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AliSaleh

why is smoking weed so bad?

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The THC content in Weed or Hashish, when it reaches your brain from intake causes a major feeling of intoxication .... like a hypnotic kinda feeling and can result in hallucinations too.

Any "substance" which affects your normal day to day life and prevents you from doing your daily routine is deemed as either haraam or not advisable by religion.

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What about all the adult parents who read what you are saying and then proceed to freak out when they discover one of their children is smoking pot and subsequently severely punish him or her?

That is an irrational statement. A much bigger fear is that some young person is going to read your posts and think that there is no harm in smoking pot. Pot does have medicinal benefit for those who have a serious illness or medical probs, but for the other 99%+ of us it has no positive benefit.

You are a smart man. Do a personal examine on the real reason behind your passionate defense to use this drug. Learn to manage life without a crutch. Life will have brighter and clearer perspective.

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I finally got the answer from a representative of Ayatollah Sistani and he told me that it's haram

The above should be the decisive answer for all actual muslims with at least one working brain cell. My own or anyone else's input is insignificant for a rational believer after reading the above.

However, if someone still wishes to form their own religion, they are most welcome to do so and not our headache. There is even a religion called "The Jedi Order" registered in the UK so please, have mercy on our little minority religion which is already under attack on many dimensions by the satan and his minions. Don't try to shove that psychedelic intoxicant filth into it.

Thank you.

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I stand by what I said. As far as the Sistani quotation, that was brought up in the first couple of pages and so has already been addressed. The supposedly new response from his representative actually does not say anything new. Ayatollah Sistani is an expert on religion not science.

Most of you guys have led sheltered upper class lives. You are out of touch with large segments of your own ethnic populations. You have brought with you so many "truths" that you never really explore. Both the religious prohibition and the scientific prohibition on marijuana are weak. Marijuana cannot be adequately shown to be haram without resorting to distortions of the truth. Therefore, until such time that an adequate, truthful argument can be made about its ill-effects or its being "khamr" it remains halal in my understanding of the faith. The default state of any act is halal. when it is shown to be haram (with valid arguments), only then should its classification be changed.

All you guys attempting to condemn me, I have got news for you. As many other converts can attest to, the strongest condemnations we encounter have been the condemnations by our family and loved ones about our conversion to Islam. You thnk a little paragraph infused with distortions of the truth are going to persuade me to stop thinking for myself? Anyone that weak would never be able to build up the wall they have to build in order to overlook the condemnations from our loved because we converted to Islam.

After I initially converted, I went many years without smoking cannabis. I know how I am with cannabis, and I know how I am without cannabis. So any of you who think I am being influenced by some "addiction" is simply not correct. I made a rational decision about marijuana based on the facts available as well as tons and tons of anecdotal evidence.

Edited by Photi

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The above should be the decisive answer for all actual muslims with at least one working brain cell. My own or anyone else's input is insignificant for a rational believer after reading the above.

I will go head to head with you any day on an IQ test. I have never been lacking in that department. I am comfortably in the 98th or 99th percentile and that is the way it has always been for me ever since grade school. It is quite possible your IQ is higher than mine, but that would be due to genetics and not because i have smoked pot and you haven't.. If marijuana was such a destroyer of brain cells, then, considering my age and how much pot i have smoked over the course of my lifetime, shouldn't I be a little more average in my IQ?

Any damage I may have caused to my self over my life (i didn't convert to Islam until i was 25) from substance use was caused by alcohol. If anything, marijuana compensates for that damage. As I said above, I started adulthood from an unideal place.

A real solution to persuade the youth to not take any detours into the world of substance use would be to teach children from a young age more of the mystical aspects of Islam. If I could meditate like a mystic meditates, I would have no use for cannabis.

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You were high when you wrote that, and I'm sure you were being completely rational in your thought while writing it. Yes, my irrational and extremely stern condemnation of weed, when read by a parent could endanger the child because the dad might shoot him/her or chop their head off if their child gets caught smoking weed. And you're right that that would bring to the mental level of a wahabi. :rolleyes:

Get outta here...

