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Iran: Ayatollah Saanei Slams Government Policies

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(salam)

Bro Shabbir,

You always quote people (Ayatullah) who support your position but dismiss people (Ayatullah Sanei, Ayatullah Montazeri) who do not support your position. That is how you choose to view politics.I don't. I think both sides should be heard even when they disagree.

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

With respect sister; I advised you to refrain from typing when you didn't understand the situation; you have chosen to ignore that advice; on your head be it.

Now for your so-called "point":

I don't dismiss anyone; and remember this - remember it very well - understand on it and reflect on it:

If a person - regardless of how learnred or brilliant or even "pious" said person might be - if they disobey Allah; they go against Islam; then they are lower than the lowest of the low. This is well known and understood by anyone who has even the slightest appreciation of Tafseer and Quranic thought.

Let me remind you; Shaytaan; was a very high Alem; Abu Musa Ashari, Talha and Zubayr, Umar ibn Sa'ad, Shimr ibn Dhiljawshan was a great Alem, as were Ubaydullah ibn Abbas and Ubaydullah ibn Ziyad and so on; yet the moment they betrayed Islam; the moment they rejected a command of Allah and went against Truth and Justice; they were classed as being lower than the lowest of the low. This is Islam my dear respected sister.

Islam is not some wishy washy waffle; this is the most perfect system for the betterment and progress of humanity towards the Absolute Perfection. If someone chooses - through their own volition and with understanding a line that is distanced from the true Islam of Muhammad(S); then quite frankly; may that person's mother curse the day that she became pregnant with such a person.

So please try to understand and if you don't get it - stay away from such discussions lest in your zeal to go against individuals and their stance, and to appear to be "politically correct", you destroy your soul and become from the losers.

I really hope this time you will take my advice, my dear and respected sister.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

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(salam)

Bro Shabbir,

You always quote people (Ayatullah) who support your position but dismiss people (Ayatullah Sanei, Ayatullah Montazeri) who do not support your position. That is how you choose to view politics.I don't. I think both sides should be heard even when they disagree.

I can't speak for Bro Shabbir, but it's not just a matter of differences in opinion is it?

One of the clerics that you refer to Ayatullah Sanei. Let's assume his opinion is as valid as that of other clerics. But then I read about him in favourable terms in newspapers and magazines that were uncritical of the invasion of Iraq (before it took place), have a tendency to publish Islamophobic news stories, and generally tend to favour the Zionist agenda. In short publications that have no love for Islam or Muslims - to put it bluntly.

I then ask myself why do these publications support Sanei? Is it because he is someone who will further the Iranian national interest or their vested interests? And given the track record of these publications, I am sorry but their support detracts from any credibility that he may have.

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(salam)

Bro Shabbir,

You always quote people (Ayatullah) who support your position but dismiss people (Ayatullah Sanei, Ayatullah Montazeri) who do not support your position. That is how you choose to view politics.I don't. I think both sides should be heard even when they disagree.

To hear someone is not equal to side with someone. Both sides should be heard even when they disagree, but when it comes to agreement or when you side, you need to make your mind and pick one. The problem in such cases is that, both sides (Ayatollahs) declare their ruling on one single specific matter; one group of them say the problem is white and the other say it is black...after reviewing their logical explanation people side with them according to their beliefs and good logical rulings.

But, the question is should be raised to those who side with some Ayatollahs who do not believe in the term "Ayatollah" at first place; they were calling dictators and other names to the very same Ayatollahs yesterday that they support today...because they suit their political opposition to the Iranian government.. They take it politically to use them for their advantages.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

While that may have an element of truth in it; it doesn't render him infallible or imune for failure. Mr Saanei has always - and this is well known and well accepted - has always been a little niave if not ignorant politically speaking and he is also considered to have "light ears" - meaning that he's guillible and easily influenced.

Well known and well accepted by? People who agree with you? You can't possibly be suggesting anyone take you seriously when you criticize someone else and their knowledge of politics. No really, lets keep it real. You know jack.

With the utmost of respect sister; in these matters - matters related to Islamic Iran, Wilayat al-Faqih, etc - you have time and time again exposed your ignorance and niavety. My advice to you is very simple; if you don't have full understanding of a given situation; then realise there is no obligation on you to say your two cents worth.

Let me do a translation for those who are stupidity intolerant. Ignorance and naivety= you do not agree with everything I say. Charming.

Bottom line is simple my dear sister - like Ayatuallah Alamolhoda(HA) said at today's protests - this is a sitation of Hizbullah Against Hizbush-Shaytaan - just like Karbala was. It's binary. If you are with Wilayat al-Faqih - alhamdu lillah you are with Hizbullah - the Quranic Hizbullah - of which the guys in Leb are a shining example I hasten to add. If however you are not with Wilayat al-Faqih; then know that you are with Hizbush-Shaytaan - like Shimr ibn Dhiljawshan(LA), Ubaydullah ibn Ziyad(LA), Yazid(LA), Khawli(LA) and the rest of those enemies of Allah.

Another translation. Bottom line: Either you agree with me or you are the modern day equivalent of Yazeed. That is what Kerbala has been reduced to and that is so profoundly tragic.

