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In the Name of God بسم الله

please explain me

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shoelace

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(bismillah)

(salam)

yesterday i was been talking to one of my non-muslim friend and he asked me a weird question which i was not able to explain....basically he asked me every thing which is been haraam in ISLAM has a reason for example Alcohol,Zina,narcotics etc because its scientifically proved it bad for health,but when it comes to masturbution which is also haraam in islaam but does not coincide with science coz every sexologist advice its not bad to masturbate.please explain me what shud i reply to my friend.

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The brother above hit the nail on the head. :)

Its a simple process when you start:

Masturbation > excessive masturbation > fornication (masturbation is also considered as a form of fornication as it is) > Even worse loathesome acts - the array of problems which will come after that will be endless.

a foot note, you ever seen one of those criminal documentaries? rapists/phedophelias in particular have a lot of adult material in their belongings, you can be that same beast once you decide to go down that line.

Sorry to have come down serious on this, but it has to be said so that you know full well why you have and other people have to avoid it. I pray to Allah s.w.t to increase your and everyone else's imaan. :)

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

The brother above hit the nail on the head. :)

Its a simple process when you start:

Masturbation > excessive masturbation > fornication (masturbation is also considered as a form of fornication as it is) > Even worse loathesome acts - the array of problems which will come after that will be endless.

a foot note, you ever seen one of those criminal documentaries? rapists/phedophelias in particular have a lot of adult material in their belongings, you can be that same beast once you decide to go down that line.

Sorry to have come down serious on this, but it has to be said so that you know full well why you have and other people have to avoid it. I pray to Allah s.w.t to increase your and everyone else's imaan. :)

When if

Masturbation>excessive masturbation>marriage>healthy outlet for sexual desires? Are you trying to tell me all men who masturbate end up fornicating? Are you suggesting that 99% of the men on shiachat do not masturbate?

No one who studies these psychopaths will suggest that it was masturbation that triggered them. Most men masturbate and do not end up killing or raping but use it as a healthy outlet for natural sexual desires when they are unable to fulfill them otherwise.

Anyway the OP asked about the permissibility of masturbation, not pornography (or violent/child porn as your post seems to imply).

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When if

Masturbation>excessive masturbation>marriage>healthy outlet for sexual desires? Are you trying to tell me all men who masturbate end up fornicating? Are you suggesting that 99% of the men on shiachat do not masturbate?

No one who studies these psychopaths will suggest that it was masturbation that triggered them. Most men masturbate and do not end up killing or raping but use it as a healthy outlet for natural sexual desires when they are unable to fulfill them otherwise.

Anyway the OP asked about the permissibility of masturbation, not pornography (or violent/child porn as your post seems to imply).

This I would call hitting the nail right on the damn head.

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ZAHRATUL PUT IT NICELY

lmaooaoa WHETHER EXCESSIVE MASTURBATION IS THE GREATEST OF SINS IS ANOTHER MATTER, refer to your marja i am sure this is extensively the topic of hot debate in those circles

masturbation can lead to excessive masturbation YESSS

there is no evidence to suggest that any of this leads to fornication lmao

actually its completely on the contrary, all the evidence suggests that masturbation makes it a lot easier to prevent oneself from fornicating and relieves stress

having said that, masturbation itself can have a lot of negative mental/addiction type side effects

DONT GO OMG ITS CUZ U PROLLY MASTURBATE YOU PERVERT : O : O ON ME

Just cuz I go out of my way to stop you khajures from going overboard with chaining up every irrelevant practice that leads to zina in ur eyes

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When if

Masturbation>excessive masturbation>marriage>healthy outlet for sexual desires? Are you trying to tell me all men who masturbate end up fornicating? Are you suggesting that 99% of the men on shiachat do not masturbate?

No one who studies these psychopaths will suggest that it was masturbation that triggered them. Most men masturbate and do not end up killing or raping but use it as a healthy outlet for natural sexual desires when they are unable to fulfill them otherwise.

