khilafat

[bint e zahra]

agar pehle teen khalifa munafiq the to hazrat ali ne un k khifaf jung kiun nahi ki jub k quran me soorah toba ki ayet no 73 me ha k munafiqon or mushrikon se jung karo or in per sakhti karo to phir hazrat ali ne in k khilaf talwar kiun nahi uttai

[Raqib Naqvi]

aap ne jo sawal pocha ha us ka tafsili jawab deene ki liye khuch time chahiye jo aaj kal mere pass bilkul nai ha kyunke 8 dec koi mere paper hain or tiyari bilkul nai ha jo maine in dino main karni ha , wase to ye koi itna bara sawal nai ha or ye sawal loog us waqt uthate hain jab koi shia inhe inhi ki kitaboon se MOLA ALI AS ko bakioon se afzaal sabit kar deta ha to pher khuch loog bjaye har manane ke ye sawal kar dete hain ke acha agar khilafat un ka haq thi to unho se talwar kyun nai uthai. main abhi bus thori deer tak jag raha hooon agar mere se howa to abhi reply kar doon ga nai to koi na koi to reply kar he de ga or agar kisi ne na kiya to main he 3,4 din tak time nikal kar kar doon ga

[bint e zahra]

aap ne jo sawal pocha ha us ka tafsili jawab deene ki liye khuch time chahiye jo aaj kal mere pass bilkul nai ha kyunke 8 dec koi mere paper hain or tiyari bilkul nai ha jo maine in dino main karni ha , wase to ye koi itna bara sawal nai ha or ye sawal loog us waqt uthate hain jab koi shia inhe inhi ki kitaboon se MOLA ALI AS ko bakioon se afzaal sabit kar deta ha to pher khuch loog bjaye har manane ke ye sawal kar dete hain ke acha agar khilafat un ka haq thi to unho se talwar kyun nai uthai. main abhi bus thori deer tak jag raha hooon agar mere se howa to abhi reply kar doon ga nai to koi na koi to reply kar he de ga or agar kisi ne na kiya to main he 3,4 din tak time nikal kar kar doon ga

agar tum ne jawab 3 ,4 dino me dena tha to tub hi yahan ate ye apna poora time table batane ki kia zaroorat thi

[khakay batool]

agar pehle teen khalifa munafiq the to hazrat ali ne un k khifaf jung kiun nahi ki jub k quran me soorah toba ki ayet no 73 me ha k munafiqon or mushrikon se jung karo or in per sakhti karo to phir hazrat ali ne in k khilaf talwar kiun nahi uttai

salam bint-e,

aAp ka sawal bohat umda hai.

Hazrat Ali [as] ney talwaar hamaisha deen-e-haq kay liyie jehaad mien uthaai. tareeq mien kaheen nahi milay ga kay kisi ko na-haq qatl kiya ya apny kisi mafaad kay liyie tawaar chaali ho. jis Ali[as] ko hum aAj mushkil kusha manntey hain, agar wo khilafat kay dunyavi maAmley per talwar utha laitey, tu aAj hum khud un ko mushkil kusha na bolaatey.

pehley 'seerat-e-Ali' ka tafseeli mutaAlla kijiyie tu phir khilafat ki uljhi hovi dori haath aAiye gee.

ws

Edited November 17, 2009 by khakay batool

[sharib]

agar pehle teen khalifa munafiq the to hazrat ali ne un k khifaf jung kiun nahi ki jub k quran me soorah toba ki ayet no 73 me ha k munafiqon or mushrikon se jung karo or in per sakhti karo to phir hazrat ali ne in k khilaf talwar kiun nahi uttai

Salam ,

1.Abdullah ibne Ubay was a munafiq well known to Prophet Muhaamad(saw) and around him, why did he not get him killed?

Hz. Ali tolerated Munafiqs for the same reasons for which Prophet tolerated munafiqs around him.

The action and course adopted by HZ.ALI was in accordance with the tradition of Rasool Allah in this regards ...... befitting to the time and occasion.

2. The ayat you have quoted is not to be taken as the license to kill mushrik and munafiqs blindly .... for Quran says " la ikraha fid-din".....So munafiqs and mushriks around you are not to be killed simply just because they are so.......

You have not understood the correct interpretation of that ayat, I am afraid.

Now you have to tell us why Prophet tolerated Munafiqs around him...even in the ranks of sahaba were also munafiqs.....did Prophet get them killed?

If ...yes pls quote....

If no .....why ? If you can reply.

