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Is Disbelieving In Mutah Kufr?

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Salam brother and sisters,

A friend of mine who is very liberal says that Mutah is haram (keep in mind he is a 12er). Now, regardless of my view on mutah, isn't this kufr? Clearly Allah made it halal in the Quran. Thus, saying it is haram is going against the Quran!

Now, I think he will come to his senses if you guys could provide me with what our scholars say on this. From what I understand, while few might disapprove of practicing mutah in a certain way, non will say it is haram... Also, If any talk about the kufr in teh quran point it would be much appreciated.

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Salam brother and sisters,

A friend of mine who is very liberal says that Mutah is haram (keep in mind he is a 12er). Now, regardless of my view on mutah, isn't this kufr? Clearly Allah made it halal in the Quran. Thus, saying it is haram is going against the Quran!

Now, I think he will come to his senses if you guys could provide me with what our scholars say on this. From what I understand, while few might disapprove of practicing mutah in a certain way, non will say it is haram... Also, If any talk about the kufr in teh quran point it would be much appreciated.

I never had a problem with Muta (maybe cause of my own desires?) but I've come to the conclusion it's haram due to verses of Quran recently.

wa salam

Edited by Awakened

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@ Awakened... could you please cite verses in the Quran that says Mut'ah is haram? As far as I know, the Quran never discussed Mut'ah.

I forget which but it's two words, "musafihan" or taking them as "ekhthan" both being forbidden.

The first meant going to a women simply for lust (not a relationship, just sex/pleasure).

the 2nd is a Girlfriend relationship, having a women secret friend, not official marriage thing.

Muta is basically either of these two, but with giving money at the end and waiting period and contract that women will be just u during this time. It really doesn't change either of these definitions from applying to Muta.

That also with a verse saying only Azwaj and malakat aymanhim are allowed and "wife" is quite different then a Muta person, and I don't buy the explanation that malakat aymanihim can be including Muta, it would have clarified the third exception.

Also, there is a verse that says for those whom can't afford Nikah to abstain till God enriches them out of his grace. (suratal noor).

Also the verses on how it suggests to marry Slaves if can't accord to marry others and says it's best to wait. So there goes the "what about for poor?" thing.

If any Shia can show me how Muta is not of either of those two definitions "musafeheen" or "ekhthan", they are welcome to, and I am willing to change my mind as well if they can give me linguistic reasons about aswaj and malakat aymanihim and explain the waiting thing of two verses.... then I will say I don't know if it's haram by Quran.

The Muta verse can be seen referring to the 2nd mahr, and all Muslims believe in the 2nd mahr ne how, so why would God put this law in this way that it can be seen in another way when he could said it clearly, this is another point, I for a some time thought it can only be referring to Muta and did a thread to prove this.

And it's not like I don't want to do Muta or ever had a problem with it, this was not the motive why I concluded so, in fact, I as any normal guy would, loved Muta as part of their Deen but ofcourse if you get daughters it might be diff, ask about your sisters it might be diff, but I was not thinking like that, so loved it but when I realized it's haram then it's haram. It was defined as Zina, then it is.

No arguing, no history this or that, I remember an Akhbari person going all out against it, he hated his for what it was, but I liked Muta and would not mind at all if someone can show my reasoning flawed.

wa salam

Edited by Awakened

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Before this topic turns into a debate, recreate this your post in shia/sunni debates section, and not here. I want answers to my questions and not a debate.

Jazzak Allah khair

we are showing ya it's not clear in Quran that it is (and I'm showing very well seems it's not allowed) and your asking if it's "Kufr", I think it's not off-topic because your premise was that it is in Quran.

Many things are in Quran, in fact, everything is in Quran, so even if Muta was in Quran, how can a non-clear thing be binding to the extent that it is kufr to not accept it?

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If you don't hold Shi'i views, maybe you shouldn't answer Shi'i questions? You don't see me roaming around sunni forums and answering their questions. Again, there is a Shia/Sunni debate section. This isn't the place for it.

Jazak Allah Khair.

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If you don't hold Shi'i views, maybe you shouldn't answer Shi'i questions? You don't see me roaming around sunni forums and answering their questions. Again, there is a Shia/Sunni debate section. This isn't the place for it.

Jazak Allah Khair.

lol I don't mind being kicked out Shiism but dear friend I see Ahlebayt (as) in most Surahs I read in Quran, so don't mention Sunni forums and associate me with Sunnis.

Edited by Awakened

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(salam)

Grand Ayatollah Fadlallah says

The Sayyed does not agree with those who say that the Muta'a marriage is similar to other illegitimate sexual relationships, since legitimacy lies in the legal form that controls this relationship.

