I am losing faith in Islam...

whatsthetruth · December 14, 2009

It takes a lot of courage to share your darkest secrets even when you are anonymous. You relive the past that you try to block in your head every passing moment of your life. I am an eighteen year old male, and here I am, back on the forum where I once praised Islam and shared nohas, the place where I shared my pain for the sacrifices that were made for Islam. Muharram is coming up, and for every year of my life I have been fully devoted to it. I grew up in a corner-lot house, on one side we faced a Shia Masjid, on the other side was an Imam Bargah. The images of these places are painted in my head and I will never forget them. I was raised in this house till I was nine and every Muharram i spent all my days at the Masjid for male majilis and at the Imam Bargah for the female majilis. I had done almost anything a momin does for Muharram by the time I was 9. From decorating a Taboot to carrying an Alam to doing Zanjeer ka matam at the age of five. My mother used to tell me to calm down whenever Muharram came around, she was always worried that I would get exhausted. Some of my earliest childhood memories consist of Julooses and Zuljenahs and huge Alams that I one day wished to hold. Up until I was 9, every 8th Muharram my family put together an Alam and I took it out to the juloos that passed the front of my house and concluded at the Masjid. This was based on a manat my mother made before I was born. My family used to give out milk mixed with rooh-afzah and almonds. After I turned 9 our family came to the US and we still took out an Alam in the local Imam Bargah and passed out the rooh-afzah flavored drinks. I am writing this because I have lost all faith in god and maybe this year would be the first that I don't take out an Alam.

Let's go back to when I was 5, 6, or 7, living in my neighborhood that seemed so religious. Everyone knew me by my name, I was the little kid loved by all the people at the masjid and the imam bargah. The women at the imam bargah knew me, the men at the masjid knew me, everyone on our block knew me, and maybe thats why I always felt so safe. The first time it happened was with our servant. I called him Chacha Sadiq, he was around 40 years old. Althought he was a muslim, he wasn't shia, but he always respected our believes. He was like a family member to us and I used to respect him so much. He was the first person who ever sexually molested me, and not just once, but maybe three or four times. The second person was Fouji Bhai, idk why I called him that, but he was always another guy I looked up to, Fouji Bhai. Whenever Muharram came around he would guide me around, he used to hold one of the biggest Alams, and I always wanted to be like him, tall and strong enough to hold an Alam that big. One time I ran up to him on the street to say hi and he took me to his room which was right above the Imam Bargah. Although his extent of molesting me wasn't as explicit as Sadiq's, but I still new whatever he was doing was wrong. Later i faced countless occasions where the teenagers who were living at the Masjid to be part of some Matami Dasta made me feel them up. I was a kid but I always knew something was wrong.

Then when I turned 9 i moved to the US and slowly growing up I realized what had happened to me. This made me more religous and by the age of 13-14 I started praying five times a day. I started reading up on a lot of Islamic books and especially books on Karbala. This website became a part of my religious life for where it answered many questions and helped me share my passion for the Ahl-e-Bait. I guess recently I have realized that I am not attracted to women anymore, I am attracted to men. It makes me ashamed of myself, I can't look at myself in the mirror. Was this genetic? Was i born this way? How much part did nature vs nurture play? Was it because of all the things that had happened to me growing up?

I asked many Maulanas and even talked to my sister about this, everyone said pray to Allah, and there is no such thing as being gay. I did pray to Allah, I have been praying all my life, I havent done many bad things except little white lies. Then why is god punishing me for no good reason, why would god let such a thing happen to a little boy and then turn his life miserable when he is all grown up. Then one day I thought, maybe there is no god....there is no justice...

Whatever happened to me, nature or nurture, I didn't go out and make them happen, they happened to me, they happened to me in very religous places, by very 'religous' men. Where does that leave all religions? Where does that leave Islam?

Edited December 14, 2009 by whatsthetruth

Hussian · December 14, 2009

It takes a lot of courage to share your darkest secrets even when you are anonymous. You relive the past that you try to block in your head every passing moment of your life. I am an eighteen year old male, and here I am, back on the forum where I once praised Islam and shared nohas, the place where I shared my pain for the sacrifices that were made for Islam. Muharram is coming up, and for every year of my life I have been fully devoted to it. I grew up in a corner-lot house, on one side we faced a Shia Masjid, on the other side was an Imam Bargah. The images of these places are painted in my head and I will never forget them. I was raised in this house till I was nine and every Muharram i spent all my days at the Masjid for male majilis and at the Imam Bargah for the female majilis. I had done almost anything a momin does for Muharram by the time I was 9. From decorating a Taboot to carrying an Alam to doing Zanjeer ka matam at the age of five. My mother used to tell me to calm down whenever Muharram came around, she was always worried that I would get exhausted. Some of my earliest childhood memories consist of Julooses and Zuljenahs and huge Alams that I one day wished to hold. Up until I was 9, every 8th Muharram my family put together an Alam and I took it out to the juloos that passed the front of my house and concluded at the Masjid. This was based on a manat my mother made before I was born. My family used to give out milk mixed with rooh-afzah and almonds. After I turned 9 our family came to the US and we still took out an Alam in the local Imam Bargah and passed out the rooh-afzah flavored drinks. I am writing this because I have lost all faith in god and maybe this year would be the first that I don't take out an Alam.
Let's go back to when I was 5, 6, or 7, living in my neighborhood that seemed so religious. Everyone knew me by my name, I was the little kid loved by all the people at the masjid and the imam bargah. The women at the imam bargah knew me, the men at the masjid knew me, everyone on our block knew me, and maybe thats why I always felt so safe. The first time it happened was with our servant. I called him Chacha Sadiq, he was around 40 years old. Althought he was a muslim, he wasn't shia, but he always respected our believes. He was like a family member to us and I used to respect him so much. He was the first person who ever sexually molested me, and not just once, but maybe three or four times. The second person was Fouji Bhai, idk why I called him that, but he was always another guy I looked up to, Fouji Bhai. Whenever Muharram came around he would guide me around, he used to hold one of the biggest Alams, and I always wanted to be like him, tall and strong enough to hold an Alam that big. One time I ran up to him on the street to say hi and he took me to his room which was right above the Imam Bargah. Although his extent of molesting me wasn't as explicit as Sadiq's, but I still new whatever he was doing was wrong. Later i faced countless occasions where the teenagers who were living at the Masjid to be part of some Matami Dasta made me feel them up. I was a kid but I always knew something was wrong.
Then when I turned 9 i moved to the US and slowly growing up I realized what had happened to me. This made me more religous and by the age of 13-14 I started praying five times a day. I started reading up on a lot of Islamic books and especially books on Karbala. This website became a part of my religious life for where it answered many questions and helped me share my passion for the Ahl-e-Bait. I guess recently I have realized that I am not attracted to women anymore, I am attracted to men. It makes me ashamed of myself, I can't look at myself in the mirror. Was this genetic? Was i born this way? How much part did nature vs nurture play? Was it because of all the things that had happened to me growing up?
I asked many Maulanas and even talked to my sister about this, everyone said pray to Allah, and there is no such thing as being gay. I did pray to Allah, I have been praying all my life, I havent done many bad things except little white lies. Then why is god punishing me for no good reason, why would god let such a thing happen to a little boy and then turn his life miserable when he is all grown up. Then one day I thought, maybe there is no god....there is no justice...
Whatever happened to me, nature or nurture, I didn't go out and make them happen, they happened to me, they happened to me in very religous places, by very 'religous' men. Where does that leave all religions? Where does that leave Islam?

(salam)

It is not possible to be born homosexual.

(wasalam)

Edited December 14, 2009 by Hussian

lion · December 14, 2009

I will respond to you brother in due time inshallah

whatsthetruth · December 14, 2009

It is not possible to be born homosexual.

its easy to say when you don't experience it first hand....how can you be so sure?

and i am not saying i was born homosexual...idk if i was...i can't be sure...

either i was born homosexual or the things that happened to me turned me this way...

you still don't answer my question but just make assumptions and throw down "unproven" facts from Islam

thats what every single maulana i have talked to has said too.......Islam also says theres no such thing as homosexuality

but i am a homosexual (althouth i never have and never will partake in any homo-sexual activity)

i am this because ever since puberty thats how i have felt...thats another reason i lose faith from religion because it contradicts with something that i experience everyday in my personal life

and u didnt have to bold ur answer..............................................................................................

Abu_Zayed · December 14, 2009

Salam Alikum dear brother,

First, I suggest to those who do not have anything constructive to contribute, to respect others and refrain from participating.