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams to those who accept righteous guidance;

"Renaissance_Man"; there is criticism; and then there is active opposition. There is a difference.

You, who seem to be brainwashed by the western, green and munafeq media, need to wake up and realise what's going on. Remember; that a lot of the cretins who insulted and were happy with the murder of my Master, Aba Abdillah al-Husayn(A), used to listen to the media machine of their time; and they were amused and happy with the acts of Yazid, may Allah curse him and those who support him - ignorantly or knowingly - eternally, they said that (naudhubillah) Husayn ibn Ali(A) is after worldly power; and other such horrendous things.

In our time; yes; granted Imam Khamenei(HA) is not an infallible in the same fashion as the Aimmah al-Athaar(A); but he is completely comitted to the path of the Aimmah(A), he has given everything for the sake of Allah; even having his right arm made shaheed.

Also; realise this; whether you - or anyone else - is against Wilayat al-Faqih or against Imam Khamenei(HA); doesn't change a thing. The Righteous Islamic Leadership; the Righteous Ulema know the truth; and the same way those who are against Wilayat al-Faqih and the Leader, Imam Khamenei(HA) will be amongst the losers in this world and the next; those who side with Wilayat al-Faqih and Imam Khamenei(HA), the Leader(HA) will be amongst those who attain true salvation.

As Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) said to a group of Islamic Students in Qum - and I was honoured to be amongst that group in the early 90's:

"If you see the entire world going into one valley; and you see Sayyed Ali Khamenei(HA) go into another valley - follow Sayyed Ali Khamenei(HA)"

When the Prophet says this about Imam Ali (as) (and it really does sound like something the Prophet has said about our Imam) we are obligated to follow it because it is fundamental and essential to our faith. When Nasrallah says it about Khamenei? Yeh.. I am not as obligated. It is a rather convenient differentiation for those of us who don't live and breath political rhetoric and propaganda. Your time in Qum as a student of Islamic studies was obviously wasted. I suggest you and Nasrallah both loosen your turbans.

Also, please refrain from using the word "brainwashed" unless you are referring to yourself. No seriously, the irony is a tad much.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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Well known and well accepted by? People who agree with you? You can't possibly be suggesting anyone take you seriously when you criticize someone else and their knowledge of politics. No really, lets keep it real. You know jack.

Let me do a translation for those who are stupidity intolerant. Ignorance and naivety= you do not agree with everything I say. Charming.

Another translation. Bottom line: Either you agree with me or you are the modern day equivalent of Yazeed. That is what Kerbala has been reduced to and that is so profoundly tragic.

When the Prophet says this about Imam Ali (as) (and it really does sound like something the Prophet has said about our Imam) we are obligated to follow it because it is fundamental and essential to our faith. When Nasrallah says it about Khamenei? Yeh.. I am not as obligated. It is a rather convenient differentiation for those of us who don't live and breath political rhetoric and propaganda. Your time in Qum as a student of Islamic studies was obviously wasted. I suggest you and Nasrallah both loosen your turbans.

Also, please refrain from using the word "brainwashed" unless you are referring to yourself. No seriously, the irony is a tad much.

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams to those who follow righteous guidance;

Okay; tell you what - you follow your "leaders" - and I will follow mine; who alhamdu lillah; are those who follow the true Islam of Muhammad(S), and who walk on the sacred path paved by the pure blood of the Master of Martyrs(A), and those who followed in his way; from the first to the last. Understand this. Understand my words very clearly and very carefully; and reflect on them; for one day - I promise you - you will be forced to remember them; either willingly or otherwise; and on that day; you will have no recourse; and no respite; for surely the trumpet will have sounded; and the Master(AJ) will have returned; and you will not be able to change that which you had done prior to that promised day. So reflect and think carefully on what I am saying; it may save your very soul:

My convictions are based on intellectual analysis and thought; and love of Allah and the Awliya of Allah, your convictions are based on whatever they are based on and I wish you well.

It's just a shame that you have chosen a nickname that you clearly are unable to live up to.

Let me elaborate on one point you made:

The hadeeth is about Imam Ali(A) that Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA), the Secretary General of Hizbullah; and the Naib Khaas of Imam Khamenei(HA) in Lebanon, and one of the most loved and respected personalities amongst the believers and the such a personality that even the enemies do not have anything they can say against him and indeed - apart from mindless insults that are thrown which is the practice of the children of those who's parents were unjust to themselves - this is a person who follows the Karbalai line fully and totally; having given his son as a sacrifice in the way of Allah; without even flinching.

The fact that Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) used that hadeeth - which was given to Ammar ibn Yasir(A) in reference to Imam Ali(A); and Sayyed Hassan(HA) used it in reference to Imam Khamenei(HA); doesn't render the hadeeth invalid or the statement of Sayyed Hassan(HA) invalid; rather it makes one think and reflect and realise; that we have a situation a time when we have serious Ulema, senior Ulema who have given all they have for the sake of Allah; and truely we would be imbeciles and morons if we chose to not follow them. The tragedy is that there are so many imbeciles and morons today as there were in the early days of Islam and throughout Islamic History.