You do realize this is not even an argument. If I am so irrational in my thought you should be able to rationally prove my irrationality without resorting to your own irrationality. If you tell adults who have no knowledge on the subject that a herion addict is quite the same as a marijuana user you will be filling them full of useless information. They will then use that useless information to persuade their children not to smoke pot. Wouldn't the better approach be to definitively prove the haramness of cannabis use by using arguments that actually have some relevance to the actual effects of cannabis use?

The Quran says of khamr and gambling that there is both profit and harm for the humans but that there is more harm so avoid them. Specifically talking about alcohol or gambling, proving their harmful effects is something easy to do. In order to "prove" that the same level of harm is caused by cannabis use, one has to resort to outright lies and other distortions of the truth. If cannabis fell into the same category as alcohol, then why does the proof need to be fabricated?

Since all acts are halal until proven haram, the burden of proof is on the anti-marijuana side of the argument. I have done my due diligence.

Edited by Photi

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anyone that compares Weed to Alchohol doesn't know anything about either off them and should keep their mouth shut on the subject.

One substance(Booze) makes you violent, illogical and is addictive.

The other(Weed) makes you calm, spiritual and is not physically addictive.

Also, here are a list of mind altering things muslims enjoy without asking questions:

Tea

Coffee

Chocolate

Saffron

Cough syrup

Etc...

So I don't know why we must pick on Weed, something so harmless.

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anyone that compares Weed to Alchohol doesn't know anything about either off them and should keep their mouth shut on the subject.

One substance(Booze) makes you violent, illogical and is addictive.

The other(Weed) makes you calm, spiritual and is not physically addictive.

Also, here are a list of mind altering things muslims enjoy without asking questions:

Tea

Coffee

Chocolate

Saffron

Cough syrup

Etc...

So I don't know why we must pick on Weed, something so harmless.

:yaali:

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But what is the basis of considering it haram. Things like pork and alchohol are specifically mentioned as haram but nothing regarding weed.

salam

alcohol is forbidden for its intoxicating effects, as well as its depressive influence on the brain. more importantly, its the actions you do under the influence of alcohol that is what really matters. your not in your right mind, just like the effects of weed. closely related and similar effects, so if alcohol is haram consequently weed is also haram. Allah (SWT) isnt going to list the whole drug index in the quran, he gave us an idea of what we should avoid, and thus we associate similar materials as haram.

furthermore, both alcohol and weed harm the body in the short term and long term, which is another reason for forbiddening them.

although smoking also harms the body yet there is a lot of conflict as to whether its haram or not, just a thought.

side effects of weed for your reference

http://www.drugfree.org/drug-guide/marijuana

p.s. i didnt know hashish and weed were different drugs, i thought they were the same. huh. :huh:

anyway, may Allah enlighten your path, brother!!

salam :D

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(salam)

It is a fact though that for people who already have a history of mental illness in their family, and are already at risk, consuming weed can be a trigger that offsets the mental illness including

schizophrenia and such things. So it really isn't clear cut that it is good or bad as it really does depend on the consumer.

I think that Qur'anic verse does apply

They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. (2:219)

Whilst I do believe there are many benefits to marijuana, lets face it, it can in alot of cases just become a waste of life. So for those who can consume it responsibly and justify it in religious terms, they (if they so wish) should continue smoking it, but perhaps shouldn't present it to everyone as it is for them, as it differs from person to person.

For those who are vehemently against it, you need to calm down as well, because as brother photi pointed out, when kids find out they have being lied to, it can open up a whole can of worms.

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Nice bump to a dead thread and a dead debate. I applaud your satanic persistence in trying to halalify the filthy habit of the use of this filth that turns a man into useless filth.

ShiaBen, Abu Dujana,

I realize you mean well, but you frankly don't seem to know what you're talking about.

You're undermining your case by exaggerated statements.

Care to point out my "exaggerated statements"? And while you're at it, how about you review the other side as well after wading through their swimming pool of sh!tty arguments with no logic or reasoning or religious basis? (I know you won't btw because you're a ....... and honesty in such matters has never been your trait in all these years for very understandable reason).

Now....

I want everyone to think hard. Why would someone try to condemn "another form of tea / coffee / cough syrup" or weed in this case?

What can be my motivation, for instance?

There's no "case" or "undermining" it or a "judgment" of it.

The facts are there, and so are all the bullkrap arguments in favor of it, which for some queer motivation which is or should be apparently beyond me the critiques and "judges" are overlooking altogether.

