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Iran: Ayatollah Saanei Slams Government Policies

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1/ Qum has many people in, there are many corrupt tendencies floating around Qum, I'm sure you've heard of Akram Majidi and his disciples such as Abbas Virjee and Muhammad Tajri and others (f you haven't then this site - http://www.guidance110.info/ - explains everything in their regard, and gives people the truth about this Sufi Cult); they were in Qum; and they are not the only ones; there are many. Many people "notice" these problems; and yes they try to counter it; they discuss (or attempt to discuss) with these people; there is a process that takes place; and it's not something that can happen over night.

There is a big difference between claiming to be a spiritual teacher to a handful of people behind closed doors then claiming to be a source of emulation for hundreds and thousands of people out in the public. I'll be a bit worried if you can't see the difference between the 2.

Thank you for clarifying President Hassan's previous quote, the wording he had used had confused me.

Salaam.

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There is a big difference between claiming to be a spiritual teacher to a handful of people behind closed doors then claiming to be a source of emulation for hundreds and thousands of people out in the public. I'll be a bit worried if you can't see the difference between the 2.

Ah I see, so long as it's only a few people you are hoodwinking, everything is pucker. ;)

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During that time however; people still shouldn't have been making his taqleed; as he was never one of the Maraj'e on the list provided by Jame al-Mudareseen. If they were - they now know the scenario and should change their taqleed; it's really quite simple.

Again, you are implying that any marja who is not on JM list is somewhat less than those who are. In other words, you are saying that JM has the correct list of top 6 and the rest are not_good_enough.

I answered his question; if you are unable to comprehend my answer then with respect; I nether care nor do I have the inclination to clarify for you further.

Is there any marja in JM? Yes or no. It's really simple.

No this is where people like you are mistaken. You have alleged that someone said something. You are then asking said person to confirm or deny said statement that you allege a third person has told you that the subject of the discussion has said - even though you have no evidence - real evidence to suggest he has said that except statements from those who have an ulterior motive and are working to harm Islam - not just Islamic Iran; but Islam as a whole.

So; with respect; you make the allegations that Ayatullah Amini(HA) said what PBS allege he said. Then with respect; Ayatullah Amin(HA) doesn't have to make any comment, doesn't have to confirm or deny anything; it is YOU and your friends over at PBS/Frontline who have to prove the allegations you've made. Ayatullah Amini(HA) is clear of what PBS allege he said; they have to provide proof he said it or withdraw their "evidence". You who believe it - but cast doubt on the words of Jame al-Mudareseen and allege that Jame al-Mudareseen are "politically motivated" are the real traitors to Islam; you take the word of those who are openly fighting Islam as gospel and even dare to have the nerve and arrogance to say that the victim has to prove they didn't say what the enemy alleges they are saying? Subhan Allah.

Enemies? traitors? fighting against Islam? allegations against Amini? What is that bro? Black and white? There are 5 more colours in rainbow and many derivatives. Please open your eyes.

Here is the thing. I have read the news item in foreign media and I want to confirm it from other sources, preferably Iranian, if Ibrahim Amini made such a statement OR if he denied the report from PBS; and here you are attacking me. What is that?

You really amaze me; and I wonder; really; whether you have an ulterior agenda; or whether you've lost your marbles as your nickname implies.

LOL – Will people stop telling me that I have lost my marbles? It’s a pretty boring and used-up joke. Please try new ones. *yawn*

Who I choose to make dua' for is my choice. (In case you didn't realise - HA and RA are forms of dua' for the subject of said HA or RA).

Incidently; it is not a mark of disrespect; just personal preference. My post; I can post how I want; if you want to put RA after Ayatullah Shirazi; no problem if you want to put HA after Shaykh Sanei no problem.

Okay.

I said Maraj'e AFFILIATED TO the Hawza Ilmiyyeh in Qum; I didn't say based in Qum. I think it's fair to say that Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani(HA) IS affiliated to the Islamic Seminary in Qum, whereas Ayatullah al-Udhma Fadhlullah(HA) doesn't have any affiliation to the Islamic Seminary in Qum.

Sorry, I thought you meant maraji based in Qom/Iran. So, are you just assuming that JM doesn’t deal with maraji who are not affiliated with Hawzeh in Qom or is it their official policy?

How Sistani is affiliated with the Hawzeh in Qom?

It would seem from your post that you want to find a problem - where none exists - you want to cause sedition and fitneh.

I pity you; really you're quite pathetic. May Allah guide you towards the true Islam of Muhammad(S) and away from whatever it is you currently subscribe to.

There was no need of this. It is very condescending and judgmental.

Edited by Marbles

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There was no need of this. It is very condescending and judgmental.

Everyone is used to it by now mate. His time spent in Qum did not increase his intellectual capacity nor did it improve his etiquette. I am fed up of reading his posts, each one of them has some sententious comment or the other. Rather aggravating.

