Where do you see I.R.Iran thirty years from now ?

TheHealer · December 8, 2009

“When it comes to the future, there are three kinds of people: those who let it happen, those who make it happen, and those who wonder what happened.”

Lets be the the fourth kind,those who thought what would happen.....

So what do you folks, think about the future of Iran as a nation, will it survive { to live on its own terms], or will it be just a nation who once stood.

Will America eventually invade, will the Wilayat-al- Faqih survive or will the Iranian baby boomers bring it down. Thirty years is a long time folks.

And what do you think about the unrest...........is it a simple case of Post war [ read Iran Iraq gulf war, post 79 revolution] Baby Boomers[ Irans'' vey own] natural rebillious nature, and a penchant towards revolution of a Velvety kind ? Has it got something to do with Religion at all,the unrest that is ........and a thirty year prediction.

Share your thoughts................

**baradar_jackson** · December 8, 2009

I have two predictions, one for international politics and the other for domestic politics:

1) Iran will have reached a position of prominence in the world. It will be among five major world powers (the other four being the US, Russia, EU, and China). More formal alliance will be established with Syria and Lebanon. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan will all move toward Iran. Some of the Arab governments (Egypt maybe?) will fall or their power will become compromised by a local Hezbollah-type group. Iran will establish bases in Lebanon and Syria.

2) Because of the growing middle class (a good proportion of which are non-religious), I think there will be an ease of moral restrictions in order to pacify this demographic (which has the potential to be apathetic and indifferent towards politics). Political restrictions will remain the same. Defence budget will become much greater.

Essentially, I think the Islamic Republic will still exist, but that term ("Islamic Republic") will become increasingly nominal. Much like China today has little in common with the China of the 1950s and 60s, and much like the Turkey of today is making Ataturk spin in his grave. I still consider it significant.

**Noah-** · December 8, 2009

will the Wilayat-al- Faqih survive or will the Iranian baby boomers bring it down. Has it got something to do with Religion at all,the unrest that is ........and a thirty year prediction.

Iran will be nothing without religion or Wilayat faqi.... Iran's unity, progress, respect, independence and influence in the region and in the world are all based on religion.

In case Iran loses its main source of progress and secularism takes over, Iran will be nothing but another Azerbaijan, Tajikistan or even like Pakistan with a puppet government and lesser power. The worse might even happen once religion is gone, the division of the country based on ethnic/sectarian lines...Azeries, Kurds, Baloch and Arabs will all demand separate states just like Yugoslavia.......it will have a negative impact in the region specially on all Iran's neighbors.

repenter-gone4awhile · December 9, 2009

I know one thing. Someone better have the skill, stomach, willpower to kill every hezbollahi out there before WF disappears.

And i doubt anyone will have that for a while.

TheHealer · December 9, 2009

No one is disputing WF and its importance to Iran..............we are just predicting.

Further more, where do you folks think the Palestinian issue will be..........as a whole what will the Middle East scenario be like. Will the so called Shia Cresent develop into a full moon, poltical muscle wise that is ?

**baradar_jackson** · December 9, 2009

No one is disputing WF and its importance to Iran..............we are just predicting.
Further more, where do you folks think the Palestinian issue will be..........as a whole what will the Middle East scenario be like. Will the so called Shia Cresent develop into a full moon, poltical muscle wise that is ?

Yes yes yes

That is what I think the starting point will be for Iran's growth as a major world power. Iraq is essential to this, because it gives Iran unfettered access to Syria and Lebanon.

The Palestinian issue I think will be stagnant. I don't think Israel even wants the two state solution, they are just negotiating to stall the Palestinians. The Israelis are deathly afraid of a wider fight involving Syria.

TheHealer · December 9, 2009

Yes yes yes
That is what I think the starting point will be for Iran's growth as a major world power. Iraq is essential to this, because it gives Iran unfettered access to Syria and Lebanon.
The Palestinian issue I think will be stagnant. I don't think Israel even wants the two state solution, they are just negotiating to stall the Palestinians. The Israelis are deathly afraid of a wider fight involving Syria.

Earlier in your first post, you mentioned Egypt and its possible down fall by emergence of a Hizbullah like group, did you mean Muslim Brotherhood....further more if so, dont you think that it would strengethen the Saudi salafi ...Egypt Salafi partnership even further.....thus becoming even more stronger than Iran................what about Syria Saudi coming together,as has recently happened or atleast shown a pottential...........what about Lebanon and its Government, what role will Hizbollah play in the future, will it be a mere supporter of the aliance or will it be the ALLIANCE ITSELF.............?

And will Iran eventually become a nuclear [bomb] power [ tongue in cheek]..?

Aafreen · December 9, 2009

I have two predictions, one for international politics and the other for domestic politics:
1) Iran will have reached a position of prominence in the world. It will be among five major world powers (the other four being the US, Russia, EU, and China). More formal alliance will be established with Syria and Lebanon. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan will all move toward Iran. Some of the Arab governments (Egypt maybe?) will fall or their power will become compromised by a local Hezbollah-type group. Iran will establish bases in Lebanon and Syria.
2) Because of the growing middle class (a good proportion of which are non-religious), I think there will be an ease of moral restrictions in order to pacify this demographic (which has the potential to be apathetic and indifferent towards politics). Political restrictions will remain the same. Defence budget will become much greater.
Essentially, I think the Islamic Republic will still exist, but that term ("Islamic Republic") will become increasingly nominal. Much like China today has little in common with the China of the 1950s and 60s, and much like the Turkey of today is making Ataturk spin in his grave. I still consider it significant.

1) While I have my own serious reservations about India, I'm surprised that your assessment completely ignores the country which will, in all likelihood, be the most populous nation in 30 years. Furthermore, your prediction about Egypt in particular seems to mere conjecture. Are you aware that the Islamists within Egypt are deeply at odds with each other on how to topple that government? Even the successful execution of Anwar Sadat did not topple the Egyptian government. Egypt is a rentier state with a massive army and civil service, whose members will not benefit from a replacement of the secular government for the foreseeable future. On the other hand, the likes of Ayman al Zawahiri articulated a bottom-up replacement of the government by infiltrating Islamists--lots of them--in the armed and civil services but to no avail. In fact, the growing clout of Hizb al Wasat demonstrates that both the secularists and the Islamists feel threatened. Many Islamists who participated directly or indirectly in the struggle against the secular government have moderated their views. Even the Muslim Brotherhood as a political force has had to moderate its views and in doing so alienated some hardcore supporters like Zawahiri. The losers in this situation are those who affiliate themselves with the extreme ends of secularism and Islamism.

2) I have challenged your observations on the role of the middle class elsewhere and I do so again here. The statement you're making about the middle class being apathetic or apolitical is not justified. It would be a serious mistake to underestimate the politics of the middle class. Unlike its Arab/Muslim neighbours, IRI has had thirty years of reasonably well-functioning, albeit restricted, democracy: no military takeovers, nor assassinated political opponents. Furthermore, protestors contesting the summer elections asked "where's my vote" not "where's my gun"? That's a significant indicator of the political maturity in Iran, in stark contrast to all of its neighbours. That will probably be the most likely reason that control of the conservatives will, at least, soften up.

hussainmehdi · December 9, 2009

up to now since 1979, this is Iran that has been leading and shaping the world politics,

united states and britain were always in confusion,

while Iran always had and has a clear and just policy,

just and clear and easily understandable policy creates influence in the world as Iran has today,

confusion, this and that, favoring taliban/opposing taliban, favoring saddam/opposing saddam, etc,

this has been usa's and britain's policy since last 30 years,

people have fed up with that confused policy,

this policy has no direction,

while Iran always had a clear and just policy from the first day of revolution,

Iran's policies confirm that Iran's future is bright and excellent.

ShiaSoldier@2007 · December 9, 2009

(bismillah) (salam)

Good luck trying to take on Iran again. The U.S gave all they had to Iraq to defeat Iran, right after the Iranian revolution when Iran was at their weakest, and Iran still won. This time if they dare to challenge Wf every believing shia will come out to fight, and it will be no walk in the park.

