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In the Name of God بسم الله

Did President Ahmadinejad ever distance himself

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  • Veteran Member

I am talking about the holocaust cartoons. He didn't endorse David Duke but he was inivted to speak in Iran. Duke should not have been there in the first place. After Duke left Iran the president should have made it quite clear that he disagrees with many of Duke's views.

http://www.irancartoon.com/120/holocaust/

Even if the holocaust didn't happen on the same scale as that which is normally portrayed, there is a need for us to be respectful towards those people whose family members were killed by the Nazis.

{Shakir 6:108} And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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Most of the cartoons portray the message of a "holocaust" happening now in Palestine, and that the creation of the state of Israel is based on it, and is used as a justification to the Israeli attrocities. In this, there is no disrepect, but rather it raises the awareness of what is happening now, as to an event which happened over 60 years ago.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

Most of the cartoons portray the message of a "holocaust" happening now in Palestine, and that the creation of the state of Israel is based on it, and is used as a justification to the Israeli attrocities. In this, there is no disrepect, but rather it raises the awareness of what is happening now, as to an event which happened over 60 years ago.

I never understood this. Why can't you draw attention to legitimate Israeli war crimes without belittling something else? These cartoons are nothing short of vulgar, crude, and disrespectful, and I can't take any attempts to justify them seriously. The human heart has the capacity to feel sympathy for the millions who died in the holocaust and still denounce and reject other crimes against humanity. They do not have to cancel each other out.

I have not read up on the event, so I really can't comment except to say

errrrrrrrrr DAVID DUKE WAS INVITED?!

Most of the people at the conference are imbeciles, so it makes sense that they feel it is necessary to deny historical facts in order to argue for a cause that is LEGITIMATE without sounding like you are unhinged.

Why was this "conference" necessary? All they do is complain incessantly about the West bringing the Holocaust into everything and then they hold a conference denying the Holocaust..

Smooth

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  • Advanced Member

Even if the holocaust didn't happen on the same scale as that which is normally portrayed, there is a need for us to be respectful towards those people whose family members were killed by the Nazis.

(salam)

People should definitely be more sensitive towards the Jews who lost their lives under Hitler regime. And those who died under the holocaust were not Zionist or even Israeli. People should definitely be more respectful and stop with politicizing.

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786-92-110

People should definitely be more sensitive towards the Jews who lost their lives under Hitler regime. And those who died under the holocaust were not Zionist or even Israeli. People should definitely be more respectful and stop with politicizing

For what Reason ???!!! I don't know! when it is for the defense of zionist There is Zareen , when it comes to attack the iranbian regime , Zareen is always there !!! where do you put the 98 % of Genocided indios ??? where do you put the 400 Million African Negros ???!!! but for Hitler and some Jews... Zareen is offended and sha says : DEFINITELY bla bla bla ... What ??? be respectfull to these murderers and criminals from the kazars AshkeNAZI "jews"??? 90 % of world jewish popoulation are ACH! NAZI !!!

To hell with the zionist Jews and their Nazis brethren , To Hell with the filthy Western White Scum as Well !!! today they are after Moussa Dadis camara of gunnea , Yesterday they were after Mugabe , Zareen was not shocked, rather...

What a pity for a Shia follower and moderator ???!!! ( I know you are eager to ban people opposing your brainwashed western standards, so ban me once for all sio that i will no more read your nonsenses...)

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I think the typical Iranian, including myself does believe in Holocaust

How many countries in the Middle East do you know that has Jews in parliament and serve as actual representatives for their communities?

But we disagree on the way that the "6 million" figure was standardized, when there was genuine dissent about the number of Jews killed. Next to the fact that so many more died that were not Jewish. We do not believe in emphasizing Jewish suffering but do accept the reality. We do not believe the holocaust was a reason for Zionists to commit a new holocaust in Palestine. This is unacceptable and it is much more disturbing how Iran is crucified for inviting David Duke (a former KKK member who does not hate Jews but is critical of the Zionist lobby) while there is not 1 Western government that will readily agree that there is a genocide in Gaza and a new Holocaust in Palestine. This is shocking and we are making the wrong threads as Muslims.