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In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Again, you are implying that any marja who is not on JM list is somewhat less than those who are. In other words, you are saying that JM has the correct list of top 6 and the rest are not_good_enough.

No I didn't; I simply said that Shaykh Sanei wasn't on the Jame al-Mudaresseen list; it's pretty simple really.

Is there any marja in JM? Yes or no. It's really simple.

Is there anyone within Jame al-Mudaresseen that people can make Taqleed of - no, are there people in Jame al-Mudaresseen who are capable of being followed should they release their Practical Laws Handbook and allow others to follow them - yes.

But that's the point you see. If there was a Marj'a in Jame al-Mudaresseen - people like you and your ilk would turn around and say that Jame al-Mudaresseen is favouring Ayatullah X since he's a member of it.

With Islamic Iran and the Righteous Ulema with you people; it's a no-win situation; you just want to find problems and you want to badmouth.

I pray that Allah reward you Justly for what you do.

Enemies? traitors? fighting against Islam? allegations against Amini? What is that bro? Black and white? There are 5 more colours in rainbow and many derivatives. Please open your eyes.

My eyes are open; alhamdu lillah. I stand by what I said. Deal with it.

Here is the thing. I have read the news item in foreign media and I want to confirm it from other sources, preferably Iranian, if Ibrahim Amini made such a statement OR if he denied the report from PBS; and here you are attacking me. What is that?

Why the hell should he have to sit down and refute every last thing that is said about him? Do you think that the senior teachers of the Islamic Seminary have time to entertain fools and their propoganda rubbish? Subhan Allah.

Haven't you read Quran? Haven't you got it into your head that when the enemy gives a report - chances are that report is fabricated at worst and at best manipulative and tainted. Subhan Allah!

LOL – Will people stop telling me that I have lost my marbles? It’s a pretty boring and used-up joke. Please try new ones. *yawn*

People are not always joking when they tell you that you've lost your marbles; when I said it was deadly serious.

Okay.

Good.

Sorry, I thought you meant maraji based in Qom/Iran. So, are you just assuming that JM doesn’t deal with maraji who are not affiliated with Hawzeh in Qom or is it their official policy?

How Sistani is affiliated with the Hawzeh in Qom?

I don't know if it's the official policy; however; Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani(HA) has a significant office and presence in Qum; even though physically Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani(HA) himself is based in Najaf.

There was no need of this. It is very condescending and judgmental.

It was factual; and based on observations of how you constantly work to find problems; especially with anything to do with Islamic Iran. Like you've got a hidden agenda and vendetta against it.

Once again; I stand by what I said; deal with it.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Edited by shabbir.hassanally

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

(bismillah)

(salam)

very poor adab

shibby for shabbir

may Allah(swt) behaqe muhammad (pbuh) and ali muhammad (as) guide you

(wasalam)

You can keep your condescending, insincere prayers.. if it ever comes down to me needing them then I probably deserve to be in hell. Your outrage is nothing short of transparent and amusing.

I call Shabbir Shibby- you are horrified at my lack of adaab

He warns people that they are going to hell for disagreeing with him? Your outrage is no where in sight, hidden behind your self righteous hypocrisy.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

No I didn't; I simply said that Shaykh Sanei wasn't on the Jame al-Mudaresseen list; it's pretty simple really.

Is there anyone within Jame al-Mudaresseen that people can make Taqleed of - no, are there people in Jame al-Mudaresseen who are capable of being followed should they release their Practical Laws Handbook and allow others to follow them - yes.

But that's the point you see. If there was a Marj'a in Jame al-Mudaresseen - people like you and your ilk would turn around and say that Jame al-Mudaresseen is favouring Ayatullah X since he's a member of it.

With Islamic Iran and the Righteous Ulema with you people; it's a no-win situation; you just want to find problems and you want to badmouth.

I pray that Allah reward you Justly for what you do.

My eyes are open; alhamdu lillah. I stand by what I said. Deal with it.

Why the hell should he have to sit down and refute every last thing that is said about him? Do you think that the senior teachers of the Islamic Seminary have time to entertain fools and their propoganda rubbish? Subhan Allah.

Haven't you read Quran? Haven't you got it into your head that when the enemy gives a report - chances are that report is fabricated at worst and at best manipulative and tainted. Subhan Allah!

People are not always joking when they tell you that you've lost your marbles; when I said it was deadly serious.

Good.

I don't know if it's the official policy; however; Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani(HA) has a significant office and presence in Qum; even though physically Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani(HA) himself is based in Najaf.

It was factual; and based on observations of how you constantly work to find problems; especially with anything to do with Islamic Iran. Like you've got a hidden agenda and vendetta against it.

