Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Marbles

4 Protesters Killed

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Seems like the IRI has become exactly like the government they fought against.

Bismill..

Asalaamu Alaykum,

I'm usually not offended when people express their opinions about the Iranian government, but in this case I must say, this statement just turned on the "offended" switch for me. I am assuming your not Iranian; firstly because of your name (Pakistani I'm assuming...?) and secondly, because if you were Iranian, you would have know that pre-revolution Iran and post-revolution Iran are worlds apart. I am not going to even ask you to try to support your statement with comparisons, because I know they will either be random arguments or based on insignificant incidents. I'm not going to talk about this topic as much as I would like too, simply because I know you are probably not that familiar with Iranian history; hence the reason for your statement. All I wanted to mention, is that I believe you should be a bit more careful about what you say, because trust me, the people that fought the other government are not the people that are "fighting" this one. The people that fought the oppressing regime 30 years ago, had morals, deen, taghwa, eman, and when they said, "Ya Husayn!" they said it because of their love for the Imam (as) not because of the backward reasons they are today. The current government will become the "Iran it fought against," when it bans hijab and allows terrorist institution like the SAVAK to torture young men, for no reason other than them wanting to practice Islam. The Iran today is far from that Iran and iA the difference between the two will grow with every passing day.

^How does that justify opening fire on citizens for protesting?!

The Iranian commander has repeatedly said,, the police did not fire at any of the protesters. One of the protester fell off a bridge and 2 were hit by a car, something which many of the western news agency are failing to report, making it seem like all 8 were shot by the police.

You know, I find it quite interesting and more so saddening, how some of our shia brothers and sisters accept certain things so easily; this recent incident being one of them. We of all people should be more critical when we hear news, especially when that news is coming from our enemies. It makes me wonder, as a shia ummah, have we learned anything from out Imams (as)? I have a feeling the general shia population doesn't even know the most basic ahadiths narrated about the Imams (as) and if they do, many are not showing it in their actions. We commemorate muharram every year for what reason then? Why did Imam Husayn (as) even fight in Karbala? Those accursed soldiers of Yazid (la'anatull..); why did they kill Ali Asghar (as) when he was of no threat to them? Didn't Imam Husayn (as) fight to pass on the Islam he was taught by the Prophet (pbuh) and by his father Imam Ali (as)? Was it not because of their hatred for Imam Ali (as) that they pierced the neck of Ali Asghar (as)? Their hearts were black, with vengeance from Imam Ali (as), for killing their fathers in previous battles. We say, " Ya Husayn madhloom!," but I have no doubt that on the dhuhr of Ashura, as Imam Husayn (as) rode towards the enemy, he yelled, "Ya Ali madhloom!." The ummah during Imam Ali (as)'s time was brain washed. Brain washed to the point that when Imam Ali (a) passed away and the people asked how and they were told in sujood; they responded by saying, "Really? Ali (a) prayed?."

Propaganda. It happened then, and has been happening ever since. As Muslims, we should be smart. As shia muslims, we should be really smart.

My mother passed on a word of advice to me a long time ago, inspirational words of wisdom she says she inherited from the revolution's great leader, Imam Khomeini (ra): "Know that if the enemy approves of or encourages your actions, you are not on the right path, for the enemy doesn't have your interest at heart." What these protesters are doing in Iran today, is exactly what the enemies want them to do. Shias have been killed in more than a couple of cities these past few days, for no reason other than mourning the tragedy of Karbala and here the news agencies are reporting on Iran more than any of the other areas. Obama took time from vacationing in Hawaii to express his solidarity with "8 dead" rioters in Iran, rather than the "almost 40 dead and 80 injured" in Karachi. He even had the audacity to say, "The United States joins with the international community in strongly condemning the violent and unjust suppression of innocent Iranian citizens." Seriously, the guy has some nerve. On a side note though, I love it when political figures make ridiculous remarks about Iran, because then I get to hear President Ahmadinejad's response. I always have the urge to yell, "Takbir!" after his remarks, but the old guy, with the loud voice in Iran beats me to it.

Bottom line, the west is encouraging the protesters and like I believe someone else mentioned before, this is an event very similar to what happened during Mossadegh's time. Only the difference this time around, is that the people fighting against the foreign intrusion, have Islam and a great deal of experience.

Definitely seems like a misuse of Ashura - but it is hard to know these things when media is banned - which in itself raises suspiciions.

The many video clips I have seen - show the chanting protestors who are just doing that - chanting - and perhaps are guilty of blocking traffic and creating a disturbance..and then the "security" - hard to know who is who - on motorbikes who drive into the crowd and bash people - repeatedly - on the head with a bar used as a weapon (that would be attempted murder where I live) - and continue to bash them even when they are on the ground - and THEN the crowd turns ugly.