Returniste · December 9, 2009

I know one thing. Someone better have the skill, stomach, willpower to kill every hezbollahi out there before WF disappears.
And i doubt anyone will have that for a while.

No they will fight and kill each other eventually. Dogs that are bred for violence (Note: I am not saying these people are dogs, although I did use the reference elsewhere, but that's not the intention here) often are unable to control their violent natures and fight each other. Because if the international situation, it will become more and more a regime dominated by 'security interests' and the abuse of citizens based on suspicion and the violation of their rights.

OR, the wise men in the Guards will take a step back, but I doubt that.

What I hope is that it truly becomes an Islamic Republic, respecting human dignity and the people's God-given rights; encouraging the essence of the true religion of Islam and people voluntarily practicing Islam. Lastly, I hope they make major leaps in science & technology, industrial production and social & religious sciences.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Returniste

**baradar_jackson** · December 10, 2009

1) While I have my own serious reservations about India, I'm surprised that your assessment completely ignores the country which will, in all likelihood, be the most populous nation in 30 years. Furthermore, your prediction about Egypt in particular seems to mere conjecture. Are you aware that the Islamists within Egypt are deeply at odds with each other on how to topple that government? Even the successful execution of Anwar Sadat did not topple the Egyptian government. Egypt is a rentier state with a massive army and civil service, whose members will not benefit from a replacement of the secular government for the foreseeable future. On the other hand, the likes of Ayman al Zawahiri articulated a bottom-up replacement of the government by infiltrating Islamists--lots of them--in the armed and civil services but to no avail. In fact, the growing clout of Hizb al Wasat demonstrates that both the secularists and the Islamists feel threatened. Many Islamists who participated directly or indirectly in the struggle against the secular government have moderated their views. Even the Muslim Brotherhood as a political force has had to moderate its views and in doing so alienated some hardcore supporters like Zawahiri. The losers in this situation are those who affiliate themselves with the extreme ends of secularism and Islamism.
2) I have challenged your observations on the role of the middle class elsewhere and I do so again here. The statement you're making about the middle class being apathetic or apolitical is not justified. It would be a serious mistake to underestimate the politics of the middle class. Unlike its Arab/Muslim neighbours, IRI has had thirty years of reasonably well-functioning, albeit restricted, democracy: no military takeovers, nor assassinated political opponents. Furthermore, protestors contesting the summer elections asked "where's my vote" not "where's my gun"? That's a significant indicator of the political maturity in Iran, in stark contrast to all of its neighbours. That will probably be the most likely reason that control of the conservatives will, at least, soften up.

You said it yourself: the only thing India has is population. Its population is large enough that it can blackmail foreign businesses by making them dependent upon their markets and/or labour. Other than that, what is India? A poor country riddled with economic and social problems (not to mention cultural impediments to advancement). But what impedes India more than anything is their slave mentality.

I understand that Egypt's rulers currently have a firm stronghold over power. But they lack popular support. And I think that wherever there is a lack of popular support, an organized opposition will eventually follow.

Arman · December 11, 2009

God willing Iran will be a world power the likes of which you've not seen before. With that I mean it will be a military power and the living standards for the citizens will be very high. Every Iranian should contribute within their field to this cause.

Let us look at the current big countries:

USA: military power, great at attracting foreign knowledgeable people and using them for their cause, however, living standards for majority below standards, steered by large powerful groups, everything below the higher class is going through social decay.

China: military power, man-power, great at reverse engineering everything, people starving to death, or being kept alive at bare minimum, people are being kept on a very tight leash...

Russia: military power, [Edited Out]py country really, very low living standards, corruptions all over the country.. I've heard stories from people living there you don't want to hear... the country is already decayed and is keeping up its image... or trying to better its image.

India: I'm going to have lol at this one. India is a laborer country okay. I don't mean the following as a disrespect to Indians: The reason its made to feel as part of the club is because they need cheap laborers and India delivers good laborers. They are used in Arabic countries and are treated like [Edited Out] really... no, actually [Edited Out] is treated better, it will be picked up with a plastic bag... Indians are kicked and beaten while working their ass off in these countries. In their own country the low laborers are treated no better, the so called 'middle class' laborers... or actually I should say high class laborers in India's case have an okay job with an okay pay according to their wage scales.... other than that... really... the state of Indian people in general is a very horrible state to be in... its one of the worst countries in the world to be in. Other than that there are some fields they're good at... but that will not change the country ever... as one Dutch politician who went to India said something in the line of, 'india is the most corrupt country i have been to, why is it even called a democracy?'... he was then slammed for that comment... India and China are really needed for their cheap laborers... however, China is very organised with its cheap laborers... hold a very tight leash on them and push them all toward a similar goal... which makes it very different from India.

Brazil: This country is like a combination of India and China.... also not a country you'd want to live in.

Europe: will probably be a county in a year or 10-15 from now. they're militarily quite weak... i don't consider them a world power.. not in the military sense anyway.. they're like an organized economic club and exert power through that.... the good thing some of the western European-countries is the new inventions they make, they're good at finding solutions to their problems and they're quite at keeping their people to continue with their stupid mediocre lives while they're at it.

Compare the living standards in Iran with some of the above mentioned countries and you'll get why its better. With the exception of Europe, in the above list... their main goal is advancement in certain fields and they almost forget their people while on their way to that goal. Iran does not do that. Because it doesn't do that, it has the unique chance of becoming a military power and at the same time raise living standards very high. Compare living standards in Iran every five years since 30 years ago, and you'll get what I mean. I foresee a futuristic landscape if things continue like this (especially in the last decade), with the added acceleration each time. There are many hardworking Iranians in all kinds of fields doing their best to advance us in every scientific field possible.

**Noah-** · December 11, 2009

What I hope is that it truly becomes an Islamic Republic, respecting human dignity and the people's God-given rights; encouraging the essence of the true religion of Islam and people voluntarily practicing Islam. Lastly, I hope they make major leaps in science & technology, industrial production and social & religious sciences.

I guess your true version of Islam is the same as Sadaat of Egypt. Where that ignorant low life insulted Imam Khomaini and said true Islam is found under his government and he was sent by God to do some kind of peace work in Palestine...but not knowing that the God of Abraham was about to punish him soon and sending him straight to hell.

Mehvish · December 12, 2009

I guess your true version of Islam is the same as Sadaat of Egypt. Where that ignorant low life insulted Imam Khomaini and said true Islam is found under his government and he was sent by God to do some kind of peace work in Palestine...but not knowing that the God of Abraham was about to punish him soon and sending him straight to hell.

I'm sorry, but I see nothing wrong in what Returniste said in his post? You cannot say that the Iran in its current state advocates the "true version of Islam". We can only hope that it moves closer toward that end. Even the Prophet did not force the religion of Islam down the throats of his people, whilst in Iran now there practically is no choice.

**Noah-** · December 12, 2009

I'm sorry, but I see nothing wrong in what Returniste said in his post? You cannot say that the Iran in its current state advocates the "true version of Islam". We can only hope that it moves closer toward that end. Even the Prophet did not force the religion of Islam down the throats of his people, whilst in Iran now there practically is no choice.

Who is forcing religion upon you? If you mean by governmental Laws... Show me a country in the world where government is just stand by and does not issues Laws and orders? Are we living in the Mars or what? You don't agree with their laws, bad for you. There are more than 180 countries of the world that I disagree with their governments and their laws, their judiciary system, economic system, enforcement codes, and on and on... and like me millions of other people disagree, but does that make any difference? There will be always people who disagree.....and in Iran no one is going to give up the will of 95% to fulfill the desires of a few percent lust, Leftists, addicts, and Zionist paid mafia supporters.

