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Asim_Abbas

Umar ibn Ali, Abu Bakr, Abu Bakr ibn Hasan ibn Ali

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Assalam o Alekum

-Uthman ibn Ali, brother of Hazrat Abbas

-Abu Bakr ibn Ali

-Abu Bakr ibn Hasan ibn Ali

All were martyred in Kerbala, right? But why aren't they mentioned in our Majalis?

Ya Ali a.s Madad.

Pls help. :)

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Assalam o Alekum

-Uthman ibn Ali, brother of Hazrat Abbas

-Abu Bakr ibn Ali

-Abu Bakr ibn Hasan ibn Ali

All were martyred in Kerbala, right? But why aren't they mentioned in our Majalis?

Ya Ali a.s Madad.

Pls help. :)

How many of the other 72 martyrs are mentioned? The only ones in Majalis that I have heard of (besides the Bani Hashim) are a handful. In general they just aren't brought up for whatever reason.

I'm curious as to the reason why you would ask this? Its obvious that you are asking because of their names. Are you meaning to infer that they are not mentioned because of that?

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How many of the other 72 martyrs are mentioned? The only ones in Majalis that I have heard of (besides the Bani Hashim) are a handful. In general they just aren't brought up for whatever reason.

I'm curious as to the reason why you would ask this? Its obvious that you are asking because of their names. Are you meaning to infer that they are not mentioned because of that?

sallam,

I have no idea why they were not mentioned.

But i think thats what i am thinking, it is because of their names( i could be very wrong).

But Allah knows best.

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Sallamun Alaykum

i have heared them mentioned at least uthman and i think just one of the abubakrs but yeh they arent mentioned much same as many of the other comapnions unfortunatly.

ws wr wb

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Is it just because of their names?

How many of the other 72 martyrs are mentioned? The only ones in Majalis that I have heard of (besides the Bani Hashim) are a handful. In general they just aren't brought up for whatever reason.

I'm curious as to the reason why you would ask this? Its obvious that you are asking because of their names. Are you meaning to infer that they are not mentioned because of that?

Yes I am asking because of their names.

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Sallamun Alaykum

bro take it from me and ive had years of experience with 1000s of lectures in diffarant languages ive heared their names many times although i dont remember bin who or what but uthman and abubakr (as) are mentioned more than some other companions of Imam Hussain (as) that were martyred with him although uthman is mentioned much more as i recall than abubakr remember brother abubakr means father of bakr it is not stricktly a name so his name could be diffarant anyway bro if your just asking for curiosity i answered u but if your asking out of proving something then logicly u can never do so bcz u would have to prove the reason behind every person not mentioning the name otherwise the same argument can be used against anyone suffice it to say from my side i have heared their names in majalis usually in arabic lectures more than other unfortunatly and im saying unfortunatly bcz we need to also see all the companions but as u know lecture times are very little so its hard to talk about everyone as they say for every companion u would need to write a book.

ws wr wb.

Edited by mo87_11014

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Assalam o Alekum

-Uthman ibn Ali, brother of Hazrat Abbas

-Abu Bakr ibn Ali

-Abu Bakr ibn Hasan ibn Ali

All were martyred in Kerbala, right? But why aren't they mentioned in our Majalis?

Ya Ali a.s Madad.

Pls help. :)

They aren't mentioned for political madhabi reasons :)

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Salaam everyone,

I've read an article in refutation to the point that Imam Ali (as) named his son Abu Bakr etc because they were common names at the time.

That doesn't seem convincing. What is the Shia explanation?

WaSalaam.

Hassan.

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Sallamun Alaykum

as i have asked there are diffarances of opinion on the name calling of omar i think it was i forgot really it was a long time ago but our imam highlightes to us that the reason uthman was called uthman was bcz of an uncle which Imam Ali (as) was fond of as for abu bakr his son is not called abu bakr yes he is known as abubakr but his name was diffarant sorry for the half baked answer this issue was discussed a long time ago but what i caan say with certainty to u is that even if it is accepted which mostly is that the names are so and so u would have to prove it was bcz of them and even if u prove it this would contradict the mutawatir hadiths which is the truth so the question for a shia should be why did Imam Ali (as) call his sons so when he clearly knows that they are bad people that is if it is proven that he called him bcz of that i know its like a half baked answer bcz i discussed and looked into this a long time ago from my side i never found any evidance that he called them so bcz he wanted to be reminded of these people or did it for this people but maybe there is an ahad hadith out there although i doubt it all in all we should prove it first to ourselves then we can ask why and from a shia percpective the question wouldnt be if the imam truly hated them why would he call his sons names rather the question would be why would he call them as such when he clearly hated them.

also i would like to add tawazun if your joking thats ok :) but if u were serious be careful of what u say for u will be accountable to answer to every lecturer or writer that u accused of being biased in this regard remember every atoms weight is mesured although accusation makes u accountable to the accused as well as Allah (AW).

sorry bro i know i didnt explain the issue well inshallah i can brush up on the issue in the future.

ws wr wb

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See I don't see a problem with the actual names, what I don't get is, why would Imam Ali (a.s) name his sons Abu Bakr and Uthman if they were truly enemies? Because the names were common? Assuming they were, did Imam Ali (as) know that his position would be usurped? I have heard that he knew of his death in a Majlis before, I remember the Shiekh saying someone asked Imam Ali (as) why he had not come to colour his beard and he replied, that it would be coloured with something different (his blood)? Thus the only way to reconcile this would be to: a) Agree the names were common B) Agree that Imam Ali (as) did not know that his position would be usurped and family mistreated etc.

