Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Origin of Ziyarat Ashura

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Basic Members

Is anyone able to explain where Ziyarat Ashura originated from? All those I ask tell me that they heard what they think is the correct answer in some majlis. Does anyone have any way of validating this Ziyarat. The reason I ask is because when reading the translation, I was taken back by the amount of curses; "Allah curse... Allah condemn..."

Edited by abbas.yumna
Link to post
Share on other sites

Is anyone able to explain where Ziyarat Ashura originated from? All those I ask tell me that they heard what they think is the correct answer in some majlis. Does anyone have any way of validating this Ziyarat. The reason I ask is because when reading the translation, I was taken back by the amount of curses; "Allah curse... Allah condemn..."

salam brother

the ziarat is fake most of it , and it was tampered with , this ziarat can be found in few sources :maily kamil al-ziarat and misbah al-kabeer and this ziarat has very weak sanad and it's not proven

also sayed ibn tawoos testified that the part with all the cursing was never in the original copy of misbah

here's what sayed ibvn tawoos said:

åÐå ÇáÑæÇíÉ äÞáäÇåÇ ÈÅÓäÇÏåÇ ãä ÇáãÕÈÇÍ ÇáßÈíÑ ¡ æåæ ãÞÇÈá ÈÎØ ãÕäÝå ÑÍãå Çááå ¡ æáã íßä Ýí ÃáÝÇÙ ÇáÒíÇÑÉ ÇáÝÕáÇä ÇááÐÇä íßÑÑÇä ãÆÉ ãÑÉ

he said : this narration we copied it with it's isnaad (sanad : chain of narrators) from misbah al-kabeer (by tusi) and it's written by his handwriting may Allah have mercy on him , and there was nothing in it from those parts of ziarat that are repeated a 100 times..

also it was reported from rasool Allah that he said: i was never sent down as a curser or insulter

salam

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The truth of this ziyarat is not found in studying its isnads (though I note the latter is a plural, hence reducing the possibility of its forgery by that fact) but in the truth of its content. It is a dedication of oneself to the Imam (as) and his cause, a separation from his enemies, a declaration of faith and loyalty, a committing and firmness to the cause. The reality of this has been experienced by many, many of those who have recited it over the centuries.

And yes, for anyone who's read my past posts on this topic, this does represent for me a firm reversal of what I'd been saying or alluding to in the past as I've been one who has raised questions about its isnad and such (Allah forgive me for raising doubts). I now realize that's missing the point, and to separate oneself from this for that is to lose a great deal, so I would recommend to anyone who aspires to being a Shi`a of the Ahl al-Bayt, recite this ziyarat and experience this yourself, in sha Allah ta`ala.

Salam,

I find the cursing contradictory to the "aspiration of being a Shia of Ahlul Bayt", no?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam,

How does tabarra equal cursing? What justification is there/what Imam did curse? I am all for cursing Yazid- but anyone else is grey area and frankly we are in no position to make such judgments and jeapordize...I know you won't agree nor do I expect you to, but I have always been curious how people can be so sure when they commit such actions, I genuinely would like to understand it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

The truth of this ziyarat is not found in studying its isnads (though I note the latter is a plural, hence reducing the possibility of its forgery by that fact) but in the truth of its content. It is a dedication of oneself to the Imam (as) and his cause, a separation from his enemies, a declaration of faith and loyalty, a committing and firmness to the cause. The reality of this has been experienced by many, many of those who have recited it over the centuries.

And yes, for anyone who's read my past posts on this topic, this does represent for me a firm reversal of what I'd been saying or alluding to in the past as I've been one who has raised questions about its isnad and such (Allah forgive me for raising doubts). I now realize that's missing the point, and to separate oneself from this for that is to lose a great deal, so I would recommend to anyone who aspires to being a Shi`a of the Ahl al-Bayt, recite this ziyarat and experience this yourself, in sha Allah ta`ala.

Highlight of my day. May Allah (swt) keep us all on the straight path.

Edited by abbas110
Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

How does tabarra equal cursing? What justification is there/what Imam did curse? I am all for cursing Yazid- but anyone else is grey area and frankly we are in no position to make such judgments and jeapordize...I know you won't agree nor do I expect you to, but I have always been curious how people can be so sure when they commit such actions, I genuinely would like to understand it.

