Bashed for being too picky

[Alpha_Female]

Salam all.

I'm not interested in getting married yet; I don't have the desire or the will right now to take on the responsibilities that marriage would impose on me. With that said though, I would like to get married some day so I obviously do think about what qualities I'd like a significant other to possess. I know I have an unusual amount of requirements and demands - that I am very picky about men...but I honestly don't think I'm being unrealistic or unfair at all; I'm not asking for anything that I can't "offer" or "put on the table" for a man myself, you know? However, my surroundings seem to be ridiculing me, laughing at me and saying things like, "good luck, Babe, you'll never find a guy like that". At first, I was able to convince myself that my surroundings just meet a "certain" type of people, NOT my type of people, and therefor don't know/haven't experienced any better. But since then I've talked to some guys that I've been interested in (seriously, of course) who all turned out to not live up to my requirements. I therefore rejected them...and had to hear from them as well that I'm basically dellusional, unrealistic and unfair in my requirements...that I'm never going to meet the type of man that I require because such man doesn't exist. I've come to the point where I've actually started to believe it...I guess I'm writing this thread to hear what other Muslims think (since people around me aren't Muslims), and maybe tell me something that will make me feel that I'm not being unrealistic as everyone tells me I am...

My main requirements for a guy (besides Muslimness) is that he's intelligent, educated (schoolwise), stable and independant (financially), spontaneous, funny, interesting, loving and kind, loyal, takes me seriously - aaand has NO past with women; no emotional or sexual baggage whatsoever. I don't have any of that myself, and I'm too jealous of a person to deal with a man who has it, so I feel like it isn't at all an unfair requirement to make. But what do you think? AM I being unrealistic?

[Nazar_Abbas]

Quite Interesting.

Well i don't think you are picky or Unrealistic in anyways.

These are the things which people normally look for.

I don't say finding the perfect match is impossible, but yes its difficult.

As far as your requirements are concerned they are all very normal accept for the last two (in my case)

has NO past with women; no emotional or sexual baggage whatsoever

You yourself accepted that you don't possess such qualities. So to expect the same from the counter part would not be right. You have to compromise somewhere.

Because no one is perfect.

To give you my example:

In my case, I am not in a rush. I have no deadlines.

I am quite willing to take things slowly, establish a friendship first, and see where it goes.

If we're compatible, we'll know soon enough.

I can make my partner know that when it's right, I'm ready, able, and eager to throw myself into it completely - all the way.

I value extraordinary quality of a real heart connection that is seasoned with time.

So i would suggest you, instead of wasting time in searching for the 100% qualities in your partner, try to make out for the negative points of your partner from your side, and make it 100% Positive.

All the Best !

Edited December 5, 2009 by Nazar_Abbas

[Alpha_Female]

Salam Nazar_Abbas.

These are the things which people normally look for.

That's what you'd think, right? But I honestly don't know anybody who have more than 2 or 3 requirements..."requirements" - that, IMO, should really be something that goes without saying. I mean, wishing for a nice partner and saying that niceness is a requirement? Does anyone actually consider marrying a mean person? I don't understand .

I don't say finding the perfect match is impossible, but yes its difficult.

Oh, absolutely...I don't expect perfection in any humanbeing. But I also don't exactly want to deal with major flaws...

As far as your requirements are concerned they are all very normal accept for the last two (in my case)

You don't think it's normal to have an opinion of what sort of sexual past one would like their spouse to have?

You yourself accepted that you don't possess such qualities.

Oh no...I do possess those qualities, you misunderstood me .

So to expect the same from the counter part would not be right.

Absolutely . It's not right to require that your spouse must be a virgin when you're not yourself. I totally agree with that...

To give you my example:

In my case, I am not in a rush. I have no deadlines.

I am quite willing to take things slowly, establish a friendship first, and see where it goes.

If we're compatible, we'll know soon enough.

I can make my partner know that when it's right, I'm ready, able, and eager to throw myself into it completely - all the way.

I value extraordinary quality of a real heart connection that is seasoned with time.

I think this is a pretty sensible way of going about things (given that the getting-to-knowing happen within halal frames, of course). I'm very pro spending time on investigating who you're potentially spending the rest of your life with; I don't like the thought of being back-thrown with horrible "surprises" 5 years in to a marriage - where there may be kids in picture as well.

So i would suggest you, instead of wasting time in searching for the 100% qualities in your partner, try to make out for the negative points of your partner from your side, and make it 100% Positive.

Thank you for your advice but I don't feel like my job is to outweigh my partner's negatives with my positives (and vice versa). I'm a great believer in partners complementing each others' strengths and weaknesses - but not their positives and negatives. I don't think that many people are strong enough to carry the burden of their partner's major flaws, and able to tell themselves that they should look past their partner's flaws because they don't possess them themselves. I'm not...

