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In the Name of God بسم الله

Who are the clerics, and scholars

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Ayatullah Fadlullah is more a Sunni scholar than a Shia scholar. I do not think that Hezbullah Soldiers would be following him. He would prefer doing taqleed of Ayatullah Sistani (a.r) or Ayatullah Ali Akbar Khaminai (a.r).

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Ayatullah Fadlullah is more a Sunni scholar than a Shia scholar. I do not think that Hezbullah Soldiers would be following him. He would prefer doing taqleed of Ayatullah Sistani (a.r) or Ayatullah Ali Akbar Khaminai (a.r).

(salam)

Fadlallah is not a sunni scholar i would watch slandering men whom spend their days and nights seeking what is right from Allah. and not just saying something is correct because all the other scholars agree to it. and what sunni do you know that accepts imam ali (as) as the successor of the prophet? as for whom Hezbollah follows i can consider that at least some among them consider what fadlallah says but perhaps not the majority.

and hassan nasrallah don't seem to have a problem with fadlallah

http://english.bayyn...ing17042007.htm

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/se_002/news/31012007.htm

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/se_002/news/31012008.htm

and

Thank you everyone for your reply's

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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Ayatullah Fadlullah is more a Sunni scholar than a Shia scholar. I do not think that Hezbullah Soldiers would be following him. He would prefer doing taqleed of Ayatullah Sistani (a.r) or Ayatullah Ali Akbar Khaminai (a.r).

Then you clearly know nothing about Fadhlallah and Hezbollah.

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First it was Fadllallah

Now its Khamenai

salam

(salam)

so officially it was fadlallah at first? does anyone know how long this period lasted? and i have read that some say fadlallah is the supirtual leader of Hezbollah, is there probability that he is more then is being let on? since he is a very well known ayatollah in Lebanon, and even was close to educated Hezbollah in the beginning years. i know he differs with a few things of khamenai and don't associate with him, but also the assignation attempt on fadlallah is said to be a repercussion for a Hezbollah bombing. this seems like it got him under the spot light somewhat, and Hezbollah says Khameni now but from what i seen it did not say ali so was wikipedia referring to the dead khameni, it seems quite much like many among Hezbollah still listen to him but yet they do not say so or they are not a majority. as he does reject something of khameni i have read, in his reasoning for this is for truth. or do they openly say Ali khameni ?

and brother aabiss do not take offense by my words, i just know for sure he is not a sunni scholar there is this major division going on between sunni and shia that needs to be fixed and from what i have read so far it seem both fadlallah and hassan nasrallah are both in agreement to this.

(wasalam)

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^ No Hizbullah has nothing to do with Sayed Fadlallah. They are supporters of the Islamic Republic and get funded by them. Their spiritual and political leader is Sayed Ali Khamenei, before him it was Imam al Khomeini.

There is nothing hidden or secret or unknown about this. It is fact.

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^ No Hizbullah has nothing to do with Sayed Fadlallah. They are supporters of the Islamic Republic and get funded by them. Their spiritual and political leader is Sayed Ali Khamenei, before him it was Imam al Khomeini.

There is nothing hidden or secret or unknown about this. It is fact.

(salam)

then what about this? in this period of Lebanon when Hezbollah started it was him who was there speaking, educating and giving sermons. and also the foundersof Hezbollah were

followers of one of fadlallah's students.

Assassination attempt

On 8 March 1985, a car bomb equivalent to 440 lb (200 kg) of dynamite exploded 9-45 metres[8][9] from his house in Beirut, Lebanon. The blast destroyed a 7 story apartment building, a cinema, killed 80 people and wounded 256. The attack was timed to go off as worshippers were leaving Friday Prayers. Most of the dead were girls and women, who had been leaving the mosque, though the ferocity of the blast "burned babies in their beds," "killed a bride buying her trousseau," and "blew away three children as they walked home from the mosque." It also "devastated the main street of the densely populated" West Beirut suburb. [10] [11] but Fadl-Allāh escaped injury. One of his bodyguards at the time was Imad Mughniyeh, who was later assassinated in a car-bombing in February 2008.[12]

The assassination attempt was believed by some to have been the work of Israel, or of the CIA, as a response to the Hezbollah bombings of the American embassy and of American and French peacekeeping headquarters in Beirut in October, 1983. [11]

and then there is this

Return to Lebanon

After 21 years of studying under the prominent teachers of the Najaf religious university he concluded his studies in 1966 and returned to Lebanon. He had already visited Lebanon in 1952 where he recited a poem eulogizing Muhsin Al-Amin at his funeral.