You can say what you want against me; that's fine; no problem; but I warn you and please don't take this as a threat; it's a promise - I don't do threats - threats are for those who don't have certainty in their line; I have completely certainty; please do not speak against Ulema of the calibre and like of Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) or the Leader(HA), Imam Khamenei(HA); for surely if you do; then a place awaits you on the next day wherein you will neither be alive nor dead. Remember - not a threat; a cast iron promise - and you can take me up on it, for it is not a promise Shabbir is making - it's a promise from Allah as written in Quran.

So; if you have problems; and are a slave of your nafs al-Ammarah; then with respect I can't help you; only you can; but if you cross the red line - as you have by insulting Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah(HA); then know that you are amongst those who will be amongst the most pathetic of losers; and who will on that promised day throw dust upon their faces and lament saying "Woe that I was dust".

Be careful of letting your emotions get the better of you; for surely; it will destroy you; and I can see that it has already begun; so consider what I have written above as some brotherly advice.

May Allah hasten the return of our Master(AJ) and alleviate our suffering.

With Salaams to those who accept righteous guidance;

Shabbir

Edited by shabbir.hassanally

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If a person - regardless of how learnred or brilliant or even "pious" said person might be - if they disobey Allah; they go against Islam; then they are lower than the lowest of the low.

Translation: Islam is whatever I've defined it to be in my mind and whoever disagrees with my opinions is an enemy of Islam.

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To hear someone is not equal to side with someone. Both sides should be heard even when they disagree, but when it comes to agreement or when you side, you need to make your mind and pick one. The problem in such cases is that, both sides (Ayatollahs) declare their ruling on one single specific matter; one group of them say the problem is white and the other say it is black...after reviewing their logical explanation people side with them according to their beliefs and good logical rulings.

But, the question is should be raised to those who side with some Ayatollahs who do not believe in the term "Ayatollah" at first place; they were calling dictators and other names to the very same Ayatollahs yesterday that they support today...because they suit their political opposition to the Iranian government.. They take it politically to use them for their advantages.

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

It should be remembered; that one one side; there is the Husayni Line - that is the side of the Wilayah; of Islamic Iran and of the True Islam of Muhammad(S); on the other is the watered down, confused and invalid "Islam" of Shaytaan - an Islam that the ZIonists and the Amerikkkan Empire support and promote and like.

Remember; at the time of Aba Abdillah(A) there were some ignorant fools who suggested that what Imam Husayn(A) was doing was a "political stance". Becareful not to fall into that trap. Be very careful. Because Shaytan is working overtime; the return of our Master(AJ) is round the corner; and Shaytaan is working overtime to confuse and mislead the believers. Be very careful; and be sure to step into the same valley as Imam Khamenei(HA) - even if EVERY SINGLE ALEM RABBANI apart from him goes into another valley; because you can be sure; and have no doubt on this; that the valley that the Leader(HA) goes into is the correct valley that leads to salvation.

Be very very careful; this is your entire future; your akhirah at stake; do not destroy everything; as did Ubaydullah ibn Abbas and many many others; including close companions of Imam Musa al-Kadhim(A) who rejected Imam Ali ar-Ridha(A) because of the Hier Apparency. We have all the answers and all the information from our beloved Aimmah(A); the line is so simple; yet people still get it wrong. Subhan Allah; truely it boggles the mind.

It's like the right path is under their feet; but they choose to go off the cliff; in some mindless frenzy. May Allah protect those who are confused (those who accept they are confused and those who feel they are not confused) from themselves and from a fate wherein they will become those who had the truth; but rejected it; and their remose will destroy them; they will slap their faces and scratch their eyes; and throw dirt on themselves wailing and screaming "ya laytani kuntu turaba" ("Oh Woe that I had become dust"); so be careful. Be very careful.

It is really very simple; I can't believe that I'm even having to explain this to people who claim to be lovers of the separater of Truth and Falsehood, Imam Ali(A).

Subhan Allah.

May Allah hasten the return of our Master(AJ) and allevaite our suffering.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Edited by shabbir.hassanally

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I then ask myself why do these publications support Sanei? Is it because he is someone who will further the Iranian national interest or their vested interests? And given the track record of these publications, I am sorry but their support detracts from any credibility that he may have.

(salam)

The simple fact is when religious leaders (Ayatullah) participate in the political system, you are going to have some that will agree with you and some that will disagree.

As for your other points, everyone is claiming to be supporting the Iranian national interest even the enemies. Slogans don't mean much. The enemy is there to destroy you, but you can't use this as an excuse to be evil to good people.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams to those who follow righteous guidance;

Okay; tell you what - you follow your "leaders" - and I will follow mine; as will those who follow the true Islam of Muhammad(S).

My convictions are based on intellectual analysis and thought; and love of Allah and the Awliya of Allah, your convictions are based on whatever they are based on and I wish you well.

It's just a shame that you have chosen a nickname that you clearly are unable to live up to.

Let me elaborate on one point you made:

The hadeeth is about Imam Ali(A) that Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA), the Secretary General of Hizbullah; and the Naib Khaas of Imam Khamenei(HA) in Lebanon, and one of the most loved and respected personalities amongst the believers and the such a personality that even the enemies do not have anything they can say against him and indeed - apart from mindless insults that are thrown which is the practice of the children of those who's parents were unjust to themselves - this is a person who follows the Karbalai line fully and totally; having given his son as a sacrifice in the way of Allah; without even flinching.