Shots have been fired and peopel killed - again, I would think that if a non-security person had a gun - it would be kind of obvious....

Media is banned for the same reason I made reference to above. It is banned because they do what they do so well: twist around facts to the point that you can't tell what's true and what's not, even if you were the reporter yourself. There is no need to have the British reporting in Iran. The government has enough proof and reason not to let other news agencies in the country and it does not need to explain itself to others. It's our country, our land, we make the rules.

The video clips you failed to see, are those showing how the protesters put shops and cars on fire. Every government not only has the right to defend the people against such outbursts, but more importantly has the responsibility to do so. Living in the west or being accustomed to its ways, I would assume all of us are very familiar with the way the police force responds in the US and UK. I remember for almost 3 years, the US government wouldn't give us the license to protest on Yawm al Quds so we couldn't take part in our area. If we were to start protesting regardless though, the government had the right to arrest us and if we retaliated, use "force." I've seen the police use "force" in demonstrations before, for pointless reasons I must add, and they were not very nice. I am pretty sure that's the reason why we didn't protest, because if it weren't for the law, we would have been out there with our signs on Quds. So basically, I find it a bit questioning when people start becoming protective of protesters that are putting public and personal property on fire.

You have really sparked my curiosity as to where you live, because where I'm from murder weapons consist of guns and knives and usually the police force is expected to have the former of the two. My friends walk around with pepper spray, which I personally think is more "dangerous" than a "bar." Just my personal opinion as to what I'd prefer to be "beaten" with; I'm not too fond of the chemicals. In an attempt to psychoanalyze myself, I'm guessing its the chemical weapons used by Saddam (la'anatull..) that make me a bit "apprehensive" of pepper spray. All.. A'alam.

All the truth which has been said is from All.. (swt) and that which is not is from myself.

Edited by motee'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bismill..

Asalaamu Alaykum,

Media is banned for the same reason I made reference to above. It is banned because they do what they do so well: twist around facts to the point that you can't tell what's true and what's not, even if you were the reporter yourself. There is no need to have the British reporting in Iran. The government has enough proof and reason not to let other news agencies in the country and it does not need to explain itself to others. It's our country, our land, we make the rules.

The video clips you failed to see, are those showing how the protesters put shops and cars on fire. Every government not only has the right to defend the people against such outbursts, but more importantly has the responsibility to do so. Living in the west or being accustomed to its ways, I would assume all of us are very familiar with the way the police force responds in the US and UK. I remember for almost 3 years, the US government wouldn't give us the license to protest on Yawm al Quds so we couldn't take part in our area. If we were to start protesting regardless though, the government had the right to arrest us and if we retaliated, use "force." I've seen the police use "force" in demonstrations before, for pointless reasons I must add, and they were not very nice. I am pretty sure that's the reason why we didn't protest, because if it weren't for the law, we would have been out there with our signs on Quds. So basically, I find it a bit questioning when people start becoming protective of protesters that are putting public and personal property on fire.

You have really sparked my curiosity as to where you live, because where I'm from murder weapons consist of guns and knives and usually the police force is expected to have the former of the two. My friends walk around with pepper spray, which I personally think is more "dangerous" than a "bar." Just my personal opinion as to what I'd prefer to be "beaten" with; I'm not too fond of the chemicals. In an attempt to psychoanalyze myself, I'm guessing its the chemical weapons used by Saddam (la'anatull..) that make me a bit "apprehensive" of pepper spray. All.. A'alam.

Wasalam

I posted what I have seen in numerous video clips – I have seen people, doing absolutely nothing else but chanting, beaten full force with bars – they are obviously heavy and inflict a lot of damage – blunt force trauma with a heavy object being swung at your head with maximum force from a young strong man - REPEATEDLY – is meant to create serious harm….pepper spray can irritate but will most likely not create an acquired brain injury or death…that is obvious...your comparison is confusing and apologetic. Only guns and knives can kill?

Presenting this brutality as acceptable by comparing these acts favourably to police brutality methods in other countries – especially in countries that are negatively criticized in every other way - is a smoke screen – meant to deflect focus.

I also have seen (and can post) videos of Iranian security with rifles – and further in one video is a man who has a large hole in his head – seemingly from a high powered weapon at close range. Anyone with this type of weapon, other than the police – who obviously have weapons, would be seen by someone – there are enough people out there.

I am not condoning the behaviour of groups of protestors doing illegal acts and destroying property and hurting people; it is obviously out of control. However, if we use the current mantra of “no one shot at the protestors” – how do you know that the Iranian security did not start those fires to cover their brutality? That way of thinking goes both ways.

When the police or security ups the level of violence – the crowds follow suit. Cognition takes a nose dive when people are emotionally agitated. Upping the level of violence is not meant to calm or dispel....just the opposite….

