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In the Name of God بسم الله

could someone check this chain of narrators for me

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(salam)

having trouble getting these in reliable and weak narrators. if someone could please check them for me i would be very thankful jazka allahu khair

Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Ahmad al-Ilaqi - narrated that Abu Muhammad Al-Hassan ibn Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Sadaqa al-Qumi quoted on the authority of Abu Amro ibn Muhammad ibn Umar ibn Abdul Aziz Al-Ansari al-Kajji, on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Muhammad al-Nowafali al-Hashemi,

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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(salam)

having trouble getting these in reliable and weak narrators. if someone could please check them for me i would be very thankful jazka allahu khair

Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Ahmad al-Ilaqi - narrated that Abu Muhammad Al-Hassan ibn Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Sadaqa al-Qumi quoted on the authority of Abu Amro ibn Muhammad ibn Umar ibn Abdul Aziz Al-Ansari al-Kajji, on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Muhammad al-Nowafali al-Hashemi,

(wasalam)

(salam)

I quickly checked Rijal of al-Najashi (ra) and Naqd ul-Rijal of Tafrishi (ra) and Rijal of Sheikh Tusi (ra). Not sure about the first two, but I will check when I have some time to sit and read. I have to go right now.

ا

1. ??

محمد بن علي بن أحمد بن هشام القمي، يكنى أبا جعفر، روى عن محمد ابن علي ما جيلويه، روى عنه إبن نوح

رجال الشيخ , ص 446

2. ??

3.

محمد بن عمر بن عبد العزيز الكشي أبو عمرو، كان ثقة

رجال النجاشي , ص 372

4.

الحسن بن محمد بن سهل النوفلي ضعيف لكن له كتاب حسن كثير الفوائد جمعه

رجال النجاشي , ص 37

Can I also see the source of the Hadith you are quoting this Isnaad from, please?

- Mansab

Edited by mansab.jafri
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(salam)

having trouble getting these in reliable and weak narrators. if someone could please check them for me i would be very thankful jazka allahu khair

Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Ahmad al-Ilaqi - narrated that Abu Muhammad Al-Hassan ibn Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Sadaqa al-Qumi quoted on the authority of Abu Amro ibn Muhammad ibn Umar ibn Abdul Aziz Al-Ansari al-Kajji, on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Muhammad al-Nowafali al-Hashemi,

(wasalam)

The sanad is from Uyun al-Akhbar al-Reda (as) and it is weak as there are majhool / daif narrators. . .

حدثنا أبو محمد جعفر بن على بن أحمد الفقيه القمى ثم الايلاقى رضى الله عنه قال: اخبرنا أبو محمد الحسن بن محمد بن على بن صدقه القمى قال: حدثنا أبو عمرو محمد بن عمر بن عبد العزيز الانصاري الكجى قال: حدثني من سمع الحسن بن محمد النوفلي ثم الهاشمي

جعفر بن علي بن أحمد : الفقيه ، القمي ، ثم الايلاقي - من مشايخ الصدوق ،

العيون - مجهول

الحسن بن محمد النوفلي : ثم الهاشمي ، روى عن الرضا ( ع ) في التوحيد - مجهول

w/s

Edited by Jondab_Azdi
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(salam)

is this one weak as well?

Ahmad ibn Ziyad ibn Ja’far al-Hamadani - may God be pleased with him, Al-Hussein ibn Ibrahim ibn Ahmad ibn Hisham al-Mokattib and Ali ibn Abdullahb al-Warraq -may God be pleased with them- narrated that Ali ibn Ibrahim ibn Hashem quoted on the authority of Al-Qasim ibn Muhammad al-Barmaki on the authority of Abul Salt al-Harawi

(wasalam)

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(salam)

is this one weak as well?