Once again; I stand by what I said; deal with it.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

786-92-110

Salaam

Bro ! please forget about these agents of InterNAZIonal Zionism cyberarmy soldiers, Let's just focus on the specific topics, there were a time i thought he worths something, but I realised later than sonner that the guy cannot live without a Zionist payment, so he just can't stop pooring the gibberish he of the zionist medias on this board !

I am ready to put my little finger on fire, if marbles can pass a month without posting from the guardian, bbc, or something. Be sure that the guy will be fired if he do not comply with the "rules of engament" !!! and with this recession in the west, there is no room left than working hard for his MASTERS, " work more, and earn more", that is capitalism.

I really don't care about marbles and alikes zionists garbages... only a notorious disbeliver can advocate secularism as if Imam Al Mahdi (aj) was not born or isalready gone (dead na ouzoubillah!!!). people like that, when the holy Imam ( aj) will reappears while they are living with their dear SECULAR SYSTEM, they will have nothing else to do than to find excuses to maintain their NEW WORLD ORDER of Nimrod, Pharoahs, Caesars, Chosroes...Mu'awiyya's rule, thus, they will keep confronting the Holy Imam's Wilaya (of our time as in 57:25)) and they will even ask him or his true followers for instance to compromise, "by force or consensus" ( what they are doing on this board with soft-war) so much so as to lem them rule the world with SECULAR "FREE-DOOM" !!!

As the Head Coach of the Satanic team is encircling IRI with terrorists murderers ( US led NATO International AL AHZAB Forces) from the right to the left, in front and behind...with sanctions and embargoes ; but they can't dare casting a single rock inside IRAN ( NARI jahannam for any arrogant and bully Invaders ) that is a clear proof -Al bayyinat- from the verse 5:54.

May our souls be sacrificed to help safeguard the wilayat al faqih hardly settled with the blood of the martyrs of the Islamic revolution under the guidance of Almighty God and the 12 Imam(as) with the leadership of Ruhollah Khomayni (rah)!!!

In Islamic government of our time, nowadays:

"Sayyid Ali Khamenei khayr'ul bashar, Wa man aba faqad kafar"

Ma'a Salaam

Edited by mohalamine

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786-92-110

Salaam

Bro ! please forget about these agents of InterNAZIonal Zionism cyberarmy soldiers, Let's just focus on the specific topics, there were a time i thought he worths something, but I realised later than sonner that the guy cannot live without a Zionist payment, so he just can't stop pooring the gibberish he of the zionist medias on this board !

I am ready to put my little finger on fire, if marbles can pass a month without posting from the guardian, bbc, or something. Be sure that the guy will be fired if he do not comply with the "rules of engament" !!! and with this recession in the west, there is no room left than working hard for his MASTERS, " work more, and earn more", that is capitalism.

I really don't care about marbles and alikes zionists garbages... only a notorious disbeliver can advocate secularism as if Imam Al Mahdi (aj) was not born or isalready gone (dead na ouzoubillah!!!). people like that, when the holy Imam ( aj) will reappears while they are living with their dear SECULAR SYSTEM, they will have nothing else to do than to find excuses to maintain their NEW WORLD ORDER of Nimrod, Pharoahs, Caesars, Chosroes...Mu'awiyya's rule, thus, they will keep confronting the Holy Imam's Wilaya (of our time as in 57:25)) and they will even ask him or his true followers for instance to compromise, "by force or consensus" ( what they are doing on this board with soft-war) so much so as to lem them rule the world with SECULAR "FREE-DOOM" !!!

As the Head Coach of the Satanic team is encircling IRI with terrorists murderers ( US led NATO International AL AHZAB Forces) from the right to the left, in front and behind...with sanctions and embargoes ; but they can't dare casting a single rock inside IRAN ( NARI jahannam for any arrogant and bully Invaders ) that is a clear proof -Al bayyinat- from the verse 5:54.

May our souls be sacrificed to help safeguard the wilayat al faqih hardly settled with the blood of the martyrs of the Islamic revolution under the guidance of Almighty God and the 12 Imam(as) with the leadership of Ruhollah Khomayni (rah)!!!

In Islamic government of our time, nowadays:

"Sayyid Ali Khamenei khayr'ul bashar, Wa man aba faqad kafar"

Ma'a Salaam

There there habibti. The nice men in the white coats will be along shortly with your meds.

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Now that right there is a majlis only two people will be attending.

Ya Allah

Salams,

I will be attending, anyone with open eyes and a free mind can comprehend and see the rationale behind the words of Sheik Shabbirh (HA). May Allah curse you and your likes untill youm al- kiyama. BTW, change your name, you do not live up to being called Zahrat Al-Islam.

Salams and Dua's

thewave

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I simply said that Shaykh Sanei wasn't on the Jame al-Mudaresseen list; it's pretty simple really.