In 1966 Fadl-Allāh received an invitation from a group who had established a society called ”Usrat Ataakhi” (The family of Fraternity) to come and live with them in the area of Nabba’a in Eastern Beirut. He agreed, especially as the conditions at Najaf impelled him to leave.

In Naba’a Fadl-Allāh began his work, by organizing cultural seminars and delivering religious speeches that discussed social issues as well.

Nevertheless, Fadl-Allāh’s main concern was to continue to develop his academic work. Thus he founded a religious school called The Islamic Sharia Institute in which several students enrolled who later became prominent religious scholars including Martyr Sheikh Ragib Harb. He also established a public library, a women’s cultural center and a medical clinic.

When the Lebanese civil war forced him to leave the area, he moved to the Southern Suburbs where he started to give priority to teaching and educating the people. He used the mosque as his center for holding daily prayers giving lessons in Qur’anic interpretation, as well as religious and moral speeches, especially on religious occasions such as Ashura. He soon resumed his academic work and began to give daily lessons in Islamic principles, jurisprudence and morals. His students who used to meet him at his house very early in the morning were astonished at his enthusiasm and perseverance.

------

do you all know who ragheb harb was?

-----

Sheikh Ragheb Harb (1952–1984) was a Lebanese Shiite resistance leader. He was born in Jebsheet, a village in the Jabal Amel region of Southern Lebanon. Harb was an imam and led an anti-Israeli[1] Shiite resistance until he was killed by Israelis on 16 February 1984.[2] According to one source, Harb's supporters would go on to form the Lebanese paramilitary and political organization Hezbollah.[1]

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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Just read my signature...

Hasan Sajjad

President

(salam)

brother it was not started by Khomeini like your signature says, many people supported the Islamic revolution in iran and adopted some ideas but this was not set forth by him but they did support them in the later days because they are fighting israel as you can see in the post above Hezbollah was started by followers of Raghib Harb who was a student of Ayatollah fadlallah. that means the start of this was not by followers of Khomeini at all!

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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love the way u put it :P

(salam)

Bruv , I love to use these title for him man ... he is the don man :)

Peace

Ayatullah Fadlullah is more a Sunni scholar than a Shia scholar. I do not think that Hezbullah Soldiers would be following him. He would prefer doing taqleed of Ayatullah Sistani (a.r) or Ayatullah Ali Akbar Khaminai (a.r).

(salam)

Dude , the question is "Who are the clerics, and scholars for Hezbollah? in Lebanon".. No one asked your silly opinion on Ayatollah Fadlullah ... duh .... and we want to know hezbollah's preference and not yours ...

Peace

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Make my whole profile reputation -10000000000000000000000. I do not care of this foolish reputation system :)

(salam)

brother i have not been giving you - points so your back lash at me is un called for. i try not to give anything except + points ;) in fact even though you just gave me many - points i will not give you any, because i do not find it permissible to - someone just because we disagree or are having a discussion, and i am telling you clear out what i think. i do not need a rep - or + to say that. :) so i only try to give + points when i see something i like. someone else gave you -

it would be better to only use it for +'s these people who going around - everyone who mentions fadlallah are not our teachers so why should we follow them and - everyone who speaks otherwise. if we disagree then it is duly noted in the post it's self.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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Moderators you know what is going on in this topic? There is negative positive reputation competition among the users. Do you want to know who is giving negative reputation to whom then message me. There is not even a single post which is not given reputation. Are these posts given reputation on the basis of good educational material or personal grudge and enmity? I think this question does not need any answer. If i say "Jazak Allah" and i get -2 reputation for these two words then the whole story is evident. This system has created good FITNA among the users.

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(salam)

I gave you -1 :)... because of your silly post :).. Trust me bruv , I dont have anything against you or your WHATEVER YOU FOLLOW .... You took this conversation in a wrong direction .... Accept and apologise ..

Peace

Edited by labbaik_khamenai
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bro shakari, i think you taking the rep system a bit too serious! im on -9, do i complain? lol nahh i dont even care.

Brother By Allah i am least interested in this system but this is creating hatred among the users. It looks instead of baning someone moderators have given authority to other users to humiliate and insult others with giving negative points to those users. I did not have any enemy on shiachat but now i have least three. Why? only and only because they gave negative repu to me and even if i do not care i feel bad about them now.

