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In the Name of God بسم الله

Hundreds of thousands defy US, Mousavi alliance.

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  • Veteran Member

I don't understand the logic behind these anti-government demonstrations anymore?

They were chanting slogans against 'election results'............... now Ahmadinejad is the president and it doesn't matter how long and how often they demonstrate, the president stays till he is done with his 5 years term. There must be something else behind these excuses to turn every single event to whatever they wish and demonstrate against the government of Ahmadinejad. There must be some investigations to find out the true nature of these -little-groups, waiting for any moment to cause chaos and to create mistrust in the country.

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I don't understand the logic behind these anti-government demonstrations anymore?

They were chanting slogans against 'election results'............... now Ahmadinejad is the president and it doesn't matter how long and how often they demonstrate, the president stays till he is done with his 5 years term. There must be something else behind these excuses to turn every single event to whatever they wish and demonstrate against the government of Ahmadinejad. There must be some investigations to find out the true nature of these -little-groups, waiting for any moment to cause chaos and to create mistrust in the country.

I'd guess most of the people, in this minority of anti-government protesting people, are simply being used because they are angry the candidate they supported (Mousavi) lost in the free election. Then you have the people leading these individuals, these ringleaders are likely in contact with the Zionists and American CIA and groups like the MKO(la) and Jundallah(la).

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent
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  • Advanced Member

I don't understand the logic behind these anti-government demonstrations anymore?

They were chanting slogans against 'election results'............... now Ahmadinejad is the president and it doesn't matter how long and how often they demonstrate, the president stays till he is done with his 5 years term. There must be something else behind these excuses to turn every single event to whatever they wish and demonstrate against the government of Ahmadinejad. There must be some investigations to find out the true nature of these -little-groups, waiting for any moment to cause chaos and to create mistrust in the country.

(salam)

I know that many people would like/prefer to believe that they are external nefarious forces at play that causes people to come out and protest (And I do mean from both sides).

And I doubt anyone would believe me. But here is my take on this issue.

**They are here because they are the opposition.

If tomorrow the hardliners/conservatives came chanting "Death to the Easter Bunny", The Reformist/MTV loving/tree huggers will demonstrate and chant "Love live the Easter Bunny".

As for the excuses or intentions, do you remember a person from the reformist camp who said (and I am rephrasing here) "We are going to make sure we will continue to protest/demonstrate and show our opposition to the government".

Edited by Zareen
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  • Basic Members
Then you have the people leading these individuals, these ringleaders are likely in contact with the Zionists and American CIA and groups like the MKO(la) and Jundallah(la).

Um, I know this might seem oblivious to you....but Jundallah does not believe in elections anyways.

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  • Veteran Member

I'd guess most of the people, in this minority of anti-government protesting people, are simply being used because they are angry the candidate they supported (Mousavi) lost in the free election.

It doesn't seem to be the way you describe. I believe a very small group of oppositions (those who oppose the whole Islamic establishment, religion and oppose any progress in Iran, those in exile) were waiting for such a moment to see Iranians turning against each others...like the case of (Rafsanjani vs Khamenei ..etc..).. They are happy that Mousavi lost so now they can bring a huge crowd behind them in saying they want reform and more freedom/democracy.

MKO(la) and Jundallah(la).

Now, this is a national concern.. the smuggler/takfiri anti Shia Sunni group and the communist-terrorist MKO... the government's responsibility at this point is to single-out these elements, introduce them to the society, make sure no body mixes with them under one banner, the so called "democracy, reform, anti-Ahmadinejad or pro-Khatami". Because, those terrorist groups never believe in any of these, the only time they can make it to current Iranian politics inside the country is to fool others and create a common ground and common goal with those who are able to 'do politics' under current Iranian Constitution.

If tomorrow the hardliners/conservatives came chanting "Death to the Easter Bunny", The Reformist/MTV loving/tree huggers will demonstrate and chant "Love live the Easter Bunny".