So I repeat : all those reasons for which Prophet tolerated Munafiqs ...Hz. Ali also tolerated them.

wassalam

[bint e zahra]

to phir sharib sahab shia kiun nahi tolerate kerte munafiqon ko jub rasool SAW ne or hazrat ali AS ne un ko na sirf tolerate kia bulke un ko zuban se bhi kabhi bura na kaha to phir hamare liyea ye hukam kis hadees me utra ha ya ayet me k hamare nabi or hamare imam to tabara na karen lakin hum zaroor karen

[sharib]

to phir sharib sahab shia kiun nahi tolerate kerte munafiqon ko jub rasool SAW ne or hazrat ali AS ne un ko na sirf tolerate kia bulke un ko zuban se bhi kabhi bura na kaha to phir hamare liyea ye hukam kis hadees me utra ha ya ayet me k hamare nabi or hamare imam to tabara na karen lakin hum zaroor karen

Salam ,

Kis ne kaha ke Shia tolerate nahin karte ....karte to hain . Haan accept nahin karte ke woh log legitimate Khalifa-e Rasool theiy ya LEGITIMATE naib-e rasool thiey.

They were khailfas by usurpation.....but not in real sense. If you go to historical events after Prophet,then they assumed the charge of Khilafat in a highly controversial maaner .

Hz. Ali always kept alive the issue of their illegitimacy on khilafat .

This was the stand of Hz. Ali ,so is the stand of Shias.

We also show our dissociation from them] and keeep that issue alive in the interest of Islam.

This is desirable as per the Islamic teachings.

We are taught to dissociate ourselves from Iblees....and iblees sifat people.

Quran says lanat on Shaitan.

Wassalam

[bint e zahra]

salaam

Mr.sharib thank u very much for ur quite satisfactory reply .

I want to ask u some very important questions with the same hope ,questions are as under

1-As we are well aware of it that ,khalifa 2 Umar khitab had made almost 54 very important changes in the matters of shariyat e islam ,on that point of time why hazrat ali did not raised the protest against these crimes.?

2-Silence and quitness of hazrat ali shows his agreement of those changes ?

3- During the time of his own khilafat why hazrat ali not corrected the 54 above mentioned changes ?

wassalam

[sharib]

salaam

Mr.sharib thank u very much for ur quite satisfactory reply .

Welcome but you are not satisfied as I can see from your further questions.

NeverthelessI shall be happy to continue the dialogue till we agree or [disagree ]to part with grace on this issue.

I want to ask u some very important questions with the same hope ,questions are as under

1-As we are well aware of it that ,khalifa 2 Umar khitab had made almost 54 very important changes in the matters of shariyat e islam ,on that point of time why hazrat ali did not raised the protest against these crimes.?

You have yourself replied your question by saying that Umar changed the Shariat-e Islam.....mind it that :

Legislation in Islam is not allowed even by Prophet Muhammad......it is done by Allah and Allah alone...Prophets are the instruments to implement these legislations.

When a Prophet is not empowered to legislate where does Umar Stand ?

So any change brought by Umar in the Shariat is UNISLAMIC .... was/ is very well known to the "true muslims" and those who were" pseudo muslims" during the times of UMAR believed in his false legislations and followed him...and not the ones who were trure followers of Islam. So there was no need for Hz. Ali to correct the "followers of Shariat-e Umar".

Maula Ali was the leader of the faithfuls and none of the faithful followed Umar then nor is following him today.

For example those who followed Umar are still being penalised by standing hours together in the so called "taraweeh"...which brings no "sawab" as it is a bidaat.

Also...those who followed Umar are still divorcing their wives by saying three talaq in one stroke......and calling /treating their wives as Haram and then allow their wives to go for halala.......

Those who did not follow Umar are saved from these ignominies.

These are just a few wxamples.........the outcome of following Shariat-e UMAREE....

2-Silence and quitness of hazrat ali shows his agreement of those changes ?

The point is very well covered in above lines.

Silent and quiteness does not show agreement but indifference as it had nothing to do with Islam.....Quranic laws cannot be changed by any number f Umars and safety of Islamic laws is guarenteed by Allah......so Hz. Ali did not bother to nullify any of Umar`s misdeed in shariat.

When he became Khalifa ,he never offered TARAWEEH like Umar did .....this itself is a proof that he discarded such things.

3- During the time of his own khilafat why hazrat ali not corrected the 54 above mentioned changes ?

Again my intial lines contain the reply.

HZ. ALI`S BLANKET REFUSAL OF NOT ONLY UMAR BUT ABUBAKAR also.....came before the Ummah when he refused to become Khalifa after Umar...saying that he will not follow "sserat-e Shaikhain" .

