Marriage by force

[raza amir]

Sallam to all. I have a question, may be it seems stupid 4 all of you but i wana ask! If a person doesnt like or love you, even she is not intrested in someone else, so is it fair to marry her by force or convence her for marriage by force? But again 1 problem, that even by force, but how can i convence her? Please advice

[shoelace]

winning heart is a talent...and most people have it as a GOD gifted ....charm is god given

but any ways be good in all possible way she might get impressed

[Basim Ali]

(salam),

For your question to be answered, you need to define 'force' and its limits.

Forcing can be the parents forcing their daughter to marry you, because you have impressed them.

Forcing can be kidnapping, and marrying by force, without the girl's or her parents' consent, because you like her.

Either way, it's wrong, Islamically and ethically. Unfortunately, the modern society is bent towards falling for the first type of forcing. In fact, I believe most South Asian marriage today take place on the basis of this force. But again, forcing is not the right word for such marriages. The parents just consider it unnecessary to ask for the daughter's view about the groom, before tying them both in the marriage bond. The girl, often finds it pointless to argue (knowing that she has no choice) and gives up, and marries who her parents want her to marry.

It is very important to remember that it is the girl that is going to spend her life with the groom, and not the parents. So the bride's viewpoint of the groom should be the first priority before considering marriage talks.

In order to avoid such marriages taking place, the groom must ask the bride whether she has any objection to marrying him, in personal (without her parents listening or looking, to be specific) - just like in Hindi movies ;) . If she does express her disapproval of him, he should drop the proposal then and there, and seek for another bride. A marriage in which only the boy likes the girl, and the girl does not like the boy, will definitely result in an unsuccessful marriage (which does always mean divorce; can also mean no mutual love between the couple, repeated disagreements, etc.).

If a girl has made up her mind not to like you from the beginning, you can do little to change her mind. But who knows, when you drop the proposal hearing she doesn't like you, she might start liking you! Always expect the unexpected from Allah's ways. :)

(wasalam)

Basim Ali Jafri

[raza amir]

(salam),

For your question to be answered, you need to define 'force' and its limits.

Forcing can be the parents forcing their daughter to marry you, because you have impressed them.

Forcing can be kidnapping, and marrying by force, without the girl's or her parents' consent, because you like her.

Either way, it's wrong, Islamically and ethically. Unfortunately, the modern society is bent towards falling for the first type of forcing. In fact, I believe most South Asian marriage today take place on the basis of this force. But again, forcing is not the right word for such marriages. The parents just consider it unnecessary to ask for the daughter's view about the groom, before tying them both in the marriage bond. The girl, often finds it pointless to argue (knowing that she has no choice) and gives up, and marries who her parents want her to marry.

It is very important to remember that it is the girl that is going to spend her life with the groom, and not the parents. So the bride's viewpoint of the groom should be the first priority before considering marriage talks.

In order to avoid such marriages taking place, the groom must ask the bride whether she has any objection to marrying him, in personal (without her parents listening or looking, to be specific) - just like in Hindi movies ;) . If she does express her disapproval of him, he should drop the proposal then and there, and seek for another bride. A marriage in which only the boy likes the girl, and the girl does not like the boy, will definitely result in an unsuccessful marriage (which does always mean divorce; can also mean no mutual love between the couple, repeated disagreements, etc.).

If a girl has made up her mind not to like you from the beginning, you can do little to change her mind. But who knows, when you drop the proposal hearing she doesn't like you, she might start liking you! Always expect the unexpected from Allah's ways. :)

(wasalam)

Basim Ali Jafri

Thanks Basim Brother for your sweet reply. Anyhow, will see. Dear can you tell me on which date muharram will start in pakistan.

[naro]

Sallam to all. I have a question, may be it seems stupid 4 all of you but i wana ask! If a person doesnt like or love you, even she is not intrested in someone else, so is it fair to marry her by force or convence her for marriage by force? But again 1 problem, that even by force, but how can i convence her? Please advice

the girl doesn't like you, leave her alone please.