Ok, good. Then everyone can go back to following Saanei :)

Actually I thought I would share a reflection of Grand Ayatollah Saanei's which is very non-polemical so we can all be happy:

The fundaments of Shiism are based on kindness, love, and affection as well as avoiding aggression, oppression, and crime. Man felt the detrimental affects of world war two with all his being and became disgusted with aggression, violence, and all that had been the cause of torment and persecution. Man has tasted the sweet nectar of justice and the observation of human rights. In the Shiite school, geographical borders, race, religion, etc is of no importance, but man himself is under the focus of attention in the true sense of the word.

This is apparent in our prayers too: “O God! Make rich all the poor, free all the slaves”. In this prayer, it is well evident that neither religion and geographical frontiers, nor race and sex are of importance here. This prayer is a clear manifestation of the Shiite Imams’ policy, and it is something that the Shiite culture is proud of. We must act and speak in such a way so as not to destroy all that glory with our own hands and take larger steps towards the stimulation and the correct advancement of the Shiite school.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

Ya Allah

Salams,

I will be attending, anyone with open eyes and a free mind can comprehend and see the rationale behind the words of Sheik Shabbirh (HA). May Allah curse you and your likes untill youm al- kiyama. BTW, change your name, you do not live up to being called Zahrat Al-Islam.

Salams and Dua's

thewave

Fascinating. Here are a few words I would not use to describe Shibby, his ilk, or his other accounts

free mind

open eyes

rational

Anyway, if Allah takes your dua or your curses seriously then I really don't want to go to heaven. I would honestly rather be slowly burning in the deepest pit of hell.

As for the nick, I will change it as soon as you become the "qaid" of the 313. No seriously, I promise. :angel:

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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Ya Allah

Salams,

I will be attending, anyone with open eyes and a free mind can comprehend and see the rationale behind the words of Sheik Shabbirh (HA). May Allah curse you and your likes untill youm al- kiyama. BTW, change your name, you do not live up to being called Zahrat Al-Islam.

Salams and Dua's

thewave

AW you must be Akbars age, add me on msn we can kill zombies together on xbox.

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AW you must be Akbars age, add me on msn we can kill zombies together on xbox.

Ya Allah

Salams,

Hmm, xbox, maybe if you spent less time playing xbox and defending the likes of ZahratCIA/CSIS, you could actually be a productive part of society.

Salams and dua's to the believer's.

thewave

Edited by Qaid313

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Anyway, if Allah takes your dua or your curses seriously then I really don't want to go to heaven. I would honestly rather be slowly burning in the deepest pit of hell.

In His Name, the Most High

Only someone who doesn't genuinely have belief in Allah; someone who doesn't really comprehend and belief and accept that there is a judgement on the next day can say something as pathetic as this.

I pity you. Say what you want about me; abuse me; insult me no problem; Allah knows the reality of my situation; and I am satisfied with Him as my Lord.

Yet you - I challenge you; in front of Allah - that you do not have belief in the next day nor in heaven not in punishment and hell; which is why you can speak in such a light manner about the punishment of the fire; who's fuel is men and stones

May your mother weep for you.

Shabbir

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In His Name, the Most High

Only someone who doesn't genuinely have belief in Allah; someone who doesn't really comprehend and belief and accept that there is a judgement on the next day can say something as pathetic as this.

I pity you. Say what you want about me; abuse me; insult me no problem; Allah knows the reality of my situation; and I am satisfied with Him as my Lord.

Yet you - I challenge you; in front of Allah - that you do not have belief in the next day nor in heaven not in punishment and hell; which is why you can speak in such a light manner about the punishment of the fire; who's fuel is men and stones

May your mother weep for you.

Shabbir

Bro I realize her tone is a tad harsh sometimes but underneath it lies no judgment on ones character or belief. All this while you, underneath your cloak of modest choice of words are able to challenge/assert what you have absolutely no right to. It is extremely surprising to me honestly since I always held even a modest level of islamic scholarship in very high esteem and gave you benefit of the doubt based on your credentials. It is funny how quickly ones perception can change and this time be disheartening at the same time.

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All this while you, underneath your cloak of modest choice of words are able to challenge/assert what you have absolutely no right to.

What modest tone? :huh: Condemning people to eternal damnation is hardly modest!

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In His Name, the Most High

Only someone who doesn't genuinely have belief in Allah; someone who doesn't really comprehend and belief and accept that there is a judgement on the next day can say something as pathetic as this.

I pity you. Say what you want about me; abuse me; insult me no problem; Allah knows the reality of my situation; and I am satisfied with Him as my Lord.

Yet you - I challenge you; in front of Allah - that you do not have belief in the next day nor in heaven not in punishment and hell; which is why you can speak in such a light manner about the punishment of the fire; who's fuel is men and stones

May your mother weep for you.