To the original poster, My professional background is related to some of the issues you brought up, and I hope this helps:

In my opinion, one of the main reasons your belief system seems to have crumbled is that it is based on materialistic rituals and things- I do not mean to offend, but this goes for the general Shia population. Idea of Muharram and iall its symbolism is really saddening, as it is ENTIRELY irrelevant to the events of Muharram. This is another topic entirely, but it is somewhat related to your problem because you put your trust and faith in people that were supposed to be worthy of it. And they were not, may God guide us all. Just to shed some light, I grew up in an Islamic "Shia" atmosphere as well, and 90% of the guys who participated in muharram events with a lot of 'passion', were absolute hoodlums. Muharram seems to be the season for these kind of people to rise...

Anyway, to be more specific, you grew up in an environment that, in your mind, you constructed to be the "truth" or right path- and as you grew up you found that it is absolutely not...in fact it has caused you great turmoil that isnt supposed to come with an Islamic wholesome environment...so you have somewhat,maybe subconsciously, "rebelled" against it all- not because you are gay or an unbeliever, but because you are expressing your anger and frustration by abandonment .

I hope you realize your idea of being religious growing up is anything but related to God and simply attached to earthly rituals that have little meaning. This is why you suddenly feel lost, because all you had was the physical aspect of worship. I encourage, and pray for you to truly study Islam--but first you have to rid yourself of any prejudices or biases. Don't relate actions to people (ex: praying makes you good, so and so prayed but did bad things, etc),but just study it for yourself.

Dedicate your time and energy to the study of TRUE Islam, but first teach yourself to study without biases! I promise you will find new strengths and understand your purpose. Remember one thing, the people who have abused you are absolutely not worth your time, your emotions or anger ... learn to forgive them. In your times of weakness you will find your truth strengths.

I am praying for you, and I applaud your courage in speaking truthfully about your beliefs. God bless you

salam

shoelace · December 14, 2009

First go and punch those [Edited Out] who did this immoral activity with innocent kids make sure they don't repeat it with any one else.

whatsthetruth · December 14, 2009

Salam Alikum dear brother,
First, I suggest to those who do not have anything constructive to contribute, to respect others and refrain from participating.
To the original poster, My professional background is related to some of the issues you brought up, and I hope this helps:
In my opinion, one of the main reasons your belief system seems to have crumbled is that it is based on materialistic rituals and things- I do not mean to offend, but this goes for the general Shia population. Idea of Muharram and iall its symbolism is really saddening, as it is ENTIRELY irrelevant to the events of Muharram. This is another topic entirely, but it is somewhat related to your problem because you put your trust and faith in people that were supposed to be worthy of it. And they were not, may God guide us all. Just to shed some light, I grew up in an Islamic "Shia" atmosphere as well, and 90% of the guys who participated in muharram events with a lot of 'passion', were absolute hoodlums. Muharram seems to be the season for these kind of people to rise...
Anyway, to be more specific, you grew up in an environment that, in your mind, you constructed to be the "truth" or right path- and as you grew up you found that it is absolutely not...in fact it has caused you great turmoil that isnt supposed to come with an Islamic wholesome environment...so you have somewhat,maybe subconsciously, "rebelled" against it all- not because you are gay or an unbeliever, but because you are expressing your anger and frustration by abandonment .
I hope you realize your idea of being religious growing up is anything but related to God and simply attached to earthly rituals that have little meaning. This is why you suddenly feel lost, because all you had was the physical aspect of worship. I encourage, and pray for you to truly study Islam--but first you have to rid yourself of any prejudices or biases. Don't relate actions to people (ex: praying makes you good, so and so prayed but did bad things, etc),but just study it for yourself.
Dedicate your time and energy to the study of TRUE Islam, but first teach yourself to study without biases! I promise you will find new strengths and understand your purpose. Remember one thing, the people who have abused you are absolutely not worth your time, your emotions or anger ... learn to forgive them. In your times of weakness you will find your truth strengths.
I am praying for you, and I applaud your courage in speaking truthfully about your beliefs. God bless you
salam

I agree with most of what you say, yes I did experience Islam in a more ritualistic way and the people who did all those things were not following Islam, but I followed Islam. I followed the rituals and i followed it spiritualy. I read the Quran numerous times, read the translation many times more, i always wanted to stick with Islam and me losing my faith did not just happen all of a sudden, i held on to it for a long time until i finally faced that fact that my life, the person that I am is a big contradiction towards Islam. What do you say about Islam and homosexuality? Everyone tells me that homosexuality does not exist and thats where I lose it all, because if i believe that too then i am lying to myself. it does exist and i used to pray to god every day to turn me straight. My question to everyone is, do you guys still believe that homosexuality doesn't exist?

Mehvish · December 14, 2009

Salam Alikum dear brother,
First, I suggest to those who do not have anything constructive to contribute, to respect others and refrain from participating.
To the original poster, My professional background is related to some of the issues you brought up, and I hope this helps:
In my opinion, one of the main reasons your belief system seems to have crumbled is that it is based on materialistic rituals and things- I do not mean to offend, but this goes for the general Shia population. Idea of Muharram and iall its symbolism is really saddening, as it is ENTIRELY irrelevant to the events of Muharram. This is another topic entirely, but it is somewhat related to your problem because you put your trust and faith in people that were supposed to be worthy of it. And they were not, may God guide us all. Just to shed some light, I grew up in an Islamic "Shia" atmosphere as well, and 90% of the guys who participated in muharram events with a lot of 'passion', were absolute hoodlums. Muharram seems to be the season for these kind of people to rise...

Everyone has a different way of commemorating the Tragedy of Karbala. That is actually what makes it so beautiful. Are all the rituals necessary? No, probably not - but if its a way of connecting to an event that took place 1400 years ago, then so be it. Its not for you to define what is "shia" and what is not based on the OPs background with traditional values. And in no way do these rituals have anything to do pedophiles being on the rise. Shia or religious pedophiles are not seasonal in their practices lol.

Anyway, to be more specific, you grew up in an environment that, in your mind, you constructed to be the "truth" or right path- and as you grew up you found that it is absolutely not...in fact it has caused you great turmoil that isnt supposed to come with an Islamic wholesome environment...so you have somewhat,maybe subconsciously, "rebelled" against it all- not because you are gay or an unbeliever, but because you are expressing your anger and frustration by abandonment .

Homosexual desires are never out of anger - they are a result of environment or genetics. His feelings are natural for anyone who has been sexually abused as a child.

I hope you realize your idea of being religious growing up is anything but related to God and simply attached to earthly rituals that have little meaning. This is why you suddenly feel lost, because all you had was the physical aspect of worship. I encourage, and pray for you to truly study Islam--but first you have to rid yourself of any prejudices or biases. Don't relate actions to people (ex: praying makes you good, so and so prayed but did bad things, etc),but just study it for yourself.
Dedicate your time and energy to the study of TRUE Islam, but first teach yourself to study without biases! I promise you will find new strengths and understand your purpose. Remember one thing, the people who have abused you are absolutely not worth your time, your emotions or anger ... learn to forgive them. In your times of weakness you will find your truth strengths.
I am praying for you, and I applaud your courage in speaking truthfully about your beliefs. God bless you
salam

This "problem" isn't going to go away after he "calms down" and sees the light of Islam. You're oversimplifying the problem here.

Homosexuality is nothing to be afraid of - its not like you consciously made that decision. Faith on the other hand is a conscious decision, make of it whatever you will; remember, you can be a hypocrite to everyone around you, but you can never be a hypocrite to yourself. I think thats the most important thing here - be true to yourself, and take things logically and one step at a time. Explore the world around you and don't be scared to make your own decisions about what you want to believe in, and whether you want to believe at all. This is your life, and you only live it once, it'd be a shame to spend it all in self denial. I think you'll find yourself a lot happier when you realize this.

The Islam you have been taught to believe in does not have to define you. You can still follow Islamic principles and be a good person while being gay at the same time.

Abu_Zayed · December 14, 2009

Salam,

To say homosexuality doesn't exist is fantasy, it exists and has existed for thousands of years. However, do you think it could be the shaytan luring you in that direction? Although I believe it exists, I don't believe you are destined to suffer in this life or that you are a contradiction to Islam. Why don't you see it as a challenge thrown your way or the shaytan convincing you so. We all know that, the more active homosexuals, the more he is satisfied.

I can't understand why people say homosexuality doesn't exist, with all the homosexuals in the world? Is is a natural thing? I don't think so. Were you born with it? No...does it exist? Yes, is it a challenge? yes...or maybe its a result of all your experiences.

My advice to you...don't be so quick to label yourself a homosexual or not, you can say you are upset or disturbed by the fact that you have homosexual tendencies, but once you label yourself you are almost tricking your mind into believing it.