Anybody can explain this?

Edited by Hassan2jz

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two proofs that ensure that this was a lie

i mean the naming of omar and abu baker!!!

first thing is this speech:

ÝÝí ( ÊÞÑíÈ ÇáãÚÇÑÝ - ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 52 ) - äÞáÇ Úä ÊÇÑíÎ ÇáËÞÝí ) : ( ÐßÑ ÇáËÞÝí Ýí ÊÇÑíÎå ¡ Úä åÈíÑÉ Èä ãÑíã ¡ ÞÇá : ßäøÇ ÌáæÓÇð ÚäÏ Úáí (Ú) ¡ ÝÏÚÇ ÅÈäå ÚËãÇä ¡ ÝÞÇá áå : íÇ ÚËãÇä ¡ Ëãø ÞÇá : Åäí áã ÃÓãøå ÈÅÓã ÚËãÇä ........ ¡ ÅäøãÇ ÓãøíÊå ÈÅÓã ÚËãÇä Èä ãÙÚæä ).

- æÝí ÒíÇÑÉ ÇáäÇÍíÉ ÇáãÞÏÓÉ : ( ÇáÓáÇã Úáì ÚËãÇä ÅÈä ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä Óãíø ÚËãÇä Èä ãÙÚæä ) ¡ ÑÇÌÚ : ( ÈÍÇÑ ÇáÃäæÇÑ - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 101 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 270 ) - äÞáÇ Úä ÇáÅÞÈÇá æãÒÇÑ ÇáãÝíÏ ).

- æÑæí Ü ÃíÖÇð Ü Úä Úáíø (Ú) Ãäøå ÞÇá : ( ÅäøãÇ ÓãøíÊå ÈÅÓã ÃÎí ÚËãÇä Èä ãÙÚæä ) ¡ ÑÇÌÚ : ( ãÞÇÊá ÇáØÇáÈííä - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 58 ) ¡ æÚäå ÈÍÇÑ ÇáÃäæÇÑ - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 45 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 38 ).

which proves that he would never name his child as the name of one of his enemies...so how come you believe that his second child was named as omar or othman for god's sake?

here is the second proof which shows that he named his son as mohammad not omar...

Åä ÈÚÖ ÇáØæÇÆÝ ÊÓãíå ÚãÑÇä ¡ Èá åæ ÚãÑ ÇáÃØÑÝ .ßÐáß ÃÌÏ ÈÚÖ ÇáÃÓãÇÁ ¡ ÇáÊí ÃäÝÑÏ ÈåÇ ÕÇÍÈ ÇáãÎØæØÉ ¡ æáßä äÖÚåÇ ßãÇ åí .

åæ ÃÈæ ÇáÞÇÓã ÚãÑ ÇáÃØÑÝ Èä Úáì Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ (Ú) æáÏ ÊæÃãÇ áÃÎÊå ÑÞíÉ ¡ æßÇä ÃÎÑ ãä æáÏ ãä Èäí Úáí ãä ÇáÐßæÑ ¡ Ããå ÇáÕåÈÇÁ ÇáÊÛáÈíå æåí Ãã ÍÈíÈ ÈäÊ ÚÈÇÏ Èä ÑÈíÚÉ Èä ÈÌíÑ Èä ÇáÚÈÏ Èä ÚáÞãÉ ¡ ãä ÓÈí ÇáíãÇãÉ æÞíá ãä ÓÈí ÎÇáÏ ÃÈä ÇáæáíÏ ãä (Úíä ÇáÊãÑ ) ¡ ÃÔÊÑÇåÇ Úáí Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ (Ú) Ãí ÇÚÊÞåÇ (2)

ãÑÇÞÏ ÇáãÚÇÑÝ – ãÍãÏ ÍÑÒ ÇáÏíä Ì2 Õ107 .

which one of yall didn't know that each mohammad may be named as abolkasem???

suspecious,right?

then who named him as omar?

.æÞÇá ÇÈä ÇáÒÈíÑ Åä ÇáÎáíÝÉ ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ åæ ÇáÐí ÓãÇå .

wow wow...omar who named him...why?

because at that time(during the omarian regime) omar changed the names of ali and mohammad some books said even abdulla into omar!!!!

seems that he likes himself too much!!!

so...the real name according to the nickname maybe mohammad...wallahu aalam...

the abobaker was a nickname not a name...because of the same rule(changing names during omar's regime)... .

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by the way

abubaker whom you say that he's bin ali a.s was named as mohammad al azghar...they(omarian regime)called him as abobaker ...

some people said that to make diffrences between him and mohammad bin hanafiyah

æÃÈæ ÈßÑ ÅäãÇ ÇÓãå (ãÍãÏ ÇáÃÕÛÑ) áÃä ÇÈä ÇáÍäÝíÉ åæ ÇáÃßÈÑ æåÐå ßäíÉ æáíÓÊ ÇÓã

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Assalam o Alekum

-Uthman ibn Ali, brother of Hazrat Abbas

-Abu Bakr ibn Ali

-Abu Bakr ibn Hasan ibn Ali

All were martyred in Kerbala, right? But why aren't they mentioned in our Majalis?

Ya Ali a.s Madad.

Pls help. :)

Umar and Abu bakr ibn ali are fabrication. They dont exist, its just a wahhaby propaganda. But Uthman do exist.

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