Anyway... all MUSLIMS who heed the advice of SCHOLARS should stay away from weed, says the respected and renowned Ayatullah Sistani among most other scholars.

Just because some "shias" use it does not make it halal. And it does surprise me to see such people advocating its use, albeit not much. These are the people who have the religion on the lowest priority in their lives. They may be believers at heart, but certainly not among the finer forms of one. We all see such people valuing politics above God, valuing money above God, valuing their friends and relatives above God. God is at the bottom in their list of priorities. They only obey God when its convenient. I'm no angel but at least I can still tell night from day quite well.

Edited by Abu Dujana

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salam

alcohol is forbidden for its intoxicating effects, as well as its depressive influence on the brain. more importantly, its the actions you do under the influence of alcohol that is what really matters. your not in your right mind, just like the effects of weed. closely related and similar effects, so if alcohol is haram consequently weed is also haram. Allah (SWT) isnt going to list the whole drug index in the quran, he gave us an idea of what we should avoid, and thus we associate similar materials as haram.

this is the problem with your side of the argument, you make statements that are not true. the effects are completely unrelated. alcohol has given me many regrets, cannabis has not. my first glimpses into truth were cannabis induced, long before Islam entered my life. the cannabis high gives access to an experience-based knowledge, something esoteric.

i maintain that the best way to influence children so they do not experiment with substance use is to teach the mystical aspects of Islam from an early age. Children should especially be taught how to meditate. I am not exactly sure how to implement this sort of curriculum on a practical level.

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(salam)

Do weed falls into the category of wine/alcoholic drink or cigarettes/hookah?

The reason I am asking is because although both are bad, only one of the acts has an Islamic punishment assigned to it which can be carried out by a government: openly drinking or getting drunk.

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Abu Dujana, I accepted Islam because it is an argument for Truth. Now that I am here, why would I turn on my heels and accept your point of view which is based on half-truths and distortions? If I was so accommodating towards distortions, I would have been much better off if I had chose to live my life according to my secular christian upbringing. Converting to Islam doesn't exactly give one advantages in the Dunya. Ask anyone.

You might be right about cannabis. If you are right, you have not yet found the argument. Keep trying, or don't. Until it is haram, it is halal.

The other opposing point of view is that it is illegal and so therefore haram.

no doubt that is a convincing argument. up until this point cannabis use on my part has been justified on the basis of civil disobedience.

Civil disobedience is an interesting concept. Is anyone aware of an Islamic exploration of the subject? Revolutionary Iran must have fueled a discussion on the matter.

Edited by Photi

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Care to point out my "exaggerated statements"? And while you're at it, how about you review the other side as well after wading through their swimming pool of sh!tty arguments with no logic or reasoning or religious basis? (I know you won't btw because you're a ....... and honesty in such matters has never been your trait in all these years for very understandable reason).

Most of what you have said is either an exaggeration or verifiable falsehood. ShahHussein had an excellent post just above yours that sums up my perspective rather well. There are a lot of hysterical half-truths ("Reefer madness" style stuff) that is circulated that exaggerates the dangers and effects of cannabis.

The problem is a lot of it is not honest. Now this may have worked at one point, when use was less common, and accurate info was less available, but today, whether from the internet or from observing people who use it or using it oneself, it is easy to verify that much of the scare claims are false. The person making the claims may be sincere, and amongst what he is saying may be actual legitimate information, but the lies the person tells mixed in with the truth, when exposed, discredit the person's words in general. That's the problem.

For a more balanced, reality based approach, see my own posts on page 4 and 5 (Posts 93 and 107, I believe).

By the way, although I argued against them (Photi and Frosty) earlier, the other guys did, to be fair, bring a religious argument. Namely, that you don't need to prove something is permissible to allow it, rather, someone has to prove it impermissible to forbid it. There are no early religious texts either way to weigh on cannabis; we have to work from the general principles about muskir substances (reason blockers or "intoxicants (usual, though stupid translation of muskir)") and about avoiding harm. Scholars will typically classify it as a muskir based on verbal descriptions of the experience, but the experience is notoriously difficult to accurately pin down in words.