Bias of the media is rampant regardless of who or what country does the reporting – including Iran. For similar stated reasons, Israel imposes international press bans when they do their business as well. I don’t trust them either.

Edited by Maryaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasalam

I posted what I have seen in numerous video clips – I have seen people, doing absolutely nothing else but chanting, beaten full force with bars – they are obviously heavy and inflict a lot of damage – blunt force trauma with a heavy object being swung at your head with maximum force from a young strong man - REPEATEDLY – is meant to create serious harm….pepper spray can irritate but will most likely not create an acquired brain injury or death…that is obvious...your comparison is confusing and apologetic. Only guns and knives can kill?

Presenting this brutality as acceptable by comparing these acts favourably to police brutality methods in other countries – especially in countries that are negatively criticized in every other way - is a smoke screen – meant to deflect focus.

I also have seen (and can post) videos of Iranian security with rifles – and further in one video is a man who has a large hole in his head – seemingly from a high powered weapon at close range. Anyone with this type of weapon, other than the police – who obviously have weapons, would be seen by someone – there are enough people out there.

I am not condoning the behaviour of groups of protestors doing illegal acts and destroying property and hurting people; it is obviously out of control. However, if we use the current mantra of “no one shot at the protestors” – how do you know that the Iranian security did not start those fires to cover their brutality? That way of thinking goes both ways.

When the police or security ups the level of violence – the crowds follow suit. Cognition takes a nose dive when people are emotionally agitated. Upping the level of violence is not meant to calm or dispel....just the opposite….

Bias of the media is rampant regardless of who or what country does the reporting – including Iran. For similar stated reasons, Israel imposes international press bans when they do their business as well. I don’t trust them either.

Bismill..

Asalaamu Alaykum,

My apologies, the last paragraph was suppose to come off with more sarcasm and comedy than it did, meaning I wasn't too serious; however I still don't think using a bat or a "bar" by the police force to stop protesters from damaging property is considered as an "attempt of murder" or a "murder weapon." Of course they are hitting the protesters, which obviously means pain and physical harm. When making a comparrison to the US or other western countries, in terms of the domestic police force, one can't automatically denounce it as a whole simply because it is the west. The police needs to do its job, and in many cases when it comes to the law breakers they need to use force. In some of the protests I've been to, we've had Muslim brothers who got arrested, because they themselves refused to adhere to the law. I have no sympathy for them. If we want our voices to be heard, we need to do it within the legal framework. Yes we have seen countless videos showing police brutality, but those are in instances where it is clear that the victim was being dealt with unjustly. What I was trying to say, is that in Iran, like the US, and like every other country, the police is going to retaliate when there are law breakers. The law breaker being a woman or man, must be stopped even if that means they are going to be beaten. You break the law, then you need to face the consequences. Truthfully, it makes no sense to think that a group of people can put things on fire and disrupt a whole city and in return the government will deal with them gently or "calmly lead them away from the scene." I have never heard of such a thing and doubt anyone would agree to it.

In regards to "upping the level of violence," I truthfully don't know how you have concluded that the police is what triggered the protests and not the other way around. I don't know what has made you assume the police has "upped" their violence level. Police retaliation is based on the protests. If there are no protests; there will be no retaliation and if there are protests; there will be retaliation. It does not work the other way around.

Also, I don't know if among your numerous video clips, you have seen any of the the incidents, where the crowd "repeatedly" hit the police officers. Trust me the protesters are not the "oppressed," the media is making it seem so. The city is tired of this upheaval and I assure you a very large majority of the people are against these riots. People fail to realize that rioting doesn't take a large number of people. All you need is a handful of people to cause so much damage that an entire city will fall apart. That handful needs to be dealt with.

All the truth which has been said is from All.. (swt) and that which is not is from myself.

Edited by motee'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasalam

I posted what I have seen in numerous video clips – I have seen people, doing absolutely nothing else but chanting, beaten full force with bars – they are obviously heavy and inflict a lot of damage – blunt force trauma with a heavy object being swung at your head with maximum force from a young strong man - REPEATEDLY – is meant to create serious harm….pepper spray can irritate but will most likely not create an acquired brain injury or death…that is obvious...your comparison is confusing and apologetic. Only guns and knives can kill?

Presenting this brutality as acceptable by comparing these acts favourably to police brutality methods in other countries – especially in countries that are negatively criticized in every other way - is a smoke screen – meant to deflect focus.

I also have seen (and can post) videos of Iranian security with rifles – and further in one video is a man who has a large hole in his head – seemingly from a high powered weapon at close range. Anyone with this type of weapon, other than the police – who obviously have weapons, would be seen by someone – there are enough people out there.

I am not condoning the behaviour of groups of protestors doing illegal acts and destroying property and hurting people; it is obviously out of control. However, if we use the current mantra of “no one shot at the protestors” – how do you know that the Iranian security did not start those fires to cover their brutality? That way of thinking goes both ways.