Edited by Rubaiyat
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The 6m figure may be an exageration, it may not be, but until you have evidence it is better not to make a fuss out of it. What you can do, and what Finkelstein does, is expose the way it has been exploited, especially with regard to the Zionist attrocities.

I don't agree with some of the ways it has been approached by Muslims, such as using it to contrast freedom of speech vis a vis the Prophet cartoons. There is no need to offend one group of people because of the actions of another.

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  • Advanced Member

what is wrong with the cartoons?!

Denying or discussing holocaust is not a crime, saying the number of killed people is less i not a crime

what is a crime is TRADING in the blood of the innocent people (jews, Gypsies, polish, unwanted people..etc ) who died in holocaust!

making profit from their blood is the greatest insult to their relatives and to humanity

using their miserable and horrific fate to justify or to hide actual crimes, is the most disrespectful!!!

ISRAEL is the #1 state that disrespect holocaust

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  • Advanced Member

The 6m figure may be an exageration, it may not be, but until you have evidence it is better not to make a fuss out of it. What you can do, and what Finkelstein does, is expose the way it has been exploited, especially with regard to the Zionist attrocities.

I don't agree with some of the ways it has been approached by Muslims, such as using it to contrast freedom of speech vis a vis the Prophet cartoons. There is no need to offend one group of people because of the actions of another.

Why aren't we allowed to go do research and collect evidence then?

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  • Veteran Member

Most of the cartoons portray the message of a "holocaust" happening now in Palestine, and that the creation of the state of Israel is based on it, and is used as a justification to the Israeli attrocities. In this, there is no disrepect, but rather it raises the awareness of what is happening now, as to an event which happened over 60 years ago.

If they wanted to make cartoons about the crimes of the zionist regime then they should have called them the "zionist cartoons" not the "holocaust cartoons".

This holocaust cartoon competition was organised as a response to the prophet Muhammed cartoons. In other words "you make fun of our prophet and we will make fun of your holocaust". If they wanted to make fun of anyone then they should have had a cartoon contest on the zionist leaders or the western leaders or some or other culprits including the artist of the Prophet cartoons. There was no need to upset the families of the people who were killed by the nazis.

This is shocking and we are making the wrong threads as Muslims.
Brother I am actually a supporter of the IRI and I also support the president.
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  • Veteran Member

If they wanted to make cartoons about the crimes of the zionist regime then they should have called them the "zionist cartoons" not the "holocaust cartoons".

This holocaust cartoon competition was organised as a response to the prophet Muhammed cartoons. In other words "you make fun of our prophet and we will make fun of your holocaust". If they wanted to make fun of anyone then they should have had a cartoon contest on the zionist leaders or the western leaders or some or other culprits including the artist of the Prophet cartoons. There was no need to upset the families of the people who were killed by the nazis.

Brother I am actually a supporter of the IRI and I also support the president.

Brother, the definition of holocaust is ''an act of mass destruction and loss of life.''

As you can see clearly from the cartoons, none of them are actually aimed at glorifying Hitler, nor mock the loss of jewih lives. Rather, they are raising awareness of a holocaust that is happening right now in Palestine.

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.

It would be informative to listen to Hassan Abbasi's lectures, or Rahimpour Azghadi, or even Hassan Nasrallah

Ahmadinejad's strategy is not directly to do with Holocaust

His aim is the following

U.S. and Europe sponsor propaganda television questioning Islamic Republic, the Islamic faith while portraying Iran as totalitarian, human rights abuser, tyrannical, 'mullahcracy', associating with 'the regime' (nazism and communism for selective retention), they (West) are in fact freedom loving

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Ahmadinejad questions Holocaust figures and the new Holocaust in Palestine and should actually be arrested, if he did not have diplomatic immunity.