[shoelace]

the girl doesn't like you, leave her alone please.

what if no girl in world like him...shall he remain bachelor life lone? :(

please let him try... ;)

hehe please dont mind i am not trying to degrade any one here,but just a thought.... ^_^

[naro]

what if no girl in world like him...shall he remain bachelor life lone? :(

well that's impossible fortunately. but some men need to stop being selfish.

she doesn't want you man, forget her!

[Basim Ali]

(salam),

Thanks Basim Brother for your sweet reply. Anyhow, will see. Dear can you tell me on which date muharram will start in pakistan.

Lol, I'm not in Pakistan - I'm just from it. Besides, you can't decide until Dhul Hijjah ends.

wa (salam),

Basim Ali Jafri

[lion]

Marriage by force is the work of the devil.avoid it.

[raza amir]

the girl doesn't like you, leave her alone please.

Oh my GOD, leave her! its too tough for me. You know bro! girls are so selfesh, They can change their mind just in minutes, 1 of my best friend always give me sach advices that never trust on grls, But dear bro i am helpless becz of my heart.

[Mohammed-W]

Oh my GOD, leave her! its too tough for me. You know bro! girls are so selfesh, They can change their mind just in minutes, 1 of my best friend always give me sach advices that never trust on grls, But dear bro i am helpless becz of my heart.

you are supossed to be helpless after marriage as it stands you have no basis.

secure the deal or move on.

since you cant secure the deal (marriage) move on, would you like if someone fixed themselves on your sister or you mother (if she was available)?

Marriage by force is the work of the devil.avoid it.

the girl doesn't like you, leave her alone please.

[raza amir]

well that's impossible fortunately. but some men need to stop being selfish.

she doesn't want you man, forget her!

Hey dude what the hell? why you are taking side of girls. Then why she came close to me? Why she allowed me to disscuss all matters with her? Now she is saying i cant marry you? Now you think is it not a just like time pass. Girls are so selfesh, may be your case is different but i think like this. You know only 4 her i was always praying to Allah to give me bright future and unique job, Allah did it 4 me, Allah-HAMDULILLAH now i have a job about which all geologists of pakistan are just dreaming, but still she is nt agree. Dear the main reason is i like to spend simple life and you know that now-a-days girls are very very modern. So you are getting side of girls. Any how you have your own opinion. take care

[Mehvish]

Oh my GOD, leave her! its too tough for me. You know bro! girls are so selfesh, They can change their mind just in minutes, 1 of my best friend always give me sach advices that never trust on grls, But dear bro i am helpless becz of my heart.

Girls are not selfish, most men just aren't good enough. Its kind of one of those things in life women have to sadly accept and find a way to overcome (either by becoming lesbian or just not get married at all). In the rare circumstance we do find a man that we can remotely tolerate, women still do make a lot of sacrifices (especially since we're the baby-making machines).

I'm sorry, but your argument just has absolutely no ground. Not only do men suck in bed, but girls also have to deal with monthly cycles, being ridiculously fat for nine months every time you want to have a baby...and we're also made responsible for all the boring stuff in life - cooking, cleaning, laundry...etc. On top of that, we don't even get paid for all that hard work - and now we're the ones asking for too much and not to be trusted? Excuse me?

Your helpless heart isn't good enough. Move on, dump that friend that gave you such terrible advice and give women the respect they deserve.

[raza amir]

Girls are not selfish, most men just aren't good enough. Its kind of one of those things in life women have to sadly accept and find a way to overcome (either by becoming lesbian or just not get married at all). In the rare circumstance we do find a man that we can remotely tolerate, women still do make a lot of sacrifices (especially since we're the baby-making machines).

I'm sorry, but your argument just has absolutely no ground. Not only do men suck in bed, but girls also have to deal with monthly cycles, being ridiculously fat for nine months every time you want to have a baby...and we're also made responsible for all the boring stuff in life - cooking, cleaning, laundry...etc. On top of that, we don't even get paid for all that hard work - and now we're the ones asking for too much and not to be trusted? Excuse me?