I agree. At this point the government should not act as 'the opposition to the opposition'. Throwing some slogans in an aim to separate themselves from the opposition. Because, there is 2 kinds of opposition, a small minorities, who are indeed puppets, opportunists, leftists, anti-Islam or some cases anti-Iran......and a majority of the opposition is as you described just some people coming from different class of the society chanting anything that is opposing the current "government of Ahmadinejad". As I mentioned earlier, the government should respond to the calls of the majority in a way not hurt the principles and to separate the 'good opposition from the bad oppositions/trouble makers'.

Um, I know this might seem oblivious to you....but Jundallah does not believe in elections anyways.

Jundullah does not believe in elections, true, but they believe in creating 'chaos, bloodshed, corruption'. None of those in exile or even in Iran who protested in favor of Mousavi believed in Iranian election. They always claimed that it is the Supreme Leader who decides before hand who should be the candidates, they always said non of the candidates are qualified....and the elections are invalid...BUT, what happened? When Mousavi went to the street, you could see all of these groups in exile and in Iran were quick to rash to contradict their own claims and say, "The election this time was rigged", and "Mousavi was the winner" not Ahmadinejad. In other words, Khamenei did not pick his favorite candidates before hand, and Iranian elections in the past with no protests indeed were valid.

Jundullah before "June 12" election and protests claimed that, they are "fighting for the rights of Sunni Balochis". After the protests and somehow huge crowded chaos began to take shape in Iran, Jundullah changed his motto and reason for struggle in his interviews with Paki media, alarabiay ... that they are "fighting for democracy, equal rights, and wants regime change" and adding that they, "never want to see Shias being killed, but only the government officials". Perhaps, it wasn't a Jundullah mindset to have a U-turn, from speaking to killing Shias to making alliance with Shias against the government...it was the foreign guidance to include Jundullah to the network of oppositions and make the political-belt to over throw the regime.. Assassinations to be carried out by Salafi Kurds, suicide attacks and ambushes against SELECTIVE military targets and ranks (against those who are more loyal to Khamenei and gov.) by Jundullah.. and creating 'fetnah & unrest" in political, educational, and governmental institutions and media by MKO and other oppositions such as the so called reformists ..funded and guided through the foreign spy-agencies. I believe, those are the kinds of tactics used to bring down the country from the within and to turn a peaceful country into another Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iraq, yet the stupid ignorant Mullahs holding the power are not bothered what is going on in Yemen or somehow they prefer to see their enemies who are allied to Zionist establishing their powers in neighboring countries.

Edited by someone50
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  • Advanced Member

Um, I know this might seem oblivious to you....but Jundallah does not believe in elections anyways.

You clown, Jundallah has admitted they support and work in coordination with MKO(la) which was and is backed by America (who protected their "Camp Ashraf" set up by Saddam al-Baathi(la) back in the 1980s).

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It doesn't seem to be the way you describe. I believe a very small group of oppositions (those who oppose the whole Islamic establishment, religion and oppose any progress in Iran, those in exile) were waiting for such a moment to see Iranians turning against each others...like the case of (Rafsanjani vs Khamenei ..etc..).. They are happy that Mousavi lost so now they can bring a huge crowd behind them in saying they want reform and more freedom/democracy.

The ringleaders of these current CIA/Zionist orchestrated coup attempts (see the examples from the past like 1953's "Operation Ajax" against Iran by American CIA and British MI6 in support of the evil puppet Shah Muhammad Reza Pahlavi(la)) are using things like Twitter and their personal easy access to Western (Zionist run) media (speaking on the phone or via Twitter with CNN, etc.). Although Western media is nothing but a propaganda arm for the West and the Zionists (Zionist Jews own most of the main networks, be it Rupert Murdoch(la) and fox "news" (noise) or on and on, these stations are the most powerful and best funded in the world and can send their propaganda anywhere on earth.

Then these Zionist run networks make stuff up and take stuff out of context, like not telling everyone how the Iranian security forces were just responding after violent "protesters" attacked them with molotov cocktails and the like.

basij-azadi-fire.jpg

Iranian security forces building under attack by MKO(la) backed saboteurs with molotov cocktails.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8805101431

These "protesting" people are a small minority who are played up by the Western media (for their personal imperialist aims), see North Tehran Syndrome. Also you hear nothing about how the U.S. supports dictators like "house of Saud"(la) or dictator Hosni Mubarak(la) in Egypt, or on and on. Also nothing about the plight of the those fighting the coup against Manuel Zelaya the elected president of Honduras.