Can you poison yourself with it? Is it toxic? No. Is it comparable in effects to alcohol? Not really. Does it block reason, making you irrational? Not exactly. It shifts/alters perception and thinking. Does it alter perception or thinking to the level of serious hallucinogens like mushrooms or LSD or Salvia Divinorum? Does it take you to a different reality? No, it's much more subtle and low key than that.

It's a subtle substance, which makes it a legitimately difficult call. Compared to alcohol it's frankly relatively harmless. There are certain people medically/psychiatrically who should definitely avoid it. Abuse in young people can have negative impacts on brain development. But for most it is harmless for casual occasional use, and arguably somewhat helpful. Heavy chronic abuse can have negative impacts though.

It's honestly not a clear-cut case; there are arguments to be made on either side. Arguments for prohibition based on its inherent effects as a reason-blocker/intoxicant on an individual level are somewhat weak. It's not toxic. You can't plausibly OD on normal use. It's not strictly addictive.

Does it have a tendency to make people aggressive, or disinhibited, making them more likely to get into fights or be violent? No. Does it impair motor performance for driving, for example? Unclear, though I wouldn't want a pilot to fly after smoking it. Will it generally impair work performance if the work requires focus and concentration? Admittedly yes, but most people are sensible enough to understand that this is a recreational activity for weekends or afterhours.

Probably a better case can be made from the overall social "more harm than good overall" perspective, but even there a debate can be had.

I side tentatively with the religious prohibition perspective, but it is mostly from a standpoint of precaution rather than being overwhelmingly convinced from an evidence based perspective.

Edited by kadhim

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If you guys are so intent on justifying getting high off weed, then stop posting here and debating about it. Obviously you all aren't worried about it, so go puff it up guys! You don't need us to tell you what to do and what not to do right? Enjoy all you want eh, it's between you and your Lord, and Allah subhanahu wa ta3ala is most Just.

It is like Rasulallah (saw) said, before the advent of our Imam (as), Muslimeen will implement their own ideas on the religion and will pick and choose what they like and don't like and justify haram acts! Just look at this site, is a prime example of the ideas floating around. It is unbelievable.

We will ALL answer to our Rab.

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Well, this is a symptom of the problem of having no imam to directly address, and to directly teach us, openly. We miss the explicit teachings of the imams on these sorts of matters, and therefore need to do our best on our own to figure it out.

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Go right ahead. But take it to a hardcore akhbari forum imho. We have scholars' opinions and we'll take that over your BBC style arbitrary rubbish speculation any day. You're all constantly preaching its "virtues" to lure unsuspecting people in.

When you say I have no clue about this enemy of man then you are very sadly mistaken. My country, Pakistan, is the home and obscene cesspool of narcotics. No sh!t Sherlock you don't want your airplane pilot stoned after smoking it before takeoff or landing. There are regular brutal truck accidents here because 90% truck drivers are Pathans and 90% of them are stoned or high on weed 24/7 while driving throughout the country.

Your reason reminds me of this antagonist from a movie who, after being found addicted to Morphine says: "You have a little caffeine in the morning and I have morphine, so what." I know whats up with you all but perhaps you shouldn't expose your true selves to everyone else here. Or maybe you've lost such sensibility to weed?

- We have scholars. The imams never even touched this stuff. Nor did any prophet ever smoke it. Guess why. The scholars have even declared smoking tobacco as haram if you aren't already addicted to nicotine. Caffeine in tea and coffee is not as addictive but it doesn't get you high either. It's not an intoxicant. While weed most certainly is. And, hello, we're not advocating the use of any of those either. So why grasp at that straw?

- Imam Ali (as) is reported to have refused a perfectly halal milk product dish of subcontinent origin (falooda) and replying: "I know of each thing the Prophet (pbuh) ever ate or drank in his life and this is not among them. I am sorry but I do not eat something he never did". Islam is not as complicated as you try to make it out to be. It's very simple in fact, just like the above example. It gives us a general rule to stay away from borderline or suspicious thing and avoid them or one can go astray.

- Pray tell, what notable figures have used or are using weed to benefit from its wondrous gifts? Bob Marley? Someone in Pearl Jam? Did Bill Gates use it when he invented Windows? Did Eisenhower use it when he nuked Japan? Who uses or has used it to "augment" and strengthen their otherwise lesser natural God-gifted abilities? I am sorry but I'd rather not be a low life sweeper who doesn't mind living in a gutter.

