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AliSaleh

why is smoking weed so bad?

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Holy poop man. I didn't say it was accepted by Islam [in that comment]. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? I said that it is a growing issue in society that affects many, many Muslims so it should definitely be discussed in forums!

:dry:

You're a young sister, so I don't want to be a jerk here, but in your earlier post you implied that you regretted not smoking weed in high school.

From this I gathered that you must view it to be acceptable in Islam. (Nobody regrets not doing something that they know is a sin).

I think young Muslims shouldn't become close friends with non-Muslims unless they have the will-strength to not accept everything they do and say.

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LOL omg what has happened to this forum these days. I got banned for saying something like that a while ago. But yeah, I sort of disagree with what you define as a "high state".

You can't get banned for expressing your opinion, and it is not like i am insulting anybody.

and that is not my definition of the high state it is what other who have never done weed define as the high state. and I remember an other comment a while ago that said people try to make weed sound so bad because they claim that marijuana has the same affects as some stronger drugs like Crystal Meth. but the true fact is that marijuana's effects are very long term and not life threatening.

I already proved evidence in my posts above. I showed how marijuana "affects" (influences) or more like can possibly even "effect" (change completely) the way the frontal cortex works (executive functions and movement) and how this can lead to dangerous events or situations (such as driving under the influence of marijuana and hitting cars or people because your distance perception is off by a a certain level).

as opposed to other drugs, when you are high you are able to think and understand, so you would know where you are, where your going, and what your doing. I know you get tunnel vision but that's when your looking very far, so it dosen't affect you when you are driving because when a car is, close you are able to determine the distance between you and the car. my friend always drives when he is high and he drives normally.

Please don't make assumptions of the effects of marijuana when you have never done it before.

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You can't get banned for expressing your opinion, and it is not like i am insulting anybody.

and that is not my definition of the high state it is what other who have never done weed define as the high state. and I remember an other comment a while ago that said people try to make weed sound so bad because they claim that marijuana has the same affects as some stronger drugs like Crystal Meth. but the true fact is that marijuana's effects are very long term and not life threatening.

as opposed to other drugs, when you are high you are able to think and understand, so you would know where you are, where your going, and what your doing. I know you get tunnel vision but that's when your looking very far, so it dosen't affect you when you are driving because when a car is, close you are able to determine the distance between you and the car. my friend always drives when he is high and he drives normally.

Please don't make assumptions of the effects of marijuana when you have never done it before.

What your saying doesn't make sense.

There are fire fighters who suffered from 2nd hand smoke of marijuana fumes, and in those videos, you can tell that they are greatly intoxicated and can't even communicate their thoughts in a straight manner.

As for cars, if what you're saying is true, why are there thousands of people every year in the U.S. who are arrested for DUI under the influence of marijuana?? Why do they hit cars when they've smoked before they are driving??? Is this coincidental that they happened to be smoking marijuana and it was just the matter of them being a bad driver??

Just because something doesn't affect you don't mean it doesn't affect other people in the same manner.

Hallucinogens and drugs and chemicals in general are known to have a variety of effects on different people. You can't generalize what works for you for others. This is why drugs are unpredictable and looked down upon.

Haram is haram, you can choose to be blind, but that's your problem. If carcinogens (cancer causing agents) are not haram to the body, then I'm not sure what is.

The man in this video says "if impaired" which implies that marijuana and other substances can affect driving.

http://detnews.com/article/20101203/METRO/12030423/Marijuana-found-in-driver-of-Prius-in-fatal-U.S.-23-crash

The only problem with marijuana related DUI's is that unlike alcohol they haven't developed some kind of limit that says how much marijuana you can smoke when driving, since it is strictly illegal.

Edited by ShiaBen

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You're a young sister, so I don't want to be a jerk here, but in your earlier post you implied that you regretted not smoking weed in high school.

From this I gathered that you must view it to be acceptable in Islam. (Nobody regrets not doing something that they know is a sin).

I think young Muslims shouldn't become close friends with non-Muslims unless they have the will-strength to not accept everything they do and say.

I also stated clearly that I am not sure if it is haram. This is a repetition cycle rather than a debate.

I regretted not smoking weed BECAUSE of all the stress that I went through this year. It wasn't just social pressure, I had personal problems and I'm not about to share anything about that over here either. You seriously think it's the non-Muslims who are the only ones that smoke weed or sin? I was offered pot by a Muslim, so it's not just 'non-Muslims' that place pressure on other teens.

I feel that hanging around with the Muslims in my area is a hard thing to do. They can be so judgmental, but this is a different topic altogether.

I'm tired of this post, I'm going to agree to disagree. :)

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I also stated clearly that I am not sure if it is haram. This is a repetition cycle rather than a debate.

I regretted not smoking weed BECAUSE of all the stress that I went through this year. It wasn't just social pressure, I had personal problems and I'm not about to share anything about that over here either.

If you're not sure if it is haraam, and you regret not having done it, then you have effectively declared it as halal.

And stress does not justify weed use any more than it justifies alcohol use. (Remember that most Westerners drink alcohol "to let off steam.")

There are much better ways to relieve stress. Exercise, for example, is one way of doing this.

You seriously think it's the non-Muslims who are the only ones that smoke weed or sin? I was offered pot by a Muslim, so it's not just 'non-Muslims' that place pressure on other teens.

Then go back to my post and replace 'non-Muslims' with 'bad Muslims.' The same principle applies.

I feel that hanging around with the Muslims in my area is a hard thing to do. They can be so judgmental, but this is a different topic altogether.

If they are judgmental toward people who use weed, they're right.

I'm tired of this post, I'm going to agree to disagree. :)

There is no room for debate here. Weed is a narcotic. Narcotics are haraam. If we are to say that there is doubt about whether or not weed is haraam, why not do the same for PCP? I mean, PCP didn't exist during the time of the revelation. People didn't know what PCP was. PCP came very recently. Is it halal because there is no ayah that says: "Allah enjoins you to reject PCP" ??

The fact that it 'relieves stress' is hardly a good enough excuse.

I am worried for our young brothers and sisters in maghreb zamin.

