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In the Name of God بسم الله

How would you stereotype Iraqis?

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strawberry

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Apart from all these, um, earthier stereotypes, you could also explore the similarities between approaches to religion in the cultures, as both countries have an influential historical religious center in them (the Vatican and Najaf). If whoever you are writing it for is not allergic to religion :)

I did! He isn't- I even think he might be Shia =p

@ others, thanks for your help. umm Every iraqi city is special in their own way lol. Stop fighting you guys!

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(salam)

Man, some Iraqis are just miskeen.

You mean those orphans who are dying from hunger in Iraq? Or the Iraqi babies born handicapped or disfigured because of the war pollution etc? Or the zillion Iraqi widows? Yes, they are masakeen indeed, May God help them.

Edited by Calm
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Iraqis like to sweet-talk people, especially in social, convivial settings. They smile a lot and say 'salaam'. However they are social backstabbers as everyone knows.

Regarding the Iraqi habits and customs, I foresee lots of conflict between the Iraqis settled in the West, and Western values.

Personally I never understood why Iraqis as a whole are so silent about the American occupation of their country. They seem to have no pride.

Edited by Researcher
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LOL Baghdadis aren't proud?! Oh dear.... :P

No sister, (i'm assuming your a sister) we Baghdad's don't bet our chests and say we have imam al Kadhim (as), but the opposite is for the karbalaeis. They beat their chests and say " we have imam al hussein (as)". Everytime i hear this i crack up because it's like their going to get any more benefit then any other place im iraq. But still, their good people.

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^^ As brother shiasoldier786 always says, patriotism is paganism.

Dont give me the credit for it brother. Its a transcript from a famous speech by Ayatollah Khomeini (ra):

"We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah; for patriotism is another word for paganism.

I say let this land (of Iran) burn!

I say let this land (of Iran) go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world!"

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No sister, (i'm assuming your a sister) we Baghdad's don't bet our chests and say we have imam al Kadhim (as), but the opposite is for the karbalaeis. They beat their chests and say " we have imam al hussein (as)". Everytime i hear this i crack up because it's like their going to get any more benefit then any other place im iraq. But still, their good people.

Lol, I get what your saying. At the end of the day, wherever we live in Iraq or even outside of Iraq, we won't be judged by where we lived, but how we lived.

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Iraqis like to sweet-talk people, especially in social, convivial settings. They smile a lot and say 'salaam'. However they are social backstabbers as everyone knows.

Regarding the Iraqi habits and customs, I foresee lots of conflict between the Iraqis settled in the West, and Western values.

Personally I never understood why Iraqis as a whole are so silent about the American occupation of their country. They seem to have no pride.

I think your statement, is to judgeful and quite offensive actually..yes there are those discraceful Iraqi's who kiss American ass, or praise Saddam.

However there are also many Iraqi's who loose sleep over what's happening in Iraq, and some Iraqi's are reaally getting out there. Sometime the only thing they can do is spread awareness and make fundraisers or something, and I hardly see this, bs inshalla our youth Iraqi community in Canada, will start spreading awareness of the injustice and carnage Iraqi's are facing.

This is an Iraqi hero, she's absoluty amazing, we need more Iraqi's like her.

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I think your statement, is to judgeful and quite offensive actually..yes there are those discraceful Iraqi's who kiss American ass, or praise Saddam.

However there are also many Iraqi's who loose sleep over what's happening in Iraq, and some Iraqi's are reaally getting out there. Sometime the only thing they can do is spread awareness and make fundraisers or something, and I hardly see this, bs inshalla our youth Iraqi community in Canada, will start spreading awareness of the injustice and carnage Iraqi's are facing.

This is an Iraqi hero, she's absoluty amazing, we need more Iraqi's like her.

She's very courageous to speak openly like this , especially about Israel : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_iTR9dI6o&feature=related

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Iraqis like to sweet-talk people, especially in social, convivial settings. They smile a lot and say 'salaam'. However they are social backstabbers as everyone knows.

Regarding the Iraqi habits and customs, I foresee lots of conflict between the Iraqis settled in the West, and Western values.

Personally I never understood why Iraqis as a whole are so silent about the American occupation of their country. They seem to have no pride.

I think we should differentiate between Iraqis in Iraq and those outside it. Many in Iraq do resent occupation, but they have lived all their lives under dictatorship pre2003 and anarchy and ethno-sectarian civil war post2003, so they have neither a common purpose, nor a feeling that they can actually change the situation they find themselves in. The democratic experiment has turned out to be a major disappointment, and this only further reinforces their feelings of impotence.