In political science this is called a slow foundation for the delicate balance of terror. Delicate balance of Terror means you create an atmosphere in which your enemy would not think of attacking you or taking steps to escelate the situation or 'cold war' you are in by showing him the negative consequences of his move. The U.S. is attempting to psychologically attack Iran from every angle, militarily, religiously, psychologically. Only in recent years, through Press TV, assisting Hamas and Hezbollah, bringing Holocaust to the table, it is engaged in what is a necessary psychological warfare to cripple the myth that U.S. has capabilities to overthrow Iran's government, showing to the Americans that if they did attack, all of their methodology has no basis like in Iraq, while at the same time shatter their image of freedom.

This is not the shallow box you have thought is 'denial of holocaust', this is a much bigger picture you have refused to look at. What you are basically doing, is falling for their 'promoted interpretation', that Ahmadinejad is irrational and stupid and has denied the holocaust. When in fact Ahmadinejad requires you to understand a whole other dimension, you are clinging on to American propaganda and what they want you to think of this man. THEY KNOW the point Ahmadinejad made and is trying to bring forward to the world public during UN speeches etc.: YOU don't and they try their best for you to retain this basic idea.

Edited by Rubaiyat
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  • Advanced Member

Is there no calumny, no slander against the President, Mr. Ahmadinejad, that will not be entertained on this forum?

Would God so grace America with a man of that caliber of leadership, that quality of decency and truth and honor.

Whether calling him a Jew, or other slurs and smears, the enemies of IRI cannot help but expose themselves to those who are aware.

The Holocaust is the sole reason that the West, and much of the rest of the world, give a pass to the Jews when they attack the Lebanon, when the conduct their pogroms in Gaza. When they machine-gunned the statue of the Virgin Mary at the Holy Family church in Bethlehem in 2002, no Westerners complained, none were outraged, such is the hold of the Holocaust upon them.

Why are scholars, Phds who research this topic put in fortress like prisons?

Why did judges in both Canada and Australia tell the researchers that, "TRUTH IS NO DEFENSE"

How Censorship Works in a 'Free Market' Economy

Thursday, October 22, 2009

New York lawmaker Dov Hikind has used a familiar tool of intimidation of the "free market" for the purpose of obstructing an heretical author.

Zionist Hikind has ordered American Express credit card company to stop historian David Irving's readers from paying for his books with American Express. The company has complied with Hikind's command!

Finally, should the President have embarrassed his invited guest? Should the President have acted without honor and manners? The President observes all manner of decorum for he realizes he not only represents the great and noble people of Iran, but also, in the eyes of the West, he represents Islam also. So in the manner of a man of humility, of decency, and of honor he conducts himself as I would wish all of us would. The President tells the TRUTH, sadly the truth is not a defense, even in the courts.

Perhaps one can point out where Dr Duke should be condemned for his remarks from 2007:

I can stand up and say to anyone that I am consistent, fair, and moral. That my position is decent and just.

All of us need to be able to say that.

All of us need to get the cobwebs of Jewish hypocrisy out of our skulls.

When I was in Iran, I noticed a few things. One, the people are very God fearing people. The sanctity of marriage is inviolate. No abortion, almost no drugs, no strip bars, no porn on TV or in the shops, not even any alcohol in the swankiest hotels. A society even more restrictive in some way than I would want for Europe where we can make the choice of whether we want a beer or glass of wine if we want.

While I was there I remarked to Mike Piper about the American evangelicals and how they have been instructed by anti-Christian Jews to hate immoral Iran, when the Islamic Republic has the very morals and laws they advocate but don't live. While the average Iranian girl is chaste until marriage, the average American daughter is have having casual oral sex when she is 15, and at least a full quarter have venereal disease by the time they can vote.

Give me a break.

I tell you something else for those who need to know.

