. Their last Imam, known as Imam - Almansoor has adopted occultation. Now they have PEER SAHAB who is acting as a deputy to Imam Almansoor.

Ismailis have a very dangerous faith (sorry to say). They beleive that what ever their HAZIR IMAM do is religion as religion has to follow Imam and Imam need not to follow religion.

Coming to the main subject:

Islam was not introduced by Holiest of the prophets sAaww. Islam was the religion of Adam a.s and all the divine prophets. So, its the same rule for all Rasools, all Holy Rasools had 12 Ausia a.s. so The Last Holy Rasool sAaww also had 12 deputies whom sAaww labelled as AAIMMA sua aj. Almaida-12 has been quoted repeatedly.

Wajiha 1029, Its always good to be firm on your faith. If not a secret, will you please like to share the points which are unsolved about Shia ism?

Do you know Urdu? If yes, I hav some important materials in Urdu for people like you.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Kazim Malik