Edited by baradar_jackson

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To you people who do smoke weed, where do you get it from? What I mean is that weed is illegal therefore you must have brought it illegally from a drug dealer.... I was actually speaking to a guy in my class who used to smoke weed and he said it had a bad effect on him. If people want to combat stress due to studies or whatever then read some Quran and memorise ayas as that will tremendously help you with your studies. Thousands of people are stressed all over the globe, does that mean everyone should resort to smoking weed? No! I was reading some of the posts here and someone said that eating junk food excessively is also bad for you so it should be haram and they're right. It is haram to over excessively eat junk food and smoking weed is also haram. You don't need to be a genius to figure that one out!

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To you people who do smoke weed, where do you get it from? What I mean is that weed is illegal therefore you must have brought it illegally from a drug dealer.... I was actually speaking to a guy in my class who used to smoke weed and he said it had a bad effect on him. If people want to combat stress due to studies or whatever then read some Quran and memorise ayas as that will tremendously help you with your studies. Thousands of people are stressed all over the globe, does that mean everyone should resort to smoking weed? No! I was reading some of the posts here and someone said that eating junk food excessively is also bad for you so it should be haram and they're right. It is haram to over excessively eat junk food and smoking weed is also haram. You don't need to be a genius to figure that one out!

Sister, from my knowledge, they get it from either drug dealers, medical vendors (using licenses), or by growing it themselves.

And as for your statement, these people don't care sister. They just want the easy way out of everything. For example, they could be doing homework, working, reading books, exercising, or learning new knowledge or skills to keep themselves busy. But instead they want instant relief or pleasure, so they fulfill it through drugs. Sad, but that's the reality, and they will make false justifications to make it appear as though the act is not haram.

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A friend of mine actually did a research about cannabis. It's way much healthier than tobacco and shisha.

I didn't know it makes you intoxicated, some doctors say it can make you really focus on something.

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http://drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis

there are effects on health, brain, perception, etc.. If these are not candidates for "haram", than drinking a small glass of wine a day is perfectly normal. It doesn't make you drunk, and people actually believe its "good for you". But then again we worship Allah, not Shaytan. Don't fall for how things appear to be. Why was the apple Adam (as) ate wrong? Obviously apples have no health issues on our bodies, but Allah wants to be worshiped HIS way, not yours.

Like I said before, and I will say again, I could CARE less, I'm just doing my duty. And if the west thinks we are closed-minded for this, then be it. They also think we're closed minded for not accepting homosexuality. The ideas of the Westerns bear no significance to us, whatsoever.

There are also a million muslims who commit adultery, so that's really no proof of anything.

"It looks to you like it's good to not smoke weed, when it's actually healthy for you! Except that's not the argument I'm making right now."

LOL, okay.

I could just as easily find a bunch of websites which outline the benefits of marijuana. Plus, most those cons which are listed are actually not true from my personal experience of blazing over 500 times in my life. HOWEVER, you brought up a great point

Don't fall for how things appear to be. Why was the apple Adam (as) ate wrong?

I've been thinking lately and I noticed that the internet isn't reliable at all. What I am going to do is ask a sheikh if marijuana itself (not the "intoxicants"). Specifically if marijuana is haram. If he says yes, then I'm done arguing. Because you're right, if I wanna look at scientific proof then I might as well drink a little wine everyday.

Science and religion don't combine. If I truly believe in Islam then I should take Sistani's word and accept that weed is haram. Plus, Science hasn't developed to the fullest. God probably knows something more than we do which is why even a small amount of red wine per day is haram. This is why I'm going to ask a representative of Ayatollah Sistani if marijuana is haram and that will be my conclusion. I was talking to a doctor from my university about it and he said that it's dangerous to try to prove that weed should be halal from a scientific point of view since it's like trying to take physics and study it in a biology lab. It just doesn't mix; some things may be the same but others will not get along at all. I'll keep you guys up to date when I find out the answer ;)

Sister, from my knowledge, they get it from either drug dealers, medical vendors (using licenses), or by growing it themselves.

And as for your statement, these people don't care sister. They just want the easy way out of everything. For example, they could be doing homework, working, reading books, exercising, or learning new knowledge or skills to keep themselves busy. But instead they want instant relief or pleasure, so they fulfill it through drugs. Sad, but that's the reality, and they will make false justifications to make it appear as though the act is not haram.

Even though I have a feeling that weed might actually be haram, this guy is still really stupid.

All the justifications we were making were 100% legit and smoking weed takes like 5 mins. You can still do h.w., read, etc. afterwards....

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I've been thinking lately and I noticed that the internet isn't reliable at all. What I am going to do is ask a sheikh if marijuana itself (not the "intoxicants"). Specifically if marijuana is haram. If he says yes, then I'm done arguing.

I don't see why a random Sheikh would be more help to you than Sistani, but whatever makes you happy.

Also you said that you can bring me benefits of marijuana, well any intoxicant has benefits and negative side effects simultaneously, the Quran says just that:

(2:219) They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit."

Although just to make a comment, the translation is not 100 % right, the word used for "wine" is "khamr" in arabic. It comes from "khimar" which means something that hinders/changes your perception. So narcotics are part of that verse too. (this was the first verse that Allah sent concerning intoxicants). As you can see it says they have good, and bad, but altogether the sin is larger than the profit.

(5:90-91) O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper. Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?

These were the 2 last verses revealed about "khamr" (intoxicants). They keep for from prayer AND Allah apparently from the Quran. then Allah says "will ye not then abstain?" Obviously Allah isn't asking us if we will or not, its a rhetoric question telling us to stay away.

Science and religion don't combine.

I disagree. They completely combine. Many scientific "facts" were different for years, then discovered to be different. The different scientific fact would be the one mentioned in the Quran. Allah created science, so His book would obviously include. Just search for Science in the Quran. Some Japanese use the Quran to discover/test things.

In Fact, it talked more about embryology than about prayer.

Anyways, good luck (or not luck since u dont believe in it), I guess bil-tawfeeq with your journey.

(wasalam)

Edited by suus

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Keep a slightly more open mind and you may sound like less of an idiot.

A messed up psycho thinking I'm an idiot, I would take that as a compliment, but it's too trivial a thing to feel flattered.