Your helpless heart isn't good enough. Move on, dump that friend that gave you such terrible advice and give women the respect they deserve.

hehehehehehe, i think you are very modern girl, behna its nature that is gifted you people by Allah and you are saying all its boaring stuff. You are the 1st girl who hates kids and all these stuffs. My friend is right, even I can proof that girls are selfesh, my another czn loves me alot, she is mad about me and even she herself said that raza plz maary me i cant live without you, now here you will say you marry her, to proof girl's selfeshness. Its (selfeshness) in girls nature and ya not all girls are same, but most of them are same (selfesh).

[Maryaam]

Sallam to all. I have a question, may be it seems stupid 4 all of you but i wana ask! If a person doesnt like or love you, even she is not intrested in someone else, so is it fair to marry her by force or convence her for marriage by force? But again 1 problem, that even by force, but how can i convence her? Please advice

I dont understand - are you saying that you want to know if it is ok to force this woman who is not interested in you??

Girls are not selfish, most men just aren't good enough. Its kind of one of those things in life women have to sadly accept and find a way to overcome (either by becoming lesbian or just not get married at all). In the rare circumstance we do find a man that we can remotely tolerate, women still do make a lot of sacrifices (especially since we're the baby-making machines).

I'm sorry, but your argument just has absolutely no ground. Not only do men suck in bed, but girls also have to deal with monthly cycles, being ridiculously fat for nine months every time you want to have a baby...and we're also made responsible for all the boring stuff in life - cooking, cleaning, laundry...etc. On top of that, we don't even get paid for all that hard work - and now we're the ones asking for too much and not to be trusted? Excuse me?

Your helpless heart isn't good enough. Move on, dump that friend that gave you such terrible advice and give women the respect they deserve.

LOL -

OK - so tell us how you really feel......

[raza amir]

I dont understand - are you saying that you want to know if it is ok to force this woman who is not interested in you??

LOL -

OK - so tell us how you really feel......

I know i cannot force her to marry me or nor its my rite to do so. The problem is that she sometimes says that i like you bt cant marry you, so then what the hell is this. I have left the reslut on Allah.

[Sehnsucht]

I know it's hard to accept, but sometimes it makes perfect sense not to marry someone- even if you do like them. Feelings alone cannot sustain a marriage; your values, ideals, habits, goals, inclinations, expectations, etc., should also be compatible. And just because *you* think these things match up doesn't mean the girl has to see the same way... marriage is one of the most serious decisions to be made in this life, and going through with it without considering all possible areas of contention is a prime explanation for why divorce rates are so high nowadays. People so often jump the gun at the first flicker of what they deem "love", and then wonder what went wrong when they end up in divorce court a few years later. Here's a good rule of thumb: if it doesn't last, or there are serious, persistent doubts on either side, it probably isn't love.

Also, I don't mean to target this strictly at you, just a general observation- it is extremely unjust, derogatory, and inhumane to even think of trying to force or manipulate someone to love/marry you, not to mention thoroughly unIslamic. If I were in the girl's shoes and I knew a guy was willing to consider force to marry me, all my kind feelings toward him would vanish immediately. The thought is point-blank disturbing... a spouse is not a slave to be tied to your side against their will. What kind of happiness do you anticipate getting out of a relationship with someone who doesn't even consent to it- or is it only your own happiness that you've been considering here?

The best evidence of having truly loved someone is being able to let go of them. You haven't learned to love someone unless you've thought about them marrying someone else and been more glad for their potential happiness than pained by your own loss of them. There is no room for selfishness in love, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll be worthy of it.

I know it's hard to accept, but sometimes it makes perfect sense not to marry someone- even if you do like them. Feelings alone cannot sustain a marriage; your values, ideals, habits, goals, inclinations, expectations, etc., should also be compatible. And just because *you* think these things match up doesn't mean the girl has to see the same way as well... marriage is one of the most serious decisions to be made in this life, and going through with it without considering all possible areas of contention is a prime explanation for why divorce rates are so high nowadays. People so often jump the gun at the first flicker of what they deem "love", and then wonder what went wrong when they end up in divorce court a few years later. Here's a good rule of thumb: if it doesn't last, or there are serious, persistent doubts on either side, it probably isn't love.

