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In the Name of God بسم الله

Did Shia Mehdi Born!

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muhammad7787

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one guy Jondab_Azdi gave the below hadith..

We have ahadith with strong isnad proving that Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri ra.gif, the second deputy of Imam, met Imam al-Mahdi as.gif during minor occultation and this proves the birth of Imam al-Mahdi as.gif.

حدثنا محمد بن الحسن رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري قال: قلت لمحمد بن عثمان العمري رضي الله عنه: إني أسألك سؤال إبراهيم ربه جل جلاله حين قال له: " رب أرني كيف تحيي الموتى قال أو لم تؤمن قال بلى ولكن ليطمئن قلبي " (2) فأخبرني عن صاحب هذا الامر هل رأيته ؟ قال: نعم وله رقبة مثل ذي - وأشار بيده إلى عنقه

حدثنا محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري قال: سألت محمد بن عثمان العمري رضي الله عنه فقلت له: أرأيت صاحب هذا الامر ؟ فقال: نعم وآخر عهدي به عند بيت الله الحرام وهو يقول: " اللهم أنجز لي ما وعدتني

w/s

[url="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234972472-which-imams/"]http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234972472-which-imams/[/url]

But still question remain un-answered?!!Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri is truthfull or not & he is not ur imamas.gif ??

If you trust him, you don't trust an infallible person.

& i want the hadith of hasan askari ra.gif not of Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri.. that he has one child named as muhammad..

Bcoz Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri lived with hassan askari ra.gif then what is the meaning of giving the hadith of Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri not of hassan askarira.gif!!

Do u trust Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri more than hassan askarira.gif??

So still my question of sahih hadith remain un-answered?!!unsure.gif

Edited by inshaAllah
Kindly avoid the use of too many colours and bold text.
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one guy Jondab_Azdi gave the below hadith..

[url="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234972472-which-imams/"]http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234972472-which-imams/[/url]

But still question remain un-answered?!!Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri is truthfull or not & he is not ur imamas.gif ??

If you trust him, you don't trust an infallible person.

& i want the hadith of hasan askari ra.gif not of Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri.. that he has one child named as muhammad..

Bcoz Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri lived with hassan askari ra.gif then what is the meaning of giving the hadith of Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri not of hassan askarira.gif!!

Do u trust Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri more than hassan askarira.gif??

So still my question of sahih hadith remain un-answered?!!unsure.gif

Salams

We have so many sayings of our Imams regarding Imam Mahdi a.s. A saying of Imam Hassan Askari:

"It is incumbant on you to await the re-appearance of Mahdi. Rasul Allah has said that one of the best acts of my ummah is to await Mahdi. Our shias will continue to suffer until My son re-appears and fills this land with Justice....."

- Tafsir ul Islam pg 871 Urdu version Allama Farogh Qazmi

Fi-Amanillah

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one guy Jondab_Azdi gave the below hadith..

[url="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234972472-which-imams/"]http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234972472-which-imams/[/url]

But still question remain un-answered?!!Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri is truthfull or not & he is not ur imamas.gif ??

If you trust him, you don't trust an infallible person.

& i want the hadith of hasan askari ra.gif not of Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri.. that he has one child named as muhammad..

Bcoz Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri lived with hassan askari ra.gif then what is the meaning of giving the hadith of Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri not of hassan askarira.gif!!

Do u trust Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri more than hassan askarira.gif??

So still my question of sahih hadith remain un-answered?!!unsure.gif

What you are saying doesn't makes any sense. It seems you don't even have idea about the definition of sahih hadith for Imamiyah.

FYI, the narration is clearly sahih as per shi'a standards, all the narrators are reliable including Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri (ra). The trustworthiness of Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri was confirmed by Imam Hasan al-Askari (as) himself in another sahih hadith.