On topic:

No doctor will ever recommend marijuana. Or was the poster on this page referring to witch doctors / shamans? It is a psychedelic drug which is harmful to anyone's mental health beyond a shadow of doubt. It's effects vary greatly from person to person varying from harmful to extremely harmful. Google is your friend. Why would anyone need it for "concentration" unless they're already addicted to it or suffering from some sort of inferiority complex, another psychiatric condition. It is a poison for the brain and inflicts nearly irreversible harmful changes. It's also bad for your body.

It has no place in our religion, society or life. It has no positive use, only self destructive ones. Not to mention that it's also a waste of money. If you don't agree, let's see how everyone else around you in real life would say about using marijuana unless you smoke it secretly. Let's see the younglings smoke that stuff in front of their parents or teachers. Think they'll approve? Think your wife or husband would approve? See how people treat junkies when they smoke it in public, spreading that stench.

Honestly, there is nothing to be "open minded" about this filth. IMO an individual is a lot better off if they instead get into the habit of drawing a line rather than being "open minded" about reckless and satanical snares and ideas about disgusting activities like this one. This is a religious forum and we have morals. If anyone thinks it is allowed in Islam, let them produce a popular fatwa of its recommendation here. On the contrary, it is actually a forbidden, vile and sinful practice.

If it were any good in the least then there would be examples of famous people using it. And no, the likes of Boy George and similar modern garbage that has made it into the hall of fame of today's perverted standards do not count. Not to me at least. No one in their right minds can (or have, so far in this thread) recommend or approve of using marijuana.

Edited by Abu Dujana

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Abu Dujana, you clearly have about zero knowledge on the subject of marijuana. since when in Islam are we allowed to speak without knowledge? I was involved in this thread early on in the pages. Each anti-marijuana point, including the religious arguments, but also including the social and scientific arguments, have been addressed in the first several pages of this thread. I don't really have anything to add.

Before i converted to Islam, I had experience with alcohol and I had experience with marijuana. They do not belong in the same category.

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Brother, this is an edit to my earlier post . It is not that you have no knowledge on the subject, it is just that you bring a value judgment prior to laying out all the facts. This has the effect of giving only one perspective on the argument instead of looking at the issue from a multi-dimensional perspective.

In my opinion, the proper approach should be an ordered, staged approach. You first lay out the objective science, and then in a separate section (perhaps your conclusion), you present your value judgment. This way, the topic is open to everyone regardless of beliefs.

Note: I am not saying you should not formulate an Islamic valuation on the matter. I am only saying the science and the valuation belong in different sections of your argument.

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Impaired judgment and motor coordination / Shortened attention span and distractibility / Anxiety and panic attacks /Increased heart rate / Increased risk of heart attack / Increased risk for schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals / Impaired judgment / Problems with memory and learning / Lowered motivation / Decreased alertness and coordination / Addiction / Withdrawal symptoms from stopping drug use (in a chronic user): irritability, sleeplessness, anxiety, impaired appetite, and aggression.

Sounds like fun XD

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Impaired judgment and motor coordination / Shortened attention span and distractibility / Anxiety and panic attacks /Increased heart rate / Increased risk of heart attack / Increased risk for schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals / Impaired judgment / Problems with memory and learning / Lowered motivation / Decreased alertness and coordination / Addiction / Withdrawal symptoms from stopping drug use (in a chronic user): irritability, sleeplessness, anxiety, impaired appetite, and aggression.

Sounds like fun XD

What are you describing, the effects of caffeine overuse?

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What are you describing, the effects of caffeine overuse?

Caffeine leads to impaired judgement and motor functions?? LOL. You truly are ignorant.

Memory problems- haven't heard of a stimulant like caffeine affecting this, otherwise you wouldn't have many students and people drinking coffee if it would affect their memory

Impaired appetite- marijuana makes you very hungry, caffeine has the opposite effect.

Increased risk for schizophrenia????- Caffeine definitely does not lead to this, unless you can prove otherwise.

A person such as yourself that claims to have drank and smoked, I can't take any of your responses seriously since you've justified haram acts in the past.

Edited by ShiaBen

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Caffeine leads to impaired judgement and motor functions?? LOL. You truly are ignorant.

Memory problems- haven't heard of a stimulant like caffeine affecting this, otherwise you wouldn't have many students and people drinking coffee if it would affect their memory

Impaired appetite- marijuana makes you very hungry, caffeine has the opposite effect.

Increased risk for schizophrenia????- Caffeine definitely does not lead to this, unless you can prove otherwise.

A person such as yourself that claims to have drank and smoked, I can't take any of your responses seriously since you've justified haram acts in the past.

All nations will receive a Prophet from God. Muhammad (a) is the Seal and the Best of all the Prophets. No Prophet will be on Earth again until the return of Jesus (a). Therefore, the nations who came after Muhammad will receive Muhammad as their Prophet. If there is anything determinate in history it is that Islam will one day be the majority religion.

When the mass conversion of the new nations happens, the converts will have much bigger problems than marijuana use. Speaking from personal experience, marijuana has been beneficially instrumental in my conversion process. Its medicinal effects are well known and have been discussed in the initial pages of this thread.

Marijuana use may not be ideal, but many of us begin adulthood from an unideal place.