I went to Bahrain a few years ago and spoke to crowds where at least half the audience was blacker than the average American Negro. I told them I was opposed to Israel but that I wanted to preserve my European heritage just as they wanted to preserve their Muslim heritage. They cheered.

Some more info for you.

Bahrain has no oil or natural gas to speak of, and as I said it is at least half African descent. But they have almost no crime, no rape, a decent school system, more democracy than we have, one elected representative for every 1000 Bahranians. It's one of the safest societies in the world.

I asked myself why. Then I realized. It is because of their Muslim Faith. Their religion strongly reinforces their morality. They are not told they can do any evil act and then get a miraculous death bed ticket to paradise. Their religion judges them by what they do in toto with their life, if they do evil they pay for it period.

Their sexual hormones are kept in check by complete separation of the sexes. After a very young age, girls are schooled with girls, boys with boys. Even the coffee houses are sexually segregated. There are few drugs and little alcohol to lower the moral guard of women or men. The women are covered, even at the beach.

Finally, they pray to Allah six times a day which reinforces their morality. I have always known that crime rates increase with certain racial groups, and I finally realized why Bahrain did not fit the pattern. It is because of the far more rigid religious system of Islam in the country. And by the way the family is incredibly intact in Bahrain, and illegitimacy is almost entirely from the guest workers they have from other nations.

All these things are factual, I talked with ministers in the country about all these issues and I saw the statistics, including from a British professor who helped compile the data for a book he was working on.

So, I would suggest that Islam seems suited for these people in their own nations, does not that afford a reason why it is so popular among them!

I believe a lot of the Muslim crime rate in Europe is attributable to the fact that they no longer live under a Muslim society, but a Hollywood, Jewish morality.

The Behistun Inscription:

Beware the People of the Lie.

Edited by Fool4God
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Guest Zahratul_Islam

Brother, the definition of holocaust is ''an act of mass destruction and loss of life.''

As you can see clearly from the cartoons, none of them are actually aimed at glorifying Hitler, nor mock the loss of jewih lives. Rather, they are raising awareness of a holocaust that is happening right now in Palestine.

They are raising awareness by mocking the loss of jewish lives..

Did you SEE the cartoons?

.

It would be informative to listen to Hassan Abbasi's lectures, or Rahimpour Azghadi, or even Hassan Nasrallah

Ahmadinejad's strategy is not directly to do with Holocaust

His aim is the following

U.S. and Europe sponsor propaganda television questioning Islamic Republic, the Islamic faith while portraying Iran as totalitarian, human rights abuser, tyrannical, 'mullahcracy', associating with 'the regime' (nazism and communism for selective retention), they (West) are in fact freedom loving

|

|

|

|

\/

Ahmadinejad questions Holocaust figures and the new Holocaust in Palestine and should actually be arrested, if he did not have diplomatic immunity.

In political science this is called a slow foundation for the delicate balance of terror. Delicate balance of Terror means you create an atmosphere in which your enemy would not think of attacking you or taking steps to escelate the situation or 'cold war' you are in by showing him the negative consequences of his move. The U.S. is attempting to psychologically attack Iran from every angle, militarily, religiously, psychologically. Only in recent years, through Press TV, assisting Hamas and Hezbollah, bringing Holocaust to the table, it is engaged in what is a necessary psychological warfare to cripple the myth that U.S. has capabilities to overthrow Iran's government, showing to the Americans that if they did attack, all of their methodology has no basis like in Iraq, while at the same time shatter their image of freedom.

This is not the shallow box you have thought is 'denial of holocaust', this is a much bigger picture you have refused to look at. What you are basically doing, is falling for their 'promoted interpretation', that Ahmadinejad is irrational and stupid and has denied the holocaust. When in fact Ahmadinejad requires you to understand a whole other dimension, you are clinging on to American propaganda and what they want you to think of this man. THEY KNOW the point Ahmadinejad made and is trying to bring forward to the world public during UN speeches etc.: YOU don't and they try their best for you to retain this basic idea.