When the police or security ups the level of violence – the crowds follow suit. Cognition takes a nose dive when people are emotionally agitated. Upping the level of violence is not meant to calm or dispel....just the opposite….

Bias of the media is rampant regardless of who or what country does the reporting – including Iran. For similar stated reasons, Israel imposes international press bans when they do their business as well. I don’t trust them either.

OK, you could post the Videos as you are claiming about Iranian Forces brutally STARTING beating the PEACEFUL Demonstrators.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm finding some of the righteous infignation here a bit disingeneous.

Taking offense to being political on Ashoura? Seriously?

If you hadn't noticed, Ashoura is political at its roots. Always has been, always will be.

As I understand it, the Iranian Revolution gained momentum through just such sorts of politicizations of Ashoura. Timely protests and majlises linking explicitly

the corruption and oppression of the Shah with the tyranny of Yazid.

What is more, it is my understanding that the Iranian govt consistently uses the Muharram commemorations to consolidate and maintain power by linking the Americans, British, Europeans, etc to Yazid.

So what you are really objecting to is not politics on Ashoura, but that these protestors are using the same playbook to argue the case that your own favorites are Yazidi oppressors.

One can certainly object to that thesis, but it's a tad inconsistent given historical precedent to act as if it is some sort of heresy for them to advance such an argument at this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lies, lies and lies.

What kind of shi'i muslim would riot on the day of Ashura? What kind of shi'i muslim would revolt on the day of Ashura? What kind of shi'i muslim would misuse the day of the slaughter of Hussayn (as) for political motivations?

The only satanic thing about this are the people who started this riot on this day for mourning. There is enough light for one to see.

Ayatollah Khomeini for one.

He used Ashura as a political tool because if divorced from the present Ashura strips down to a bare ritual.

That being said, the info coming out of Iran is a bit murky because of media bar and I would reserve my judgement on the riots and killings until things clear up a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Iran protest news is getting a bit old now, and what, about 10 dead? Yesterday we had 40+ killed in Pakistan.

The news was slow to get published and today does not even make it to the front pages of main British newspapers (Times, Guardian, Telegraph). OTOH we have the liberal Guardian still running the Iran story as one of its major ones and the Times featuring it a bit lower in the running order.

Pakistan is a nuclear armed country, elements within it are responsible for training and supporting the armed militants in Afghanistan, where western troops are hugely exposed. Yet there seems to be no interest in gathering news from Pakistani bloggers, twitterists, Facebookers and the like.

OTOH, Iran which poses no threat to anyone, bar standing in the way of Israel's imperialist intentions, gets massive coverage and even a reaction from the US State Department and the British Foreign Secretary (neither of whom said anything about the Pakistan blasts by the way).

Similarly we have the Zionist acolytes on Shiachat whose news/interest/concern agenda appears to be driven by a concern for others' wellbeing - as long as they are Iranian opposition members.

Paki Shias can rot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bismill..

Asalaamu Alaykum,

In regards to "upping the level of violence," I truthfully don't know how you have concluded that the police is what triggered the protests and not the other way around. I don't know what has made you assume the police has "upped" their violence level. Police retaliation is based on the protests. If there are no protests; there will be no retaliation and if there are protests; there will be retaliation. It does not work the other way around.

Also, I don't know if among your numerous video clips, you have seen any of the the incidents, where the crowd "repeatedly" hit the police officers. Trust me the protesters are not the "oppressed," the media is making it seem so. The city is tired of this upheaval and I assure you a very large majority of the people are against these riots. People fail to realize that rioting doesn't take a large number of people. All you need is a handful of people to cause so much damage that an entire city will fall apart. That handful needs to be dealt with.

By "upping the violence" I meant escalating the situation - ususally the job of security is to de-escalate and calm and get control - that is not what they were doing. Could there be an agenda to promote a violent reaction to "justify" a very hard handed approach? I started noticing this since the protests in the summer, there seems to be a pattern -again relying on video shot by those in the street as that is all that is available - that peaceful protests (of people of all ages) are escalated by the security rushing in and creating havoc. There are video shot in the summer which shows security destroying property - parked cars and bikes - systematically going from one to the other. I dont think they dream this stuff up on their own - I think they are told what to do and do it. The beatings are bizarre. I have posted just a few video, that are not bloody and offensive, to explain what I mean:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

may Allah punish the BIHAYA O BIGHAYRAT so called reformists who ruined the holy day of Ashura, they have now unvieled themselves that they are not only against vilayat e faqeh but they are payed for their enimity towards islam , muslims were mourning and they were setting public property on fire.

MARG BAR ZID E INQALAB

Edited by khuram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Similarly we have the Zionist acolytes on Shiachat whose news/interest/concern agenda appears to be driven by a concern for others' wellbeing - as long as they are Iranian opposition members.