- Nothing good ever came out of this. The vague "spiritual crutch" it offers is completely unnecessary. If God intended people to smoke it in order to find Him He would have written so in His book. So enough of that.

Edited by Abu Dujana

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Abu Dujana,

You sure you didn't take something before you wrote that post? You're completely incoherent.

I'm not promoting marijuana use here. I'm pointing out that you're doing a bad job in arguing against it.

If you want to continue to do a bad job, by all means, please ignore my advice and continue doing exactly what you are doing.

Imam Ali is reported to have refused a perfectly halal milk product dish of subcontinent origin (falooda) and replying: "I know of each thing the Prophet ever ate or drank in his life and this is not among them. I am sorry but I do not eat something he never did". Islam is not as complicated as you try to make it out to be. It's very simple in fact, just like the above example. It gives us a general rule to stay away from borderline or suspicious thing and avoid them or one can go astray.

This is overkill as a general principle, and in fact our religion generally teaches the opposite approach of acceptable until proven unacceptable.

That said, I fail to see how you read anything different in my statement advocating avoiding marijuana as a matter of precaution.

Edited by kadhim

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Go right ahead. But take it to a hardcore akhbari forum imho. We have scholars' opinions and we'll take that over your BBC style arbitrary rubbish speculation any day. You're all constantly preaching its "virtues" to lure unsuspecting people in.

When you say I have no clue about this enemy of man then you are very sadly mistaken. My country, Pakistan, is the home and obscene cesspool of narcotics. No sh!t Sherlock you don't want your airplane pilot stoned after smoking it before takeoff or landing. There are regular brutal truck accidents here because 90% truck drivers are Pathans and 90% of them are stoned or high on weed 24/7 while driving throughout the country.

Your reason reminds me of this antagonist from a movie who, after being found addicted to Morphine says: "You have a little caffeine in the morning and I have morphine, so what." I know whats up with you all but perhaps you shouldn't expose your true selves to everyone else here. Or maybe you've lost such sensibility to weed?

- We have scholars. The imams never even touched this stuff. Nor did any prophet ever smoke it. Guess why. The scholars have even declared smoking tobacco as haram if you aren't already addicted to nicotine. Caffeine in tea and coffee is not as addictive but it doesn't get you high either. It's not an intoxicant. While weed most certainly is. And, hello, we're not advocating the use of any of those either. So why grasp at that straw?

- Imam Ali (as) is reported to have refused a perfectly halal milk product dish of subcontinent origin (falooda) and replying: "I know of each thing the Prophet (pbuh) ever ate or drank in his life and this is not among them. I am sorry but I do not eat something he never did". Islam is not as complicated as you try to make it out to be. It's very simple in fact, just like the above example. It gives us a general rule to stay away from borderline or suspicious thing and avoid them or one can go astray.

- Pray tell, what notable figures have used or are using weed to benefit from its wondrous gifts? Bob Marley? Someone in Pearl Jam? Did Bill Gates use it when he invented Windows? Did Eisenhower use it when he nuked Japan? Who uses or has used it to "augment" and strengthen their otherwise lesser natural God-gifted abilities? I am sorry but I'd rather not be a low life sweeper who doesn't mind living in a gutter.

- Nothing good ever came out of this. The vague "spiritual crutch" it offers is completely unnecessary. If God intended people to smoke it in order to find Him He would have written so in His book. So enough of that.

Very well said.

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I'm not promoting marijuana use here. I'm pointing out that you're doing a bad job in arguing against it.

You know what? Deal with it.

Oh, and thanks for going out of the way to care for the well being of my outlook to the public. Personally, I've never given a damn. But thanks anyway. ^^

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Well, this is a symptom of the problem of having no imam to directly address, and to directly teach us, openly. We miss the explicit teachings of the imams on these sorts of matters, and therefore need to do our best on our own to figure it out.

Huh?

I think this issue is pretty cut and dry.

Just because something is new doesn't mean that Islam's ruling on it is ambiguous. The immortal principles of Islam can continue to guide us (very definitively and clearly) even in a world with a million new tools of deviation.