Caffeine Intoxication:

An acute overdose of caffeine is usually in excess of about 300 milligrams, dependent on body weight and level of caffeine tolerance, can result in a state of central nervous system over-stimulation called caffeine intoxication (DSM-IV 305.90),[107] or colloquially the "caffeine jitters". The symptoms of caffeine intoxication are not unlike overdoses of other stimulants. It may include restlessness, fidgetiness, nervousness, excitement, euphoria, insomnia, flushing of the face, increased urination, gastrointestinal disturbance, muscle twitching, a rambling flow of thought and speech, irritability, irregular or rapid heart beat, and psychomotor agitation.[104] In cases of much larger overdoses, mania, depression, lapses in judgment, disorientation, disinhibition, delusions, hallucinations, and psychosis may occur, and rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of skeletal muscle tissue) can be provoked.[108][109]

Extreme overdose can result in death.[110] The median lethal dose (LD50) given orally, is 192 milligrams per kilogram in rats.[3] The LD50 of caffeine in humans is dependent on weight and individual sensitivity and estimated to be about 150 to 200 milligrams per kilogram of body mass, roughly 80 to 100 cups of coffee for an average adult taken within a limited time frame that is dependent on half-life. Though achieving lethal dose with caffeine would be exceptionally difficult with regular coffee, there have been reported deaths from overdosing on caffeine pills, with serious symptoms of overdose requiring hospitalization occurring from as little as 2 grams of caffeine. An exception to this would be taking a drug such as fluvoxamine or levofloxacin, which block the liver enzyme responsible for the metabolism of caffeine, thus increasing the central effects and blood concentrations of caffeine dramatically at 5-fold. It is not contraindicated, but highly advisable to minimize the intake of caffeinated beverages, as drinking one cup of coffee will have the same effect as drinking five under normal conditions.[111][112][113][114] Death typically occurs due to ventricular fibrillation brought about by effects of caffeine on the cardiovascular system.

Treatment of severe caffeine intoxication is generally supportive, providing treatment of the immediate symptoms, but if the patient has very high serum levels of caffeine then peritoneal dialysis, hemodialysis, or hemofiltration may be required.

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Impaired judgment and motor coordination / Shortened attention span and distractibility / Anxiety and panic attacks /Increased heart rate / Increased risk of heart attack / Increased risk for schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals / Impaired judgment / Problems with memory and learning / Lowered motivation / Decreased alertness and coordination / Addiction / Withdrawal symptoms from stopping drug use (in a chronic user): irritability, sleeplessness, anxiety, impaired appetite, and aggression.

Sounds like fun XD

You forgot psychosis, tuberculosis, lung diseases including cancer, among others.

Marijuana gets you "high" and you get "stoned". It certainly is an intoxicant. A drug that creates dependence. It is still illegal in many places for a reason. Doctors used to (or perhaps still do in poorly supplied circumstances) recommend Morphine (and not marijuana) out of sheer necessity and lack of alternatives in a very few specific situations, as a battle field quick pain killer for example. While in sharp contrast, smoking hash is only for pleasure and self destruction.

Consider this; Hitler not only killed Jews but also drug addicts (fondly referred to as "gypsies" today). Granted the man was an insane fanatic but he had vowed to use cruelty for the rest of the society. My point here is that drug addicts are indeed a drag on the society and human race. I have friends who are addicts and I tolerate them, but I am certainly not heartless or blind enough to not condemn the practice, so that the young may avoid its peril by staying clear.

Edited by Abu Dujana

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You forgot psychosis, tuberculosis, lung diseases including cancer, among others.

Marijuana gets you "high" and you get "stoned". It certainly is an intoxicant. A drug that creates dependence. It is still illegal in many places for a reason. Doctors used to (or perhaps still do in poorly supplied circumstances) recommend Morphine (and not marijuana) out of sheer necessity and lack of alternatives in a very few specific situations, as a battle field quick pain killer for example. While in sharp contrast, smoking hash is only for pleasure and self destruction.

Consider this; Hitler not only killed Jews but also drug addicts (fondly referred to as "gypsies" today). Granted the man was an insane fanatic but he had vowed to use cruelty for the rest of the society. My point here is that drug addicts are indeed a drag on the society and human race. I have friends who are addicts and I tolerate them, but I am certainly not heartless or blind enough to not condemn the practice, so that the young may avoid its peril.

It is fairly absurd to compare a heroin addict to a regular marijuana user. Why you would ever want to use Hitler to support your point is beyond me.

The question is not whether marijuana is an intoxicant, but rather whether or not it can be labeled as khamr, or something that covers the senses. Marijuana use for me has always taken my black and white world and turned into something colorful. It accentuates the senses.

I would like to be able to meditate in the way the urufa do, on command and without foreign substances. They are trained from an early age and are blessed to be born into spiritual communities. Growing up non-muslim in America does not provide for the same spiritual opportunities as the Islamic mystics have when they are young. For many people, marijuana provides the first glimpse into sublime spirituality.

Edited by Photi

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It is fairly absurd to compare a heroin addict to a regular marijuana user. Why you would ever want to use Hitler to support your point is beyond me.

The question is not whether marijuana is an intoxicant, but rather whether or not it can be labeled as khamr, or something that covers the senses. Marijuana use for me has always taken my black and white world and turned into something colorful. It accentuates the senses.

I would like to be able to meditate in the way the urufa do, on command and without foreign substances. They are trained from an early age and are blessed to be born into spiritual communities. Growing up non-muslim in America does not provide for the same spiritual opportunities as the Islamic mystics have when they are young. For many people, marijuana provides the first glimpse into sublime spirituality.

You can always reach spirituality without marijuana. This is why we have meditation, exercise, relaxation therapy, imagination, chi, religious prayers, and other less harmful methods to reach spiritualism or any other type of state one seeks. Why do people have to take negative shortcuts?? Why can't they do things in a healthier manner??

You might not go to hell for smoking marijuana or drinking beer 1x, but that doesn't make it any less haram.

And as for your caffeine response, you still haven't proven to be where caffeine causes schizophrenia in long term usage. That's why its best not to compare marijuana to caffeine because the substances are totally irrelevant of each other.

Edited by ShiaBen

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You can always reach spirituality without marijuana. This is why we have meditation, exercise, relaxation therapy, imagination, chi, religious prayers, and other less harmful methods to reach spiritualism or any other type of state one seeks. Why do people have to take negative shortcuts?? Why can't they do things in a healthier manner??

You might not go to hell for smoking marijuana or drinking beer 1x, but that doesn't make it any less haram.

And as for your caffeine response, you still haven't proven to be where caffeine causes schizophrenia in long term usage. That's why its best not to compare marijuana to caffeine because the substances are totally irrelevant of each other.

Nor have you shown where marijuana causes schizophrenia. As i said previously, all of your points have already been addressed earlier in the thread. If you go through and actually read the thread, you will see where those points have already been addressed. If after reading those points you have counter-points to bring up then by all means do so.

