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In the Name of God بسم الله

what is the point in permanent marriage?

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Mohammed-W

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(bismillah) (salam)

i am willfully (it seems) ignorant of muta I have read these verses and i cant see how it means muta is halal.

Anyway if you believe that verses in nisa 24 are for muta then i wonder where is the proof in quran of permanent marriage? and what is the point of a permanent marriage? when you could just renew every ......What woman in her right mind would marry a man permanently when he can.........you could imagine the possibilites (I dont even feel comfortable mentioning them.)

permanent marriage seems like a lose lose situation for women :wub: who accept muta. It seems like a rip off to get permanently married.

yes yes i know we have examples but is it specified in quran? specifically?

I have presumed permanent marriage into evrything i read so is it specifically mentioned in the quran?(as muta is claimed to above verse)

where is the proof in quran of permanent marriage? and what is the point of a permanent marriage? these are the questions

appreciate any help.

Edited by Mohammed-W
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(salam)

muta is only allowed twice, and should be used to be considered for permanent marriage and being married has many benefits one is having someone you love for a very long time :) who would object to what Allah has ordained as good. surly the prophet (pbuh) married his wife's permanently!

It is He Who has created man from water: then has He established relationships of lineage and Marriage: for thy Lord has power .

( سورة الفرقان , Al-Furqan, Chapter #25, Verse #54)

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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If you're referring to ayat 24, sura an-nisa, that's because it specifically uses the verb of istimta`, which was a term used back then for mut`a (same root letters), and is what the ahadith say it's referring to. Remember, Sunnis and Shi`as are agreed that mut`a had been lawful and practiced by the early Muslims, the difference is in whether it continues to be allowed today. We say it is as Allah and His Messenger (pbuh) did not forbid it, as was taught by the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt (as).

There are some key differences though between temporary and permanent marriage apart from the duration. So, in mut`a the woman does not inherit from the husband, nor is she entitled to maintenance. As such, it should be pretty obvious most women (generally speaking) would prefer to end up in a permanent marriage rather than a temporary one. As to the husband's right on this and why a woman would want to enter into such a marriage with him, well he also would have the right to marry a second, third or fourth wife, and to purchase slave women and have sexual intercourse with them according to all Muslim sects, Sunni and Shi`a, so I'm not sure what you're getting at on this one.

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(salam)

muta is only allowed twice,

(wasalam)

where did you hear this?

and should be used to be considered for permanent marriage

that's one possibility but not the only reason for using it.

surly the prophet (pbuh) married his wife's permanently!

he did marry a number of wives permanently, however there are many hadiths that encourage mut`a in order to revive the Sunna, hence it stands to reason it was part of it.

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(wasalam)

where did you hear this?

that's one possibility but not the only reason for using it.

he did marry a number of wives permanently, however there are many hadiths that encourage mut`a in order to revive the Sunna, hence it stands to reason it was part of it.

this where my reasoning is going.

I am looking at things critically to understand better.

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If you're referring to ayat 24, sura an-nisa, that's because it specifically uses the verb of istimta`, which was a term used back then for mut`a (same root letters), and is what the ahadith say it's referring to. Remember, Sunnis and Shi`as are agreed that mut`a had been lawful and practiced by the early Muslims, the difference is in whether it continues to be allowed today. We say it is as Allah and His Messenger (pbuh) did not forbid it, as was taught by the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt (as).

There are some key differences though between temporary and permanent marriage apart from the duration. So, in mut`a the woman does not inherit from the husband, nor is she entitled to maintenance. As such, it should be pretty obvious most women (generally speaking) would prefer to end up in a permanent marriage rather than a temporary one. As to the husband's right on this and why a woman would want to enter into such a marriage with him, well he also would have the right to marry a second, third or fourth wife, and to purchase slave women and have sexual intercourse with them according to all Muslim sects, Sunni and Shi`a, so I'm not sure what you're getting at on this one.

i have specifically asked for words or roots in quran that specify permanent marriage from point of contract.