Shabbir

First, you have accused her of casting slurs on you while in fact it is you who all the while have been doing it. Second, you have called a Muslimah kafirah; an unbeliever. You most probably haven't come across the hadith which says that a person who calls a Muslim/ah kafir/ah is him/herself a kaffir. Third, you have cursed her by wishing death to her and pain to her mother who you do not know.

Is this exhibition of manners remotely Islamic? The answer is a big resounding NO. So much for your hawzah education.

There is a surfeit of self righteous hypocrites in the ranks of Muslims no doubt.

I sincerely thank Allah Almighty for not making you a Wahhabi because launching fatawa of kufr is still less problematic than trying to blow yourself up in a mall full of kuffar.

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In His name, the Most High

Salaams

I do not know of any Marja' Taqleed who agreed to Shaykh Sanei being a Marja' and source of emulation. Whether there was or not is frankly not relavent to me; as in Qum and Islamic Iran; where there is a Jame al-Mudareseen type organisation; they are the benchmark and they advise on whether a certain person is a Marja' or not. The investigations on Shaykh Sanei had begun a very long time ago; and like I explained in my previous post; these investigations do not happen willy nilly they are based on extensive research and analysis; and after giving the benefit of the doubt (Husn-e-Zann), so they do take some time.

In His Name, the Most High

Is there anyone within Jame al-Mudaresseen that people can make Taqleed of - no, are there people in Jame al-Mudaresseen who are capable of being followed should they release their Practical Laws Handbook and allow others to follow them - yes.

But that's the point you see. If there was a Marj'a in Jame al-Mudaresseen - people like you and your ilk would turn around and say that Jame al-Mudaresseen is favouring Ayatullah X since he's a member of it.

With Islamic Iran and the Righteous Ulema with you people; it's a no-win situation; you just want to find problems and you want to badmouth.

I pray that Allah reward you Justly for what you do.

How does one assert impartiality to an organization run by a former Iranian judiciary (ie, someone who has a history of working for the government)?

Furthermore, what exactly qualifies JM to be a "credible" organization with any authority whatsoever, aside from its geographical location?

It is interesting to me that the 6 ayatollahs on that list all happen to be of Iranian descent.

A brief assessment of the organization on any level would show just how limited the organization especially in terms of its membership and its supposed 'criterion'.

I am but a small student of Islam.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Its funny you say that, because the arrogance you portray in many of your posts signify the contrary. After all, what else qualifies you to damn those who disagree with your "political" views (if you can even call them "political") to hell, whilst you "pity" them as victims of CIA-funded brainwashing.

My eyes are open; alhamdu lillah. I stand by what I said. Deal with it.

The least wise are those who think they know something whilst being unaware of the fact that they know nothing at all.

On the contrary, the most wise are the ones who don't know anything, and are aware of this fact. If you the responses to your posts properly, you'd see that they do not in any way perpetrate any kind of ideology, rather they just disagree with your painted portrait of the cult-like ideologies that you seem to propagate over and over in your posts.

Furthermore, it is important to understand that secularism is not, in any way, "anti-Islamic".

After reading your last post to Zahratul_Islam, I seriously encourage you to reassess your arguments and approach on this forum. Your audacity and ill-mannered posts only goes to show how much you struggle to defend such baseless arguments.

Edited by Mehvish

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How does one assert impartiality to an organization run by a former Iranian judiciary (ie, someone who has a history of working for the government)?

Furthermore, what exactly qualifies JM to be a "credible" organization with any authority whatsoever, aside from its geographical location?

It is interesting to me that the 6 ayatollahs on that list all happen to be of Iranian descent.

A brief assessment of the organization on any level would show just how limited the organization especially in terms of its membership and its supposed 'criterion'.

Its funny you say that, because the arrogance you portray in many of your posts signify the contrary. After all, what else qualifies you to damn those who disagree with your "political" views (if you can even call them "political") to hell, whilst you "pity" them as victims of CIA-funded brainwashing.

The least wise are those who think they know something whilst being unaware of the fact that they know nothing at all.

On the contrary, the most wise are the ones who don't know anything, and are aware of this fact. If you the responses to your posts properly, you'd see that they do not in any way perpetrate any kind of ideology, rather they just disagree with your painted portrait of the cult-like ideologies that you seem to propagate over and over in your posts.

Furthermore, it is important to understand that secularism is not, in any way, "anti-Islamic".

After reading your last post to Zahratul_Islam, I seriously encourage you to reassess your arguments and approach on this forum. Your audacity and ill-mannered posts only goes to show how much you struggle to defend such baseless arguments.

In His Name, the Most High

We become upset; because there are munafeqeen amongst the members of this respected forum; they know who they are; they have but one agenda to take anything statement and turn it against the true Islam of Muhammad(S) and against Islamic Iran. Those people are the lowest form of life; and they are the cursed inhabitants of hell. I pity them; because they are given the truth; but like the Yazidite forces that faught our Master, Aba Abdillah al-Husayn(A); they are unable to see the truth on account of the excessive haram they have consumed.