I don't think you are giving people nearly as much credit as they deserve. No one here is under any illusions about the United States foreign policy strategy in Iran, or the bias of American news media. I watched the interviews and I can understand that his whole point was "it happened in Europe, what do the Palestinian's have to do with anything," and trust me when I say that his point was not difficult to grasp, nor did he say anything profound that required a deep insight into "another dimension." It was extremely simplistic, to the point, and legitimate.. He seems, like Bush, to have an issue articulating his points/avoiding stupid remarks.

I am tired of people on both sides of this issue acting as though they have absolute knowledge on this while at the same time demonstrated a complete lack of insight on foreign policy and the realities of international relations. To be perfectly blunt, you are just as brainwashed as the neocons who watch Fox news. Your world views, biases and baggage make you just as close minded and prone to labeling people who question something you accept as a fundamental reality.

Is there no calumny, no slander against the President, Mr. Ahmadinejad, that will not be entertained on this forum?

Would God so grace America with a man of that caliber of leadership, that quality of decency and truth and honor.

Whether calling him a Jew, or other slurs and smears, the enemies of IRI cannot help but expose themselves to those who are aware.

How is calling him a Jew a slur or a smear?

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I am tired of people on both sides of this issue acting as though they have absolute knowledge on this while at the same time demonstrated a complete lack of insight on foreign policy and the realities of international relations. To be perfectly blunt, you are just as brainwashed as the neocons who watch Fox news. Your world views, biases and baggage make you just as close minded and prone to labeling people who question something you accept as a fundamental reality.

That's very sad that people would say such accusations on the other. I disagree completely and I stand with my brother on this.

Likewise, I am tired of people who claim that all sides around them are extreme, and they themselves are on a self-declared "moderate" path, where they simply sit on the fence and pretend they are the enlightened ones. We should never say this about anyone specifically, that's within all our own hearts to work out if we fall victim to this or not. But I think it is certainly a problem, people who think they can play all sides of the story and have to accept premises and points from sides they don't usually associate with simply to look balanced and moderate.

Edited by Mahdaviat
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  • Veteran Member
These cartoons are nothing short of vulgar, crude, and disrespectful, and I can't take any attempts to justify them seriously.

Ummm... have you even seen the cartoons?

The conference was called the "Holocaust cartoon contest," but the cartoons typically dealt with the issues in Occupied Palestine. And it had entries from all over the world (I believe the winner was a Brasilian man).

If I can find the pictures I will post them here. But if anyone says that the cartoons belittle the Nazis' killing of Jews then they haven't really seen them.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

That's very sad that people would say such accusations on the other. I disagree completely and I stand with my brother on this.

Likewise, I am tired of people who claim that all sides around them are extreme, and they themselves are on a self-declared "moderate" path, where they simply sit on the fence and pretend they are the enlightened ones. We should never say this about anyone specifically, that's within all our own hearts to work out if we fall victim to this or not. But I think it is certainly a problem, people who think they can play all sides of the story and have to accept premises and points from sides they don't usually associate with simply to look balanced and moderate.

So I cannot be dismissive about someone's world view, but you can brush mine off by dismissing me as someone who is "moderate" and feels "enlightened?"

Don't pretend you find the act labeling itself unfortunate, you just find it sad when it does not parallel your own views. You are happy to label anyone who dissents or questions as an "arrogant, enlightened moderate." It is perfectly acceptable for you to agree with your brother, but I reserve the right to find both your opinions questionable.

I am not sitting on the "fence." It is called being "thoughtful" about issues and I refuse to apologize for this or justify my behavior to someone whose answer always seems to be "oh they are just trying to appear balanced!! The audaicty!!"

Ummm... have you even seen the cartoons?

The conference was called the "Holocaust cartoon contest," but the cartoons typically dealt with the issues in Occupied Palestine. And it had entries from all over the world (I believe the winner was a Brasilian man).

If I can find the pictures I will post them here. But if anyone says that the cartoons belittle the Nazis' killing of Jews then they haven't really seen them.