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(bismillah) (salam)

i am willfully (it seems) ignorant of muta I have read these verses and i cant see how it means muta is halal.

Salam,

You should not remain willfully ignorant of anything that was commonly practiced and well understood and halal during the lifetime of the prophet and the early Muslim community. Marriage is a very important part of Islam, and mutah is another type of marriage that all Muslims agree was allowed during the lifetime of the Prophet Mohammad (a.s.) That is not to say that mutah (like plural marriage) is generally wajib or even mustahab in most situations....however, the knowledge that it is halal (and the rules regarding mutah) should not be ingored.

You have asked for proof from the Quran, while ignoring the sunnah of the Prophet (a.s.). As you know, the Sunnah of the Prophet (a.s.) is an equivalent proof which gives a detailed exegesis of the Holy Quran. Also, for the women the issue of whether it is a "lose/lose" in some situations is irrelevant to whether or not it is halal because it is ultimately the women's choice to enter into a marriage or not, regardless of the type of marriage. The best course is to arm oneself with knowledge before arguing about something that you are "willfully ignorant" of.

Edited by Abu Ali 2
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where is the proof in quran of permanent marriage? and what is the point of a permanent marriage? these are the questions

appreciate any help.

(salam)

I think the quranic verses have been presented in this thread.

To answer your second question, there are many reasons for permanent marriage. I will briefly mention few benefits here

i) Long term goal (including religious goal)

ii) Security

iii) Children upbringing

iv) Level of comfort

v) Growing old together

vi) Companionship/friendship

vii) Financial gain/ business/ social partnership

and others.

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Salam,

You should not remain willfully ignorant of anything that was commonly practiced and well understood and halal during the lifetime of the prophet and the early Muslim community. Marriage is a very important part of Islam, and mutah is another type of marriage that all Muslims agree was allowed during the lifetime of the Prophet Mohammad (a.s.) That is not to say that mutah (like plural marriage) is generally wajib or even mustahab in most situations....however, the knowledge that it is halal (and the rules regarding mutah) should not be ingored.

You have asked for proof from the Quran, while ignoring the sunnah of the Prophet (a.s.). As you know, the Sunnah of the Prophet (a.s.) is an equivalent proof which gives a detailed exegesis of the Holy Quran. Also, for the women the issue of whether it is a "lose/lose" in some situations is irrelevant to whether or not it is halal because it is ultimately the women's choice to enter into a marriage or not, regardless of the type of marriage. The best course is to arm oneself with knowledge before arguing about something that you are "willfully ignorant" of.

(wasalam) (bismillah)

i am trying to understand this from scratch, I am criticising my failure to see as willful ignorance since i cannot see how a root of a word that means pleasure = temporary.

I cant see the connection. To say a words root MTA was used for a type of marriage i.e tempory then say whenever you see this root it does mean temporary does not make sense, the word means pleasure As I have said before i have assumed everything you say into my reading but now i am weighing it up critically my personal opinion has not been stated yet.

since some argue these verses = temporary i am asking if someone can clearly show me verses that state a word that =marriage as permanent at point of contract.

meaning I am looking for the opposite of muta clearly stated as some argue the muta is clearly stated. (in quran)

i have specifically asked for words or roots in quran that specify permanent marriage from point of contract.

please if someone could help I would appreciate it

Edited by Mohammed-W
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(salam)

I think the quranic verses have been presented in this thread.

To answer your second question, there are many reasons for permanent marriage. I will briefly mention few benefits here

i) Long term goal (including religious goal)

ii) Security

iii) Children upbringing

iv) Level of comfort

v) Growing old together

vi) Companionship/friendship

vii) Financial gain/ business/ social partnership

and others.

(wasalam) (bismillah)

permanent marriage means you commit and HOPE for all the above with no get out clause. my statement is that permenant marriage that allows muta is a lose lose for women.