If we start an academic discussion, are you able to refute the practical laws and bring up the alternatives, the "true version of Islam"? Let me see, and please do not copy/paste cra...... from Muntazeri or Karim Soroush nonsense propaganda works. Your problem is not the clergy regime, your problem is not the true or faulty Islam, your problem is not Rafsanjani or Khamenei, your problem IS that you and people like you can't wait but to offer your submission to your masters in the West or to the Communist bloc, install a puppet regime, dependent and loyal to the Zionist mafia, drug business, free oil, anti-religion,

Mehvish · December 12, 2009

Who is forcing religion upon you? If you mean by governmental Laws... Show me a country in the world where government is just stand by and does not issues Laws and orders? Are we living in the Mars or what? You don't agree with their laws, bad for you. There are more than 180 countries of the world that I disagree with their governments and their laws, their judiciary system, economic system, enforcement codes, and on and on... and like me millions of other people disagree, but does that make any difference? There will be always people who disagree.....and in Iran no one is going to give up the will of 95% to fulfill the desires of a few percent lust, Leftists, addicts, and Zionist paid mafia supporters.

So you admit that most people in Iran do not want the status quo. I find it hard to believe that everyone in the world are "leftist-addict-zionist-mafia supporters". It seems as if you're just trying to throw around some fancy words, that you obviously don't know the meanings of. Kind of reminds me of the time I said the "f" word in the third grade...

The laws of a country should support the desires and the interests of its people. If it doesn't, its called "tyranny".

If we start an academic discussion, are you able to refute the practical laws and bring up the alternatives, the "true version of Islam"?

First of all, I do not believe there is a "true" version of Islam, and if there is, we do not know it. Of course we can certainly strive toward a society based on Islamic principles, but the Islamic Republic of Iran isn't fulfilling that.

Let me see, and please do not copy/paste cra...... from Muntazeri or Karim Soroush nonsense propaganda works. Your problem is not the clergy regime, your problem is not the true or faulty Islam, your problem is not Rafsanjani or Khamenei, your problem IS that you and people like you can't wait but to offer your submission to your masters in the West or to the Communist bloc, install a puppet regime, dependent and loyal to the Zionist mafia, drug business, free oil, anti-religion,

Well it seems you've already decided the result of this "debate" that you speak of. I'm sorry, but the Communist bloc soorrrt of collapsed in '91 so you might want to stop referring to them. I know, I was sad too. But don't forget, but the communist party also partook in the Revolution of 1979.

Your arguments are extremely fallacious. Disagreeing with the status quo Iranian regime does not automatically make me a Britney-Spears-loving communist drug dealer. This world does not progress if people stop being analytical and critical.

Aafreen · December 12, 2009

God willing Iran will be a world power the likes of which you've not seen before. With that I mean it will be a military power and the living standards for the citizens will be very high. Every Iranian should contribute within their field to this cause.
Let us look at the current big countries:
USA: military power, great at attracting foreign knowledgeable people and using them for their cause, however, living standards for majority below standards, steered by large powerful groups, everything below the higher class is going through social decay.
China: military power, man-power, great at reverse engineering everything, people starving to death, or being kept alive at bare minimum, people are being kept on a very tight leash...
Russia: military power, [Edited Out]py country really, very low living standards, corruptions all over the country.. I've heard stories from people living there you don't want to hear... the country is already decayed and is keeping up its image... or trying to better its image.
India: I'm going to have lol at this one. India is a laborer country okay. I don't mean the following as a disrespect to Indians: The reason its made to feel as part of the club is because they need cheap laborers and India delivers good laborers. They are used in Arabic countries and are treated like [Edited Out] really... no, actually [Edited Out] is treated better, it will be picked up with a plastic bag... Indians are kicked and beaten while working their ass off in these countries. In their own country the low laborers are treated no better, the so called 'middle class' laborers... or actually I should say high class laborers in India's case have an okay job with an okay pay according to their wage scales.... other than that... really... the state of Indian people in general is a very horrible state to be in... its one of the worst countries in the world to be in. Other than that there are some fields they're good at... but that will not change the country ever... as one Dutch politician who went to India said something in the line of, 'india is the most corrupt country i have been to, why is it even called a democracy?'... he was then slammed for that comment... India and China are really needed for their cheap laborers... however, China is very organised with its cheap laborers... hold a very tight leash on them and push them all toward a similar goal... which makes it very different from India.
Brazil: This country is like a combination of India and China.... also not a country you'd want to live in.
Europe: will probably be a county in a year or 10-15 from now. they're militarily quite weak... i don't consider them a world power.. not in the military sense anyway.. they're like an organized economic club and exert power through that.... the good thing some of the western European-countries is the new inventions they make, they're good at finding solutions to their problems and they're quite at keeping their people to continue with their stupid mediocre lives while they're at it.
Compare the living standards in Iran with some of the above mentioned countries and you'll get why its better. With the exception of Europe, in the above list... their main goal is advancement in certain fields and they almost forget their people while on their way to that goal. Iran does not do that. Because it doesn't do that, it has the unique chance of becoming a military power and at the same time raise living standards very high. Compare living standards in Iran every five years since 30 years ago, and you'll get what I mean. I foresee a futuristic landscape if things continue like this (especially in the last decade), with the added acceleration each time. There are many hardworking Iranians in all kinds of fields doing their best to advance us in every scientific field possible.

I'm honestly astounded by the analytical depth of your analysis. It's one thing to take pride in one's nation, but to become oblivious to its problems to the extent you have is just frightening.

Have you heard that the Iranian economy is in tatters? Its hydrocarbon exports (mostly crude oil) account for nearly 80% of all exports! And I'm sure you're aware of the fact that Iran's dilapidated refineries are unable to meet the demand for refined gasoline that has seen growth of 5% or over for years now, which is why Iran is a net importer of refined oil. In a country as volatile as Iran, very few are inclined to invest billions of dollars in building refineries--especially since the sanctions placed on Iran prevent it from acquiring advanced technology. On an other note, bonyads like the Imam Reza Foundation and wield unprecedented power and are able to do business tax free, thereby creating an unequal playing field and wrecking havoc with the Iranian economy. And a little nugget, did you know the second biggest export next to oil are chemical/petrochemical products and fruit and nuts at 3-4% each? Go figure!

It's dismaying to see people confine themselves to a utopian view of the world split between antagonistic poles. The conspiracy theories hatched to support such a utopian view unfortunately demonstrate that many on this board, and in the larger Islamic world are simply averse to critical, cynical analyses. Why do you think Iran has not walked off on its nuclear negotiations? It could simply say good-bye to the NPT tomorrow and many think it is that easy. The Mullahs ruling Iran are not as dim-witted as many might think. They know the dire consequences of leaving the negotiation table: they need to have the sanctions lifted in order to access technology needed to even pump the vast reserves of oil that Iran now has. The international arena is a an unequal playing field where might is right - the Iranian government realizes that just as well as anyone. In a few years the only oil Iran will have left will be the hard to get oil, accessible only by advanced technologies which Iran can't get unless it makes peace with the West. In short, cooperation is in the interests of both Iran, as well as the US.

Arman · December 12, 2009

Have you heard that the Iranian economy is in tatters? Its hydrocarbon exports (mostly crude oil) account for nearly 80% of all exports! And I'm sure you're aware of the fact that Iran's dilapidated refineries are unable to meet the demand for refined gasoline that has seen growth of 5% or over for years now, which is why Iran is a net importer of refined oil. In a country as volatile as Iran, very few are inclined to invest billions of dollars in building refineries--especially since the sanctions placed on Iran prevent it from acquiring advanced technology. On an other note, bonyads like the Imam Reza Foundation and wield unprecedented power and are able to do business tax free, thereby creating an unequal playing field and wrecking havoc with the Iranian economy. And a little nugget, did you know the second biggest export next to oil are chemical/petrochemical products and fruit and nuts at 3-4% each? Go figure!

Even though the economy of Iran is suffering, for many reason including the worldwide recession and other factors, The economy is in better shape, even with all the sanctions, compared to 95% of the countries of the world. Compare what you want, be it economy growth rate throughout the years, or living standards of the people throughout the years. The percentage of dependance on oil is getting less with each year and last time I checked we are least dependent on selling fossil fuels in the middle-east.

Furthermore, I'm not going to accept criticism of islamic charity organizations by dimwits like you.