Edited December 5, 2009 by Alpha_Female

[guest 34193]

Just be careful of expectations. Many young women fall into the trap of waiting for Prince Dr. Maulana Perfect (as aptly put or close to it by another member on this site previously), end up waiting years into their prime and never finding him, then once (if) they do get married, end up disappointed that their spouse doesn't match the image of what they had been waiting for.

A note about jealousy though, this isn't a good thing and you should work to eradicate that. I mean Islamically speaking, we have a number of hadiths that strongly condemn this attribute in women if found (it is even called kufr), so you should strive to remove it from yourself. This is another trap many women fall into as well, sadly.

Welcome to the site btw, and al-hamdu lillah on your conversation.

[leb_cool]

My main requirements for a guy (besides Muslimness) is that he's intelligent, educated (schoolwise), stable and independant (financially), spontaneous, funny, interesting, loving and kind, loyal, takes me seriously - aaand has NO past with women; no emotional or sexual baggage whatsoever. I don't have any of that myself, and I'm too jealous of a person to deal with a man who has it, so I feel like it isn't at all an unfair requirement to make. But what do you think? AM I being unrealistic?

Salam

Your requirements are normal and i dont understand why nobody is taking you seriously.

But the last 2 '' no past with women and no emotional or sexual baggage'' are hard do find , and in my opinion its not normal that a guy had never felt in love with a girl.

We are human and have emotion, we are not Robot

You talked about jealousy, its something that u will have to control. Sometime jealousy is ''cute'' but if its not controlled, it will destroy the relation.

does it really worth it to have a men without past relation ?...think about it .. As a men, i would have no problem to deal with a non-virgin girl if she is the ONE

I was a very very very jealous guy before, but i have worked on myself and im just normal now lol.

As a men, i need a kind of liberty, i dont wanna receive a phone call from my wife every 2 minute.

Salam

[Alpha_Female]

Salam Macisaac.

Absolutely...as I said, I don't personally expect perfection - I don't even expect that all of my requirements will be met in one man. I'm prepared for that, and I'm also willing to compromise on certain things .

Thank you for the reminder of the hadiths that condemn jealousy. I have thankfully read them. However, my jealousy only applies to men with sexual pasts (something they shouldn't be having in the first place when they've not been married). It's hard for me to accept that a man has touched, enjoyed and loved other women before me. Because I have never done that to/with other men. I feel like I'd be giving a man a very intimate part of myself but he would not be giving me the same back.

I have very strong morals and strong feelings about fairness and justice...I don't think it's fair at all that a man who's played the field can pick and choose from virgin women, while the virgin women are just being told that female jealousy is kufr. It angers me, and it would make me extremely jealous, if a man with a sexual and emotional past expected me to feel fine about it.

I reaaally want to avoid all that trouble which is why one thing I will not compromise with is virginity. It'd be foolish of me to accept a non-virgin man when I know he'd evoke strong, HARAM jealous feelings in me. Don't you agree?

Otherwise, I'm probably one of the least jealous people around .

Edited December 5, 2009 by Alpha_Female

[gogiison2]

^ WA wr wb..

that's why we have repentance. i understand that if one considers themselves pure, they'd ideally want someone as pure, but i think it may be different when considering one who has repented and one who has not. obviously, if the female is religious, she wouldn't look for the type of guys who haven't repented.

EDIT: what if a guy was married previously and his wife passed an an early age. would you consider him or is he off limits because of past relations?

EDIT#2: to give you a better understanding of what i mean of Tauba(repentance) check out what is said to be Imam Ali's definition of Tauba.

*what i often recommend others to look for in a spouse is for one that has willingness to learn and willingness to accept change.

Edited December 5, 2009 by gogiison2

[Alpha_Female]

Salam.

We are human and have emotion, we are not Robot

lol, Of course. I don't mind if someone has had crushes before, or have experienced "puppy love" before...you're right, only a robot could've avoided those feelings. But deep love and sex can definitely be avoided by the average man (and woman - I've done it!). I don't believe it's so easy to fall in love that it's something you can do 3 times a year. You know?

You talked about jealousy, its something that u will have to control. Sometime jealousy is ''cute'' but if its not controlled, it will destroy the relation.

Exactly. I normally have a whole lot of self-control...but not when it comes to dealing with a man who's had sex before. In my experience, men are actually very surprised when a woman expresses an opinion of their previous sexlives. Traditionally, women have always just shutted up about men's sexual pasts, and let the men do all the demanding on their sexual pasts. A guy seriously told me, when I rejected him for his past: "I had no idea that the woman I'd like to marry would not have liked me to be other women before her" . Yeah, maybe because you didn't think with your head when you had that ridiculous thought .

does it really worth it to have a men without past relation ?...think about it .. As a men, i would have no problem to deal with a non-virgin girl if she is the ONE

I was a very very very jealous guy before, but i have worked on myself and im just normal now lol.