Men would not be so fast to hurt their wives feelings if they were in a contract that will need renewel. (if he wants her to stay and cant bear the thought of her with another man)........which is actually the disposition of a believer.

so here is a scenario he says i have the right to do muta everyday with three different women she does not want aids etc she goes for a divorce and is told it is his right her jealousy is kuffur so she has to divorce or do khul (with all the pain and stigma)

or be obedent and loving. And teach her daughter the same crucifiction.

however if the conract was temporary to start with (the mahr could be for how much she needs to provide for herself for that period of time) at the end she could agree to permenant or end without fuss. in this scenario he will not hurt her if he wants her to stay.

anyway thats my only point that jumping into the deep end leaves females accused of kufr etc when they try to hold the family together with a man who does what he wants because she has to get permission to divorce or do knul (which is for hypocrite women)

so now i am seeking the exact verse that states marriage being permanent at point of contract.

if as you say umar banned it it is possible that it was norm to do muta until you agree to permanent.... of course it is the aim of all believers to be permenently married. in this scenario a man has to earn his wife staying with him it is absurd to believe in a mans goodness for success his jealousy is belief and hers is kufr so instead of her being jealous and burining in kufr she says simply i am not going to renew and he chooses what he wants to do end of story and the abuse of women (yes it is abuse to marry a woman for life and say i can do whatever i want suck it up you have kufr you are no good etc) this would decrease dramitically when he realizes that in 6 months she may just leave his sorry behind.

withou them being backed into a corner.

What is the point of Muta perhaps you could ask.

(salam)

dont spoil things brother ;)

Edited by Mohammed-W
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(bismillah) (salam)

permanent marriage seems like a lose lose situation for women :wub: who accept muta. It seems like a rip off to get permanently married.

yes yes i know we have examples but is it specified in quran? specifically?

where is the proof in quran of permanent marriage? and what is the point of a permanent marriage? these are the questions

appreciate any help.

[/quote

]

salam

This statement reminded me of an article i read a while back thought i might share with those of economic inclinations- it is a little amusing: http://www.forbes.com/2006/02/11/economics-prostitution-marriage_cx_mn_money06_0214prostitution.html

wasalam :)

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mutah is if ur in a situation where if u dont do mutah u will sin, but to start jumping from woman to woman u r losing the point of ur existence which is to warship god not to become a womaniser. so get permanently married if u can and move on to things which r more important like becoming closer to Allah n worshiping him.

Edited by AlgerianShia
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(bismillah) (salam)

i am willfully (it seems) ignorant of muta I have read these verses and i cant see how it means muta is halal.

Anyway if you believe that verses in nisa 24 are for muta then i wonder where is the proof in quran of permanent marriage? and what is the point of a permanent marriage? when you could just renew every ......What woman in her right mind would marry a man permanently when he can.........you could imagine the possibilites (I dont even feel comfortable mentioning them.)

permanent marriage seems like a lose lose situation for women :wub: who accept muta. It seems like a rip off to get permanently married.

yes yes i know we have examples but is it specified in quran? specifically?

I have presumed permanent marriage into evrything i read so is it specifically mentioned in the quran?(as muta is claimed to above verse)

where is the proof in quran of permanent marriage? and what is the point of a permanent marriage? these are the questions

appreciate any help.

I am probably not adding much to what you what you have already said...but...

I found reasons for marriage (shared by permanent and temporary) – listed below and I found reasons exclusive to temporary marriage for women (who you are referring to here)...and it seems mutah is seen as helpful for her to decide if her husband is “qualified” for marriage in a way that is free of pressure or blurred with the need for instant gratification. This would help with what you identified as the worry of a woman being trapped in a marriage with a man who was not responsible or was abusive, as she has the full ability to leave whereas in a permanent marriage she may not.

If you choose mutah, there is more reward if you extend your temporary contract after expiry with a payout of dower and new contract with a new dower....perhaps leading to but it seems it is not necessary, to permanent marriage. So there seems to be encouragement to remain together either through another mutah or permanent marriage.

.........in the verse 4:24 Allah states, "...And there is no sin for you in what you both agree after fulfilling the duty (i.e., dowry of the first contract)".

The mutual agreement after the duty refers to extending the period of temporary marriage after full payment of the previous dower, so that the woman can freely decide on the continuation of the marriage with no pressure or temptation.