íóÓúÃóáõæäóßó Úóäö ÇáúÎóãúÑö æóÇáúãóíúÓöÑö Þõáú ÝöíåöãóÇ ÅöËúãñ ßóÈöíÑñ æóãóäóÇÝöÚõ áöáäøóÇÓö æóÅöËúãõåõãó ÃóßúÈóÑõ ãöä äøóÝúÚöåöãóÇ æóíóÓúÃóáõæäóßó ãóÇÐóÇ íõäÝöÞõæäó Þõáö ÇáúÚóÝúæó ßóÐóáößó íõÈíøöäõ Çááøåõ áóßõãõ ÇáÂíóÇÊö áóÚóáøóßõãú ÊóÊóÝóßøóÑõæäó

Sahih International

"They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, 'In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit.' And they ask you what they should spend. Say, 'The excess [beyond needs].' Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses [of revelation] that you might give thought." (Surah al-Baqara [2]: 219).

A lot of folks have said in this thread that weed has benefits. Well, any possible benefits it brings cannot outweigh the great detriment inherent in it (which is at least AS well documented as that of alcohol).

The parallel I always like to draw is internet pornography.

During the Prophet's mission, there was neither internet, nor was there pornography (at least, not in its current day form). There are no ayahs or hadiths where we see any talk about internet porn being forbidden. And yet, not a single one of you would try to argue that this is acceptable in Islam. Why not? Because this is clear. The immortal principles established by Islam clearly prohibit such a thing as internet pornography.

If we can pass clear judgement on that, then why can't we do that on weed?

Weed is parallel to alcohol. Alcohol is clearly haraam (as per explicit ayah posted above). Ayah establishes principle as to why alcohol is haraam. Apply that to weed, and you're done.

HARAAM!!! *wags finger at Photi and other weed heads on this thread*

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You know what? Deal with it.

Oh, and thanks for going out of the way to care for the well being of my outlook to the public. Personally, I've never given a damn. But thanks anyway. ^^

Doesn't have anything to do with you. I could care less, frankly, about your public outlook.

Problem is that you do a disservice to a point of view by presenting it poorly, justifying it with half-truths, etc.

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Huh?

I think this issue is pretty cut and dry.

Just because something is new doesn't mean that Islam's ruling on it is ambiguous. The immortal principles of Islam can continue to guide us (very definitively and clearly) even in a world with a million new tools of deviation.

íóÓúÃóáõæäóßó Úóäö ÇáúÎóãúÑö æóÇáúãóíúÓöÑö Þõáú ÝöíåöãóÇ ÅöËúãñ ßóÈöíÑñ æóãóäóÇÝöÚõ áöáäøóÇÓö æóÅöËúãõåõãó ÃóßúÈóÑõ ãöä äøóÝúÚöåöãóÇ æóíóÓúÃóáõæäóßó ãóÇÐóÇ íõäÝöÞõæäó Þõáö ÇáúÚóÝúæó ßóÐóáößó íõÈíøöäõ Çááøåõ áóßõãõ ÇáÂíóÇÊö áóÚóáøóßõãú ÊóÊóÝóßøóÑõæäó

Sahih International

"They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, 'In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit.' And they ask you what they should spend. Say, 'The excess [beyond needs].' Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses [of revelation] that you might give thought." (Surah al-Baqara [2]: 219).

A lot of folks have said in this thread that weed has benefits. Well, any possible benefits it brings cannot outweigh the great detriment inherent in it (which is at least AS well documented as that of alcohol).

The parallel I always like to draw is internet pornography.

During the Prophet's mission, there was neither internet, nor was there pornography (at least, not in its current day form). There are no ayahs or hadiths where we see any talk about internet porn being forbidden. And yet, not a single one of you would try to argue that this is acceptable in Islam. Why not? Because this is clear. The immortal principles established by Islam clearly prohibit such a thing as internet pornography.

If we can pass clear judgement on that, then why can't we do that on weed?

Weed is parallel to alcohol. Alcohol is clearly haraam (as per explicit ayah posted above). Ayah establishes principle as to why alcohol is haraam. Apply that to weed, and you're done.

HARAAM!!! *wags finger at Photi and other weed heads on this thread*

It's not so cut and dry, though. That's the problem. Yeah, everyone knows about Islamic principles about reason-blocking substances, and accepts that something that fits that category has an Islamic prohibition.