As a men, i need a kind of liberty, i dont wanna receive a phone call from my wife every 2 minute.

We're all different...I'm glad you don't have a problem with non-virgin women but I do...I really do, lol.

Trust me, women need that liberty, too! It's not that kind of jealousy I'm taking about . I'm talking about the bitter-angry-uncontrollable jealousy with no actions behind it, other than yelling, screaming and kicking the husband out of the bedroom .

[Marbles]

Salam all.

I'm not interested in getting married yet; I don't have the desire or the will right now to take on the responsibilities that marriage would impose on me. With that said though, I would like to get married some day so I obviously do think about what qualities I'd like a significant other to possess. I know I have an unusual amount of requirements and demands - that I am very picky about men...but I honestly don't think I'm being unrealistic or unfair at all; I'm not asking for anything that I can't "offer" or "put on the table" for a man myself, you know? However, my surroundings seem to be ridiculing me, laughing at me and saying things like, "good luck, Babe, you'll never find a guy like that". At first, I was able to convince myself that my surroundings just meet a "certain" type of people, NOT my type of people, and therefor don't know/haven't experienced any better. But since then I've talked to some guys that I've been interested in (seriously, of course) who all turned out to not live up to my requirements. I therefore rejected them...and had to hear from them as well that I'm basically dellusional, unrealistic and unfair in my requirements...that I'm never going to meet the type of man that I require because such man doesn't exist. I've come to the point where I've actually started to believe it...I guess I'm writing this thread to hear what other Muslims think (since people around me aren't Muslims), and maybe tell me something that will make me feel that I'm not being unrealistic as everyone tells me I am...

My main requirements for a guy (besides Muslimness) is that he's intelligent, educated (schoolwise), stable and independant (financially), spontaneous, funny, interesting, loving and kind, loyal, takes me seriously - aaand has NO past with women; no emotional or sexual baggage whatsoever. I don't have any of that myself, and I'm too jealous of a person to deal with a man who has it, so I feel like it isn't at all an unfair requirement to make. But what do you think? AM I being unrealistic?

As I see it, your main requirements are general and sought by everyone. The only thing that is special or extraordinary is the one I have highlighted. This expectation is not rare among females. If you never had any experience, you sometimes require that you future husband must also be experience-less. You can find sexually innocent guys if you look hard - BUT finding a guy who has no, as you put it, emotional baggage is next to impossible. (I'd say it is extremely hard to find even a female with no emotional experience). Then the guy you want must also be educated and financially dependent. This stability normally comes when the guy is at least in his mid twenties or late twenties, not before. This is a lot of time to remain emotionally and/or sexually innocent. I am assuming that guys who are not sexually innocent are so through halal means - but of course, many are involved in fornication.

Also, you only discover yourself (your positives and negatives), and balance your perceptions and expectations once you have lived through a relationship. A guy who has virtually no experience - at least emotional if not sexual - runs the risk of failing in his first ever relationship. Perhaps guys are more emotionally unstable then women, but you wouldn't want that happening to you. I'd suggest you to be more lenient with your criteria. Think about a guy who successfully hides his past relationship even if they were only emotional and not sexual. You would feel helpless if you found out that later.

[Alpha_Female]

Salam.

^ WA wr wb..

that's why we have repentance. i understand that if one considers themselves pure, they'd ideally want someone as pure, but i think it may be different when considering one who has repented and one who has not. obviously, if the female is religious, she wouldn't look for the type of guys who haven't repented.

EDIT: what if a guy was married previously and his wife passed an an early age. would you consider him or is he off limits because of past relations?

EDIT#2: to give you a better understanding of what i mean of Tauba(repentance) check out what is said to be Imam Ali's definition of Tauba.

*what i often recommend others to look for in a spouse is for one that has willingness to learn and willingness to accept change.

To be honest, I don't think a guy repenting his past would make a difference to me personally. I'd obviously respect him for it, and wish for Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, to forgive his sins...but I would still feel the jealousy...because his experiences have still happened despite his repentence .

To answer your question, I don't think I could marry a man who's already been married before, no. If his wife passed away, in the back of my mind, I'd always think that he'd still be with her, and not me, if she was alive. That death is the only thing that bonds me with him...

[gogiison2]

^ WA wr wb

Imam al asr madad

Bismillah..

from your answers i see that you most likely will have a problem with your husband marrying a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. and most likely you won't accept being taken as a 2nd wife. it's overall your choice sister. enjoy your time on shiachat and hit the books and iA your visions will be crystal clear like the pepsi that they used to sell lol.

Now, one more question. let's say Imam al asr came out of ghayba and recommended you a guy that had a past, would you accept? we must understand that these ahadith are kind of synonymous with the word of Imam if we think about it.