Also see this about American media hypocrisy on breaking up of violent "protests": http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2009/06/contrasting-protest-coverage-iran-vs-g.html

Quote- Thursday, June 18, 2009

Contrasting protest coverage Iran vs G-20 and Georgia

Iran, Iran, Iran. You would think this was the only news in the world. Odd isn't it?

What is so unique about unrest in Iran? Isn't there unrest everywhere? Sure there is!

Aren't there protests everywhere?

Yup, there are!

Look at the G-20 protests. The coverage that was given served to portray the protestors in a negative light and law enforcement as doing their job to keep the peace. Even when the death of an innocent bystander resulted, Ian Tomlinson at the hands of head bashing police officers, the main stream media stayed quite quiet. Apologies I stand corrected, quiet, except for the smear campaign that was launched against the victim after the police brutality was exposed! Apparently, Ian Tomlinson liked to drink. As if that justified his murder at the hands of law enforcement. The main stream media was clearly making excuses, clearly justifying the actions of law enforcement.

In Iran, it is a different story.

The police trying to control some extremely unruly crowds are portrayed as ruthless and "videos of police beating demonstrators hit hard at the emotions"

Unusual for western media to be sympathetic to unruly protestors.

At the G-20 where the police were bashing peaceful protestors, those on line videos sure didn't "hit hard at the emotions".

But, the protests in Iran? Resulting in heart strings being tugged?

Does this coverage make one suspect the western audience is being played?

Makes me suspicious.

If protesting is legitimate in Iran for an election, it surely should be at the G-20 protests, when issues affecting the world populace are being discussed and decided upon by elites behind locked gates. Gates that ensure the masses are left out in the cold.

But if the G-20 protests aren't relevant in your mind.

Let us look at another country. Georgia.

There have been many protests there.

Did you know that? Most people don't.

Why is that? Well there hasn't been much western mainstream media coverage of it. Certainly not the wall to wall, 24/7, coverage Iran has garnered.

Yet, in Georgia on June 15th/09, guess what was going on?

Protests! Along with police beatings!

...

Where is the western media coverage on this situation. Where are the hard hits at the western emotions for these disgruntled citizens? Why there aren't any at all! None.

It is just like, it doesn't exist.

Why is that?

Look at these two countries, Georgia and Iran.

One already has a pro-western puppet installed. That would be Georgia.

As for Iran, well there are hopes to install a pro- western puppet, or to at least demonize sufficiently to "bomb, bomb, bomb,-bomb, bomb Iran" to quote John McCain.

The agenda is political.

There are western aspirations (regime change and more) behind this wall to wall media coverage.

end quote.

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent
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  • Advanced Member

We must remember a few things about this so called 'opposition', which is no more than a mafia, its ringleaders, rich clerics and secularists alike that have found a new unity to focus on

The temporary plan is not overthrow, it is "Change from within"

(1) this means, they first want to co-operate in order to move towards privatization, that are now under islamic rule, that these mafia's will buy

(2) the second point is creating a Saudi Arabian of government, submissive towards the west and america and through this will gain economic prosperity, they rally support for this by calling for 'freedom', 'democracy', typical terms that are instrumental for western populist leaders who manipulate their people, in this case the iranian public

(3) when this is established, they will then turn it into a secular state, similar to Tunisia, Morocco, Jordanian type , not Turkey. It will have a 'cultural' islam as something that was an obstacle for politics and Iran, and the new secularism that 'freed' them from this obstacle, even if it does not come directly from the horses mouth.

since the Khatami era, they have pulled a pattern of tactics

They argued even then, if Khatami did not win, that Fraud would've taken place, for them, in their mindset there is no other candidate ever capable to win except for their own. If you are familiar with their viewpoints, you will notice that these very same people always speak of "We want...", "The majority does not agree...", "All of us...", for them, their spectrum and thought process evolves around themselves only, they do not recognize any other dimension of thinking, for iranians who are familiar with this cult-like filth, this mindset is very recognizable, perhaps even among our own families.