In this way, Allah encourages that people who are engaged in Mut'a will get more reward if they extend it to a bigger period (or perhaps convert it to a permanent marriage) by assigning a new dower after fulfilling the previous dower.

Ibn Jarir al-Tabari wrote in his commentary of Quran:

Some traditions mention that the meaning of "And there is no sin for you in what you both agree after fulfilling the duty" means: O people! There is no sin for you to have an agreement between you and the women who you have had pleasure with them in a fixed-term contract, to extend the period at the time when the first period expires, and thus to prolong the temporary marriage by increasing the reward (of the Hereafter) as well as the duty (dowry) before you leave them.

It is narrated on the authority of al-Suddy (ra) who said:

"And there is no sin for you in what you both agree after fulfilling the requirement. If the husband wishes he could convince her (to accept the renewal) after paying her the first dowry and just before the expiration date of marriage. In that case he would say to his wife: I contract Mut'a with you for such and such again. Thus he extends it before he leaves her due to the expiration of the first contract, and this is what the verse means." (Tradition #9046)

http://www.al-islam.org/ENCYCLOPEDIA/chapter6a/1.html

These goals can be attained by both permanent and temporary marriages:

1. Reproduction – but not necessary

2. Having pleasure and enjoying the other partner – physically and spiritually

"So for those of whom you have pleasure with them (by the contract), you are required to give (them) their wages. And there is no sin for you in what you both agree after the requirement..." (Quran 4:24)

3. Tranquility

"And among His great Signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves so that you get tranquillity by them and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts); verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." (Quran 30:21)

4. Avoid the sin of fornication

"Successful indeed are the believers... those who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond or with the slave girls whom they rightfully possess for (in their case) they are free from blame. But those who go beyond that are transgressors." (Quran 23:1-7)

5. Protecting one's religion

The Messenger of Allah said: "The one who gets married earns half/(one-third) of his religion, and therefore, he should fear God for the other half/(two third)."

These goals are exclusive to temporary marriage:

1. If a man/woman is not sure about the qualification of his proposed wife/husband, he/she may engage in temporary marriage for sometime before his/her official permanent marriage. In this period he/she will realize if the other partner is qualified for a long-term relationship.

2. The other suitable case for temporary marriage is when a boy cannot afford the expenses of a permanent wife which brings many financial responsibilities.

http://www.al-islam.org/ENCYCLOPEDIA/chapter6a/5.html

I couldn’t find any goals exclusive to permanent marriage :unsure: ....which is what you were looking for - but there is encouragement toward (reward for) longer or permanent contracts..

Edited by Maryaam
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mutah is if ur in a situation where if u dont do mutah u will sin, but to start jumping from woman to woman u r losing the point of ur existence which is to warship god not to become a womaniser. so get permanently married if u can and move on to things which r more important like becoming closer to Allah n worshiping him.

i meant continuous mutah with one woman who he loves and when she feels safe agrees to permanent,which prevents her being stick in a rut and a man taking advantage knowingly under the guise of islam

it is propogated that temporary marriage is specifically in quran I am asking for a verse that is specific in the opposite?

otherwise should i assume that i do mutah then make it permanent?

and the permanent marriage from the start is not norm?

or am i to assume that pleasures in arabic means temporary still cant see it??? and i marry for fun and or for a housekeeper to make the fun flow easily.

...... so i can be a womaniser and husband at once and force women to love it or else call them kafir? this meams a wife who wants inheritance and will be a doormat (if need be) and lots of cute beauties for fun and games.

i just want proof from the quran of permanent marriage since the verse (24 an nisa)

doesnt read temporary it reads what you agree for your pleasure (seeking chastity)

to me that means from the start you negotiate and yes you could negotiate permanent there and then, this is enough to cover permanent marriages and we have to earn the wifes trust and lifelong companionship unless we dont mind her leaving and getting herself a man who fulfills all her needs.

which makes me wonder is there a verse that states a word that indicates you marry permanantly from point of contract as seperate to the nisa 24?