Edited December 5, 2009 by gogiison2

[Alpha_Female]

Salam.

As I see it, your main requirements are general and sought by everyone. The only thing that is special or extraordinary is the one I have highlighted. This expectation is not rare among females. If you never had any experience, you sometimes require that you future husband must also be experience-less. You can find sexually innocent guys if you look hard - BUT finding a guy who has no, as you put it, emotional baggage is next to impossible. (I'd say it is extremely hard to find even a female with no emotional experience). Then the guy you want must also be educated and financially dependent. This stability normally comes when the guy is at least in his mid twenties or late twenties, not before. This is a lot of time to remain emotionally and/or sexually innocent. I am assuming that guys who are not sexually innocent are so through halal means - but of course, many are involved in fornication.

You've got some good points. I mentioned in a previous post that I don't mind crushes and "puppy love"...but I can't be bothered with a man who feels like he's lost the love of his life or his first love. I simply refuse to be 2nd best.

Yes, that's what worried me and made me believe that maybe my surroundings are right about my requirement on virginity. You'd think that it's among Muslim men that one would be able to find a virgin man, but...I'm not so sure now that Muslim men keep it in their pants anymore (pardon my French).

Also, you only discover yourself (your positives and negatives), and balance your perceptions and expectations once you have lived through a relationship. A guy who has virtually no experience - at least emotional if not sexual - runs the risk of failing in his first ever relationship. Perhaps guys are more emotionally unstable then women, but you wouldn't want that happening to you. I'd suggest you to be more lenient with your criteria. Think about a guy who successfully hides his past relationship even if they were only emotional and not sexual. You would feel helpless if you found out that later.

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. Sure, having some experiences definitely makes us aware of ourselves more so than if we have none. But I don't agree that you need to have lived through full-blown relationships before you have an idea of how to make a marriage work. I mean, people throughout history have been able to make marriages work without having had relationships first. I mean, what sexual and emotiona experiences did our Prophet, peace be upon him, have before he married Khadija? What about Imam Ali? Did he have a girlfriend before he got married? I very much doubt it...

[naro]

Search and you will find.

Don't give a damn about those who say you will never find.

[Alpha_Female]

Salam again.

^ WA wr wb

Imam al asr madad

Bismillah..

from your answers i see that you most likely will have a problem with your husband marrying a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. and most likely you'll never accept being taken as a 2nd wife. it's overall your choice sister. enjoy your time on shiachat and hit the books and iA your visions will be crystal clear like the pepsi that they used to sell lol.

Now, one more question. let's say Imam al asr came out of ghayba and recommended you a guy that had a past, would you accept? we must understand that these ahadith are kind of synonymous with the word of Imam if we think about it.

lol, Yes, I'm sure I will have a hard time (and yes, polygamy is definitely off-limits for me personally. But as any other Muslim I recognize the halalness of it) ...but it's okay, I'm only 19, and have a lot of energy and time to invest in my "project" . And thank you...I love Pepsi .

To your question: well, a recommendation is just that: a recommendation. Which means that saying yes isn't necessarily better than saying no, and vice versa. I guess for me to say yes to this recommendation, I'd have to know the benefits of saying yes.

I don't think a man would want to marry me if he knew that I need persuation to marry him, lol. Which is another side of the issue...because men surely must have requirements, too...

Salam.

Search and you will find.

Don't give a damn about those who say you will never find.

Inshallah .

[Maryaam]

I dont see anything objectionalble about what you are saying. You have the right to be picky and sure before you get married. If you are the jealous type you are right to avoid situations that would create jealousy. There are men out there with the attributes you desire – including those with no sexual history – men are able to control themselves. I even know of a man who had access to his wife for several months post nikah who respected her wish for no intercourse till the ceremony. All things are possible.

You are right not to set yourself up for failure. Knowing yourself – your strengths as well as your weaknesses is important to determine and accept before making such a big decision. So, go for what is right for you.

Marrying a man whose wife had died would be difficult. People who die young tend to be remembered for their saintly qualities only. You would be competing with a ghost who can do no wrong. You run the possibility of never being able to measure up. And then again is the possibility of the jealousy factor.

Men with sexual experiences do carry baggage and that baggage could be reall difficult for you to deal with. I also have a personal theory that a man with sexual experiences may not be satisfied with his wife - always looking for the best bits of each of those in his past. That would make if very difficult for you as well.

I don't think a man would want to marry me if he knew that I need persuation to marry him, lol. Which is another side of the issue...because men surely must have requirements, too...

Yes - most men are quite picky as well and rightfully so.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Maryaam

[gogiison2]

Salam again.

lol, Yes, I'm sure I will have a hard time (and yes, polygamy is definitely off-limits for me personally. But as any other Muslim I recognize the halalness of it) ...but it's okay, I'm only 19, and have a lot of energy and time to invest in my "project" . And thank you...I love Pepsi .