Also, I don't mean to target this strictly at you, just a general observation- it is extremely unjust, derogatory, and inhumane to even think of trying to force or manipulate someone to love/marry you, not to mention thoroughly unIslamic. If I were in the girl's shoes and I knew a guy was willing to consider force to marry me, all my kind feelings toward him would vanish immediately. The thought is point-blank disturbing... a spouse is not a slave to be tied to your side against their will. What kind of happiness do you anticipate getting out of a relationship with someone who doesn't even consent to it- or is it only your own happiness that you've been considering here?

The best evidence of having truly loved someone is being able to let go of them. You haven't learned to love someone unless you've thought about them marrying someone else and been more glad for their potential happiness than pained by your own loss of them. There is no room for selfishness in love, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll be worthy of it.

Edited December 14, 2009 by healer

[dan_rafi]

I know i cannot force her to marry me or nor its my rite to do so. The problem is that she sometimes says that i like you bt cant marry you, so then what the hell is this. I have left the reslut on Allah.

Dude, this means.. that she is a very confused person! If this continues, you both are going to hurt each other.....and i know it!!!!

She likes u but she is not ready to marry u... u like her and u want to marry her..... what does she exactly means by all this?? ask her that! in simple english. And demand an answer.... if she still says that she can't marry you then MOVE ON dude.... Alhamudillah there are plenty of other girls who will like you and would want to commit to a serious, long-term relationship with you which cud end up in marriage, iA.

There is no point in lying to yourself... she doesn't like u, that means she does not like u!!!

no point in waiting for her for ever. Y waste your time? y be upset over someone who has no feelings for ya? y should you be sad for someone who doesn't think of you as nothing more than just a friend??

Girls are not selfish, most men just aren't good enough. Its kind of one of those things in life women have to sadly accept and find a way to overcome (either by becoming lesbian or just not get married at all). In the rare circumstance we do find a man that we can remotely tolerate, women still do make a lot of sacrifices (especially since we're the baby-making machines).

I think you should totally do that, just turn lesbian or stay single all ur lyfe.

Let other women, who r more sincere, who r not as demanding, and who truly want to get married... give them a chance!

Edited December 14, 2009 by dan_rafi

[Bonafide Hustler]

Girls are not selfish, most men just aren't good enough. Its kind of one of those things in life women have to sadly accept and find a way to overcome (either by becoming lesbian or just not get married at all). In the rare circumstance we do find a man that we can remotely tolerate, women still do make a lot of sacrifices (especially since we're the baby-making machines).

I'm sorry, but your argument just has absolutely no ground. Not only do men suck in bed, but girls also have to deal with monthly cycles, being ridiculously fat for nine months every time you want to have a baby...and we're also made responsible for all the boring stuff in life - cooking, cleaning, laundry...etc. On top of that, we don't even get paid for all that hard work - and now we're the ones asking for too much and not to be trusted? Excuse me?

Your helpless heart isn't good enough. Move on, dump that friend that gave you such terrible advice and give women the respect they deserve.

I am sorry but men tend to suffer from their wives monthly cycles more than women do. Secondly with fertility rates of 0.0001721 these days, I would hardly consider women baby popping machines, the whole concept is just alien to them now. No babies, no ROI but plenty of PMS mood swings as if it wasn't enough outside it. You are made to cook clean and do laundry only because you are inherently not capable of engineering the red ferraris you so heartlessly demand as mahr. We make better cooks too, just check out my recipes thread but we dont whine and bleep about it. Heck if you worked, you would whine and bleep about that too. Men suck in bed? I am sorry if we are just extremely efficient, to the point, timely and full of content while women demand the most perfect, sophisticated and long lasting experience simply cuz they dont gotta get up at 6 am to go engineer stupid red ferraris for the likes of you. We gotta put up with allll that [Edited Out] and then watch in embarrassment as you run away with half, less than half way through the probation period.