May their mothers weep profusely for them.

Yes; I am harsh; because when dealing with munafeqeen and those who want to harm Islam; harshness is the only way; we have provided ample evidence; ample proof that those who are honest and objective can see and realise the reality of the situation; and understand that there is excessive psychological war against the true Islam of Muhammad(S) and against Islamic Iran.

I never see such venomous and convinces anger and instigation agaisnt reports about the activity and crimes of the Zionist Entity; or against the Amerikkkan Empire and it's allies. No I see silence in most cases; with a passing comment here and there at times from those munafeqeen. But come the true Islam of Muhammad(S), come Hizbullah come Islamic Iran, come our oppressed brethren in Palestine, Yemen and elsewhere; all I see is venom from the inheritors of Quttam and Hind, the inheritors of Abu Sufyaan and Muawiyyah.

It is well known that there are many people on this forum who are implanted and have a single agenda - to speak against and harm the true Islam of Muhammad(S) and Islamic Iran and the Righteous Islamic Leadership.

No I do not appologise for my harshness; infact I believe I am not being harsh enough.

May their mothers curse the day they gave birth to such enemies of Allah.

Whatever evidence we give them, whatever proof we give them, whatever logic we give them; they will not see the truth; because of the haram they have swallowed. Truely they are the most cursed, pathetic and miserable of creatures.

"To you your way; to us ours; and sufficient for us is Allah as a judge between you and between us; and He is the best of Judges"

(Quran)

Incidently; secularism is COMPLETELY anti-Islamic. In Islam the total authority - temporal and spiritual (if such a separation can even be made) is for Allah. We are not those "Muslims" who "render unto Ceaser what is ceasers and unto God what is Gods". Islam is the governance of Allah, by Allah for the sake of Allah. It is not "for the people by the people". Islam is infallible; people are fallible. We do not follow an ideology that is fallible because it is broken and imperfect. We follow the true Islam of Muhammad(S); a system that is infallible; that is from Allah; the Creator of the Universes.

To even suggest that secularism is not anti-Islam tells me how far you are from the true Islam of Muhammad(S). Secularism allows humans to equate themselves to God; and to make "laws" without reliance on God. This is the most baseline form of polytheism; the humanity being the partner to God; this is unacceptable and sickening. For you to suggest this; tells me how far from the true Islam of Muhammad(S) you are.

Incidently; secularism has been destroyed in Quran - you know the constitution of Islam; the manual of Islam; the divine guidance from Allah. You might want to read it and reflect on it.

Shabbir

Edited by shabbir.hassanally

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The Imams and their companions went through much harder times then we ever will yet I have never red or heard of any incident where they would act ill-mannered, disrespectful or unethical because of it, so don't use 'the abundance of enemies' or 'the difficulties of the time' as an excuse to your detestable etiquette.

Honourable ettiquettes were so important to Imam Ali that it is narrated he has said "I prefer to be overcome whilst being just, rather than to be triumphant by being unjust".

Maybe we can all learn a lesson or two from how our Imams would conduct themselves in the face of their enemies...

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In His Name, the Most High

We become upset; because there are munafeqeen amongst the members of this respected forum; they know who they are; they have but one agenda to take anything statement and turn it against the true Islam of Muhammad(S) and against Islamic Iran. Those people are the lowest form of life; and they are the cursed inhabitants of hell. I pity them; because they are given the truth; but like the Yazidite forces that faught our Master, Aba Abdillah al-Husayn(A); they are unable to see the truth on account of the excessive haram they have consumed.

May their mothers weep profusely for them.

Yes; I am harsh; because when dealing with munafeqeen and those who want to harm Islam; harshness is the only way; we have provided ample evidence; ample proof that those who are honest and objective can see and realise the reality of the situation; and understand that there is excessive psychological war against the true Islam of Muhammad(S) and against Islamic Iran.

I never see such venomous and convinces anger and instigation agaisnt reports about the activity and crimes of the Zionist Entity; or against the Amerikkkan Empire and it's allies. No I see silence in most cases; with a passing comment here and there at times from those munafeqeen. But come the true Islam of Muhammad(S), come Hizbullah come Islamic Iran, come our oppressed brethren in Palestine, Yemen and elsewhere; all I see is venom from the inheritors of Quttam and Hind, the inheritors of Abu Sufyaan and Muawiyyah.

It is well known that there are many people on this forum who are implanted and have a single agenda - to speak against and harm the true Islam of Muhammad(S) and Islamic Iran and the Righteous Islamic Leadership.

absolutely no one here has posted anything against the Islamic teachings of Prophet Muhammad. The moderators of this forum do a pretty good job in censoring blatant attacks toward the infallibles. Might I also take this opportunity to remind you that there were only 14 infallibles. None of the 14 include Ayatollah Khomeini, Khameini, or any of the people you so vigorously and blindly defend.