It's dismaying to see people confine themselves to a utopian view of the world split between antagonistic poles. The conspiracy theories hatched to support such a utopian view unfortunately demonstrate that many on this board, and in the larger Islamic world are simply averse to critical, cynical analyses. Why do you think Iran has not walked off on its nuclear negotiations? It could simply say good-bye to the NPT tomorrow and many think it is that easy. The Mullahs ruling Iran are not as dim-witted as many might think. They know the dire consequences of leaving the negotiation table: they need to have the sanctions lifted in order to access technology needed to even pump the vast reserves of oil that Iran now has. The international arena is a an unequal playing field where might is right - the Iranian government realizes that just as well as anyone. In a few years the only oil Iran will have left will be the hard to get oil, accessible only by advanced technologies which Iran can't get unless it makes peace with the West. In short, cooperation is in the interests of both Iran, as well as the US.

Don't worry, the only one I think is a dimwit, is you. The consequences of leaving the IAEA at this moment can be very severe, because the next day they will fill up their media to brainwash their dimwitted people like you even more into thinking Iran is now making nuclear weapons for sure because they left the IAEA. What will follow is support for a whole package of heavy sanctions that can not easily be opposed and getting help from NAM will become more difficult because we have left the 'framework of law'. Its a pathetic spiral they create to push countries into submission.

**Noah-** · December 12, 2009

So you admit that most people in Iran do not want the status quo. I find it hard to believe that everyone in the world are "leftist-addict-zionist-mafia supporters". It seems as if you're just trying to throw around some fancy words, that you obviously don't know the meanings of. Kind of reminds me of the time I said the "f" word in the third grade...
The laws of a country should support the desires and the interests of its people. If it doesn't, its called "tyranny".

It seems you still use the "f" word in the same way 30 years after you completed your third grade, else you could put sentences side by side and get to the point... The laws of a country should support the desires and interests of its people, its MAJORITY of people..........lets say if a few drug dealers wanted their businesses to run free and government should impose addiction on people, should the gov. do that? Lets say if a few thousands people wanted to introduce Marxism in Iran and demolish all religion and religious sites (Stalin style), who is going to submit to their desires?

First of all, I do not believe there is a "true" version of Islam, and if there is, we do not know it. Of course we can certainly strive toward a society based on Islamic principles, but the Islamic Republic of Iran isn't fulfilling that.

This is exactly what I am talking about and that is what I was saying to the other guy in my reply where you came to back him up blindly. He is just like you, who does not believe in Islam at all, just like Karim Soroush, just like Sadaat of Egypt, but they hide, they don't confess that easily like you to tell us that they never believe in Islam to begin with........But, to confuse Muslims, to create ftina, and to create DIVISION amongst Muslims you come up with an idea of "Oh this is not even true version of Islam" lets find out some other version like Muntazeri's way, he seems a good guy since he is rebelling against his government." We know our true version of Islam, Shia Islam, and we like it the way it is.......you people who belong to different faiths and/or are atheists will never be happy with anything until your own desires are fulfilled and your own laws are imposed, even if majority of people suffer....just like the time of Shah.

This is enough of you, I thought you are here with your friend with alternatives of introducing true version of Islam.

Aafreen · December 12, 2009

Even though the economy of Iran is suffering, for many reason including the worldwide recession and other factors, The economy is in better shape, even with all the sanctions, compared to 95% of the countries of the world. Compare what you want, be it economy growth rate throughout the years, or living standards of the people throughout the years. The percentage of dependance on oil is getting less with each year and last time I checked we are least dependent on selling fossil fuels in the middle-east.

Yet another sweeping observation - did you care to reread what you wrote to see what you sound like? The profundity of your analysis amazes me.

Furthermore, I'm not going to accept criticism of islamic charity organizations by dimwits like you.

Fair enough. I'm simply trying to show people what they ought to be cynical and critical of. I won't lose a night's sleep over it. But at least, now you're aware that criticism exists of bonyads, not because they're Islamic charity organizations, but due to the manner in which they are run.

Don't worry, the only one I think is a dimwit, is you. The consequences of leaving the IAEA at this moment can be very severe, because the next day they will fill up their media to brainwash their dimwitted people like you even more into thinking Iran is now making nuclear weapons for sure because they left the IAEA. What will follow is support for a whole package of heavy sanctions that can not easily be opposed and getting help from NAM will become more difficult because we have left the 'framework of law'. Its a pathetic spiral they create to push countries into submission.

I sincerely thank you for the compliment! But I should warn you not to repeat the same word in sentences next to each other. It reduces the integrity of your prose and is indicative of a half-hearted effort. If you are going to insult me, at least make full use of your imagination.

As for your argument, I don't recall mentioning either nuclear weapons or the IAEA. Now I'm just offended at the fragility of your intellectual capacity.

mohalamine · December 12, 2009

It seems you still use the "f" word in the same way 30 years after you completed your third grade, else you could put sentences side by side and get to the point... The laws of a country should support the desires and interests of its people, its MAJORITY of people..........lets say if a few drug dealers wanted their businesses to run free and government should impose addiction on people, should the gov. do that? Lets say if a few thousands people wanted to introduce Marxism in Iran and demolish all religion and religious sites (Stalin style), who is going to submit to their desires?
This is exactly what I am talking about and that is what I was saying to the other guy in my reply where you came to back him up blindly. He is just like you, who does not believe in Islam at all, just like Karim Soroush, just like Sadaat of Egypt, but they hide, they don't confess that easily like you to tell us that they never believe in Islam to begin with........But, to confuse Muslims, to create ftina, and to create DIVISION amongst Muslims you come up with an idea of "Oh this is not even true version of Islam" lets find out some other version like Muntazeri's way, he seems a good guy since he is rebelling against his government." We know our true version of Islam, Shia Islam, and we like it the way it is.......you people who belong to different faiths and/or are atheists will never be happy with anything until your own desires are fulfilled and your own laws are imposed, even if majority of people suffer....just like the time of Shah.
This is enough of you, I thought you are here with your friend with alternatives of introducing true version of Islam.

786-92-110

Wa Salaam

I am 1000 % agreed with you on this specific point bro Someone50 ( I still fear and dislike Qaddhafi more and more lol !). those folks who thinks that the government of iran is not like western filthy "demo-crazies" in that the our noble islamic political mullahs are forcing islam like tyrants have denied the divine words in the holy qur'an .

Let's see if the attitude of Prophet Solomon (as) was a western demo-crazy "libertine free-doom " promoting type when the hupoo bird informed him about Queen of Saba (Queen Bilqis) and her people worshipping the Sun.

Bismillah Ta Ala

27:20-

And he reviewed the birds, then said: How is it I see not the hoopoe or is it that he is of the absentees? (20) I will most certainly punish him with a severe punishment, or kill him, or he shall bring to me a clear plea. (21) [b]And he tarried not long, then said: I comprehend that which you do not comprehend and I have brought to you a sure information from Sheba. (22) Surely I found a woman ruling over them, and she has been given abundance and she has a mighty throne: (23) I found her and her people adoring the sun instead of Allah, and the Shaitan has made their deeds fair-seeming to them and thus turned them from the way, so they do not go aright (24) That they do not make obeisance to Allah, Who brings forth what is hidden in the heavens and the earth and knows what you hide and what you make manifest: (25) Allah, there is no god but He: He is the Lord of mighty power. (26) He said: We will see whether you have told the truth or whether you are of the liars: (27) Take this my letter and hand it over to them, then turn away from them and see what (answer) they return. (28) She said: O chief! surely an honorable letter has been delivered to me (29) Surely it is from Sulaiman, and surely it is in the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful; (30) Saying: exalt not yourselves against me and come to me in submission. (31) She said: O chiefs! give me advice respecting my affair: I never decide an affair until you are in my presence. (32) They said: We are possessors of strength and possessors of mighty prowess, and the command is yours, therefore see what you will command. (33) She said: Surely the kings, when they enter a town, ruin it and make the noblest of its people to be low, and thus they (always) do; (34) And surely I am going to send a present to them, and shall wait to see what (answer) do the apostles bring back. (35) [/b]So when he came to Sulaiman, he said: What! will you help me with wealth? ( P 5+1 Economic incentives to halt iranian Nuclear enrichment) But what Allah has given me is better than what He has given you. Nay, you are exultant because of your present; (36) Go back to them, so we will most certainly come to them with hosts which they shall have no power to oppose, and we will most certainly expel them therefrom in abasement, and they shall be in a state of ignominy. (37) He said: O chiefs! which of you can bring to me her throne before they come to me in submission? (38)

...

prophet Solomon sent a messenger with a letter to inform and call them to submission; whenthey replied with goods and wealth then he threatened to invade them with a mighty army.