[Maryaam]

I am sorry but men tend to suffer from their wives monthly cycles more than women do. Secondly with fertility rates of 0.0001721 these days, I would hardly consider women baby popping machines, the whole concept is just alien to them now. No babies, no ROI but plenty of PMS mood swings as if it wasn't enough outside it. You are made to cook clean and do laundry only because you are inherently not capable of engineering the red ferraris you so heartlessly demand as mahr. We make better cooks too, just check out my recipes thread but we dont whine and bleep about it. Heck if you worked, you would whine and bleep about that too. Men suck in bed? I am sorry if we are just extremely efficient, to the point, timely and full of content while women demand the most perfect, sophisticated and long lasting experience simply cuz they dont gotta get up at 6 am to go engineer stupid red ferraris for the likes of you. We gotta put up with allll that [Edited Out] and then watch in embarrassment as you run away with half, less than half way through the probation period.

There is a probationary period? :Hijabi:

[Bonafide Hustler]

There is a probationary period? :Hijabi:

Yeah you didnt know? Its before her first pregnancy, however long that takes.

[Marbles]

I am sorry but men tend to suffer from their wives monthly cycles more than women do. Secondly with fertility rates of 0.0001721 these days, I would hardly consider women baby popping machines, the whole concept is just alien to them now. No babies, no ROI but plenty of PMS mood swings as if it wasn't enough outside it. You are made to cook clean and do laundry only because you are inherently not capable of engineering the red ferraris you so heartlessly demand as mahr. We make better cooks too, just check out my recipes thread but we dont whine and bleep about it. Heck if you worked, you would whine and bleep about that too. Men suck in bed? I am sorry if we are just extremely efficient, to the point, timely and full of content while women demand the most perfect, sophisticated and long lasting experience simply cuz they dont gotta get up at 6 am to go engineer stupid red ferraris for the likes of you. We gotta put up with allll that [Edited Out] and then watch in embarrassment as you run away with half, less than half way through the probation period.

:lol:

Shot down. . .in flames.

[Calm]

Sallam to all. I have a question, may be it seems stupid 4 all of you but i wana ask! If a person doesnt like or love you, even she is not intrested in someone else, so is it fair to marry her by force or convence her for marriage by force? But again 1 problem, that even by force, but how can i convence her? Please advice

You want to force a woman who does not like you to marry you?? I don't blame her for not being interested. Did you know forced marriage are invalid in Islam and inhuman in every code of conduct?

If you want to try to convince her that's something else. You can figure what does she not like in you and see if you can work that thing out so her view about you changes-maybe.

[Envir-Islam]

Never try to force a women to marry or try to like you cause she will just NOT do it. I think the fact that you are trying is good but if she does not like you for yourself now then after marriage when you become yourself once again after convincing her to marry her, will she like you then? Most likely not. Maybe this girl is just difficult to marry or to win over. You can keep trying but do not force anything or act other then yourself to try and win her over...

Not only do men suck in bed, but girls also have to deal with monthly cycles, being ridiculously fat for nine months every time you want to have a baby...and we're also made responsible for all the boring stuff in life - cooking, cleaning, laundry...etc.

I do not agree with that statement fully.

1- not fun in bed? Have you had it more then with one guy to decide what is fun?

2-yes monthly cycles do suck and can get out of control

3-This is for your child. Becoming fat to produce YOUR kin is something that I think is a miracle and amazing.

4-Not all the stuff we do is boring. Cooking can be fun if you make it so. Laundry I hate so yeah that is boring. But women have to do it cause men surly can not.

Though I do agree with

and now we're the ones asking for too much and not to be trusted? Excuse me?

We do sometimes get the bad end of the stick. There are men out there that appreciate us and there are men that do not. For the men that do not appreciate us can you live with out a women for a year and survive with out burning the house down?

Sincerly,

Drema

[Mehvish]

I think you should totally do that, just turn lesbian or stay single all ur lyfe.

Let other women, who r more sincere, who r not as demanding, and who truly want to get married... give them a chance!

Oh come on, I'm just being honest here and the girls who don't complain are simply too shy and reserved to do so.