I didnt want to interpret the verse but doesnt pleasures you agree upon sound like an agreement that encompasses permanent, if this is the case evryone getting permanantly married and abusing or being abused did not need to live like this. they did it because they desired chastity (why have the hierarchy we should desire chastity anyway)

however if muslims insist on two seperate systems it produce a marriage (permanent) thet could have been negotiated (but wasnt) and muta becomes a pastime (which I have no intention of indulging in).

read the verse below seems Allah is addressing believers (not perverts) and it seems there is no need for two seperate systems.

And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise. nisa 24

a marriage in culture and history has never been a bag of temporary laughs.

When Allah SWT says seeking in marriage is he addressing a pervert who just wants to sleep around legally or believers whose aim is to be permenantly married

(did you even notice the former will arise if you say this verse is only for temporary pleasure?)

so if i dont find another specific system this verse is not for temporary marriage only it is for two adults to agree how they will go about things and eradicates the problems with jumping in the deep end (because 2 systems are proposed to exsist maybe they dont)

a believing woman or man should just negotiate as adults how to go about spending the rest of their life hopefully......... with your future spouse (1 for woman)spouses (upto 4 for men).

I hope this makes it clearer what i am trying to find out.

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This statement reminded me of an article i read a while back thought i might share with those of economic inclinations- it is a little amusing: http://www.forbes.com/2006/02/11/economics-prostitution-marriage_cx_mn_money06_0214prostitution.html

Kind of a cost benefit analysis where spousal choice is determined by the market of what is available. Wives are economic "goods" - "men buy and women sell" and marriages happen when they are profitable. I have heard this before..yup it is simplistic (ignores lots of variables) but accurate in many ways I guess.

Edited by Maryaam
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(salam)

where is the proof in quran of permanent marriage? and what is the point of a permanent marriage? these are the questions

appreciate any help.

(bismillah)

æóÅöäú ÎöÝúÊõãú ÃóáÇøó ÊõÞúÓöØõæÇú Ýöí ÇáúíóÊóÇãóì ÝóÇäßöÍõæÇú ãóÇ ØóÇÈó áóßõã ãøöäó ÇáäøöÓóÇÁ ãóËúäóì æóËõáÇóËó æóÑõÈóÇÚó ÝóÅöäú ÎöÝúÊõãú ÃóáÇøó ÊóÚúÏöáõæÇú ÝóæóÇÍöÏóÉð Ãóæú ãóÇ ãóáóßóÊú ÃóíúãóÇäõßõãú Ðóáößó ÃóÏúäóì ÃóáÇøó ÊóÚõæáõæÇú

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. (4:3)

æóÃóäßöÍõæÇ ÇáúÃóíóÇãóì ãöäßõãú æóÇáÕøóÇáöÍöíäó ãöäú ÚöÈóÇÏößõãú æóÅöãóÇÆößõãú Åöä íóßõæäõæÇ ÝõÞóÑóÇÁ íõÛúäöåöãõ Çááøóåõ ãöä ÝóÖúáöåö æóÇááøóåõ æóÇÓöÚñ Úóáöíãñ

"And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid servants. If they be poor; Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware." (24:32)

Remember though that Islam is more than just the Qur'an. The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was married, so it is Sunnah to do the same. Neither type of marriage is wajib, but highly recommended.

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(salam)

(bismillah)

æóÅöäú ÎöÝúÊõãú ÃóáÇøó ÊõÞúÓöØõæÇú Ýöí ÇáúíóÊóÇãóì ÝóÇäßöÍõæÇú ãóÇ ØóÇÈó áóßõã ãøöäó ÇáäøöÓóÇÁ ãóËúäóì æóËõáÇóËó æóÑõÈóÇÚó ÝóÅöäú ÎöÝúÊõãú ÃóáÇøó ÊóÚúÏöáõæÇú ÝóæóÇÍöÏóÉð Ãóæú ãóÇ ãóáóßóÊú ÃóíúãóÇäõßõãú Ðóáößó ÃóÏúäóì ÃóáÇøó ÊóÚõæáõæÇú