I am certain you did not lose faith all the sudden, as you try to make sense of what goes on around you, you lose a bit by bit. But brother, sometimes we have to lose a lot to gain everything, to gain what truly matters. Have you heard the saying,when God loves a servant, he is faced with calamities? Ever wonder why? Because we are closest to God when we have a calamity..we pray with uttermost sincerity, we are constantly seeking out God...in fact it is one of the closest position we can be to God, so in a way, we are blessed to face challenges and calamities, because we achieve such high levels of closeness to our Lord. This is why I don't understand why people have rituals for Imam Hussayn's death and weep and create plays, how is it at all relevant to what happened? Why are we weeping for him- when it is he who is weeping for us and our current state?

Continue to challenge yourself with knowledge, God bless.

Abu_Zayed · December 14, 2009

Everyone has a different way of commemorating the Tragedy of Karbala. That is actually what makes it so beautiful. Are all the rituals necessary? No, probably not - but if its a way of connecting to an event that took place 1400 years ago, then so be it. Its not for you to define what is "shia" and what is not based on the OPs background with traditional values. And in no way do these rituals have anything to do pedophiles being on the rise. Shia or religious pedophiles are not seasonal in their practices lol.
Homosexual desires are never out of anger - they are a result of environment or genetics. His feelings are natural for anyone who has been sexually abused as a child.
This "problem" isn't going to go away after he "calms down" and sees the light of Islam. You're oversimplifying the problem here.
Homosexuality is nothing to be afraid of - its not like you consciously made that decision. Faith on the other hand is a conscious decision, make of it whatever you will; remember, you can be a hypocrite to everyone around you, but you can never be a hypocrite to yourself. I think thats the most important thing here - be true to yourself, and take things logically and one step at a time. Explore the world around you and don't be scared to make your own decisions about what you want to believe in, and whether you want to believe at all. This is your life, and you only live it once, it'd be a shame to spend it all in self denial. I think you'll find yourself a lot happier when you realize this.
The Islam you have been taught to believe in does not have to define you. You can still follow Islamic principles and be a good person while being gay at the same time.

Salam,

lol...I am not entirely sure why you seem upset. Maybe I can clarify? I oversimplify because I work full time and have a family. Also,because I am on shiachat? My aim was to get the brother started at a certain point where he could take it from...not to undermine anything.

Also, where exactly did I indicate muharam rituals are the reason shia pedophiles are on the rise??? How exactly did you make that connection, and then accuse me of it? It's kind of funny, but anyway. Allow me to expand on this, maybe I wasn't clear! First, I don't appreciate your attacking on my views, but I'll share them anyway. I don't find anything beautiful about the ritualistic nature of muharram ceremonies, why? Not because I think I'm too good, but because it is HEAVILY deviated the point of muharram for MANY people (focus: not all, but many!). What I meant by the season is, throughout my years, I see people during ceremonies year after year participate fully, cry weep kill themselves---and go back to the exact same rubbish they did before muharram and each year, what is so beautiful about that? I wanted the OP to be clear that just because someone is dedicated/participates, we shouldn't assume they are a result of the pure message of Ashura. Do you see my point? Once the OP sees to seperate the actions of the individuals from the events they participated in- it is a step in the right direction. If you would like to start a thread about muharram practices, I'm all for discussing it. Up to you.

Again, you go assuming. In fact, you assumed something I said which I didn't, and go back to saying exactly what I had said? lol You said homosexuality isnt result of anger, but of his environment...ok, and his environment is exactly what made him angry? Angry does not mean a physical or emotional state, it very well is also subconscious. I know very well that his feelings are absolutely natural for anyone abused as a child......like I said, this is my profession.

To the original poster: I am sure you know this, but sexual abuse is extremely high among both females and males (people assume it only happens to girls) of course the degrees tend to vary.

Mehvish I will need some clarification on your last statement, that the OP can be Muslim and gay at the same time? My assumption here is that the gay you recommend isn't physical but a mental state?

salam

Irishman · December 14, 2009

It takes a lot of courage to share your darkest secrets even when you are anonymous. You relive the past that you try to block in your head every passing moment of your life. I am an eighteen year old male, and here I am, back on the forum where I once praised Islam and shared nohas, the place where I shared my pain for the sacrifices that were made for Islam. Muharram is coming up, and for every year of my life I have been fully devoted to it. I grew up in a corner-lot house, on one side we faced a Shia Masjid, on the other side was an Imam Bargah. The images of these places are painted in my head and I will never forget them. I was raised in this house till I was nine and every Muharram i spent all my days at the Masjid for male majilis and at the Imam Bargah for the female majilis. I had done almost anything a momin does for Muharram by the time I was 9. From decorating a Taboot to carrying an Alam to doing Zanjeer ka matam at the age of five. My mother used to tell me to calm down whenever Muharram came around, she was always worried that I would get exhausted. Some of my earliest childhood memories consist of Julooses and Zuljenahs and huge Alams that I one day wished to hold. Up until I was 9, every 8th Muharram my family put together an Alam and I took it out to the juloos that passed the front of my house and concluded at the Masjid. This was based on a manat my mother made before I was born. My family used to give out milk mixed with rooh-afzah and almonds. After I turned 9 our family came to the US and we still took out an Alam in the local Imam Bargah and passed out the rooh-afzah flavored drinks. I am writing this because I have lost all faith in god and maybe this year would be the first that I don't take out an Alam.
Let's go back to when I was 5, 6, or 7, living in my neighborhood that seemed so religious. Everyone knew me by my name, I was the little kid loved by all the people at the masjid and the imam bargah. The women at the imam bargah knew me, the men at the masjid knew me, everyone on our block knew me, and maybe thats why I always felt so safe. The first time it happened was with our servant. I called him Chacha Sadiq, he was around 40 years old. Althought he was a muslim, he wasn't shia, but he always respected our believes. He was like a family member to us and I used to respect him so much. He was the first person who ever sexually molested me, and not just once, but maybe three or four times. The second person was Fouji Bhai, idk why I called him that, but he was always another guy I looked up to, Fouji Bhai. Whenever Muharram came around he would guide me around, he used to hold one of the biggest Alams, and I always wanted to be like him, tall and strong enough to hold an Alam that big. One time I ran up to him on the street to say hi and he took me to his room which was right above the Imam Bargah. Although his extent of molesting me wasn't as explicit as Sadiq's, but I still new whatever he was doing was wrong. Later i faced countless occasions where the teenagers who were living at the Masjid to be part of some Matami Dasta made me feel them up. I was a kid but I always knew something was wrong.
Then when I turned 9 i moved to the US and slowly growing up I realized what had happened to me. This made me more religous and by the age of 13-14 I started praying five times a day. I started reading up on a lot of Islamic books and especially books on Karbala. This website became a part of my religious life for where it answered many questions and helped me share my passion for the Ahl-e-Bait. I guess recently I have realized that I am not attracted to women anymore, I am attracted to men. It makes me ashamed of myself, I can't look at myself in the mirror. Was this genetic? Was i born this way? How much part did nature vs nurture play? Was it because of all the things that had happened to me growing up?
I asked many Maulanas and even talked to my sister about this, everyone said pray to Allah, and there is no such thing as being gay. I did pray to Allah, I have been praying all my life, I havent done many bad things except little white lies. Then why is god punishing me for no good reason, why would god let such a thing happen to a little boy and then turn his life miserable when he is all grown up. Then one day I thought, maybe there is no god....there is no justice...
Whatever happened to me, nature or nurture, I didn't go out and make them happen, they happened to me, they happened to me in very religous places, by very 'religous' men. Where does that leave all religions? Where does that leave Islam?

The fact that this happened to you in very "religious" places by very "religious" men does not reflect on Islam. The reality of sexual abuse is that is it almost always carried out by people we trust in authority positions. We tend to trust our pastors, our priests, and our imams with the sacred task of enriching our children and caring for them because we believe that in entrusting our children to these men of God we are submitting our trust ultimately to Him.

Trust can lead to abuse. Is that necessarily always the case? Absolutely not and I am sure there are members on this forum that can advocate the moral decency of religious figures in their lives, but I am sure there are many more (such as yourself) who have found themselves betrayed by a man and felt betrayed by God as a result.

I am concerned about a few things here, namely the role your sexual abuse has to play in your homosexuality. Being sexually abused has its definite implications and can contribute significantly to how you view your sexuality but it does not necessarily have to define you. You are only a product of what you have been subject to and perhaps time, healing, and professional help are essential to understanding YOUR sexual inclinations and desires rather than the sexual desires of the vile men who stole your innocence and molded your sexual identity. Please do PM me if you want more information about where to get this kind of help (since you are located in the United States) because it is critical that you are able to separate what happened to you from who you are.