Photi explicitly accepted that earlier in the thread, mentioning a few examples of things he easily accepts as prohibited on that basis, including alcohol, cocaine, and heroin.

Problem is that marijuana is a more subtle substance in its effects in normal doses. Alcohol is a bad comparison because marijuana doesn't really affect the mind in the same way. Alcohol is like hitting a finely tuned machine with a sledgehammer. Marijuana is like turning some of the knobs to subtly change the tuning.

A case can be made to consider it an intoxicant, and a case can be made that it's harmless for most people as they normally use it. For some minority predisposed to mental illness, it is dangerous. For teenagers it is generally not a good idea. Some minority get into chronic use, with some portion of these people basically just becoming "stoners" that basically do nothing productive with their lives. (Though arguably those people would probably end up doing nothing regardless)

The question is whether it is legitimate to forbid it for everyone because of the ill effects on the minority?

Maybe. I lean that way as a matter of precaution, but like I said, I have to admit that it's honestly pretty harmless for most people if it's used in moderation.

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I thought Shahussain's and kadhim's statements were pretty well balanced.

The prohibition on cigarettes usually says something to the effect of it being haram but if one has already started then he should try to quit. I will approach cannabis the same way. I started smoking pot long before Islam entered my life. It is difficult to stop now, not because it is addictive, but because cannabis activates a part of my personality that i do not have access to otherwise. That part of my personality is more wise than my non-cannabis personality. Maybe the ideal is to develop that inner voice of light without resorting to external aids and substances, but for many people things happened differently for whatever reasons. I cannot exactly go back and change things the way they happened. To never smoke pot again would be like to never be in touch with that inner voice of reason. i would not be complete.

Iran has a sizable heroin/opiate problem, doesn't it? Especially near the Afghan borders? Cannabis is not an;y sort of cure-all for heroin users, but it can make rehabilitation of recovering heroin addicts have an easier time in doing so. I never hung out with the heroin crowd so i have limited experience, but I did drive taxi in Seattle for a couple of years and part of my job included the transport of recovering addicts to and from the methadone clinics. Based on conversations with these people, for some cannabis has been essential to their recovery. If i were a government, i would much rather see the citizens have a cannabis "problem" than I would like to see them have a heroin problem.

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It is difficult to stop now, not because it is addictive, but because cannabis activates a part of my personality that i do not have access to otherwise. That part of my personality is more wise than my non-cannabis personality.

I always found it rather earthy and feminine. Changed the filters a bit so that different sorts of things in the environment came to conscious attention and caught my eye than would normally. Curious plant.

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Wow mate Idk what you were thinking before you opened this topic but weed is a drug and a NARCOTIC which makes it haram, there is no explanations needed.

thats like asking

Why is alcohol so bad? Why is pork so bad? Why is music so bad?

And you cant say oh, one is worse then the other and some have benefits, NO. Haram, plain and simple

Even smoking tobacco is haram and if one is in the middle of the process then they should try to quit as soon as possible because of its harmful effects.

May Allah swt guide you .......

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See the thing is that these people think if the Muslims they know or even the clerics they know drink, eat pork, smoke marijuana, smoke cigarettes, or do anything else of such nature, it is "halal" because "so and so does it, therefore it can't be haram because so and so is a Muslim!!!".

They just want to have an excuse to do something.

I like what Russian speaking Muslims and Muslims from Eastern Europe say.

They admit that drinking is haram, but say they do it for cultural reasons, and that by no means do they call it makruh just because they do it. They admit that it is haram despite doing it. At least we can admit these people are honest, even if they hurt themselves.

But these people on this forum are so arrogant and blind, they don't even want to admit what they are doing is wrong (sin).

Drugs, alcohol, pork, or anything else should be used for medical or actual situations where it isn't "haram" in nature.

I'm sure tomorrow some moron will say "I cut myself and bleed awhile to get dizzy and high, it's not in the Quran or current hadiths or any ayas at all, so it is automatically permissible!!!"