Paki Shias can rot.

Zionist acolytes? :huh:

The OP of this thread very recently had a bomb blast, that killed and injured many people, go off very close to his home in Pakistan on a route that he and his family regularly travel. I dont think those of us sitting in our safe and secure homes could in any way be more aware than he is of the violence, He has to live in that nightmare of not knowing what is going to happen next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zionist acolytes? :huh:

Of course. The people complaining here about the IRI are pursuing the same agenda as the pro-Zionist western politicians and press.

The OP of this thread very recently had a bomb blast, that killed and injured many people, go off very close to his home in Pakistan on a route that he and his family regularly travel.

Which illustrates my point perfectly. What threat is the IRI to him? None whatsoever.

What threat are al-Qaeda and their supporters? Quite significant IMHO.

These blasts should be a wake-up call.

Somehow I don't think they will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course. The people complaining here about the IRI are pursuing the same agenda as the pro-Zionist western politicians and press.

How do you know that? That is not my agenda.

Which illustrates my point perfectly. What threat is the IRI to him? None whatsoever.

What threat are al-Qaeda and their supporters? Quite significant IMHO.

These blasts should be a wake-up call.

Somehow I don't think they will be.

Of the many many PakiShia on this forum, he is one of the few posters who has posted on the blasts in Pakistan several times. Why choose to assume the motives or level of awarenss of the poster, who is, as I said earlier, more aware than either you or I every time he steps from his home? Wake up calls dont get much stronger and impactful. He is the only person who knows his intent.

Edited by Maryaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

freedom of expression and political opposition must not include the violation of islamic laws and disgracing the highly respected religious personalities. they actually want to throw away islamic system which can not be allowed because majority wants it. but u r free to dream about it wink.gif

proof, the thinking of BIHAYA reformists is the idealogy of yazid , Insulting RasoolAllah pbuh.gif

post-49183-12621140289572_thumb.jpg

Edited by khuram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Iran protest news is getting a bit old now, and what, about 10 dead? Yesterday we had 40+ killed in Pakistan.

Pakistan is a nuclear armed country, elements within it are responsible for training and supporting the armed militants in Afghanistan, where western troops are hugely exposed. Yet there seems to be no interest in gathering news from Pakistani bloggers, twitterists, Facebookers and the like.

Bro have you seen those similar looking pictures juxtaposed together under which a line reads "Spot the Differences", and the correct answers are printed upside down so you can't read them through the corners of your eyes when you can't hold your curiosity? You have to turn around the paper to read them. The situation in Iran and Pakistan is not comparable by any stretch of imagination but I will still be generous and make a comparison of the two not-so-similar pictures. So let us spot some differences.

1. The reason we don't need twitters, facebook and amateur footage because media in Pakistan is free of any government intervention and report anything they want whereas freedom of press in Iran is Wordsworth's Cuckoo often dreamed but never seen. There have been a couple of cases of government intervention in Pakistan and both times it turned out to be an embarrassment for the government.

2. The people who died in Iran - reports range from 8 to 15 - died due to direct government suppression of the protests. The dead who belonged to the political opposition were protesting against what they still believe a phony election. Regardless of the authenticity of elections, they have the right to have their say and to speak against the government and the very polity of the Supreme Leader. They were killed doing exactly that. WHEREAS the 43 Shia did not die in Karachi due to any government suppression. They were bombed to death most probably by members of the banned takfiri organisations like LeJ or SSP in collaboration with TTP.

3. During the Cold War, Pakistan's army and intelligence trained and supported armed militants in Afghanistan with close collaboration of the US. This is no secret. The same Pakistan turned against the militants when US decided to invade Afghanistan. The danger to which now-resident NATO armies are exposed is a later development. So we don't need twitter and facebook for that - and then Westerners DO need inside information when it comes to issues of differences. The case in point in A.Q.Khan, who allegedly helped IRAN, Libya and North Korea with nuclear stuff. But alas this info is too confidential to be coming from tweeters, facebookers and ordinary bloggers.

Similarly we have the Zionist acolytes on Shiachat whose news/interest/concern agenda appears to be driven by a concern for others' wellbeing - as long as they are Iranian opposition members.

Paki Shias can rot.

That is not due to "Zionist acolytes". I have not seen a single non-Pakistani posting a word in the Karachi Ashura Blast thread in South Asian forums. But Pakistanis and people of Pakistani origin are soo darn quick to defend a government in a neighbouring country which claims to rule by the stick of Islam. Pakistani Shia can indeed rot in hell.

Of course. The people complaining here about the IRI are pursuing the same agenda as the pro-Zionist western politicians and press.

This is an old old formula to discredit your opponents with accusations of being Western pawns. That is what the Iranian regime does. This is what WF loyals do. This trick worked well into the early years of the Revolution and during the Cold War but it has lost currency of late. It is now time you create a third category and put in that category Iranian opposition leaders and majority of people behind them as well as non-Iranians like me who agree with their demands in principal.