As for those Iraqis outside Iraq, true many of them have neither shame nor pride. Indeed some of them here in London made strenuous efforts to laud the neo-cons in 2002/2003. Now some of them are in power and sucking up Iraq's wealth like vampires sucking on the blood of a cripple, and some have not benefitted in any way at all, neither materialistically, nor morally. But frankly, I couldn't give a flying [Edited Out] about this lot, most of them are failures in life in one way or an other, I care only for the innocents in Iraq. Maybe there will be light a new dawn in a few years time, but probably not. I think Iraq will remain an under-achieving bane on it's own citizens for a long time yet. More than 20 years after the fall of Communism in the Soviet Union, life is still harsh for most of it's citizens. Iraq is not likely to be much better.

Edited by Dirac Delta function
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As for those Iraqis outside Iraq, true many of them have neither shame nor pride. Indeed some of them here in London made strenuous efforts to laud the neo-cons in 2002/2003. Now some of them are in power and sucking up Iraq's wealth like vampires sucking on the blood of a cripple, and some have not benefitted in any way at all, neither materialistically, nor morally. But frankly, I couldn't give a flying [Edited Out] about this lot, most of them are failures in life in one way or an other, I care only for the innocents in Iraq. Maybe there will be light a new dawn in a few years time, but probably not. I think Iraq will remain an under-achieving bane on it's own citizens for a long time yet. More than 20 years after the fall of Communism in the Soviet Union, life is still harsh for most of it's citizens. Iraq is not likely to be much better.

A few people in power do not represent the whole nation and hence making conclusions as "many" or "most" Iraqis are so and so is wrong.

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I think we should differentiate between Iraqis in Iraq and those outside it. Many in Iraq do resent occupation, but they have lived all their lives under dictatorship pre2003 and anarchy and ethno-sectarian civil war post2003, so they have neither a common purpose, nor a feeling that they can actually change the situation they find themselves in. The democratic experiment has turned out to be a major disappointment, and this only further reinforces their feelings of impotence.

As for those Iraqis outside Iraq, true many of them have neither shame nor pride. Indeed some of them here in London made strenuous efforts to laud the neo-cons in 2002/2003. Now some of them are in power and sucking up Iraq's wealth like vampires sucking on the blood of a cripple, and some have not benefitted in any way at all, neither materialistically, nor morally. But frankly, I couldn't give a flying [Edited Out] about this lot, most of them are failures in life in one way or an other, I care only for the innocents in Iraq. Maybe there will be light a new dawn in a few years time, but probably not. I think Iraq will remain an under-achieving bane on it's own citizens for a long time yet. More than 20 years after the fall of Communism in the Soviet Union, life is still harsh for most of it's citizens. Iraq is not likely to be much better.

I don't have a feeling one way or another but I think it is important to appreciate the complex realities of the Iraqi people and try not to oversimplify. It is absolutely legitimate that Iraqis lived under an autocratic dictator whose regime would have remained stable and static had it not been for foreign invasion. After foreign invasion the realities of civil war (both ethnic and sectarian) skyrocketed and resulted in massive bloodshed. However, since 2006 the situation in Iraq has become more stable and there is legitimacy and validity in the idea that the Iraqi people's situation may improve. It will take a lot of time, effort, and patience but I have faith that it will reach fruition. The demographics of Iraq and their independent struggles for equal representation and power will hopefully reach a compromise. The recent attack (the deadliest since 2006) has shown that we have not sufficiently addressed the issues that cause civil war.

I don't think "many" is the right word and I don't like the word "neo-con" in this context either. Lets get past the "liberal" "neocon" bs and assess this situation for what it really was to those who may have naively applauded the United States: an opportunity to get rid of a dictator. Everything is so delicately molded by our experiences that I can't draw lines between "opportunists" and "innocents."

I did not know you were Iraqi Calm! Yay :wub: As for the "kerbalai" "Baghdadi" rubbish.. I am a kurd so you may all begin attacking me :angel:

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
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I don't have a feeling one way or another but I think it is important to appreciate the complex realities of the Iraqi people and try not to oversimplify. It is absolutely legitimate that Iraqis lived under an autocratic dictator whose regime would have remained stable and static had it not been for foreign invasion. After foreign invasion the realities of civil war (both ethnic and sectarian) skyrocketed and resulted in massive bloodshed. However, since 2006 the situation in Iraq has become more stable and there is legitimacy and validity in the idea that the Iraqi people's situation may improve. It will take a lot of time, effort, and patience but I have faith that it will reach fruition. The demographics of Iraq and their independent struggles for equal representation and power will hopefully reach a compromise. The recent attack (the deadliest since 2006) has shown that we have not sufficiently addressed the issues that cause civil war.