The relevancy of the caffeine example is that caffeine is a drug, it causes intoxication in large amounts, it alters the mood even in small amounts and is used recreationally. None of these facts is sufficient to cause the ulema to say that caffeine use is haram. So why is marijuana so different?

Simple statistics can be cited to prove the harm of alcohol use. Propaganda, lies and fear are used to "prove" the harmful effects of marijuana use, simple statistics tell a different story.

A major benefit marijuana brings to some users is that it changes the perception of reality just enough to bring to light new perspectives that are not immediately apparent in its absence. The ruling elite who control the status quo would rather not have to deal with the sort of independent thinkers that cannabis encourages. They would rather deal with sheep. Were the status quo perfect, then maybe we should all be sheep, but that is clearly not the case, not in the Western world and not in the Islamic world.

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Independent thinkers??

What exactly does this topic have to do with independent thinkers.

People can always re-frame new perspectives on their own without the use of marijuana.

You don't need marijuana to become an independent thinker or look at things through a different perspective.

Apparently you didn't read the posts before about DUI's through marijuana usage, lung damage, cancer, and other problems.

There are many drugs out there that don't have those simple statistics, but is that your justification for determining whether or a substance is haram/halal???

Because these problems to you are apparently halal, harmless, and quite beneficial.

Once again the discussion is about whether or not marijuana is good or bad, not compare/contrasting marijuana with alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, or other substances.

And in regards to caffeine, caffeine doesn't impair executive functions that take place in the frontal lobe, whereas marijuana and alcohol, unlike tobacco and caffeine do, this is why there have been DUI cases with marijuana and alcohol, but none when it comes to tobacco and caffeine. One of the main reasons for this impairment in executive functions, movement, etc. is because marijuana is a hallucinogen. Caffeine and tobacco do not make people hallucinate, which makes it less problematic when it comes to social interactions. But we've all seen the harm from drunks and those that hallucinate on drugs, hallucinating would most likely lead to haram acts like running people over, walking around naked, killing people, mistaking objects, decisions, and situations.

So now lets stick to the topic, is marijuana good or bad.

http://www.marijuana-info.org/

http://drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html

Two great sites that show many different ways how marijuana can cause problems.

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Independent thinkers??

What exactly does this topic have to do with independent thinkers.

People can always re-frame new perspectives on their own without the use of marijuana.

You don't need marijuana to become an independent thinker or look at things through a different perspective.

Apparently you didn't read the posts before about DUI's through marijuana usage, lung damage, cancer, and other problems.

There are many drugs out there that don't have those simple statistics, but is that your justification for determining whether or a substance is haram/halal???

Because these problems to you are apparently halal, harmless, and quite beneficial.

Once again the discussion is about whether or not marijuana is good or bad, not compare/contrasting marijuana with alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, or other substances.

And in regards to caffeine, caffeine doesn't impair executive functions that take place in the frontal lobe, whereas marijuana and alcohol, unlike tobacco and caffeine do, this is why there have been DUI cases with marijuana and alcohol, but none when it comes to tobacco and caffeine. One of the main reasons for this impairment in executive functions, movement, etc. is because marijuana is a hallucinogen. Caffeine and tobacco do not make people hallucinate, which makes it less problematic when it comes to social interactions. But we've all seen the harm from drunks and those that hallucinate on drugs, hallucinating would most likely lead to haram acts like running people over, walking around naked, killing people, mistaking objects, decisions, and situations.

So now lets stick to the topic, is marijuana good or bad.

The thing to do Ben is to go back through the science discussed already in the thread. You will see that when the science is being discussed, references are included. The only thing you are doing is spreading reefer madness propaganda that has been invented for political purposes. If cannabis use is indeed haram, it needs to be proven through the use of reason and scientific evidence, not political propaganda.

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Q: How does marijuana affect driving?

A: Marijuana affects many skills required for safe driving: alertness, concentration, coordination, and reaction time. Marijuana use can make it difficult to judge distances and react to signals and sounds on the road.

Marijuana may play a role in car accidents. In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana, and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine

source:

Brookoff, D.; Cook, C. S.; Williams, C.; and Mann, C. S. Testing reckless drivers for cocaine and marijuana. New England Journal of Medicine, 331:518-522, 1994.

Data have also shown that while smoking marijuana, people show the same lack of coordination on standard "drunk driver" tests as do people who have had too much to drink

source:

Liguori, A.; Gatto, C. P.; and Robinson, J. H. Effects of marijuana on equilibrium. psychomotor performance, and simulated driving. Behavioral Pharmacology, 9:599-609, 1998.

If that's not research/science/ legitimate sources, then my friend, you are blind to evidence.

Edited by ShiaBen

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http://www.marijuana-info.org/

http://drugabuse.gov.../marijuana.html

Two great sites that show many different ways how marijuana can cause problems.

Great, you give me two websites owned and operated by the US government. The US government has an agenda to keep marijuana illegal by spreading misinformation. For every anti-pot website you bring up, an equally persuasive pro-pot website could be suggested.

The biggest harms that comes from cannabis production and use are the legal consequences.

One of the most comprehensive studies on the use of marijuana is commonly referrred to as the Shaefer Report.

From the conclusion:

The Commission sincerely hopes that the tone of cautious restraint sounded in this Report will be perpetuated in the debate which will follow it. For those who feel we have not proceeded far enough, we are reminded of Thomas Jefferson's advice to George Washington that "Delay is preferable to error." For those who argue we have gone too far, we note Roscoe Pound's statement, "The law must be stable, but it must not stand still."

We have carefully analyzed the interrelationship between marihuana the drug, marihuana use as a behavior, and marihuana as a social problem. Recognizing the extensive degree of misinformation about marihuana as a drug, we have tried to demythologize it. Viewing the use of marihuana in its wider social context, we have tried to desymbolize it.

Considering the range of social concerns in contemporary America, marihuana does not, in our considered judgment, rank very high. We would deemphasize marihuana as a problem.

The existing social and legal policy is out of proportion to the individual and social harm engendered by the use of the drug. To replace it, we have attempted to design a suitable social policy, which we believe is fair, cautious and attuned to the social realities of our time.

Q: How does marijuana affect driving?