Which illustrates my point perfectly. What threat is the IRI to him? None whatsoever.

What threat are al-Qaeda and their supporters? Quite significant IMHO.

These blasts should be a wake-up call.

Somehow I don't think they will be.

I'm wondering how does that illustrates your point perfectly?

If we only took positions due to personal threats to ourselves than I fail to see your constant protests against US-UK invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. These wars posed no threat to a Londoner. So why bother what happens thousands of kilometers away in the Middle East? Whereas what happens in Afghanistan and Iran has direct impact on Pakistan as we share land borders with both.

Edited by Marbles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

freedom of expression and political opposition must not include the violation of islamic laws and disgracing the highly respected religious personalities. they actually want to throw away islamic system which can not be allowed because majority wants it.wink.gif

proof, the thinking of BI HAYA o BI GHAYRAT reformists is the idealogy of yazid , Insulting RasoolAllah

post-49183-12621170395195_thumb.jpg

Edited by khuram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bro have you seen those similar looking pictures juxtaposed together under which a line reads "Spot the Differences", and the correct answers are printed upside down so you can't read them through the corners of your eyes when you can't hold your curiosity? You have to turn around the paper to read them. The situation in Iran and Pakistan is not comparable by any stretch of imagination but I will still be generous and make a comparison of the two not-so-similar pictures. So let us spot some differences.

1. The reason we don't need twitters, facebook and amateur footage because media in Pakistan is free of any government intervention and report anything they want whereas freedom of press in Iran is Wordsworth's Cuckoo often dreamed but never seen. There have been a couple of cases of government intervention in Pakistan and both times it turned out to be an embarrassment for the government.

2. The people who died in Iran - reports range from 8 to 15 - died due to direct government suppression of the protests. The dead who belonged to the political opposition were protesting against what they still believe a phony election. Regardless of the authenticity of elections, they have the right to have their say and to speak against the government and the very polity of the Supreme Leader. They were killed doing exactly that. WHEREAS the 43 Shia did not die in Karachi due to any government suppression. They were bombed to death most probably by members of the banned takfiri organisations like LeJ or SSP in collaboration with TTP.

3. During the Cold War, Pakistan's army and intelligence trained and supported armed militants in Afghanistan with close collaboration of the US. This is no secret. The same Pakistan turned against the militants when US decided to invade Afghanistan. The danger to which now-resident NATO armies are exposed is a later development. So we don't need twitter and facebook for that - and then Westerners DO need inside information when it comes to issues of differences. The case in point in A.Q.Khan, who allegedly helped IRAN, Libya and North Korea with nuclear stuff. But alas this info is too confidential to be coming from tweeters, facebookers and ordinary bloggers.

That is not due to "Zionist acolytes". I have not seen a single non-Pakistani posting a word in the Karachi Ashura Blast thread in South Asian forums. But Pakistanis and people of Pakistani origin are soo darn quick to defend a government in a neighbouring country which claims to rule by the stick of Islam. Pakistani Shia can indeed rot in hell.

This is an old old formula to discredit your opponents with accusations of being Western pawns. That is what the Iranian regime does. This is what WF loyals do. This trick worked well into the early years of the Revolution and during the Cold War but it has lost currency of late. It is now time you create a third category and put in that category Iranian opposition leaders and majority of people behind them as well as non-Iranians like me who agree with their demands in principal.

I'm wondering how does that illustrates your point perfectly?

If we only took positions due to personal threats to ourselves than I fail to see your constant protests against US-UK invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. These wars posed no threat to a Londoner. So why bother what happens thousands of kilometers away in the Middle East? Whereas what happens in Afghanistan and Iran has direct impact on Pakistan as we share land borders with both.

Thank You,

It amazes me that people here use PressTV, they are ridiculous source. The channel that reported Montazeri's death the day after it happened and pixalated Neda's death... although happy to show dead Gazan children out in full view.

______________

The Iranian commander has repeatedly said,, the police did not fire at any of the protesters. One of the protester fell off a bridge and 2 were hit by a car, something which many of the western news agency are failing to report, making it seem like all 8 were shot by the police.

I wonder who hit them...

:dry:

Also you must be pretty clumsy to fall off a bridge...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

freedom of expression and political opposition must not include the violation of islamic laws and disgracing the highly respected religious personalities. they actually want to throw away islamic system which can not be allowed because majority wants it.wink.gif

proof, the thinking of BI HAYA o BI GHAYRAT reformists is the idealogy of yazid , Insulting RasoolAllah

Oh you have really exposed those thousands of protesters in the streets of Tehran with this stupid youtube picture. They are undone, unhorsed, unleashed!