I am sorry but men tend to suffer from their wives monthly cycles more than women do. Secondly with fertility rates of 0.0001721 these days, I would hardly consider women baby popping machines, the whole concept is just alien to them now. No babies, no ROI but plenty of PMS mood swings as if it wasn't enough outside it.

Puh-lease. You complain about bad mood swings? Try actually having a period. You have no idea what we suffer every month! Imagine someone stabbing you in the stomach, and then slowly twisting the blade inside you, and thats menstrual cramps for you! Coupled with that, we just feel totally [Edited Out]py for a week every month. A supportive husband should never complain about bad attitude. Stop being so selfish and think of what we have to go through! Also, in most parts of the world, that is albeit first world countries, women really are baby popping machines. And even if that doesn't apply just having one baby is hard work enough!

And by the way, this does not go without saying that men too have terrible mood swings at times.

You are made to cook clean and do laundry only because you are inherently not capable of engineering the red ferraris you so heartlessly demand as mahr. We make better cooks too, just check out my recipes thread but we dont whine and bleep about it. Heck if you worked, you would whine and bleep about that too.

First of all, women are capable of anything they choose. Its only demands of the household and society in general that sets them back. It is unfortunate that women have to suffer in a male-driven-world run by capitalism: two things that socially bind women and deprive them of opportunities!

And I never said who are better chefs - sure, men and women have equal opportunities of being good at something but its the women who are typically stuck with it.

And that last part of your statement is wrong too. Throughout history women have generally accepted lower pay than men but surprisingly, they generally complain very little about it. Many political scientists found this rather confusing, given that women's movements are on of the most mature suffrage movements around the world - but studies found that women were willing to accept any pay because they felt their work being rewarded and valued as opposed to doing housework. Further studies concluded that the housework women do at home is generally not only more stressful but are a reason for depression and low self esteem because the people of the household generally do not express any appreciation for the amount of work they do. Instead, its taken for granted because its for free.

Men suck in bed? I am sorry if we are just extremely efficient, to the point, timely and full of content while women demand the most perfect, sophisticated and long lasting experience simply cuz they dont gotta get up at 6 am to go engineer stupid red ferraris for the likes of you. We gotta put up with allll that [Edited Out] and then watch in embarrassment as you run away with half, less than half way through the probation period.

Studies show 70% of women do not experience any pleasure in bed. We don't demand a long lasting experience out of inconvenience as you suggest, but simply because men simply do not know how to get the job done properly.

I do not agree with that statement fully.

1- not fun in bed? Have you had it more then with one guy to decide what is fun?

That experience of disappointment over and over and over again would be absolutely unbearable...

However, if you're asking if I'm a prostitute, the answer is most definitely no.

2-yes monthly cycles do suck and can get out of control

3-This is for your child. Becoming fat to produce YOUR kin is something that I think is a miracle and amazing.

I'm sure the miracle of life is exciting, I watched a really extensive movie on it in middle school. I'm cool with making any sacrifices for something like that, but I'm just trying to make people realize that these services should not be taken for granted at all. Our lives are a lot more difficult than society as a whole understands.

4-Not all the stuff we do is boring. Cooking can be fun if you make it so. Laundry I hate so yeah that is boring. But women have to do it cause men surly can not.

Though I do agree with We do sometimes get the bad end of the stick. There are men out there that appreciate us and there are men that do not. For the men that do not appreciate us can you live with out a women for a year and survive with out burning the house down?

Well of course, I do have my fair share of cooking experiences...but laundry and the dishes are absolutely unbearable activities. I'd much rather be building that Ferarri Bonafide Hustler was talking about.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Mehvish

[Envir-Islam]

I see where you are coming from. We do sometimes get put down for all the work we do. I agree but that is why you need to find a man that cares or well at least startes to care after he realizes what you do for him to last.

Also what ever a man can do a women can do and sometimes BETTER. Never understimate the job anf ability of women!

[Maryaam]

Studies show 70% of women do not experience any pleasure in bed.