æÇáÑæÇíÇÊ Ýí ÌáÇáÊå æÚÙãÉ ãÞÇãå ãÊÖÇÝÑÉ ¡ ãäåÇ : ãÇ ÑæÇå Çáßáíäí ÈÓäÏ ÕÍíÍ ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÅÓÍÇÞ ÃÈí Úáí ¡ Ãäå ÓÃá ÃÈÇ ãÍãÏ ÇáÍÓä Èä Úáí ¡ ÝÞÇá : ãä ÃÚÇãá Ãæ Úãä ÂÎÐ ¡ æÞæá ãä ÃÞÈá ¿ ÝÞÇá Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã áå : ÇáÚãÑí(ÚËãÇä

ÇÈä ÓÚíÏ)æÇÈäå ËÞÊÇä ¡ ÝãÇ ÃÏíÇ Åáíß ÝÚäí íÄÏíÇä ¡(ÇáÍÏíË)

and

ÃÎÈÑäí ÃÈæ Úáí Ãäå ÓÃá ÇÈÇ ãÍãÏ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Úä ãËá Ðáß¡ ÝÞÇá áå: ÇáÚãÑí æÇÈäå ËÞÊÇä¡ ÝãÇ ÃÏíÇ Åáíß Úäí ÝÚäí íÄÏíÇä æãÇ ÞÇáÇ áß ÝÚäí íÞæáÇä¡ ÝÇÓãÚ áåãÇ æÃØÚãåÇ ÝÅäåãÇ ÇáËÞÊÇä ÇáãÃãæäÇä

Abu Ali has said, ‘I asked abu Muhammad [Hasan al-Askari] (as) a similar question and he said to him, ‘Al-‘Amri and his son are trustworthy people; whatever they deliver to you is from me, from me they deliver. Whatever they say to you, from me they say it. Listen to them and obey them; they are trustworthy and reliable people.

w/s

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notice the words in the post:

and he's not seen by anyone and he's not met by anyone (neither maraji3 nor anybody ) and whoever claims this is a liar and i dont care how big his name is

So im really confused that the one who posted now is an admin of shia forum and considers himself to be fairly knowledgable regarding shiism.

But you say someone met him.

Edited by ur wellwisher
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^ I don't have faith in your hadith system, your scholars, or your major religious texts.

I'd need to convert to Shiasm to be convinced. It is as simple as that.

Surprisingly you do not have faith in logical system in which hadiths are accepted or rejected on the basis of Quran, but you have faith in hadiths which are illogical and contradict the Quran.

[Edited - Please stick to the topic]

Edited by inshaAllah
Irrelevant discussion
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Surprisingly you do not have faith in logical system in which hadiths are accepted or rejected on the basis of Quran, but you have faith in hadiths which are illogical and contradict the Quran.

Is this not your Sahih hadith?

Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:

During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

Answer is already in hadith if u try to grasp it!!

He is talking about pre-islamic period,, i.e. what he think when he saw that incident..

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Akhi, Mohammed, be reasonable, I find Jondab's evidence to be sufficient. Be fair. His argument is convincing enough for Shias.

Ok i agree.. only bcoz u say.. but with the exception that he don't follow the massomin..

Actually i started this thread bcoz i want the sahih hadith of masoomin.. not of Muhammad b. Uthman al-Amri!!

I think they don't have the sahih hadith of masoomin about their 12th imam birth!! cry.gif

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Akhi, Mohammed, you should choose your battles, because you will end up wasting your time.

Don't argue against the unsincere and the ignorant. Look for serious discussions.

YES,, THEY NEVER WANT TO GIVE CLEAR ANSWER BCOZ THEY DON'T HAVE ANY HADITH OF MASOOMIN TO PROVE THIS POINT!!.. :wacko:

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^ I don't have faith in your hadith system, your scholars, or your major religious texts.

I'd need to convert to Shiasm to be convinced. It is as simple as that.

If you don't have faith in that, but get convinced of Ahlebayt (as) as a mystical infallible family and there being 12 Successors of Mohammad (saw), would that make you have faith in the hadith system, scholars, major religious texts? If so, why so after not having faith in it? If not, why not?

wa salam alaikom

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If you don't have faith in that, but get convinced of Ahlebayt (as) as a mystical infallible family and there being 12 Successors of Mohammad (saw), would that make you have faith in the hadith system, scholars, major religious texts? If so, why so after not having faith in it? If not, why not?

wa salam alaikom

I think u did red the full comment of lord botta!!