I don't think "many" is the right word and I don't like the word "neo-con" in this context either. Lets get past the "liberal" "neocon" bs and assess this situation for what it really was to those who may have naively applauded the United States: an opportunity to get rid of a dictator. Everything is so delicately molded by our experiences that I can't draw lines between "opportunists" and "innocents."

+1

I did not know you were Iraqi Calm! Yay :wub: As for the "kerbalai" "Baghdadi" rubbish.. I am a kurd so you may all begin attacking me :angel:

I am and I did not know you were Iraqi either until I read a few minutes ago your reply to Direc, yes the one you said "adabsis" lol, I have not hear this word in such a long time. As for the childish fifht about different cities, I'm a mix from the north and south of Iraq and hence I find it ridiculous when people from the north insult the southerns and vice versa. Maybe my parent (when they raised us) did a great job teaching us to respects others no matter what, because it seems not many can remain polite for a long time here. Either they insult people just because they come from a different city or they disrespect you if you have a different opinion. This kind of behavior is very strange to me.
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I don't have a feeling one way or another but I think it is important to appreciate the complex realities of the Iraqi people and try not to oversimplify. It is absolutely legitimate that Iraqis lived under an autocratic dictator whose regime would have remained stable and static had it not been for foreign invasion. After foreign invasion the realities of civil war (both ethnic and sectarian) skyrocketed and resulted in massive bloodshed. However, since 2006 the situation in Iraq has become more stable and there is legitimacy and validity in the idea that the Iraqi people's situation may improve. It will take a lot of time, effort, and patience but I have faith that it will reach fruition. The demographics of Iraq and their independent struggles for equal representation and power will hopefully reach a compromise. The recent attack (the deadliest since 2006) has shown that we have not sufficiently addressed the issues that cause civil war.

I don't think "many" is the right word and I don't like the word "neo-con" in this context either. Lets get past the "liberal" "neocon" bs and assess this situation for what it really was to those who may have naively applauded the United States: an opportunity to get rid of a dictator. Everything is so delicately molded by our experiences that I can't draw lines between "opportunists" and "innocents."

I did not know you were Iraqi Calm! Yay :wub: As for the "kerbalai" "Baghdadi" rubbish.. I am a kurd so you may all begin attacking me :angel:

Chayawa? lol

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. Everything is so delicately molded by our experiences that I can't draw lines between "opportunists" and "innocents."

You don't need to draw a line, we know they exist. Iraq is one of the most corrupt countries in the world.

EDIT: btw, re: "an opportunity to get rid of a dictator". There is a difference between quietly letting two of your enemies fight each other because it serves your interest, and publicly backing one over the other. There was nothing to be gained by doing the latter; the US elites had already made their deicision to go to war, with or without international backing Those Iraqis who put an Iraqi stamp of approval on invasion made no difference to the outcome one way or another, they just sold their dignity for, what it turned out, was largely nothing. The only reasonable and - dare I say- moral stance to take back then if you agreed with the invasion was to shut up and be quiet.

Edited by Dirac Delta function
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You don't need to draw a line, we know they exist. Iraq is one of the most corrupt countries in the world.

EDIT: btw, re: "an opportunity to get rid of a dictator". There is a difference between quietly letting two of your enemies fight each other because it serves your interest, and publicly backing one over the other. There was nothing to be gained by doing the latter; the US elites had already made their deicision to go to war, with or without international backing Those Iraqis who put an Iraqi stamp of approval on invasion made no difference to the outcome one way or another, they just sold their dignity for, what it turned out, was largely nothing. The only reasonable and - dare I say- moral stance to take back then if you agreed with the invasion was to shut up and be quiet.

Saying that you supported the American invasion is selling your dignity? Who decided this? Again I stress that you don't oversimplify a situation that was full of complexities. When people are promised a certain thing thing that they desire, they speak out in its favor.. there is nothing undignified in this.

Whenever war unravels and its harsh realities take their toll on a people, everyone suddenly vehemently speaks out in opposition. We are humans.. as such we have OPINIONS and there is no shame in expressing them. The American people went from largely supporting the war to denouncing it when it took its inevitable toll on our economic interests, history has shown us that this is how the dynamic often shifts when it comes to war. Those seeking their interests are not undignified and corrupt but humans who want to live, work, worship and die in a manner that affords them happiness and content.