On the other hand, the Sayyed rejects any chaos in marriage whether permanent or Muta'a, since there are certain marriages that are not registered while others take advantage of the women's needs, knowing some marry women to trade with their bodies. Any marriage based on exploitation, that is using the woman as a means, is invalid.

now as for the post at hand this is all i could find from My marja you can read it here

http://english.bayyn...ws/05072007.htm

Insha Allah it helps,

Any rejection of Allah's words laws, and verses is a rejection of what he commanded thus a rejection of him. you can perhaps consider this Imam assadiq (as) said to a man once "here are some hadiths keep them secret and do not tell anyone they will kill you" thus telling him to practise taqiya in the opressed surroundings. and commanding him to obey Allah and his imam. this man went and told and spread these hadiths and got killed. imam assadiq said "I said if anyone spreads these they would be afflicted with iron and they would lose their religion" (sorry not exact wording) but in short this means by disobeying the commands you lost the religion and by not listening you get a punishment

(wasalam)

No. Because Mut'ah was not even mentioned in the Quran.

A straight answer is the best answer!

(salam)

Don't lie!

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher

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@ the unknown preacher

You accused me of lying... the fact is you are the liar until you show me the verse in the Quran that allows Mu'ah, liar!

(salam)

may i ask you three things?

1: Have you read Qu'ran in arabic and studied the words and derived meanings?

2: Have you studied hadith in depth?

3: what sect are you?

if you do not read this over and answer my questions do not reply me.

here is a link you should look over

http://www.shiachat....mutah-marriage/

and not to mention our prophet allowed this, it was allowed during the time of abu bakr and umar as well as sayyed fadlallah mentioned "There is a consensus among Muslims on the legality of the Muta'a marriage, which was applied at the time of Muhammad, Abu Bakr and part of the caliphate of Omar."

now then lets see what he says about others who practise this among other muslim sects

"

Similar forms of Marriage

The Sunni sect has a similar kind of marriage that serves the same gaol, the legal fulfilment of sexual desires. The only differences lie in the details.

In the Gulf and especially Saudi Arabia there is the "Missiar" marriage which is signed by two witnesses but it remains secret in view of the social and familial circumstances of the couple.

In Egypt it is called the "Urfi" marriage, and the wife should be either divorced or a widow, although virgin girls are also holding such marriages that enjoy sometimes the approval of the parents. The children born of such marriage are legitimate.

In the end, the Muta'a marriage remains an option in a world full of increasing temptation"

it seems you should stay out of this argument and stop following your own desires. since Allah allowed something and did not forbid it and his prophet allowed it and did not forbid it. it is wrong for you to say it is not here and it is not there when it has been mentioned both in qu'ran and hadith on both sides.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher

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1: Have you read Qu'ran in arabic and studied the words and derived meanings?

Yes.

2: Have you studied hadith in depth?

No.

3: what sect are you?

I belong to no sect. But I'm closest to Sunnis.

Now, I know that Mut'ah was allowed even in Sunni Hadith (even there's 1 Hadith in Bukhari and many in Muslim), but again, according to Sunni Hadith, this was later forbidden.

Now, regardless of my opinion of these Sunni Hadiths, my question was to show me the verse in Quran which allows Mut'ah. Show it to me! You accused me of lying, implying that such a verse does exist... and accused you back of lying plainly claiming that it does NOT exist... now to prove me a liar, you have to show me the verse which allows Mut'ah.

Edited by individualist

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Individualist, with all due respect, keep the arguing and debating of Shi'i concepts inside dialogue sections. The brothers in this thread and many others like it are just posing a Shi'ite question to other Shi'ites. We don't need to see your bombardment of threads that do not concern you; it's almost as if you're on these forums all day every day picking fights, without wanting to really understand al-Tashayyu'. We know what the Sunni interpretation on such issues already, we don't need you to shove them down our throats.

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Yes.

No.

I belong to no sect. But I'm closest to Sunnis.

Now, I know that Mut'ah was allowed even in Sunni Hadith (even there's 1 Hadith in Bukhari and many in Muslim), but again, according to Sunni Hadith, this was later forbidden.

Now, regardless of my opinion of these Sunni Hadiths, my question was to show me the verse in Quran which allows Mut'ah. Show it to me!

(salam)

Did i not tell you if you did not read what i posted not to reply me. click that link that i posted. and if you lean towards sunni do not post here telling or speaking on our matters sunni hadith is 98% fabricated by 12 umayyad imams. as example the sunni hadith says it (muta) was forbidden but it was not the case, as it was allowed during the time of abu bakr and during some of the time of umar thus meaning those sunni hadith are fabricated.

as for your not reading hadith in depth this is where you have a problem and i do not think you looked into the qu'ran as far as you claim. and as for your not being among any sect that is following your own desires there is a perfect white thread in the shia that is the thread of submission to Allah. maybe you see too many black threads surrounding it to pick it up? or your own desires are getting in the way of full submission to what Allah has commanded and what he has allowed his prophet to advise in his sunnah.

there are many verses like this one besides the one posted in the link i gave you in my previous post.

Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta Ala has said in his holy Qu'ran

"إِلَّا عَلَىٰ أَزْوَاجِهِمْ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ

Except from their wives or whom their right hands possess - for they are not blameworthy.

( سورة المعارج , Al-Maarij, Chapter #70, Verse #30)"

إِلَّا عَلَىٰ أَزْوَاجِهِمْ

Except Upon Spouse

أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ

Or Ma Own

let us see what the meaning of Ma is

مَا

[adj] some

[adv] what

[pron] which, who

and just before Allah mentions this verse and Allah is exalted and grate he said " And those who guard their private parts,"

therefore saying

"29 And those who guard their private parts,

30 Except in the case of their wives or those whom their right hands possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed, ( سورة المعارج , Al-Maarij, Chapter #70, Verse #29/30)"

Now then are you going to say Allah allows us to Have illegal sex with no contract (contract before Allah = muta) with those whom our right hands posses? or do you understand that such a thing is forbidden and only sex is allowed under a contract before Allah. so tell me if you can how Allah means wives or those whom you posses? if they where the same. Allah would not have mentioned them separate.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher

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Dear Qai'm,

I only askeda very simple question: show me the verse in the Quran where it says Mu'ah is Ok.

If you haven't noticed already.. I did NOT even say my own views regarding Mut'ah... the OP said it's in the Quran, I asked him to show me the verse, then Mr. preacher claimed the same thing and accused me of lying... I again asked him to show me the verse.. I never said what I think of Mut'ah because it's, as you say, irrelevant... the Question is:

Since Mut'ah is approved in Quran, Is disbelieving in Mu'ah Kufr?

Ans: No. Why? Because it' not mentioned in the Quran.

Why is it so difficult for you to see what is actually being argued? I did not say a word regarding Mut'ah. i was asking for the verse that supposedly allows it... so far no verse!

@ Mr. preacher

saw the link and the verses.. laughable!

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(salam)

I'm not talking about this thread specifically, I am talking about you picking fights in literally every part of this forum. No one is interested in answering your posts, not because there is no answer to your challenge, but because no one wants to waste their time arguing with someone who will never change their mind. I do believe mut'a is in the Qur'an, but I value my time much more than to spend a half hour to present my proofs to you, knowing that you will never be convinced & give non satisfactory responses in just four minutes.

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(salam)

I'm not talking about this thread specifically, I am talking about you picking fights in literally every part of this forum. No one is interested in answering your posts, not because there is no answer to your challenge, but because no one wants to waste their time arguing with someone who will never change their mind. I do believe mut'a is in the Qur'an, but I value my time much more than to spend a half hour to present my proofs to you, knowing that you will never be convinced & give non satisfactory responses in just four minutes.

Then don't waste my time by addressing me again.

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Dear Qai'm,

I only askeda very simple question: show me the verse in the Quran where it says Mu'ah is Ok.

If you haven't noticed already.. I did NOT even say my own views regarding Mut'ah... the OP said it's in the Quran, I asked him to show me the verse, then Mr. preacher claimed the same thing and accused me of lying... I again asked him to show me the verse.. I never said what I think of Mut'ah because it's, as you say, irrelevant... the Question is:

Since Mut'ah is approved in Quran, Is disbelieving in Mu'ah Kufr?

Ans: No. Why? Because it' not mentioned in the Quran.

Why is it so difficult for you to see what is actually being argued? I did not say a word regarding Mut'ah. i was asking for the verse that supposedly allows it... so far no verse!

@ Mr. preacher

saw the link and the verses.. laughable!

(salam)

read the next verse i posted and if you laugh at that know your laughing at the signs and proofs of Allah and his qu'ran is a argument against the one who rejects. the argument is over and Allah has prevailed in this debate. Alhamdulillah

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher

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@ Marbles

no this thread is whether it's kufr to reject Mut'ah since it's in the Quran.. the answer again is no... because, it's not in the Quran.

You're not even a Muslim, right? Would it be too much if I asked what religion to you subscribe to?

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I'm laughing at your argument, not at the verses Mr. Preacher... just because the verb exists in the Quran, it doesn't mean it allows the doctorine of Mut'ah.

(salam)

"29 And those who guard their private parts,

30 Except in the case of their wives or those whom their right hands possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed , ( سورة المعارج , Al-Maarij, Chapter #70, Verse #29/30)"

the ones you posses is the ones you have under contract, muta.