Anyway the OP asked about the permissibility of masturbation, not pornography (or violent/child porn as your post seems to imply).

im very very very curious where you got the highly "attractive" fact that most men masturbate from?

im disturbed by your "healthy outlet" comment. :wacko:LOLLL healthy outlet yesss, it truly has to be healthy to rub urself far and wide till u climax. and ppl wonder why mutah is halal? god has made it halal to have sex without the permanent marriage, so they are ALWAYS able to fullfil their desires if they want to. no excuses!!!

masturbation is haram, it is a sin, and even if every single male person on shiachat was to masturbate it does not make it ANY less haram. i cant fathom why ur using shiachat males as example. its funny.

obsssssss i just saw the brothers only. im so sorry.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

im very very very curious where you got the highly "attractive" fact that most men masturbate from?

im disturbed by your "healthy outlet" comment. :wacko:LOLLL healthy outlet yesss, it truly has to be healthy to rub urself far and wide till u climax. and ppl wonder why mutah is halal? god has made it halal to have sex without the permanent marriage, so they are ALWAYS able to fullfil their desires if they want to. no excuses!!!

masturbation is haram, it is a sin, and even if every single male person on shiachat was to masturbate it does not make it ANY less haram. i cant fathom why ur using shiachat males as example. its funny.

obsssssss i just saw the brothers only. im so sorry.

Its a pretty well known fact :huh: Yes, a lot of men masturbate because its a lot less hassle than finding a willing sexual partner or contracting mutah.

Hm, I used the example to address the concern about masturbation leading to rape and pedophilia, a conclusion I could not seem to follow. It seems a lot more outlandish than my claim of "most men masturbate."

Address the arguments rather than being horrified someone suggested something other than what has been ingrained in our heads.

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Tell your friend, things in Islam that are haram, need not have any specific reason, they are simply haram because Allah (swt) has ordained it such, we may or may not know the wisdom behind it.

For some things (such as alcohol and gambling) the reasons are rather obvious, for others, not so much. And honestly this topic comes up every 2 weeks lol, so over it.

Edited by Hassan2jz
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(salam),

Oh boy... you need to go around SC, a bit more, lol.

A topic was pinned very recently about this, having the following document:

http://docs.google.com/View?id=df8cxx5g_13t2sd4pc6

Scroll down and read the sub-headings; 'Benefits', 'Are the benefits really of any use?' and 'Harms'.

(wasalam)

Basim Ali Jafri

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Are you suggesting that 99% of the men on shiachat do not masturbate?

AFAIK

In Islam

1. You can't make false allegations

2. You can't *normalise* any haram behaviour based on what people may or may not do (regardless of how many of them may or may not do it)

3. What people do in private is between them and God and it's none of your business

Hope this helps.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

AFAIK

In Islam

1. You can't make false allegations

2. You can't *normalise* any haram behaviour based on what people may or may not do (regardless of how many of them may or may not do it)

3. What people do in private is between them and God and it's none of your business

Hope this helps.

It doesn't.

1) It is not like I said "so and so does this and I know this for a fact.." which would be an allegation worthy of reproach. I made a statement about men based on studies and realities of human behavior.

2) I did not normalize it or suggest that because men on this forum engage in a certain action it must be halal. I was referencing to a specific claim someone made about pedophilia and rape. I am tired of repeating myself because people latch on to a statement without reading it in context.

3) That is really funny given the topic of this thread (and almost every other thread on this forum). Spare me the self righteous outrage.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
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Tell your friend, things in Islam that are haram, need not have any specific reason, they are simply haram because Allah (swt) has ordained it such, we may or may not know the wisdom behind it.

For some things (such as alcohol and gambling) the reasons are rather obvious, for others, not so much. And honestly this topic comes up every 2 weeks lol, so over it.

Thats not true every thing haraam in ISLAAM has some specific reason.

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Its a pretty well known fact :huh: Yes, a lot of men masturbate because its a lot less hassle than finding a willing sexual partner or contracting mutah.