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(salam)

okay well lets get back on track. what about scholars who are in Lebanon and thus providing Hezbollah with khutba and fatwa and such things? and is hassan nasrallah considered a scholar? or is he just a political leader? if so who was his teacher?

(wasalam)

Moderators you know what is going on in this topic? There is negative positive reputation competition among the users. Do you want to know who is giving negative reputation to whom then message me. There is not even a single post which is not given reputation. Are these posts given reputation on the basis of good educational material or personal grudge and enmity? I think this question does not need any answer. If i say "Jazak Allah" and i get -2 reputation for these two words then the whole story is evident. This system has created good FITNA among the users.

(salam)

i agree this rating things should be taking away. because it is wrong to harm someones reputation thus many may see this red or even the red marks on the post and consider what that person is saying is wrong. SC you should take this feature away. that is my advise. because it is harming peoples reputations. many truthful things are being giving the negative and many lies the positive. so it would be better to leave it to the reader to consider it deeply and read and research and not going on rep marks.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher
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^ No Hizbullah has nothing to do with Sayed Fadlallah. They are supporters of the Islamic Republic and get funded by them. Their spiritual and political leader is Sayed Ali Khamenei, before him it was Imam al Khomeini.

There is nothing hidden or secret or unknown about this. It is fact.

Yes, Fadlallah was the spiritual leader first, i can guarantee 100000%

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(salam)

okay well lets get back on track. what about scholars who are in Lebanon and thus providing Hezbollah with khutba and fatwa and such things? and is hassan nasrallah considered a scholar? or is he just a political leader? if so who was his teacher?

(wasalam)

salam

Well Sayed Hassan Nasrallah is a very educated person off course, but he is not a scholar. He gave lecture to his ''troops'' and teach them

All Hezbollah's Fatwa are taken from Khamenai.

He is now a political leader, but he started as a ''mujahed'' or soldier if u prefer.

salam

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^ No Hizbullah has nothing to do with Sayed Fadlallah. They are supporters of the Islamic Republic and get funded by them. Their spiritual and political leader is Sayed Ali Khamenei, before him it was Imam al Khomeini.

There is nothing hidden or secret or unknown about this. It is fact.

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Ayatullah al-Udhma Fadhlullah(HA) is a Marja', like Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani(HA) and Imam Khamenei(HA) (who is the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen as well as a Marja') and there are many many other Maraj'e - alhamdu lillah, the Shia are blessed with a multitude of Maraje'.

Hizbullah is a Resistance Movement and a Political Party, that takes it's inspiration from the true Islam of Muhammad(S), as expounded by Imam Khumayni(A) and others following the victory of the Islamic Revolution in Iran. Those who are members of (or sympathisers and lovers of) Hizbullah from amongst the Shia, are duty bound to make taqleed of a Marja' Taqleed. Some make taqleed of Imam Khamenei(HA), others make taqleed of Ayatullah al-Udhma Fadhlullah(HA) others Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani(HA) and so on.

Since Hizbullah follow the line of Wilayat al-Faqih, they have a loyalty and allegience to the Wali Faqih - Imam Khamenei(HA), however that doesn't mean that they all make taqleed of him - however as I have said some do.

It should be noted that we as Shia, do not have this strange concept of "Spiritual" Leader, we have the Leadership. The Marja'iyyeh and the Wilayah - both of which can be encompassed in the Imamah of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) following his return, insha Allah soon.

Also; for those who have problems with Ayatullah al-Udhma Fadhlullah(HA), be careful. Don't cross red lines.

Hope that helps.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

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^ No Hizbullah has nothing to do with Sayed Fadlallah. They are supporters of the Islamic Republic and get funded by them. Their spiritual and political leader is Sayed Ali Khamenei, before him it was Imam al Khomeini.

There is nothing hidden or secret or unknown about this. It is fact.

Salam,

"has nothing to do" hints at a negative tone. There is no negative relations between Fadlullah and Hezbollah, they have an excellent relationship. It is fact.

salam

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In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Ayatullah al-Udhma Fadhlullah(HA) is a Marja', like Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani(HA) and Imam Khamenei(HA) (who is the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen as well as a Marja') and there are many many other Maraj'e - alhamdu lillah, the Shia are blessed with a multitude of Maraje'.