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. (4:3)

æóÃóäßöÍõæÇ ÇáúÃóíóÇãóì ãöäßõãú æóÇáÕøóÇáöÍöíäó ãöäú ÚöÈóÇÏößõãú æóÅöãóÇÆößõãú Åöä íóßõæäõæÇ ÝõÞóÑóÇÁ íõÛúäöåöãõ Çááøóåõ ãöä ÝóÖúáöåö æóÇááøóåõ æóÇÓöÚñ Úóáöíãñ

"And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid servants. If they be poor; Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware." (24:32)

Remember though that Islam is more than just the Qur'an. The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was married, so it is Sunnah to do the same. Neither type of marriage is wajib, but highly recommended.

(salam)

how do these verse mean permanent? and the others ntemporary, since the other verses state an agreement an agreement can be permanent, why is there insistance that there are two systems I only see proof for agreements between believers (they choose) believers not perverts as i said before.

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(salam)

how do these verse mean permanent? and the others ntemporary, since the other verses state an agreement an agreement can be permanent, why is there insistance that there are two systems I only see proof for agreements between believers (they choose) believers not perverts as i said before.

(salam)

Permanent marriage ->

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, then only one

Muta ->

or that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice

(wasalam)

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(wasalam)

where did you hear this?

that's one possibility but not the only reason for using it.

he did marry a number of wives permanently, however there are many hadiths that encourage mut`a in order to revive the Sunna, hence it stands to reason it was part of it.

(salam)

well i consider i was mistaken on twice i was misreading the verse on separation astaghfirulaha and realized this must be for a single person that it is allowed to divorce twice (as in the same person) only thing is that some do abuse this muta and make it into something it should not be. so one must consider deeply to find a wife and get married instead of practicing muta at every chance. Ayatollah Fadlallah said somethings about mut'a i would like to share here since we are on the subject.

Fadlullah calls for Registering the Muta'a marriage in the legal courts

There is a consensus among Muslims on the legality of the Muta'a marriage, which was applied at the time of Muhammad, Abu Baqir and part of the caliphate of Omar.

Then the non-Shiite sects illegalized it, while the Shiites continued to say that it is legal. The Muta'a marriage is called also temporary or timed marriage. It is not concluded in public but remains a secret between the husband and wife. There are some scholars who call for registering it in the authorized courts and governmental departments including the former Iranian President, Hashimi Rafsangani, who holds an important position in the Muslim regime of Iran. The Religious Authority, Sayyed Muhammad Hussein Fadlullah also calls for registering the Marriage, to avoid any foreseeable problems between the couples in the future. Some religious scholars say that there are some courts in Bahrain that register this marriage.

Nahar Ash-Shabab asked the Sayyed about this Marriage, noting that some accuse the Shiites of being "practical" towards the sexual issue, in comparison with the other Islamic sects and other religions.

What in your view is the reason of this?

The Sayyed answered:" The Shiites insist on regulating this issue to avoid any negative aspects. We have suggested that the religious courts should register this marriage, because certain practices have produced negative results owing to the absence of any regulation.

That is why we call for registering these Marriages".

His Eminence added:

"The permanent marriage was not able to solve the problem of sex.

That is why we see that all nations have illegitimate relations, along with the legitimate ones. This is why we notice in the West in particular, that they do not accept polygamy but they accept the multiplicity of mistresses.

"The unavailability of permanent marriage for those who can not afford it owing to the financial difficulties is increasing the number of spinsters in our societies.”

The Sayyed stresses the fact that the Mutaa marriage includes a contract and a fixed time period that both parties agree on. When the period terminates, the contract too ends. If the woman gets pregnant the child is 100% legitimate and the parents should bare their responsibilities towards him.

The Sayyed does not accept the abortion of the Muta'a child under any consideration except, as in the permanent marriage, when the mother's life is threatened. Whoever does that would be committing a crime even if the pregnancy is still in the very early stages. If they resort to abortion they would be committing the crime of murder.