Salam,

Without realizing it, you've answered your question right here. Since you've mentioned that you're for cursing Yazed al-la`een, then I don't need to justify the act of cursing itself obviously. Your issue would appear to be with cursing his predecessors, which you consider to be a gray area.

That "grayness" though for you is exactly the problem. Faith is not about maybes and perhapses, it's about firmness of the heart and solidity of action. It's easy to curse someone like Yazid. But to curse those before him you have to exit out of that in-between land of neither really being here nor there, trying to hedge your bets with a weak commitment and faith hoping that it'll squeeze by on either side, and enter into real Shi`ism which is all about total loyalty to the Imam and total enmity to his enemies. This is why I say cursing them is a firm and unambiguous declaration of one's commitment to them and part and parcel of being their Shi`a. It's a declaration of your membership in the saved sect and your total separation from the astray ones. It is a judgment that Shi`ism is in fact right and anything else is wrong, leaving behind all those shades of gray and entering into actual conviction and belief.

You mentioned about us not being in a position to judge and jeopardize. But jeopardize what? That Shi`ism is actually wrong and Sunnis are right? Is that how a real Shi`a would go about their beliefs? Or would they proceed with confidence and conviction that what they are on is in fact the true path, and anything else opposed to that is wrong. You must also understand that in reading the teachings of the Imams (as), there is in fact a real danger of perdition for one who does not commit oneself to bara'at from all of their enemies. So many ahadith speak of this. And you don't want to end up like those who in the wars against Amir al-Mu'mineen (as) decided to sit it out, not siding with either side. Where did that leave them? Neither supporting truth nor opposing the wrong.

Understand also I'm not just addressing the above to you, but to my weak self as well. May Allah guide and strengthen us on the right path.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

I want to say in our hadiths, it seems there always opposing things taught, at least to fundemental issues.

There is hadiths saying Ahlebayt (as) don't seperate from whom seperate from them, they're is hadiths emphasizong on stick with the Jamaaa (The Group, the umma, unity) (in fact you can find in du'a of Makramal Akhlaaq of Saheefa Sajadiya).

I want to give you example of opposing type hadiths. We have hadiths about those fighting Imam Ali (as) where Imam Ali (as) says they are NOT hypocrites. Yet he doesn't say they are upon Haq either. Rather he says "they are our brothers whom have rebelled against us".

Other hadiths show a different tone. That the two groups is disbelief vs faith, and a verse is quoted about differences after Isa (as), and in a way suggesting one side has disbelieved in the Deen and the otherside believes in it.

We have hadiths (in nahjul balagha) saying they are on the same Deen and this not the dispute.

I want to recall people to Quran's word to Mohammad (pbuh), it said if he was hard upon them, they would have all turned away from him, but rather he was merciful, fobearing, compassionate and patience. This was the initial attitude and in line with "speak to him a gentle word". However, regarding those whom turned against them, fought them, prosecuted them, even while knowing the truth, than a very hard attitude was enjoined towards them by the believers.

But this IS LAST RESORT, when the other side has become firmly rooted and stubborn and going all out for the love of world and hating the light and it's believers.

To call to this Tabara from everyone whom follows those whom had some responsiblity to thulm Ahlebayt (as), and to consider yourself detached from them? Is this what Quran teaches? Is this what the Prophets (as) of Bani-Israel did, say we are totally not part of you people, our followers have nothing to do with you? There are some people we ought to curse and speak harshly towards, but to assume this attitude with the norm of people is going to make us enemies of the verse people we claim doing it for.

When were Mustafaeen (followers) of Oppressors to be given up on, considered seperate from? If you read Quran, how it says "their brother (name of a Prophet )", what does this mean to you? Allah (swt) wants us to think of each other as enemies? Or should we have compassion and not "seperate" and consider ourselves not part of people?

Another thing is that now the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 thing makes sense to you, but it doesn't make sense linguistically and rationally. Now in this culture, people think "Thalim" 1, 2,3, 4, 5, but no one would think 5 only. It's like today people often bash the President of the US, or what not, for what happens, when there is a whole structure that is responsible, and the president has very little to do with the over all policy the country has taken.

If you realize the enemies of Allah (swt) in Quran, the planners by day and night, you realize how silly it's to single out 5 as being the Thalims to Ahlebayt (as).