To your question: well, a recommendation is just that: a recommendation. Which means that saying yes isn't necessarily better than saying no, and vice versa. I guess for me to say yes to this recommendation, I'd have to know the benefits of saying yes.

I don't think a man would want to marry me if he knew that I need persuation to marry him, lol. Which is another side of the issue...because men surely must have requirements, too...

Salam.

lol. a recommendation from Thomas or Larry or Herbert or Aunt Tilda or Xavier or Munavir is different from that of the Imam. i know you know this but sometimes we need to hear it as it works kind of like the refresh button on our computers. will you really question Imam about what benefits you'll get from saying yes, if Imam only recommended one person and it just so happened that he had a past relation(s)? and afterwards would you then say no? would it still be a yes-no recommendation for you?

of course men have requirements. some have lower standards than others. but i think we should concentrate on you for now since you made the thread lol.

Edited December 5, 2009 by gogiison2

[Alpha_Female]

Salam Maryaam.

I dont see anything objectionalble about what you are saying. You have the right to be picky and sure before you get married. If you are the jealous type you are right to avoid situations that would create jealousy. There are men out there with the attributes you desire – including those with no sexual history – men are able to control themselves. I even know of a man who had access to his wife for several months post nikah who respected her wish for no intercourse till the ceremony. All things are possible.

You are right not to set yourself up for failure. Knowing yourself – your strengths as well as your weaknesses is important to determine and accept before making such a big decision. So, go for what is right for you.

Marrying a man whose wife had died would be difficult. People who die young tend to be remembered for their saintly qualities only. You would be competing with a ghost who can do no wrong. You run the possibility of never being able to measure up. And then again is the possibility of the jealousy factor.

Men with sexual experiences do carry baggage and that baggage could be reall difficult for you to deal with. I also have a personal theory that a man with sexual experiences may not be satisfied with his wife - always looking for the best bits of each of those in his past. That would make if very difficult for you as well.

Yes - most men are quite picky as well and rightfully so.

You've basically written my own thoughts down . I have the exact same theories and concerns about men with sexual pasts and men with dead wives. I'm seriously not looking for the trouble and hardships in a marriage that could, and most likely would, accur with a man with a past. I just want peace and quiet, lol.

[Alpha_Female]

Salam.

lol. a recommendation from Thomas or Larry or Herbert or Aunt Tilda or Xavier or Munavir is different from that of the Imam. i know you know this but sometimes we need to hear it as it works kind of like the refresh button on our computers. will you really question Imam about what benefits you'll get from saying yes, if Imam only recommended one person and it just so happened that he had a past relation(s)? and afterwards would you then say no? would it still be a yes-no recommendation for you?

of course men have requirements. some have lower standards than others. but i think we should concentrate on you for now since you made the thread lol.

I'm pretty sure Imam wouldn't mind explaining the benefits of taking his advice to me. I don't think, by asking him to do so, is the same as questioning his crediability. I think it's pretty humane to not be sure at times, and ask questions with the intention to know what you're accepting before you're accepting it. If Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, has asked us to ask questions about Him and look for knowledge even if we have to go to China to find it, then I don't see any problems in also asking questions about and to Imam - inshallah .

[Maryaam]

Salam Maryaam.

You've basically written my own thoughts down . I have the exact same theories and concerns about men with sexual pasts and men with dead wives. I'm seriously not looking for the trouble and hardships in a marriage that could, and most likely would, accur with a man with a past. I just want peace and quiet, lol.

Wasalams

Yup, Life is complicated enough - it is wise to take the time to know yourself and reflect on what would work for you. Set yourself up for the best chances at peace and harmony and a sync with a partner with common goals and aspirations.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Maryaam

[gogiison2]

Salam.

I'm pretty sure Imam wouldn't mind explaining the benefits of taking his advice to me. I don't think, by asking him to do so, is the same as questioning his crediability. I think it's pretty humane to not be sure at times, and ask questions with the intention to know what you're accepting before you're accepting it. If Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, has asked us to ask questions about Him and look for knowledge even if we have to go to China to find it, then I don't see any problems in also asking questions about and to Imam - inshallah .

i didn't intend to put too much emphasis on whether it's okay to ask Imam. of course we have a right to ask for reassurance. kind of like how it's said Prophet Ibrahim did in the case of the birds. what i did want to show is how can one still think of saying no.

[Marbles]

You've got some good points. I mentioned in a previous post that I don't mind crushes and "puppy love"...but I can't be bothered with a man who feels like he's lost the love of his life or his first love. I simply refuse to be 2nd best.