And since when is Iraq one of the "most" corrupt in the world? It is not inherently corrupt by virtue of its people and their character but rather by poverty, instability, and war. These are ALWAYS the main factors that lead to corruption. Even so I would hesitate to put Iraq on the top of that list :angel:

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Saying that you supported the American invasion is selling your dignity? Who decided this?

Dignity is not something I can logically explain to you, because it's not necessarily a logical phenomenon. For example, in the other thread you wonder what the porblem with masturbation is, why is it haram...the answer is obvious - it's undignified. Perhaps a lot less so for women than men, but the answer to the question of why masturbation is haram is just obvious to me.

Same with this, if you can't see why it is shameful and undignified to stand on a televised podium lauding Cheney and co to attack your own country, then I can't explain it to you, and you will forever be perplexed by people who hold you in contempt for it.

Again I stress that you don't oversimplify a situation that was full of complexities. When people are promised a certain thing thing that they desire, they speak out in its favor.. there is nothing undignified in this.

I don;t have a problem with Iraqis who thought that on balance it would be better for the US to invade than see what happens with the former regime. It's a legitimate argument, even if ultimately wrong. However, as I said, being a media [Edited Out] to the enemies of Iraq is a different thing.

Whenever war unravels and its harsh realities take their toll on a people, everyone suddenly vehemently speaks out in opposition. We are humans.. as such we have OPINIONS and there is no shame in expressing them. The American people went from largely supporting the war to denouncing it when it took its inevitable toll on our economic interests, history has shown us that this is how the dynamic often shifts when it comes to war. Those seeking their interests are not undignified and corrupt but humans who want to live, work, worship and die in a manner that affords them happiness and content.

Yes the American people sought their interests in invading Iraq, and there was nothing undignified about it; they were excercising the privilege of citizenship of an aggressive imperial power. However, they are not the subject of this discussion. The Iraqis who saw America install Saddam into power, suport his regime, support his war against Iran, greenlight his invasion of Kuwait only to bomb Iraq afterwards (and 200,000 Iraqis died in that war by the way), then promise to help us in an uprising only to abandon us, then impose the most thorough and destructive sanctions in history Iraq, only to bomb and invade - those Iraqis who then refer to Bush &Co as a great hero, they have no shame nor dignity. Again, If you don't 'get' this, then I can't explain it to you.

And since when is Iraq one of the "most" corrupt in the world? It is not inherently corrupt by virtue of its people and their character but rather by poverty, instability, and war. These are ALWAYS the main factors that lead to corruption. Even so I would hesitate to put Iraq on the top of that list :angel:

Iraq is very obviouslty a corrupt country. This is hardly up for debate. There are a number of indices which rank countries for corruption. This one is quite well known http://www.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2008/cpi2008/cpi_2008_table (Iraq 3rd from bottom)

And it's not great for democracy either

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/25828/20081021185552/graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy%20Index%202008.pdf

being at the bottom of the hybrid rankings.

Edited by Dirac Delta function
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Dignity is not something I can logically explain to you, because it's not necessarily a logical phenomenon. For example, in the other thread you wonder what the porblem with masturbation is, why is it haram...the answer is obvious - it's undignified. Perhaps a lot less so for women than men, but the answer to the question of why masturbation is haram is just obvious to me.

Same with this, if you can't see why it is shameful and undignified to stand on a televised podium lauding Cheney and co to attack your own country, then I can't explain it to you, and you will forever be perplexed by people who hold you in contempt for it.

I think you are taking me out of context on the masturbation thread. My issue was with people correlating masturbating with pedophilia and rape, a myth that has been perpetuated endlessly and has been used by serial rapists and pedophiles to legitimize or justify their actions. I never said the act was dignified or halal, but that would not be the obvious answer to why it is haram. Also it would be equally undignified for both sexes because Islam stresses self restraint and the beauty of sex within the confines of matrimony. We are all sexual beings (some of us more than others) who would be required to practice this self restraint in order to fulfill our religious obligations regardless of gender.

I think dignity is indeed hard to explain, you have your definition based on all the biases your experiences have afforded you. I can understand why you would think that a person lauding Cheney would be undignified (a viewpoint I personally share) but I can also appreciate that this individual may have seen and experienced more horror at the hands of Saddam than both of us can imagine. They may have viewed what you can an "attack on their country" as- what I stated before- an opportunity to rid themselves of a dictator.