A: Marijuana affects many skills required for safe driving: alertness, concentration, coordination, and reaction time. Marijuana use can make it difficult to judge distances and react to signals and sounds on the road.

Marijuana may play a role in car accidents. In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana, and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine

source:

Brookoff, D.; Cook, C. S.; Williams, C.; and Mann, C. S. Testing reckless drivers for cocaine and marijuana. New England Journal of Medicine, 331:518-522, 1994.

Data have also shown that while smoking marijuana, people show the same lack of coordination on standard "drunk driver" tests as do people who have had too much to drink

source:

Liguori, A.; Gatto, C. P.; and Robinson, J. H. Effects of marijuana on equilibrium. psychomotor performance, and simulated driving. Behavioral Pharmacology, 9:599-609, 1998.

If that's not research/science/ legitimate sources, then my friend, you are blind to evidence.

Marijuana use and physical coordination have not been adequately studied. The US has forced its drug policy on the world and so as a consequence almost everywhere marijuana is illegal. In the US, if one wants to study the effects of marijuana on individuals they need to get permission from the DEA. the DEA does not give permission for this.

Evidence of marijuana use stays in the body for up to 30 days give or take. A person could smoke a joint, two weeks later he could get into an accident and test positive for marijuana. Does that mean the accident was caused by the marijuana use? It has been my experience that marjuana positively influences driving alertness and abilities.

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The difference is mainly that the people under the influence of MJ are more aware of intoxication and adjust themselves and their choices, whereas people under the influence of alcohol become less aware of their intoxication and do not adjust themselves, in fact become more confident in their abilities and choices.

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Marijuana is not a stimulant. It is a hallucinogen, it might enhance some sensory perceptions too much or too little. When you hallucinate, the reality you perceived may be altered. This is why there are DUI charges with people that do marijuana, methamphetamine (even though it boosts awareness and focus) and other drugs. A few people from my old H.S. were arrested for DUI through marijuana. They thought the cars in front of them were further away when in reality they were a lot closer so they ended up rolling closer and closer until they hit the car without proper awareness. Had they been vigilant and not in an altered state, they wouldn't have hit the bumpers in the first place.

Photi, your experience is not a scientific fact. Hallucinogens work differently in different human bodies. This is a known fact. What may not work for you, may work for others, and vice-versa.

This is why such substances are haram because they are uncontrollable and create problems.

The DUI case is an example of a social harm of marijuana.

Physiological harms would be the carcinogens and other cancer causing agents in marijuana that may lead to lung cancer, oral cancer, and other cancers.

Tuberculosis, coughing and weezing, lung infections, phlegm build up, chest congestion, respiratory illnesses are not helping either. This is why tobacco and marijuana are both haram for similar reasons in this regard.

Large heart rate increases have an obvious effect. The older you are the more likely your going to have even more problems when smoking marijuana with your current heart condition.

Even if you smoke marijuana and live up to 130 years, it's not about the rate one lives while using a substance, or whether its illegal or legal around the world, the bottom line is whether or not marijuana is haram or halal, and some Islamic clerics are warning the younger generations of the potential harms. Do they declare such rulings for themselves or for others??

1. Car accidents

2. Problems with schools

3. Worker productivity issues

4. Cancer likelihood

5. Breathing problems, heart, lung issues

6. Frequent absences from social life i.e. work, school, responsibilities, family

7. Affects on the frontal lobe and brain in general

8. Memory issues

9. Movement change

10. Hallucinations

Are all more than enough to show that marijuana can create major problems.

I'm sure if coffee, coca, fast food, tooth paste, red meat, or anything else becomes this destructive, then one day these will become haram, but as far as we see, marijuana can lead to a diverse amount of problems and if such substances were not problematic, why would Islamic scholars deem them haram??

Edited by ShiaBen

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Due to the lack of science on the matter, anecdotal evidence is the primary method by which one can derive knowledge about marijuana use. Where there is science, much of it is interpreted in a biased way one way or the other.

Questions about cancer and respiratory problems have already been addressed.

Sounds like your friends are a bunch of idiots if that really occurred. :unsure:

Many things can take away from school and work performance. Personal responsibility is key.

Islamic scholars deem it haram because they either equate marijuana with alcohol (ie khamr) or they say the problems arising from drug use necessitate its prohibition. It is a stretch to call marijuana khamr and the problems arising from drug use are problems deriving from opiate addiction or cocaine addiction or crystal meth addiction or what have you. The fact of the matter is that marijuana does not have the same deleterious effects as do narcotics. Despite what the DEA says, marijuana is not a narcotic.

There is one or two good documentaries on Netflix about marijuana prohibition in the US and Canada. If you are interested i can tell you which ones i am talking about. The prohibition of marijuana stems from political, socio-economic, and racist factors. The prohibition in the US was not and is still not based on science. I understand that the Islamic perspective has more to say than limiting the discussion to science, but from a purely scientific perspective the preponderance of anecdotal evidence that spans 5000+ years of human history suggests that there is no harm in responsible marijuana use.

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Photi, if it has helped you spiritually, good on ya, but you do know that its not the same for everyone. You played with fire and it gave you warmth instead of burning you. However, nothing can warrant the endorsement or advocation of it. Do you have children? Think of the children reading all this. Do you honestly think they deserve to mess themselves up by getting coerced into this bad habit? It is not something beneficial at all, or miraculous. Absurd are all the toadies who have been trying to depict it as a [Edited Out]ing fountain of youth, which it is not. It is no coincidence that all the people advocating it's use are all from among those here who are the least firm in faith or religion as all their posts on SC are evident.

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I don't see why a random Sheikh would be more help to you than Sistani, but whatever makes you happy.

Also you said that you can bring me benefits of marijuana, well any intoxicant has benefits and negative side effects simultaneously, the Quran says just that:

(2:219) They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit."

Although just to make a comment, the translation is not 100 % right, the word used for "wine" is "khamr" in arabic. It comes from "khimar" which means something that hinders/changes your perception. So narcotics are part of that verse too. (this was the first verse that Allah sent concerning intoxicants). As you can see it says they have good, and bad, but altogether the sin is larger than the profit.