Yes, there was a link to the cartoons above. Click on it. If that is not offensive I do not know what is..

Sure some of those cartoons made references to Palestine, but many of them did so by mocking the loss of Jewish lives. Since Israel completely lacks adherence to international laws/humanitarian issues, it is unnecessary to print cartoons so distasteful in order to prove a point that is legitimate without a complete lack of respect and tact.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
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So I cannot be dismissive about someone's world view, but you can brush mine off by dismissing me as someone who is "moderate" and feels "enlightened?"

Don't pretend you find the act labeling itself unfortunate, you just find it sad when it does not parallel your own views. You are happy to label anyone who dissents or questions as an "arrogant, enlightened moderate." It is perfectly acceptable for you to agree with your brother, but I reserve the right to find both your opinions questionable.

I am not sitting on the "fence." It is called being "thoughtful" about issues and I refuse to apologize for this or justify my behavior to someone whose answer always seems to be "oh they are just trying to appear balanced!! The audaicty!!"

Whoa whoa whoa.

I went out of my way to say this:

Likewise, I am tired of people who claim that all sides around them are extreme, and they themselves are on a self-declared "moderate" path, where they simply sit on the fence and pretend they are the enlightened ones. We should never say this about anyone specifically, that's within all our own hearts to work out if we fall victim to this or not. But I think it is certainly a problem, people who think they can play all sides of the story and have to accept premises and points from sides they don't usually associate with simply to look balanced and moderate.

And also, I haven't even given a perspective or said anything else in this thread at all. How exactly do you describe my "worldview"? I'm curious.

Edited by Mahdaviat
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Guest Zahratul_Islam

Whoa whoa whoa.

I went out of my way to say this:

And also, I haven't even given a perspective or said anything else in this thread at all that's it. How exactly do you describe me "worldview"?

You quoted my post and made the statement. Are you suggesting it was about someone else? I did not reference your "world view," I directed my remarks at the very specific concerns you posted. Please, spare me the fake outrage, we are both old enough to be discuss this without playing petty games.

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You quoted my post and made the statement. Are you suggesting it was about someone else? I did not reference your "world view," I directed my remarks at the very specific concerns you posted. Please, spare me the fake outrage, we are both old enough to be discuss this without playing petty games.

All right sister.

I was not referring to any individuals, I was simply talking in general principles. I made that extremely clear. I was simply defending my brother from being labeled as "brainwashed", which was what my duty was.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

All right sister.

I was not referring to any individuals, I was simply talking in general principles. I made that extremely clear. I was simply defending my brother from being labeled as "brainwashed", which was what my duty was.

It is interesting that you did not feel the need to defend the people HE labeled, which was the entire purpose of my reply.

And that, my well-intentioned friend, is how I got a glimpse into your world view :angel:

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It is interesting that you did not feel the need to defend the people HE labeled, which was the entire purpose of my reply.

He didn't label anybody, he simply was speaking in terms of general principles and generically talking about people who think in that manner.

And that, my well-intentioned friend, is how I got a glimpse into your world view :angel:

I'm confused.

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You would be

Try rereading this thread before jumping to someone's defense.

I'm not here to cause any trouble. I have read the thread and have made conclusions based on the best of my ability. I stand by everything I have said and I support my brother 100%.

I apologize greatly to you if I said or implied anything negative. Likewise I apologize to the OP for derailing the thread. But I believe my points were sound and I will stand by them.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

I'm not here to cause any trouble. I have read the thread and have made conclusions based on the best of my ability. I stand by everything I have said and I support my brother 100%.

I apologize greatly to you if I said or implied anything negative. Likewise I apologize to the OP for derailing the thread. But I believe my points were sound and I will stand by them.

Again, you have every right to support your brother and have your opinions. I took offense to what you said and I responded accordingly, because your statement is not something new or surprising and it does not take a lot of analysis to see what you were implying.

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