He said.. "" I find Jondab's evidence to be sufficient. Be fair. His argument is convincing enough for Shias. ""

But not for sunni's or usuli-shia's (who believe only in hadith by massomin..!!.). :unsure:

Edited by sunni007
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If you don't have faith in that, but get convinced of Ahlebayt (as) as a mystical infallible family and there being 12 Successors of Mohammad (saw), would that make you have faith in the hadith system, scholars, major religious texts? If so, why so after not having faith in it? If not, why not?

wa salam alaikom

(bismillah) (salam)

you did not address this to me but i want to tell you

their are practises of shia 'muta' *legalized zina* 'tawassul' *shirk'* 'taqiya of imam in illigetimate ruling state ' *helplessness* this is reckoned as major sins and people stay far away from muslims who do this and any book that recommends such practice.

I dont want to argue or offend but that is how it looks and if someone tries to explain that they accept everything but these types of things are grave sins you call them misguided and not taking authority etc etc.

I am only posting assuming you really want to know otherwise I seriously dont want to offend or argue.

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I just want to say one thing and finish this subject i supposed because it is just not getting us no where.

"If you call your self a Muslim, then you have clarified that you believe in Allah and his Messenger's (peace & blessings be upon all), and his book's. Then again if you call your self a Muslim then you 100% believe that the holy Quran is true book and that Allah has the power for everything".

Now that we have clearly all agreed with this part here come's some proof of Allah's power (Surely Allah doesn't have to prove his power to no one that he has created)

If we agree that the Quran is Allah's book, then we agree with every single bit of it, There for i want you to focus on "SURAH AL-KAHF" the story of cave friends which has been sleeping for 300-337 years by Allah's will, and then has been resurrected again by Allah's will.

Now there for i want to ask especially Sunni's. If you accept that this has actually happened by Allah's will, Then why does it sound dodgy when we as Shia's say that our Imam Mahdi (A.S) has born and has been hidden by Allah, and will re-come when Allah will's him to. By looking at the Ashab'I' Kahf do we have a right to even question Allah (Astafurullah). There for if you think this is a made up story by Shia's etc... then i will have a oppose look towards your belief in Allah and Islam. (Everything is easy for Allah). Some Sunni's make fun by saying that "Your Imam must of been rotten in cave by now ect (Astafurullah). That's why i am not gonna judge anyone's belief, Iman or Takwa. (I do not have a right anyway) so to my Shia brother's and sister's don't let these kinds of questions upset or anger you. You do not have to make an explanation to a person who does not believe himself anyway. There for sometimes these kind of question's are asked to us just to make the fun of us. don't fall to no one's games. And Allah knows the best. I just as a Shia (Alhamdulillah) just found the duty on me to remind and warn you brother's and sister's on the very neat & friendly condition.

Wa salaam

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I just want to say one thing and finish this subject i supposed because it is just not getting us no where.

"If you call your self a Muslim, then you have clarified that you believe in Allah and his Messenger's (peace & blessings be upon all), and his book's. Then again if you call your self a Muslim then you 100% believe that the holy Quran is true book and that Allah has the power for everything".

Now that we have clearly all agreed with this part here come's some proof of Allah's power (Surely Allah doesn't have to prove his power to no one that he has created)

If we agree that the Quran is Allah's book, then we agree with every single bit of it, There for i want you to focus on "SURAH AL-KAHF" the story of cave friends which has been sleeping for 300-337 years by Allah's will, and then has been resurrected again by Allah's will.