If you are gay this is something that will involve a lot more variables. You will get a lot of reactions like the ones you received on this thread, reaction from people who believe they know you and can define you because they have some sort of divine knowledge that allows them to do so. Screw them. Don't let them define you. You can't choose whether or not you are gay and no matter how many times they pretend they know they answers.. they simply do not. You won't ever be able to get across to them and you won't ever be able to make these people understand so I suggest you stop caring about whether or not homosexuality exists. Want proof that homosexuality exists? Go to san franfreggincisco.. or as brother Mahdaviat/Rubaiyat (one of the guys with the Iranian Flag wrapped around his eyes) suggested.. go see a mardi gras parade!

All tasteless jokes aside though.. this is something that is strictly between you and Allah. Find out what this means for you and your future and embrace it. He does not give us a test we cannot pass, nor does he put us on this earth to deny who we are and live a life of self hatred and loathing where our nights are spent praying he had not created us so differently. Love who you are because He loves you too.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Zahratul_Islam

individualist · December 14, 2009

@ WTT

I guess it boils down to this question:

Do you believe God exists? Yes/No?

Forget about Shiism, Islam, Quran, etc and try to answer that question first.

If the answer is no, then here's another question:

Do you think that we, humans, are merely huge clumps of atoms? We're just matter? We're just protons/neutrons/electrons?

TheHealer · December 14, 2009

Homosexual desires are never out of anger - they are a result of ............ genetics.

I am absolutely dumb folded, by this surge in this absolute stupidity of linking genetics with homosexual behaviour. Genes are in no way, i reiterate NO WAY, linked to homosexuality, not even mutations in genes for that matter. I am just flabergasted by this [Edited Out] myth, that too finding its way on shiachat.

To the OP, listen man, i will be honest to the point of being blunt..BUT rest assured i will be honest...Dont think you are the victim here, you are the transgressor IF you in any way feel what you feel about men and all. Stop pretending to your self that religion betrayed you. After all they say Yazeed laaieen , was a muslim, .........ofcourse he was not, i hope you get my point...........And since when were the beloved of God meant to have an easy ride in the World ? What is the whole lesson of Karbala , Imam Hussayn [as] was after all the most beloved of Allah................. So stop thinking if you are religious and a believer that life will throw rose pettals on you..........God has unique ways of testing his creation, remember that always.

Secondly, you have your whole life in front of you.................stop feeling sorry for your self, i am dead sure you are a brave man, dead sure i am, so pick up your pieces, start praying five times a day, read Quran, pray to Almighty to guide you..............go out and play some soccer man...........get your life going, dont sit alone, it will get you depressed, be with your parents and siblings...............study hard at school, do your homework in time, aim higher in life man, ...............and tell your parents about those rascals who molested you, make sure you see those rascals publicly humiliated, after all, you dont want them to do it to any more young fellows.............make sure your family informs the masjid and imam bargaha about those filthy rascals............make sure it doesnt happen again to any one.

Dont tell about your weird feeling of { liking men ...in an unnatural way....you get what i am saying..?] to your parents, trust me , you dont want to be telling them..............i am dead sure, the brave man that you are, you can sort this out yourself. And stop lying to yourself about yourself............you are not homosexual ,plain and simple. GET THIS IN YOUR BRAIN NOW. You are a muhhib of the Ahlul Bayt{AS} , stop shaytan from destroying you NOW............you can do it, i am dead sure.............so close this computer of yours, stand up, go and do wudhu and perform two rakah of prayers NOW, and seek forgiveness and strength from Allah {swt} ....................start your new life now..................

May Allah guide and Strengthen you.............

Wasallam..................and stand up now and go pray NOW.

whatsthetruth · December 14, 2009

i don't want to go off topic here but i have looked around on muslim peoples responses to homosexuality and many of them blame it on the western upbringing. What i said about the whole upbringing in a religious enviroment was to let you guys know where i come from. My family is really religous, I am the only child, therefore to make my parents happy i have to get married and have kids. When I say i am homosexual i mean I am homosexual. I cannot change that, because physically and emotionally i feel attracted towards men, not women. And no i am not making shaytan happy by being a homosexual, because there is nothing i can do about it except not involve myself in sexual activities. And i have never involved my self in any sexual acts with anyone. I am a virgin and will stay a virgin till I am married to a woman. I will do all this for my parents, the ones who made sacrifices for me and my life, but why believe in a god who doesn't believe in you? why believe in a religion that "says" people like me don't exist. What if there is no life after this? what is evolution is true? I say this because Islam takes such a hard stance again homosexuality. It doesn't mention people that feel "homosexual" on the inside like me but still follow islam and stay away from sin. Thats what i have been doing till this point.

To Fahim,

I don't say religion betrayed me, I said all this happened to me in a religous setting. The only reason I am losing my faith is because I am homosexual (sexually attracted to men), and Islam says people like me don't exist. And man I cannot even tell my parents about those people, my parents have gone through alot, I cannot put them through more. And I realize my whole life is in front of me, I dont like to think about this at all, but some days it just eats u up. Some days u can't not think about who you are. Some days you have to face yourself. I am ashamed of myself, no one except my sister knows about this. And i did pray until now, and i did follow Islam until tonight when I just couldn't take it anymore. Why should i put it in my head that i don't feel attracted towards men when its true? Why should i lie to myself? isnt that unhealthy? Shaytan isnt destroying me because I am not commiting any sins. This is how I feel on the inside.

To individualist.

I do believe there is a higher power, but im losing my faith in Islam.

Edited December 14, 2009 by whatsthetruth

MissShiaMuslim · December 14, 2009

Salams brother.

Im not here to give you an ear bashing, and call you rude things and say what you are doing is wrong. What you feel, and what you are "doing" is what you know, in your mind, and in your heart, so i cant point the finger at you and put the blame on you. Besides, everything happens under Allah's will.. right?

Im simply here to give you advice. You obviously want advice, and help, otherwise you wouldn't of posted this on here.

First of all, I'll tell you my point of view. I believe this is Haram but im not saying that Homosexuality doesnt exist, thats like saying Shayton doesnt exist because we cant see him. We dont know what in peoples mind's and whats in their hearts, i have a friend that is a homosexual, and i class him a very good friend, you no less of a human then I am. But, i don't encourage your thoughts and "back you up". Homosexuality is agaisnt my religion and i choose not to go "that way". Not saying i could choose mentally, but you get what im saying... right?

I knew a friend, she is a Muslim, and she use to get sexual thoughts both about women and men, so you could class her a "bi-sexual". She couldnt control these thoughts, she dreamt about it, and day-dreamed. She was scared, because her family would totally disown her, as well as the Muslim community around her. That was all she knew, being a Muslim, and these thoughts she was having, was new and it scary to her. At the time, i wasnt a Muslim, i as a .. "agnostic", i advised her to pray to whoever she prayed too, even talk to a girl, see if she "falls inlove", if she doesnt then it was a"faze". She did so, talked to a few girls, and she didnt find anything interesting in it. Now, she thanks me, and Allah(of course), for helping her find her way.

Your not alone in this situation, im sure alot of people get confused in their life, and find that they are not "the norm".

But please, don't give up in this beautiful religion. Don't let these morons that call themselves Muslims put you off this religion. I am so sorry for your past, and im sorry that there are people like that these days.

Please just explore your surroundings, test and fail things. You'll find your way. And no, im not pushing you to do the Haram, but as a human to human, im being realistic. Praying to God alone probably wouldnt help you "feel" any different, yea it might help seek guidance in Allah, but on a realistic term, as myself being a revert i tried and tested many religions and lifestyles, you won't find your "place" in the world, and for the mostpart, your heart, if you dont try and test things.

Just be totally selfish right now, not about your family, but you. Do what you think is best, and if you find that homosexuality doesnt work for you, then hey, it isn't for you.

You always have a brother and sister here for you.

Salams.

TheHealer · December 14, 2009

To Fahim,
I don't say religion betrayed me, I said all this happened to me in a religous setting. The only reason I am losing my faith is because I am homosexual (sexually attracted to men), and Islam says people like me don't exist. And man I cannot even tell my parents about those people, my parents have gone through alot, I cannot put them through more. And I realize my whole life is in front of me, I dont like to think about this at all, but some days it just eats u up. Some days u can't not think about who you are. Some days you have to face yourself. I am ashamed of myself, no one except my sister knows about this. And i did pray until now, and i did follow Islam until tonight when I just couldn't take it anymore. Why should i put it in my head that i don't feel attracted towards men when its true? Why should i lie to myself? isnt that unhealthy? Shaytan isnt destroying me because I am not commiting any sins. This is how I feel on the inside.
To individualist.
I do believe there is a higher power, but im losing my faith in Islam.