I understand you better now. I agree that it is hard to get along with a person whose previous experience of love affects your relationship with them, often, in subtle ways. It can be agonising for the one on the receiving end.

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. Sure, having some experiences definitely makes us aware of ourselves more so than if we have none. But I don't agree that you need to have lived through full-blown relationships before you have an idea of how to make a marriage work. I mean, people throughout history have been able to make marriages work without having had relationships first. I mean, what sexual and emotiona experiences did our Prophet, peace be upon him, have before he married Khadija? What about Imam Ali? Did he have a girlfriend before he got married? I very much doubt it...

A person with no experience can definitely make the (first time) marriage work very well. I am not saying it can't happen. But some of us can have totally unrealistic expectations of a relationship with a woman, or not fully aware of our own selves, and thus fail at building a healthy marriage. I am only reporting my observations. I am also not saying that one has to go through a full-blown relationship. It's more about an experience, call it infatuation, crush, love etc, where you try to build a dynamic with the beloved, and discover many things along the way.

I don't think bringing up examples of the Prophet and the Imam is meaningful in this case - us guys are not infallibles. Not to mention that we live in a radically different world than the people of the past lived in.

[Muhammed Ali]

My main requirements for a guy (besides Muslimness) is that he's intelligent, educated (schoolwise), stable and independant (financially), spontaneous, funny, interesting, loving and kind, loyal, takes me seriously - aaand has NO past with women; no emotional or sexual baggage whatsoever. I don't have any of that myself, and I'm too jealous of a person to deal with a man who has it, so I feel like it isn't at all an unfair requirement to make. But what do you think? AM I being unrealistic?

I personally think your standards may be too low ...... and I am not joking, seriously.

This one however may be unislamic ------> independant (financially),. Imam Ali[a] wasn't financially stable.

[Marbles]

I personally think your standards may be too low ...... and I am not joking, seriously.

This one however may be unislamic ------> independant (financially),. Imam Ali[a] wasn't financially stable.

If Imam Ali wasn't financially independent, it does not follow that looking for a financially independent guy is unIslamic, whether makrooh or haram.

The label 'unIslamic' should be used parsimoniously and only where it is suited.

[Muhammed Ali]

If Imam Ali wasn't financially independent, it does not follow that looking for a financially independent guy is unIslamic, whether makrooh or haram.

The label 'unIslamic' should be used parsimoniously and only where it is suited.

It is unislamic because it is a distrust of Allah. Allah has given so much to us since we were born, and to believe that he wont provide in the future is a stage of kufr. Allah is merciful and he is not a tyrant. In this area a woman should look for a man who is hardworking and smart because: "Seek after sustenance, for certainly it is guaranteed for the one who goes after it." Imam Ali.

The messenger of Allah : "Whoever refrains from marriage because of fear of poverty, he has indeed thought badly of God."

It was the distrust of Allah which made parents kill their own children.

6:151 .... and do not slay your children for (fear of) poverty-- We provide for you and for them ....

If it was good enough for lady Fatimah [a] then it should be good enough anyone who considers themselves an alpha female

Edited December 5, 2009 by Muhammed Ali

[Alpha_Female]

Salam.

I personally think your standards may be too low ...... and I am not joking, seriously.

This one however may be unislamic ------> independant (financially),. Imam Ali[a] wasn't financially stable.

I didn't write down all the things that are important to me, I just gave you guys an idea of where my priorities lie.

I agree with Marbles that labelling things as "unislamic" should be done parsimoniously. Wanting a financially stable man has nothing to do with distrusting Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, at all but everything to do with wanting to live comfortably. Note that I'm not asking for a billionaire, Palace and Ferrari, just for someone who's stable enough to financially support a family. I don't think there's anything unislamic about that, or any disrespectful tones towards Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, in that.

[BabyBeaverIsAKit]

It is unislamic because it is a distrust of Allah. Allah has given so much to us since we were born, and to believe that he wont provide in the future is a stage of kufr. Allah is merciful and he is not a tyrant. In this area a woman should look for a man who is hardworking and smart because: "Seek after sustenance, for certainly it is guaranteed for the one who goes after it." Imam Ali.

The messenger of Allah : "Whoever refrains from marriage because of fear of poverty, he has indeed thought badly of God."

It was the distrust of Allah which made parents kill their own children.

6:151 .... and do not slay your children for (fear of) poverty-- We provide for you and for them ....

If it was good enough for lady Fatimah [a] then it should be good enough anyone who considers themselves an alpha female

Why do anything in life if we trust that Allah will make everything happen? Does any effort put forth in life constitute distrust of Allah? Certainly not. Allah does not say to abandon logic and reason when he says to trust him. It is very logical to want a financially stable husband, since that is his Islamic duty.

[Bonafide Hustler]

Salam all.