So when Rafsanjani's wife was asked what she would do if the opposition did not win, she responded with a clear and determined "We will take to the streets", for them, there is no such thing as a democratic process in which their side loses, no accepting defeat, they are a determined group of mafia's, buffoons and herds that will stop at nothing.

On the other hand, who is coordinating this mindset? Who is encouraging it and calling them "Freedom fighters" etc.? VOA, BBC Persia and the over 30 other channels that operate in the United States, including MKO's channel that broadcasts from Los Angeles. They have switched from telling their crowds "Do not vote" towards a "Vote for your candidate, if he doesn't lose, raise hell".

What type of people adhere to this herd-like-ideology?

-People who prospered economically during the Shah

-Irreligious people

-People who did not prosper economically during the Shah but admire america, watch hollywood etc.

-People who watch satellite television

-People who have no connection with religious segments of society

-People who do not visit mosques, hussainia's, islamic centres.

-Youth who admire hollywood, rap music, hiphop, britney spears, eminem, 2pac.

-People who were, during the Shah's regime convinced that the West is a paradise and that Iran, no matter what it ever does, is always inferior

-Cultural Muslims

-People who are atheist and claim they are Muslims and hide their aqidah.

-People who do not care for the Imam or revolution but purely their own pockets, if this means being submissive to America, they will jump the bandwagon for power and material prosperity.

What is the source of their behaviour?

-Family that are granted greencards and passports because they are 'refugees of the regime', in return for the scooby snack, these refugees who are now 'naturalized citizens' curse Islam, and the Iranian government, use their own families as instruments and provoke them to rebel against their government in order to make "Iran just like a western paradise"

-Satellite television broadcasts from LA and funded by the American government, a budget of 200 Million dollars the past 5 years part of America's military budget, americans realizing that invasion or overthrow of the 'regime' is not possible militarily, tell their followers within iran that a 'change from within' also called 'an evolution (in their looney mentality, from theocracy to western-secular models)'

-Regimes who pour money into exchange student programmes from Iran, inviting them and exposing them to 'political discussions' with western students in which they are confronted with typical propaganda, usually few in number, gradually within the number of years of their stay (or indoctrinated) are 'convinced' western-secularization is the only solution for mankind, return to iran as a kind of jehovah witnesses.

The United States has realized that it can play into their self made doctrine of "If your candidate does not win, raise hell" by using the opportunity in order to tell people that whenever a conservative candidate wins who is not the most favourable to US strategic policy, that people should pour into the streets, because it is not possible that their candidate can lose. They have manipulated this herd in a number of layers that can only be observed when one watches the various propaganda channels from America. For the average orientalist who neither understands farsi or Iranian society, this will never occur.

Is it then surprising that a thug like Makhmalbaf, the 'representative' of Mir Hossein Mousavi, after Ahmadinejad's victory went to the European Union and the Arab world that Iran wants a nuclear bomb and that they should help with regime change in order to establish democracy? Only then do we understand the corrupt nature, entirely submissive to American neoconservatism through a dogmatic ideology not experienced since MKO.

If you examine the video by Maryam Satrapi presented that was a letter by the "Iranian government" of the real figures(3:50) that was allegedly written by the government, showing Mousavi as the winner, this letter was presented to the CIA, which called the letter "Too good to be troe" and "Doubtful of its authenticity", she is applauded, paraded, as the greencard concubine of the West.

Edited by Rubaiyat
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  • Advanced Member

I agree. At this point the government should not act as 'the opposition to the opposition'. Throwing some slogans in an aim to separate themselves from the opposition. Because, there is 2 kinds of opposition, a small minorities, who are indeed puppets, opportunists, leftists, anti-Islam or some cases anti-Iran......and a majority of the opposition is as you described just some people coming from different class of the society chanting anything that is opposing the current "government of Ahmadinejad". As I mentioned earlier, the government should respond to the calls of the majority in a way not hurt the principles and to separate the 'good opposition from the bad oppositions/trouble makers'.