WAS PROPHET SOLOMON A TYRANT ??? YOU ADVOCATORS OF ALEISTER CROWLEY'S WESTERN FREE-DOOM AND DEMO-CRAZY TYPE OF IS-"LAM"??? ( "LAM" is A CROWLEY IDOL or DIVINITY ).

ISLAMIC REVOLUTION AND WF OF IRAN WILL LEAD THE WORLD OF BELIEVERS AROUND THE GLOBE TO ITS GREATEST HEIGHT EVER THOUGHT. ZHUL QARNAYN ( Cyrus = Persian king according to Makarem Shirazi and Sayyed Ammar) Will LEAD FROM EAST TO WEST THANKS TO IRANIAN SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT MAINLY IN "IRON MADE" TECHNIQUES AND TECHNOLOGY ( Q 57:25 and 18:96).

18: 84-97

Surely We established him in the land and granted him means of access to every thing. (84) So he followed a course. (85) Until when he reached the place where the sun set ( WESTERN DEMO-CRAZY and mainly AMERICA and its Zone of influence against Chavez & Al.), he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit. (86) He said: As to him who is injust, we will chastise him, then shall he be returned to his Lord, and He will chastise him with an exemplary chastisement: (87) And as for him who believes and does good ( like Hugo Chavez-Moralez & Al.), he shall have goodly reward, and We will speak to him an easy word of Our command. (88) Then he followed (another) course. (89) Until when he reached the land of the rising of the sun ( New Caledonia, Miconesia, polynesia, Papoua New Guinee, Tahiti...???) he found it rising on a people to whom We had given no shelter from It; (90) Even so! and We had a full knowledge of what he had. (91) Then he followed (another) course. (92) Until when he reached (a place) between the two mountains, ( Himalaya and Oural ?!)he found on that side of them a people who could hardly understand a word. ( Chinese ?!) (93) They said: O Zulqarnain! surely Gog and Magog ( Capitalism and marxism& leninism Communists) make mischief in the land. Shall we then pay you a tribute on condition that you should raise a barrier ( Islamic "China Wall" type ?!) between us and them (94) He said: That in which my Lord has established me is better, therefore you only help me with workers ( chinese and Indians labourers and man power ?!), I will make a fortified (Islamic) barrier between you and them; (95) Bring me blocks of iron ( Enriched Uranium Plates) ; until when he had filled up the space between the two mountain sides, he said: Blow, ( Centrifugation) until when he had made it (as) fire ( Power plant), he said: Bring me molten brass ( Nuclear fuel ) which I may pour over it. (96) So they were not able to scale it nor could they make a hole in it. (97)

and the "Metallic-Iron" Uranium of

57:25

Certainly We sent Our apostles with clear arguments, and sent down with them the Book and the balance that men may conduct themselves with equity; and We have made the iron, wherein is great violence and advantages to men, and that Allah may know who helps Him and His apostles in the secret; surely Allah is Strong, Mighty. (25)

Soubhanallah Wallahu Aalamu.

Surely the People of this verse

5:54

O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him, lowly before the believers, mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way and shall not fear the censure of any censurer; this is Allah's Face, He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing. (54)

Who do not fear the ignoble UNsecurity sanctions of the Satanic Western "Demo-Crazy" Zionists censurers can Fly high in the Skies of development ( Satellites and Space technology advancement very very soon).

Nobody can stop them if they keep steadfastedness without fear and endure calmly the misdeeds of Westernized hypocrits and evil doers.

Surat Al bayyinat : THE CLEAR PROOF

98:6

Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book ( jews, christians, muslims) and the polytheists ( buddhists) shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men. (6)

in Arabic, "fire of hell" is read : NARI Jahannam.

NARI read in "reverse engeneering" => IRAN ( the one who will cast a bullet of fire on IRAN will get the full vice-versa of his action that is : Hell fire = NARI).

I guess Khatami ( as iranian leader ) once said it to the french journal "Le monde" by 2002. ( i have no single respect for khatami anymore , I should mention it right there).

Long live the Islamic revolution of Iran, long live to its noble islamic scholars and leaders like the Rahbar Sayyed Ali Khamenei , Mesbah yazdi , Ahmadinejad ... Mohsen Rezaei the respected and dignified PASDARS and Bassij.

Down with monafiqs like MKO, Jundullah...Gullable people like Muntazeri, Saanei, Rafsanjani, M. Khatami, Karroubi and most notably the "green88" hypocrit movement spearheaded by moUSAvi and his JASON "Silvered hair" type of persian arya mehr Safavi Guru. ( cf Dr Ali Shariati and his works on Red and black Shiism as well as IBRAHIM ( Frantz) Fanon teachings).

TheHealer · December 12, 2009

Well some really intresting replies. To be Honest i personally think that some comments made by one of the posters are a

bit over exaggerated , Iran having better living standards than Europe ( western i assume] is going too far too early. Dont

get me wrong, i pray, it happens one day.

Personally , having lived both in Iran and in Saudi arabia,i find that Iran has quite some catching up to do with even

Saudi in terms of Infrastructure, Free education for all [ 25 % of GDP OF saudi for education !!!] , road networks etc....let

alone Europe in its Western dominion.

That said, i think Iran will survive as an Independant Sovergn Nation. But i personally see, it becoming a more of a liberal

democracy, in thirty years i see reformists of the Khatami kind winning elections more often than Ahmedinijad type

conservatives [ although i personally support the latter ].....

Religious wise i see the BABY BOOMERS of Iran becoming more and more [ how should i put this..?.] Liberal. Already if you

see on the streets the women support Oh! so tight Abayas, skin hugging jeans, Nicole Richee sunglasses,.....Guys with ultra

Western outfits..............a far, far CRY from the Iran i knew and my parents knew , in the good ol'd post revolution

days...........I know cant scientifically say street culture is the demoninator, but trust me....it speaks volumes.

That said the Hizbollahi folks will survive......definitely they will.

In thirty years time I see a more sober , but stronger Iran. I see an Iran at ease with its Gulf muslim states, i see

an Iraq where bombs are no longer a norm, of less sectarian conflict, of an up coming economy. I think a stable Iraq, will

eventually stabilise The whole Middle east, Iran including...

In Lebanon i see a prime minister from Hizbollah, in Syria i see a strong state ....a Syria as much at ease with Saudi as

WITH Iran.... Egypt i see, will be like it is, a sleeping Giant.Saudi arabia will initially become more hardline when

prince Nayf becomes king, but thereafter i see it softening its stance viz a viz Iran, Hizbollah.....

I think Isreal will still exist, Palestine i think will become more stable, economic wise and otherwise too....But the

conflict will remain...

Coming back to Iran, i think it will collabrate more and ease its stance on Nuclear techonology, USA i think will be more

under Democrats as Republicans will take a back seat.....that means they will be unlikely to attack Iran militarily.

Iran will become a major player in Middle east but not the ONLY major player...Saudi, will be equally strong if not more.

And that will balance the region .....but Iraq will sway towards Iran, so it will null out the effect of Egypt . Syria will

remain neutral.....Lebanon's support of Iran will be balanced by Jordans for Saudi. Golan hights will remain a contentious

issue.

Sanction will be eased on Iran, but not totally lifted.Taliban will be wiped out, Al Qieda will find it hard to get recruits.

Pakistan and Afganistan will start to find peace. Kashmir will still be under occupation. Lets leave India as it is, i

made the thread for Iran and the Middle East, so let be it..............

And yes Arman living standards in Iran will improve a great deal, rivalling SOME Western European nations.....but in 30

years time, not now , honestly..........

Wasallam

Arman · December 12, 2009

Well some really intresting replies. To be Honest i personally think that some comments made by one of the posters are a
bit over exaggerated , Iran having better living standards than Europe ( western i assume] is going too far too early. Dont
get me wrong, i pray, it happens one day.
Personally , having lived both in Iran and in Saudi arabia,i find that Iran has quite some catching up to do with even
Saudi in terms of Infrastructure, Free education for all [ 25 % of GDP OF saudi for education !!!] , road networks etc....let
alone Europe in its Western dominion.