I'm not interested in getting married yet; I don't have the desire or the will right now to take on the responsibilities that marriage would impose on me. With that said though, I would like to get married some day so I obviously do think about what qualities I'd like a significant other to possess. I know I have an unusual amount of requirements and demands - that I am very picky about men...but I honestly don't think I'm being unrealistic or unfair at all; I'm not asking for anything that I can't "offer" or "put on the table" for a man myself, you know? However, my surroundings seem to be ridiculing me, laughing at me and saying things like, "good luck, Babe, you'll never find a guy like that". At first, I was able to convince myself that my surroundings just meet a "certain" type of people, NOT my type of people, and therefor don't know/haven't experienced any better. But since then I've talked to some guys that I've been interested in (seriously, of course) who all turned out to not live up to my requirements. I therefore rejected them...and had to hear from them as well that I'm basically dellusional, unrealistic and unfair in my requirements...that I'm never going to meet the type of man that I require because such man doesn't exist. I've come to the point where I've actually started to believe it...I guess I'm writing this thread to hear what other Muslims think (since people around me aren't Muslims), and maybe tell me something that will make me feel that I'm not being unrealistic as everyone tells me I am...

My main requirements for a guy (besides Muslimness) is that he's intelligent, educated (schoolwise), stable and independant (financially), spontaneous, funny, interesting, loving and kind, loyal, takes me seriously - aaand has NO past with women; no emotional or sexual baggage whatsoever. I don't have any of that myself, and I'm too jealous of a person to deal with a man who has it, so I feel like it isn't at all an unfair requirement to make. But what do you think? AM I being unrealistic?

I understand where you are coming from but you are being extremely unfair in one respect. It is perfectly cool to demand of a man to live upto your expectations so long as they are under his control. The fact that you come across a man, single but was in some sort of a relationship with another individual in the past should hold absolutely no bearing on your decision. There is nothing wrong with men who have been in relationships before, in fact most men 20 years + have been. Loving, caring, spontaneous, financially stable, educated are all fair calls but the fact you cannot stand a man who liked another girl at one point in his life is unfair on your part. Honestly you are cutting your options short significantly and its you who might suffer. Just because a man has been involved in the past doesn't mean he is incapable of rocking your world, ESPECIALLY considering being in a relationship isnt a crime and completely independent of his personality.

[Maryaam]

I understand where you are coming from but you are being extremely unfair in one respect. It is perfectly cool to demand of a man to live upto your expectations so long as they are under his control. The fact that you come across a man, single but was in some sort of a relationship with another individual in the past should hold absolutely no bearing on your decision. There is nothing wrong with men who have been in relationships before, in fact most men 20 years + have been. Loving, caring, spontaneous, financially stable, educated are all fair calls but the fact you cannot stand a man who liked another girl at one point in his life is unfair on your part. Honestly you are cutting your options short significantly and its you who might suffer. Just because a man has been involved in the past doesn't mean he is incapable of rocking your world, ESPECIALLY considering being in a relationship isnt a crime and completely independent of his personality.

There are no guarantees, but dont you think that she has the option to seek this if it is important to her. I dont think a man's past necessarily is a good thing or bad - it depends on how he deals with it so that it does not impact others. But she may feel very strongly that the possiblity is there that either there was an unhappy past relationship that will make him feel less open towards her or an unreciprocated love that he still yearns to have and she is second best.

I dont understand the male response here - I have read so many threads where it is accepted without question that many men only want untouched girls for potential mates. But for a woman to state the same is seen as unrealisitc. What is the difference in thinking??

[Bonafide Hustler]

There are no guarantees, but dont you think that she has the option to seek this if it is important to her. I dont think a man's past necessarily is a good thing or bad - it depends on how he deals with it so that it does not impact others. But she may feel very strongly that the possiblity is there that either there was an unhappy past relationship that will make him feel less open towards her or an unreciprocated love that he still yearns to have and she is second best.

I dont understand the male response here - I have read so many threads where it is accepted without question that many men only want untouched girls for potential mates. But for a woman to state the same is seen as unrealisitc. What is the difference in thinking??

Well I only said what I did since I wouldn't hold it against a girl myself. The way he dealt with his past relationships is a very relevant and critical issue but having problems solely with the fact he was in a relationship before is unfair in my opinion.

[guest 34193]

I dont understand the male response here - I have read so many threads where it is accepted without question that many men only want untouched girls for potential mates. But for a woman to state the same is seen as unrealisitc. What is the difference in thinking??

Because men and women are not the same. The woman submits herself to her husband, the husband however does not submit to his wife. By her having had no relations with anyone but him is like a further cementing of this. The virginity will likely be gone very quickly, but the fact that she has given herself to him, and only him, will remain.

(Expecting to possibly burn a few of those reputation points on the above statement...)