(5:90-91) O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper. Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?

These were the 2 last verses revealed about "khamr" (intoxicants). They keep for from prayer AND Allah apparently from the Quran. then Allah says "will ye not then abstain?" Obviously Allah isn't asking us if we will or not, its a rhetoric question telling us to stay away.

I disagree. They completely combine. Many scientific "facts" were different for years, then discovered to be different. The different scientific fact would be the one mentioned in the Quran. Allah created science, so His book would obviously include. Just search for Science in the Quran. Some Japanese use the Quran to discover/test things.

In Fact, it talked more about embryology than about prayer.

Anyways, good luck (or not luck since u dont believe in it), I guess bil-tawfeeq with your journey.

(wasalam)

I don't see why a random Sheikh would be more help to you than Sistani, but whatever makes you happy.

Also you said that you can bring me benefits of marijuana, well any intoxicant has benefits and negative side effects simultaneously, the Quran says just that:

(2:219) They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit."

He isn't a random sheikh. He's a reliable sheikh whom my family has had close ties with for the past 7 years. He is very close with Sistani himself and was tortured under the rule of Saddam when he lived in Iraq because he was a huge representative of Ayatollah Sistani in his village. He is much more reliable than any online sources I can come across.

Thing is, I haven't ever come across a single negative factor of marijuana but I'm sure there are some if the Qur'an says so but contrary to propaganda that I've read about it online, I haven't come across a single person who is addicted to it in my life or suffers from any side-effects of it. Most the people I know who smoke weed are in UBC with me, on the same soccer team as me, or even compete in Muay Thai tournaments(great athletes). If you want to go into the chemistry behind it: I've also researched that and it's a hella long story but it's safe for the brain, sperm count, and other stuff they say it's bad for. The only harm in it is when people smoke it out of joints and some types of pipes (therefore they should buy a vaporizer)

In the whole world, there's been maybe 10 scientists who've used the Qur'an and successfully done Scientific research with it. The same has and can be done with the Torah and even Bible.

" with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?"

If you ACTUALLY want to follow that verse then you shouldn't listen to music, play video games, join social networking sites like facebook, etc. because they ALL hinder us from the remembrance of Allah. Anything that gets us so absorbed into it so that we can't think about other things is wrong, and I completely agree. Sometimes we're playing video games with friends and we start yelling and get so into it that it just doesn't feel halal anymore. What this verse may also be telling us can be just to know your limit in life and not go too far with anything: especially when it comes to intoxicants and gambling.

""well any intoxicant has benefits and negative side effects simultaneously, the Quran says just that:

(2:219) They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." ""

Except Marijuana has no known negative side effects except that you get hella thirsty for the first 5 mins. after you smoke it. You can google negative effects of marijuana but most of them are just lies. The profit is greater than the bad effects.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/157570/many_drugs_are_bad_but_marijuana_is.html?cat=71

Remember this: marijuana isn't illegal because it's bad, it's bad because it's illegal. Obviously if the government makes something illegal they have to use whatever propaganda they can and "scientific facts" to make it look bad. So they have a good excuse! If marijuana is so damn bad yet it's safer than alcohol, shouldn't alcohol be illegal too!? It's all about business. Marijuana is the cure to so many diseases that drug companies would lose billions of dollars if marijuana was legalized. Why? Because drug companies can't sell weed! It's a natural plan that people can grow in their own houses and use as medicine themselves!

A messed up psycho thinking I'm an idiot, I would take that as a compliment, but it's too trivial a thing to feel flattered.

On topic:

No doctor will ever recommend marijuana. Or was the poster on this page referring to witch doctors / shamans? It is a psychedelic drug which is harmful to anyone's mental health beyond a shadow of doubt. It's effects vary greatly from person to person varying from harmful to extremely harmful. Google is your friend. Why would anyone need it for "concentration" unless they're already addicted to it or suffering from some sort of inferiority complex, another psychiatric condition. It is a poison for the brain and inflicts nearly irreversible harmful changes. It's also bad for your body.

It has no place in our religion, society or life. It has no positive use, only self destructive ones. Not to mention that it's also a waste of money. If you don't agree, let's see how everyone else around you in real life would say about using marijuana unless you smoke it secretly. Let's see the younglings smoke that stuff in front of their parents or teachers. Think they'll approve? Think your wife or husband would approve? See how people treat junkies when they smoke it in public, spreading that stench.

Honestly, there is nothing to be "open minded" about this filth. IMO an individual is a lot better off if they instead get into the habit of drawing a line rather than being "open minded" about reckless and satanical snares and ideas about disgusting activities like this one. This is a religious forum and we have morals. If anyone thinks it is allowed in Islam, let them produce a popular fatwa of its recommendation here. On the contrary, it is actually a forbidden, vile and sinful practice.

If it were any good in the least then there would be examples of famous people using it. And no, the likes of Boy George and similar modern garbage that has made it into the hall of fame of today's perverted standards do not count. Not to me at least. No one in their right minds can (or have, so far in this thread) recommend or approve of using marijuana.

"No doctor will ever recommend marijuana. Or was the poster on this page referring to witch doctors / shamans? It is a psychedelic drug which is harmful to anyone's mental health beyond a shadow of doubt. It's effects vary greatly from person to person varying from harmful to extremely harmful. Google is your friend. Why would anyone need it for "concentration" unless they're already addicted to it or suffering from some sort of inferiority complex, another psychiatric condition. It is a poison for the brain and inflicts nearly irreversible harmful changes. It's also bad for your body."

My Aunt's doctor in Iran just recommended marijuana for her while she is doing chemotherapy. I don't NEED marijuana for concentration since I quit 3 weeks ago when I found out that it is haram. I still think it's safe although Islam may know something I don't about it and that's probably why it's haram. I trust Islam over Scientific "facts".

Everything else you said was basically your opinion on the drug and you had nothing to back up your opinion either, not even personal experiences. I've been around potheads for the past 3 years of my life since I started. I smoked at least 400 times in those 3 years and it didn't ruin my life in any way. Neither did it ruin my friends' lives. I only had one pot-smoking friend who dropped out of school and became a failure in life and that was just cause he never had the willpower to study in the first place and was just doing it because of force from his parents. Everytime something bad happens to a pot smoker people blame the weed when bad things happen to a lot of people that don't smoke pot too. [Edited Out] happens all the time whether you smoke weed or not. It's not a "destructive" drug for society.