You can say what you want against me; that's fine; no problem; but I warn you and please don't take this as a threat; it's a promise - I don't do threats - threats are for those who don't have certainty in their line; I have completely certainty; please do not speak against Ulema of the calibre and like of Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) or the Leader(HA), Imam Khamenei(HA); for surely if you do; then a place awaits you on the next day wherein you will neither be alive nor dead. Remember - not a threat; a cast iron promise - and you can take me up on it, for it is not a promise Shabbir is making - it's a promise from Allah as written in Quran.

So; if you have problems; and are a slave of your nafs al-Ammarah; then with respect I can't help you; only you can; but if you cross the red line - as you have by insulting Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah(HA); then know that you are amongst those who will be amongst the most pathetic of losers; and who will on that promised day throw dust upon their faces and lament saying "Woe that I was dust".

Be careful of letting your emotions get the better of you; for surely; it will destroy you; and I can see that it has already begun; so consider what I have written above as some brotherly advice.

With Salaams to those who accept righteous guidance;

Shabbir

Fascinating. Completely idiotic, but fascinating nonetheless Shibby. I think I will take my chances with the whole hellfire thing (although your sincere warning and obvious concern about my eternal damnation is heartwarming). It is this weird tendency I have to tune out irrelevant cyber Imams playing God.. comes in handy. :angel:

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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Lol. Mr Hassanally, you really need to drop the cheesy tone. They parallel with your nonsensical views and make you look like a right nincompoop. Have a day off and spare us the sanctimonious lectures.

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(salam)

The simple fact is when religious leaders (Ayatullah) participate in the political system, you are going to have some that will agree with you and some that will disagree.

As for your other points, everyone is claiming to be supporting the Iranian national interest even the enemies. Slogans don't mean much. The enemy is there to destroy you, but you can't use this as an excuse to be evil to good people.

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Tell me; is it okay to follow the line of Ubaydullah ibn Abbas? Is it the path to Truth to follow the path of Shimr ibn Dhiljawshan?

Why don't you people think - just a little even; but think; use those beautiful brains that Allah gave you; and think; leverage Quran and the lives of the Aimmah al-Athaar(A) learn something; and perchance you may attain salvation.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

To those who mock. Alhamdu lillah; mock.

To those who feel they can "take their chances with the fire who's fuel is men and stones" - feel that.

But know one thing; that here and now on this thread on Shiachat; the Hujjah has been made complete to you. You have no excuses to oppose the true Islam of Muhammad(S) nor to oppose the Righteous Islamic Leadership(HA).

What happens from now; is your own doing; and the excuse of "I didn't know" is no longer valid.

May Allah hasten the return of our Master(AJ), and Alleviate our suffering.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Edited by shabbir.hassanally

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In His Name, the Most High

Salaams to those who follow righteous guidance;

Okay; tell you what - you follow your "leaders" - and I will follow mine; who alhamdu lillah; are those who follow the true Islam of Muhammad(S), and who walk on the sacred path paved by the pure blood of the Master of Martyrs(A), and those who followed in his way; from the first to the last. Understand this. Understand my words very clearly and very carefully; and reflect on them; for one day - I promise you - you will be forced to remember them; either willingly or otherwise; and on that day; you will have no recourse; and no respite; for surely the trumpet will have sounded; and the Master(AJ) will have returned; and you will not be able to change that which you had done prior to that promised day. So reflect and think carefully on what I am saying; it may save your very soul:

My convictions are based on intellectual analysis and thought; and love of Allah and the Awliya of Allah, your convictions are based on whatever they are based on and I wish you well.

It's just a shame that you have chosen a nickname that you clearly are unable to live up to.

Let me elaborate on one point you made:

The hadeeth is about Imam Ali(A) that Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA), the Secretary General of Hizbullah; and the Naib Khaas of Imam Khamenei(HA) in Lebanon, and one of the most loved and respected personalities amongst the believers and the such a personality that even the enemies do not have anything they can say against him and indeed - apart from mindless insults that are thrown which is the practice of the children of those who's parents were unjust to themselves - this is a person who follows the Karbalai line fully and totally; having given his son as a sacrifice in the way of Allah; without even flinching.

You can say what you want against me; that's fine; no problem; but I warn you and please don't take this as a threat; it's a promise - I don't do threats - threats are for those who don't have certainty in their line; I have completely certainty; please do not speak against Ulema of the calibre and like of Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) or the Leader(HA), Imam Khamenei(HA); for surely if you do; then a place awaits you on the next day wherein you will neither be alive nor dead. Remember - not a threat; a cast iron promise - and you can take me up on it, for it is not a promise Shabbir is making - it's a promise from Allah as written in Quran.

So; if you have problems; and are a slave of your nafs al-Ammarah; then with respect I can't help you; only you can; but if you cross the red line - as you have by insulting Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah(HA); then know that you are amongst those who will be amongst the most pathetic of losers; and who will on that promised day throw dust upon their faces and lament saying "Woe that I was dust".

Be careful of letting your emotions get the better of you; for surely; it will destroy you; and I can see that it has already begun; so consider what I have written above as some brotherly advice.

With Salaams to those who accept righteous guidance;

Shabbir

Wow.