(salam)

Nowadays, I am just not very optimist that we are going to see any engaging. Each side seems to want whole or nothing. :(

Although the opposition seems very small scale (in comparison) and disorganized, they look determine. The other side seems more than happy to "engage" and I don't mean in friendly terms.

Am I correct to assume that we are going to see more of this..and possible for the next 4 years? :unsure:

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Rubiyat, isn't your comments bit over?

I think your point is just too extreme and one-sided.There are many people who are devout revolutionaries who believe that Iran cant be and wont be the same Iran of 30 years ago, Why? Because you cant control people by forcing the to do something that would just make repel that's you you unfortunately see youth acting like how they are today...

The problem in Iran is the simple fact that Islamic Revolution hasn't really moved much, When (Majles e Khobregan) who are Legally allowed to criticize the Leader dont because there views as very similar... Maybe thats WHY people get frustrated with the policies and can't voice their opinions. So if you imagne this would slowly, slowly build up till what you see now the Mujahedeen and the western countries are taking advantage.. of the protest. To fix the problem you have to understand it.

Mokhlesetam Rubiyat :)

Eltemasee Du'a

Edited by Gol-e-Zahra
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Gol-E-Zahra,

There is nothing "Over" about what I said,

You are blaiming Iran of "Forcing" rules,

while every country in the world forces rules on its population. Some do it through psychoanalysis, others with batons, you have strange priorities which one is better, you prefer psychoanalysis. In fact, are you also blaiming the Prophet (s) of forcing rules such as Hijab, prohibition of alcohol and throwing it into the alleys, enforcing the good and prohibiting the evil...making theft and murder illegal, so this freedom is taken away, maybe the freedoms of popular sex parties that were also made Haram.this is too narrow, you are blaiming the Model based on long term empirical and statistical success and order, safety, prosperity because the human being,a rebellious creature does not want to be tamed: as freud made clear decades ago disagrees with its policy.

this is nothing abnormal, most of the world population do not even realize they subconsciously are subjected to rules imposed through politics, the only reason you think Iran 'forces' and people 'repel' is because the political climate of Iran is primitive and the country has too much freedoms, while its people are subjected to propaganda television, programmes that are collectively prepared by sociologists, psychologists, journalists and PR counsellors who create Voice of America's content, not very different from what the americans did with other, much larger regimes that fell because of this policy.

Perhaps you do not have a satellite dish, perhaps you are not Iranian, perhaps you do not know Iran from our spectrum, people who know both worlds and have experienced it, and have lived it. as I was, a few years ago very much part of this "Green movement" of today, voting for Khatami. Much of my work from that era has remained, as I was also deeply involved with such groups. I like many of the Iranians here are from a new wave of awakening that understands the effects of propaganda, oligarchy and US realization that a war on Iran cannot be won militarily, they realize they must pump more money into other measures to create a delicate balance of terror: "Jange Ravani". As the Israeli minister Netanyahu said: We must broadcast Beverly Hills 90210 and Mellrose place to Iranian homes. For an ordinary person, this seems harmless and silly. But for an Iranian who is familiar with the socio-political implications of this warfare, to recruit Iranians who admire western lifestyles, based on materialism and sexually premiscuous relationships: it is a reality of how most of this green movement believes, thinks and operates.This is no exaggeration, this is the reality.

Edited by Rubaiyat
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  • Advanced Member

I was in Iran couple of months ago and saw the peoples anger myself, when I see the people of my country being hit by batons, for voicing their opinions.I find it discusting that goverment acts so ignorently. Shouldent the goverment learn from its mistake?" (Religion isn't by force) Ayat 255 Sura Baqara the prophet placed these rules but he never forced people to except it.

Edited by Gol-e-Zahra
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Gol-e-Zahra,I do not advise using a few verses from quran out of context that fit your mentality, no scholar accepts your verse in this manner, you clearly come from a cultural Muslim background. Read how Prophet forced the people to throw alcohol in the alleys and make it illegal. Read how the Prophet ordered the stoning of adulterers, enforcing the Hijab through his moral police and dealt strictly with thieves and sex parties and homosexuals. If you believe our Prophet's government is more like Europe or USA, a government in which this is allowed and tolerated in society, your islam and mine differ greatly. It seems you went to Tehran, where you saw the 'peoples anger yourself', because in the vast majority of cities and provinces in Iran, 'the people' did not turn up.