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Smoking weed actually helps concentration - my salaah is less robotic and more meaningful when i am high. But then, maybe i am just lucky because it has that effect on me. I know other people who just get hungry and act stupid when they are under the influence of tht stuff, and then some people use it for medical purposes.Allah has blessed us with this natural medicine, so i do think it is wrong for people to say that it is completely haraam regardless of how much, how often, and why it is being smoked.So i think you gotta use your common sense, u know the effect it has on you...so only you can decide if it is haraam for you and for the reasons that you will be using it for. :)

+55 for your sarcasm and great sense of humor, im assuming your kidding, otherwise i think you should research before doing stuff you dont know about, here is a copy paste from a website (CLICK HERE) regarding the effects of Marijuana (akka weed):

What are its short-term effects?

Short-term effects of marijuana include problems with memory and learning, distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch), trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor coordination, increased heart rate, and anxiety. These effects are even greater when other drugs are mixed with weed. A user may also experience dry mouth and throat.

What are its long-term effects?

Marijuana smoke contains some of the same cancer-causing compounds as tobacco, sometimes in higher concentrations. Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.

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See the thing is that these people think if the Muslims they know or even the clerics they know drink, eat pork, smoke marijuana, smoke cigarettes, or do anything else of such nature, it is "halal" because "so and so does it, therefore it can't be haram because so and so is a Muslim!!!".

They just want to have an excuse to do something.

I like what Russian speaking Muslims and Muslims from Eastern Europe say.

They admit that drinking is haram, but say they do it for cultural reasons, and that by no means do they call it makruh just because they do it. They admit that it is haram despite doing it. At least we can admit these people are honest, even if they hurt themselves.

But these people on this forum are so arrogant and blind, they don't even want to admit what they are doing is wrong (sin).

Drugs, alcohol, pork, or anything else should be used for medical or actual situations where it isn't "haram" in nature.

I'm sure tomorrow some moron will say "I cut myself and bleed awhile to get dizzy and high, it's not in the Quran or current hadiths or any ayas at all, so it is automatically permissible!!!"

Don't be stupid. That's not where they are coming from at all, and you know that quite well.

I don't understand some of you people. You want to browbeat people about Islamic ethics, but you're willing to pull the most despicable distortions to try to win the day. Worse than Christian missionaries.

Just argue with honesty. Is it so hard? Give truthful, evidence based arguments and don't mischaracterize what your opponent is saying. It's easy. If you don't have any real knowledge, just say, "listen, I don't know a lot about this, and I don't really have any hard facts, but my gut says that getting high just doesn't jive with general Islamic values, whatever the exact arguments against it may be."

Edited by kadhim

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Addendum to previous comments summarizing case for and against marijuana.

Caveat on the research indicating that marijuana can precipitate psychosis in the vulnerable predisposed. This argument is more toward the heavily bred marijuana of today in Europe and North America rather than natural strains. Natural marijuana contains two known active ingredients:

1. Tetrahydrocannibinol (the infamous THC) - responsible for "brainy" cognitive-perceptive effects

2. Cannabidiol - responsible for warm fuzzy sleepy body effects

Breeding has been directed toward upping the mentally interesting THC. However, there is a sort of zero sum game in the plant in chemical production. There is only so much biological energy, so more of one production leads to less of another. More THC means less cannabidiol. Cannabidiol has been almost eliminated from some modern designer strains.

Unfortunately, THC is the chemical that is connected to precipitating psychosis in the vulnerable.

The interesting thing, however, is that cannabidiol is actually showing promise in research as an anti-psychotic! The natural plant therefore contains the cure within it, so to speak.

Unfortunately, however, this is largely academic to the current discussion, as most cannabis widely available is high THC, low cannabidiol.

(As an aside, one argument for the idea of government legalization combined with heavy regulation is that with the substance off the black market, the government could impose a more balanced chemical profile on commercially sold product in the interest of public safety.)

Some additional arguments against cannabis use:

1. There is the Islamic principle that it is wajib to follow the law of the land. Since marijuana is illegal in most jurisdictions (for the moment; the trends are toward legalization in Western countries), this implies that it is haram to posess and use in such jurisdictions.

2. Unless you grow your own or get from someone who does, there is a high probability that the product came to you through organized crime. In addition, large scale drug trafficking has been shown to be a major source of funding for terrorism globally. Obviously supporting such enterprise is haram.

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