Saudi has a 65 billion USD debt, spends huge amounts of money on useless projects. They have zero to none experience in anything, practically everything is done by foreign workers lead by foreign planners and foreign whatever. Same goes for the huge debts of the other Persian Gulf arab countries. Read the newspapers lately about Dubai having become as empty as a desert? I heard at uni last week that their main artificial island is sinking. UAE has four times the average debt of the other Persian Gulf arab countries!! Spending money, with what it seems like no actual thinking.

Spending money like this, while staying mentally backward (standstill), will bring them nothing. Compare that to the low amount of percentage of GDP Iran spends on military (even less than small countries, this is because everything is done internally), and practically everything is pushed to be done by internal people in all fields. Compare scientific achievements in Iran with the attempt of the saudis of buying science, lol. That fat man actually thinks that building a very large university campus and paying really high salaries to foreign professors to come teach there, will make them achieve something. You can not buy the scientific advancement of your people!! To scientifically advance you'd have to mentally change the arab people of that region!! This is something which is very lacking throughout the arab middle-eastern countries.

When I say living standards are raising, I mean that in every sense of the word. Its not some foreigner coming and rebuilding my cave to look like a palace. Or sawing off a mountain for me and build a palace on top of it (actual event in saudi, lol). One of these has a future, the other does not. The rate at which standards are raising are at a healthy rate... a healthy rate achieved by the people themselves, not something which is artificially being implemented by foreigners.

The citizens of these Arab countries are in some cases being fed, so they keep quiet, and in other cases are being kept close tabs on to keep quiet. However, once these fossil fuels run out, they will have nothing to offer to the foreigners. Their people will be forced to eat sand, but thats when its too late to do anything anymore. The west will not care, and let them starve to death because they will be of no interest anymore. The number one lesson these Arab countries should have learnt from the events that took place in Iran before the revolution, was that the US/west does not want to be our friend. They want to control us, they want to use us, they want to make us consumers and never become developers. Instead of learning from this, they ended up in the same miserable state we were in. The happy consumer state... drugged... under constant narcoses until its too late.

ImamAliwabas · December 12, 2009

I believe the answer lies in the youth in Iran and from what ive seen they are moving more and more away from the islam the last genration practiced. As this group gets older and bigger the anti islam camp will become much bigger and the older religious generation will die out. Iran could and properbly will become a secular anti religious style of state very alligned with usa and israel. Irans alliances today arnt reliable such as syria who i believe will betray iran if they get their guarentees fromm usa and israel someday. Pakistan Turkey Egypt populations are getting more religious and are sunni nations majority. The iraqi people are Irans best bet but big difference in the 2 nations cultures and outlook on islam. Put it short The WF wont be around in 30 years from now. If you dont believe me just mix with iranian teens like ive done and most are near athiest. Thats my opinion anyway although many fanatics will hate what i said.

TheHealer · December 13, 2009

Saudi has a 65 billion USD debt, spends huge amounts of money on useless projects. They have zero to none experience in anything, practically everything is done by foreign workers lead by foreign planners and foreign whatever. Same goes for the huge debts of the other Persian Gulf arab countries. Read the newspapers lately about Dubai having become as empty as a desert? I heard at uni last week that their main artificial island is sinking. UAE has four times the average debt of the other Persian Gulf arab countries!! Spending money, with what it seems like no actual thinking.
The happy consumer state... drugged... under constant narcoses until its too late.

With due respect, your view is totally clouded by your love of Iran [ good that the love is] and apparent media misinformation of Arab states.

Dubai's debt is an all together different matter. As someone who has visited Arabia [ saudi and other wise] in and out many a time during the past 14 years, i cant see sound reason agreeing with you. First this whole thing about oil and its dependance , and the paranoid if it eventually runs out, is a bit over stated always . Oil running out is a distant possibility ,yes, but we are looking at a not so distant 30 years here, remember ?You will be surprised to know that although oil accounts for 90% of Saudi exports but only accounts for 45% of GDP. .. 40% of GDP of Saudi is contributed by the private sector. Model economic cities and zones are being set up everywhere. Foreign investment in Saudi is massive. The mindset you have about Arabs and Saudis'' in particular is primitive... you think their younger generation is lagging behind you. They currently are producing home grown world class doctors, engineers and other professionals. I wonder whether you have any first hand experience of working with them. Are you aware that the chief architects and engineers for the Burg Al Arab and Palm Jumeera were Arabs ? Ten years ago in the supermarket in Saudi you did be lucky to pick anything with the made in Saudi label, today you did be lucky NOT to pick one. Dont think these Arab folks are deep in slumber anymore. Dont get me wrong, i am no advocate for Saudi or other puppet Arab regimes,far from it, but facts are facts. You can deny them alright, but that aint'' going to bellie the reality.............Foreign workers , ah, they can afford to pay them and allow them to send remittances back home. Iran stopped foreign workers from sending remitences back home in the year 1994 C.E. Iran will definitely progress, they have the right mix, but in what direction, is another matter all together. But so will the Arabs..............and by the way i am not an Arab.

And tell me about Iran massive developement, the day every household can afford Caviar for dinner......dont tell me the fish aint enough for that..

Wasallam.....and yes the Caviar.

motee' · December 13, 2009

I believe the answer lies in the youth in Iran and from what ive seen they are moving more and more away from the islam the last genration practiced
If you dont believe me just mix with iranian teens like ive done and most are near athiest. Thats my opinion anyway although many fanatics will hate what i said.

Bismill..

Asalamu Alaykum,

First off, I understand where you are coming from, but truthfully you are misjudging the iranian youth as a whole because of your experience with a certain group or type of them. Please don't get me wrong, I once had a very similar opinion and was completely certain that in the near future iran would consist of people that wouldn't be able to build the iran that was initially intended to be built. I seriously believed that all the men who were strong in their eman and steadfast in their Islam had become shaheed in the Iran-Iraq war. But I made one big mistake and that was to make conclusions based on the people I saw around me (i.e. the streets in iran, family members, and friends). Of course, the war did rob Iran of its most dearest and strongest people; men like Shaheed Beheshti who was truly granted a position worthy of him, shahada. However, men like the late shaheed, were not the last of the mo'menin. Not only do the shaheeds' names live on, but so does their teachings. They are alive, living amongst us, and teaching the youth about the beauty of Islam. Their training new soldiers. The power of a shaheed, the impact he has on society is so great, nothing worldly can ever stop it. Like I mentioned before, I wasn't always so sure about the iranian youth today, but I went to Iran about a year or two ago, and my opinion about this generation completely changed. I was gratefully able to go to a hosaynia (islamic center) which was apparently a "patogh" or "hang out place" for the young, religious kids in the city. I didn't think it would be a very popular center, as only a week before I had gone to a local masjid for salatul dhuhr to pray jama'a and only about 20 women, ages 55+ had shown up. So I typically was very skeptical about going to any religious center, but when I got only two streets away from the hosaynia, for a second I thought I was in the haraam of Imam Ridha (as), in Mashhad. There were hundreds of girls with chadors, a scene that I had only seen when in Mashhad. Before that, I was really starting to believe that "chadoris" had joined the category of endangered species. The program at the center was amazing; 99% of the crowd consisted of ages 16-27. Not one person said a word throughout the whole speech, something I thought we could learn in the west, both young and old. When the local Sheikh was reading dua, the walls of the hosaynia would shake from the voice of the crowd reading dua with him. I would look at the people in the crowd and there were young kids crying and begging for shifa'a. Later I found out the hosaynia has a very active website, where they put up the speeches live and have very useful discussion boards, I'm guessing since the youth run the place. For i'tikaaf, they have so many people who want to participate that they have to register weeks before hand. I was looking at pictures from the registration day and it was so crowded, I thought it was a jinaza. I was simply awed and thank the All-Mightly (swt) for giving me the opportunity to witness an event like that, so I could believe in success of the ummah and have something to look back to, on days that I feel hopeless about the direction some of us Muslims are taking.