Hizbullah is a Resistance Movement and a Political Party, that takes it's inspiration from the true Islam of Muhammad(S), as expounded by Imam Khumayni(A) and others following the victory of the Islamic Revolution in Iran. Those who are members of (or sympathisers and lovers of) Hizbullah from amongst the Shia, are duty bound to make taqleed of a Marja' Taqleed. Some make taqleed of Imam Khamenei(HA), others make taqleed of Ayatullah al-Udhma Fadhlullah(HA) others Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani(HA) and so on.

Since Hizbullah follow the line of Wilayat al-Faqih, they have a loyalty and allegience to the Wali Faqih - Imam Khamenei(HA), however that doesn't mean that they all make taqleed of him - however as I have said some do.

It should be noted that we as Shia, do not have this strange concept of "Spiritual" Leader, we have the Leadership. The Marja'iyyeh and the Wilayah - both of which can be encompassed in the Imamah of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) following his return, insha Allah soon.

Also; for those who have problems with Ayatullah al-Udhma Fadhlullah(HA), be careful. Don't cross red lines.

Hope that helps.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Salam

With due respect, Khamanei (ha) is not Wali Amr Al-Muslameen, because when questioned about local issues outside Iran, he will always say to refer to the scholars in that region. He won't have commands (political I mean) for anyone but Iran. His general talk is ofcourse something that doesn't need an individual leader, for example, unity, etc, these are not about obeying him but obeying God. So he is only taking partial role of leadership in Iran (which is really limited and in his limited role also has much pressure from other scholars), and certainly is not taking it with regards to the rest of Muslims.

So I would say it's best just to leave this whole Wali Amr thing because it sounds nice and all, but has no reality in real world.

Edited by Awakened
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Salam

With due respect, Khamanei (ha) is not Wali Amr Al-Muslameen, because when questioned about local issues outside Iran, he will always say to refer to the scholars in that region. He won't have commands (political I mean) for anyone but Iran. His general talk is ofcourse something that doesn't need an individual leader, for example, unity, etc, these are not about obeying him but obeying God. So he is only taking partial role of leadership in Iran (which is really limited and in his limited role also has much pressure from other scholars), and certainly is not taking it with regards to the rest of Muslims.

So I would say it's best just to leave this whole Wali Amr thing because it sounds nice and all, but has no reality in real world.

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

With respect Br "Awakened"; the title of the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen, is given to the Wali Faqih in the absence of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ). Whether you, or anyone else for that matter, accepts this or not is neither here nor there. It should be remembered that our beloved Aimmah al-Athaar(A) were the ImamÚáíå ÇáÓáÇãs regardless of whether they were accepted by the people or not. The title is not dependent on people's acceptance.

Also; as for making it a temporal matter, it should be noted that like the ImamÚáíå ÇáÓáÇãs, the authority of the Wali Faqih or Wali Amr al-Muslimeen is upon the hearts of the believers, regardless of what manner of temporal rule they dwell within.

While there are those who do not accept that Imam Khamenei(HA) *is* the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen in the absence of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ), the same way Imam Khumayni(A) was the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen prior to him is completely irrelavent, he is and Imam Khumayni(A) was, and the opinion of those who do not accept this is not worth even a fraction of a grain of salt.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

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In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

With respect Br "Awakened"; the title of the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen, is given to the Wali Faqih in the absence of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ). Whether you, or anyone else for that matter, accepts this or not is neither here nor there. It should be remembered that our beloved Aimmah al-Athaar(A) were the ImamÚáíå ÇáÓáÇãs regardless of whether they were accepted by the people or not. The title is not dependent on people's acceptance.

Also; as for making it a temporal matter, it should be noted that like the ImamÚáíå ÇáÓáÇãs, the authority of the Wali Faqih or Wali Amr al-Muslimeen is upon the hearts of the believers, regardless of what manner of temporal rule they dwell within.

While there are those who do not accept that Imam Khamenei(HA) *is* the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen in the absence of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ), the same way Imam Khumayni(A) was the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen prior to him is completely irrelavent, he is and Imam Khumayni(A) was, and the opinion of those who do not accept this is not worth even a fraction of a grain of salt.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Salam

Khomeini (qas) showed Authority wise, all Fuqaha have authority in absence of Imam. But he also showed only one needs to take active leadership for government. Now is Khamanei (ha) taking active leadership for all Muslims? No.. he is isn't. He always says to refer to scholars in that area.