Come on man.............when has Islam denied homosexual behaviour existed ? What about people of Lut ? Islam makes it ample clear, that Homosexual behaviour is transgression, plain and simple...............Take it like this, Islam commands people to refrain from Evil among within their own selves first, Jihad e Akhbar, man....

And come on ,being a man, how can you like men in THAT way....................just get it outa your mind. You are just in denial right now, to the point of being timid, ...........be a man Man.

Deep down you know its not right , you are just not listening to your self................the point is you somehow are having this delusion about liking men in an unnatural way. The truth is , you are not listening to your REAL self....................BE a Man and kill this shaytan putting thoughts in your brain. Come on NOW.

individualist · December 14, 2009

@ WTT

What if there is no life after this? what is evolution is true?

I believe evolution is true and I say so what? After all, everything in this universe is merely stardust (everything goes back to the Periodic Table)... but for sophisticated forms of life (man and fairly inteliigent animals) our make up cannot be simply atoms...

Atheists believe we're just atoms.. the question is: how can atoms become alive? how can a clump of atoms be aware of its existence? There is a non-material element missing here, we theists usually refer to as the soul.

I do believe there is a higher power, but im losing my faith in Islam.

A higher power? Did this higher power create you? If this higher power created humanity, you think it didn't care to communicate with it?

By the way, I encourage you to question your faith, every aspect of it, but while doing so be earnestly interested in finding the truth.

TheHealer · December 14, 2009

. Besides, everything happens under Allah's will.. right?
Salams.

With due respect, you are damn wrong. This is the view of the Asharies{ moden day sunnis} that everything happens because Allah wills it so...........We are the followers of the Aal E Muhammad [as].............we believe in the PATH IN BETWEEN THE TWO PATHS....as was explained by the Imams of Guidance{AS] ....That we have FREE WILL. The evil people commit is because they Choose to...........otherwise Allah would be unjust [naudibillah] to punish them..............get your facts right. WE THE SHIA OF ALI{as} are neither Mutazillah nor Asharies.................

Liggel · December 14, 2009

Come on man.............when has Islam denied homosexual behaviour existed ? What about people of Lut ? Islam makes it ample clear, that Homosexual behaviour is transgression, plain and simple...............Take it like this, Islam commands people to refrain from Evil among within their own selves first, Jihad e Akhbar, man....
And come on ,being a man, how can you like men in THAT way....................just get it outa your mind. You are just in denial right now, to the point of being timid, ...........be a man Man.
Deep down you know its not right , you are just not listening to your self................the point is you somehow are having this delusion about liking men in an unnatural way. The truth is , you are not listening to your REAL self....................BE a Man and kill this shaytan putting thoughts in your brain. Come on NOW.

Be a man man? Are you freggin kidding me? That is your advice? Your views are clearly fueled by little more than homophobia and that (coupled with your complete lack of knowledge on this matter) makes it hard to take you seriously.

You don't know what the truth is.. all you know is that reading about his experiences and the possibility that this man might be gay makes you extremely uncomfortable. Either you are compensating with this whole "be a man man!" bs or you are just really a blithering imbecile. I almost hope its the former.

Let me make a few things super clear to you.

1) kicking a ball around is not going to make this guy any less gay

2) Telling him to be a real man won't make him any less gay.. even if you type it in caps

3) You should refrain from giving advice until you educate yourself further (I know I know, that defeats the entire purpose of posting on shiachat)

Edited December 14, 2009 by Zahratul_Islam

whatsthetruth · December 14, 2009

Come on man.............when has Islam denied homosexual behaviour existed ? What about people of Lut ? Islam makes it ample clear, that Homosexual behaviour is transgression, plain and simple...............Take it like this, Islam commands people to refrain from Evil among within their own selves first, Jihad e Akhbar, man....
And come on ,being a man, how can you like men in THAT way....................just get it outa your mind. You are just in denial right now, to the point of being timid, ...........be a man Man.
Deep down you know its not right , you are just not listening to your self................the point is you somehow are having this delusion about liking men in an unnatural way. The truth is , you are not listening to your REAL self....................BE a Man and kill this shaytan putting thoughts in your brain. Come on NOW.

Islam has not denied homosexual 'behavior' and Islam says that its the shaytan pushing people that way. Islam says there are no homosexual people, just homosexual behaviors, meaning men following shaytan. Islam says that truly no one can be attracted to men on the inside ever since they became adults. And how can you question me how i feel on the inside if I have felt like this all my life, be a man and kill this shaytan ? ok you tell me how to kill this shaytan. I have been praying five times a day all my life and following religion and not doing anything bad, tell me how to kill this shaytan. TRUST ME man if I could kill this 'shaytan' I would, theres nothing more in the world that i want than to be 'normal' I dont put this thoughts in my brain. This is the kind of behavior that i got from maulanas and such that made me turn away from Islam. And how do you know I am not listneing to my REAL self? I am not in denial or delusional right now, I was before when i tried to force myself into thinkning that nothings wrong with me.. You feel attracted to women on the inside...just think if you felt that way about men and there was no way in hell changing that. That's how i feel right now...

whatsthetruth · December 14, 2009

@ WTT
I believe evolution is true and I say so what? After all, everything in this universe is merely stardust (everything goes back to the Periodic Table)... but for sophisticated forms of life (man and fairly inteliigent animals) our make up cannot be simply atoms...
Atheists believe we're just atoms.. the question is: how can atoms become alive? how can a clump of atoms be aware of its existence? There is a non-material element missing here, we theists usually refer to as the soul.
A higher power? Did this higher power create you? If this higher power created humanity, you think it didn't care to communicate with it?
By the way, I encourage you to question your faith, every aspect of it, but while doing so be earnestly interested in finding the truth.

I am still confused if a higher power exists, but lately i have been reading up on the consciousness of man. There are atoms alive, animals, some of whom aren't aware of their existence. Maybe because they don't have enough brains to realize that they exist...but i don't believe a 100% in that either. I have been following one religion my whole life and now that i am an adult it just contradicts with ME. My religion says that what i feel inside is a sin and is caused by shaytan and i should defeat shaytan by just praying......should i live a life like this? Why would god make a clump of atoms to be defected and then communicate with humanity and tell them that this defected "clump of atoms" doesn't exist?

Be a man man? Are you freggin kidding me? That is your advice? Your views are clearly fueled by little more than homophobia and that (coupled with your complete lack of knowledge on this matter) makes it hard to take you seriously.
You don't know what the truth is.. all you know is that reading about his experiences and the possibility that this man might be gay makes you extremely uncomfortable. Either you are compensating with this whole "be a man man!" bs or you are just really a blithering imbecile. I almost hope its the former.
Let me make a few things super clear to you.
1) kicking a ball around is not going to make this guy any less gay
2) Telling him to be a real man won't make him any less gay.. even if you type it in caps
3) You should refrain from giving advice until you educate yourself further (I know I know, that defeats the entire purpose of posting on shiachat)

how can i contact you?

MissShiaMuslim · December 14, 2009

With due respect, you are damn wrong. This is the view of the Asharies{ moden day sunnis} that everything happens because Allah wills it so...........We are the followers of the Aal E Muhammad [as].............we believe in the PATH IN BETWEEN THE TWO PATHS....as was explained by the Imams of Guidance{AS] ....That we have FREE WILL. The evil people commit is because they Choose to...........otherwise Allah would be unjust [naudibillah] to punish them..............get your facts right. WE THE SHIA OF ALI{as} are neither Mutazillah nor Asharies.................

Excuse me? I am not wrong, you are not the judger, and not the one to tell me who is right and wrong.

Isnt it true that when we are born, it isnt all written down what is going to happen, who we will marry, how many kids etc. And your telling me, that Allah didnt know this? Psht, yes we have free will, we dont know which path we are following, but still, everything happens for a reason, and under Allahs will, he has complete control!!

So i dont understand how your saying that im wrong?

Thats really confusing.

individualist · December 14, 2009

I am still confused if a higher power exists, but lately i have been reading up on the consciousness of man. There are atoms alive, animals, some of whom aren't aware of their existence. Maybe because they don't have enough brains to realize that they exist...but i don't believe a 100% in that either. I have been following one religion my whole life and now that i am an adult it just contradicts with ME. My religion says that what i feel inside is a sin and is caused by shaytan and i should defeat shaytan by just praying......should i live a life like this? Why would god make a clump of atoms to be defected and then communicate with humanity and tell them that this defected "clump of atoms" doesn't exist?