The Sayyed does not agree with those who say that the Muta'a marriage is similar to other illegitimate sexual relationships, since legitimacy lies in the legal form that controls this relationship.

On the other hand, the Sayyed rejects any chaos in marriage whether permanent or Muta'a, since there are certain marriages that are not registered while others take advantage of the women's needs, knowing some marry women to trade with their bodies. Any marriage based on exploitation, that is using the woman as a means, is invalid.

Similar forms of Marriage

The Sunni sect has a similar kind of marriage that serves the same gaol, the legal fulfilment of sexual desires. The only differences lie in the details.

In the Gulf and especially Saudi Arabia there is the "Missiar" marriage which is signed by two witnesses but it remains secret in view of the social and familial circumstances of the couple.

In Egypt it is called the "Urfi" marriage, and the wife should be either divorced or a widow, although virgin girls are also holding such marriages that enjoy sometimes the approval of the parents. The children born of such marriage are legitimate.

In the end, the Muta'a marriage remains an option in a world full of increasing temptation..

(wasalam)

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I'm pretty sure secret marriage is makrooh, not haram.

Ibrahim (as) hid the fact that he was married to Sarah when they traveled to Egypt, because he would have been murdered if it was known that she was his wife. When the pharoah wanted to marry her, Ibrahim revealed the marriage, and the pharoah felt remorse for wishing to marry an already married woman, and sent them away with gifts and protection. (I hope I'm remembering this story correctly. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.)

In general, though, its usually very unwise for a man or woman to agree to keep a marriage secret, but more unwise for the woman.

i mean seceret with no witnesses you could get married and keep it secret (for some reason) but secret with no witnesses sounds plain wicked and perverse e.g when the woman says she is pregnant and no-one witnessed the marriage? And the man denies. (in the past) it seems like an evil rotten marriage to me.

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(salam)

Permanent marriage ->

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, then only one

Muta ->

or that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice

(wasalam)

(wasalam)

thanks brother

thats what i thought in the first place temporary is for slaves until they are free or until you leave them (in war) End of story!!

(I still do mostly except the verse that is put about does not say temporary it talks about agreements and chastity which essentialy you do not need another framwork you could just make permenant)

but this verse describes implementing not a word that is opposite for each. (which is what i am seeking)

so if it is insisted this 'agreement' is only for temporary the opposite word must appear with another marriage.[/b

now instead of being called ignorant and rejecting etc I am unpacking this since I see nothing whatsoever that leads to promiscuity in quran Allah SWT as far as i know is wise enough to not leave it to humans to not abuse the family unit.

still holding out for transaltion of word in nisa 24 from root,plural,to verb and the opposite in quran

because these verses proves again that the verse nisa 24 is about agreements not 'temporary' marriage alongside permanant:...... which leaves promiscuous possibility

am i supposed to believe Allah gives perverts a green card says their wives are kufr if they dont agree,and then leaves it to men to not take the green card?

surely not!

Edited by Mohammed-W
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(salam)

(salam)

how do these verse mean permanent? and the others ntemporary, since the other verses state an agreement an agreement can be permanent, why is there insistance that there are two systems I only see proof for agreements between believers (they choose) believers not perverts as i said before.

Because one verse has the word istamta' which means pleasure, while the other two are talking about normal marriage and do not mention pleasure. As for what the "right hand possesses", that part is talking about slaves.

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(salam)

Because one verse has the word istamta' which means pleasure, while the other two are talking about normal marriage and do not mention pleasure. As for what the "right hand possesses", that part is talking about slaves.

(wasalam)

pleasure? normal marriage?

So the one who created 'pleasure' made 1 marriage 'normal' and one for 'pleasure' and there is no way he means pleasure with a permanent wife also?

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Permanent marriage isn't for players and wannabe players who want a dozen women but for normal men who can stick to one woman, it is a good idea.