Basically, their are still young, religious people in Iran; the above example only one of many I've had to prove it to myself. In general, the religious people don't end up leaving Iran and typically don't want to live in the very countries they curse every day. I assure you, there are still young people in iran, who are honoring the names of the shaheeds every day. The shaheeds did more than guaranty us an Islamic country, but let us use them as role models to show us how a Muslim today can try to "live like Imam Ali (as) and die like Imam Husayn (as)." I'm gonna make a statement which I don't need any scientific or political reasoning to make, but I have yagheen that a country, a nation, that was built on the blood of leaders like Shaheed Hemmat and Shaheed Motahharri, is going to be successful. Success meaning, it is becoming the building blocks of our Imam (atfs)'s government. No country today has Islam woven into it like Iran and iA under the guidance of our Leader Ayatoll.. Khamenei, we will be able to help him pass this country, this amanah to our Imam (atfs). Iran belongs to our beloved Imam (atfs) and he will watch over it, till the day of his reappearance, iA. He has done so, so far, as against all odds Iran has flourished year after year.

Above all, have no doubt, that if one day the enemy decides to harm our land and hurt Islam, our young men will be at the forefront of the battle fields. If Ayatoll.. Khamenei, tells our people to fight, the Shaheed Hemmats will take lead and the Shaheed Chamrans will fly from the west and join their brothers. Ayatoll.. Khameni mentioned this once, that he has no doubt if we were to be tested in that way once again, our youth would stand against the enemy just like they did 30 years ago. I must say though, he humbles us with the faith he puts in us. He also did mention, like he has done repeatedly, our test this generation is to build on what the earlier generations gave us, meaning trying to succeed in 'ilm, which Iran is alhamdulill.. The west thinks they can deal with Iran like they do with other "muslim" countries, but what they will soon realize is that Iran is not Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Turkey, or Egypt.

All the truth which has been said is from All.. (swt) and that which is not is from myself.

Edited December 13, 2009 by motee'

TheHealer · December 13, 2009

Bismill.. Asalamu Alaykum, First off, I understand where you are coming from, but truthfully you are misjudging the iranian youth as a whole because of your experience with a certain group or type of them. Please don't get me wrong, I once had a very similar opinion and was completely certain that in the near future iran would consist of people that wouldn't be able to build the iran that was initially intended to be built. I seriously believed that all the men who were strong in their eman and steadfast in their Islam had become shaheed in the Iran-Iraq war. But I made one big mistake and that was to make conclusions based on the people I saw around me (i.e. the streets in iran, family members, and friends). Of course, the war did rob Iran of its most dearest and strongest people; men like Shaheed Beheshti who was truly granted a position worthy of him, shahada. However, men like the late shaheed, were not the last of the mo'menin. Not only do the shaheeds' names live on, but so does their teachings. They are alive, living amongst us, and teaching the youth about the beauty of Islam. Their training new soldiers. The power of a shaheed, the impact he has on society is so great, nothing worldly can ever stop it. Like I mentioned before, I wasn't always so sure about the iranian youth today, but I went to Iran about a year or two ago, and my opinion about this generation completely changed. I was gratefully able to go to a hosaynia (islamic center) which was apparently a "patogh" or "hang out place" for the young, religious kids in the city. I didn't think it would be a very popular center, as only a week before I had gone to a local masjid for salatul dhuhr to pray jama'a and only about 20 women, ages 55+ had shown up. So I typically was very skeptical about going to any religious center, but when I got only two streets away from the hosaynia, for a second I thought I was in the haraam of Imam Ridha <img src='http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/as.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />, in Mashhad. There were hundreds of girls with chadors, a scene that I had only seen when in Mashhad. Before that, I was really starting to believe that "chadoris" had joined the category of endangered species. The program at the center was amazing; 99% of the crowd consisted of ages 16-27. Not one person said a word throughout the whole speech, something I thought we could learn in the west, both young and old. When the local Sheikh was reading dua, the walls of the hosaynia would shake from the voice of the crowd reading dua with him. I would look at the people in the crowd and there were young kids crying and begging for shifa'a. Later I found out the hosaynia has a very active website, where they put up the speeches live and have very useful discussion boards, I'm guessing since the youth run the place. For i'tikaaf, they have so many people who want to participate that they have to register weeks before hand. I was looking at pictures from the registration day and it was so crowded, I thought it was a jinaza. I was simply awed and thank the All-Mightly (swt) for giving me the opportunity to witness an event like that, so I could believe in success of the ummah and have something to look back to, on days that I feel hopeless about the direction some of us Muslims are taking. Basically, their are still young, religious people in Iran; the above example only one of many I've had to prove it to myself. In general, the religious people don't end up leaving Iran and typically don't want to live in the very countries they curse every day. I assure you, there are still young people in iran, who are honoring the names of the shaheeds every day. The shaheeds did more than guaranty us an Islamic country, but let us use them as role models to show us how a Muslim today can try to "live like Imam Ali <img src='http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/as.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> and die like Imam Husayn <img src='http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/as.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />." I'm gonna make a statement which I don't need any scientific or political reasoning to make, but I have yagheen that a country, a nation, that was built on the blood of leaders like Shaheed Hemmat and Shaheed Motahharri, is going to be successful. Success meaning, it is becoming the building blocks of our Imam (atfs)'s government. No country today has Islam woven into it like Iran and iA under the guidance of our Leader Ayatoll.. Khamenei, we will be able to help him pass this country, this amanah to our Imam (atfs). Iran belongs to our beloved Imam (atfs) and he will watch over it, till the day of his reappearance, iA. He has done so, so far, as against all odds Iran has flourished year after year. Above all, have no doubt, that if one day the enemy decides to harm our land and hurt Islam, our young men will be at the forefront of the battle fields. If Ayatoll.. Khamenei, tells our people to fight, the Shaheed Hemmats will take lead and the Shaheed Chamrans will fly from the west and join their brothers. Ayatoll.. Khameni mentioned this once, that he has no doubt if we were to be tested in that way once again, our youth would stand against the enemy just like they did 30 years. I must say though, he humbles us with the faith he puts in us. He also did mention, like he has done repeatedly, our test this generation is to build on what the earlier generations gave us, meaning trying to succeed in 'ilm, which Iran is alhamdulill.. The west thinks they can deal with Iran like they do with other "muslim" countries, but what they will soon realize is that Iran is not Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Turkey, or Egypt. All the truth which has been said is from All.. (swt) and that which is not is from myself.

<br

Walaikum Salaam

What a post !! so ,so comforting. You made my day.........And your statement '' in general religious people dont end up leaving Iran and typically dont want to live in the very countries they curse every day ,'' ought to be written in gold.

Wasallam

Edited December 13, 2009 by fahim

**Noah-** · December 13, 2009

I believe the answer lies in the youth in Iran and from what ive seen they are moving more and more away from the islam the last genration practiced. As this group gets older and bigger the anti islam camp will become much bigger and the older religious generation will die out. Iran could and properbly will become a secular anti religious style of state very alligned with usa and israel. Irans alliances today arnt reliable such as syria who i believe will betray iran if they get their guarentees fromm usa and israel someday. Pakistan Turkey Egypt populations are getting more religious and are sunni nations majority. The iraqi people are Irans best bet but big difference in the 2 nations cultures and outlook on islam. Put it short The WF wont be around in 30 years from now. If you dont believe me just mix with iranian teens like ive done and most are near athiest. Thats my opinion anyway although many fanatics will hate what i said.