I personally think your being gay is so TRIVIAL a sin compared to your rejection of the Quran... and your rejection of the Quran also pales in comparison to your rejection of God...

Your believing in God takes precedence over anything... if homosexulaity is a sin you cannot part with, then so be it! I don't understand why you are making it an all or nothing issue.

Of course I cannot lecture you on homosexulaity whether it's natural or not because I have never experienced it.. but guess what? I am heterosexual, in my early 30's, and I am still a virgin... this takes patience too.

anyway, God never said that homosexulaity does NOT exist, He merely said that it's unnatural... surprisingly though, if you read the Quran, homesexulaity was NEVER prescribed a punishment, unlike fornication/aduterly which is prescribed the punishment of flogging (side point: stoning is a LIE! The Quran says punishment for adultery is flogging and ONLY if it were public).

TheHealer · December 14, 2009

Islam has not denied homosexual 'behavior' and Islam says that its the shaytan pushing people that way. Islam says there are no homosexual people, just homosexual behaviors, meaning men following shaytan. Islam says that truly no one can be attracted to men on the inside ever since they became adults. And how can you question me how i feel on the inside if I have felt like this all my life, be a man and kill this shaytan ? ok you tell me how to kill this shaytan. I have been praying five times a day all my life and following religion and not doing anything bad, tell me how to kill this shaytan. TRUST ME man if I could kill this 'shaytan' I would, theres nothing more in the world that i want than to be 'normal' I dont put this thoughts in my brain. This is the kind of behavior that i got from maulanas and such that made me turn away from Islam. And how do you know I am not listneing to my REAL self? I am not in denial or delusional right now, I was before when i tried to force myself into thinkning that nothings wrong with me.. You feel attracted to women on the inside...just think if you felt that way about men and there was no way in hell changing that. That's how i feel right now...

Ok, see, firstly try to convince yourself about it, that your inner feelings for men are unnatural, try and inculcate in your self the definition of what you think is right and whats wrong.

Secondly, think about the implication of your current situation , not only in this life but the here after, seriously think about it.

Thirdly, think deeply, are you repulsed by women ? If not, why not give it a chance, whats the harm in that.

Fourthly, take the above three considerations, and make a pact with yourself to live with it atleast for a week. You ought to give it a chance, try to read Quran, prayers too, after all they wont hurt you.....................remember first you make the habbits, then the habbits make you. Whats wrong in AGAIN giving it a chance............

Lets see where we reach, but give it a chance man,

individualist · December 14, 2009

Excuse me? I am not wrong, you are not the judger, and not the one to tell me who is right and wrong.
Isnt it true that when we are born, it isnt all written down what is going to happen, who we will marry, how many kids etc. And your telling me, that Allah didnt know this? Psht, yes we have free will, we dont know which path we are following, but still, everything happens for a reason, and under Allahs will, he has complete control!!
So i dont understand how your saying that im wrong?
Thats really confusing.

I guess fahim is confusing "pre-knowledge" and "pre-destiny".

Sehnsucht · December 14, 2009

Dear bro,

my heart goes out to you and I applaud your courage at being able to come forward with what you've faced. I can't even begin to imagine the kind of confusion and anguish you must be experiencing right now... You have my deepest support and prayers.

As far as homosexuality, it absolutely does exist in that it is as real as the feelings behind it are; and feelings do have a reality, albeit an intangible one that can hardly be proven unless you're the one experiencing them. The question is, why do these feelings exist, and as a result of what? Islam tells us that it is not in the fitrat of a human being to be sexually attracted to the same gender ((although note that homosexual thoughts are not punished, only actions are)), so where do these feelings come from?

I think it's impossible to dismiss the correlation between victims of sexual abuse and incidence of homosexuality. A staggering percentage of people who identify themselves as homosexuals have had childhood experiences much like yours- situations where intercourse was forced upon them when they couldn't even understand what it was- all they could understand was the way their body was responding; with pain, but also likely with involuntary pleasure which the body's most animalistic faculties can cause a person to feel simply as a response to sex, regardless of the context. It's that pleasure, over which victims have no more control than the rape itself, that I think in part leaves so many feeling confused, guilty, and disgusted with themselves. If you felt yourself feeling pleasure for even a moment, you might then have wondered to yourself: why would I feel this way, unless being attracted to men and sexually interested in them is a part of who I am? Sorry in advance for being crude here, but- the truth is, perverse men throughout history have tried doing the dirty with animals and found themselves turned on even then- but just because the human body is capable of responding pleasurably in response to intercourse with a goat, does not mean that goats and men are meant to be together- it simply proves that that aspect of us works like a machine and has virtually nothing to do with the spiritual reality of love.

Another reason I think sexual abuse can lead to self-identifications of homosexuality is because aligning your lifestyle and your identity with what happened to you is a defense mechanism that gives you a feeling of control. You did not have control over the abuse inflicted on you and it was among the most psychologically damaging things that could happen to you as a child, therefore you grow up to consider putting yourself into situations similar to what you experienced then- male+male intercourse- only this time, you are at last able to add the element of control that you lacked in your vulnerable times as a child.

This is a trend sometimes seen in young girls who are sexually abused by their fathers or other male adults... they often grow up to pursue partners much older than themselves, with the same domineering qualities and many of the same tendencies (ie. alcoholism) as the men who abused them. In these cases, too, the girls are looking for belated affirmation by repeating the situations that happened to them, but under circumstances that make them feel like they have a choice, and like the respect these chosen partners give them can make up for the respect their abusers never did... It is unbelievably painful to confront the possibility that the men who abused them did not do it because they loved and cared about them and wanted to show them this- but rather that they were psychologically disturbed individuals who grossly took advantage of them and committed the worst offenses possible against them- so they try to run from that possibility by finding men like their abusers to assure themselves that their abusers could've loved them. The truth will always be, though, that real love would NEVER violate a person's body or heart, and evil people come in all sorts of packages- some of them can be gentle, trustworthy, loving, kind, etc etc.- but that does NOT excuse the wrongness of their actions, and it does not make it okay or less bad for them to commit abuse, and it does not lessen their guilt.

A final reason sexual abuse might lead many people to think of themselves as homosexuals is because it's a way for victims to soften the terror of what has actually happened to them. It would be upsetting to the point of total madness to have to accept, as a child, that somebody you loved, and cared about, and trusted, could have done the most wrong and hurtful thing humanly possible to you- and in fact, accepting that you're a homosexual can be easier than accepting that you were sexually abused and seeing it for what it really was.

So many victims distort what really happened by convincing themselves that the abuse was their fault, that their abuser was a good person who loved them, or that the abuse wasn't so bad because a part of them was orientated to enjoy it. But see the situation for what it really was... your sexual identity was not independently formed at that tender age; any sexual feelings a child has are purely physiological phenomena that children do not understand or have a use for until the passage of time and maturity. You were not given the chance to wait and find out... your sexual inclinations were molded by abuse, not your own free will. If you had been assaulted by women rather than men, you likely would've developed an unhealthy attraction toward harmful women instead; if it had been an alien, you might've ended up attracted to aliens, and so on. The point is, your attraction was shaped by what happened to you, not what you decided, and it could've gone any direction had the situations been different. What you need to realize, then, is this-

you are a spiritual being much more than you are a physical being, and your sexual attractions do not determine who you are any more than the texture of your skin or the color of your eyes- because none of these things were decided for you; some were genetics, some brute circumstance. You are not simply/unquestionably a gay person and your sexual attractions do not define you- you are a young man who experienced repeated sexual abuse that may have inclined you toward becoming interested in men, because this was the nature of formative interactions beyond your control- but you are not only that. You are also an incredible warrior of a human being who has struggled so hard to keep his faith- fighting that ultimate jihaad amid situations most of us can't even imagine- and far stronger than most people I know. You're not just a sexual being so don't let that conundrum alone preoccupy you; you can also be a student, an artist, a writer, a soccer player, a pilot, and so on... being gay or straight is not the only thing, it's one very miniscule quality among an infinite number of others. You've also never gotten to be with a woman... don't be alarmed if you've never met a girl who interested you; some people search a lifetime before someone catches their eye, so don't close the door on the female half of the human race just yet. And if you're worried, deep down inside, that a woman wouldn't want to be with you because of what you've been through and the doubts you've had, don't be... if every 'perfectly straight' guy was as sincere as you, the wives of the world would be much happier women.