One, highly respected so called religious personalities are disgracing themselves with the dictatorial nature of their so called religious rule. Two, black and white turbans with flowing abayas are not an insurance against public criticism especially when these people are running the affairs of the state. Three, which Islamic laws people violate when they ask for free and fair elections, demand freedom of expression and of political opposition, and protest against the rampant corruptions in the elite circles. Islamic system did you say? Yeah right :huh:

That did NOT come from "BI HAYA o BI GHAYRAT reformists". That youtube comment is probably made by a rabid nationalist or a pro-Shah irreligious/atheist. There are handful of them in the US and around. They can't be labelled as "reformists" as they don't believe in the Revolution ab initio. Bringing up these people (who believe that the US should invade Iran for regime change) and rabid nationalists (who cannot see beyond the tip of their noses) to discredit Iranian masses (who have turned against the government for legitimate reasons) is an insult to the faculty of human logic.

It amazes me that people here use PressTV, they are ridiculous source. The channel that reported Montazeri's death the day after it happened and pixalated Neda's death... although happy to show dead Gazan children out in full view.

Press TV is Iranian version of Fox News. Both channels are extremely biased and follow a certain agenda. Fair minded people who are careful with Fox for this reason should be as careful with Press TV.

Edited by Marbles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Press TV is Iranian version of Fox News. Both channels are extremely biased and follow a certain agenda. Fair minded people who are careful with Fox for this reason should be as careful with Press TV.

No

Press TV is the Iranian version of all mainstream Western media

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No

Press TV is the Iranian version of all mainstream Western media

LOL.... I guess you don't watch/read much British Media then

its a moot point to compare Media in Iran, compared to Western Nations, reasons are obvious...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Zahratul_Islam

Let us also condemn Press TV then.

That won't happen. I love how the same people who are outraged by Fox News can't seem to muster up the same level of indignation about another channel that is blatant propaganda but happens to be peddling an agenda they agree with. I think that it is healthy to have competing news organizations that call each other out and attempt to keep the "other side" honest or hold them somewhat accountable for their actions, so in that sense I have no problems with Press TV.. but spare me the line about how it is in any way a credible news organization with the aim of pursuing the truth rather than the aim of defending their own absolute truths.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That did NOT come from "BI HAYA o BI GHAYRAT reformists". That youtube comment is probably made by a rabid nationalist or a pro-Shah irreligious/atheist. There are handful of them in the US and around.

both of u have the same target

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no doubt that the opposition camp has it's share of rioting troublemakers, but the Basijis are worse, imo. They seem to be instigating violence and disorder in this video, and it isn't the first time.

Bismill..

Asalaamu Alaykum,

I find the current situation with people's viewpoints about the Basij to possibly be the most amusing of topics I hear about. Until a few months ago, half the people saying, "Basij this" and "Basij that," didn't even know what the Basij was. It's like the news using the word "Madressa" to make their news reports more dramatic, knowing that the people don't know it simply means school and not a Taliban camp or something. I am pretty sure most of the people who talk about the Basij, don't know its difference with the Sepah (IRGC) or any of the other military branches. Basij is the new "alien word" the media is throwing around and the people are just imitating them. It makes we wonder if the western news agencies ever even knew about the Basij until a few months ago, because the word was not in their vocab before this whole event.

I will tell you who the Basij are. They are those who ever since the revolution have been putting there lives on the line, trying to protect our people and our country. The Basij stand at our borders and fight with drug dealers and other criminals. They are the ones who ran to the aid of the people in Bam, when it was hit by the earthquake. The Basij are the people who dressed in white cloth last year, ready to go fight in Gaza alongside their muslim brothers. They are selfless and have the ummah's interest at heart, something which definitely cannot be said about the protesters who All.. (swt) knows about their true intentions. I pray for the Basij's health and prosperity and may All.. (swt) increase their eman and make them successful in this world and the next iA!

All the truth which has been said is from All.. (swt) and that which is not is from myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL.... I guess you don't watch/read much British Media then

its a moot point to compare Media in Iran, compared to Western Nations, reasons are obvious...

I read the BBC. And I have read the line "Iran's Elite Republican Guards" enough to know that BBC is rubbish.

Let us also condemn Press TV then.

Nope. Not everything can be applied equally.

During the Vietnam war, both the United States and Vietnam tortured war prisoners. Are these two crimes of equal proportion? Not at all. Context is important.

Now with regard to Press TV, it is read and watched mostly by Muslims in the West (Shia to be more specific). The BBC is read and watched by a much wider constituency. And moreover, it has a rather large audience within Iran. Press TV doesn't have that type of omnipresence and is certainly not considered to be legitimate by a large number of Britons. Therefore, it should not be held to the same standard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. The reason we don't need twitters, facebook and amateur footage because media in Pakistan is free of any government intervention and report anything they want whereas freedom of press in Iran is Wordsworth's Cuckoo often dreamed but never seen.