I don't mean cursing is wrong, cursing is right in circumstance, to particulary people, and emphasizing on characteristics that can be changed, and this is to show a method, but it's dumb to keep this relevant to the past and not today.

Tabara I agree is essential part of Deen. In fact, if we are true to it, we would out of spite react with resolve against the enemies of Imam Zaman (as) and work to demolish their work and goals. We should work against them, strive against them... If we are truly truthful of this love and hate coming out of this love, then where is it, we hardly are bothered with the evil done by the same tree Yazid comes from...

I read Ziyarat Auli-Yaseen, Du'a Ahad, etc, I love pledging allegiance to Ahlebayt (as). But I don't believe this Ziyarat was taught by Ahlebayt (as).

Love to hear your thoughts back bro MacIsaac.

wa salam alaikom

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
salam brother

the ziarat is fake most of it , and it was tampered with , this ziarat can be found in few sources :maily kamil al-ziarat and misbah al-kabeer and this ziarat has very weak sanad and it's not proven

also sayed ibn tawoos testified that the part with all the cursing was never in the original copy of misbah

here's what sayed ibvn tawoos said:

åÐå ÇáÑæÇíÉ äÞáäÇåÇ ÈÅÓäÇÏåÇ ãä ÇáãÕÈÇÍ ÇáßÈíÑ ¡ æåæ ãÞÇÈá ÈÎØ ãÕäÝå ÑÍãå Çááå ¡ æáã íßä Ýí ÃáÝÇÙ ÇáÒíÇÑÉ ÇáÝÕáÇä ÇááÐÇä íßÑÑÇä ãÆÉ ãÑÉ

he said : this narration we copied it with it's isnaad (sanad : chain of narrators) from misbah al-kabeer (by tusi) and it's written by his handwriting may Allah have mercy on him , and there was nothing in it from those parts of ziarat that are repeated a 100 times..

If you are going to give an answer then try to put some reasoning in it. Saying things like its fake its tampered with, it has a very weak sanad etc without any proof is completely useless.

Actually it has a very strong sanad and it can easily be proven. There is a article here: http://www.valiasr-a...=maghalat&id=88 in persian which has done a great Job of answering some of the questions and ambiguities regarding its sanad. I can translate it if you wish.

So what if it is only found in a few sources? How many other ziarats or narrations do you know of that are found in multiple sources? very very few. But no one discredits the others just because they are found only in a few sources.

You say it has been tampered with and you quote sayid ibn tawoos. I haven't seen the exact sentence that sayed ibn Tavoos has said but The exact thing you mentioned has been mentioned by al_Majlesi in bihar al-Anwar with an extra sentence at the end:

æ ÅäãÇ äÞáäÇ ÇáÒíÇÑÉ ãä ÇáãÕÈÇÍ ÇáÕÛíÑ

"and we narrated this ziarat from misbah al-saghir".

Misbah al-saghir is a selection of Misbah al-Kabir which the author of Misbah al-kabir i.e. al-toosi, wrote down himself. So what seyyed ibn Tawoos is saying is the fact that he copied the ziarat from another of al-toosi's books which had the section about the hundred curses even though another one of his books didn't mention it. So you can't exactly call that tampering can you? And even if you forget about this part, there are still curses in other parts of the book which are surely untampered. like: Allahuma khossa anta avvala dhalimin bil lani minni...

also it was reported from rasool Allah that he said: i was never sent down as a curser or insulter

Him not being an insulter I agree but Him not being a curser is a lie. Next time do your homework properly and see that for instance in Sahih of Muslim there is a complete chapter called:

ÈóÇÈ ãä áóÚóäóåõ ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã Ãæ ÓóÈøóåõ Ãæ ÏóÚóÇ Úáíå

ÕÍíÍ ãÓáã Ì 4 Õ2007 ßÊÇÈ ÇáÈÑ æÇáÕÉ æÇáÂÏÇȺ

"The chapter about those people that the Prophet (pbuh) cursed them or swore to them or prayed against them (this as another form of la'n or curse)."