What more historic refusal is required....

wassalam

[khakay batool]

salam,

hamarey khayal sey, Hazrat Ali[as] ka teeno khalifaaon ki Baiyat kerney sey inkaar hi, un ka munafiqon kay khilaaf talwar uthanay k baraber tha.

ws

[sharib]

Welcome but you are not satisfied as I can see from your further questions.

NeverthelessI shall be happy to continue the dialogue till we agree or [disagree ]to part with grace on this issue.

You have yourself replied your question by saying that Umar changed the Shariat-e Islam.....mind it that :

Legislation in Islam is not allowed even by Prophet Muhammad......it is done by Allah and Allah alone...Prophets are the instruments to implement these legislations.

When a Prophet is not empowered to legislate where does Umar Stand ?

So any change brought by Umar in the Shariat is UNISLAMIC .... was/ is very well known to the "true muslims" and those who were" pseudo muslims" during the times of UMAR believed in his false legislations and followed him...and not the ones who were trure followers of Islam. So there was no need for Hz. Ali to correct the "followers of Shariat-e Umar".

Maula Ali was the leader of the faithfuls and none of the faithful followed Umar then nor is following him today.

For example those who followed Umar are still being penalised by standing hours together in the so called "taraweeh"...which brings no "sawab" as it is a bidaat.

Also...those who followed Umar are still divorcing their wives by saying three talaq in one stroke......and calling /treating their wives as Haram and then allow their wives to go for halala.......

Those who did not follow Umar are saved from these ignominies.

These are just a few wxamples.........the outcome of following Shariat-e UMAREE....

The point is very well covered in above lines.

Silent and quiteness does not show agreement but indifference as it had nothing to do with Islam.....Quranic laws cannot be changed by any number f Umars and safety of Islamic laws is guarenteed by Allah......so Hz. Ali did not bother to nullify any of Umar`s misdeed in shariat.

When he became Khalifa ,he never offered TARAWEEH like Umar did .....this itself is a proof that he discarded such things.

Again my intial lines contain the reply.

HZ. ALI`S BLANKET REFUSAL OF NOT ONLY UMAR BUT ABUBAKAR also.....came before the Ummah when he refused to become Khalifa after Umar...saying that he will not follow "sserat-e Shaikhain" .

What more historic refusal is required....

wassalam

Salam Bint-e Zahra ,

Do you want more time to to respond to my rejoinder or you are satisfied with the points brought in ?

wassalam

[Syed Demanding]

agar pehle teen khalifa munafiq the to hazrat ali ne un k khifaf jung kiun nahi ki jub k quran me soorah toba ki ayet no 73 me ha k munafiqon or mushrikon se jung karo or in per sakhti karo to phir hazrat ali ne in k khilaf talwar kiun nahi uttai

to phir sharib sahab shia kiun nahi tolerate kerte munafiqon ko jub rasool SAW ne or hazrat ali AS ne un ko na sirf tolerate kia bulke un ko zuban se bhi kabhi bura na kaha to phir hamare liyea ye hukam kis hadees me utra ha ya ayet me k hamare nabi or hamare imam to tabara na karen lakin hum zaroor karen

salaam

Mr.sharib thank u very much for ur quite satisfactory reply .

I want to ask u some very important questions with the same hope ,questions are as under

1-As we are well aware of it that ,khalifa 2 Umar khitab had made almost 54 very important changes in the matters of shariyat e islam ,on that point of time why hazrat ali did not raised the protest against these crimes.?

2-Silence and quitness of hazrat ali shows his agreement of those changes ?

3- During the time of his own khilafat why hazrat ali not corrected the 54 above mentioned changes ?

wassalam

..

.

.

Religion: Islam Shia (Usooli)

.

.

:!!!: :!!!: :!!!:

[bint e zahra]

Salaam

As a matter of fact, Ur all replies are excellent and totally satisfactory ,but my constant curiosity about the issues ,not only to gain knowledge but also to make my self capable to coop up the existing enemies of Muhammad o ale Muhammad,and i m sure people continuously gain and improve their knowledge through ur capabilities.

wasalaaam

[sharib]

Salaam

As a matter of fact, Ur all replies are excellent and totally satisfactory ,but my constant curiosity about the issues ,not only to gain knowledge but also to make my self capable to coop up the existing enemies of Muhammad o ale Muhammad,and i m sure people continuously gain and improve their knowledge through ur capabilities.

wasalaaam

Salam and shukria.