Coverage of events in Pakistan (in the UK) media was slow and limited. There was little reportage from people actually on the ground. The BBC reported the following:

The bombing unleashed further pandemonium as angry Shia mourners fired shots in the air. Rioters torched dozens of shops and vehicles, while members of the security forces who had been guarding the procession were pelted with stones.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8432409.stm

As has been widely commented on, people do not attend Ashura jaloos with cans of petrol or guns. The BBC was parroting the line the terrorists wanted to be publicised, which was that if Sunni extremists started the violence, the Shia continued it. Thus leading to more sectarian violence.

The truth is, of course, that in Pakistan the BBC can make up whatever fairytales it likes, whereas in Iran it needs the help of traitors.

WHEREAS the 43 Shia did not die in Karachi due to any government suppression. They were bombed to death most probably by members of the banned takfiri organisations like LeJ or SSP in collaboration with TTP.

I see, so the government and the different agencies that comprise it are totally innocent in terms of Wahhabist extremist elements? The latter are beings imported from outer space? The fact of course is that the Pakistan government is riddled with Sunni extremists but no-one cared about them before, because they exclusively murdered Shias, now that their targets are more ambitious (army posts), the wider public is becoming more concerned.

So there is a problem with the government.

That is not due to "Zionist acolytes".

So why is it that the line you usually take is usually mirrored by the most Zionist of Western media? That you are ever so concerned about Iranians, but hardly ever about Palestinians?

Let's be clear about this. You belong to a class of Pakistanis who think that the Iranian government is the root cause of the problems facing the Shia. You believe that because of that government the Shia are seen as a threat by Israel and the Wahhbist Arabs. You believe that if the IRI were to collapse then the world could revert to where it was pre-1979 and you could go back to sharing your flask of wine with your Sunni & Zionist friends.

You are deluded of course.

If we only took positions due to personal threats to ourselves than I fail to see your constant protests against US-UK invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. These wars posed no threat to a Londoner. So why bother what happens thousands of kilometers away in the Middle East? Whereas what happens in Afghanistan and Iran has direct impact on Pakistan as we share land borders with both.

Er, because British troops are involved in both locations and as a taxpayer and a patriotic Briton I have every right to protest against adventures where British soldiers lives will be needlessly lost in pursuit of agendas decided in secret and which the majority of Britons did not support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

There are services like the google news agrregator that pickups of Iran news from any media, including PressTV. If you have been following Iran news from http://news.google.com you will noticed that PressTV is always in the top ten list of source. You know google don't randomly put you in the top ten list for nothing.

BBC might have a lot of followers world wide due to its brand name but I am unsure everyone gets their news from the bbc. Don't forget the blogs. And google can send you anywhere including to ShiaChat. Of course I am assuming there is something worthwhile being said about 'Iran politics' on ShiaChat. :dry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read the BBC. And I have read the line "Iran's Elite Republican Guards" enough to know that BBC is rubbish.

i hope your not basing an entire News organisation on a solitary line? If so, PressTV should've be binned months ago for its ludicrous bias.

However, the more important point has to be made is, I hope you aren't doing the common mistake of equating BBC= British Media.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i hope your not basing an entire News organisation on a solitary line? If so, PressTV should've be binned months ago for its ludicrous bias.

However, the more important point has to be made is, I hope you aren't doing the common mistake of equating BBC= British Media.

No, I can bring up some other problems. But that one recurring (not "solitary") line is my favorite.

The BBC is owned by the British government and is broadcast in more languages probably than any other news service. It is commonly perceived as being "fair" or "legitimate" by large groups of different people. People will always equate BBC with British media regardless of how unfair you think that is.

There are many non-state media outlets in Iran as well but I don't see you talking about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

I know that this is not an ideal situation, but shouldn't the President of Iran do something about this? :unsure:

I am aware that the protesters may not have voted for him and the Iranian police did not shoot any of the protesters but he will get blamed if he does nothing about this "problem".

Throwing dirt at each other may give a temporary relief to both sides, but in the long run it does nothing.

Edited by Zareen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What kind of nonsense is this?

What country on earth would allow a small group to take over the country BY FORCE?

If there was even a hint of fraud, Fox news et al would be all over it, the UN would never leave their offices until the world condemned Iran etc. Yet nothing happened like this, no clear damming evidence was ever put to light, even the "leaders" of the rioters have shown us nothing.

The simple fact is, these rioters want to take the country by force, just like every country in the world, they will be crushed with force.

Have a look at the recent demonstrations in Copenhagen at the Global warming summit, the protesters were there making all sorts of fuss and damage, and they were beaten in response. The british government didnt raise an eye brow, infact they have crushed their own people in exactly the same manner, and even when those protesters had valid points!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...