???? that seems really high

We don't demand a long lasting experience out of inconvenience as you suggest, but simply because men simply do not know how to get the job done properly.

Communication, communication, communication!! Practice, practice,practice!! It takes two. :Hijabi:

Edited December 17, 2009 by Maryaam

[raza amir]

Oh my GOD! what all of you are saying? Now please stop this topic. I dont like any open discussion about my love. I just asked question and i need simple answer. Miss Mehvish keep your ideas and suggestions with yourself. I know love doesnt mean that i will must get reward. I also doesnt want to hurt her to marry her by force. And please stop this open discussions. I am shocked that girls can also talk like this, unbelievable....! Thanks to all brothers and sisters 4 comments and suggestions. Allah NIGHEBAAN and YA ALI MADAD

[Maryaam]

Oh my GOD! what all of you are saying? Now please stop this topic. I dont like any open discussion about my love. I just asked question and i need simple answer. Miss Mehvish keep your ideas and suggestions with yourself. I know love doesnt mean that i will must get reward. I also doesnt want to hurt her to marry her by force. And please stop this open discussions. I am shocked that girls can also talk like this, unbelievable....! Thanks to all brothers and sisters 4 comments and suggestions. Allah NIGHEBAAN and YA ALI MADAD

You want to discuss whether forcing a woman to marry you is acceptable BUT have problems with someone referring to improving halal sex in marriage :wacko: - something that if is not working can often lead to the end of a marriage.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Maryaam

[Guest Zahratul_Islam]

You want to discuss whether forcing a woman to marry you is acceptable BUT have problems with someone referring to improving halal sex in marriage :wacko: - something that if is not working can often lead to the end of a marriage.

:lol: Well sister in Islam.. one of them deals with him getting what he wants from a woman (reasonable enough.. we are built to cater to their needs afterall) and the other involves *gasp* a woman getting what SHE wants (audacious liberal tarts) @)

Edited December 17, 2009 by Zahratul_Islam

[raza amir]

Maryam sister i didnt mean that will catch her from her home and will marry her, that was just a general topic question, but you people take this topic to bed, monthly rubish, babies etc etc, damn! I dont know how are you girls can talk openly like this and are directly saying this this this in bed , oh realy unacceptable, Oh GOD i cant believe that now-days girls are that much open and can easily discuss their personal secrete matters with some strangers. Ones should discuss these things with her husband or fiance. And it is not important to give me answer in terms of stuff in bedroom. If some1 (wahabi, hindu, etc) will enter in this forum and wiil see the discussions of shia girls what they will think. And please now Muharram starts, it is better to stop atleast this discussion. Thanks.

[Shia & Proud]

Girls are not selfish, most men just aren't good enough. Its kind of one of those things in life women have to sadly accept and find a way to overcome (either by becoming lesbian or just not get married at all). In the rare circumstance we do find a man that we can remotely tolerate, women still do make a lot of sacrifices (especially since we're the baby-making machines).

I'm sorry, but your argument just has absolutely no ground. Not only do men suck in bed, but girls also have to deal with monthly cycles, being ridiculously fat for nine months every time you want to have a baby...and we're also made responsible for all the boring stuff in life - cooking, cleaning, laundry...etc. On top of that, we don't even get paid for all that hard work - and now we're the ones asking for too much and not to be trusted? Excuse me?

Your helpless heart isn't good enough. Move on, dump that friend that gave you such terrible advice and give women the respect they deserve.

First of all, please link me to a study showing women aren't satisfied in bed. (Not that I'm saying you are lying) Though I will say that these studies are usually questions asked to about 300 people and woopie doo all of a sudden 70% of the worlds women aren't happy with their sex lives.

Secondly, stop whining about pregnancy. If you aren't prepared to go through the natural process of giving birth - don't. Adopt a kid or piss off. Nobody is forcing you. You speak as though it is the fault of the male population that nature is such that women have pains and become fat when they are pregnant. Don't get pregnant - Lots of other women will. Don't worry, we won't get extinct - the human race doesn't need you Mehvish.