And before someone starts PMSing and telling me I am going to hell, it's okay, save your breath. I got the memo. :lol:

Edited by Whizbee
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Because permanent marriage is the real deal, the idea situation in which two individuals have made the critical decision to stay with each other forever. Men can stray with or without mutah so it depends on the man more than the institution. Mutah just helps irresponsible married men deal with their religious hang ups as they go around carelessly fulfilling their sexual desires at the expense of marital stability, trust, and their childrens best interests. They would have done it anyway.

This question is like asking someone why they would rather be married than be a guys serious longtime girlfriend.. cause girls like being the only one.. FOREVER.

I have always assumed that in a permanent marriage my husband will

a.) be so insanely in love with me that he could never contemplate taking another wife

b.) on the off chance that he even thinks about taking another wife (moment of male weakness) the fear I will have systematically instilled in him will dissuade him from making such a foolish decision

c.) if both a and b fail, I will personally see to it that he is both broke and miserable

*crosses fingers for option a*

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
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I have always assumed that in a permanent marriage my husband will

a.) be so insanely in love with me that he could never contemplate taking another wife

b.) on the off chance that he even thinks about taking another wife (moment of male weakness) the fear I will have systematically instilled in him will dissuade him from making such a foolish decision

c.) if both a and b fail, I will personally see to it that he is both broke and miserable

*crosses fingers for option a*

That seems clear. :Hijabi:

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(salam)

In general, everyone wants to graduate, to be promoted, to achieve something ..be it for work, school, organisation

The graduation of life is marriage cuz that's the initial point of starting a family etc... except for people that can't make a commitment due to their job eg. (a sailor, steward) or they simply can't stick to a single, for life relationship and need to move from one to another.

Wouldn't one get tired in this way (referring to the latter)? I guess the term "settling down for good" is not in their dictionary.

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Bona careful, the long bearded brothers are going to jump on you..lol. Most of them can't find one but they still fantasies about the multiple idea...

I don't usually respond to "tongue and cheek" responses such as this, but I will make an exception here because it illustrates an important point. From my experience the most reliably monogamous men that I know are Shia Muslims. If ANY women want's to maximize her chances of marrying a man that will not have a relationship with another women while married to her then she should DEFINITELY become a muslim and marry a Shia (if she is not already one). What is so ironic about these discussions is that the participants are mostly either single men (who don't even engage in mutah themselves) or married men (who do not engage in mutah or have multiple wives).

The reason actually does have much more to do with what is possible then what is reality. The reality is that most single, Shia Muslim men (the religious ones) would be so overjoyed to marry one good, pious women that they wouldn't care about marrying another one after that (at least for awhile). The married men (who have been married for awhile) could not engage in mutah even if they wanted to for practical reasons (and their are many, if anyone wants a list I can post it in reply). So the ones that are left (i.e., religious, Shia Muslim men who are currently engaged in Mutah, or, have multiple permanent wives) are much less then you would find among any other comparable demographic, their relationships are not illicit (i.e., they are known publically), and they have no time to engage in these discussions because they are too busy trying to be just among their multiple wives (it gets very complex from what I hear).

So Muslimah's...in short you have nothing to worrry about except the occasional headache.

Edited by Abu Ali 2
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My own personal experience with mutah has been very negative. I made the mistake of letting a guy who was supposedly divorced talk me into a mutah "so we can get to know each other" prior to permanent marriage (aka American dating rebranded). Everything was clicking along fine and seemed to be heading in the right direction. Then suddenly he "finds out" that his wife and child from back home are coming to join him here in the US. He tells his mother about me, and she demands he gets rid of me and never tell the 'real' wife. Now, as of tonight, I'm on my own again "released" from the last 4 months of the mutah. My young son, who had bonded strongly with him, is as heartbroken as I am.

The lack of commitment, insecurity, and lack of respect was very frustrating. Maybe it was just this particular relationship, but I'm not overly inclined to ever do that again. It left me feeling cheap and disposable.

What makes matters worse is that now I'm alone in an area with few Muslims period most of whom are Sunni. The closest Shia group is 70 miles away, so chances are I'm going to have to pick up and move in order to find someone.

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