Sahih of Muslim, vol. 4

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Forum Administrators

And yes, for anyone who's read my past posts on this topic, this does represent for me a firm reversal of what I'd been saying or alluding to in the past as I've been one who has raised questions about its isnad and such (Allah forgive me for raising doubts). I now realize that's missing the point, and to separate oneself from this for that is to lose a great deal, so I would recommend to anyone who aspires to being a Shi`a of the Ahl al-Bayt, recite this ziyarat and experience this yourself, in sha Allah ta`ala.

:yaali:

For me the Ziarat Ashura helps define what it is to be a Shia. If ever there was an anthem for the Shia Nation, this is it. This is on my car cd, I listen to it as i drive to work.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

If you are going to give an answer then try to put some reasoning in it. Saying things like its fake its tampered with, it has a very weak sanad etc without any proof is completely useless.

Actually it has a very strong sanad and it can easily be proven. There is a article here: http://www.valiasr-a...=maghalat&id=88 in persian which has done a great Job of answering some of the questions and ambiguities regarding its sanad. I can translate it if you wish.

So what if it is only found in a few sources? How many other ziarats or narrations do you know of that are found in multiple sources? very very few. But no one discredits the others just because they are found only in a few sources.

You say it has been tampered with and you quote sayid ibn tawoos. I haven't seen the exact sentence that sayed ibn Tavoos has said but The exact thing you mentioned has been mentioned by al_Majlesi in bihar al-Anwar with an extra sentence at the end:

æ ÅäãÇ äÞáäÇ ÇáÒíÇÑÉ ãä ÇáãÕÈÇÍ ÇáÕÛíÑ

"and we narrated this ziarat from misbah al-saghir".

Misbah al-saghir is a selection of Misbah al-Kabir which the author of Misbah al-kabir i.e. al-toosi, wrote down himself. So what seyyed ibn Tawoos is saying is the fact that he copied the ziarat from another of al-toosi's books which had the section about the hundred curses even though another one of his books didn't mention it. So you can't exactly call that tampering can you? And even if you forget about this part, there are still curses in other parts of the book which are surely untampered. like: Allahuma khossa anta avvala dhalimin bil lani minni...

Him not being an insulter I agree but Him not being a curser is a lie. Next time do your homework properly and see that for instance in Sahih of Muslim there is a complete chapter called:

ÈóÇÈ ãä áóÚóäóåõ ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã Ãæ ÓóÈóøåõ Ãæ ÏóÚóÇ Úáíå

ÕÍíÍ ãÓáã Ì 4 Õ2007 ßÊÇÈ ÇáÈÑ æÇáÕÉ æÇáÂÏÇȺ

"The chapter about those people that the Prophet (pbuh) cursed them or swore to them or prayed against them (this as another form of la'n or curse)."

Sahih of Muslim, vol. 4

The link doesn't seem to be working. Could you provide a different link (the language does not matter)

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

That "grayness" though for you is exactly the problem. Faith is not about maybes and perhapses, it's about firmness of the heart and solidity of action. It's easy to curse someone like Yazid. But to curse those before him you have to exit out of that in-between land of neither really being here nor there, trying to hedge your bets with a weak commitment and faith hoping that it'll squeeze by on either side, and enter into real Shi`ism which is all about total loyalty to the Imam and total enmity to his enemies. This is why I say cursing them is a firm and unambiguous declaration of one's commitment to them and part and parcel of being their Shi`a. It's a declaration of your membership in the saved sect and your total separation from the astray ones. It is a judgment that Shi`ism is in fact right and anything else is wrong, leaving behind all those shades of gray and entering into actual conviction and belief.

(bismillah)

(salam)

I take my hat off to you, Sir.

May Allah (swt) help us all in continuously increasing our faith.

Edited by Mahdavist
Link to post
Share on other sites

salam

i disagree with macisaac a lot because his approach opens the door for following desires , our desires must be put on a leash otherwise everyone would say: i feel this hadith or the other is right and this is not a scientific approach.

mr macisaac is now asking people to read it and experience the "light" !! well many people today like pagans ask us to experience the greatness of nature and the energy that comes through the cosmos !!! and it does feel good

but matie not everything that shines is gold !!! even zina can feel great and taking drugs can feel great but is it good ? is it right??

you said there's different isnads ?? how many ?? two ?? three ??? and what if a person from ghulat and obsessive cursers have known this ziarat and then fabricated a sanad and claimed he heard it , isnt this a possibility ??