I know, at the end of the day, you probably feel extremely lonely, and might also be inclined to believe that you're a homosexual because most guys don't go through the sexual confusion that you've experienced, so you might think that this confusion is absolute and irrefutable evidence that you aren't like the others. But the reason the average guy doesn't have to face the questions you have to face is not because he's straight and you're gay, it's because you have had experiences with being molested as a child and the average guy hasn't, so he doesn't even have a context in which to imagine the issues and attractions that are plaguing you.

In summary, it's okay to question, it's okay to doubt, it's okay to consider...

but more than anything, it's okay to let yourself feel sadness, and anger, and wonder why this happened to you and what the hell was wrong with the monsters who hurt you. Blame them, scream at them, accept what they did, don't put yourself through denial or self-hatred or misplaced guilt... know that none of it was your fault, and know that God loves you very very much. The fact that you've tried so hard, all these years, to maintain your faith even though you've been through so much is absolutely mind-blowing. I could never have that kind of faith, I don't know anyone who could survive as you have... there's gotta be one heck of a special place in heaven for an amazing soul like yours.

You have suffered, and suffered, and suffered, but you can also triumph. Please don't give up on yourself. Even if you end up shaking your head and feeling convinced that you can't change your feelings of attraction, that's okay. You're still a wonderful being in my eyes, and I am just a flawed human being... imagine how precious you may very well be to God, who has 70 times the mercy of the most superior human beings, and an infinite amount of love to give. Please know that God did not want this to happen to you, and He did not cause it or stand by and watch- He gave human beings free will- free will that allows us to love each other, to serve each other, to do brilliant beyond brilliant things for our fellow human beings- but with all the good things we are capable of have to come the bad; the good could not exist without the darkness- so we are equally capable of harming, and taking advantage of, and destroying others. I am so sorry that you had to be on the receiving end of so much bad... you did not deserve it, and it did not have to be you, and those filthy goddamned [Edited Out]s will be punished for choosing you to harm- but please know that you are equally entitled to be on the receiving end of the world's good; let yourself move on and live peacefully and insh'Allah you will experience the happiness you deserve after so much hardship. You've been hurt, but you can also be loved and healed and put back together.

shoelace · December 14, 2009

OKAY LISTEN TO THIS NOW....DO NOT F@# ARROUND CRYING AGAINST ISLAM OR Allah(i am typing in caps to put this stupid arguement to end once at a time)

YOU ARE 18 YEAR OLD AND NOW YOU NEED TO GET MARRRIED TO SATISFY YOUR SEXUAL URGES BUT AS FOR SOME REASON YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO GET MARRIED AND BEING IN SEXUAL ACTIVITY WITH MEN IN YOUR PAST YOU HAVE JUST STARTED THINKING YOU LIKE MEN OVER WOMEN,ONCE YOU GET MARRIED EVERY THING WILL BE ALRIGHT.

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HOMOSEXUALITY ITS ALL [Edited Out] FROM SHAYTAAN TO CHEAT SON OF ADAM WITH USELESS ARGUMENTS AND TO DIVERT THEM FROM Allah.

MissShiaMuslim · December 14, 2009

I think that we need to stop the negativity. & yes, thinking about homosexuality, is a Sin.

But screaming and shouting is discouraging to people. Take things step by step, try women, (WE ARENT THAT BAD LOL), and see how you go.

Dont dismiss things, please brother.

When you die, your jdgement isn my judgment, but i fear for you.

Just try the "norm" or whatever that is, please. For the Sake of Allah, because we all know you still believe, deep down, just your thoughts dont match, but try to match, because Islam is the peace and beauty of the world, you may not have seen this beauty yet.

Give it a try

Salams.

Edited December 14, 2009 by MissShiaMuslim

whatsthetruth · December 14, 2009

I personally think your being gay is so TRIVIAL a sin compared to your rejection of the Quran... and your rejection of the Quran also pales in comparison to your rejection of God...
Your believing in God takes precedence over anything... if homosexulaity is a sin you cannot part with, then so be it! I don't understand why you are making it an all or nothing issue.
Of course I cannot lecture you on homosexulaity whether it's natural or not because I have never experienced it.. but guess what? I am heterosexual, in my early 30's, and I am still a virgin... this takes patience too.
anyway, God never said that homosexulaity does NOT exist, He merely said that it's unnatural... surprisingly though, if you read the Quran, homesexulaity was NEVER prescribed a punishment, unlike fornication/aduterly which is prescribed the punishment of flogging (side point: stoning is a LIE! The Quran says punishment for adultery is flogging and ONLY if it were public).

what about the people of Lut? Everyone has told me that homosexuality is one of the biggest sins of all...in Iran anyone commiting homosexual acts is killed. and yeah it is unnatural anyone would say that (because in the end sex=reproduction)

Ok, see, firstly try to convince yourself about it, that your inner feelings for men are unnatural, try and inculcate in your self the definition of what you think is right and whats wrong.
Secondly, think about the implication of your current situation , not only in this life but the here after, seriously think about it.
Thirdly, think deeply, are you repulsed by women ? If not, why not give it a chance, whats the harm in that.
Fourthly, take the above three considerations, and make a pact with yourself to live with it atleast for a week. You ought to give it a chance, try to read Quran, prayers too, after all they wont hurt you.....................remember first you make the habbits, then the habbits make you. Whats wrong in AGAIN giving it a chance............
Lets see where we reach, but give it a chance man,

i know my inner feelings are unnatural and i am deeply ashamed of it and i am repulsed by women

and my whole life i have been thinking about my life here after but what if there is no life after? Islam says homosexuality is a sin and never even mentions why someone is homosexual...if Islam is a religion for heterosexuals and not all the people on Earth then my faith just drops another level.

individualist · December 14, 2009

I liked healer's post... I think he must be a student of pshychology?

I hated shoelace's post... reminds me of the empty arguments of sheikhs/mullahs/scholars.

shoelace · December 14, 2009

I liked healer's post... I think he must be a student of pshychology?
I hated shoelace's post... reminds me of the empty arguments of sheikhs/mullahs/scholars.

I DONT CARE IF U LIKE MY POST OR NOT...I AM NOT HERE TO CHEER UP ANY ONE...I CANT SEE 18 YEAR OLD WHO HARDLY UNDERSTAND ABOUT ISLAAM ,COMMING HERE AND TELING WORLD HE DOES NOT BELIVES IN ISLAAM.MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.

Edited December 14, 2009 by shoelace

MissShiaMuslim · December 14, 2009

I DONT CARE IF U LIKE MY POST OR NOT...I AM NOT HERE TO CHEER UP ANY ONE...I CANT SEE 18 YEAR OLD WHO HARDLY UNDERSTAND ABOUT ISLAAM COMMING HERE AND TELING WORLD HE DOES NOT BELIVES IN ISLAAM.

How can you sit there and judge his knowledge? how do you know? HE HAS THESE THOUGHTS, he prays to be straight!

Isnt any of this sinking in to you, he obviously doesnt want these thoughts, we need to HELP him, not scream at him while he's down, that isnt every Islamic.

We need to advise him, and give him good advice to see the BEAUTIFUL side of Islam, not this abusive [Edited Out].

whatsthetruth · December 14, 2009

OKAY LISTEN TO THIS NOW....DO NOT F@# ARROUND CRYING AGAINST ISLAM OR Allah(i am typing in caps to put this stupid arguement to end once at a time)
YOU ARE 18 YEAR OLD AND NOW YOU NEED TO GET MARRRIED TO SATISFY YOUR SEXUAL URGES BUT AS FOR SOME REASON YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO GET MARRIED AND BEING IN SEXUAL ACTIVITY WITH MEN IN YOUR PAST YOU HAVE JUST STARTED THINKING YOU LIKE MEN OVER WOMEN,ONCE YOU GET MARRIED EVERY THING WILL BE ALRIGHT.
THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HOMOSEXUALITY ITS ALL [Edited Out] FROM SHAYTAAN TO CHEAT SON OF ADAM WITH USELESS ARGUMENTS AND TO DIVERT THEM FROM Allah.

I DONT CARE IF U LIKE MY POST OR NOT...I AM NOT HERE TO CHEER UP ANY ONE...I CANT SEE 18 YEAR OLD WHO HARDLY UNDERSTAND ABOUT ISLAAM ,COMMING HERE AND TELING WORLD HE DOES NOT BELIVES IN ISLAAM.MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.

wow u are the type of a$**** that gives Islam such a negative image...i think i know more about Islam than you do...you can just get the F#*$ out of this thread...