Hm, I used the example to address the concern about masturbation leading to rape and pedophilia, a conclusion I could not seem to follow. It seems a lot more outlandish than my claim of "most men masturbate."

Address the arguments rather than being horrified someone suggested something other than what has been ingrained in our heads.

i really do not get what is up with ppl on this site? where is all the bitterness and attitude coming from? its like ppl are waiting to jump up someones throat.

no it is not a well known fact. its new to me i have never heard that before.

even if not haram, self pleasuring is low. finding a sexual partner is not a hassle. for men, you have muslims, christians, jews, big of a variety to chooose from, for females u have muslim men, all we as females know men dont turn the offer down. so the excuse about the hassle which isnt even a legitimate excuse btw can be crossed out.

Excessive masturbation? Leading to fornication? Erm, any such filth is "excessive" and in itself, it _is_ a type of fornication.

i dont know why but i cannot rate you. for that statement u deserve 10++ rating.

Thats not true every thing haraam in ISLAAM has some specific reason.

yes but not all are known to us. our comprehension is limited.

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Thats not true every thing haraam in ISLAAM has some specific reason.

yes but not all are known to us. our comprehension is limited.

See above for clarification of my point.

For example, to say Pork is forbidden because it is dirty is a common but invalid and easily refuted argument (with reference to the cleanliness of Chickens for example.)

In which case, we settle with, it is Haram because Allah (swt) said so, we do not fully know the wisdom behind it perhaps.

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even if not haram, self pleasuring is low.

no it is not a well known fact. its new to me i have never heard that before.

Let's be honest. Who, with a slightest of sex drive, has in their whole life never experimented with their bodies in this way, whether 'brothers' or 'sisters'? It is your body and it is your privacy. Great if you can find a partner and do it halal way but it takes ages after reaching physical maturity before you can actually get to fulfill the desires. What is the way out?

There is also a difference, if I may point out, in being a habitual masturbator and have never pleasured yourself.

I don't know about females but if you come across guys who claim that they have never done it, then 99.9% chances are that they are lying.

finding a sexual partner is not a hassle. for men, you have muslims, christians, jews, big of a variety to chooose from, for females u have muslim men, all we as females know men dont turn the offer down. so the excuse about the hassle which isnt even a legitimate excuse btw can be crossed out.

Easier said than done.

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i really do not get what is up with ppl on this site? where is all the bitterness and attitude coming from? its like ppl are waiting to jump up someones throat.

Simply put, it is easier to be critical than correct. Other than Basim Ali, no one bothered relating to scientific facts. If the excuse is that we're ordinary people, or having little to do with science, what is the excuse in claiming/implying to have authentic knowledge in Islaam? Relating facts from both science and religion is not an ordinary responsibility, however, appealing to logic is a normal response coming from any normal person because reason is basic human nature. That bitterness and attitude is a complex set of emotions. Emotion is also human nature though negativity is a sign of a weak mind. If reason was not the base of any intelligent discussion or debate, why bother rationalising our claims? Wouldn't it be easier if everyone said "it's my personal opinion?" Otherwise why not say "it's a fact?" It shouldn't be a problem proving what we already know for certain, but it would be a problem to rasionalise the views of others we've never even met based on our regard or love for them, if not for ourselves. They may be right, but this method of approaching the truth isn't. Religion and science may always be in agreement, but scholars and scientists may not.

yes but not all are known to us. our comprehension is limited.

True. However, if you tell someone that the speed of light is constant regardless of perspective, they might not take you seriously because it's not even logical, unless you can explain that space and time are relative. If you tell someone that you believe earth is the centre of the universe because it makes more sense, they might try to explain to you that earth revolves around the sun relying on accumulative knowledge as proof. That knowledge was not always available for us thoughout history, but it doesn't mean truth or mankind changed. The facts and methods that lead to these discoveries are universal and timeless, and so is reason. The same can be said of any approach concerning the nature of truth.