Could you possibly be more full of yourself here?

See, this is the big problem people have with zealous supporters of the Iranian government like yourself. You might not realize it, but in fact all of your condescensions and pompous language to anyone who deigns disagree with you does some of the worst disservice to the cause you claim to support.

First, you begin by giving the giving of salam that one gives to a munafiq. Quite the way of starting off. Then you give her a promise of damnation and punishment if she doesn't repent of having had the gall to question your certainties. You then go into a further tirade of essentially equating a worldly government with the religion itself, referring to its leadership as being _the_ Leadership (even with a na'ib al-khass of all things...).

Last I knew, our Leader is the son of Imam Hasan al-`Askari (as), and he has no na'ib al-khass in this time of his ghayba. It's his governance we await, and his banner under which we give our allegiance. Trying to promote someone else as the "Leader" in the manner of which you speak, to the depth where you will have the nerve to dare invoke Allah's name as though you had the authority to speak for Him, sounds a lot like you're in fact promoting some other madhhab and not Imami Shi`ism.

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Wow.

Could you possibly be more full of yourself here?

See, this is the big problem people have with zealous supporters of the Iranian government like yourself. You might not realize it, but in fact all of your condescensions and pompous language to anyone who deigns disagree with you does some of the worst disservice to the cause you claim to support.

First, you begin by giving the giving of salam that one gives to a munafiq. Quite the way of starting off. Then you give her a promise of damnation and punishment if she doesn't repent of having had the gall to question your certainties. You then go into a further tirade of essentially equating a worldly government with the religion itself, referring to its leadership as being _the_ Leadership (even with a na'ib al-khass of all things...).

Last I knew, our Leader is the son of Imam Hasan al-`Askari (as), and he has no na'ib al-khass in this time of his ghayba. It's his governance we await, and his banner under which we give our allegiance. Trying to promote someone else as the "Leader" in the manner of which you speak, to the depth where you will have the nerve to dare invoke Allah's name as though you had the authority to speak for Him, sounds a lot like you're in fact promoting some other madhhab and not Imami Shi`ism.

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams to those who follow righteous guidance

Yes I use a salutation that Imam Ali(A) used for Muawiyyah; and I have good reason; if you can't understand it then with respect; I can't help you.

Second; when I used the word "Naib Khaas" - if you examine what I said - I said that Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) is the Naib Khaas (Appointed Special Representative) OF Imam Khamenei(HA) - not of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) - like you rightely said - we have no Naib Khaas of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) at this time.

So if you please - don't misinterpret my words - and be sure to read carefully and clearly and realise the context. I thought you of all people who claim not to make Taqleed and indeed follow an Akhbari pathway where you deduce rulings from the Quran and Ahadeeth yourself would have understood the importance of reading a passage and item fully, and in context prior to commenting on it.

With Salaams to those who follow righteous guidance.

Shabbir

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In His Name, the Most High

Salaams to those who follow righteous guidance

Yes I use a salutation that Imam Ali(A) used for Muawiyyah; and I have good reason; if you can't understand it then with respect; I can't help you.

And there you go again. For all your warnings of divine chastisement, one would think you'd be more careful with treating fellow Shi`as as though they were the allies of Mu`awiya because they do not subscribe to your specific political ideology or dare question the positions you ally yourself with.

Second; when I used the word "Naib Khaas" - if you examine what I said - I said that Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) is the Naib Khaas (Appointed Special Representative) OF Imam Khamenei(HA) - not of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) - like you rightely said - we have no Naib Khaas of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) at this time.

So if you please - don't misinterpret my words - and be sure to read carefully and clearly and realise the context. I thought you of all people who claim not to make Taqleed and indeed follow an Akhbari pathway where you deduce rulings from the Quran and Ahadeeth yourself would have understood the importance of reading a passage and item fully, and in context prior to commenting on it.

With Salaams to those who follow righteous guidance.

Shabbir

And for your urgings of reading carefully and with context, this one completely flew over you it seems. No, I didn't say you were claiming that Sayyid Nasrullah is the Imam al-Hujjat's (ajfs) na'ib al-khass. I was saying that the manner in which you speak about the Iranian government and its leadership is on a par of which we as Imamis are meant to be talking about our Imam, the son of al-`Askari (as). Which is why I said this type of thing makes it sound like you're promoting some new madhhab. separate from Imami Shi`ism.

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With Shias like these, the Imam doesn't need enemies.

Hopefully the current turmoil brings down or weakens the government enough to force the religious bourgeois to deal with actual problems and serve the people, rather than consume its energies on categorizing people as hell-bound associates of Yazid and Muawia.

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Bismill..

Asalaamu Alaykum,

Alhamdulill.. as shias we have all found the true leaders; the Ahlul Bayt (as). Inshall.. we will use the examples they set, in our lives. Just as an advice to myself and others on the forum, we need to make sure we don't become like the people of Kufa, who said they will be waiting with open arms for the Imam (as), but we all know how as soon as they faced one hardship, they turned back on their word. We must be aware to not make the same mistake they did when our Imam (atfs) comes. We need to show our sincerity here and now, even if our Imam (atfs) is not with us. How we choose to show it, is up to us, but let me say, the one with the best resume' is going to be chosen to help the Imam (atfs) when he reappears. I have seen what everyone has to offer, how every group and sect is working, what their ideals are; and in the end, I have chosen Ayatoll.. Khamenei as my teacher and leader to help train me for the time of the Imam (atfs)'s reappearance. May All.. (swt) keep this leader strong in eman and health. Ilahi Ameen.