Now there for i want to ask especially Sunni's. If you accept that this has actually happened by Allah's will, Then why does it sound dodgy when we as Shia's say that our Imam Mahdi (A.S) has born and has been hidden by Allah, and will re-come when Allah will's him to. By looking at the Ashab'I' Kahf do we have a right to even question Allah (Astafurullah). There for if you think this is a made up story by Shia's etc... then i will have a oppose look towards your belief in Allah and Islam. (Everything is easy for Allah). Some Sunni's make fun by saying that "Your Imam must of been rotten in cave by now ect (Astafurullah). That's why i am not gonna judge anyone's belief, Iman or Takwa. (I do not have a right anyway) so to my Shia brother's and sister's don't let these kinds of questions upset or anger you. You do not have to make an explanation to a person who does not believe himself anyway. There for sometimes these kind of question's are asked to us just to make the fun of us. don't fall to no one's games. And Allah knows the best. I just as a Shia (Alhamdulillah) just found the duty on me to remind and warn you brother's and sister's on the very neat & friendly condition.

Wa salaam

Is this proof!! nuggeteer.gif

Edited by muhammad7787
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Is this proof!! nuggeteer.gif

What proof do u believe in, this was not a proof, it was just an example, if Allah has the power to make men sleep for 300 years or so, then how hard is it for Allah to make a man sleep 1000 etc years. What do u guys believe in anyway, When i speak to some Sunni's sometimes i feel like i am talking to the wall, but one difference is that wall is more sensible, at least it don't chat back. But for Sunni's i cannot say anything, Wa salaam.

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What proof do u believe in, this was not a proof, it was just an example, if Allah has the power to make men sleep for 300 years or so, then how hard is it for Allah to make a man sleep 1000 etc years. What do u guys believe in anyway, When i speak to some Sunni's sometimes i feel like i am talking to the wall, but one difference is that wall is more sensible, at least it don't chat back. But for Sunni's i cannot say anything, Wa salaam.

Wow!! Means Allah is going to send 13th imam bcoz 12th will continue sleep (as u try to compare the theory of isa (as) with S.A.W.pbuh.gif)!! Quran is the proof of isa (as) ,, where is the proof of ur imam in Quran!! or may be new book is coming with 13th imam to proof that 12th imam is sleeping!! post-45373-1209287012.gif

Before showing anyone sleeping,, 1st u have to prove that he was born & now sleeping.. devil.gif Plz give hadith of masoomin of sahih isnaad..

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Wow!! Means Allah is going to send 13th imam bcoz 12th will continue sleep (as u try to compare the theory of isa (as) with S.A.W.pbuh.gif)!! Quran is the proof of isa (as) ,, where is the proof of ur imam in Quran!! or may be new book is coming with 13th imam to proof that 12th imam is sleeping!! post-45373-1209287012.gif

Before showing anyone sleeping,, 1st u have to prove that he was born & now sleeping.. devil.gif Plz give hadith of masoomin of sahih isnaad..

If Allah has taken care of our Imam, then who knows if he is sleeping or waiting to be resurrected. Can you see beyond the other world, if you can let us know aswell. I haven't seen anyone compare Isa (A.S) with Muhammad (pbuh) as both were a prophet of Allah. Proof's we have is enough for us, if you want proof, instead of assaulting a shia for their belief's read and re-search more about them first. I know,i understand you Sunni's are 85% brain washed that cannot pick the right from wrong but please search more. Allah's proof is the Holy Quraan, Mohammad (pbuh) and the Ahlulbayt (A.S)... what other proof do u require.

Imam Ali bin Musa ar Ridha (A.S) asked the Jews " How come's you believe in Moses (A.S) but deny Jesus (A.S)". They have replied "If he was to do miracle's in our time we would of believed in him, but he didn't live in our time". Then Imam Ali bin Musa ar Ridha (A.S)asked " How come's its that you accept Moses's (A.S) miracle's, yet he wasn't living in your time aswell but then again still deny Jesus's (A.S) miracle's". At this point Jew's had to sit down with mouth shut as they knew they weren't making sense and that the Imam Ali bin Musa ar Ridha (A.S) was right with his every question's and word's.

Edited by Huseyin_Cetin_Turkish_Shia
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