I don't think I am perplexed by why people hold me in contempt (although I hope this is not the case here) people have very strong opinions when it comes to whether or not someone should be masturbating so I can appreciate the passionate views on the issue of war and foreign policy.

I don;t have a problem with Iraqis who thought that on balance it would be better for the US to invade than see what happens with the former regime. It's a legitimate argument, even if ultimately wrong. However, as I said, being a media [Edited Out] to the enemies of Iraq is a different thing.

Yes the American people sought their interests in invading Iraq, and there was nothing undignified about it; they were excercising the privilege of citizenship of an aggressive imperial power. However, they are not the subject of this discussion. The Iraqis who saw America install Saddam into power, suport his regime, support his war against Iran, greenlight his invasion of Kuwait only to bomb Iraq afterwards (and 200,000 Iraqis died in that war by the way), then promise to help us in an uprising only to abandon us, then impose the most thorough and destructive sanctions in history Iraq, only to bomb and invade - those Iraqis who then refer to Bush &Co as a great hero, they have no shame nor dignity. Again, If you don't 'get' this, then I can't explain it to you.

I was using the American people as an example of how the tide turns when the realities of war come out, something that was demonstrated by the Iraqi people themselves. I used to rant a lot like you are doing now and threw the words "dignity" and "shame" around because they satiated my anger or passion on the subject. These are words that are strong, especially in the context of Iraqis. I don't know what Iraqis you are referring to here, who apparently helped Saddam get into power, supported his wars, were happy with the sanctions, and then were happy with the invasion. They are a minority. It isn't like I am saying there are NO corrupt people in Iraq :unsure: If those are the people you were referencing, people who did all that, then I would call them hypocrites and you would be hard pressed to find someone to advocate their moral decency.

Iraq is very obviouslty a corrupt country. This is hardly up for debate. There are a number of indices which rank countries for corruption. This one is quite well known http://www.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2008/cpi2008/cpi_2008_table (Iraq 3rd from bottom)

And it's not great for democracy either

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/25828/20081021185552/graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy%20Index%202008.pdf

being at the bottom of the hybrid rankings.

These numbers will change before you can say "Iraq is really corrupt" or "Iraq is really stable." They are the product of poverty, war, and instability and they increase with sectarian violence, hunger, etc and decrease in times of stability. They decreased significantly after 2006 and then increased again after the most recent attack. The fact that right now it is neither an autocracy or a democracy (an anocracy) has a lot to do with it.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
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I think you are taking me out of context on the masturbation thread. My issue was with people correlating masturbating with pedophilia and rape, a myth that has been perpetuated endlessly and has been used by serial rapists and pedophiles to legitimize or justify their actions. I never said the act was dignified or halal, but that would not be the obvious answer to why it is haram. Also it would be equally undignified for both sexes because Islam stresses self restraint and the beauty of sex within the confines of matrimony. We are all sexual beings (some of us more than others) who would be required to practice this self restraint in order to fulfill our religious obligations regardless of gender.

I think dignity is indeed hard to explain, you have your definition based on all the biases your experiences have afforded you. I can understand why you would think that a person lauding Cheney would be undignified (a viewpoint I personally share) but I can also appreciate that this individual may have seen and experienced more horror at the hands of Saddam than both of us can imagine. They may have viewed what you can an "attack on their country" as- what I stated before- an opportunity to rid themselves of a dictator.

I don't think I am perplexed by why people hold me in contempt (although I hope this is not the case here) people have very strong opinions when it comes to whether or not someone should be masturbating so I can appreciate the passionate views on the issue of war and foreign policy.

I don't think anyone here holds you in contempt on the basis of either things, but I do think there is a difference between how the two sexes are judged. Anyway, that's a big digression.

I was using the American people as an example of how the tide turns when the realities of war come out, something that was demonstrated by the Iraqi people themselves. I used to rant a lot like you are doing now and threw the words "dignity" and "shame" around because they satiated my anger or passion on the subject. These are words that are strong, especially in the context of Iraqis. I don't know what Iraqis you are referring to here, who apparently helped Saddam get into power, supported his wars, were happy with the sanctions, and then were happy with the invasion. They are a minority. It isn't like I am saying there are NO corrupt people in Iraq :unsure: If those are the people you were referencing, people who did all that, then I would call them hypocrites and you would be hard pressed to find someone to advocate their moral decency.

I was referring to Iraqis who had witnessed the US do these things, not people who had done them themselves.