No I do not appologise for my harshness; infact I believe I am not being harsh enough.

May their mothers curse the day they gave birth to such enemies of Allah.

I think you're just trying to spite people now, and its working just so you know. I know I can be inappropriate sometimes in my posts, but even my stupid half-hearted comments I sometimes make in other threads in no way can top the undignified and baseless attacks you make over and over again.

I'll admit, when I was younger I did support WF and the policies of the Iranian government because I listened to the likes of you. There came a day where I simply could not condition myself to accept such irrationalities, and in fact, I do not think its possible for anyone to condition themselves that way as much as we try. I am certain it is the case for you too, or you would not need to continuously hope that our mothers are crying over our existences, damn us to hell and "pity" us.

Whatever evidence we give them, whatever proof we give them, whatever logic we give them; they will not see the truth; because of the haram they have swallowed. Truely they are the most cursed, pathetic and miserable of creatures.

I'm sorry, but where is your proof? I've read every single one of your posts in this thread, haven't found anything that one would classify as "proof".

Incidently; secularism is COMPLETELY anti-Islamic. In Islam the total authority - temporal and spiritual (if such a separation can even be made) is for Allah. We are not those "Muslims" who "render unto Ceaser what is ceasers and unto God what is Gods". Islam is the governance of Allah, by Allah for the sake of Allah. It is not "for the people by the people". Islam is infallible; people are fallible. We do not follow an ideology that is fallible because it is broken and imperfect. We follow the true Islam of Muhammad(S); a system that is infallible; that is from Allah; the Creator of the Universes.

Saint Augustine would reply that the City of God is too divine to be a material entity.

To even suggest that secularism is not anti-Islam tells me how far you are from the true Islam of Muhammad(S). Secularism allows humans to equate themselves to God; and to make "laws" without reliance on God. This is the most baseline form of polytheism; the humanity being the partner to God; this is unacceptable and sickening. For you to suggest this; tells me how far from the true Islam of Muhammad(S) you are.

Incidently; secularism has been destroyed in Quran - you know the constitution of Islam; the manual of Islam; the divine guidance from Allah. You might want to read it and reflect on it.

Shabbir

Do you even know what secularism means?

And yes, I've read the Quran. For some reason I couldn't find anything in there that has to do with the "point" you're trying to make ;)

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absolutely no one here has posted anything against the Islamic teachings of Prophet Muhammad. The moderators of this forum do a pretty good job in censoring blatant attacks toward the infallibles. Might I also take this opportunity to remind you that there were only 14 infallibles. None of the 14 include Ayatollah Khomeini, Khameini, or any of the people you so vigorously and blindly defend.

I think you're just trying to spite people now, and its working just so you know. I know I can be inappropriate sometimes in my posts, but even my stupid half-hearted comments I sometimes make in other threads in no way can top the undignified and baseless attacks you make over and over again.

I'll admit, when I was younger I did support WF and the policies of the Iranian government because I listened to the likes of you. There came a day where I simply could not condition myself to accept such irrationalities, and in fact, I do not think its possible for anyone to condition themselves that way as much as we try. I am certain it is the case for you too, or you would not need to continuously hope that our mothers are crying over our existences, damn us to hell and "pity" us.

I'm sorry, but where is your proof? I've read every single one of your posts in this thread, haven't found anything that one would classify as "proof".

Saint Augustine would reply that the City of God is too divine to be a material entity.

Do you even know what secularism means?

And yes, I've read the Quran. For some reason I couldn't find anything in there that has to do with the "point" you're trying to make ;)

In His Name, the Most High

As for what Secularism means:

1. Religious skepticism or indifference.

2. The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education

1. (Philosophy) Philosophy a doctrine that rejects religion, esp in ethics

2. the attitude that religion should have no place in civil affairs

3. the state of being secular

1. a view that religion and religious considerations should be ignored or excluded from social and political matters.

2. an ethical system asserting that moral judgments should be made without reference to religious doctrine, as reward or punishment in an afterlife. — secularist, n., adj. — secularistic, adj.

Defintions are those accepted as the "norm" - Taken from: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/secularism

If you think that defintions of Secularism are in sync with Islam; then with respect; you are so distant from Islam it is insane.

Again; I stand by what I said; and like I've said; we have provided you with countless proofs through many many threads; and you and your ilk have const constantly chosent to reject the proofs. Then may your rejection help on the day when the souls are sorted; we no longer have any connection with you and disassociate from you and your confused associated.