When Khomeini (qas) was asked to declare himself Khalifa of Muslim Umma by Hizbal Tahreer, he rejected their proposal and didn't do so. Where does this Wali Amral Muslimeen thing come from? Can you show me him claiming this?

And it's not about acceptance and non-acceptance, he won't give commands to people that accept him from other parts of the World.. He always says to refer to Uluma of that region.

Edited by Awakened
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Salam,

"has nothing to do" hints at a negative tone. There is no negative relations between Fadlullah and Hezbollah, they have an excellent relationship. It is fact.

salam

Yes that was the point. There is no outward negative relations between them at all, nor do they attack each other because hizbullah members were made to keep all negative feelings, disagreements and attacks to themselves in order to keep peace. How do i know this? I have inside knowledge.

However, though there may be members of hizbullah who follow scholars other than sayed ali khamenei, the majority do follow him both spiritually and politically, as does the leader of hizbullah, sayed hassan nasrallah.

It is well known fact that they are great supporters of WF, IRI. It is not a well known fact that many don't consider sayed fadlallah to be a valid marjaa because they don't want it to be, however it is still fact.

Believe it or don't believe it, nobody cares.

If you want to trust me regarding this, keeping in mind i have a lot of information regarding the insides of the group (take that however you like?) then go ahead, if you don't want to then don't either.

Just know i am providing you with the truth and all others get their information from secondary sources.

Wasalam.

Edit- also keep in mind that even in Lebanon amongst the common folk, even though there are people in the hizb who follow other than the supreme leader, when they are talking about issues such as eid they will say "sayed fadlallah is celebrating eid on friday, but hizbullah is doing it saturday". That is also proof enough of whom the organization takes its spiritual guidance from. :)

Edited by 3ashiqat-Al-Batoul
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Salam

Khomeini (qas) showed Authority wise, all Fuqaha have authority in absence of Imam. But he also showed only one needs to take active leadership for government. Now is Khamanei (ha) taking active leadership for all Muslims? No.. he is isn't. He always says to refer to scholars in that area.

Salaams

Can you point out where Imam Khamenei (ra) has said so, to refer to our own local scholars?

Infact, the reality is the opposite, and even Seyyed Hassan Nasrallah is on record for saying that, he recieves direct guidance from Imam Khamenei (ra).

When Khomeini (qas) was asked to declare himself Khalifa of Muslim Umma by Hizbal Tahreer, he rejected their proposal and didn't do so. Where does this Wali Amral Muslimeen thing come from? Can you show me him claiming this?

Just due to Imam Khomeini (ra) rejecting an offer from the hizb-ut-tahrir to become a "caliph", doesnt make him more or less the leader of the ummah. There are fundamental differences between the "caliphate" and the "wilayat-e-faqih", so it makes perfect sense that he rejected the former. The title "wali-amr-ul-muslimeen" is not one that has to be claimed, rather it is automatically attained by wali-e-faqih of the time, as he infact is, the leader of the muslim ummah at that time.

And it's not about acceptance and non-acceptance, he won't give commands to people that accept him from other parts of the World..

Maybe the need to give out any authoritative fatwas hasnt arisen yet. Regardless, if you do listen to any of his speeches, many of them are directed at us, the whole ummah.

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Edit- also keep in mind that even in Lebanon amongst the common folk, even though there are people in the hizb who follow other than the supreme leader, when they are talking about issues such as eid they will say "sayed fadlallah is celebrating eid on friday, but hizbullah is doing it saturday". That is also proof enough of whom the organization takes its spiritual guidance from. :)

the wali-e faqih and the marja-e taqlid are two completely seperate issues.

Accordingly, the Constitution was changed and the condition of "marji'iyya" was taken out from the qualifications of the wali-e faqih who was to assume the supreme leadership of the Islamic Republic of Iran. (See Article 107 and 109 which clearly state that ijtihãd is a sufficient qualification for the leader, he does not necessarily have to be a marja'-e taqlid.)

In the light of the above change in the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran, supported by the views of the late Founder of the Islamic Revolution, we can conclude that the office of Wali-e faqih and the Marja'iyya does not have to be one and the same: it could be or it could not be, it depends on the person who assumes that position.

In the final analysis, I would say that one may do taqlid of any of the marãji'-e taqlid in all matters; but since they are silent or have no opinion on political issues and on issues related to the Islamic Movement world-wide, one should follow the Wali-e faqih of Iran who is best suited to guide on such issues.

Was-salaam.

Sayyid M. Rizvi

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