Also Brother Shabbir, jazakull.. Khayran for your posts. I just wanted to pass on a word from Ayatoll.. Khamenei, who said, if people disrespect him or tear his pictures, the people's response should be patience. He said we need to save our energy for when it is needed. I was listening to it on a youtube clip, I can't find it at the moment, but if I do, I'll post it. I'm not sure you speak farsi though, but nonetheless, I will put it up if I come by it again.

All the truth which has been said is from All.. (swt) and that which is not is from myself.

حیدری‌ام، حیدری‌ام، سرباز سیدعلی‌ام

Edited by motee'

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In regards to Grand Ayatollah Saanei, I would would request that everyone prays for him in these difficult circumstances. He is currently under house arrest, has been threatened by government thugs and has had his offices in a number of cities attacked. It is times like this that we hope and dream of the return of Imam Zaman and for justice to be restored. These are the times that try men's souls...

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As for your other points, everyone is claiming to be supporting the Iranian national interest even the enemies. Slogans don't mean much. The enemy is there to destroy you, but you can't use this as an excuse to be evil to good people.

(salam)

My view is that some groups (namely western countries) have a 100+ year track record of proactively acting against Iran's national interest. Of course you would not expect them to act in its interest, but you would expect them to treat it in a non-exploitative way. But their perspective has always been an imperial one. Some on Shiachat believe that suddenly these foreign countries have changed. I don't agree.

For example, the very same powers have one rule for Israel when it comes to nuclear weapons and another for Iran. How can they possibly have changed their stance? They have one set of standards for Sunni Arab states *democracy* and another set for Iran.

Now the problem is that they are NOT taking a neutral stance. They are quite clearly in favour of one group - this makes me suspicious of that group. Moreover if members of that group were to disavow themselves from the foreign powers that would make them more credible IMHO.

The problem is that people like Ayatollah Sanei court the opinion of these foreign powers.

This is not just a blinkered pro-IRI thing on my part. I also felt extremely suspicious about Iyad Allawi and Ahmed Chalabi in Iraq, given the level of explicit backing that they had from the U.S. And as for Karzai...even mainstream opinion now acknowledges that he is a sock puppet....but an acceptable one.

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Bismill..

Asalaamu Alaykum,

Also Brother Shabbir, jazakull.. Khayran for your posts. I just wanted to pass on a word from Ayatoll.. Khamenei, who said, if people disrespect him or tear his pictures, the people's response should be patience. He said we need to save our energy for when it is needed. I was listening to it on a youtube clip, I can't find it at the moment, but if I do, I'll post it. I'm not sure you speak farsi though, but nonetheless, I will put it up if I come by it again.

All the truth which has been said is from All.. (swt) and that which is not is from myself.

ÍیÏÑیÇã¡ ÍیÏÑیÇã¡ ÓÑÈÇÒ ÓیÏÚáیÇã

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Thanks for the reminder sister; alhamdu lillah; it's hard but we bow our heads in obediance to the command of the Leader(HA). Also; yes I speak Farsi alhamdu lillah.

(salam)

My view is that some groups (namely western countries) have a 100+ year track record of proactively acting against Iran's national interest. Of course you would not expect them to act in its interest, but you would expect them to treat it in a non-exploitative way. But their perspective has always been an imperial one. Some on Shiachat believe that suddenly these foreign countries have changed. I don't agree.

For example, the very same powers have one rule for Israel when it comes to nuclear weapons and another for Iran. How can they possibly have changed their stance? They have one set of standards for Sunni Arab states *democracy* and another set for Iran.

Now the problem is that they are NOT taking a neutral stance. They are quite clearly in favour of one group - this makes me suspicious of that group. Moreover if members of that group were to disavow themselves from the foreign powers that would make them more credible IMHO.

The problem is that people like Ayatollah Sanei court the opinion of these foreign powers.

This is not just a blinkered pro-IRI thing on my part. I also felt extremely suspicious about Iyad Allawi and Ahmed Chalabi in Iraq, given the level of explicit backing that they had from the U.S. And as for Karzai...even mainstream opinion now acknowledges that he is a sock puppet....but an acceptable one.

There is a very sweet saying of Imam Khumayni(A) that I am reminded of by reading your post my respected brother (I'm paraphrasing but the mafhum (understanding) is clear):

Imam Khumayni(A) had said to the believers; that if the Amerikkkan and Istekbaar-e-Alami (Global Arrogance) are against you and consider you their enemy; then know that you are on the right way; but if they start praising you and lauding you; then you should check yourself; since Shaytaan doesn't applaud anything that has a connection to Allah or to the Truth.

I've paraphrase; as I can't remember the exact words; but along the lines of.