Thirdly, I don't know where the hell you are but it's 2009 - you don't have to stay home and do the laundry and cleaning. Unless you are forced to marry someone by your family and face being disowned otherwise, you have the freedom to accept a guy who isn't going to put you through that. Not all men think it's a womans duty to stay home and cook/clean etc. Plenty of couples share the household responsibilities and also have jobs outside their homes.

Edit: I can acknowledge that your lives 'are harder than most people imagine' as you put it. But it really pisses me off when women in the west today are still whinging about how they have to cook and clean and then twist the table over by bringing a load of completely irrelevant and most probably unreliable information about the sexual deffieciencies of men. Don't like your marriage? - get out of it. If you didn't have the brains to put conditions and decide on how your lifestyle was going to be with your husband prior to the wedding, then it's your own stupidity to blame. You now have the task of either leaving the marriage and using your brain the second time, or carrying on the way it is till your miserable life ends. Simply put - these conditions are no longer imposed, especially in the west. Yes, you do get many couples who do live like that, but that's either because the woman is happy to do it and won't whinge about it to her little buddies or because they never made a compromise and decided to live in the 1930s lifestyle where the wife is the little maid who is forced to cook, clean and adhere to the every demand of her moron of a husband. At the end of the day, it's your choice, especially if you're in the west.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Shia & Proud

[Guest Zahratul_Islam]

Maryam sister i didnt mean that will catch her from her home and will marry her, that was just a general topic question, but you people take this topic to bed, monthly rubish, babies etc etc, damn! I dont know how are you girls can talk openly like this and are directly saying this this this in bed , oh realy unacceptable, Oh GOD i cant believe that now-days girls are that much open and can easily discuss their personal secrete matters with some strangers. Ones should discuss these things with her husband or fiance. And it is not important to give me answer in terms of stuff in bedroom. If some1 (wahabi, hindu, etc) will enter in this forum and wiil see the discussions of shia girls what they will think. And please now Muharram starts, it is better to stop atleast this discussion. Thanks.

Our personal, secret matters? Its called menstruation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstruation. Besides, its not like Mehvish told you exactly what she wanted in bed.. she just presented some dubious statistics. Who discusses their menstrual cycle with the guy they marry anyway? Is that supposed to be intimate or romantic :unsure: Ick.

If a wahabi came on shiachat? He would probably pat you on the back and shake his head in horror at some of the posts by females and I get a strange feeling of validation from that.

[Marbles]

Studies show 70% of women do not experience any pleasure in bed. We don't demand a long lasting experience out of inconvenience as you suggest, but simply because men simply do not know how to get the job done properly.

???? that seems really high

Some audacious pontification don't you think? Take all such "studies" with a spoon of salt of the size of Dead Sea. We have seen studies like "What makes women happy" or "Women feel less happiness today than they did five decades ago", etc which mean less than a zilch. It is not possible to quantify these non-quantifiable variables at the first place let alone to generlise them over a spectrum. Percentages are only good for calculable factors like inflation and interest rates, child births, price-to-earning ratios, dividend yield, and yes, divorce rates!

As for the rest of your post, well, it was entertaining if it was no more than a humorous attempt at sophistry. It is akin to enshrouding the real problems women face in so many societies and belittling their brave expression, if , in an unfortunate event, you were serious.

[Guest Zahratul_Islam]

Some audacious pontification don't you think? Take all such "studies" with a spoon of salt of the size of Dead Sea. We have seen studies like "What makes women happy" or "Women feel less happiness today than they did five decades ago", etc which mean less than a zilch. It is not possible to quantify these non-quantifiable variables at the first place let alone to generlise them over a spectrum. Percentages are only good for calculable factors like inflation and interest rates, child births, price-to-earning ratios, dividend yield, and yes, divorce rates!

As for the rest of your post, well, it was entertaining if it was no more than a humorous attempt at sophistry. It is akin to enshrouding the real problems women face in so many societies and belittling their brave expression, if , in an unfortunate event, you were serious.

I didn't respond because I was pretty sure it was meant to be entertaining *gives benefit of the doubt because the offender was a woman :P *