These numbers will change before you can say "Iraq is really corrupt" or "Iraq is really stable." They are the product of poverty, war, and instability and they increase with sectarian violence, hunger, etc and decrease in times of stability. They decreased significantly after 2006 and then increased again after the most recent attack. The fact that right now it is neither an autocracy or a democracy (an anocracy) has a lot to do with it.

Well, those studies are recent, but I hope you're right that they will change. Personally, I think they will improve, but not by a huge amount.

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iraqis are messed up, the funniest scene on earth is seeing an iraqi try to mix with blacks. :!!!: Espscially the m3douwis, yalll know who i mean. ;) cough*ahlul basra*cough

How do basrawis try to mix with blacks? :huh:

Also, basrawis are NOT m3dan, jeesh you baghdadis like to make fun of basrawis because basra is perhaps the only city in Iraq that can threaten baghdads title (beauty, center of attention, etc.). :P

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Well, disadvantages: Basrawis can be way too proud or up themselves, and backbite a lot. Karbalai's cause a lot of fitna and trouble and are very arrogant as well as disrespectful and lack any sort of pride (suck up to people a lot). Baghdadis are extremely up themselves and act as though they are better than everyone else, they are usually very un-islamic, immodest, rude and jamdeen (unlovable). Kurds can be very illogical and proud. The thing I hate most about Iraqis however, is that usually they are very imgadya, and dont think logically, they just follow what their parents preach.

BTW, I don't mean to generalize by my above statement, but that is what I have witnessed in most Iraqis during my young age. Also, not everyone is like that, I'm just talking about most people which i have met...

Advantages: Basrawis can be very kind and welcoming and are lovable (ma7boobin), karbala'is can be very generous, Baghdadis can go out of their way to greet someone and make them feel welcome, and kurds are very generous :)

Edited by yafatimaalzahra
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Salaams,

Iraqieen ba3ad warda.

As an Iraqi I would say we are funny, brave, passionate, out-going and intelligent. But we can be obnoxious, socially-akward and we overreact a lot of the time. All in all I think Iraqi people are beautiful and good hearted, especially the Iraqi women ;)

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(bismillah) (salam)

Baghdadis are extremely up themselves and act as though they are better than everyone else, they are usually very un-islamic, immodest, rude and jamdeen (unlovable).

Note: As a baghdadi, it is the complete OPPOSITE.

Well, disadvantages: Kurds can be very illogical and proud. The thing I hate most about Iraqis however, is that usually they are very imgadya, and dont think logically, they just follow what their parents preach.

Not me, ha.

Basrawis can be way too proud or up themselves, and backbite a lot. Karbalai's cause a lot of fitna and trouble and are very arrogant as well as disrespectful and lack any sort of pride (suck up to people a lot).

Plus a billion.

(wasalam)

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(bismillah) (salam)

How do basrawis try to mix with blacks? :huh:

They do in my area..

Also, basrawis are NOT m3dan, jeesh you baghdadis like to make fun of basrawis because basra is perhaps the only city in Iraq that can threaten baghdads title (beauty, center of attention, etc.). :P

Then who are the m3dan people are always talking about. Kurds?lol. Beauty,center of attention? Thats what they think, all they have are ropes (albeit good ones), ships and fish. If i wanted that i would live in NF (canada)

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Yes the American people sought their interests in invading Iraq, and there was nothing undignified about it; they were excercising the privilege of citizenship of an aggressive imperial power. However, they are not the subject of this discussion. The Iraqis who saw America install Saddam into power, suport his regime, support his war against Iran, greenlight his invasion of Kuwait only to bomb Iraq afterwards (and 200,000 Iraqis died in that war by the way), then promise to help us in an uprising only to abandon us, then impose the most thorough and destructive sanctions in history Iraq, only to bomb and invade - those Iraqis who then refer to Bush &Co as a great hero, they have no shame nor dignity. Again, If you don't 'get' this, then I can't explain it to you.

Wonderfully put togather,!

... however Iraqi's should not have even expected any positive change at the beginning of the invasion, because they should have been wise and eduacted enough, to know this brutal dictatorship was put into place by the invaders, and the invaders have no interest in the Iraqi's freedoms and rights.

So any Iraqi who expected anything from the Invasion, is either ignorant of their own country's politics and history, or a total handicap :angel: .

As for the Iraqi's who regard the invasion as liberation, or a good thing or whatever, they are beyond discraceful but they must be slightly handicapped as well!!!! Who the hell hasn't realized the Iraqi Invasion, as modern day US Imperialism, to exploit the resources of Iraq!

God I hate stupid people, it just discusts me when Iraqi's think the US did them a favour :mad:

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