Also; Imam Khumayni(A) had told us; that defending the Islamic Republic is completely Wajib; more so than anything else. Now some might say that makes no sense; but if those people actually understood what Islamic Iran is; what it stands for; why it is the flag bearer and harbinger of the return of our Master(AJ), Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) then you would understand; but it's okay; Allah is making the truth so manifest; and the falsehood so apparent; that only those who's hearts are truely covered with the rust of sin and who are slaves to their base animal insticts don't get it and don't stand by Islamic Iran. Alhamdu lillah in all situations.

Finally; I thank Allah; that he has made our enemies ignorant and without depth; and that He has blessed us - even during the Ghaybah of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ), may our souls be his ransom; with leaders such as Imam Khumayni(A) who revived Islam and brought us back to the true Islam of Muhammad(S), with Imam Khamenei(HA) who carries the flag of the true Islam and is a living Shaheed; with Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah(HA) who is loved by all the believers; for his sincerety his sacrifice; and he is the same general the same commander; who has for the first time in history; replicated the work of Imam Ali(A) and hurt the Zionists; the Zionists who are the inheritors of The Khaybariyyun and the likes of Marhab and Hareth who worked and strove against Islam and against the Rasul of Allah(S).

Alhamdu lillah for these countless blessings. Alhamdu lillah.

O Allah; we beg you; for the sake of Muhammad(S) and Aal-i-Muhammad(A); if we are to betray our Leader(HA); then let us die before we do this; and keep us always on the path of the true Islam of Muhammad(S); surely You are the most merciful; the most perfect.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

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macisaac, the ulema are the successors and inheritors after the Prophets and Imam [AJTF]. Secondarily, when the khibr (experts) amongst the ulema gather and decide a specific individual as the best to lead, he becomes the Leader, with a special relationship due to the link back to the wilayah aforementioned, higher than that normally accredited to political leaders..

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Imam Khumayni(A) had said to the believers; that if the Amerikkkan and Istekbaar-e-Alami (Global Arrogance) are against you and consider you their enemy; then know that you are on the right way; but if they start praising you and lauding you; then you should check yourself; since Shaytaan doesn't applaud anything that has a connection to Allah or to the Truth.

Hmmm... Castro, Mossadeq, Bhutto, Allende, Zelaya, Saddam, Chavez, Sharif, Osama, Mulla Omar, Zarqawi et. al., all 'on the right way'?

You would be doing a gross disservice to the study of politics if you paint things in such broad strokes. The same Islamic Republic of Iran which almost went to war with another Islamic Republic of Pakistan in the late 90s over the latter's support for the Taliban has lately cozied up with the Taliban. Not so evil now?

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Hmmm... Castro, Mossadeq, Bhutto, Allende, Zelaya, Saddam, Chavez, Sharif, Osama, Mulla Omar, Zarqawi et. al., all 'on the right way'?

You would be doing a gross disservice to the study of politics if you paint things in such broad strokes. The same Islamic Republic of Iran which almost went to war with another Islamic Republic of Pakistan in the late 90s over the latter's support for the Taliban has lately cozied up with the Taliban. Not so evil now?

In His Name, the Most High

Well if you choose to follow those who actively work against Islam and accept their opinion on things - as clearly you do (knowingly or ignorantly is another discussion for another day); then no-one can help you.

Shabbir

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Ayatollah Sanei no longer qualified: Clerical body

A top clerical body in the holy city of Qom declares that Grand Ayatollah Yousuf Sanei no longer qualifies to be a marja al-taqlid, or a source of emulation — the highest clerical rank in Shia Islam.

The Qom Theological Lecturers Association, Jame-e-Modarressin said on Saturday that it had launched a yearlong investigation into the qualifications of Grand Ayatollah Sanei in response to repetitive inquiries on the issue, Fars news reported.

In a statement bearing the signature of Ayatollah Mohammad Yazdi, the former head of Iran's judiciary, the body announced that the result of the investigation indicate that Grand Ayatollah Sanei is not eligible to be a marja.

Grand Ayatollah Sanei, 72, has come under fire for its anti-government stance. He has also been criticized by millions of Iranians who took part in the demonstration on Wednesday.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=115179&sectionid=351020101

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The Qom Theological Lecturers Association, Jame-e-Modarressin said on Saturday that it had launched a yearlong investigation into the qualifications of Grand Ayatollah Sanei in response to repetitive inquiries on the issue, Fars news reported.

In a statement bearing the signature of Ayatollah Mohammad Yazdi, the former head of Iran's judiciary, the body announced that the result of the investigation indicate that Grand Ayatollah Sanei is not eligible to be a marja.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=115179&sectionid=351020101

Not surprised at all. I remember asking a western academic, who lectures in Islamic Studies at a prestigious UK university, a few weeks ago that I felt that this chap's ideas were dodgy and whether he was a proper mar'ja or not. Unsurprisingly the academic thought he was totally kosher (not his actual word BTW).

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The Qom Theological Lecturers Association, Jame-e-Modarressin said on Saturday that it had launched a yearlong investigation into the qualifications of Grand Ayatollah Sanei in response to repetitive inquiries on the issue, Fars news reported.

In a statement bearing the signature of Ayatollah Mohammad Yazdi, the former head of Iran's judiciary, the body announced that the result of the investigation indicate that Grand Ayatollah Sanei is not eligible to be a marja.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=115179&sectionid=351020101

Not surprised at all. I remember asking a western academic, who lectures in Islamic Studies at a prestigious UK university, a few weeks ago that I felt that this chap's ideas were dodgy and whether he was a proper mar'ja or not. Unsurprisingly the academic thought he was totally kosher (not his actual word BTW).