also we have words of sayed ibn tawoos saying cursing was not in the original ziarat !! was he a liar??

and if it wasent there then what does this mean ?? only one thing and that it's added by someone , isn't this a lie upon the infallibles (as) , isin't this a bida ?? so why do we blame omar for inserting bida if we are like him??

also cursing was never encouraged for shia of ahlbait , this is a hadith sahih from hussein ibn rawh

ÞÇá ÃÈæ äÕÑ åÈÉ Çááå Èä ãÍãÏ: ÍÏËäí ÃÈæ ÇáÍÓä Èä ßÈÑíÇÁ ÇáäæÈÎÊí (1) ÞÇá: ÈáÛ ÇáÔíÎ ÃÈÇ ÇáÞÇÓã ÑÖí Çááå Úäå Ãä ÈæÇÈÇ ßÇä áå Úáì ÇáÈÇÈ ÇáÇæá ÞÏ áÚä ãÚÇæíÉ æÔÊãå¡ ÝÃãÑ ÈØÑÏå æÕÑÝå Úä ÎÏãÊå¡ ÝÈÞí ãÏÉ ØæíáÉ íÓÃá Ýí ÃãÑå ÝáÇ æÇááå ãÇ ÑÏå Åáì ÎÏãÊå¡ æÃÎÐå ÈÚÖ ÇáÇåá ÝÔÛáå ãÚå

narrated abu nasr hibat Allah ibn muhammed , narrated abul hasan ibn kibrya al-nubakhti he said: it was reported to abulqassim (radhiallahu anh) that one of his porters who was on the first gate has cursed muwaya and insulted him so he oredered for him to be fired , so he (the porter) spent a long time trying to get his job back but by Allah he didnt allow him back ....

ref: ghaibah by trusi(ra) page 385-386

very strange as to why did the embassador of imam al-mahdi(as) fire this guy for cursing a cursed creature like muawya (la) ?????!!!

we know he's not masoom but he was a very good shia without a doubt but isnt this harsh ?? why penalise someone for cursing someone cursed by the prophet (saww)??

sheikh tusi said taqyyah but i dont think so : i think the message is cursing even cursed creatures excessively is not a trait of ahlbeit (as).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Say what you want, anything that involves that amount of senseless cursing is nothing short of a joke and totally against the most basic principles of our faith. IM"HUMBLE"O.

Tabarra and Tawalla go hand in hand and they are part of our religion as much as namaz and fasting is. So if it is against our basic principles then can you please post evidence of that?

Regarding the cursing, there are many arguements which show its validity. Anyhow, have a listen to this lecture by Sayed Ammar:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tabarra and Tawalla go hand in hand and they are part of our religion as much as namaz and fasting is. So if it is against our basic principles then can you please post evidence of that?

Regarding the cursing, there are many arguements which show its validity. Anyhow, have a listen to this lecture by Sayed Ammar:

that's it ! that seals it, if ammar nakshawani said this then we leave hadith of masoomin(as) and the ways of their shia and we follow ammar !!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

that's it ! that seals it, if ammar nakshawani said this then we leave hadith of masoomin(as) and the ways of their shia and we follow ammar !!!

With respect, you should be the last person to come here and preach to me about following the hadiths of the Masoom [a] especially since before you were banned under your previous id you were justifying masturbation, an act that is considered haram. And then you went further to take a swipe at Br Macisaac about him following desires, while you forgot that you were doing the same when legalising an haram act.

FYI, Ammar makes a case for the permissibility of La3n if you feel it is not valid then sure refute it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Tabarra and Tawalla go hand in hand and they are part of our religion as much as namaz and fasting is. So if it is against our basic principles then can you please post evidence of that?