In fact, i repeatedly describe this mindset expressed by you in my last post of zealot Iranians who always speak of themselves as the "Majority", "the people", "all Iranians", this parochial and determined view is common among low educated, rich and satellite watching Iranians, always illusioned that their point of view is the dominant one without any empirical evidence, alienated from the rest of society, the protests were less than 1% of Iran's 76 million population, they are not 'the people', they are your friends, family, neighbors, or simply a small sample size of people you spoke to, a vast majority of trouble makers who are from northern tehran, Robert Fisk can tell you this also. Let us take your twisted logic: Islamic Republic forces Hijab and Islam so 'the people' are not becoming religious. Maybe you should look into Afghanistan and see how the Taliban ruled, and how there is no such talk of 'people becoming less religious'. The problem is not Islamic republic forcing anything, in fact a majority has no problem with this. If we compare Iran to south America, one will see many patterns, many resemblences, Chavez when he speaks of "Venezuelan terrorists" being harbored in the US are our Baharloo's, Moshiri's, Sazegara's and Reza Cyrus Pahlavi's who closely coordinate and have created the Green Movement. This is not a matter of Islam, this is a matter of media and proxy war.

If you are from the Green movement, you are more likely to watch government owned Voice of America and BBC Persia, more likelt yo have an admirable view towards Hollywood and american exported culture, including pornography and sexually tinted videos, it is more likely you do not have a favorable view towards Khomeini, the revolution or even Islam. Bill Maher made a similar comparison: You are not a racist if you vote republican, but if you are one you probably did.

Edited by Rubaiyat
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Gol-e-Zahra,I do not advise using a few verses from quran out of context that fit your mentality, no scholar accepts your verse in this manner, you clearly come from a cultural Muslim background. Read how Prophet forced the people to throw alcohol in the alleys and make it illegal. Read how the Prophet ordered the stoning of adulterers, enforcing the Hijab through his moral police and dealt strictly with thieves and sex parties and homosexuals. If you believe our Prophet's government is more like Europe or USA, a government in which this is allowed and tolerated in society, your islam and mine differ greatly. It seems you went to Tehran, where you saw the 'peoples anger yourself', because in the vast majority of cities and provinces in Iran, 'the people' did not turn up.

In fact, i repeatedly describe this mindset expressed by you in my last post of zealot Iranians who always speak of themselves as the "Majority", "the people", "all Iranians", this parochial and determined view is common among low educated, rich and satellite watching Iranians, always illusioned that their point of view is the dominant one without any empirical evidence, alienated from the rest of society, the protests were less than 1% of Iran's 76 million population, they are not 'the people', they are your friends, family, neighbors, or simply a small sample size of people you spoke to, a vast majority of trouble makers who are from northern tehran, Robert Fisk can tell you this also. Let us take your twisted logic: Islamic Republic forces Hijab and Islam so 'the people' are not becoming religious. Maybe you should look into Afghanistan and see how the Taliban ruled, and how there is no such talk of 'people becoming less religious'. The problem is not Islamic republic forcing anything, in fact a majority has no problem with this. If we compare Iran to south America, one will see many patterns, many resemblences, Chavez when he speaks of "Venezuelan terrorists" being harbored in the US are our Baharloo's, Moshiri's, Sazegara's and Reza Cyrus Pahlavi's who closely coordinate and have created the Green Movement. This is not a matter of Islam, this is a matter of media and proxy war.

If you are from the Green movement, you are more likely to watch government owned Voice of America and BBC Persia, more likelt yo have an admirable view towards Hollywood and american exported culture, including pornography and sexually tinted videos, it is more likely you do not have a favorable view towards Khomeini, the revolution or even Islam. Bill Maher made a similar comparison: You are not a racist if you vote republican, but if you are one you probably did.

(salam)

nice post brother i totally support your point of view.

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