[Maryaam]

Because men and women are not the same. The woman submits herself to her husband, the husband however does not submit to his wife. By her having had no relations with anyone but him is like a further cementing of this. The virginity will likely be gone very quickly, but the fact that she has given herself to him, and only him, will remain.

(Expecting to possibly burn a few of those reputation points on the above statement...)

I understand that there is an insistence by many men who most definitely desire to have a wife who has only been with them.

I dont understand why the reaction if a woman just happens to want a husband who has only been with her. She is aware she is limiting her pool of possiblities somewhat, but is accepting of that,. It is her choice. And there are men who plan only to be with their wife... her choice wouldnt affect the men who dont plan to only be with their permanent wife.

[BabyBeaverIsAKit]

Because men and women are not the same. The woman submits herself to her husband, the husband however does not submit to his wife. By her having had no relations with anyone but him is like a further cementing of this. The virginity will likely be gone very quickly, but the fact that she has given herself to him, and only him, will remain.

(Expecting to possibly burn a few of those reputation points on the above statement...)

I realize this may be slightly tangential to the topic, but here is my response:

There is no relationship between a wife submitting to her husband AFTER marriage and her having had a relationship in the PAST. She is not his wife until she marries him, so she doesn't have to submit herself to him until she is married to him. The fact of her being "touched" in the past has no bearing on her submission to her present husband. This is a bit rude on my part, but I really think this is a weak attempt at justifying a double standard.

I am not against a man or woman wanting an "untouched" partner, so long as he/she is also "untouched".

Edited December 6, 2009 by BabyBeaverIsAKit

[Alpha_Female]

Salam.

Why do anything in life if we trust that Allah will make everything happen? Does any effort put forth in life constitute distrust of Allah? Certainly not. Allah does not say to abandon logic and reason when he says to trust him. It is very logical to want a financially stable husband, since that is his Islamic duty.

Very good post, thank you :). As someone else somewhat wrote, it's pretty normal that women are being told they're in the wrong when they expect something out of men - especially if it's something men can't live up to. So when a man is not financially stable he'll say it's haram to require a financially stable man. When a man is not a virgin he'll have some other explanation as to why it's not right or normal for a woman to expect any man to be a virgin. I think this may just be part of male nature, lol. I mean, the excusing themselves and trying to make the women believe they're the ones in the wrong when the defficiency lies within them.

I do realize that I'm limiting the selection of men down to a minimum when I require a virgin man. But that's what I want: a small selection of men who're right for me. Not a huge selection of men who're wrong for me. I think men like to have a huge selection of women to choose from, regardless of how right or wrong they are for them...but I think women are a bit different. We don't need a big selection to choose from...

[Abu Ali 2]

Salam all.

My main requirements for a guy (besides Muslimness) is that he's intelligent, educated (schoolwise), stable and independant (financially), spontaneous, funny, interesting, loving and kind, loyal, takes me seriously - aaand has NO past with women; no emotional or sexual baggage whatsoever. I don't have any of that myself, and I'm too jealous of a person to deal with a man who has it, so I feel like it isn't at all an unfair requirement to make. But what do you think? AM I being unrealistic?

Salam,

Some of your requirements are unimportant to having a good married life and will eliminate some men unneccessarily (so they should be disregarded).

Things to cross off the list

For a women to require that a man have no previous experience with women will eliminate many men who would otherwise be good "marriage material", because to have "baggage" and have experience are two different issues (I agree they should not have "baggage"). Spontaneous, funny and interesting are a "moving target", and your perception of whether a person possesses these qualities changes over time and with changing circumstances ( and noone posses these qualties all the time, and it would be ridiculous if they did). "Loyal" is fine, as long as you are aware of the difference in the meaning of the term for a husband vs. a wife in Islam. If you are going to be looking for a man who will agree (in writing in the marriage contract) to not marry any other women while you are married to eachother then this is permitted in Islam, however, again you eliminate many good candidates unnecessarily.

Things to keep on the list

His Iman (qualify of his faith) is the NUMBER ONE thing you should look at. If his faith is good, your marriage will be a happy one. If he has good faith then he will be both intelligent and wise. Financially stable is also important, athough remember that whether the man is poor or rich when you marry him that can (and usually does) change and sometimes very quickly. The important thing is that the man has a good and workable plan for supporting his family, is not lazy and is not engaged in any haram business. Loving and kind are also very important, but these qualities are only found in those with strong faith.

[Alpha_Female]

Salam Abu Ali 2.

You raised some good points. You're right that things like financial situation, humour and such are things that can and probably will change. But I don't see men with experiences and baggage with women as good candidates at all. I respect that that's your opinion of them but...it's just not mine.

And yes, I do intend to write it down on the marriage contract that I don't want to share my husband...I do realize that he'll be able to marry others if I don't. But hopefully he'll not be the type of guy who considers other women anyway...inshallah.