Dear bro,
my heart goes out to you and I applaud your courage at being able to come forward with what you've faced. I can't even begin to imagine the kind of confusion and anguish you must be experiencing right now... You have my deepest support and prayers.
As far as homosexuality, it absolutely does exist in that it is as real as the feelings behind it are; and feelings do have a reality, albeit an intangible one that can hardly be proven unless you're the one experiencing them. The question is, why do these feelings exist, and as a result of what? Islam tells us that it is not in the fitrat of a human being to be sexually attracted to the same gender ((although note that homosexual thoughts are not punished, only actions are)), so where do these feelings come from?
I think it's impossible to dismiss the correlation between victims of sexual abuse and incidence of homosexuality. A staggering percentage of people who identify themselves as homosexuals have had childhood experiences much like yours- situations where intercourse was forced upon them when they couldn't even understand what it was- all they could understand was the way their body was responding; with pain, but also likely with involuntary pleasure which the body's most animalistic faculties can cause a person to feel simply as a response to sex, regardless of the context. It's that pleasure, over which victims have no more control than the rape itself, that I think in part leaves so many feeling confused, guilty, and disgusted with themselves. If you felt yourself feeling pleasure for even a moment, you might then have wondered to yourself: why would I feel this way, unless being attracted to men and sexually interested in them is a part of who I am? Sorry in advance for being crude here, but- the truth is, perverse men throughout history have tried doing the dirty with animals and found themselves turned on even then- but just because the human body is capable of responding pleasurably in response to intercourse with a goat, does not mean that goats and men are meant to be together- it simply proves that that aspect of us works like a machine and has virtually nothing to do with the spiritual reality of love.
Another reason I think sexual abuse can lead to self-identifications of homosexuality is because aligning your lifestyle and your identity with what happened to you is a defense mechanism that gives you a feeling of control. You did not have control over the abuse inflicted on you and it was among the most psychologically damaging things that could happen to you as a child, therefore you grow up to consider putting yourself into situations similar to what you experienced then- male+male intercourse- only this time, you are at last able to add the element of control that you lacked in your vulnerable times as a child.
This is a trend sometimes seen in young girls who are sexually abused by their fathers or other male adults... they often grow up to pursue partners much older than themselves, with the same domineering qualities and many of the same tendencies (ie. alcoholism) as the men who abused them. In these cases, too, the girls are looking for belated affirmation by repeating the situations that happened to them, but under circumstances that make them feel like they have a choice, and like the respect these chosen partners give them can make up for the respect their abusers never did... It is unbelievably painful to confront the possibility that the men who abused them did not do it because they loved and cared about them and wanted to show them this- but rather that they were psychologically disturbed individuals who grossly took advantage of them and committed the worst offenses possible against them- so they try to run from that possibility by finding men like their abusers to assure themselves that their abusers could've loved them. The truth will always be, though, that real love would NEVER violate a person's body or heart, and evil people come in all sorts of packages- some of them can be gentle, trustworthy, loving, kind, etc etc.- but that does NOT excuse the wrongness of their actions, and it does not make it okay or less bad for them to commit abuse, and it does not lessen their guilt.
A final reason sexual abuse might lead many people to think of themselves as homosexuals is because it's a way for victims to soften the terror of what has actually happened to them. It would be upsetting to the point of total madness to have to accept, as a child, that somebody you loved, and cared about, and trusted, could have done the most wrong and hurtful thing humanly possible to you- and in fact, accepting that you're a homosexual can be easier than accepting that you were sexually abused and seeing it for what it really was.
So many victims distort what really happened by convincing themselves that the abuse was their fault, that their abuser was a good person who loved them, or that the abuse wasn't so bad because a part of them was orientated to enjoy it. But see the situation for what it really was... your sexual identity was not independently formed at that tender age; any sexual feelings a child has are purely physiological phenomena that children do not understand or have a use for until the passage of time and maturity. You were not given the chance to wait and find out... your sexual inclinations were molded by abuse, not your own free will. If you had been assaulted by women rather than men, you likely would've developed an unhealthy attraction toward harmful women instead; if it had been an alien, you might've ended up attracted to aliens, and so on. The point is, your attraction was shaped by what happened to you, not what you decided, and it could've gone any direction had the situations been different. What you need to realize, then, is this-
you are a spiritual being much more than you are a physical being, and your sexual attractions do not determine who you are any more than the texture of your skin or the color of your eyes- because none of these things were decided for you; some were genetics, some brute circumstance. You are not simply/unquestionably a gay person and your sexual attractions do not define you- you are a young man who experienced repeated sexual abuse that may have inclined you toward becoming interested in men, because this was the nature of formative interactions beyond your control- but you are not only that. You are also an incredible warrior of a human being who has struggled so hard to keep his faith- fighting that ultimate jihaad amid situations most of us can't even imagine- and far stronger than most people I know. You're not just a sexual being so don't let that conundrum alone preoccupy you; you can also be a student, an artist, a writer, a soccer player, a pilot, and so on... being gay or straight is not the only thing, it's one very miniscule quality among an infinite number of others. You've also never gotten to be with a woman... don't be alarmed if you've never met a girl who interested you; some people search a lifetime before someone catches their eye, so don't close the door on the female half of the human race just yet. And if you're worried, deep down inside, that a woman wouldn't want to be with you because of what you've been through and the doubts you've had, don't be... if every 'perfectly straight' guy was as sincere as you, the wives of the world would be much happier women.
I know, at the end of the day, you probably feel extremely lonely, and might also be inclined to believe that you're a homosexual because most guys don't go through the sexual confusion that you've experienced, so you might think that this confusion is absolute and irrefutable evidence that you aren't like the others. But the reason the average guy doesn't have to face the questions you have to face is not because he's straight and you're gay, it's because you have had experiences with being molested as a child and the average guy hasn't, so he doesn't even have a context in which to imagine the issues and attractions that are plaguing you.
In summary, it's okay to question, it's okay to doubt, it's okay to consider...
but more than anything, it's okay to let yourself feel sadness, and anger, and wonder why this happened to you and what the hell was wrong with the monsters who hurt you. Blame them, scream at them, accept what they did, don't put yourself through denial or self-hatred or misplaced guilt... know that none of it was your fault, and know that God loves you very very much. The fact that you've tried so hard, all these years, to maintain your faith even though you've been through so much is absolutely mind-blowing. I could never have that kind of faith, I don't know anyone who could survive as you have... there's gotta be one heck of a special place in heaven for an amazing soul like yours.
You have suffered, and suffered, and suffered, but you can also triumph. Please don't give up on yourself. Even if you end up shaking your head and feeling convinced that you can't change your feelings of attraction, that's okay. You're still a wonderful being in my eyes, and I am just a flawed human being... imagine how precious you may very well be to God, who has 70 times the mercy of the most superior human beings, and an infinite amount of love to give. Please know that God did not want this to happen to you, and He did not cause it or stand by and watch- He gave human beings free will- free will that allows us to love each other, to serve each other, to do brilliant beyond brilliant things for our fellow human beings- but with all the good things we are capable of have to come the bad; the good could not exist without the darkness- so we are equally capable of harming, and taking advantage of, and destroying others. I am so sorry that you had to be on the receiving end of so much bad... you did not deserve it, and it did not have to be you, and those filthy goddamned [Edited Out]s will be punished for choosing you to harm- but please know that you are equally entitled to be on the receiving end of the world's good; let yourself move on and live peacefully and insh'Allah you will experience the happiness you deserve after so much hardship. You've been hurt, but you can also be loved and healed and put back together.

wow man...thanks...idk what to say...i can't stop tears from my eyes right now..i think i wanna just maybe read the Quran again or something.....is there an email i can contact u on or something...

Edited December 14, 2009 by whatsthetruth

individualist · December 14, 2009

what about the people of Lut? Everyone has told me that homosexuality is one of the biggest sins of all...in Iran anyone commiting homosexual acts is killed. and yeah it is unnatural anyone would say that (because in the end sex=reproduction)

[Edited Out]! if homosexulaity is one of the greatest sins, then at least a punishment would have been prescribed in the Quran (why prescribe the punishment for public adultery/fornication, which is flogging ,NOT stoning, while not prescribe anything for homosexulaity?)

As for the people of Lut.. they were very evil and deviant in everyway... but why did the Quran mention their being homosexuality? it's just that they were the first community/nation to practice homosexulaity on a very large scale. But again, they were evil overall, and were destroyed for the same reason other nations were destroyed by God.

Edited December 14, 2009 by individualist

shoelace · December 14, 2009

How can you sit there and judge his knowledge? how do you know? HE HAS THESE THOUGHTS, he prays to be straight!
Isnt any of this sinking in to you, he obviously doesnt want these thoughts, we need to HELP him, not scream at him while he's down, that isnt every Islamic.
We need to advise him, and give him good advice to see the BEAUTIFUL side of Islam, not this abusive [Edited Out].

repeat this mantra

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