Ahmad ibn Ziyad ibn Ja’far al-Hamadani - may God be pleased with him, Al-Hussein ibn Ibrahim ibn Ahmad ibn Hisham al-Mokattib and Ali ibn Abdullahb al-Warraq -may God be pleased with them- narrated that Ali ibn Ibrahim ibn Hashem quoted on the authority of Al-Qasim ibn Muhammad al-Barmaki on the authority of Abul Salt al-Harawi

(wasalam)

ok, i've jumped into the fray, and now i'm stumped. i looked up al-qasim ibn muhammad al-barmaki and couldn't find any info on him. is he known by another name? or is it just a case where it is not known whch al-qasim ibn muhammad he is?

or maybe he is a sunni? there is an abul salt al-harawi it says was a sunni (or rather, it seems there is a discrepancy between biographers as he is also listed as a companion of imam rida (A))

btw i am cheating at this and using dirayat al noor

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al-Qasim b. Muhammad al-Barmaki is majhool.

w/s

salaam

i guess that's another way of rephrasing what i wrote lol...... just out of curiousity, did you come to that conclusion from the lack of information about him, or did u find somewhere that he is actually named as being 'majhool'?

anyway shaykh saduq seemed to trust the narration or he wouldn't have included it in his works, it is in amali al-saduq as well

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salaam

i guess that's another way of rephrasing what i wrote lol...... just out of curiousity, did you come to that conclusion from the lack of information about him, or did u find somewhere that he is actually named as being 'majhool'?

anyway shaykh saduq seemed to trust the narration or he wouldn't have included it in his works, it is in amali al-saduq as well

(salam)

Jazaka Allah for your effort as well. I did not notice you said the same as he hmm, interesting.

from what i understand and have seen, shaykh sadooq has many untrusted narrations in his book and most likely in other books of his. and perhaps he should have known not to place these in at least some of them, but it seems he did not narrate only sahih hadith. perhaps brother jondab can answer about shaykh sadooq better then me as well.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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Shaykh Saduq mentioning any narration doesn't necessarily means he considered it authentic.

From the book 'The theology of al-Shaikh al-Mufid', . . .

"One should not act upon everything that Abu Jafar (Shaykh Saduq) has related if the sayings of the Imams are not established by reliable methods. For they are traditions of one which do not command knowledge or action. And their narration is on the authority of men who could have been negligent and mistaken. Abu Jafr (Shaykh Saduq) simply related what he heard and transmitted what he remembered without guaranteeing it."

w/s

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Shaykh Saduq mentioning any narration doesn't necessarily means he considered it authentic.

From the book 'The theology of al-Shaikh al-Mufid', . . .

"One should not act upon everything that Abu Jafar (Shaykh Saduq) has related if the sayings of the Imams are not established by reliable methods. For they are traditions of one which do not command knowledge or action. And their narration is on the authority of men who could have been negligent and mistaken. Abu Jafr (Shaykh Saduq) simply related what he heard and transmitted what he remembered without guaranteeing it."

w/s

fiqh is one thing though, if it's just a point of interest (and not an issue of 'commanding knowledge or action') and a debate with ma'mun, it's another. (and i dont know the source of the brother's interest in this particular hadith or not)

of course i am not saying that we should not take into consideration narrators or analyze hadith

being majhool makes the hadith dhaeef in terms of its technical classification, however it is not saying the hadith is false or finding fault for the hadith (especially in this case where it is not a bunch of random majhool names which could have come from anywhere). the only thing here is that that one narrator is unknown and others listed in that isnad are both known and spoken well of; that is worth taking into consideration as there are also grades of dhaeef.

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Shaykh Saduq mentioning any narration doesn't necessarily means he considered it authentic.

From the book 'The theology of al-Shaikh al-Mufid', . . .

"One should not act upon everything that Abu Jafar (Shaykh Saduq) has related if the sayings of the Imams are not established by reliable methods. For they are traditions of one which do not command knowledge or action. And their narration is on the authority of men who could have been negligent and mistaken. Abu Jafr (Shaykh Saduq) simply related what he heard and transmitted what he remembered without guaranteeing it."

w/s

Who Is The Author??

McDermott??

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(salam)

The hadith is clearly fabricated (Alhamdulillah the confirmation of a weak chain only i gives a third proof to this), it attributed things to yusuf and to adam that both one against what our imam's teachings, and about yusuf against justice. may Allah be pleased with yusuf and adam (peace be upon them both) it also had some flaw in it i noticed besides this.. one should consider such things as well.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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