You forgot psychosis, tuberculosis, lung diseases including cancer, among others.

Marijuana gets you "high" and you get "stoned". It certainly is an intoxicant. A drug that creates dependence. It is still illegal in many places for a reason. Doctors used to (or perhaps still do in poorly supplied circumstances) recommend Morphine (and not marijuana) out of sheer necessity and lack of alternatives in a very few specific situations, as a battle field quick pain killer for example. While in sharp contrast, smoking hash is only for pleasure and self destruction.

Consider this; Hitler not only killed Jews but also drug addicts (fondly referred to as "gypsies" today). Granted the man was an insane fanatic but he had vowed to use cruelty for the rest of the society. My point here is that drug addicts are indeed a drag on the society and human race. I have friends who are addicts and I tolerate them, but I am certainly not heartless or blind enough to not condemn the practice, so that the young may avoid its peril by staying clear.

The Gypsies Hitler was killing were actually Romanis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Hitler also thought Jews were a drag on the human race. Does that make them so?

Hitler ALSO thought that the Aryan race was tall, blue eyed, and blond. The Aryan race actually comes from India works it's way towards Iran, and lastly hits Germany.

BTW hash and marijuana is the same thing. Hash is just a more concentrated form of weed.

One last thing:

Science and the Qur'an do NOT combine.

There are some scientific facts which can prove certain verses from the Qur'an and that's one of the beautiful miracles of the Holy Book. Others, however, don't work out at all.

It's like bringing physics and trying to prove it in a Chemistry lab. Some things will work, others won't. It doesn't mean that either one is wrong.

All I'm saying is that religion is complete. Science isn't. They haven't discovered anything bad about weed yet (excluding the propaganda) but if Ayatollah Sistani says that it's haram, then I accept his judgement over any Scientist.

Science tells us that a bit of alcohol per day is a great thing for your health. Does that make it halal? No. God knows something they don't and therefore I respect God's judgement over modern day Science.

I finally got the answer from a representative of Ayatollah Sistani and he told me that it's haram for the exact reason I just mentioned; Because God says so. He admitted that he himself hasn't done enough research to prove me wrong on my judgements (that it's safe) but that it's bad just for this reason. I'm sure that sometime in the future we'll come up with an ACTUAL reason why it's harmful. Unlike everything that everyone's mentioned on this forum. For now, peace out. I'm done making posts on this forum (got some studying to do).

Edited by aryathehakkak

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Photi, if it has helped you spiritually, good on ya, but you do know that its not the same for everyone. You played with fire and it gave you warmth instead of burning you. However, nothing can warrant the endorsement or advocation of it. Do you have children? Think of the children reading all this. Do you honestly think they deserve to mess themselves up by getting coerced into this bad habit? It is not something beneficial at all, or miraculous. Absurd are all the toadies who have been trying to depict it as a [Edited Out]ing fountain of youth, which it is not. It is no coincidence that all the people advocating it's use are all from among those here who are the least firm in faith or religion as all their posts on SC are evident.

What about all the adult parents who read what you are saying and then proceed to freak out when they discover one of their children is smoking pot and subsequently severely punish him or her? Your extreme attitude represents a sledge hammer going after a fly (actually i would argue the hammer is going after a butterfly). Furthermore, this irrational attitude about cannabis causes its many benefits (which far outweigh the negatives) to be overlooked.

I don;t have any children but I do have a couple young family members who i am very close to. I would rather catch them smoking pot over cigarettes or alcohol any day.

The text I colored up above is random conjecture not based off reality but off preconceived notions from anti-cannabis people.

The form of argumentation you anti-pot people use is quite similar to the form of argumentation a wahabbi uses to "prove" how wrong the shias are. I will spell it out: You are convinced cannabis is bad, and so even if you do not have the best argument against it, you justify to yourself that excessive condemnation and distorting and maligning the truth of its effects is needed to show other people just how bad it is. If it was so bad for you, you would actually have facts and statistics to present instead of regurgitating the exact same lies that were used to convince you of how bad cannabis is.

When your children experiment with marijuana and discover it is not harmful, how will they react to your lie? Will they then think that maybe heroin or crystal meth is not dangerous either?

Weed makes you Stupid i;ve seen people who have high IQ's smoke it

and not they act like they have 0 IQ

You are basing this statement off caricatures. Most of us have seen Cheech and Chong or Harold and Kumar. They are pretty funny but you should not take their personalities as the archetypal pot smokers. Their comedic caricatures are based off a bunch of half-truths. Effective comedy usually is.

Some strains of marijuana have narcotic like effects which causes some people to act in a relaxed, affable manner that may appear as stupidity. Acting silly is not the same thing as having a low IQ. Other strains of marijuana have stimulant-like effects, some strains are more meditative, some strains are more psychedelic. The huge diversity of effects of THC on the human mind is actually an argument in favor of the medicinal use of cannabis.

[Opiates are highly addictive but in some cases are needed to counter pain. Some strains of marijuana offer great pain relief without the negative side-effects of the opiates. Wouldn't Islam argue in favor of the less dangerous medicine?]

Excessive use of marijuana can cause some temporary disturbance to memory formation. The cure for this is to smoke less pot.

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What about all the adult parents who read what you are saying and then proceed to freak out when they discover one of their children is smoking pot and subsequently severely punish him or her? Your extreme attitude represents a sledge hammer going after a fly (actually i would argue the hammer is going after a butterfly). Furthermore, this irrational attitude about cannabis causes its many benefits (which far outweigh the negatives) to be overlooked.

You were high when you wrote that, and I'm sure you were being completely rational in your thought while writing it. Yes, my irrational and extremely stern condemnation of weed, when read by a parent could endanger the child because the dad might shoot him/her or chop their head off if their child gets caught smoking weed. And you're right that that would bring to the mental level of a wahabi. :rolleyes:

Get outta here...

Edited by Abu Dujana

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