This kind of analysis is very basic and comes mostly from western perspective in hoping to see a huge change in Iran turning everything in their favors with the 'new generation' more westernized and looking towards West for success and happiness. As I mentioned before, don't forget to look the bigger picture here...for Iranians be it at stat with this generation or in future generations there always must be some sources, some deals and some common goals to maintain the country and run it properly. Islam has been the base and foundation of all these, it is now in interest of Iran as a country to not separate Islam and state affairs...Iran can not run even its internal matters without Islamic republic.... in other words Imam Khomaini saved Iran in many ways doing the revolution and uniting people during the cold war.... by the time the Islamic regime is gone, you can guess 100s of gaps and attacks directed toward Iran... in the first few months it is going to lose all its influences in the region, in Shia world and in Muslim world as a whole...and a third or second world country becoming secular means becoming depending or even a puppet..and that means Iran is going to lose respect even in some other non Muslim countries. The ethnic/language and race differences will be targeting Iranian society directing it toward division and mistrust just like Afghanistan and Yugoslavia. You can see Iranian interests from any angle, it is depended on Islam and its religious leaderships...in a country like Iran you can have people who are not religious and more people may distance from religion in the coming generations but the country's interests as a whole lay in Islamic Republic and governance... and the political elites will always find ways in decades to come to maintain this type of government and its security.

**Noah-** · December 13, 2009

I am 1000 % agreed with you on this specific point bro Someone50 ( I still fear and dislike Qaddhafi more and more lol !).

lol you mean the king of Africa? :D He is trying to find the right path...inshallah he will become a true follower of mahsomeen some day.

Arman · December 15, 2009

With due respect, your view is totally clouded by your love of Iran [ good that the love is] and apparent media misinformation of Arab states.

My view of the arabian peninsula is not negatively shaped because of my love for Iran. I'll get back to this at the end of this post.

As someone who has visited Arabia [ saudi and other wise] in and out many a time during the past 14 years, i cant see sound reason agreeing with you. First this whole thing about oil and its dependance , and the paranoid if it eventually runs out, is a bit over stated always . Oil running out is a distant possibility ,yes, but we are looking at a not so distant 30 years here, remember ?You will be surprised to know that although oil accounts for 90% of Saudi exports but only accounts for 45% of GDP. .. 40% of GDP of Saudi is contributed by the private sector.

Visiting a country (or living there) gives you an idea of how the current state of the 'street' is... how the people live, etc. I am not talking about any of this, if you read again what I wrote above. Now I am no expert of the Saudi economy, and neither am I the expert of any other country's economy. However, CNN mentions:

"Last year it's estimated to have exported $165 billion worth of oil, around 90 percent of the Kingdom's total revenue."

Other sites mention this too. Wikipedia also mentions that 10 percent of the GDP comes from non-oil export.

Now even the above would not matter, IF they had something other than oil (regardless of wether they make money from it or not) that they are good at. Now with this I don't mean milking camels. I mean to be self-sufficient in important fields that could make you survive as a sovereign country, or to be able to protect your people because of it. Let me tell you that they're militarily 100% dependent on the US. In fact, let me tell you this. Were the US to drop them today, within a week their military would become in-operational for 99%. Their military is practically for a hundred percent maintained by the US. I remember a US military personnel on the internet saying how he was sent there to teach them about maintenance. He said they have no idea what they have to do, even when he explained it to them in detail. He left eventually knowing they're still at the same position when he came.

Model economic cities and zones are being set up everywhere. Foreign investment in Saudi is massive.

Nearly all of it goes to the oil sector to earn more money for their western allies right? Now that brings us back to where I was in my post.

The mindset you have about Arabs and Saudis'' in particular is primitive... you think their younger generation is lagging behind you. They currently are producing home grown world class doctors, engineers and other professionals. I wonder whether you have any first hand experience of working with them. Are you aware that the chief architects and engineers for the Burg Al Arab and Palm Jumeera were Arabs ? Ten years ago in the supermarket in Saudi you did be lucky to pick anything with the made in Saudi label, today you did be lucky NOT to pick one. Dont think these Arab folks are deep in slumber anymore. Dont get me wrong, i am no advocate for Saudi or other puppet Arab regimes,far from it, but facts are facts.

I strongly reject what you wrote in the first line about Saudi youth. I go even as far as saying that even if the youth had the potential, they could not educate them themselves. The following examples jump in my mind right now:

* The deal to teach 5000 Saudi students in the Netherlands to become doctors.

* Iran gets major revenue from people coming from the Arabian peninsula to get treated at Iranian hospitals.

* No job they take seriously would ever be given to a saudi firm (I know examples from people I know that worked there, one being the one I mention below).

* Their military is in total shambles, they barely know how to run it (one of the stories i wrote above).

Another thing comes to mind. I personally know the former pilot of kuwaiti monarch, and he was also offered a similar job in Saudi (he went there a bit and left). He stories he has told me, would really make you embarrassed to have written what you write. All of his stories involve incompetence and backwardness of these people in all levels. He received a huge salary, but he eventually left because he couldn't take it anymore and his wife and children refused to stay after a short vacation (he lives in the netherlands). Eventually he thought by himself, no money in the world is worth this and he left. He now runs an aviation law firm with the money he made.

In fact, most of the reasons for me thinking the way I do are because of either first hand accounts of people I know or because I have read from people on the internet having lived there (and worked in mainly the aviation industry).

You can deny them alright, but that aint'' going to bellie the reality.............Foreign workers , ah, they can afford to pay them and allow them to send remittances back home. Iran stopped foreign workers from sending remitences back home in the year 1994 C.E. Iran will definitely progress, they have the right mix, but in what direction, is another matter all together. But so will the Arabs..............and by the way i am not an Arab.
And tell me about Iran massive developement, the day every household can afford Caviar for dinner......dont tell me the fish aint enough for that..
Wasallam.....and yes the Caviar.

The sturgeon is almost extinct on this planet, so everyone eating caviar is out of the question. :P

Any country wanting to call itself a world power or a regional power must be at least self-sufficient in the relevant fields. But more importantly, it must have an independent leadership.

salam

Edited December 15, 2009 by Arman

Returniste · December 15, 2009

I guess your true version of Islam is the same as Sadaat of Egypt. Where that ignorant low life insulted Imam Khomaini and said true Islam is found under his government and he was sent by God to do some kind of peace work in Palestine...but not knowing that the God of Abraham was about to punish him soon and sending him straight to hell.

How on Earth does your God-given brain allow you to type such nonsense? I said respect for the will of the people and their rights; Sadaat was a military dictator and that was his government.

**Noah-** · December 16, 2009

How on Earth does your God-given brain allow you to type such nonsense? I said respect for the will of the people and their rights; Sadaat was a military dictator and that was his government.

Ok, then we will remove I. R. and bring to power a military dictatorship, how is that? ummm I never understand your point : D oh maybe with some pieces of 'true version of Islam'.

**shiasoldier786** · December 16, 2009

I believe the answer lies in the youth in Iran and from what ive seen they are moving more and more away from the islam the last genration practiced. As this group gets older and bigger the anti islam camp will become much bigger and the older religious generation will die out. Iran could and properbly will become a secular anti religious style of state very alligned with usa and israel. Irans alliances today arnt reliable such as syria who i believe will betray iran if they get their guarentees fromm usa and israel someday. Pakistan Turkey Egypt populations are getting more religious and are sunni nations majority. The iraqi people are Irans best bet but big difference in the 2 nations cultures and outlook on islam. Put it short The WF wont be around in 30 years from now. If you dont believe me just mix with iranian teens like ive done and most are near athiest. Thats my opinion anyway although many fanatics will hate what i said.

Stop being delusional.

There is a silent majority behind Imam Khamenei (HA). It will take more than a few youths from Northern Tehran to bring about the so called regime change.

Returniste · December 21, 2009

Ok, then we will remove I. R. and bring to power a military dictatorship, how is that? ummm I never understand your point : D oh maybe with some pieces of 'true version of Islam'.

My point was that you type unfactual nonsense to promote your argument. I never said Sadaat's military dictatorship was correct; it was you actually who brought him up. Howver, Iran today is headed toward a military/ideological dictatorship, as is obvious. The IRGC gain more power by the day and all matters, internally and externally, are seen from the tainted monochromatic prism of military/security interests. Please try to understand what I have said before replying.

Stop being delusional.
There is a silent majority behind Imam Khamenei (HA). It will take more than a few youths from Northern Tehran to bring about the so called regime change.

The silent majority are just struggling to survive a terrible economy, which is caused in part by a terrible government. Those who protest many different aspects of the regime and Khamenei's dictatorship and the creeping power of the IRGC are far more than a 'few youths from Northern Tehran'.

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