They should investigate Ayatollah Khamenei while they're at it.

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Ayatollah Sanei no longer qualified: Clerical body

A top clerical body in the holy city of Qom declares that Grand Ayatollah Yousuf Sanei no longer qualifies to be a marja al-taqlid, or a source of emulation — the highest clerical rank in Shia Islam.

The Qom Theological Lecturers Association, Jame-e-Modarressin said on Saturday that it had launched a yearlong investigation into the qualifications of Grand Ayatollah Sanei in response to repetitive inquiries on the issue, Fars news reported.

In a statement bearing the signature of Ayatollah Mohammad Yazdi, the former head of Iran's judiciary, the body announced that the result of the investigation indicate that Grand Ayatollah Sanei is not eligible to be a marja.

Grand Ayatollah Sanei, 72, has come under fire for its anti-government stance. He has also been criticized by millions of Iranians who took part in the demonstration on Wednesday.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=115179&sectionid=351020101

This is preposterous. Now a government backed body, headed by the likes of Muhammad Yazdi, would decide who is and isn't a marja? The news report failed to give the reasons behind Sanei's 'disqualification'. Look at the wording of this absurd declaration. Saanei is "no longer" a marja. So I guess he must have done something blatantly 'unislamic' to deserve this. I can think of at least one 'unislamic' act. He has repeatedly launched scathing salvos against the regime which is of course enough to establish one's lack of imaan- because opposition to the WF is opposition to Imam Mahdi, to Imam Hussain, to Imam Ali, to the Prophet himself and the to Lord of the heaven and the earth. :rolleyes: I am not saying this. The likes of Yazdi and Jannati say this.

They should investigate Ayatollah Khamenei while they're at it.

Indeed. It is laughable that they attack other eminent maraje for not being qualified while they have...ahh... I better leave it at that.

Edited by Marbles

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(salam)

had launched a yearlong investigation into the qualifications of Grand Ayatollah Sanei in response to repetitive inquiries on the issue, Fars news reported.

Who is asking him to be investigated? :unsure:

Is this a wise political decision considering that we do not really have a general consensus in the Shia Community about what it means to be the most knowledgeable scholar? Correct me if I am wrong here. :unsure:

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

(salam)

Who is asking him to be investigated? :unsure:

Is this a wise political decision considering that we do not really have a general consensus in the Shia Community about what it means to be the most knowledgeable scholar? Correct me if I am wrong here. :unsure:

Apparently a knowledgeable scholar= someone who refrains from criticizing the regime.

This is such a transparent "investigation," I don't think anyone is deluded enough to think this has anything to do with his qualifications or his knowledge.

It is simply dirty politics.

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There are 2 main qualifications for someone to be considered a marje taqleed.

1. His Ishtihaad must be proved; i.e. he must be a mujtahid

2. He must be a just person.

Agha Saanei has clearly cast doubt on his justice with a number of things he has said about recent developments in the IRI.

This may have played a big role in the announcement.

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They should investigate Ayatollah Khamenei while they're at it.

This is their site: http://www.jameehmodarresin.org/. Go and gather many people and file your request(s) as they did for Saanei..

Who is asking him to be investigated?

People. Believers. Momineen (Translation from the Q&A on their site: "According the numerous requests from the momineen..")..

Is this a wise political decision considering that we do not really have a general consensus in the Shia Community about what it means to be the most knowledgeable scholar? Correct me if I am wrong here.

heh, lack of consensus issue aside, as that is another [long] different topic, one thing is for sure: No logic accepts that it is possible for someone to be a marja whilst bearing the stamp of disapproval of the top 57+ teachers in the Hawza Illmiyyeh Qom (see site for list). Ayatullah Fadlullah had a couple of suspicious statements regarding his credentials and the issue has plagued the pages of ShiaChat since. This should not be much of a debate..

Note that Saanei's marji'yat has not been revoked according to them. They only consider 6 people worldwide (see site) worthy of emulation. Saanei was never on the list..

Apparently a knowledgeable scholar= someone who refrains from criticizing the regime.

Clap, clap. Good inference..

This is such a transparent "investigation," I don't think anyone is deluded enough to think this has anything to do with his qualifications or his knowledge.

57 of the leading lecturers in the Qom seminary beg to differ..

MODS: #59 downwards should be split into a different topic..

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

57 of the leading lecturers in the Qom seminary beg to differ..

Shocking.

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khamenei is a marja no doubt about it. he is considered as one of the top ones we have today.

Saanei has said that anyone who votes for ahmadinejad is a kaffir....

The imam will come to destroy the false scholars, maybe Saanei is truthful maybe he is not. People i have spoken to say he is still considered as a marja but has crooked views. I heard in QOM they dont even consider him as a marjaa, can anyone from QOM or someone who has visited it recently clarify this?

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Saanei has said that anyone who votes for ahmadinejad is a kaffir....

I don't think so...unless you provide some reliable source and quote him...... if you don't please do not make faulty accusation against anybody, even against those whom you disagree with.

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