Regarding the cursing, there are many arguements which show its validity. Anyhow, have a listen to this lecture by Sayed Ammar:

Next time I need an in-depth analysis of love, I will be sure to refer to brother Ammar. Disassociating yourself from the enemies of the prophets family is commonsense, just as it is doing so from anything evil or bad. Despite the extremely limited amount of instances in which lanat is sent, notice that it is almost always sent by Allah SWT. Just because Allah SWT does so doesn't in any shape or form justify our practice. Secondly it is always sent on a certain group of people and not individuals by name. There are COUNTLESS instances where the prophet was treated in such a way that would warrant a lanat based on your logic yet he set a completely opposite example. Regarding Ziyarat Ashura being the word of Allah? are there numerous instances like this where we find words of god outside of the Quran?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam,

How does tabarra equal cursing? What justification is there/what Imam did curse? I am all for cursing Yazid- but anyone else is grey area and frankly we are in no position to make such judgments and jeapordize...I know you won't agree nor do I expect you to, but I have always been curious how people can be so sure when they commit such actions, I genuinely would like to understand it.

(salam)

I disagree when you said "apart from Yazeed everyone else is in the grey area". These people are not in the grey area. The fact is they opposed the teaching of Islam and wage wars against the ahlul bayt.

We have to disassociate ourselves from them. I don't curse some people not because I think they are innocent. Because I think I should be more focused on bringing up their crimes against the ahlul bayt. I can always curse someone in my heart.

Edited by Zareen
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
also we have words of sayed ibn tawoos saying cursing was not in the original ziarat !! was he a liar??

and if it wasent there then what does this mean ?? only one thing and that it's added by someone , isn't this a lie upon the infallibles (as) , isin't this a bida ?? so why do we blame omar for inserting bida if we are like him??

For the nth time... he never said that. Not even close to that. I dont know why you keep repeating this rubbish.

also cursing was never encouraged for shia of ahlbait , this is a hadith sahih from hussein ibn rawh

قال أبو نصر هبة الله بن محمد: حدثني أبو الحسن بن كبرياء النوبختي (1) قال: بلغ الشيخ أبا القاسم رضي الله عنه أن بوابا كان له على الباب الاول قد لعن معاوية وشتمه، فأمر بطرده وصرفه عن خدمته، فبقي مدة طويلة يسأل في أمره فلا والله ما رده إلى خدمته، وأخذه بعض الاهل فشغله معه

narrated abu nasr hibat Allah ibn muhammed , narrated abul hasan ibn kibrya al-nubakhti he said: it was reported to abulqassim (radhiallahu anh) that one of his porters who was on the first gate has cursed muwaya and insulted him so he oredered for him to be fired , so he (the porter) spent a long time trying to get his job back but by Allah he didnt allow him back ....

ref: ghaibah by trusi(ra) page 385-386

very strange as to why did the embassador of imam al-mahdi(as) fire this guy for cursing a cursed creature like muawya (la) ?????!!!

we know he's not masoom but he was a very good shia without a doubt but isnt this harsh ?? why penalise someone for cursing someone cursed by the prophet (saww)??

So much confusion here. If cursing is such a bad thing, then why do you go on to curse Muawiyyah??? Why, in a post 40 minutes after that above do you curse bin baz???? (you ask Allah to deprive him of mercy which = la'na, and then call him la'een at the end). The reason is: you are confused.

i think the message is cursing even cursed creatures excessively is not a trait of ahlbeit (as).

Where did you get 'excessively' from??? The hadith says the person cursed Muawiyyah once (and also swore at him), as is clear from your translation.

Edited by .InshAllah.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Despite the extremely limited amount of instances in which lanat is sent, notice that it is almost always sent by Allah SWT. Just because Allah SWT does so doesn't in any shape or form justify our practice.

Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó íóßúÊõãõæäó ãóÇ ÃóäÒóáúäóÇ ãöäó ÇáúÈóíøöäóÇÊö æóÇáúåõÏóì ãöä ÈóÚúÏö ãóÇ ÈóíøóäøóÇåõ áöáäøóÇÓö Ýöí ÇáúßöÊóÇÈö ÃõæáóÜÆößó íóáÚóäõåõãõ Çááøåõ æóíóáúÚóäõåõãõ ÇááøóÇÚöäõæäó

Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear in the Book for men, these it is whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them (too). [2: 159]

Secondly it is always sent on a certain group of people and not individuals by name. There are COUNTLESS instances where the prophet was treated in such a way that would warrant a lanat based on your logic yet he set a completely opposite example. Regarding Ziyarat Ashura being the word of Allah? are there numerous instances like this where we find words of god outside of the Quran?

You need to read. http://www.seratonline.com/2009/06/22/1240/laanat-prohibition-or-sunnah-2/

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...