All praises are for Allah and durood to Muhammad wa Aale Muhammad.

Your further queries are also welcome.

There is no substitute for discussions in such matters, if one is open to understand and learn......but the same method is futile when one resorts to it only for the sake of discussion with a prejudiced mind-set. I am happy that you want understand and learn.

May Allah help u in quenchimng your thirst regarding Muhammad wa aal-e Muhammad.

wassalam

[sharib]

Salam ,

The munafiqs have been equated with Shaitan in Quran. I am not vividly remembering that ayat.

Can any friend quote the proper ayat?

Then the matter becomes more clear..

....why Shias send lanat on munafiqs...

Also it becomes quranically justified as quran prescribes lanat on Shaitan..... i,e on munafiqs also..

wassalam.

[sharib]

Salam ,

I could recollect that that ayat in which Munafiqs are equated with Shaitan, kindly see :

"(15) (And the hypocrites are) on the likeness of the devil when he telleth man to disbelieve, then, when he disbelieveth saith: Lo! I am quit of thee. Lo! I fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.[ AL-HASHR]

"ßóãóËóáö ٱáÔøóíۡØóÜٰäö ÅöÐۡ ÞóÇáó áöáۡÅöäÓóÜٰäö ٱڪۡÝõÑۡ ÝóáóãøóÇ ßóÝóÑó ÞóÇáó Åöäøöì ÈóÑöìٓÁñ۬ ãøöäßó Åöäøöìٓ ÃóÎóÇÝõ ٱááøóåó ÑóÈøó

wassalam

[Aly ReZa]

Al hamdullilah

Fantastic debate

May Allah give u reward for all your efforts

[Shabbir Bhai]

baat ko achhi tarah ghuma diya he tum ne

but ek bat batao

khilafat ka ma'amla duniyawi kese ho gaya ?

agar ye duniawi ma'amla hotat to yazeed ke khilaf jung na hoti

[talib e ilm]

1-As we are well aware of it that ,khalifa 2 Umar khitab had made almost 54 very important changes in the matters of shariyat e islam ,

 

Will u pls provide me the link of 54 Important Changes which he made ?

[talib e ilm]

Assalam o Alikum Bro Sharib you made Some Excellent answers

 

But some of your comments need some clarification, let me share it with you in our native language which is more comfortable for me, if you don't mind..

 

 

So any change brought by Umar in the Shariat is UNISLAMIC .... was/ is very well known to the "true muslims" and those who were" pseudo muslims" during the times of UMAR believed in his false legislations and followed him...and not the ones who were trure followers of Islam. So there was no need for Hz. Ali to correct the "followers of Shariat-e Umar".

Maula Ali was the leader of the faithfuls and none of the faithful followed Umar then nor is following him today.

 

Edited November 22, 2014 by talib e ilm

[talib e ilm]

 کیوں بلا تفریق سب نے سمجھوتا کر لیا ؟؟ اور خاموشی اختیار کر لی ؟ کیونکہ ولایت کی تفسیر غلط کی گئی، مثلاًً یہ نظریہ کہ ولایت کا تعلق  صرف معنوی عقیدہ سے ہے  اورحکومت اور رہبری سے اس کا کوئی تعلق نہیں ہے، یعنی امام صرف معنوی اور قلبی پیشوہ ہیں حکومت کے اختیارات انکے پاس ہونا ضروری نہیں، اور عوام ظاہر بین ہوتے ہیں، انہیوں نے دیکھا خلیفہ جو بھی ہو ہمارے امور تو چل رہے ہیں، ہمارے کاروبار تو چل رہے ہیں، مسجد تو آباد ہے، رسومات پر پابندی نہیں ہے اب کیا فرق پڑھتا ہے کہ خلیفہ یہ بنے یا وہ۔۔۔ لہذا بڑی آسانی سے اس فیصلے کو قبول کر لیا گیا۔۔۔

 

رسول ﷺ کوغدیر کے موقع پر یہی خوف تھا کہ امت کو ولایت کا معنی ہی سمجھ نہیں آئے گا یہ ولایت کا معنی دوست کریں گے۔۔۔ اسی خوف کی وجہ سے اللہ نے قرآن مجید میں فرمایا تھا آپ کو جو پیغام کہا گیا ہےاسے پہنچا دیں اور خوفزدہ نہ ہوں

اس دور میں بھی لوگوں نے بخن بخن (واہ واہ) کیا تھا اور آج تک ولایت کو صرف واہ واہ ہی مل رہی ہے۔۔۔