The answer is clear it is rejection of Allah to reject muta. the above verse is clear so are many others in qu'ran. The argument is over... blind eyes will never see and deaf ears will never hear and stubborn limbs will never bow

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher

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@ awakened

doc·trine (dktrn)

n.

1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.

2. A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.

3. A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy.

4. Archaic Something taught; a teaching.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/doctrine

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A Muslim does not become a non-Muslim if he rejects the legality of temporary marriage. Only denial of the beliefs that bring you into Islam make you a non-Muslim. We all know what the six pillars of faith are. Rejecting any one of them takes one out of the fold of Islam or holding higher level beliefs that somehow negate any one of these takes one out of the fold of Islam. A deviant fiqh position does nothing to a person's status as a Muslim.

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A Muslim does not become a non-Muslim if he rejects the legality of temporary marriage. Only denial of the beliefs that bring you into Islam make you a non-Muslim. We all know what the six pillars of faith are. Rejecting any one of them takes one out of the fold of Islam or holding higher level beliefs that somehow negate any one of these takes one out of the fold of Islam. A deviant fiqh position does nothing to a person's status as a Muslim.

(salam)

Rejection of what Allah has said is rejection of islam and Allah even if Allah said cut this hair on your beard and you know it is there. if you reject it. it may land you in hell fire. to say one don't need to obey and accept what Allah says is mistaken. accepting and obeying is submission to Allah. disobeying and not accepting is submission to your own self. and there is he who takes his own desire as his god.

(wasalam)

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(salam)

Rejection of what Allah has said is rejection of islam and Allah even if Allah said cut this hair on your beard and you know it is there. if you reject it. it may land you in hell fire. to say one don't need to obey and accept what Allah says is mistaken. accepting and obeying is submission to Allah. disobeying and not accepting is submission to your own self. and there is he who takes his own desire as his god.

(wasalam)

You sound very much like a Wahhabi... "if you reject what *I* tell you God says, then you'll end up in Hell".

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Here's a verse that *perhaps* would clear the misunderstanding:

2:237

وَإِن طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ مِن قَبْلِ أَن تَمَسُّوهُنَّ وَقَدْ فَرَضْتُمْ لَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً فَنِصْفُ مَا فَرَضْتُمْ إَلاَّ أَن يَعْفُونَ أَوْ يَعْفُوَ الَّذِي بِيَدِهِ عُقْدَةُ النِّكَاحِ وَأَن تَعْفُواْ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَى وَلاَ تَنسَوُاْ الْفَضْلَ بَيْنَكُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ

The other verse was saying if the husband has already enjoyed his wife (touched) then he has to give her Mahr... in other words, he can't take anything of it.

Edited by individualist

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You sound very much like a Wahhabi... "if you reject what *I* tell you God says, then you'll end up in Hell".

(salam)

Interesting, you accuse people and defame them thus practicing something else forbidden by Allah and in his prophets sunnah.

Admonishing and a warning. if you fail to heed. you will meet the punishment, if i told you you would be fine and be exempt i would be telling a lie to you. perhaps you may fear Allah. enough to accept what he has commanded. even if you do not want to practice it, it is your choice but one must accept what he has said. and when they are warned that they are in rejection and yet continue to reject. woe be that man for the punishment of Allah is sever.

and i do not see how that verse applies at all. and you are not even touching the matter of the verse i posted above twice. is that because you cannot say anything about that?

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher

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Not believing in a muta does not make you a kafir but it is a sin.

also to Link/gangster you should ask god to forgive our imams (as) for allowing muta and the prophet (as) himself and while your at it for every single shia scholar.

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(salam)

Rejection of what Allah has said is rejection of islam and Allah even if Allah said cut this hair on your beard and you know it is there. if you reject it. it may land you in hell fire. to say one don't need to obey and accept what Allah says is mistaken. accepting and obeying is submission to Allah. disobeying and not accepting is submission to your own self. and there is he who takes his own desire as his god.

(wasalam)

How does this apply to a contested issues such as temporary marriage that is conditionally allowed, at best, even the most ardent supporters of this practice? Denial of something from Allah, as far as your daily lives is concerned, is a sin. It doesn't take you outside of Islam. For example, Allah has made hijab mandatory on all Muslims. A Muslim who doesn't observe hijab is committing sin, but that doesn't take him or her outside of the fold of Islam. Furthermore, A Muslim who denies the obligation of the hijab altogether is committing a sin by denying what Allah has ordained for mankind, but that doesn't put them out of of the fold of Islam. It makes you a deviant.

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(salam)

@individualist

And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise. nisa 24

shia point out that the word istamuta root is muta so everyone at the time knows it means muta

so i asked him why did Allah SWT tell the prophet mohammed saw to read when everyone knows that means read from paper.

the word means pleasure and so people are saying that there is no pleasure in a permanent marriage??

Edited by Mohammed-W

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