Let's be honest. Who, with a slightest of sex drive, has in their whole life never experimented with their bodies in this way, whether 'brothers' or 'sisters'? It is your body and it is your privacy. Great if you can find a partner and do it halal way but it takes ages after reaching physical maturity before you can actually get to fulfill the desires. What is the way out?

There is also a difference, if I may point out, in being a habitual masturbator and have never pleasured yourself.

I don't know about females but if you come across guys who claim that they have never done it, then 99.9% chances are that they are lying.

I disagree. I believe our way of thinking affects our judgment. People are not that simple.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

i really do not get what is up with ppl on this site? where is all the bitterness and attitude coming from? its like ppl are waiting to jump up someones throat.

no it is not a well known fact. its new to me i have never heard that before.

even if not haram, self pleasuring is low. finding a sexual partner is not a hassle. for men, you have muslims, christians, jews, big of a variety to chooose from, for females u have muslim men, all we as females know men dont turn the offer down. so the excuse about the hassle which isnt even a legitimate excuse btw can be crossed out.

i dont know why but i cannot rate you. for that statement u deserve 10++ rating.

yes but not all are known to us. our comprehension is limited.

First, let me apologize if my response came across as bitter or if I seemed to have an "attitude" as this was not my intention. I felt as though you had taken me out of context and even so it was not my intention to be belligerent or short with you.

Again, with my point about it being a "hassle," I did not mean to say that we are unable to find sexual partners, but that it is much easier for a male to take care of his own needs rather than taking on the responsibilities of being a husband. As casual as mutah has become these days (something that has become painfully obvious if one reads 99% of the threads), it still has its responsibilities and its implications for the individuals involved in it.

I think that when two people love each other and have sex to complete each other physically this is the ideal situation, however we know that sex does not always involve emotions. We contract mutah to fulfill our physical needs (it does not have to have another purpose Islamically), since we do it to provide a sexual release.. I guess my issue is why you would call masturbation "low" when it fulfills the exact same end as mutah?

I agree that we cannot comprehend everything and that if we spent our entire lives analyzing the trivial details we would not be able to live happy, fulfilling lives.. which is why religion is so essential to our well being. However, I think this issue does need analyzing because of its relevance.

I just want to reiterate that I apologize for any perceived attitude. I like a lot of your posts and it was never my intention to be rude!

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
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Guest SignOfDawn

I said a very simple thing.

Yet it's not a fact, but a conjecture implied by personal experience and observation. Not everyone responds to temptation the same. However, if that was the case, everyone would be vulnerable to say food addiction. Most addictions are attempts to satisfy emotional, rather than physical or sexual, needs by external means. Addiction is simply abnormal.

Again, with my point about it being a "hassle," I did not mean to say that we are unable to find sexual partners, but that it is much easier for a male to take care of his own needs rather than taking on the responsibilities of being a husband. As casual as mutah has become these days (something that has become painfully obvious if one reads 99% of the threads), it still has its responsibilities and its implications for the individuals involved in it.

I'm sure it would be painful for many of us to take that as a fact. However, these few threads concerning a few people no matter how relatively many don't speak for the most in Shiachat who have nothing to do with it let alone the "real" world. The truly painful facts are obvious only to a few. "Not knowing is unfortunate; not knowing that we don't know is tragic."

Edited by SignOfDawn
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Guest Zahratul_Islam

I'm sure it would be painful for many of us to take that as a fact. However, these few threads concerning a few people no matter how relatively many don't speak for the most in Shiachat who have nothing to do with it let alone the "real" world. The truly painful facts are obvious only to a few. "Not knowing is unfortunate; not knowing that we don't know is tragic.

I am not saying it is a fact and I completely agree that it may very well be a handful of individuals (or a great number of individuals). My point was that whether or not it is taken seriously by members of this board, it does have heavy implications.

I don't want to get into how representative shiachat is of the shia community because I think this is a huge digression from the question I asked.

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