"To you your way; to us ours; and sufficient for us is Allah as a judge between you and between us; and He is the best of Judges"

(Quran)

Shabbir

Edited by shabbir.hassanally

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First, you have accused her of casting slurs on you while in fact it is you who all the while have been doing it. Second, you have called a Muslimah kafirah; an unbeliever. You most probably haven't come across the hadith which says that a person who calls a Muslim/ah kafir/ah is him/herself a kaffir. Third, you have cursed her by wishing death to her and pain to her mother who you do not know.

Is this exhibition of manners remotely Islamic? The answer is a big resounding NO. So much for your hawzah education.

There is a surfeit of self righteous hypocrites in the ranks of Muslims no doubt.

I sincerely thank Allah Almighty for not making you a Wahhabi because launching fatawa of kufr is still less problematic than trying to blow yourself up in a mall full of kuffar.

She was kind of asking for it mr.philosopher:

"Anyway, if Allah takes your dua or your curses seriously then I really don't want to go to heaven. I would honestly rather be slowly burning in the deepest pit of hell."

And why do you feel the urge to educate others on what is kufr and what is not? Are you an avid hadith reader? Do you have any knowledge on which hadith is authentic or which is not? Do you even know Zahra personally to know that she is a muslim or not? Hell even george bush can come on this site and call himself for Ya Hussein and pretend to be muslim, doesn't make it so. Yazid and Muawiya called themselves for muslims too, im guessing its wrong to curse them right? Try digging another hole, maybe you'll find something useful to say.

Who gave you the authority to judge his hawzah education, have you gone to hawzah? Or is google your only source of Islamic Education?

You roam this site like you are the right hand of Imam Zaman, i'm surprised you head hasn't hit any rocks yet.

Edited by repenter

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Incidently; secularism is COMPLETELY anti-Islamic. In Islam the total authority - temporal and spiritual (if such a separation can even be made) is for Allah. We are not those "Muslims" who "render unto Ceaser (sic) what is ceasers (sic) and unto God what is Gods". Islam is the governance of Allah, by Allah for the sake of Allah. It is not "for the people by the people". Islam is infallible; people are fallible. We do not follow an ideology that is fallible because it is broken and imperfect. We follow the true Islam of Muhammad(S); a system that is infallible; that is from Allah; the Creator of the Universes.

Unfortunately God does not walk the earth in human form to direct us.

Unfortunately there are no infallible human beings giving interviews.

Just millions and billions of human beings of various levels of fallibility. The religion as it is in Essence with God is perfect and infallible, no doubt. But the fact remains that it is mediated to us through fallible teachers, fallible leaders. From what I read, it seems that you take it as an article of faith that a hawza education in recent decades is the surest path to reducing fallibility, and that therefore it is most sensible to put these individuals in political leadership. That’s your political philosophy. Good for you. It’s not for me, and not for others.

Fact of the matter is this. Mankind over the centuries and millennia has developed, much as a child starts as a baby and grows and matures. God’s desire is that we become an adult humanity. As a species, we are still very childlike. The goal of messengers, prophets, and imams was to help us in this development. About 1400 years ago, the age of prophecy ended. Childhood finished, and on to adolescence. A short period of direct guidance by imams followed to help transition beyond this age to the new age of reason, to help guide mankind get some tools to move through adolescence. And then, 1200 years ago, even this imamate steps temporarily away, much as a parent steps back to give a child in his later adolescence the room to develop. The imam, much like a good parent, does not leave the adolescent humanity alone, but leaves the marjaiyyah as a final training wheel, a reminder of the teachings of the prophets and aimmah. The goal, the mission of the marjaiyyah is not to rule over mankind, but to help humanity in its task of “growing up.” Khomeini’s WF sees this adolescent state almost as the inevitable state of mankind, requiring the maraja, led by a WF, to oversee humanity as a sort of substitute foster parent in lieu of the imam. But the purpose is to help mankind rather grow beyond this, to prepare an adult humanity grounded in religious values, in the sciences necessary to master the world around them and their relations with each other, intelligent and able to think for themselves. To produce an adult humanity for the Imam to lead.

Earlier imams suffered precisely from the lack of a developed, adult humanity. Much as in a functional business, the boss requires people who are not only willing to blindly obey orders, but people who can combine this with an ability to work autonomously, taking general directives and having the intelligence to efficiently fill in the details themselves and carry them out, the imam requires similarly developed people. Now, to be fair, the IRI has had some considerable success in this regard. It took a nation with a small educated elite and a huge mass of ignorant, illiterate peasants and helped them to develop, raising their standard of living, raising literacy, raising technology and industry, raising the people’s political awareness, widening the educated middle class, enabling the development of a civil society. The leadership from the marjaiyyah has done relatively well, despite inevitable mistakes. The people have matured.

Now is the time for them to step back to a purely advisory role to allow the Iranian people to practice taking care of themselves, in a word, to practice being adults. This is the true path forward now to prepare the way for the imam. The marjaiyyah can have the sense to help, or they can stand in the way. The choice is open to them.

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